1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: Hi. This is new due to the virus. I'm recording 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: from home, so you may notice a difference in audio 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: quality on this episode of News World. If you listen 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: to episode ninety one of News World, you heard my 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: first interview with Gerard Robinson and our discussion about race 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: in America. Since that episode aired, we've received a lot 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: of responses from listeners who wanted to hear more about 8 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: race in America and where do we go from here? 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: So I invited Gerard Robinson to join me again for 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: another candid conversation. Is a longtime friend and someone I admire. 11 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: I'm pleased to welcome back my guest, Gerard Robinson, the 12 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: vice president for Education at the Advanced Studies and Culture 13 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: Foundation in Charlottesville, VERGA. He previously served as Commissioner of 14 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: Education for the State of Florida and as Secretary of 15 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: Education for the Commonwealth of Virginia. Gerard, I really want 16 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: to thank you for sharing with us something I know 17 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: you've thought a great deal about and spend your lifetime 18 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: working on, and that is how do we find solutions 19 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: to the question of race in America? And I know 20 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: that you're a naturally positive person, and so i'd be 21 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: very curious looking at the current polarization and the current difficulties, 22 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: and the violence on the street and the very very 23 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: large demonstrations. Who as you look forward for the next 24 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: ten or fifteen years, how do you see America being 25 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: true to itself and working its way through all this. 26 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: There are two ways. One is to go back and 27 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: look at our ideas across space and time, and then 28 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: the second is to look at moments in history where 29 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: we'd used those ideas for right calls and when we 30 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: did not live up to them. One of the reasons 31 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: I remained positive in twenty twenty is because that I 32 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: understand as a black man in America that with the 33 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: challenges I have because of race, that I live a 34 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: better life than my mother and father did, who were 35 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: also black, and they lived an economically more secure life 36 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: than their parents. And so from the end of the 37 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: Civil War to the present, there's been a lot of progress, 38 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: and I think we have to focus on the progress 39 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: that we've made. What the killing of George Floyd has 40 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: done is it's given us an opportunity to look at 41 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: some of our warts, and we have a number of them. 42 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: I think it was doctor Connolly as a Rice, who 43 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: recently in an interview, referred to the issue of race 44 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: as America's birth defect. Others had called it a sin 45 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: on our democracy, whatever term you use, we know that 46 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: it's real. But we have examples of how far we've come. 47 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: So I think that we've got to take a look 48 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: at that. At the same time, when we are having 49 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: conversations about taking down statues, and that's a legitimate conversation 50 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: to have, what do you replace them with? So if 51 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: we want to take down statues of George Washington, yes 52 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: he was a slative owner. Yes he was a white 53 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: male who benefited from skam privilege. But he was also 54 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: someone who helped make it possible for us to sit 55 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: in air conditioned rooms in homes that are rented or 56 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: paid for with university degrees that taxpayers help to support. 57 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: Partificating about the good of bad and the ugly, well, 58 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: how did he make this possible? Can be focused on 59 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: that and the constitution itself. So I think we have 60 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: to look at the ideas but also look at the progress. 61 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: To what extent is there a split of view will 62 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: between those who believe that we continue to make progress 63 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: in the broad sense of economically, etc. That ultimately, as 64 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: life gets better, racial tensions will naturally decline. And those 65 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: who believe that unless you focus directly and explicitly on 66 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: racial tensions, that it doesn't matter how much progress you're 67 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: making on jobs or prosperity. Is that an appropriate dichotomy, 68 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: And if it is, where do you come down to 69 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: it it's a useful dichotomy. I don't know if it's 70 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: appropriate because I don't buy into the idea that racial 71 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: tensions will ever go away. I think there's just certain 72 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: built in dynamics that we play out. And what I 73 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: call skin is my kein philosophy, where we're going to 74 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: make allegiance with people who have the same phenotype and 75 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: not So that's just one point. What I do believe 76 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: is that you're going to find maybe not less tension, 77 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: but you can shift that tension towards something that's more 78 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: productive by focus exactly what we have in common. Now, 79 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: we think about the moment we're at their families who 80 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: are concerned about the safety of their children, black and white, 81 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: Hispanic Native American mother, Let's focus on the issue of safety. 82 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: We all want to make sure our kids have a 83 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 1: great education. Let's focus on that. We want to make 84 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: sure people aren't brutalized. And there are more people who 85 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: are white who've been shot and cured by police from 86 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen to the present than black. So I would 87 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: like to find areas where we find common interest, not 88 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: for the sake of minimizing racial attention. I think that's 89 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: going to be around for a whole different set of reasons, 90 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: independent of jobs, education, or even religion. Do you expect 91 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: it to be no matter how successful we are at 92 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: integrating economically, that there will remain a residual degree to 93 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: which we have not integrated racially. I would say you 94 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: don't even have to look for that. Look for that 95 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: within the white race itself. So in the US, look 96 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 1: at the number of whites who have been involved in 97 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: generational poverty, the grandparents, grandparents, grandparents, which just generational property 98 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,359 Speaker 1: across the line, and they're white. If we take a 99 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: look at the Europeans who travel to the United States 100 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: from southern and Eastern Europe, their arrival on the Atlantic 101 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 1: shore of the US was tough. The Italians were often 102 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: called the n words of the white race. You had 103 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: signs that talked about Irish were not allowed. So even 104 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: within the white race. Excluding people of color, there hasn't 105 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: been equity. You still have very interesting dynamics. Race makes 106 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: it easy to compare black and white because you don't 107 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: have to talk about class. But once you take the 108 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: black dynamic out of it and you're looking at an 109 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: intro white dynamic, now you're talking about class. And as 110 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: much as we want to believe we're a class of society, 111 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: we've never been a class of society. So the tensions 112 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: that you see even amongst white within the Democratic Party 113 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: and Republican Party are tensions that have been there for 114 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: a long time, and they existed before the idea of 115 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: bringing in race. So I think some of this is 116 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: just a part of who we are in terms of 117 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: tension and ideas. So what a sent or Asian Americans, Latinos, 118 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: and African Americans really can't be lumped together as people 119 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: of color because their experiences and their cultures are so 120 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: dramatically different, you know, that's correct. I use the term black, 121 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: some use African American, and that's fine. Ten percent of 122 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: the people we call black in the United States are 123 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: in fact immigrants, a number of them from West Africa, 124 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: from Haiti, from the Caribbean, and from South America. We 125 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: talk about Asians, we lump Asians in one big group. 126 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: Often we say Asian, we don't think about Indian, I 127 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: mean technically or Asian. And even when we talk about 128 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: the model minority, maybe it's Chinese and Japanese. What about Vietnamese? 129 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: What about Mong? What about Thai? And in every group 130 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: you've got the gradations of class, religion. Within the Hispanic community, 131 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: think about it. When we say race, we think black. 132 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: When we say ethnicity, we think Hispanic or non white. 133 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: When we say Latino, that's more brown skinned people of 134 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: Hispanic areas than not. So all of us can't be 135 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: lumped into the same group. That's why we've got to 136 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: find an American agenda that we can all link to 137 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: as we think about moving forward. Let me break it 138 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: into maybe three different zones, personal, corporate, and government. At 139 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: a personal level, we have a lot of people who 140 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: are sincere, but they may never have had much relationship 141 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: with African Americans. So they'd like to be helpful if 142 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: they don't actually have a clue how to start. What 143 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: would you say to them? I would say, take a 144 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 1: look at what other whites have done for over a 145 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: hundred years. Who are in the same situation. Some of 146 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: them have invested in nonprofit organizations they think advanced their calls. 147 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: So I think about doctor Martin Ruther King, Jr. Who 148 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 1: was the first president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, 149 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: or SCLC as it's known. You had an NAACP at 150 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,719 Speaker 1: the time. You also had an Urban League at the time, 151 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: you had other organizations. But when people looked across the board, 152 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: they said, I'm going to invest in SCLC because I 153 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: like what King is saying and he's got a Christian 154 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,559 Speaker 1: in the words. So that's one thing people can do. 155 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: Another thing they can do is to purchase books written 156 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: by and about Actrican Americans across space and time. This 157 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: is twenty twenty, a hundred years ago. We were in 158 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:49,239 Speaker 1: part of what America calls the Harlow Renaissance, a flourishing 159 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: of black literature, of black arts. A number of those 160 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: scholars had affiliations with my alma mater, Howard University, but 161 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: a lot of them were also in New York and 162 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: across the country. I would say, how far have we 163 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: come or not in a hundred years As relates to 164 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: Black intellectual tradition from nineteen twenties to the day. The 165 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: third thing, and one that's gone on even before a 166 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: hundred years is faith based conversations across the line. Keane 167 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,839 Speaker 1: also talked about Sunday being one of the most segregated 168 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: points in America because we go to different churches, yet 169 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: many of us within the Christian faith Christian being Catholic 170 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: and protests or worshiping saying God Save You're just in 171 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: different places. I think the faith based community has a 172 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: tremendous opportunity to have virtually conversations between white churches and 173 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: black churches and black pastors and others. So I think 174 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: technology opens up at one of opportunity for us to 175 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: reach out. If you were giving advice to sixteen to 176 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: nineteen year old young black male, how much would you 177 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: tell them to focus on learning how to rise in 178 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: the world as it is? And how much would you 179 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: tell them to focus on trying to change the world 180 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: as it is. I would focus on telling them to 181 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: do some important things. Number One, become or remain literate. 182 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: And that's more than learning how to read a book 183 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 1: or listen to a podcast. Literacy has a lot more 184 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 1: to do with your ability to comprehend texts and passages 185 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: to apply what you learned across different genres. And it 186 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: also means to look at literacy as a way of 187 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: liberating yourself emotionally, economically, spiritually. So I would say focus 188 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: on that number two. I would say read books by 189 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: men who look like you to see how they dealt 190 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: with challenges when they were in their teams or they 191 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: were young adults. In terms of changing the world, I 192 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: think once you change yourself, you can decide to get 193 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 1: involved in a movement to change things. I think that's 194 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: one thing we have with Black Lives Matter. But some says, well, 195 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: while I mean not march or invest, what I'm going 196 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: to do is I'm going to teach. So I would 197 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: tell them find a craft to change the world and 198 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: walk that lane, because there are many ways you can 199 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: be involved. But I would definitely say find role models 200 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: alive and dead where you can learn lessons. What are 201 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: some of the books you have found most helpful and 202 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: you would recommend to a younger African American to read. 203 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: One of the first books I read in my teens 204 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: was a book by doctor Carg Woodson, second African American 205 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: earned a PhD from Harvard Behind WV The Voice, he 206 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: wrote a book called The Miseducation of the Negro, and 207 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: it's not a very long read, but it's a book 208 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: that pretty much coming from an intellectual that just think 209 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: about it. When he wrote this book in the early 210 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 1: part of the twentieth century, he was one of the 211 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: few of Americans independent of ways, who had a PhD. 212 00:12:55,800 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: And he pretty much walks you through a self yet 213 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: scientific way of looking at being black in America or 214 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: at that time, Negro in America and what did it mean? 215 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: What were the traps? What are some of the opportunities? 216 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: So that book, when I talked to black professionals across 217 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 1: the board and we name books that influenced our lives, 218 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: that's definitely one, because I think even white people, Hispanic 219 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: Native Americans and others who were finding themselves in the 220 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: position of being a Negro, in this sense of wondering 221 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: where do you fit in society a rapid change, they 222 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 1: could benefit as well. I would say, pick up Born 223 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: to Rebel by Benjamin E. Mays means to be the 224 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: president of Morehouse College. Here's a man who grew up 225 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: in South Carolina, saw one of his parents brutalized by 226 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: the clan, later earned a PhD. Becomes a college president 227 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: and helped change the world through producing the generation who 228 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: worked in military government and others. Just seeing his life 229 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: and his change and leaving South Carolina to go to 230 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: Bates College in May I think is an important book. 231 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: This is one of people would find somewhat interesting because 232 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: I am a free market guy. I would pick up 233 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:14,199 Speaker 1: the book How Capitalism Underdeveloped Black America by Manning Metable, 234 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,719 Speaker 1: and I would pick up that book because while I'm 235 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: a free market guy, I support our capitalist system. It's 236 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: worth knowing as black people what role capitalism has played 237 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: in the United States and creating a type of environment 238 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: that we have today when we're talking about, in fact, 239 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: do black lives matter? There are more books, but those 240 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: are three that come to mind. You'd mentioned earlier about 241 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: Darlin Renaissance. But there was a period in Memphis, in Tulsa, 242 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: and I think Raleigh where there's a very substant ential 243 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:05,359 Speaker 1: black middle class and there were places where there were hotels, 244 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: and there were restaurants and there were stores. Many of 245 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: them were actually destroyed by things like urban renewal more 246 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: really building highways directly through them. I don't know who 247 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: has written an economic history of the post slavery period. 248 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: It's really frustrating because you see people beginning to rise 249 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: and systems beginning to work, and then they get run over. 250 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: Its correct time and time again, and that story is 251 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: fast from one generation to the next. There's a book 252 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: the History of Black Business in the United States, and 253 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: it's a really good story because it really just goes 254 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: through the role where blacks have played in the free 255 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: market system, either as entrepreneurs or starting corporations and moving forward. 256 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: That's why I would definitely take a look at We 257 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: recently had conversations about Tulsa, Oklahoma and the Wall Street 258 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: and what happened literally a bombing of that city and 259 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: what happened there. Reginald Lewis, he published a book called Russia, 260 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: White Guys Have All the Fun. I had a chance 261 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: to meet his wife and daughter at a book event 262 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: at Harvard Law School inside of a center that bears 263 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: his name, where he talked about his rise from going 264 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: to Genie State University to Harvard Law School and opened 265 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: up a billion dollars company. But the frustration about government impediments, 266 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: about labor contracts that basically wrote out non white men 267 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: and women, regardless of race, into jobs and examples of 268 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: red line is just horrible. I have a very good 269 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: friend who is half black and half white. She's a woman, 270 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: did one of the smartest art historians I know, and 271 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: she's lived in Italy for I think about thirty five years. 272 00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: And she told me the other week, we're just chatting 273 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: about the differences, and she said, to the best of 274 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: her memory, no one in Italy has ever noticed what 275 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: her racial background is. They didn't know whether she was 276 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: North African or whether she was Sicilian or whatever, and 277 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: it didn't matter. But it wasn't one of the ways 278 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: they kept score. She said, She's always felt comfortable, and 279 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: only in the last couple of years as race has 280 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: become a more public issue in America, as she realized 281 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: how really different Italy is from the United States, and 282 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: that kind of experience, and I thought it was kind 283 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: of fascinating to some degree. The very nature of America 284 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: heightens an awareness that you don't get in a place 285 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: in Italy. There's truth to that twenty but also historically, 286 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: you listen to stories video archived or reading articles or 287 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: books written by black veterans of World War One and 288 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: World War Two who spend time in Germany and France, 289 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: different parts of Europe, and they saw both sides. Some 290 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: of them told stories of them walking through the streets 291 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: and people turn it around to see whether or not 292 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: they had a tale, because the white soldiers said, you know, 293 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 1: these guys are really monkeys, and if you see them walking, 294 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: you look close up to you'll see a tale. So 295 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: that was one side. But you also had white business 296 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: owners inviting them to sit and die with other whites 297 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: at the same table that in the United States, there's 298 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: just no way they would have an opportunity to even 299 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: integrated environment. A number of them end up marrying European women, 300 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: a number of them came back to the United States. 301 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: We know this to be true from experiences of veterans. 302 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: We know the same thing about American athletes. Some of 303 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: the black athletes who participate in international amateur sports, who 304 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 1: go the state throughout Europe have had a very different interaction. 305 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:53,959 Speaker 1: Not saying it's perfect. If you know they may call 306 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: the inner word. That's still challenges. But the nuance of 307 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: race in America is definitely different than the new wants 308 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: of race in Europe, in part because how race became 309 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: so much a part of our unspoken truth in the 310 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: United States, where in Europe they also are older than 311 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: we are and had a longer history with Africa than us. 312 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: But you still have some African Americans who live in Europe, 313 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: in fact in Paris, one in particular, who has a 314 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: tour that she sponsors if you want to get a 315 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: tour about black Paris, and it's about the role of 316 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 1: black people in French society before colonialism and afterwards. There's 317 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: some truth to that, and I see that continuing for 318 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: quite some time. I wonder to what extent do you 319 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: think in terms of the great sweeps of history and 320 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: how change occurs. It's a little hard to realize how 321 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: recently legal segregation was real and enforced, often if necessary, 322 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 1: by killing people. We're only talking about a generation ago 323 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: in that sense. There's a long process of change under way. 324 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: They do think there was a period when we were 325 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: already to move. Not necessarily there's been color blind but 326 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 1: towards King's formula, the content of your character being more 327 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,719 Speaker 1: important than the color of your skin. Think of obviously, 328 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 1: would a real national leaders on my side, people like 329 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: a Condi Rice or a Colon Powell a huge impact, 330 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: and I think very few people thought of them first racially, 331 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: I think they thought of them a sort of unique 332 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: human beings. So you've lived through segregation in Georgia pre 333 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four post nineteen ninety four. In Atlanta, when 334 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: Benjamin May's is on the school board, the integration of 335 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: its schools had challenges, but nothing like we saw in 336 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: Boston in the nineteen seventies, in part because Atlanta had, 337 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: at least amongst many themes, a city too busy to hate, 338 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: and so you had people like John Lewis, you had 339 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: others who said, we're going to make this work. But 340 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: just think about the time period when, for example, the 341 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: current conversation right now about reparations, many of those who 342 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: are against the said slavery was over one hundred years ago. 343 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: There are no existing slaves. The problem with linking reparations 344 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: solely to slavery overlooks the fact that after slavery you 345 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: had a long history of systematic discrimination. You had from 346 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy seven moving forward after reconstruction, you had black 347 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: codes that stopped many African Americans from not only owning businesses, 348 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: but parlayne in fact, who they could marry. Get into 349 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: the twenties and thirties, and forties and fifties. I'm currently 350 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: in Charlensville, Virginia. Just think about women not coming into 351 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: UVA and to the nineteen seventies last school to really 352 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: make a big push on that. So discrimination, as we 353 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: know it is bigger than slavery. You had black codes, 354 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: you had Jim Crowe, who in many ways had a lasting, 355 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 1: longer impact on people free. It's not as far back 356 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: as we think. Including my mother, we would drive from 357 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: Los Angeles to Lake Charles, Louisiana to see my relatives, 358 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: and I remember her coming back to the car crime 359 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: on a number of occasions, and I said, what's wrong. 360 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: He said, they don't have any rooms, and I said, 361 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 1: but the sign says Bacon's. This happened for years in 362 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: the seventh is because they weren't going to win a 363 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 1: room to bleats. And one time she said, watched this. 364 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: We set in the car. Two other cars pulled up 365 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: over about an hour and a half period, both white, 366 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: and they both got rooms. And I went, oh, now, 367 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: I see now that was a kid and I was 368 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:53,239 Speaker 1: him ten years old. That was in the seventh I 369 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: was born in Harrisburg and I grew up in an 370 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: integrated US Army. I remember first getting into Georgia in 371 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty, which was the first time I saw a 372 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: white only and colored signs for bathrooms or water founds 373 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: or whatever. But in the late sixties I was a 374 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: graduate student of Jo Lane, which in New Orleans had 375 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: a very interesting and very complicated background, really growing out 376 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: of the fact that when New Orleans was really prosperous, 377 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: you'd have one street that had all the wealthy, basically 378 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: white people, and right behind them you'd have the streets 379 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: that the servants lived on. And so they had these 380 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: communities that were totally negative. And I had a woman 381 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: telm it that when her son was bleeding, and this 382 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: sounds the late sixties, she had to take him to 383 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: the back door of the doctor's office because the doctor 384 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: wanted to treat him, but he couldn't treat him if 385 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: he came in the front. I think it's very hard 386 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: for white Americans to fully appreciate how personal and how 387 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: humiliating it was. And I think part of that's also 388 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: the sense of helplessness. People forget that. Literally as late 389 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: as the mid sixties, as we saw with the famous 390 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: pictures of the police dogs in Birmingham, you had the 391 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: full power of the government at the state level and 392 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: a number of Southern states that was enforcing this behavior, 393 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: and you had the power of the mob that was 394 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: prepared to lunch people in the way that again I 395 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: think is totally outside the comprehension of most way Americans, 396 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: but is actually, I think an integral part of the 397 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: black experience and is so recent that it's part of 398 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: what fits into the whole sense about the police because 399 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: it's whatever the current situation is, it is reflected against 400 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 1: several generations of repression. And here's an example of why 401 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: we've got to look at oppression outside of just the 402 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 1: experience of blacks in America. Definitely unique because of chattel slavery. 403 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: But when you think about one of the early man 404 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: asked lynchings in the United States, yes, African American man 405 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: in particular more so than others. You mentioned New Orleans, 406 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: that's home to one of the early mass lynchings in 407 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: American history, and those were of Italians. Go back and 408 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: read the newspaper articles and the stories about why that happened, 409 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 1: how you have that many people, a large mob hanging 410 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: the Italians, and why the Italians. You go to New York, 411 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,199 Speaker 1: You go to Boston, hear the stories of people of 412 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: Irish descent, some of them even having conversations in the 413 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: eighties about how they still felt themselves. You have more 414 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: empowered but still being treated differently. You have John F. 415 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: Kennedy from a very wealthy family, very well educated. He's 416 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: going to run for president as a senator, and yet 417 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: his irishness and his Catholicness within the light establishment is 418 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 1: in question. And so I think that whites could benefit 419 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: a great deal by walking through their own historical lineages 420 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 1: and seeing the oppression and itself play out across the board. 421 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: Because when you even look at vagorancy laws, surely they 422 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: had to have major impact on the ability of black 423 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: people travel, but Baker City laws had a lot to 424 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: do with landless whites and what that meant as a 425 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: takeover they brought from them with Europe and the poor laws. 426 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: We often want to get into what I call the 427 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: victim Olympics to see who was victimized more than others, 428 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: and everyone's got a right to identify it and hold 429 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 1: the flag. I just think there's an aspect of victimization 430 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: within different groups we can learn from across the plate 431 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: and say, well, now that we know this less creative 432 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: agenda for the future, Now I'm going to put you 433 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: on the spot because I think this is part of 434 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 1: what people who really enjoyed learning about you in our 435 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: first conversation and came back and asked us, but if 436 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: you could waive imagic one, what would your idealize the 437 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: agenda for the future be. No agenda in America is 438 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: going to take place without economic fulfillment. I want to 439 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: put together a number of small commissions that are local 440 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: based for people to have conversations about how can we 441 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: make smart cities, smart counties, smart rural areas. By smart, 442 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: I mean we've got to have the intellectual infrastructure. We've 443 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: got to have the capital, we've got to have the 444 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: technology for people to want to live in that place 445 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: and stay in that place. But that's going to require 446 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: local people getting together to say, how do we create 447 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: economic security. It's going to be everything from someone, let's say, 448 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: from the left saying a minimum livable wage, which let's 449 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: say it's fifteen dollars, to someone saying, well, why don't 450 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 1: we have a social entrepreneurship fund to invest in businesses 451 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: and everything in between and accept the fact that compromise 452 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 1: will be part of the conversation and accept the fact 453 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: that we're just not going to agree on everything. But 454 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: I would start that at the local. So that's an 455 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: economic standpoint. From a faith standpoint, we've got a lot 456 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,439 Speaker 1: of traditions, including the fact that a few study a 457 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: few years ago identify that there are more people today 458 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: who identify with WICCA than who are members of the 459 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 1: Presbyterian Church. And so to realize that there is a 460 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: growing number of people who have a faith tradition that 461 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: may be very different, radically different than let's say that 462 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 1: one of our familing generation, but who nonetheless are part 463 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: of our citizenry and they believe that their faith matters. 464 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: And so I think we need to have inter faith dialogue. 465 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: If we believe in within the Catholic and the Protestant perspective, 466 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: if we believe in Jesus and the power of the church, 467 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: how do we make that happen. So I think there's 468 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: a faith and a belief perspective. Third thing, we've got 469 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: to have a strong focus on education. And for me, 470 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: education simply is in the school building. It's a lifelong 471 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: learning process. How do we invest in programs at work 472 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: but nothing that I said is new. But I just 473 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: don't think that we often implement what we said we 474 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: want to do. But those are just a few things 475 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: for coming to mind. I've been fascinated with the Museum 476 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: of African American History, and you cannot go there without 477 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: having a much richer and a much deeper sense of 478 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: the length in the importance of the African American experience 479 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: in American history. And I think it's overall a remarkable 480 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: addition to the Smithsonium, and I recommend it to anybody 481 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: who's listening to the podcast. If you go to Washington, 482 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: try to make some extra time, and I would spend 483 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: at least three or four hours because they have tremendous 484 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: exhibits and you'll just find yourself learning a lot. It's 485 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: a remarkable place. That museum has had a tremendous impact 486 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: on people of all colors and races who have been there, 487 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: and they come back with just wonderful stories. And what 488 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: we say is we see the African American experience. What 489 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: they're really looking at African American investment into American civilization. 490 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: I think about the fact that in seventeen seventy three, 491 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: when the British Parliament had enacted the Tact, and American colonists, 492 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: of course replied by staged in the Boston Tea Party. 493 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: While that was taking place, you had free and enslaved 494 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: Africans and Massachusetts who were submitting to the state legislature 495 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: petitions for their own freedom. Seventeen seventy seven, when Vermont 496 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: breaks away from New York for its own independence, you 497 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: had Prince Hall, who was then a slave, and several 498 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: other African Americans who were petitioning the legislature. Seventeen seventy seven, 499 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: a month before the delegates arrived to Philadelphia to talk 500 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: about the Constitution, you had Richard Allen and Absolom Jones, 501 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: men of faith who created the Free African Society to 502 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: deal with economic wellbeing of children and families education. These 503 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: actually served as examples for non black congregations do the 504 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: same thing. So when I talk about into a Black 505 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: history in the United States, for me is an experience, 506 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: it's about the Black investment and that investment we've all 507 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: benefited from. That's great, That's a very very useful and 508 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: powerful distinction, and I appreciate your sharing you with us. 509 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking your time, and I 510 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: think people will find this a very stimulating and very 511 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: thoughtful opportunity to get to know You've been better. Glad 512 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: to be a part of the conversation. And now I'll 513 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: answer your questions. Robert H from Illinois writes, how does 514 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: President Trump get his message to the mass population, especially 515 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: independence African Americans and Hispanics right now since the leftist media, 516 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter, and the virus are setting it tone. 517 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: And he goes on to say, and I appreciate your 518 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: saying this. Thank you for the tireless work to preserve 519 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: this great country. Look, I think we learned from Ronald 520 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: Reagan the way you get pasted all of the noise 521 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: on the left his steady, consistent work. Presidents have enormous reach. 522 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: When the President this week held a remarkable briefing with 523 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: the Attorney General, with the head of Homeland Security, with 524 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: a number of families who had had loved ones killed, 525 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: and he outlined what he was doing and why he 526 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: was doing it, that penetrated period and if he stays 527 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: on it and follows up on it, he will get 528 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: his message across. But it does require persistence. It's also 529 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: a fact a sort of an amazing fact that his 530 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: total reach on social media just about evens out with 531 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: all of the major news media combined. He's now been 532 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: fighting them since twenty fifteen. He's gotten about ninety three 533 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: percent negative coverage and the elite media, and the results 534 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: been that he's bought him to I think basically to 535 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: a tie because of the sheer reach of what he's saying, 536 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: because Frank, most of what he's doing the average American 537 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: cares about. I mean, the average American listens to Biden 538 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: indirectly promising to take money away from the police. He 539 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: doesn't say defund because he knows that's politically dead, but 540 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: he says, oh, we'll divert money, which of course is defunding. 541 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: Trump comes back and says, no, the police need our help. 542 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: And by the way, here's the murder rate in New York, 543 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: there's the killing rate of Chicago, etc. And as a result, 544 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: about seventy five percent of country does not want to 545 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: defund the police because they're looking every day at this 546 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: murder rate and this shooting rate thinking this is crazy. 547 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: So I do think it can work. Thank you to 548 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: my guest Gerard Robinson. You can read more about race 549 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: in America and where we go from here on our 550 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: show page at newtsworld dot com. Newts World is produced 551 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: by gamligh Thweet sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producers Debbie Myers, 552 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: and our producer is Garnsey Slow. The artwork for the 553 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: show was created by Steve Pender Special thanks to the 554 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: team at Gingwish three sixty. Please email me with your 555 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: questions at Gingwish three sixty dot com slash questions. I'll 556 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,399 Speaker 1: answer them in future episodes. If you've been enjoying news World, 557 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate 558 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: us with five stars and give us a review so 559 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: others can learn what it's all about. On the next 560 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: episode of news World. There has been a national outcry 561 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: by left wing activist to defund the police in the 562 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 1: wake of George Floyd's murder in Minneapolis in May. However, 563 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,479 Speaker 1: shootings are now on the rise in Chicago, New York 564 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: and other major cities. What will it take to keep 565 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: our cities safe? My guest is Bill Bratton, the man 566 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: who created safety for New York City in the nineteen nineties. 567 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: This Sunday is our one hundredth episode of Newsworld, and 568 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for listening, for email swing 569 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: me your questions, and for your great interest in the 570 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: issues we all face as a country. I'm new ganguage. 571 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: This is Newsworld