WEBVTT - The Decluttering Episode: Comparing Styles, Progress Updates & More! EP 469 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:13.840 Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:14.440 and speaker. 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:18.560 And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:22.040 writer and course creator. We are two working parents who 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:24.000 love our careers and our families. 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:27.360 Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.360 how real women manage work, family, and time for fun. 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.200 From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:39.320 We want you to get the most out of life. 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:43.640 Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:46.720 episode is airing in late July of twenty twenty six. 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:50.080 We're going to be talking all things decluttering. This is 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:53.920 a decluttering blitz of an episode. We happen to know 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:58.440 that decluttering is a big topic. Much of my Instagram 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:02.319 feed is about people declutter. We see the videos about it, 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:06.839 lots of articles in magazines. And it makes sense because 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:09.920 having an uncluttered house makes it more functional. I mean, 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:13.280 people like to have things where they're supposed to be. 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:16.399 There is much joy in opening a drawer and finding 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.120 your scissors exactly where the scissors are supposed to be, 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:21.759 and not surrounded by a million other things that are 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.640 not supposed to be there. So, Sarah, you had set 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:28.360 a goal to declutter your house for many years. 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:33.200 Right, Yes, I different variations of that goal, Like sometimes 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:35.360 I wanted to do it in a specific way using 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:37.920 the organized through sixty five method, which we'll talk about 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.600 in this episode. Other times I just had a general 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:42.320 goal of decluttering different areas. 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:43.520 And finally, in. 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:46.160 Twenty twenty six, I said I would like to declutter, 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:48.280 but I am going to hire a professional to help 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:50.280 me do so because I failed this goal too many 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.080 other times. And as someone who does talk about what 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.320 to do when you hit roadblocks with goals, I knew 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:57.680 that just setting it again was probably not going to 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.960 be the answer. Yeah, So there we were at the 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:02.080 start of twenty twenty six. 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:04.880 Yeah, set it again and we'll talk about that. But 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:07.360 real quick, we want to just do a quick life 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.680 recap because we haven't talked that much in the podcast. 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.440 We record quite a bit ahead of time. Like you 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:16.560 thought you would be in somewhere else right now in 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:17.280 late July. 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:22.079 Correct Sarah, Yes, as this is airing, I should have 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.440 been like waking up for my last day in Maui 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:29.520 and headed to Kawai for this trip. You guys, you 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:32.959 listeners have heard about a bunch because it has played 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.240 an anticipatory role in my life for probably a year now. 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:38.080 I literally started. 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.160 Booking the hotels over a year ago. 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:41.560 In fact, the trip even got moved. 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:43.639 If you were in a student listener, you may know 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:45.560 we were going to go in early June and then 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.880 moved it to mid July because of my daughter's geometry class. 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:50.480 But I was so proud that I was able to 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.880 move it and make it work. The irony is that 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:55.560 if we had gone in June, we would have gone 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.320 on the trip, yep. But we did not go in June, 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:01.440 and Annabel is acing jometry, So for what it's worth, 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.399 there was a good reason for moving the trip. However, 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:06.560 in early July, or maybe it was the end of June, 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:09.480 obviously end of the end of June, my husband went 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:12.440 to a basketball game and I got a phone call 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:14.519 and he said. 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:16.160 I broke my leg. I'm so sorry. 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.000 And this wasn't even the first time I've been through 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:20.480 that exact phone call, which. 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:21.160 Is pretty crazy. 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:23.880 Literally had like that same phone call fourteen years ago 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.320 when he broke his other leg skiing, But this break 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:28.560 actually turned out to be worse it involved the joint. 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.920 It was shattering of multiple bones that doctors said it 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.400 looked much more like a motorcycle accident than a basketball injury. 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:41.520 And thankfully he's okay. He underwent surgery, he has slowly recovered. 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.840 Probably by the time this airs, he will be much 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:46.920 more recovered. Right now, he's in the kind of early 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.160 phases to a lot of pain. Will not be weight 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.480 bearing until August. And we had to obviously change everything 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:54.480 about our summer that we had envisioned and that I 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.680 had spent a lot of time thinking about. So that 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.720 included our trip and included a lot of processing time. 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:03.080 He's obviously out of work. I didn't have to take 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:05.280 off too much work. I mean, I've been like helping him, 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:07.800 but ar Nanny has been helping him when I'm not there, 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:11.440 and so at least that's been pretty okay. And at 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:13.880 this point and certainly by the time this errs, I mean, 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:15.480 I'm it is what it is like. 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:17.320 This has been a year of more. 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:21.039 Disappointments, though than like a normal person should have. Obviously 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.240 there is no should. I'm still here. Everyone's in one 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:25.760 mostly in one piece, like no one who's a horse. 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:31.680 I mean one piece put together. I mean, yeah, so. 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.640 There's hope for the future. But like so I ended 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:36.680 up canceling my trip in July to see Laura and 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.400 a good friend. I had already missed a conference in 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:41.720 San Francisco because my mother in law passed. Like they 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.880 were all like very much like good reasons, like I 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:46.760 couldn't have done it any other way, or I wouldn't 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.200 have done it any other way. And it's also just 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:52.000 added up to a kind of a sucky like it's 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.080 I've had my own personal COVID year, yeah. 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:57.920 While everyone else got to have normal. But that's You's 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.080 a planner, right, you got a new planner so so 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:01.919 that you don't have to look at all the stuff 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:03.960 that you're not doing well. I did that in twenty 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:04.480 twenty two. 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:07.240 But yes, I did get a new July to December 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:09.120 planner because I couldn't stand the idea of trying to 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.479 plan my work schedule right on top of my snorkeling 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:13.520 and surf lesson. 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.320 Guys, wait, were you going to do the surf lesson? 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:19.520 I thought you had decided not to do the surflas. 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.760 So caectate this surf less and I was very excited 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:23.760 to do so it was going to be so cool, 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:26.479 Like he even told me, like there's a place to sit. 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:27.719 Like, here's the good news. 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:29.760 My planning did not go to waste because I have 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.240 a really well thought out Hawaii trip just waiting to 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.760 be rebooked. And you guys, my organization helped. Like I 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:38.560 was able to find everything very easily, and I have 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:40.760 learned to book refundable over the years, so I got 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:42.719 pretty much everything back. 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:45.599 So that part is at least we will. 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:47.599 Be able to use all that planning for a future 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.640 Hawaii trip, which I've decided can't happen until next summer 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:53.560 because I really want that full two week window and 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.120 without doing crazy heroics and pulling kids out of school 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.039 for long lengths of time, that would have to wait 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.080 till next Summer's Yeah, but. 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.240 You'll do something else for spring break, right, you'll do 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:05.880 a trip maybe that you would have a spring break. 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:08.760 You're exactly like trying to make up for the fact that, hey, 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:11.120 like our vacation coffers will be a little more full 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.280 than we might have expected for twenty twenty seven. Let's 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:15.200 see what kind of really special things we can do. 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:19.160 Yeah, that's exciting. Well, best slide Plans, life happens, and 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.200 we're amazed how resilient Sarah has been about all this. 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.880 But anyway, so that's a life update there. But as 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:27.960 part of that, you are home more, you are having 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.279 more time to declutter. So we can pivot from there 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:35.960 to your decluttering journey. So back in January, you hired 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:38.240 somebody to come help you, right, What was the thinking 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:38.520 with that? 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:41.599 Yes, So, as I've talked about, if you're setting a 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.480 goal over and over again and you're not changing any 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:46.960 of the variables associated with that goal, you're like sort of. 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:48.840 Doing an exercise and futility, and you. 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:53.159 Can make a goal smaller, you can decide not to 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:55.080 do a goal, you can change a goal, or you 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.719 can get some kind of outsourcing or assistance. And I 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:01.120 chose to go that route with my decluttering goal. We 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:03.920 actually had a member of Best Laid Plans Live about 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:05.719 a year ago that was a kon Mari consultant, which 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:06.080 is how. 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:07.760 I got the idea. Like, I will talk about con 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:08.600 Mari in a minute. 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:11.720 But I just think it's a fascinating framework of decoll uttering. 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.160 And she has a training program where people can get 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.120 trained in her methods. And this woman at our bestling, 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.720 Plans Live was doing that, and I actually emailed her 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.200 during the conference, Hey, can I hire you, like, will 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.240 you help me virtually organize my house? She said no, 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.080 she doesn't do virtual organizing, but she used some people 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:29.640 that did. And then I really thought about it, and 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:31.360 I was like, I don't really think virtual it's the 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:32.840 way to go here, Like I think I need a 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.360 human person with me in my house making things happen. 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:38.680 It would be a little too easy to just not 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:42.600 be accountable to something that felt less tangible. So I 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:44.240 hired a woman named so It found there's like a 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.440 network of kon Mari people. I sent emails out to 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:47.680 two of them that were in South Florida, and I 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.280 ended up hiring a woman named Sophie. And Sophie is young, 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:54.120 she's in her twenties and she's come I don't know, 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:56.160 like maybe seven or eight times now. She usually comes 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:58.800 for three hours at a time, and we work on 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:01.080 a kon Mari fired category. 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.400 So we work together, like I am working. 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:06.720 It is not like I can go do a podcast 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:09.240 and she is organizing my bedroom like no, no, no, 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:11.640 Like I am the one who has to decide what 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:13.240 to keep and what to give away, et cetera. 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:14.720 So, for example, we. 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.480 Just did the kitchen, and the kitchen is not really 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.560 a con Marin category, but again she works in the 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:25.280 she's flexible and so it's one of the Homono categories, 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.360 which just means like everyday things. And she actually divides 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:32.600 the kitchen into food stuffs and then cooking preparation things, 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:34.719 and then serving things. So there's like three categories. We 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:37.520 did two out of the three during this three hour session. 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:41.760 We did cooking preparation things, which is like pots, pans, gadgets, 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:44.439 spatula's everything, and then also serving stuff, so that means 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.560 every plate, every spoon, every whatever. And we took stuff 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.080 out and then we decided did it spark joy or not, 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.200 and then we put a lot of things to donate 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:57.240 because they didn't spark joy, and then she helped me 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:00.640 put them back in a smart fashion. And every time 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:03.880 we've done an area, I get rid of a lot because, 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:05.960 as it turns out, when you're not actively weeding out 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.680 your stuff, you just kind of keep accumulating and accumulating. 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:11.120 So that's kind of what the sessions look like. She 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:12.920 actually at the last session, she could tell I was 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:14.679 overwhelmed with like what do I do with all this stuff? 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:17.000 And she's like, I will don't eat it for you 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:19.240 for an extra little small fee, and I was like, yes, 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.679 you will do that. I was like, here, please take 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:23.800 my stuff for all I know. She sold it and 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:25.040 then she made money twice. 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:26.439 I don't care. It was out of my house. 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.280 And that is what the kun Marii sessions look like. 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.640 They're very helpful. There is a part that it's like, oh, 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:37.120 I could do that on my own, but guys, I 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:38.240 absolutely would not. 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:38.960 I would not. 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.880 And every time that she's even calming, I'm like, oh, 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:43.920 there's a other stuff I'd rather be doing. But you know, 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.040 when I've scheduled this and I promised myself I would 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:47.480 do it, and I made time for it, and then 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:50.280 after I'm done, I'm like, that was good. This really 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.760 makes me feel better. This space is better. We did paper, 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.280 which means we went through every single book in the house, 0:09:56.920 --> 0:09:59.000 not the kid's books, every single adult book in the house, 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.040 and every single fire in my files. 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:03.720 That was great. I mean they're much more functional now. 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:07.120 That's cool. I mean, so I have a question, Sarah, like, 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.080 is it really that bad? I mean, didn't you guys 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:11.240 move in twenty twenty two. 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:14.080 I don't think it's that bad, but it's not as 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:15.040 good as I would like it to be. 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.400 I see, okay, because I mean it sounds like she's 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:21.600 been there what like twenty plus hours now, and it's 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:23.040 been twenty plus hour projects. 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.200 If you're really looking at like every paper you own, 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:28.280 it takes a while. Maybe I didn't let me see, 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:29.760 I didn't look at every paper I own. 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:31.400 We did my. 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:35.640 Closet, we did the bathrooms, we did the kitchen, and 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:40.960 we did office supplies, books, papers. I think that's it. 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:44.520 We haven't done the kids rooms. She hasn't done my husband, 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.200 like Joshu said, And I think this will help a 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.280 lot as well that he is willing to do sessions 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:51.080 with her, because now he's like seeing what that looks like. 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:53.559 And I do think some of. 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.280 What is cluttering our house is maybe more his. But 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.440 if he's going to do those sessions, then that will 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.200 help as well. So yeah, I think I don't have 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.440 like a hard deadline like initially because I wanted to 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:07.439 finish in the year, but I'm definitely making significant progress 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:09.320 and I just want to keep steadily going until we 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:10.679 feel pretty done. 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:12.880 Yeah, I mean that is always the challenge. I mean, 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.480 when you live with other people, there are many things 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:17.760 you can do. There are also other things that are 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:22.079 harder to do based on other people's things that they 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:25.680 may or may not. Sometimes people feel things are perfect 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:30.760 because they are theirs, an attitude that's out there. 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.000 I've heard, Yes, that can be a barrier, but at 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:37.520 least I don't know. I think it helps everybody in 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.400 the family have an awareness of how things can be 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:42.720 more functional when there's less clutter around, which I think 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:43.520 is helpful. 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:45.280 It's helpful put it that way. All right, Well, we're 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:46.960 going to take a quick ad break and then we'll 0:11:46.960 --> 0:12:02.400 be back talking more about decluttering. Well, we are back 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:06.400 talking decluttering. I mean, certainly the moving as an impetus 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:08.640 to do this. You did get rid of some stuff, 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:10.760 didn't you. I mean in twenty twenty two when you moved. 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.120 Oh yeah, we definitely did. I think we could have 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.920 done a slightly better job, but it definitely helped. I 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.320 feel like you really did a blitz when you guys 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.040 switched homes. Like there was a lot of boxes, and 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.680 I feel like you were more ruthless about going through them. 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.559 Maybe, I mean, we didn't get rid of everything. Certainly 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.040 there were a ton of boxes just like put in 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.640 the basement or put in the attic. But what did 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:36.400 happen is then we hired the home manager shortly thereafter, 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.400 and she kind of went through a lot of the stuff. 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:42.720 And so I will put that out there as an 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.840 idea for people. Certainly you can be part of the 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.400 going through things, but if you sort of trust that 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:51.520 the person is probably not going to throw out some 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:55.520 priceless heirloom, right, you can also let somebody else do 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:56.839 a lot of it. And part of what they're doing 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.839 is not necessarily even getting rid of stuff, it's organizing it, like, Okay, 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.120 these things all go in this bin, and now it's 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:04.040 got a label on it, and so you can find 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:07.400 the Christmas decorations, and she's not going through and saying like, yeah, 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.560 that's a really crappy Christmas decoration. You don't need that. 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.120 But it is all going in a bin, and so 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:15.280 when you pull it out later, you may decide you 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:16.800 don't want to keep some of it, but it's all 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.439 in one place. And so I know there's sort of 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:21.560 a rule in decluttering that you're supposed to get rid 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:25.320 of stuff first before organizing it. But I'll just point 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.320 out that you can also have somebody organize stuff and 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:31.280 then decide later if you're keeping things not, and that 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:33.240 this is something you can get help with even if 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.800 you are not personally going to be answering every question 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:39.199 of do I like that sheet? Does that fork? Spark toy? 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.319 And so forth? Speaking of sparking joy, so let's talk 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.040 kan Mari. Sarah, what's the deal with kan Mari? 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:47.800 Yes, we're going to compareing. Don't worry, this whole episode 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:49.319 is not about kan Mari. We're going to compare and 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:53.240 contrast some popular decluttering methodologies that we have come across 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.560 over the year, many of which have been guests on 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.800 our podcast, although not Marie Condo yet. 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.120 Maybe one of these days we shall say. Well, her 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:03.640 co author in a book was so we had remember 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.760 that year's right? Okay, close enough. 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.680 So Marie Condo obviously wrote The Life Changing Magic of 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:12.520 Tidying Up, which came out around twenty fourteen. I believe 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:16.400 it's not that old of a methodology, and she talks 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.760 about holding every item in your house and figuring out 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:22.280 whether it's sparks joy and then deciding whether to keep 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:25.320 it and doing that in categories. She's very much not 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:27.280 to go room by room. It's to literally like find 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:29.280 every shirt in your house. But her methods are a 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.400 little bit more tailored, I think, to a one bedroom 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:33.880 apartment in Tokyo with no kids than they are to 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.240 a four bedroom house in South Florida. Let's say, so 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:39.840 there are parts that work. She has really strong opinions 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.680 about how certain things should be stored. She really hates 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.320 putting anything in wrappers. She believes that everything should be 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:49.600 stored like stacked vertically. Her folding methods are I think genius, 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:52.240 and I use many of them. And she gets a 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.120 little bit of a bad rap for people thinking that 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:56.000 she's prescribing minimalism. 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:57.480 But that's actually a misunderstanding. 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.760 So she once said something like I got down to 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:04.960 ten books, and that got publicized as this person says 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:06.680 to throw out all your books. You should only have 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:08.600 ten books, unless she's like, I did not say that. 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.360 She's like, in my personal situation, only ten of my 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:13.800 books spark joy, so I let the others go. You 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:15.520 may have a thousand books that spark joy, and that 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.120 is fine with you. So it's more individualizable, I think 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.160 than people give it credit for. But the idea is 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:24.160 that everything in your house should you should really want. 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:25.200 It to be there actively. 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:28.280 She also kind of promises that you only have to 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:30.440 do it once, but I've heard she's kind of backed 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:31.880 out of that since having children. 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.160 Yeah, I think, I mean, the idea that anything one 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.440 would only have to do once is just kind of 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:40.440 I don't know. I feel like the world doesn't necessarily 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.200 work that way. Life doesn't work that way. There's entropy, right, 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.480 Like things revert to a sort of less ordered state 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.880 in the absence of effort, So it's going to have 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:54.840 to be there. Yeah, I have to say I have 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.120 not been found the whole kon Mari thing that appealing, 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:00.760 And part of it was just, yes, the practic decalities 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:06.360 of like here you are trying to like put everything, 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:08.320 like every shirt in my house would be a disaster, 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:11.960 or every book in the house. I think it would 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.360 just be so overwhelming that we would just make a 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:17.640 big mess and never get through anything. But I think 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:22.120 more I really had a problem with the phrase your 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:26.640 life begins when you put your house in order, and 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.880 I think that is really a pernicious thought that is 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:36.040 already in a lot of women's heads that I can't 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:39.840 relax if my house is a mess, I can't go 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:44.200 have fun. If my house is a mess, I have 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:47.880 to clean up before I can live the life I want, 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.880 And that is ridiculous. You can absolutely relax if your 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.000 house is a mess. I mean, because the problem is 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:55.800 if you live with other people, there are going to 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:57.760 be messes, and then you'll never get to do anything 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.160 else because it's just they're going to keep making messes, 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.440 and then you will be trapped in this world where 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:07.120 you never relax. So I would say, get past that idea. 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.840 Your life begins now. Your life is going on. Now, 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.439 this is life, whether your house is organized or not. 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:15.159 You could ignore that part and just pay attention to 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:16.480 the genius folding techniques. 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:21.040 The folding techniques, well, there you go. What makes it 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.120 so genius just because they don't get wrinkled then or. 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.320 You can you can put stuff in drawers and see 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:27.320 every shirt versus if they're in stacks, you only see 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:28.879 the one on the top. But if they're like lying 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.800 on their side, you can see everything. It's like much 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:32.520 more logical. 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.960 There you go. So let's move to Dana K. White. 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:39.040 The K is important because Dana White is something like 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.960 ultimate Fighting, I believe. But Dana Ka White is the 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.280 organizing expert who is the author of A Slob Comes 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:48.199 Clean was her blog and I think one of her books. 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.160 We've both interviewed her. I believe Sarah at this point. 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:53.320 Yes, I had her on Bustly Plans and she's so. 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:55.479 Like mutual and orderly and all that, and I have 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:57.919 trouble believing that she was actually that much of a slob. 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:01.760 But maybe we never know what goes on behind closed doors, 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:05.080 and that she has made a quite the career of 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.919 writing about But I love her methods versus some of 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.840 the other ones, So maybe you can talk about that. Yeah. 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.200 So her like main method is called the five step method, 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.880 and it works for any space. And the five steps 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:21.760 are number one, look for trash and trash it. Number two, 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.560 find the easy stuff and re home it. So things 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:26.359 that are like, oh, that's a shoe, It goes in 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.040 the closet where we keep all the shoes. Number three, 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.760