Speaker 1: Welcome to Head of Money. I'm Joel and I am
Speaker 1: Matt and today, of course it's Monday. We're answering your
Speaker 1: listener questions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, buddy, I had to say my name real clearly there,
Speaker 2: just to make sure everyone knew knew my name. I
Speaker 2: don't want anybody to forget about me, Joel. But we've
Speaker 2: got do you worry about that? We've got a listener
Speaker 2: question Monday episode lined up for folks. We've got a
Speaker 2: question from a newlywed couple. They've got a money question,
Speaker 2: specifically about combining their finances. Another listener is asking about
Speaker 2: dental insurance, wanted to know whether or not it's worth it.
Speaker 2: And another listener she has a less than ideal insurance product,
Speaker 2: and we're gonna talk about that. Plus we're gonna get
Speaker 2: to two additional questions.
Speaker 1: I feel like two of these questions are right in
Speaker 1: your wheelhouse because people always ask you questions about marriage
Speaker 1: and dental work, you know, because it's it's two things.
Speaker 2: You've got a lot of expertise on where'd you get
Speaker 2: yourdental work? So you no, oh man, this is all
Speaker 2: natural right here. So literally, I think we've even talked
Speaker 2: about this before sitting at a particular light nearish our house.
Speaker 2: There's this giant billboard and it's a billboard for I
Speaker 2: don't think it's a dentist. It's somebody that does Veneers.
Speaker 2: And they've got the most gnarly before and after pictures
Speaker 2: of these guys that I swear must have done meth
Speaker 2: or something like that. But their teeth. I hear that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it looks I mean, their teeth look terrible. And then
Speaker 2: it's like twenty four hours later and it's a picture
Speaker 2: of this handsome dude and it's literally the exact same dude.
Speaker 2: It's crazy. The mirror dentistry. Yeah, what new teeth do?
Speaker 2: And the girls are like, is that really the same guy?
Speaker 2: I'm like, sweetie, I think it is. That's what Veneers do. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's impressed. Because of that, I feel like we talk
Speaker 2: about dental work more than the average bear, more than
Speaker 2: the average family at home. But yeah, we are gonna
Speaker 2: get to those question.
Speaker 1: And just the heads up to listeners if you missed
Speaker 1: our announcement last week, we're taking listener questions every single
Speaker 1: Monday from here on out, and so if you have
Speaker 1: a money question, holler at us. You can always submit
Speaker 1: one at out how toomoney dot com, slash ask, or
Speaker 1: just email us with your voice memo. But we're gonna
Speaker 1: be taking a lot more double the listener questions we used,
Speaker 1: like a higher chance of your question getting answered. Yes,
Speaker 1: So please submit one. But Matt, real quick, I just
Speaker 1: want to mention my my buddy, Tim, our mutual buddy
Speaker 1: Tim He so I know that Tim. He did he
Speaker 1: booked a flight via Delta. And the thing about booking
Speaker 1: with the major airlines and not booking with one of
Speaker 1: the discounters, or specifically Southwest, is that there are change
Speaker 1: fees involved when you are, you know, looking to switch
Speaker 1: up your dates or your times or something like that,
Speaker 1: and often they're pretty inflexible. Uh, Southwest is great for
Speaker 1: that because.
Speaker 2: They can be and you know they've got that they've
Speaker 2: got a premium product, so like, we don't have to
Speaker 2: cave to your request, your demands.
Speaker 1: I guess that's what they think, at least right I
Speaker 1: personally impartial to Southwest, but he'd called anyway and he said, listen,
Speaker 1: I know this is like not your policy, but could
Speaker 1: you help a guy out?
Speaker 2: And old delataly, well.
Speaker 1: I mean, Delta probably doesn't want me revealing this, but
Speaker 1: Delta said, okay, sure, yeah, well yeah, they don't want
Speaker 1: other people doing this. But this is one of those
Speaker 1: things where we always talk about asking for a discount
Speaker 1: or asking for some help in one way or another,
Speaker 1: and lots of times a business like that is gonna
Speaker 1: be like no way. But if you ask nicely and
Speaker 1: if you ask the right person, you really might get help.
Speaker 1: You might get your flight changed without having to pay
Speaker 1: a fee. Like there are all sorts of ways that
Speaker 1: you can ask to be refunded for something or to
Speaker 1: change something about a service that you've received, and the
Speaker 1: worst they can do is say no. The worst that
Speaker 1: happens is that the policy as stated is what you
Speaker 1: is what you have to like abide by.
Speaker 2: So that's right.
Speaker 1: Just kudos to Tim for doing the right thing asking yeah,
Speaker 1: and encouragements everyone else out there listening, like, ask for
Speaker 1: the discount.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It gets to show that even though you know
Speaker 2: it's like, well, I know what the rules are, like
Speaker 2: they're going to say no, but you don't know what
Speaker 2: they just announced earlier that week, like what HR or whoever,
Speaker 2: like the performance folks, what they send out and what
Speaker 2: they're willing to make concessions on giving the industry, given
Speaker 2: what's going on, giving internal changes that might be have
Speaker 2: might be happening given what their earnings are that quarter
Speaker 2: where you're like, Okay, we got to turn things around.
Speaker 2: We're going to start making some concessions.
Speaker 1: Maybe like demands lower or actually they want to switch
Speaker 1: to you've heard is less packed, and so we want
Speaker 1: him to be on this other earlier flight. So we'll
Speaker 1: do it because it helps us out. You never know exactly.
Speaker 2: I love it. Yeah, it does not hurt to ask Joel.
Speaker 2: Let's introduce the beer. Are you ready for a big
Speaker 2: one here on this Monday always? This is a yeah,
Speaker 2: this is a bigger beer. This is Angel of Darkness
Speaker 2: by Wicked Weed. And what's crazy you can tell that
Speaker 2: this is Wicked Weed from a couple of years ago
Speaker 2: because it's like the old label because you know, they
Speaker 2: did a rebrand.
Speaker 1: That's a great thing about a good sour is sometimes
Speaker 1: it tastes better a few years left in the bottle.
Speaker 1: So we'll give our thoughts on this one at the
Speaker 1: end of the episode.
Speaker 2: It smells great.
Speaker 1: But Matt, let's get to the topic of hand. We're
Speaker 1: answering listener questions on this episode and let's get to
Speaker 1: the first one. This one is about your Pearly Whites.
Speaker 3: Hi'm Matt and Joel. This is Phil from Annapolis. I
Speaker 3: wanted to get your opinion on dental insurance. I know
Speaker 3: you've mentioned other financial instruments in the past, such as
Speaker 3: home warranties and so forth, and episode number seven hundred,
Speaker 3: I thought that you might have a unique take on
Speaker 3: dental insurance. From what I understand, most dental insurance does
Speaker 3: have a cap as what they pay out, and also
Speaker 3: there seems to be a fifty dollars deductible pretty frequently.
Speaker 3: So anyway, I welcome your input and thank you very much.
Speaker 1: I feel like Phil needs to take the mat route,
Speaker 1: which is not only avoiding dental insurance, but avoiding dental work.
Speaker 2: Just it has been ten years. Well, so I got
Speaker 2: my teeth checked out last was it last year? Is
Speaker 2: right before we moved, and it had been ten years
Speaker 2: before I had previously seen the seen the dentists. Well,
Speaker 2: your philosophy has always been today broke my teeth weren't broke.
Speaker 2: I mean, it depends on why do I need one? Hey,
Speaker 2: it's true, but it is a personal thing. Right, I'm
Speaker 2: lucky enough to have healthy teeth, healthy gums when I
Speaker 2: went last year, no Cavity's baby do So okay, let
Speaker 2: me throw let me.
Speaker 1: Some people are naturally predisposed to have clean mouth, I guess,
Speaker 1: and you're one of them.
Speaker 2: So here's the thing I might be assuming that all
Speaker 2: of our family members also have the same teeth as
Speaker 2: I do. So this is where the real fill I
Speaker 2: probably will get to your will answer your question here
Speaker 2: in a second. But Joel, so I haven't take We
Speaker 2: haven't taken any of the kids in to get their
Speaker 2: teeth checked. And our oldest is ten, she has not
Speaker 2: yet been into the dentist. Obviously, we've got younger kids
Speaker 2: as well, And so that's the potential frugal or cheap
Speaker 2: where I might wear Kate and I. It's both of
Speaker 2: us where we might be going a little cheap because
Speaker 2: we haven't taken them into the dentist. But it's also
Speaker 2: because in the state of Georgia, you need a certain
Speaker 2: form filled out in order for them to go to
Speaker 2: the public school. It's the Georgia Department of Health Form
Speaker 2: thirty three hundred. I know it because it's always kind
Speaker 2: of a battle to get your pediatrician to sign it,
Speaker 2: but they are authorized. They can sign off and say, oh, yep,
Speaker 2: I looked at their teeth.
Speaker 1: They're good, and I figure's so authorized to roll their
Speaker 1: eyes when you ask them to do it. They're like,
Speaker 1: just take your kid to the dentists.
Speaker 2: But I figure, if there's something bad enough that a ptry,
Speaker 2: your family.
Speaker 1: Doctor will be able to catch it. Sure, but at
Speaker 1: some point I do know there's.
Speaker 2: Something really wrong.
Speaker 1: Hopefully your patric shop like, dude, come on exactly and
Speaker 1: speak to you forthrightly. But at some point, yes, I
Speaker 1: do know.
Speaker 2: Everybody, don't send in the hate, noil I we will
Speaker 2: take our kids to the dentist, but it's a thing
Speaker 2: in our household. Literally, Kate Man, this is long winded.
Speaker 2: Last point. Did did I have I shared that Kate
Speaker 2: got me dental tools for Christmas last year?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: Did I have ever even told you this?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: I didn't know that. It was like a stocking stuffer.
Speaker 2: It was like a joke, but literally like the little
Speaker 2: pick with like little scraper she got me a little
Speaker 2: like it was a pack that you could buy of
Speaker 2: dental tools. And I'm like, babe, you're just you're taking
Speaker 2: things a little too far here, because I'm not going
Speaker 2: to like poke my up myself in the gun, you know,
Speaker 2: like that's like the painful part. Let me reinforce getting
Speaker 2: your Partically, anything you hear on this podcast should not
Speaker 2: be done for batim. You should listen to the advice
Speaker 2: of a trusted medical professional. And I have not used
Speaker 2: these tools. I'm just saying it, Okay, I think it
Speaker 2: was part joke, part he actually might want to give
Speaker 2: us a shot. So let's get it. Let's get to
Speaker 2: Phil's question.
Speaker 1: Sorry, Phil, let's get to it and specifically talk about
Speaker 1: dental insurance and our thoughts on it. Monetarily, we won't
Speaker 1: let insurance that's not dental care. Lack of desire to
Speaker 1: go to the dentist impact our advice here.
Speaker 2: I don't mind it, actually, I don't. Yeah, like when
Speaker 2: I go into the dentists, it's actually I think I
Speaker 2: almost view it like you getting a massage where somebody
Speaker 2: is working on me making so weird, healthier and better.
Speaker 2: You're the only person who thinks that. I think. Do
Speaker 2: you feel that way when you get it to get
Speaker 2: your cartooned up? Like I feel so good after getting
Speaker 2: my car tune decks? I'm just like, oh man, this
Speaker 2: thing is perfect, and I'm glad I did it, But
Speaker 2: in the moment, I'm like, this is painful from not
Speaker 2: terribly painful.
Speaker 1: My teeth are frying too. But uh, okay, let's get
Speaker 1: to Phil's question. And first the question is like, how
Speaker 1: are you getting this dental insurance policy?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: That's true because if it's subsidized through your employer, it's
Speaker 1: likely still worth it because you're paying a fraction of
Speaker 1: what it actually costs to have that insurance. But if
Speaker 1: you're buying it as an individual, it's it's not nearly
Speaker 1: as important as you as you think. From specifically, from
Speaker 1: the financial perspective, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't go
Speaker 1: see the dentists, but it means that you're you might
Speaker 1: not need the insurance, you might not come ahead having
Speaker 1: that insurance. And so, like all insurance policies, the specifics matter.
Speaker 1: Health insurance is a no brainer for most people, and
Speaker 1: not because it allows you to get cheaper prescription drugs
Speaker 1: or you know, doctor's visits with a cope. We should
Speaker 1: do away with cope is in my estimation, I don't
Speaker 1: think it's a good part of the insurance system. But
Speaker 1: the whole reason to have medical insurance is because how
Speaker 1: you're going to be covered if something catastrophic were to happen.
Speaker 1: The annual out of pocket limit is like the best
Speaker 1: benefit you have. That's the best part of health insurance.
Speaker 1: Knowing that you're not on the hook beyond a certain amount. Yes,
Speaker 1: you get the worst, most devastating diagnosis, a life threatening
Speaker 1: disease or injury, and you know the hospital bills could
Speaker 1: rack up, and saying guess what, I'm capped at ten
Speaker 1: K or twelve K out of pocket for my family whatever.
Speaker 1: That annual out of pocket max is your saving grace.
Speaker 1: It's not the wellnesses or checkups that allow you to
Speaker 1: come out ahead, because cash payers actually often do pretty
Speaker 1: well for themselves pricing wise. So I would say this, Phil,
Speaker 1: I would say, don't be afraid to ask your dentist
Speaker 1: office for discounts for paying in full when you get
Speaker 1: the procedure done.
Speaker 2: Be like old tim Yeah, never hears it.
Speaker 1: Ask unless you have this like massively discounted dental insurance
Speaker 1: policy through your work, which in case, like I said,
Speaker 1: it might make sense, but if you're looking at buying
Speaker 1: one on your own on the open market, it might
Speaker 1: make sense instead to deal directly with your dentist for
Speaker 1: the work you need to get done.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I like that direct to patient model too. And
Speaker 2: is it the concierge medical services that are starting to
Speaker 2: crop up? But yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: The thing that makes health insurance so crucial like that
Speaker 2: is the same thing that makes dental insurance far less
Speaker 2: necessary because most people are just using their dental insurance
Speaker 2: to lower the cost of their routine visits. Right to
Speaker 2: get a free cleaning except for your paying for the
Speaker 2: premiums you know, throughout the year. It's like a credit.
Speaker 2: You're like pre paying. It's like it's like you've joined
Speaker 2: some sort of dental club and you've all agreed to
Speaker 2: keep your teeth extra straight and white, right, something like that,
Speaker 2: which is fine, But I'm just saying there's something to
Speaker 2: be said for the British model where everyone's got crooked teeth.
Speaker 2: What's ConTroll with that? Come on? But so, yeah, if
Speaker 2: you're getting your teeth cleaned, you know your insurance it
Speaker 2: might cover the cost. Actually, there's there's basically like one
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty fifty model, right, so it's one hundred
Speaker 2: Like if you're going in for routine maintenance like just
Speaker 2: a cleaning, they typically cover one hundred percent of it.
Speaker 2: If you even have a cavity a lot of plans
Speaker 2: they only cover eighty percent of that. But if there's
Speaker 2: something even bigger, like something more catastrophic like a crown
Speaker 2: or something, they only cover fifty percent oftentimes of that procedure.
Speaker 2: So sometimes even less.
Speaker 1: Lot of times it's twenty And it really depends on
Speaker 1: the policy, which is why the details are moth exactly.
Speaker 1: But like I had something that where my Dennis was
Speaker 1: recommending that I get some sort of mouthguard, but it
Speaker 1: was no. The insurance company then said, and this was
Speaker 1: back when I had traditional health interants in my employer,
Speaker 1: they said, actually, this is orthodontic, and we only cover
Speaker 1: orthodontia stuff up until you're eighteen or twenty five. Everget
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm much older than that now, so
Speaker 1: you're not going to cover it.
Speaker 2: It's just a part of it. Like at the same
Speaker 2: mouthguard at like the sports score like the football players.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, so, and so I literally did buy one
Speaker 2: on Amazon and I can live that. What it was, Yeah,
Speaker 2: where you like take the measurements or you take the
Speaker 2: impression in your mouth. Yeah, okay, nice but it's one
Speaker 2: of those things where you don't know sometimes how your
Speaker 2: insurance is going to classify it, or what work you
Speaker 2: need to get done and what percentage is covered at.
Speaker 2: That's why it's important to dive into the details. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the key question to ask before you opt in to
Speaker 2: go out there and maybe get dental insurance if you're
Speaker 2: so inclinent, is what your premiums are going to be,
Speaker 2: and then what the policy covers. Because if let's just
Speaker 2: say a routine cleaning it costs hundred and fifty bucks,
Speaker 2: and then your plan, let's say it costs you three
Speaker 2: hundred dollars a year in premiums, and say you're only
Speaker 2: allowed you're only able to get cleaning done like once
Speaker 2: a year or something like that. Well, for you in
Speaker 2: this specific instance, the insurance, it probably doesn't make a
Speaker 2: whole lot of sense.
Speaker 1: Yes, And like Phil alluded to, Matt, dental coverage usually
Speaker 1: has an annual max payout and certain procedures have ridiculously
Speaker 1: high co insurance payments, and so dental insurance is a
Speaker 1: case where ditching it and opting to self insure really
Speaker 1: can make a lot more sense. So instead of paying
Speaker 1: for a portion of the work being done. Just pay
Speaker 1: the full price of the cleaning, the cavity fill, whatever
Speaker 1: it is. The premium money you've been able to save
Speaker 1: by canceling your insurance policy, funnel that into a savings
Speaker 1: account to pay for those procedures that you need done.
Speaker 1: Plus it allows you this added flexibility being able to
Speaker 1: shop around before you actually go in to see the doctor.
Speaker 1: But again, so much of the equation comes down to
Speaker 1: your own dental needs, the price and the coverage. So
Speaker 1: it's not like we're mass recommending everyone to ditch dental insurance,
Speaker 1: but it just really depends on the individual and depends
Speaker 1: on your own dental needs.
Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, Okay, So one interesting additional option if
Speaker 2: it's looking like you might need more significant dental work
Speaker 2: done is medical tourism, which sounds kind of crazy, but
Speaker 2: it's actually becoming more and more more popular.
Speaker 1: My preferred destination Antarctica. Yeah, the Polar Bears work.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's becoming more popular specifically because because it's becoming
Speaker 2: more affordable to go to another country to fly and
Speaker 2: pay for medical procedures, specifically dental care.
Speaker 1: In this case, oftentimes you're able to stay in a
Speaker 1: nice hotel on the beach kind of thing. And that's
Speaker 1: timber one way.
Speaker 2: Way nicer than just running an errand, and you know,
Speaker 2: like make a make a trip out of it. Sure,
Speaker 2: literally we've talked about was it with Marshall Allen. We
Speaker 2: talked about Molar City. We talked down to Mexico. Yeah,
Speaker 2: down in Mexico that people are crossing the border to
Speaker 2: get solid dental work done at a fraction of the
Speaker 2: price costa Rica. That's another top destination. But for you
Speaker 2: run the numbers because you know, even after paying for
Speaker 2: the airfare, paying for the hotel, not to mention if
Speaker 2: you're able to get it at a discount because you
Speaker 2: got points. But it might make sense to get on
Speaker 2: a plane get some dental work done abroad. And you
Speaker 2: definitely don't need dental insurance in order to do this
Speaker 2: in order to partake. It's the medical tourism. So we
Speaker 2: want you Phil to take care of this Jompers man.
Speaker 1: But figure a disclaimer here. Floss every day, brush it
Speaker 1: brush twice a day, maybe three times a day, like
Speaker 1: do those things you lost every day. That's the biggest
Speaker 1: kind of insurance. It's kind of like I'll get to
Speaker 1: that one stone. It's kind of like the cell phone case,
Speaker 1: like the case yourself.
Speaker 2: Preventative medicine is always is always the best.
Speaker 1: You don't need the expensive insurance coverage. If you can
Speaker 1: take a prevention is worth a pound of cure. And
Speaker 1: does that mean that your phone will never ever get
Speaker 1: a cracks screen. No, but you've done ninety percent of
Speaker 1: it for the cheapest possible price, and so that is
Speaker 1: that's the thing to do as long as you're If
Speaker 1: you're doing those main things every day and going to
Speaker 1: see it for ess often enough, I think you can
Speaker 1: ditch dental insurance. You don't need it, but run the numbers.
Speaker 1: Run the numbers, and I floss twice week, Okay, I
Speaker 1: should floss every day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been doing it more regularly because my daughter
Speaker 2: and I were like talking about it, UNTI. We're both
Speaker 2: kind of trying to well with kids. You want to
Speaker 2: instill the habit, but their teeth are their little mouths.
Speaker 2: But then their teeth are so far apart. They're like,
Speaker 2: why would you floss? I'm like, food gets in between
Speaker 2: your teeth and they're like, no, it doesn't. I'm like, what,
Speaker 2: show me your teeth open and I'm like, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: there's like, let me poke around with this fisher, but
Speaker 2: your mom got me. It's all it's all gappy in here.
Speaker 2: You don't have your grown up teeth yet. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: it's still get a instill some of those habits. On
Speaker 2: a related note, Kate just bought do you okay? Do
Speaker 2: y'all use string floss that you wrap around your fingers
Speaker 2: or do you use flossers? So they just like they
Speaker 2: make it so easy. They make it easy and fun.
Speaker 2: They do.
Speaker 1: I used to always talk a little more, but it
Speaker 1: makes it more likely that I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 2: You buy the bolt pack at Costco, which is what
Speaker 2: Kate did. Anyway, I'm a recent floss or convert. I'm
Speaker 2: a fan. There you go. Yeah, I'm doing it way
Speaker 2: more often because of that.
Speaker 1: Nice are We've got more questions to get to fill.
Speaker 1: I hope that helps.
Speaker 2: And talk about other body parts now yeah, yeah, well yeah,
Speaker 2: this is really going to we're going to dive down
Speaker 2: the medical rabbit hole in a big way.
Speaker 1: Well, we're going to talk about life insurance in a second.
Speaker 1: And that's like you know something you need if you die, well,
Speaker 1: but what kindy you need? And can you get too
Speaker 1: much or something that's too expensive. We'll talk about that
Speaker 1: and more right after this.
Speaker 2: All right, man, we are back from the break, and
Speaker 2: yes we will get to that question on life insurance.
Speaker 2: But first, let's here from a listener who has just
Speaker 2: recently gotten to money Gear number five.
Speaker 5: Hi, Matt and Joel, this is Renee from Pennsylvania. First time,
Speaker 5: long time. I love your down to earth advice and
Speaker 5: the fact that you're not trying to scam your listeners
Speaker 5: with time shares. My husband and I work full time.
Speaker 5: We don't have children, and we are not planning to
Speaker 5: have children. Our debts include our mortgage, zero percent interest
Speaker 5: loan for our new HVAC system, and just under twenty
Speaker 5: thousand dollars in school loans. We're finally at a point
Speaker 5: in our finances where we can think about investing aka
Speaker 5: money Gear five. We are both contributing to our employee
Speaker 5: match four oh one k's and employer hsas, with plans
Speaker 5: to increase those contributions each year. We have about sixty
Speaker 5: thousand dollars in a high heeled savings account, earning four
Speaker 5: point twenty five percent, and we continue to put money
Speaker 5: in that account almost every month. I would like to
Speaker 5: start investing some of that money, but I'm not sure
Speaker 5: where to start. When I look at CD rates, they
Speaker 5: don't seem that much better than our savings account unless
Speaker 5: I'm misunderstanding the rates. I'm interested in something like a
Speaker 5: practice money market account that has a positive social impact
Speaker 5: associated with it. What do you suggest for our next move? Thanks?
Speaker 1: Oh, Renee. Those timeshare scams are coming. We're going to
Speaker 1: start pitching those probably tomorrow, is my guest. It's been
Speaker 1: a minute since we've talked about time shares.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's false. I'm just joking.
Speaker 1: We're not going to add something we like. We'll never
Speaker 1: go down that rabbit hole. Because timeshares are the worst.
Speaker 1: People should avoid them. And it's it's very very rare
Speaker 1: that I hear someone Matt who's like, I love my
Speaker 1: time share. Most people are like, how do I get
Speaker 1: out of this about losing my shirt?
Speaker 2: Where? What's the little website where I can go to
Speaker 2: trade or sell? Because folks, yeah, they're tired of them.
Speaker 2: Sell it for literally pennies on the dollar because I'll
Speaker 2: pay nobody value to take over. Yes, the responsibilities, like
Speaker 2: nobody values timeshares on the secondary market, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: They're sold, not bought. That's right, Renee. But onto your question.
Speaker 2: It sounds like you've paid down a lot of debt,
Speaker 2: it sounds like you created a sizeable chunk of savings.
Speaker 2: Plus you are investing in some smart ways as well,
Speaker 2: so you're yeah, the question, you're asking what are the
Speaker 2: next steps? How can you invest some more? And we
Speaker 2: want you focused less on the like within the savings sphere,
Speaker 2: the different savings products here, and more on those actual
Speaker 2: investment accounts that you mentioned, because while it's a spectacular
Speaker 2: thing that savers that they're not getting collaborated anymore, except
Speaker 2: for the ones specifically with the big banks, they're still
Speaker 2: getting paid the absolute least that being sevent raised rates
Speaker 2: at all. No, Yeah, ramping up your savings even more,
Speaker 2: it's not going to necessarily get you where you're looking
Speaker 2: to go. It's a good idea for short term, short
Speaker 2: term goals that you might be saving up for in
Speaker 2: quote unquote investing for, but when it comes to long
Speaker 2: term investments, you need to change. Basically your mindset shift
Speaker 2: out is that you're looking at your money because you
Speaker 2: might feel more comfortable adding to your high yel savings account.
Speaker 2: Right's socking more money into a CD or that money
Speaker 2: market fund that you mentioned. But the way that you're
Speaker 2: actually going to make bigger strides and in order to
Speaker 2: grow your wealth is by embracing the risk but also
Speaker 2: the reward that comes with investing your money. I think
Speaker 2: it's gotten more volatility that you're going to expose yourself to,
Speaker 2: but that is how you're actually going to grow.
Speaker 1: It's become easier to be more comfortable being a saver
Speaker 1: because rates aren't complete crap, right, They're not all the
Speaker 1: way down to the dumps like they were for a
Speaker 1: decade plus, and so now it feels like, oh cool,
Speaker 1: I can make close to five percent on savings. So
Speaker 1: maybe I'll just be happy savings and I won't think
Speaker 1: about investing as much. But the truth is, over the years,
Speaker 1: over the decades, you're losing out on meaningful additional returns
Speaker 1: by priority tizing safes. And yes, you need liquid cash,
Speaker 1: you need savings, but you don't want to save so
Speaker 1: much that you're not investing as much as you could
Speaker 1: or should.
Speaker 2: And so I think one of the tricks is the
Speaker 2: fact that we most folks aren't necessarily comparing their expenses today, right,
Speaker 2: So we've all experienced inflation. Yeah, and we're not necessarily
Speaker 2: some folks are, which is great. But at the end
Speaker 2: of the year, when it comes to your savings account,
Speaker 2: you get a little statement and it tells you this
Speaker 2: is how much you earned this year. And you're going
Speaker 2: to say, oh, wow, that's so much more than last year.
Speaker 2: I'm earning so much money by investing my money in
Speaker 2: a high yo savings. But what they're not looking at
Speaker 2: is the itemized breakdown of how much they spent on groceries,
Speaker 2: for instance. And if you were automatically sent that, I
Speaker 2: think that would have an impact on how it is
Speaker 2: that you view the money that you're spending and the
Speaker 2: money that you're saving, not necessarily investing, you'd be like, oh, man,
Speaker 2: I need to out earn this inflation exactly, which is
Speaker 2: the main reason to invest in the first place. Right,
Speaker 2: That inflation is steadily eating away at our money, and
Speaker 2: so we need to invest to grow that money so
Speaker 2: that you know, we're not getting stung by inflation over time,
Speaker 2: that we're able to kind of mitigate that and actually
Speaker 2: outpace it.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: And so the thing is, I think Renee doesn't even
Speaker 1: necessarily need to open up a new account. You've got
Speaker 1: plenty of good ones already at your disposal. It sounds like,
Speaker 1: and I love that you already have plans to increase
Speaker 1: what you're putting into that four oh one K and
Speaker 1: that HSA, but it might make sense to ramp up
Speaker 1: contributions to those even sooner than maybe you thought, like
Speaker 1: we're all about liquid savings, But it's a good idea
Speaker 1: to see how many months of expenses that sixty thousand
Speaker 1: dollars you mentioned you had. How much would that cover?
Speaker 1: Like do you need that much or would forty thousand
Speaker 1: dollars suffice? Would that be enough? Like if that would
Speaker 1: be plenty to cover five or six months of expenses
Speaker 1: and your jobs feel steady, I would be funneling more
Speaker 1: of that cash into those investment accounts for the increased
Speaker 1: tax and wealth building benefits that you're.
Speaker 2: Going to receive. Yeah, I would say, as you're looking
Speaker 2: at the amount of money that you have to decide
Speaker 2: to make sure you have because you mentioned a zero
Speaker 2: percent loan that you've got on your HVAC, which I
Speaker 2: get it. Sometimes we're in situations where we don't have
Speaker 2: the money on hand. But it sounds like you have
Speaker 2: the money on hand, and maybe you chose to go
Speaker 2: with a zero percent HVAC loan because you're like, well,
Speaker 2: why not, you can hang on my money for longer.
Speaker 2: I just want to make sure that you have a
Speaker 2: plan to pay that off once that zero percent window closes, sure,
Speaker 2: because like, okay, so they're not really like quote unquote
Speaker 2: HVAC loans oftentimes, they're just personal loans, and personal loan
Speaker 2: rates very widely. Like it's so like anywhere from like
Speaker 2: seven percent all we up to thirty, like thirty five percent,
Speaker 2: and so they're counting on folks getting used to perhaps
Speaker 2: not paying that and then all of a sudden they
Speaker 2: roll out of that window and boom, if your credit
Speaker 2: is not so stellar, you're gonna be on that higher
Speaker 2: end of that unsecured loan and you're all of a
Speaker 2: sudden paying thirty percent on something that you didn't have
Speaker 2: a plan to pay off, and so renee.
Speaker 1: It's like those furniture commercials you see on TV and
Speaker 1: it's yeah, no payments, no interest until twenty thirty five,
Speaker 1: and it's like they're hoping that you're gonna forget commediately
Speaker 1: about when.
Speaker 2: They're gonna come calling. Yes, and then you owe a
Speaker 2: lot of money and exactly yes, But Renee, she seems organized,
Speaker 2: and I'm guessing they have a lump sum set aside
Speaker 2: that when the time comes, you're gonna blute pay that
Speaker 2: thing off. But yeah, just make sure if not, though,
Speaker 2: make sure that you do have a plan for them,
Speaker 2: and that you've got that much money set aside in
Speaker 2: addition to your emergency fund. But make sure you're taking
Speaker 2: that into account as well as student loans resuming as well,
Speaker 2: because it sounds like you've got a couple more twenty
Speaker 2: thousand in student loans that will be resuming. Yeah, So
Speaker 2: just a quick note on savings and making sure that
Speaker 2: you're not fully depleting those that you're looking out in
Speaker 2: the full picture. Yeah, And I guess I mentioned that
Speaker 2: Renee doesn't in all likelihood need another account. She doesn't
Speaker 2: need to add anything else to the mix. I think
Speaker 2: if she's just kind of getting closer to maxing out
Speaker 2: both those two accounts, so she's currently investing in she's
Speaker 2: a lot of the way there right, Like she is
Speaker 2: doing a lot more than most people can or do.
Speaker 2: But there is one other thing that's probably worth mentioning
Speaker 2: mentioning when it comes to crushing your retirement account goals
Speaker 2: more fully, and that is adding one additional account account
Speaker 2: to the mix and RENEE you and your husband you
Speaker 2: could likely consider and you probably should consider the roth IRA's.
Speaker 2: That would be like the trifecta essentially all that with
Speaker 2: the other two HSA four oh one k roth ira
Speaker 2: doing all above funneling and the maxing out the wroth
Speaker 2: IRA and the HSA those two together would be incredible
Speaker 2: and then getting at least a match on the four
Speaker 2: one K and then any additional dollar I would say
Speaker 2: should go into the four to one K. After those
Speaker 2: two are maxed.
Speaker 1: You can contribute up to sixty five hundred dollars annually
Speaker 1: each into those wroth iras. And if you're doing all
Speaker 1: the above, that would be a lot of investing, right
Speaker 1: which you might not be able to do all the above,
Speaker 1: or at least be able to do all the above
Speaker 1: this year, But even just opening the wrath investing a little,
Speaker 1: that would be a great start. And so we would say, yeah, again,
Speaker 1: saving money is important, but savings alone aren't going to
Speaker 1: fund retirement, So make sure you're not leaning too hard
Speaker 1: in that direction. Just because rates are higher and it
Speaker 1: feels a little more comfortable. It doesn't mean that you
Speaker 1: should rest on your laurels and just kind of allow
Speaker 1: your savings to accumulate and accumulate unless you have specific
Speaker 1: short term to medium term goals that you're saving for.
Speaker 1: If these are long term goals, we want you putting
Speaker 1: more aside in those retirement accounts.
Speaker 4: That's right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you asked specifically too, about putting your money
Speaker 2: with maybe a money mark fund that has like a
Speaker 2: social bent or something like that, and we would caution
Speaker 2: you against going with a bank or somebody that's paying
Speaker 2: you less than what it is that you can get
Speaker 2: competitively on the open market. You specifically asked about practice
Speaker 2: and they're actually at you know, we look them up.
Speaker 2: They're paying four point eight percent, which is pretty dang
Speaker 2: good that they're paying that out to customers, but also
Speaker 2: have a social benefit that they're providing providing the community, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and so and that's a question whether or not that
Speaker 2: is good. It's more of a question about whether or
Speaker 2: not she should be doing more savings and less investing
Speaker 2: exactly exactly. But as far as those medium term goals,
Speaker 2: if you are looking to move your money into to
Speaker 2: something like that, that's totally fine, I just want to
Speaker 2: see you necessarily getting like two to three percent at
Speaker 2: the expense of that they happen to be doing some
Speaker 2: quote unquote good when you don't, you may not necessarily
Speaker 2: know what good it is that they're providing for a community.
Speaker 2: It makes me think of like ESG Investing and even
Speaker 2: SMP like the rating agency, Like they just dropped ESG
Speaker 2: like the rating because it's like, what is does that
Speaker 2: even mean anymore to different companies because so many eye
Speaker 2: of the beholders and it's gotten pretty murky well on,
Speaker 2: and we've been covering that for a while in the show.
Speaker 2: It's not that we're against doing good or caring about this.
Speaker 2: Vironment do it separately from your savings and investing, and
Speaker 2: so for instance, like if they were only paying out
Speaker 2: like two percent, I would say, well, shoot, get with
Speaker 2: the high held savings us paying you five percent, but
Speaker 2: then take a portion of your money and donate it
Speaker 2: directly to the different causes that you believe and just
Speaker 2: keep them separate, specifically the good that you're able to
Speaker 2: provide the community in the world. It just helps things
Speaker 2: to remain a little more clear. Proper alignment, you know, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: all right, let's hear from our listener who has that
Speaker 2: less than ideal insurance product.
Speaker 6: Hey, Matt and Joel, this is Robin from northern Colorado.
Speaker 6: I have a question for you guys regarding whole life insurance.
Speaker 6: Back in the nineties, I was in the Marine Corps
Speaker 6: and started investing with an investment bank that caters largely
Speaker 6: to the military in general. It's a good company. However,
Speaker 6: I have learned that perhaps they did not always have
Speaker 6: my best interest in mind with regard to their near
Speaker 6: insistence on getting whole life insurance, which I ended up doing.
Speaker 6: My three children also have their own whole life insurance policies.
Speaker 6: In recent years, mainly from the good advice from my
Speaker 6: fiancee and also from reading some articles on your website.
Speaker 6: I am now convinced that whole life insurance is not
Speaker 6: all it's cracked up to be, and I probably would
Speaker 6: do better with a term life insurance policy for the
Speaker 6: remaining years that my children are dependent upon my income.
Speaker 6: My question is what should I do. I wonder what
Speaker 6: the tax or any other financial implications might be if
Speaker 6: I close out the policy. Should I invest what remaining
Speaker 6: cash I get back into some other investment vehicle? Or
Speaker 6: maybe put it towards a term policy instead. I appreciate
Speaker 6: your thoughts on this rather confusing financial matter that has
Speaker 6: bothered me for quite some time now. If you guys
Speaker 6: ever find yourself in the northern Colorado area, I'd love
Speaker 6: to recommend some of my favors breweries, and if the
Speaker 6: timing is right, you might even get to see some
Speaker 6: of my artwork on display at these breweries. I have
Speaker 6: a super cool side hustle painting art and recycle wood
Speaker 6: that features the Colorado flag.
Speaker 2: Thanks guys, Robin.
Speaker 1: First off, we dig the side hustle, the small business
Speaker 1: that you're starting right, And it's true that there are
Speaker 1: some good companies out there, by the way, that don't
Speaker 1: do a good job advising their customers as they're making
Speaker 1: big financial decisions. Even companies that we like don't necessarily
Speaker 1: do the due diligence, especially some of these financial companies,
Speaker 1: that they should do with their customers. My mom was
Speaker 1: thinking about rolling over a Wroth four oh one k
Speaker 1: recently into a roth Ira with Fidelity, and they were like, cool,
Speaker 1: let's do it. And they didn't really ask her any
Speaker 1: important questions, and they didn't notify her about the five
Speaker 1: year rule. It doesn't mean that Fidelity's not a great
Speaker 1: company with low fees, But man, that was a little
Speaker 1: disconcerting to hear that they didn't like ask those questions
Speaker 1: of her, right.
Speaker 2: Or she didn't get an email that said this is
Speaker 2: what you should expect. Yeah, got it?
Speaker 1: Yes, So once again, I think this reveals the need
Speaker 1: for more basic financial education in schools and maybe less
Speaker 1: complexity in the rules overall. But it's something that impacts
Speaker 1: all of us every single day of our lives, this
Speaker 1: money thing, right, We're dealing with it all the time,
Speaker 1: yet most of us we graduate learning nothing about it.
Speaker 1: And the truth is a lot of financial mistakes can
Speaker 1: be mitigated. But man, wouldn't it be nice if we
Speaker 1: work to prevent more of these financial issues from the
Speaker 1: get go. I think we owe it to generations of
Speaker 1: future Americans to help teach them what it looks like
Speaker 1: to handle personal finance as well, especially something like a
Speaker 1: life insurance policy that you're stuck with paying for decades
Speaker 1: down the road. You might not realize until a decade
Speaker 1: is gone and you're like, Wow, that's a decade of
Speaker 1: returns on money I could have instead invested that.
Speaker 2: I lost out on that's true. Yeah, And so the
Speaker 2: whole life policies that she has specifically on our kids, Robin,
Speaker 2: those are the absolute most unnecessary that you have. They're
Speaker 2: all kind of unnecessary. Not life insurance in Geril but
Speaker 2: whole life specifically. But the entire purpose of life insurance
Speaker 2: is to cover loss of income in the case of
Speaker 2: or untimely death. And so unless your kids, I think
Speaker 2: you said you have three of them, unless they earn
Speaker 2: you money, right, like if they're child stars like Mcallai Culkin, right,
Speaker 2: they're probably not contributing to the family finances. On More
Speaker 2: than likely they're actually a drain on them. They cost
Speaker 2: you money. Not to say that kids aren't worth it,
Speaker 2: but they're not bringing in. They're not carrying their own
Speaker 2: weight right when it comes to the financial situation. That's
Speaker 2: what I'm saying is that there is not even a
Speaker 2: need to have term life insurance on them at all,
Speaker 2: which is our absolute whole life on them. But any
Speaker 2: sort of life insurany life insurance, exactly, it's a cheaper
Speaker 2: kind zero life insurance that is the right amount for
Speaker 2: each one of your kiddos. If are you, I'd be
Speaker 2: getting rid of those policies as soon as possible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and some people will say, oh, but we need
Speaker 1: a policy on our kids to cover potential burial costs.
Speaker 1: That's a case for self insurance, not a case for
Speaker 1: life insurance, because that is not the purpose of life insurance.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so cancel those things to get those premiums
Speaker 1: back in your life every single month. And then when
Speaker 1: it comes to the whole life policy that you and
Speaker 1: your fiance you're soon to be husband have, well, whether
Speaker 1: or not you're gonna want to ditch those that depends
Speaker 1: on how long you've had those policies in place and
Speaker 1: what changes there may have been to your health in
Speaker 1: the meantime, Because on average, the premiums are ten x
Speaker 1: sometimes more than what a term policy would be. So
Speaker 1: in the case of term you might pay eighteen dollars
Speaker 1: a month, Well, for your whole life it might be
Speaker 1: two hundred dollars a month, But your age and your
Speaker 1: health factor into those premiums and what you're actually paying.
Speaker 1: So that's a pretty good rule of thumb, I would
Speaker 1: say when it comes to thinking about how much cheaper
Speaker 1: term insurance is likely to be. But like, let's say,
Speaker 1: for instance, you've been diagnosed to something that would impact
Speaker 1: rates on a future policy. You might be better off
Speaker 1: keeping your whole life policy intact because rates on that
Speaker 1: new policy, even a term one which comes with on
Speaker 1: average ten x less, will be affected. And again, if
Speaker 1: you've got this policy fifteen years ago, well, rates are
Speaker 1: going to go up just by factor of just by
Speaker 1: consequence of your age, So that's important to take into considerable.
Speaker 2: Well, so the flip side of the coin would be
Speaker 2: if you're actually in better health. For instance, it makes
Speaker 2: me think if you, like, say you smoked back when
Speaker 2: you got that policy, you could actually save drastically more
Speaker 2: money now by getting a new policy in addition to
Speaker 2: the fact that you're going to pay you know, ten
Speaker 2: times less for a term policy over that whole life policy.
Speaker 2: But also it's not only how long that you've had
Speaker 2: the policy, right, but it's also how much longer you're
Speaker 2: going to need that policy moving forward, how much longer
Speaker 2: that you'll have folks who are dependent on your income. So,
Speaker 2: for instance, let's say your kids are let's say your
Speaker 2: youngest kid is twelve years old, Well, that means there
Speaker 2: might be only like six years where they are solely
Speaker 2: dependent on your income, at which point you could potentially
Speaker 2: cancel if you wanted to, Like, you could potentially be
Speaker 2: without life insurance altogether because you don't have anybody who
Speaker 2: is dependent on that income. If you're your partner, maybe
Speaker 2: they're not necessarily in a position where they need your income. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it might be certainly the icing on top. Certainly life
Speaker 2: would look a whole lot different where you did not
Speaker 2: be there, But it may not be necessary.
Speaker 1: Especially if your savings and your investments are robust. You
Speaker 1: might say, oh, in six years time, based on the
Speaker 1: out we're talking a size often, sure, baby, we don't
Speaker 1: need that policy anymore.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Kind of goes back to the whole dental thing,
Speaker 2: which is why we recommend term in the first place,
Speaker 2: because usually covering a specific period of time where kids
Speaker 2: are under the roof, for where your spouse is going
Speaker 2: to need that, and hopefully hopefully over that twenty or
Speaker 2: thirty year term policy you have built financial independence, beef
Speaker 2: up your nest day in the meantime to be set. Yes,
Speaker 2: and then you don't need.
Speaker 1: The life insurance anymore because it covered the period of
Speaker 1: time where you weren't financially in and then now you are.
Speaker 2: The designated period of time exactly and you also so
Speaker 2: you mentioned the tax implications as well. So if you've
Speaker 2: surrendered the policy, you actually you only have to pay
Speaker 2: taxes on anything that you receive that is over what
Speaker 2: you paid. So the dollar amount of the cash basis,
Speaker 2: so what it is that you paid into it, you
Speaker 2: will receive that back tax free, no income tax on
Speaker 2: that amount of money. I think it's also important to
Speaker 2: mention Matt like term life yes, better, But we were
Speaker 2: mentioning all these little caveats because yeah, it depends on
Speaker 2: how long you've had that. There's a lot of different
Speaker 2: factors that you plan to have it taken into account.
Speaker 1: Yeah, health stuff, and what the actual cost you would
Speaker 1: be paying for term life policy. I think it's probably
Speaker 1: worth getting quotes on term life policies for yourself. And
Speaker 1: you're soon to be, you know, in your fiance to see, okay,
Speaker 1: well how much could we actually say and are we
Speaker 1: ensurable at a decent rate? But I would also say this,
Speaker 1: there's the devil's in the details. And there's a nonprofit
Speaker 1: called the Consumer Federation of America that will review your
Speaker 1: policy for a reasonable one hundred and fifty dollars fee.
Speaker 1: And since this is such a big decision, and there
Speaker 1: are a lot of factors that go into whether or
Speaker 1: not you opt to keep her ditchit. It's probably worth
Speaker 1: getting insight from a pro. So we'll put a link
Speaker 1: in the show notes to this website, the Consumer Federation
Speaker 1: of America. The service they offer is it just run
Speaker 1: by this one guy. It's this one guy. Okay, this
Speaker 1: one guy whose name is James Hunts, and he has
Speaker 1: literally been reviewing life insurance policies since I was born
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty four. That's thirty nine years of experience.
Speaker 1: And he does it now.
Speaker 2: Talk about laser focus, right right. This guy does one
Speaker 2: thing and he does it really well exactly. So yeah,
Speaker 2: he literally says on the website, I've basically seen everything.
Speaker 2: Nothing you send my way is going to shock well.
Speaker 2: And before that, he used to be the tax commissioner
Speaker 2: for Vermont and so he was in the industry before.
Speaker 2: This guy is a pro. He's been doing this specifically
Speaker 2: for a long time. I honestly, I really like the
Speaker 2: simplicity of his model, like this business.
Speaker 1: And that he's set up public servant basically in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, like he's doing this as a way
Speaker 1: to help people and just cover costs and so, but I.
Speaker 2: Think he probably makes decent money doing it too. Maybe
Speaker 2: he does, Okay, I don't know, I've heard of anybody
Speaker 2: else doing this, But he'll talk it through with you
Speaker 2: too after he runs the numbers. I just think it's
Speaker 2: one of those things where it's like, well, hey, if
Speaker 2: you've had this policy for in that borderline ten to
Speaker 2: fifteen year period and you're not sure where to go,
Speaker 2: and I think it's borderline, running it through with him
Speaker 2: and having him crunch the numbers will help provide some
Speaker 2: peace of mind knowing that then you're making the right
Speaker 2: decision on whether to keep it or cancel it. But Robin,
Speaker 2: hopefully that's helpful again if we can all go back
Speaker 2: like almost everyone would get term life and not whole
Speaker 2: life policies. And I'm sorry, I'm sorry that someone even
Speaker 2: at a decent company, led you astray in the beginning,
Speaker 2: because I'm sure, yeah, that of course has cost you
Speaker 2: over the years. But while that's a bummer, you can
Speaker 2: still make hopefully a smart move here in the here
Speaker 2: and now. Right, But Matt, let's get too a couple
Speaker 2: more questions, including a frugal or cheap we'll talk about
Speaker 2: one listener going to the County Fair, whether he made
Speaker 2: a wise decision or not. We'll get to that and
Speaker 2: more right after this. All right, we are back and
Speaker 2: we will get to that frugal or cheap County Fair edition.
Speaker 2: But before that, let's hear from a listener who is
Speaker 2: going to be getting married soon.
Speaker 4: Hi there, my name is Cassie and I'm from British Columbia.
Speaker 4: I'm also getting married soon. So I was wondering what
Speaker 4: the best way to manage finances together slash blend our money.
Speaker 4: I've heard that it's one of the most difficult things
Speaker 4: in marriage, and so what do you guys suggest from
Speaker 4: your experiences, like what credit cards or budgeting? Will also
Speaker 4: be in a university during this time, so if you
Speaker 4: have any extra advice.
Speaker 7: Please let me know.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Matt. Cassie is north of the border. We
Speaker 1: have a nice contingent of international listeners.
Speaker 2: We some number of folks up there in Canada. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I know that there's a lot of advice we offer,
Speaker 2: hopefully on the show that is applicable to people that
Speaker 2: fans orders living on shore, Ye.
Speaker 1: Live in Canada, live in you know whatever. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of people in Europe as well.
Speaker 2: But there's certain principles that hold no matter what the
Speaker 2: actual products investment accounts, that you can invest with it
Speaker 2: even if you don't care about the roth Hira income
Speaker 2: contribution limits where I just keep over the last one
Speaker 2: where Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, I guess we have talked about loonies. Not that's
Speaker 1: what they're called. Yeah, I think they're actually Canadian dollars,
Speaker 1: but loonies and tuonies. That's like the common vernaxt right
Speaker 1: one dollar two dollar coin. Right, Yeah, but I've never again,
Speaker 1: I've never been. But all right, question for you, do
Speaker 1: you think that combining finances is the most difficult thing
Speaker 1: in marriage?
Speaker 2: I think it can be, right, It's always it's like
Speaker 2: it's either money, it's how many kids you're going to have?
Speaker 2: It is what is your relationship going to look like
Speaker 2: with your in laws? Like those are all the they're
Speaker 2: like snares and waiting, like they could all potentially be
Speaker 2: topics that lead to the worst arguments or fights that
Speaker 2: you have, but they don't have to be, and I
Speaker 2: don't think they're going to be when it comes to
Speaker 2: Cassie because I love for her that she's being proactive. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I love that Cassie, I feel like you're the
Speaker 2: type A I don't know, you remind me of me
Speaker 2: a little bit because this is something I was worried
Speaker 2: about before I got married. We were super intentional and
Speaker 2: made sure that we sat down because we had premieral
Speaker 2: counseling before we got married, and we talked through some
Speaker 2: really important life stuff. We talked about faith stuff, we
Speaker 2: talked about we even talked about kids. Guess what we
Speaker 2: didn't talk about at all? Money? And I was just like,
Speaker 2: wait a minute, I feel like there's a big sort
Speaker 2: of sector here that that just went untouched. Again, it's
Speaker 2: because of that I had to be a little little proactive.
Speaker 1: Amazing that gets left out of a lot of those
Speaker 1: combos when it's such an important topic for us all
Speaker 1: to be discussing. But I agree with you, Matt. I
Speaker 1: think the fact that Cassie is asking the question that
Speaker 1: she is being intentional on the front end. She's so
Speaker 1: ahead of the game already. You're you're setting yourself up
Speaker 1: for success because you.
Speaker 2: Care exactly yeah, yeah, you know. And money finances, it's
Speaker 2: just one of the like the mini areas that you're
Speaker 2: combining in, all of which require a lot of communication,
Speaker 2: you know, like when you're single, you used to make
Speaker 2: that decision and you just keep on moving with your day,
Speaker 2: like how it is you're gonna spend money, what is
Speaker 2: it that you're gonna do? But now there's someone else's
Speaker 2: feelings to take into account to take into consideration. And
Speaker 2: that's true whether we're talking about spending and saving or
Speaker 2: whether we're just talking about going out with your friends
Speaker 2: on a Friday night.
Speaker 1: But I thought we were going to Netflix and chill together,
Speaker 1: baby was like, and then there's hurt feelings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what I'm getting at is regular, healthy communication,
Speaker 2: Like that's going to be key to all of these discussions,
Speaker 2: whether you're talking about money, whether you're talking about friendships,
Speaker 2: whether you're talking about kids and in law is all.
Speaker 1: That And I think that means humility and asking for forgiveness.
Speaker 1: I've realized this with my kids too, Matt. The more
Speaker 1: I'm able to apologize for things that I've done, the
Speaker 1: ways I've hurt them, or ways that I was rude
Speaker 1: or short or something like that, that I feel like
Speaker 1: that is building a level of trust in our relationship,
Speaker 1: even when I've done something that hurt them or that
Speaker 1: wasn't that was short sighted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so Cassie sounds like a humble lady. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but you got to just got this on lot. Both
Speaker 2: of those are really important in that relationship dynamic.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: The more you can kind of incorporate those two things,
Speaker 1: the more firm foundation foundation you're going to build. And
Speaker 1: I would say our advice for most folks who get
Speaker 1: married is to combine finances. That advice is somewhat malleable, right,
Speaker 1: It might change a little for a duo who's getting
Speaker 1: married later in life. Let's say you're getting married in
Speaker 1: your forties or fifties or whatever, or you've had a
Speaker 1: previous relationship that failed. I mean, those that can impact
Speaker 1: our advice here. But studies show that couples who combine
Speaker 1: finances are happier and they also tend to build more
Speaker 1: wealth with that approach. And so it doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: you can't or shouldn't have some level of autonomy and
Speaker 1: ability to spend how you want. You should still remain
Speaker 1: a distinct individual inside of that relationship, and we do
Speaker 1: want you to create room for that in your budget.
Speaker 1: It's just important to be able to spend without getting
Speaker 1: approval for everything. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you
Speaker 1: should not be combining most things, because I think it's
Speaker 1: going to help accentuate your goals and your ability to
Speaker 1: achieve them, and it's going to put you guys on
Speaker 1: the same page. It's actually going to force some of
Speaker 1: those discussions that are necessary to make the progress you're
Speaker 1: going to want to make with your money.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so you said goals, Like, some advice I
Speaker 2: would have is just to dream together, right, like, come
Speaker 2: up with shared goals together, because I think that common
Speaker 2: division is to ensure that you both feel like that
Speaker 2: you're on the same team, which is exactly why those
Speaker 2: couples in that research. We can link to the article
Speaker 2: as well that talked about that research about happier and
Speaker 2: wealthier couples who have combined their money. But I think
Speaker 2: that's why they tend to be better at building wealth. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there is serious legit power in two people who are
Speaker 2: going hard after the same thing. And which also makes
Speaker 2: me think about prenups by the way, because there's going
Speaker 2: to be some folks who tell you to get a prenup.
Speaker 2: I am personally not a fan. I feel like by
Speaker 2: someone somebody getting those, there is like a lack of
Speaker 2: trust that is implicit with that, right, and it almost
Speaker 2: becomes like a self fulfilling prophecy when it's just like, oh,
Speaker 2: I trust you with everything except for this, you know,
Speaker 2: my money, the thing that allows me to do everything
Speaker 2: else that I'm able to do in life with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like, hey, there's a distinct chance this doesn't
Speaker 1: work out, and you are exoing seeds.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it's self fulfilling. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
Speaker 2: You're some of those seeds. I think with the inherent
Speaker 2: act of creating a prenups a negative for your money,
Speaker 2: which I don't like. And I know that there are
Speaker 2: plenty of couples who are going to say, oh, I've
Speaker 2: got a perfectly happy relationship, but I would venture to
Speaker 2: guess that they would be even happier, that they would
Speaker 2: be even wealthier, that that relationship would last even longer
Speaker 2: if they didn't have a prenup.
Speaker 1: Well, there are a lot of couples that where they're
Speaker 1: that relationship fell apart in the prenup process, right, Like
Speaker 1: they really just that one step of trying to hammer
Speaker 1: out a bunch of those things. And maybe you would
Speaker 1: just say, well, that revealed kind of the underlying dysfunction
Speaker 1: to begin with, maybe, but I do think like.
Speaker 2: A crash course of its better to identify these cracks now, right,
Speaker 2: Like identify this fact the potential cracks in the foundation
Speaker 2: now uh. And as to whether or not these are
Speaker 2: things that can be mended or I think my advice
Speaker 2: would be if you if you think that a prenup
Speaker 2: is necessary, then why I guess it makes me question
Speaker 2: why marriage is the ultimate goal then, because there are
Speaker 2: other ways to have a long term, committed partner partnership.
Speaker 2: Valid question.
Speaker 1: But if you're saying listen, no, no, I'm going to commit
Speaker 1: to you for the rest of my life. We are
Speaker 1: going to get married in the eyes of the state
Speaker 1: and my church or whatever, then at why at the
Speaker 1: same time would you have to have this backup?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I feel like we could potentially go down
Speaker 2: this path. But like it raises the question of like
Speaker 2: marriage in general, and I think that there are a
Speaker 2: lot of folks who are entering into marriages and relationships
Speaker 2: like that that aren't taking those seriously enough.
Speaker 4: Ye.
Speaker 2: Like, I feel like that that's what it's a more,
Speaker 2: it's a larger indicator of But I feel like we're
Speaker 2: getting a little too heavy here, So I'm gonna like
Speaker 2: back out a little bit.
Speaker 1: You just have to be careful if you're saying I'm
Speaker 1: going to commit to all these things and then you say,
Speaker 1: but I'm not committing to combining my finances, I think
Speaker 1: it just raises some deeper questions totally. Cassie also mentioned
Speaker 1: credit cards and budgeting, and so yeah, a couple suggestions
Speaker 1: on that front. Use credit cards responsibly, of course, but
Speaker 1: which ones that's really up to you. I mean, you
Speaker 1: can choose to optimize cash back or travel rewards, and
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're interested in traveling for free,
Speaker 1: that is definitely one one route to go. We have
Speaker 1: content related to that in previous podcast episodes and up
Speaker 1: on the website. But really, how complex do you want
Speaker 1: to get and what are you shooting for? That should
Speaker 1: inform which credit cards you opt to get. For budgeting,
Speaker 1: that's also personal, right If you prefer digital we love
Speaker 1: wine ab you need a budget that rocks. But there
Speaker 1: are lots of ways to skin that cat too, So
Speaker 1: Matt does the old school Excel spreadsheet. I mean, really,
Speaker 1: whatever floats your boat on that front and whatever allows
Speaker 1: you really like, I think whatever aids communication for the
Speaker 1: two of you and makes it easy for both to
Speaker 1: kind of get in on the money things so you
Speaker 1: can have good conversations. I would prioritize that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which makes me think that Cassie should prioritize simplicity
Speaker 2: because you're saying like it depends on how complex you
Speaker 2: want to go with it. That kind of determines maybe
Speaker 2: what card you get, Cassie. I mean, if I I'm looking,
Speaker 2: I'm thinking back to when I first started out, and
Speaker 2: I think this simpler the better, especially if your partner
Speaker 2: may not be one hundred percent on board all in,
Speaker 2: because I'm guessing, like again, you kind of sound like
Speaker 2: the type a personality, and I think if you put
Speaker 2: together this really elaborate, complex plan, and even if you
Speaker 2: have a special fun date night where you make you know,
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, we're going to talk about this and
Speaker 2: it's gonna be great, and you have a bottle line
Speaker 2: or craft beer or whatever, even still I think your
Speaker 2: partner could have there might be a sense of resentment
Speaker 2: where he's just like, man, I feel like she's trying
Speaker 2: to control.
Speaker 1: How it is like we're going to live our lives,
Speaker 1: or how.
Speaker 2: It is I can spend or when am I going
Speaker 2: to give my input statements like that, And even on
Speaker 2: your part, if he doesn't stick with a plan, you
Speaker 2: might have like a sense of resentment a little bit
Speaker 2: because you're like, man, I work so hard to put
Speaker 2: together this awesome plan that's going to allow us to
Speaker 2: achieve our goals, but it's not really panning out. And
Speaker 2: so I think for now at least keeping being simple
Speaker 2: and then kind of slowly taking some baby steps and
Speaker 2: upping the level of complexity, especially early on while you're
Speaker 2: in school you've got other stuff going on.
Speaker 1: I feel like what you're pointing to here is that
Speaker 1: the process matters more than the results. And that's something
Speaker 1: Emily says a whole lot at my wife, who is
Speaker 1: studying to become a therapist. I think she's spot on.
Speaker 1: It's like how you tackle this together, even the forming
Speaker 1: of the methodology, and like how you communicate about it
Speaker 1: and the tools you use, and how you incorporate each
Speaker 1: other into that place process that matters, and that shows
Speaker 1: a lot of love and respect if you're able to
Speaker 1: make sure they feel comfortable with the process too, not
Speaker 1: just saying like, all right, I figured it out, here's
Speaker 1: what we're doing.
Speaker 2: And so I'm making that other party feel seen and
Speaker 2: heard as they're able to kind of come to the
Speaker 2: table with their own ideas as well.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yep, casey, best of luck. We can't wait
Speaker 1: to be invited to the wedding. It'll be our first
Speaker 1: stop in Canada, so I might go, hey, don't invite
Speaker 1: me a let you're serious road trip.
Speaker 2: Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Matt will even perform the ceremony. All right, let's get
Speaker 1: to our last question for this episode. This is a
Speaker 1: frugaler cheap, a fun one from a listener in Indiana.
Speaker 7: Hey man, Angel, my name is Bobby from Bellpraizo, Indiana.
Speaker 7: I have a frugaler cheap situation for you. So I
Speaker 7: took my family to the fair the other day, the
Speaker 7: County Fair, and it was a lot of fun, but
Speaker 7: a little bit of prep work. I was able to
Speaker 7: save about forty bucks on lemonade. I'll tell you how.
Speaker 7: So I had some of those souvenir sand castle cups
Speaker 7: from previous years. So before we left, we stopped at
Speaker 7: all the gots lemonade, got a nice and cold and
Speaker 7: I washed those old cups out real good. We went
Speaker 7: to the fair, had a nice picnic, and then as
Speaker 7: we're walking around, we're thirsty. I just busted out my
Speaker 7: ald lemonade from the cooler, filled up our sand castle cups,
Speaker 7: and were sipping lemonade in style. Except our three jugs
Speaker 7: cost me about six dollars instead of forty five. So
Speaker 7: my question is is that frugal or is that you Bobby?
Speaker 2: Love it, buddy, sipping and style. Okay, what is the
Speaker 2: sand castle cup? I don't know. I have a specimply
Speaker 2: related to that county fair for the Indiana County whatever
Speaker 2: state fair. I love it. Okay, So this actually I
Speaker 2: was getting, by the way when I was like hearing
Speaker 2: his question, getting like Charlotte's web vibes to make me
Speaker 2: think of Wilberg going to the what is it the
Speaker 2: Prettiest Pig Contest whatever it is show. Yeah, yeah, I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh man, that's such a good book. It's a nice throwback. Okay.
Speaker 2: So Bobby's situation here, it kind of reminds me I
Speaker 2: shared maybe not too long ago, about when we went
Speaker 2: to six Flags we got a refillable you had unlimited
Speaker 2: refills on a single cup, and you know we're taking
Speaker 2: all six of us in. I'm like, man, these cups
Speaker 2: are twenty five bucks. So I don't know, it reminded
Speaker 2: me of that because there's a part of me that
Speaker 2: was like, oh, this feels a little bit cheap. And specifically,
Speaker 2: like I guess to Bobby's question here is I wonder
Speaker 2: how his family felt, right, because our kids were young
Speaker 2: enough that they didn't. I don't think they felt the
Speaker 2: stigma of us all sharing the same cup. You know,
Speaker 2: like there's other families walking around and they each person
Speaker 2: has their own cup. There's other groups, each one of
Speaker 2: them has their own cup. Here's our family walking around
Speaker 2: waiting in line for the rides. We got one cup
Speaker 2: and we're all like passing it back and forth. But
Speaker 2: I think they're young enough that they're just like, oh whatever,
Speaker 2: we're just this is just how we're doing it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And so I think that's a consideration, Bobby, is your
Speaker 2: family family members, were they on board as well? As
Speaker 2: you're busting out the jugs of all the lemonade are
Speaker 2: lapping their foreheads, They're like, oh damn, are there people
Speaker 2: around you giving you the eye? And all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: they feel they're just embarrassed at the fact that this
Speaker 2: is a step that y'all are taking in order to
Speaker 2: save money. Because that's way back when when we did
Speaker 2: the original Frugal or Cheap episode where we talked to
Speaker 2: spend a whole episode talking about what it means to
Speaker 2: be frugal, what it means to be cheap. Imposing your
Speaker 2: frugalness on somebody else without necessarily giving them a choice
Speaker 2: is might be a form of cheapness. And in this way, but.
Speaker 1: You also might say, hey, listen, even if we don't
Speaker 1: do this, like we're not buying a fourteen dollars leimonade
Speaker 1: or whatever it is at the count of care, like
Speaker 1: that's not our budget.
Speaker 2: There's always trade offs, right, And so I welcome that conversation, right,
Speaker 2: the ability because if your kids are like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: I'm so embarrassed, Well, that's a learning opportunity. That's that's
Speaker 2: an ability for you to for them to learn the
Speaker 2: value of money and to even get them on board
Speaker 2: a little bit and say, hey, we might save a
Speaker 2: ton of money here, and hey, you're gonna be on
Speaker 2: the receiving end of this because of this, each one
Speaker 2: of us is going to be able to get an
Speaker 2: extra ice cream snack. Oh, we'll be able to go
Speaker 2: do this ride when before we weren't able to. And
Speaker 2: I think that's the important lesson and moving forward. If
Speaker 2: they're like, nah, I really want to get this year's
Speaker 2: sand Castle Cup, And what if changed the cup? The
Speaker 2: cup it's tied eye this year, dad, and those are
Speaker 2: all green or something like that. It's like, oh man,
Speaker 2: we're the only ones with the green sand Castle Cup.
Speaker 2: There are all these small things that take into account,
Speaker 2: and I think different folks are going to make different decisions.
Speaker 2: But it's all sort of like you're saying, like the
Speaker 2: Emily's counseling thing, it's it's all the process is so
Speaker 2: important in hearing your kids and your spouse, and I
Speaker 2: don't know, just you got to take all that into
Speaker 2: account as you're trying to make the best decision not
Speaker 2: only for your money, but for your family and the
Speaker 2: culture and everyone around you too.
Speaker 1: So one other thing that I think could make this
Speaker 1: land in squarely in the cheap category instead of frugal
Speaker 1: is if the money that you spend on those lemonades
Speaker 1: and the special sand Castle cups goes to like a
Speaker 1: community organization or a nonprofit proceeds go to charity. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then if you're like being super super cheap with that,
Speaker 1: then that that feels that's just cheap instead of frugal
Speaker 1: total totally. It makes me think of like Emily and
Speaker 1: I we took the kids to this mini pony petting
Speaker 1: thing which it was all about a fundraiser for ponies
Speaker 1: and pastries and animal rescue organizations.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: And so they they were selling pace trees there and
Speaker 1: there was a whole pie that someone had made from scratch.
Speaker 1: It looked delicious. They were selling it nice and like
Speaker 1: they had cookies on the table too. There were two
Speaker 1: or three bucks. But then this pie. I was like, hey,
Speaker 1: how much for the pie? There was no dollars tign
Speaker 1: attached to it. He was like, oh, do we take
Speaker 1: like five bucks? And I was like, no way, I'm
Speaker 1: not paying you five. I'm paying you a lot more
Speaker 1: than that because this is a nonprofit man, and like,
Speaker 1: I want to help them. Came here distinctly to help
Speaker 1: support it, and so so you talked them up. Yes,
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm giving you twenty five bucks for
Speaker 1: this pile.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, because look at you, who are you rich
Speaker 2: steady fat sacks? Who are you being cheap towards night. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and if it's a nonprofit or community fundraiser, I would say,
Speaker 2: I'm going to buy those those cups with gusto because
Speaker 2: I want to support what's going on here. It's a
Speaker 2: badge of honor that you're paying that much. It's one
Speaker 2: thing if you're doing it with that in mind. It's
Speaker 2: a completely different thing if you are just partaking in
Speaker 2: mindless consumption. And that's I guess the sort of the
Speaker 2: angle I was coming at it with is if everyone's
Speaker 2: doing it, and because everyone's doing it, you feel that
Speaker 2: you have to do it and it's not even a
Speaker 2: question that gets raised whether or not we UH used
Speaker 2: our cups from last year. That's what I'm pushing back on,
Speaker 2: and I think that's the lesson that you can that
Speaker 2: you're able to share with your kids. But it makes me, oh,
Speaker 2: it makes me think of y'all went to Disney and
Speaker 2: y'all came back with some bucket.
Speaker 1: What's the bucket thing? It's like the popcorn bucket. Popcorn bucket,
Speaker 1: you pay like thirteen bucks, but then you get refills
Speaker 1: for two dollars and twenty five cents every time.
Speaker 2: And you guys loaned us the bucket and we're going
Speaker 2: to use it when we go down there next month.
Speaker 2: I think that's frugal, right, I think that's frugal, totally frugal.
Speaker 2: So yeah, but you're asking the question, which is good
Speaker 2: just say, hey, who am I? Who am I harming?
Speaker 2: Am I having the right conversations with the right people
Speaker 2: in order to pull this off?
Speaker 1: And yeah, hopefully that'll help you think about whether it's
Speaker 1: frugal or cheap in your case, it's kind of hard
Speaker 1: not knowing all the details. And again this is like, uh,
Speaker 1: somewhat silly the frugaler cheap sometimes, right, But it's also
Speaker 1: I think it brings to light something that is something
Speaker 1: that we're all faced with every day every week in
Speaker 1: our own lives, like am I being cheaper?
Speaker 2: Am I being frugal?
Speaker 1: Especially as you're trying to save money, You're trying to
Speaker 1: cut back so that you can save and invest more
Speaker 1: so you can live the life you want. Sometimes you're
Speaker 1: going to come to a junction point. You've got to
Speaker 1: figure out am I frugal or am I cheap? And
Speaker 1: which path am I going to go? And sometimes yeah,
Speaker 1: even if it is supporting a community or nonprofit organization,
Speaker 1: you might say I'm not there right now. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so I have to just avoid it altogether. But it's
Speaker 1: clearly a fork in the road that all of us
Speaker 1: come to on our financial journey a different points, that's right.
Speaker 2: And either way, Bobby's being frugal by being a patron
Speaker 2: of Aldi, Like, there's no way that you're not gonna
Speaker 2: be able to save boatloads of cash. Literally when we
Speaker 2: switch over to all the like years ago, we were
Speaker 2: able to slash our grocery budget by thirty percent. Huge
Speaker 2: win there, Bobby. And if you haven't given Aldi a shot,
Speaker 2: and there happens to be one near you, definitely give
Speaker 2: it a go. You're missing out, Joel. Let's go ahead.
Speaker 2: Get back to the beer that you and I enjoyed
Speaker 2: during this episode. This is a Angel of Darkness. This
Speaker 2: is a beer by Wicked Weed Brewing. What were your thoughts?
Speaker 1: So this one had red wine vibes in my estimation, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it was like a tart red wine with a
Speaker 1: bunch of fruit in there. So I'm kind I'm not
Speaker 1: definitely not into wine, I'll say that, but I am
Speaker 1: trying out some more Kirkland signature wines on occasion, like
Speaker 1: four Paints once a month a twelve or thirteen dollars
Speaker 1: bottle of Kirkland signature wine. We've moved beyond the box
Speaker 1: wine finally as we near our forties, but this still
Speaker 1: craft beer is my favorite. I prefer craft beer, and
Speaker 1: I love Kraft beer that has wine ish kind of qualities,
Speaker 1: and so this one fits that fits that note. And
Speaker 1: it's a good sour lots of good fruit coming through.
Speaker 2: Yeah, barrel aged American sour ale with boys and berries, blackberries, raspberries,
Speaker 2: and cherries as well. I was gonna say it almost
Speaker 2: had like it had a lot of berry fruity tartness
Speaker 2: going on, but it almost had like this leatheriness that
Speaker 2: I think came from it aging in oak. Do you
Speaker 2: ever drink craymerry juice? I have? You know, there's like
Speaker 2: the a minute you kind of have like this feeling
Speaker 2: on your tongue, Like it leaves like a leathery feeling. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what I get with this. I see it kind
Speaker 2: of has like this in the texture or the feeling
Speaker 2: that it leaves in your mouth from the darkness translates
Speaker 2: into fl a little bit. And so even though this
Speaker 2: is a tart cherry, it makes me think of like
Speaker 2: dark wood and weathered leather kind of you know, like
Speaker 2: it makes me think of like their frontier or like
Speaker 2: a well appointed library. Flavors that would accompany that, like
Speaker 2: a cigar smoking room where yeah, yeah, that's there's like
Speaker 2: a richness that you need to be in anything like this,
Speaker 2: a dark, moody room with mahogany and enjoy this beer. Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So anyway, yeah that's what I was thinking, well while
Speaker 2: we're drinking this one. But yeah, Angel of Darkness by Wicked.
Speaker 2: We we've had tons of beers by them, all right.
Speaker 1: Let's gonna do it for this episode though, Bud. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll have show notes and links to some of the
Speaker 1: things we mentioned up on the website at how some
Speaker 1: money dot Com. You can always find out there. You
Speaker 1: can always find our credit card tool. If you're looking
Speaker 1: for a new credit card tool, looking for the one
Speaker 1: that's best for you, you can find that up and
Speaker 1: how the Money dot Com up in the right hand
Speaker 1: corner clip on credit card tool. But Matt until next time,
Speaker 1: Best turns out Messed Friends out
Speaker 2: The wool