Speaker 1: M. My name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production
Speaker 1: of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render,
Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and looked behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f
Speaker 1: HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear
Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore.
Speaker 1: And they would serve things. This is no joke with
Speaker 1: like a little paper squeeze cup of cheese whiz. Where
Speaker 1: is this? And I was just dumbfounded until and it
Speaker 1: was going to start making fun of it a little bit,
Speaker 1: but until I looked around and everybody there was actively
Speaker 1: enjoying their cheese whiz. Now what were they putting the
Speaker 1: cheese whiz on all their breakfast items? What? What state
Speaker 1: was this? Minnesota? Minnesota? Northern Minnesota. Didn't give you your own? Can?
Speaker 1: They gave you a like a little individual squeeze paper
Speaker 1: thing full of cheese with But they uh were they
Speaker 1: making their own? Or these are like produced? I think
Speaker 1: they were like craft supply is mate. This is a
Speaker 1: great cold open to the bar. Surrender. Great the cheese whiz,
Speaker 1: the cheese Whiz Render? Um Man, do we ever have
Speaker 1: an e collected group of people here today, you know,
Speaker 1: so I'm not going to introduce you. May have you
Speaker 1: may have you know, recognized their voices, but I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna introduce you for a minute. I'm gonna tell you
Speaker 1: guys that I've got to warn you that you will
Speaker 1: be scrutinized heavily by the original Beargrease Greece Crew. Okay,
Speaker 1: so my wife Mr NUNCLEM. Brent Reeves, Josh Lambridge, spillmaker,
Speaker 1: Gary Believer nucom that Brent brent Reeves is sharp. Yeah,
Speaker 1: man's sharp. Yeah. Well, I'm not saying the other people aren't.
Speaker 1: So occasionally, just the way it works is occasionally if
Speaker 1: I'm traveling or something and I have a new Bargreas
Speaker 1: render crew. The next the next time I see all
Speaker 1: these people, they're like, ah, you know they were Okay,
Speaker 1: they'll be like, yeah, that guy was this or that.
Speaker 1: So I'm just warning you you can wind up in
Speaker 1: a somewhat like I think it might. It might be
Speaker 1: like a somewhat post modern situation or something where the
Speaker 1: render becomes about the render. Yeah yeah, yeah, that's we've
Speaker 1: been accused of that. Actually, we've been accused of that
Speaker 1: how about the original Beargrease crew you only referred to
Speaker 1: as the cheacher owns there. Yeah, they're wren it out, dude,
Speaker 1: I think it would. It would be the crack Southern appropriate.
Speaker 1: There we go. No, Hey, it is fantastic to have
Speaker 1: a very new crew to my right, Phil Taylor, Hey,
Speaker 1: how's it going, CLA. Everybody would know Phil from the
Speaker 1: Meat Eater podcast, And if you don't, if you wouldn't
Speaker 1: know Phil from that, you would know Phil from all
Speaker 1: the incredible work he does on Bargrease. Phil and I
Speaker 1: work on Bargrease. You know, we coordinate together with how
Speaker 1: it's built. And so Phil Taylor the sound engineer for
Speaker 1: Meat Eater. Right, he gets like about a sentence in
Speaker 1: every podcast, but we have hundreds of them added up
Speaker 1: as paragraphs on the meta paragraphs of film I film.
Speaker 1: We need to make a sizzle reel of everything Phil says.
Speaker 1: Everything Phil has ever said, strong out. I do not
Speaker 1: want to hear that. You have to be the one
Speaker 1: that makes it. I know it's never gonna happen. Well,
Speaker 1: what I've learned from being around felt when he does speak,
Speaker 1: it's noteworthy. Yeah, I try. I don't like it when
Speaker 1: people talk too much at me, So I try not
Speaker 1: to talk too much at them. Yeah, I get it,
Speaker 1: don't talk at me. To your right, Ryan Callahan, man,
Speaker 1: this is uh, it's an honor to have you here. Brother. Hey,
Speaker 1: I've been looking forward to this. So Steve, Ryan and
Speaker 1: I have really never done much together. Of all the
Speaker 1: Metater people, have you know, traveled a lot with you?
Speaker 1: Honest with you, I've actually wondered about that. Yeah, we've
Speaker 1: never We've just never crossed paths much. And so you
Speaker 1: guys getting along. Yeah, man, you know it's probably because
Speaker 1: if you got me to Arkansas and wouldn't come back. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're brothers from another mother. You can tell by the stashes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's got mules, he's got gardens, got uh, lots of
Speaker 1: fishing and hunting opportunity. It's a pretty sweet deal right
Speaker 1: out your front door. It is, to your right, Steve
Speaker 1: Ranella Man. Now you are you're a regular on bargarase,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call you a regular if you're if you've
Speaker 1: been on there more than twice. So, but good to
Speaker 1: have you on the Render. So the Render for those
Speaker 1: for those who might not know the structure of the podcast,
Speaker 1: it's a little bit different. So we have and this
Speaker 1: isn't for you guys, this is for people out there.
Speaker 1: I try every now and then to kind of tell
Speaker 1: what's going on. So the Burgerase podcast is our documentary
Speaker 1: style podcast with a very specific target, and we we
Speaker 1: really dive in deep with multiple guests and and voiceover
Speaker 1: and soundscapes and really do it up. The Bargeras Render
Speaker 1: is what you're hearing here, which which is us talking
Speaker 1: about the previous week's Burgers podcast. So if this is
Speaker 1: your first time to listen to barg Rease, you know,
Speaker 1: go back one and you'll hear what we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about today, which is the Jerry Clower episode. But yeah,
Speaker 1: like the Burgries podcast is like all the really informed,
Speaker 1: correct stuff pretty much, and then you do this and
Speaker 1: it's it's things that weren't well thought enough to make
Speaker 1: it into that. Yeah, and you have I would imagine
Speaker 1: you have some suggestions for the Jerry clod podcast. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm very I anticipate these to your right, our
Speaker 1: last guest, and much of an honor to have you here, Karren,
Speaker 1: and you would a lot of you would know Karin
Speaker 1: from the Metator podcast as well. Your first time on Burgary.
Speaker 1: So my first time. So Karin is uh, tell us
Speaker 1: what you do, Karan, I produced the Meat Eater podcast,
Speaker 1: so a lot of pre interviews and setting up the
Speaker 1: agenda of talking points and transitions, keeping Steve in line. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: get into it. I want to. I learned there's two
Speaker 1: things that you don't bring up in the just in
Speaker 1: Life this week on my Instagram. Okay, there's certain topics
Speaker 1: that if you bring them up on Instagram, it's just
Speaker 1: gonna be problems for you. Number One, bee keeping are touching.
Speaker 1: They are very touchy and of touchy enthusiast groups like
Speaker 1: the dog oh Man. Okay, so I've got two things.
Speaker 1: The bee keeping thing is something that happened a long
Speaker 1: time ago, but I quickly saw that it fit into
Speaker 1: the thing that I did this week. That may have
Speaker 1: been a mistake, but bee keeping Misty has a couple
Speaker 1: of bee hives, and and she's an amateur. She knows it. Uh.
Speaker 1: Last year sometime I thought it was pretty cool she
Speaker 1: was pulling out some of the screens and looking at honey.
Speaker 1: So I took a video put it on my Instagram.
Speaker 1: The biggest mistake in my life beekeepers who mold they
Speaker 1: can look at a three second video clip and like,
Speaker 1: look into your soul to tell you why you know
Speaker 1: you're bad at life, bad at me? If you get
Speaker 1: a second, I'd like to speak to the to the
Speaker 1: touchy enthusiast audience, Well, let me tell you the next
Speaker 1: that's probably it's close hoof trimming stuff. But I saw
Speaker 1: that thing and I was like, look like you knew
Speaker 1: what he was doing? Well, so did I see? Man? No,
Speaker 1: I am not a I'll tell you my full experience
Speaker 1: with trimming. And I put my shoes on Mules. I
Speaker 1: don't shoot him very often. But you know, when I
Speaker 1: got Mules, I started paying ferriers to come to your house.
Speaker 1: And it's a hundred and fifty bucks and you gotta
Speaker 1: do it every six d eight weeks and you sit there.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, man, it's a big deal. I don't know
Speaker 1: that I knew. I thought it was a couple of
Speaker 1: times a year. Typically depends on who you are. Typically
Speaker 1: six eight weeks, like and and talking to the farriers.
Speaker 1: They're like because when the first guy started coming out,
Speaker 1: and their fairies are always great people, they really are.
Speaker 1: I've never met a ferrier. I didn't like they gotta
Speaker 1: deal with a lot of people they do, and they're
Speaker 1: just you can't fake out a horse or mule, like
Speaker 1: you just kind of have to be legit. And they
Speaker 1: see there one kick away from being mentally disabled, and
Speaker 1: most of them have been kicked. And he told me,
Speaker 1: he said, Clay, I said, do I really need to
Speaker 1: you know, shot this At the time, I had a horse. Actually,
Speaker 1: don't tell anybody ever on the horse. And I had
Speaker 1: a horse, and I was like, I really, do I
Speaker 1: really need this shoe this thing every six weeks? And
Speaker 1: he just said, Clay, people that are really dialed in
Speaker 1: on their in their equine business absolutely shoe every six
Speaker 1: eight weeks. And so I said, okay. But he basically
Speaker 1: just showed me what he was doing. And I watched
Speaker 1: him two or three times and I was like, I
Speaker 1: think I can do that, and he was like, hey, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can do it. And he just showed me how
Speaker 1: to do it, and so I started doing it. Primarily,
Speaker 1: not even financially, as much as it's a pain in
Speaker 1: the rear to schedule somebody to come six weeks in
Speaker 1: advance to your house and you know, you may not
Speaker 1: be there when they show up because you forgot about
Speaker 1: it or something. So I started trimming trimming my mule feet,
Speaker 1: which if you're if you're running them on rocks and
Speaker 1: rough stuff, the feet kind of trimmed down on their own.
Speaker 1: But man, I put up that little video just because
Speaker 1: I thought it was kind of cool. And you know,
Speaker 1: apparently I was using the knife backwards, which I mean,
Speaker 1: come on, well, there's there's there's there's there's a right
Speaker 1: handed and a left handed hoof knife, and I had
Speaker 1: two of them there and I just I mean, I
Speaker 1: just pick up whichever one's closest, and it it doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to be a limiting factor in in what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: But oh man, they went off on me pretty good.
Speaker 1: So so are you aware of Dr pimple Popper? Oh man? Know, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is a huge thing for some people. I cannot
Speaker 1: stand it. But it's it's like and and and and
Speaker 1: it's a huge following but the same and it's on
Speaker 1: people right and this person's or persons or whatever. They're
Speaker 1: plucking hairs, they're popping zits, they're they're doing spaghetti, squeezing
Speaker 1: it out. There's very gnarly stuff. But this whole thing
Speaker 1: also exists in the agriculture community to where you can
Speaker 1: watch these lengthy videos with millions of views of people
Speaker 1: working on abscess jaws, you know, you know, getting all
Speaker 1: the pus out of an obsessed jaw um and then
Speaker 1: doctoring feet is a big thing. Yeah. Yeah, And so
Speaker 1: these people and we're talking about horses here, just to
Speaker 1: be clear, correct, we're talking about the the whole gamut.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And so that's who you're dealing with, okay.
Speaker 1: So you you just hold your head up high and
Speaker 1: know that you're dealing with a bunch of people with
Speaker 1: weird foot fetishes, okay, and at the base of their complaints,
Speaker 1: they just want to see more clay. That is probably
Speaker 1: the best advice I've had. And I know that there
Speaker 1: are very professional ways but to do stuff. Here's my
Speaker 1: pretty strong philosophy that I have in life though, that
Speaker 1: has worked out okay for me, is that if you
Speaker 1: take your instruction from the absolute experts in any field
Speaker 1: and and they set the bar for entry for you,
Speaker 1: you will likely be intimidated and never even get into that.
Speaker 1: Like I'm I am a master at very few things,
Speaker 1: but good enough at a quite a bit of stuff,
Speaker 1: and trimming trimming mule feet would be one of the
Speaker 1: things that UM not a master at, but good enough,
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, there's so much that I think
Speaker 1: people get ung up and uh, details that really aren't
Speaker 1: the limiting factor of their entry point in the summer
Speaker 1: in the bars a lot lower. And but obviously you're
Speaker 1: gonna go to the experts to learn how to do stuff,
Speaker 1: you see what I'm saying. Yeah, and it's paralysis of
Speaker 1: fear right there, like, oh, I'm gonna make a mistake,
Speaker 1: and so I'm not even gonna try. And you gotta
Speaker 1: try some I mean, you gotta get in there some
Speaker 1: way and do it. And in your case, man, if
Speaker 1: if you got in a situation where you go a
Speaker 1: little too thin and then all of a sudden you
Speaker 1: got a bum foot on your mule, you're gonna feel
Speaker 1: like crap, and you're gonna be ultra careful. But it's
Speaker 1: not it's not gonna lead into this. They call that
Speaker 1: quicken a horse or mule. I've done it one time
Speaker 1: and and is he just had a sore foot for
Speaker 1: about two weeks And yeah, I learned from it. And
Speaker 1: you makes me sad, right right, And you're way more
Speaker 1: careful than next time, but it isn't. The world didn't end.
Speaker 1: I didn't have to shoot the mule, didn't have to
Speaker 1: write Steve, what are your thoughts on this? These type
Speaker 1: of these type of people that like the enthusiast groups sensitive,
Speaker 1: touchy enthusiast groups. I'm less excited about telling you now
Speaker 1: that you gave the fairier example because I would not
Speaker 1: put fairiers in the touchy enthusiast group things. But a
Speaker 1: lot of things like like bee keeping. Now, this is
Speaker 1: gonna insolt all your beekeepers out there. Not that opposed
Speaker 1: to be keeping. In fact, my brother, my brother Danny,
Speaker 1: one time saw be tree open, which is probably bad,
Speaker 1: but we're clearing a lot. We're clearing a lot, saw
Speaker 1: to be tree open. Tree had to go. Anyway, did
Speaker 1: you get the honey well kind of it was. It
Speaker 1: was we didn't do it, like we didn't get like
Speaker 1: a centrifuge out and like get it out. But we
Speaker 1: damned had some bar and chain oil in there. It
Speaker 1: was like we're in high school. Um. Anyways, it is
Speaker 1: apologies to everyone. It's like a little endy to have
Speaker 1: some bees. So why do you think we have them?
Speaker 1: So it's like a new thing and you have people
Speaker 1: that previously probably didn't have a strong identity and now
Speaker 1: they've found an identity. Okay, they found an identity. Um,
Speaker 1: they used to just be like a person that they're like,
Speaker 1: they have some shows they like and they like to
Speaker 1: drink certain things, and then all of a sudden they
Speaker 1: get like they identify, like they make twenty batches of beer,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, now they have an identity
Speaker 1: and it impacts them deeply. When you're getting that kind
Speaker 1: of feedback, you're getting feedback from people who have made
Speaker 1: a new identity. If so, you don't think any of
Speaker 1: these comments are coming from people who have been keeping
Speaker 1: bees for decades, maybe in our gate keeping and kind
Speaker 1: of like, nope, stay out of my lane. If you had,
Speaker 1: if you let's say you had a video where you're like,
Speaker 1: here's how I've decided to um feed lot cattle this
Speaker 1: song or fatten my cattle. Do you think that a
Speaker 1: guy who's been in the cattle fatten in business for
Speaker 1: six generations, biggest cattle fattener in Kansas, is he gonna care?
Speaker 1: Is he gonna be like, No, Clay, I find that
Speaker 1: when I'm fattening cattle. No, Yeah, he's gonna be He's
Speaker 1: just like, he's like, I don't who cares. He's like,
Speaker 1: this is a guy that's gonna fail, and people who
Speaker 1: don't know how to fatten cattle. You know, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna go into detail, but yesterday we were discussing plan
Speaker 1: to get Steve uh an alternate identity on the internet
Speaker 1: just so he can make comments like these because I
Speaker 1: have to. Yeah, but here's the thing too, and then
Speaker 1: I'm done. I'm done about this whole thing. Yesterday, uh
Speaker 1: our dinner guest, dinner mate, whatever you call him, was
Speaker 1: saying how uh online haters are always unsuccessful. They're unsuccessed,
Speaker 1: us from unfulfilled in some way. I wonder I like
Speaker 1: statements like this because well, no, no, no, I like
Speaker 1: like definitive statements that probably aren't entirely true. But that statement, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you have to define what successful is.
Speaker 1: But yeah, its people hating on the internet. It's a
Speaker 1: tough it's a tough crowd to diagnose in terms of like,
Speaker 1: what's their motivation? Do you guys want to hear a
Speaker 1: quick T shirt idea? Let's do it. Cat Honeybee sitting
Speaker 1: there on trunk of clover maybe with a bird dog
Speaker 1: on full point on the honeybee trimming mule foot and
Speaker 1: it says uh and it says ste sensitive, touchy enthusiasm. Okay,
Speaker 1: I like it. I like it. I like it. Well,
Speaker 1: I just thought I would bring that up because I'm
Speaker 1: gonna keep trimming my mule feet. I've got to just
Speaker 1: got no choice Korean to do it. Put it out there.
Speaker 1: I imagine you got you got like the stall for
Speaker 1: holding their feet up and stuff, so you're not just
Speaker 1: bent over the whole time. Man. I'm just I'm doing
Speaker 1: like a lot of farriers to do. Just put it
Speaker 1: up in between your legs and work it. The farriers
Speaker 1: are bad backs, buddy. Yeah, yeah, I don't. It's not
Speaker 1: like I'm doing it every day, you know, once every
Speaker 1: couple of months. You know what, Clay, I gotta tell
Speaker 1: you one last thing about that that I saw that
Speaker 1: video and are you going to join the criticism? I
Speaker 1: don't know, Like I have zero opinions on the subject
Speaker 1: other than that, like, I have two friends that do that,
Speaker 1: but they're watching them do it. But I was watching
Speaker 1: and it looked to me such confidence and fluidity. Because
Speaker 1: I thought it must not be you. I thought it
Speaker 1: must be you filming your ferrier. At first I was like, oh, Clay,
Speaker 1: he is doing this to a horse's foot, And then uh,
Speaker 1: I was like that, I can't be Clay. He's never
Speaker 1: said about how he's never said he's like way into that.
Speaker 1: And I was like, man, if you watched if you
Speaker 1: watched a real fairier, they would they would be like
Speaker 1: so much more. And that's what the guys that we're
Speaker 1: hacking on me. One guy was like, yeah, I remember
Speaker 1: what my first beer was. Like that was his literal quote,
Speaker 1: Like like he could say like, yeah, you hadn't done
Speaker 1: this that much, which is true. You know, the tone
Speaker 1: of the converence, you know, the tone of the comment,
Speaker 1: like maybe it'd be different if it were just like
Speaker 1: some Instagram for something a little more encouraging. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: guys like some pointers, maybe some you know education shut.
Speaker 1: That is my favorite part though. It's like, if you
Speaker 1: are the authority, here is a beautiful opportunity to interact
Speaker 1: with a bunch of people and give them something to
Speaker 1: go home with out of the whole depth of experience
Speaker 1: that you have packed into your brain. But instead what
Speaker 1: you say is go f yourself right and It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: so is that going to make people gravitate towards your
Speaker 1: intelligence to come find you the authority on this subject.
Speaker 1: It's like, Nope, Nope, nobody wants. Nobody wants to have
Speaker 1: your grump spread around. Right. Meanwhile, Clay, who's not the
Speaker 1: end point of experience on the the hoof Triman scale,
Speaker 1: He's gonna have a line out the front door because
Speaker 1: he's a nice person. He's gonna take the time to
Speaker 1: talk to you. My wife thinks hoof Triman is extremely gross.
Speaker 1: She oh, she just she watched me do it one time.
Speaker 1: And it does smell like it has a smell. It's
Speaker 1: not a necessarily a bad smell. It's just a distinct
Speaker 1: like nail. Yeah, Like when you like grind to burn
Speaker 1: hair cut bone with the saw, you have that bone smell.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like that. Um, real real quick, you
Speaker 1: you need to you need to shod horses when they're
Speaker 1: like particularly when they're gonna be traveling on rocky ground. Right. Um,
Speaker 1: go back to the American West two years ago, where
Speaker 1: people are traveling long distances, they're away from any kind
Speaker 1: of settlements civilizations. Are they just not doing it? I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously the the like the uh, horse mounted planes, Indian
Speaker 1: hunters riding unshot horses, but they're on rocky. That's a
Speaker 1: that's a that is a question that I've never really
Speaker 1: heard someone concisely answered. But I'll tell you my understanding
Speaker 1: of it. In modern times, the modern breeding of our horses,
Speaker 1: they pretty much have to be shot if they're going
Speaker 1: to be used extensively. Just a hoofst ructure. They just
Speaker 1: stayed together, their feet stayed together so much better if
Speaker 1: they're shot. Like so those guys might have just burned
Speaker 1: them out quicker. Yep, I think so. And you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're talking about the planes Indians and
Speaker 1: the horses that they had, I mean they were consciously
Speaker 1: or unconsciously selectively breeding four animals that had strong hoofs.
Speaker 1: You know, but obviously while the horses didn't weren't shod.
Speaker 1: But you know, there are some horses that I mean
Speaker 1: can't even walk through a flat pasture without shoes on
Speaker 1: and uh, and it's just their structure. Yeah, just like
Speaker 1: just like there's also you know, some people say if
Speaker 1: you never shoe them, you know, you don't you kind
Speaker 1: of buy shooing them. You're creating a process that you
Speaker 1: have to continue, kind of like us wearing shoes, Like
Speaker 1: if you never wore shoes, you wouldn't need shoes. There's
Speaker 1: a fine line, and a lot of it has to
Speaker 1: do with the specifics of that animal. But that's also
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I love mules is for what
Speaker 1: I do with mules. I pretty much never have to
Speaker 1: shoot him. Now. I was in Arizona two weeks ago
Speaker 1: with Warner Glenn out there, and they have to shod
Speaker 1: their mules all the time just because they're walking on
Speaker 1: uh maupie mau piss volcanic rock all the time constantly,
Speaker 1: So I mean they're Warner told me, he said, yeah, mule,
Speaker 1: you could ride an unshot mule in this country for
Speaker 1: one day and then you'd have to put it up
Speaker 1: in a stall for two days, and then you could
Speaker 1: ride it again on the fourth day, you know. And
Speaker 1: so they shoot them all and don't have any trouble.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the whole shoeing things pretty well. It's really interesting.
Speaker 1: You can read some stuff about like rawhide um foot
Speaker 1: protection for for horses back in the day. That's a
Speaker 1: that's a real thing. I've read some references to it,
Speaker 1: but I don't know, but I think the burnout factor
Speaker 1: is a huge one because you read about the size
Speaker 1: of the horse herds for a lot of the planes tribes,
Speaker 1: we're immense, you know, immense ements. So I don't I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody was our our idea of having
Speaker 1: an animal like that's my go to. I don't think
Speaker 1: it was the thing. Man. I gotta say this before
Speaker 1: we start talking about Jerry Clower bringing up warrener Glenn
Speaker 1: and mules. Warrener Glenn, eighty six years old, lives in
Speaker 1: the Arizona Cowboy Dry ground line hunter. We hunted with
Speaker 1: him for four days, and in the on the first day,
Speaker 1: we rode in stuff that was the most treacherous, like
Speaker 1: the wildest mule stuff I've ever been in, pretty much
Speaker 1: by far. And you're going out with this eighty six
Speaker 1: year old man and you think, yeah, I've never ridden
Speaker 1: with him extensively. So I was like, we're probably gonna
Speaker 1: kind of go easier places just based upon the man's age.
Speaker 1: And there were a bunch of us because there was
Speaker 1: a through there and at one point the dogs went
Speaker 1: over this big mountain and Warner said, Okay, y'all go
Speaker 1: around and me and Clay are gonna go just follow
Speaker 1: the dogs. And so we went up something that was
Speaker 1: just wildly steep boulders, limbs, just it was the most
Speaker 1: treacherous half mile a mule ride and I've ever done.
Speaker 1: That night, when we got back home over dinner, I said,
Speaker 1: I said, Mr Warner, on a scale one to ten,
Speaker 1: one being riding down a gravel flat gravel road, ten
Speaker 1: being the absolute hardest mule ride you've ever done in
Speaker 1: your life, what did we do today? And he said,
Speaker 1: I was about eight or nine. He said if he
Speaker 1: he said, the reason being, if it was any worse,
Speaker 1: you just couldn't have gone. And what he said to me,
Speaker 1: and I'll never forget it, and and I kind of
Speaker 1: would have known this, but by him saying it, it
Speaker 1: kind of stamped it on me. He just said, if
Speaker 1: your mule will go, just ride it and go. He said,
Speaker 1: your mule will tell you when it's too much. And
Speaker 1: I mean pretty much you're limited by just where that
Speaker 1: animal will go. If you spur it and it goes,
Speaker 1: it's not gonna get itself into a situation that's gonna
Speaker 1: hurt it. Now, it could hurt you. You could fall off,
Speaker 1: you could get raked off by a limb, you could,
Speaker 1: you know, bad stuff could happen to you, but that
Speaker 1: animal is gonna be all right. So it was a
Speaker 1: pretty pretty exciting time. So you can't spur a mule
Speaker 1: off a cliff's edge, That's right. That's why they that's
Speaker 1: that's their whole thing. Uh. Have you've done much writing
Speaker 1: at night? A little bit? Not, probably not as much
Speaker 1: as uh some of these guys coming way back from
Speaker 1: back country. Yeah, I mean that's that's a wild wild thing. Man.
Speaker 1: It's not having your light on. Yeah, so you don't
Speaker 1: don't have your head lamp on so the mule can
Speaker 1: see better. And yeah, you get that like feeling of
Speaker 1: floating sometimes and you're just like super dark knights and
Speaker 1: cross river up and down drainages and they're all all
Speaker 1: they're doing is heading for home, and they kind of
Speaker 1: quicken up the pace the closer you get, and it's
Speaker 1: it's pretty wild, but you get some real real confidence
Speaker 1: in them. Yeah. But there's also those zones with low
Speaker 1: hanging branches. Yeah, that's that's treacherous. Speaking of mules, Jerry
Speaker 1: Cloward loved mules. He was transition, he was he was
Speaker 1: big into mules mule. Yeah, yeah, he had he had
Speaker 1: the He had the one where he was with a
Speaker 1: New York City music executive and he shot the mule
Speaker 1: Uncle Versy's mule. He was laid by twenty six crops
Speaker 1: with her. Yeah yeah, Okay, So we've been we've been
Speaker 1: doing a two part series on the cultural impact of
Speaker 1: the book where the Red Friend Grows and the way
Speaker 1: that I described it was it was that one time
Speaker 1: that coon hunting, this super niche small scale hunting related thing,
Speaker 1: did a three sixty slam dunk on pop culture made
Speaker 1: him love it, all right, that's the truth. I mean
Speaker 1: that that book is just so widespread to this day,
Speaker 1: used across the country and urban areas. Always thought it
Speaker 1: was kind of a regional phenomena because you know, I
Speaker 1: live about an hour from Talaqua, where that book happens.
Speaker 1: So we we did that. Somebody wrote me and I
Speaker 1: got to give him credit, and I don't even know
Speaker 1: who it was, and said, hey, you gotta do something
Speaker 1: on Jerry Clower and I don't want to. We could
Speaker 1: get into the details of how I know about Jerry Cloud,
Speaker 1: which we will. We will. Steve has a few things
Speaker 1: to say, but very quickly what I what I so
Speaker 1: the render. Part of the render is seeing behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of the Burgers podcast. We didn't have this planned
Speaker 1: out for a long time. If we had, I'd had
Speaker 1: my friend Steve Ronella talk about Jerry Cloward because apparently
Speaker 1: he an expert on Jerry clouer. Um. We put this
Speaker 1: together relatively quickly, and so my friend Isaac Neil, who
Speaker 1: who helps me with some burglary stuff. I was in
Speaker 1: Arizona and I said, Isaac, when I come home on Monday,
Speaker 1: I have got to have an expert about Jerry Cloud.
Speaker 1: That I I mean, I gotta get an audio recording
Speaker 1: in like two days from when I get home. When
Speaker 1: I got he was messaging me and what He scoured
Speaker 1: the internet, called Jerry's old manager and couldn't get in
Speaker 1: touch with him, and so he called the The City
Speaker 1: council office of Liberty, Mississippi, calls him on the phone
Speaker 1: City Council and he tells them, Hey, we're trying to
Speaker 1: find a Jerry Cloud expert. They give him the cell
Speaker 1: phone number of the Mayor of Liberty, Mississippi, which he
Speaker 1: calls and leaves a message with the Mayor of Liberty, Mississippi.
Speaker 1: Within three hours, he gets a call from from John
Speaker 1: on Newman, Jerry Clower's neighbor from East Fork, Mississippi. Jerry
Speaker 1: lived in East Fork and uh and so so Isaac's
Speaker 1: like Clay. We got Jerry Clower's neighbor. And I hadn't
Speaker 1: talked to John, so I didn't know much about him.
Speaker 1: I said, you know, what's he like? Is he is
Speaker 1: he excited to do this? Like what's the extent of
Speaker 1: his knowledge of Jerry? And you know, he said, man,
Speaker 1: he seems pretty legit, pretty excited. And so I called
Speaker 1: John and just deep Southern accent, just like Jerry. You know.
Speaker 1: I find these regions have obviously, like a Mississippi, Mississippi
Speaker 1: accident would sound a certain way. If you're from Arkansas,
Speaker 1: you sound a certain way. But it's very regional. One time, Steve,
Speaker 1: you would like this story. When I was in college,
Speaker 1: the first day of some big college class, when you're
Speaker 1: in this big auditorium, I sat down in the seat
Speaker 1: and I heard a guy two chairs behind me talking
Speaker 1: and I turned around. I didn't look at it. I
Speaker 1: didn't know who he was. I turned around and I said,
Speaker 1: you're from Gordon, Arkansas, And he was from Gurdon, Arkansas,
Speaker 1: and I'd recognized his accent in a heartbeat because I
Speaker 1: had a friend from Grdon, Arkansas. Just immediately I picked
Speaker 1: it up. I say that to say, the accent of
Speaker 1: the South is varied, extremely varied, and but not when
Speaker 1: you're a Yankee. Yeah yeah, maybe so maybe so you're
Speaker 1: from down there. Yeah yeah, no, I get I see
Speaker 1: what you're saying. But east Fork, Mississippi, it was eight
Speaker 1: hours from my house. So I drove to east Fork, Mississippi,
Speaker 1: met John Newman, and uh, can I give it just
Speaker 1: a little bit of color commentary on Uh, Liberty, Mississippi.
Speaker 1: Seven would be the population. So the mayor is the
Speaker 1: mayor of what is known as a micropolitan twelve miles
Speaker 1: east of McComb, Mississippi. I think McComb, Mississippi, as Jerry
Speaker 1: says it is, the is the big town. Um. But
Speaker 1: Liberty is the county seat of Amity. Nope, a mitt
Speaker 1: Amen River swamps A river? Am I t emphasis on
Speaker 1: the a A mitt river? Yeah, so a lot, a
Speaker 1: lot of Jerry Clowder stuff takes place in the Amat
Speaker 1: River swamps. Yes. So, Steve, what was what's your connection
Speaker 1: to Jerry Clowder? You know. I thought about it long
Speaker 1: and hard after Could I first tell my problem? Yes,
Speaker 1: my problem is I I like, right when I knew
Speaker 1: you liked hunting raccoons, I was telling you listen to
Speaker 1: Jerry cloud y'all listen to Jerry Clower. Now listen. Did
Speaker 1: you think I was listening to Jerry Clower before you
Speaker 1: were born? So remember when you were talking about the
Speaker 1: fact that the fact that you would do the Jerry
Speaker 1: Clower thing, and and not even and I would have
Speaker 1: to find out about it through Phil. I can see
Speaker 1: how that would be really hurt. So I'll tell you
Speaker 1: the first Okay, I thought about it, like, what was
Speaker 1: my initial Jerry clowd touch point? Was this I could
Speaker 1: actually put I could go back home and conduct some interviews,
Speaker 1: and I could probably find out the exact year because
Speaker 1: I know where my bus stop was at the time.
Speaker 1: My bus stop was one mile from my house. And
Speaker 1: it was can you do this in a Jerry one
Speaker 1: from I will you need three compass directions one mile
Speaker 1: east of where Duff Road and Strail Road came together. Okay?
Speaker 1: It was yeah, I can do all that you could
Speaker 1: if you had time triangulation. It was we had to
Speaker 1: walk that far to the bus stop because they didn't
Speaker 1: they needed to have a certain amount of visual clearance
Speaker 1: down the roads, and apparently so for a while they
Speaker 1: moved our bus stop to a horrible fire away spot.
Speaker 1: The reason I say this I heard of Jerry Clower's
Speaker 1: story and it was the one he tells about the
Speaker 1: little boy out on a moped or something and a
Speaker 1: brand new I can't remember what car, like some sports
Speaker 1: car pulls up next to him and the little boy
Speaker 1: is like so curious about the car. The owner of
Speaker 1: the car rolls the window down and the boys got
Speaker 1: his nose there and he's smelling the new leather and
Speaker 1: he's just so blown away in and the light turns green,
Speaker 1: and the motors decided to impress the little boy and
Speaker 1: just gun it out of the intersection. So he peels
Speaker 1: rubber out of the intersection heads down the road, and
Speaker 1: a while later, in his rearview mirror, he sees his
Speaker 1: little boy overtaking him on the moped and foom past him,
Speaker 1: And a little while later he comes back to the
Speaker 1: other direction, Poom passes him, and while they're here, he
Speaker 1: sees him coming agains like, how's that boy going that fast?
Speaker 1: And smashed into the car and the guy gets out.
Speaker 1: He's like, Oh, is there anything I can do I
Speaker 1: for you? I'm so and he's like, yes, sir, you
Speaker 1: can unhook my suspenders from the rear from the side
Speaker 1: of you mirror. So uh, and I remember going down
Speaker 1: to the bus stop. You were tickled by that one.
Speaker 1: When you remember going down to that bust that bus
Speaker 1: stop in that spot and telling people about it and
Speaker 1: what it was was. My mom had been raised in
Speaker 1: in in in a farm area outside of Chicago that
Speaker 1: became like now it's like a big Chicago subdivision in Naperville.
Speaker 1: I think, Uh, she's a w g N listener because
Speaker 1: she's like Chicago Cubs. Even when she moved four or
Speaker 1: five hours away from Chicago up into Michigan, she would
Speaker 1: do anything possible to try to get w g N.
Speaker 1: So I grew up with w g N always playing.
Speaker 1: She liked the Cubs games all that Cloud used to go.
Speaker 1: So this would have been in the I was born
Speaker 1: in seventy four. This has been like late seventies, early eighties.
Speaker 1: Cloud would go on w g N. Tell a story
Speaker 1: now and then no one like we knew about him.
Speaker 1: No one knew about him as a point. It wasn't
Speaker 1: like a thing is like, we had a very like
Speaker 1: specific entry into Cloud, but we liked them a lot.
Speaker 1: So we probably had the eight tracks at a time,
Speaker 1: but we had like Jerry Clowder cassette tapes in the
Speaker 1: car and my parents would find this stuff and buy
Speaker 1: it and we would listen to Cloud. And then even
Speaker 1: in all through like high school, all through college, within
Speaker 1: my like immediate group of friends, we would make Clouder
Speaker 1: references all the time. Yeah, if we were describing a
Speaker 1: tree that did you'd be like, there wasn't a limb
Speaker 1: on it for a while, right, Yeah, And like we
Speaker 1: had all these Clowder jokes we would run. Later, when
Speaker 1: I was in graduate school, this guy there's this novelist
Speaker 1: from Mississippi named Larry Brown from Oxford, Mississippi, and he
Speaker 1: kind of like took me on his wing a little
Speaker 1: bit and we became buddies, would go drinking together and stuff.
Speaker 1: He actually passed away or had a heart attack when
Speaker 1: he was young. Um. I was like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: one day we're just talking and I said to Larry Brown,
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're from Mississippi. Have you ever heard of
Speaker 1: the guy Jerry Clower not only that he hung out
Speaker 1: with Jerry Clowder And that's what made me think that
Speaker 1: you like the Mississippi people, Southern people whatever, like somehow
Speaker 1: all know each other. And Larry Brown would talk about
Speaker 1: how he was friends with Jerry. We're talking about how
Speaker 1: Jerry had a rule for himself that he wouldn't tell
Speaker 1: a story on stage on a radio show, that he
Speaker 1: wouldn't stand, that he wouldn't feel comfortable standing up front
Speaker 1: of his church and tell him and what Clara died. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it wasn't too terribly much longer than that. Uh, Larry
Speaker 1: Brown died. Um, but that was the first person outside
Speaker 1: of my immediate circle that I ever encountered the knew
Speaker 1: who that guy was. So so my biggest question was
Speaker 1: how big of a national phenomena Jerry Clowd was because
Speaker 1: he was on the Grand Old Opry, which would have had,
Speaker 1: you know, a national presence, but he was. I talked
Speaker 1: to Dr Brooks Levins, who was kind of an Ozark's
Speaker 1: regional expert, and I just kind of pitched an email
Speaker 1: to him like, hey, what do you know any think
Speaker 1: about Jerry Clowd. He knows quite a bit about other
Speaker 1: Southern cultural related stuff. And his comment to me was
Speaker 1: that he felt like Clara was kind of a regional phenomena.
Speaker 1: And and you know, he acknowledged that he would have
Speaker 1: been known at the wider scale, but you know, obviously
Speaker 1: the hub of his the hub of his, his base
Speaker 1: was clearly the South. But Clara also talked about traveling
Speaker 1: up in the Northeast and telling stories. He actually in
Speaker 1: in one of the books that he has, a book
Speaker 1: called Stories from Home, and it really was just a
Speaker 1: transcription of a big long interview they did with him,
Speaker 1: and he talked about when he was in the South
Speaker 1: he could tell stories just real freely, without explanation of stuff,
Speaker 1: and when he was anywhere else he would his stories
Speaker 1: would be longer because he would say something like boiled
Speaker 1: okra and he would have to qualify it tree. Yeah,
Speaker 1: then he got where he had to explain the terms
Speaker 1: for everybody. Well and just here and you say that, you,
Speaker 1: I mean, I was surprised. I actually considered text in
Speaker 1: you that week that we were building this, which was
Speaker 1: just last week, and I was gonna say, do you
Speaker 1: know who Jerry Clowd is? And I do remember, I
Speaker 1: remember now you're telling me that yeah, yeah, I do
Speaker 1: remember you telling if you want to get if you
Speaker 1: want to increase the number. Like you might say to someone,
Speaker 1: do you know who Jerry Clowder is? They're gonna say no,
Speaker 1: then say to him this. Imagine back to when you
Speaker 1: were a kid. Do you remember a magic bait commercial
Speaker 1: in which a man said, it'll fling a craven on him.
Speaker 1: Speaking of magic the use of magic bait, will fling
Speaker 1: a craven on the catfish. That is Jerry Clowder. So
Speaker 1: he did a commercial for that company and it was
Speaker 1: like magic bait, It'll fling a craven on him. That's Jerry.
Speaker 1: That was Jerry Clowder's voice, and that will get a
Speaker 1: lot a lot of people be like, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 1: remember that. I'd be like, if you you're the guy,
Speaker 1: the milk guy Verne and all that, What the hell's
Speaker 1: that guy's name? I don't remember. Yeah, you can say like, hey,
Speaker 1: do you remember his name? He was born when a
Speaker 1: lot of your life happened. It sounds so funny too,
Speaker 1: because what you're talking about the intersection of the core
Speaker 1: demographic and where that core demographic overlaps with the magic
Speaker 1: catfish bait. I think you may be giving it too
Speaker 1: much credit because the widespread phenomena that had six people,
Speaker 1: I got it. Uh, buddy in in Alabama who is
Speaker 1: just like your classic soft spoken storytelling dude and his
Speaker 1: he knows that it just had giant repertoire Jerry Clower stories.
Speaker 1: But and he'll just like slow roll him out for you,
Speaker 1: you know, and their their first person stories, right, and
Speaker 1: so after the very first one, you're like, oh, I
Speaker 1: get it. This is not your story. Is just a
Speaker 1: good story. But there's a great one about this kind
Speaker 1: of wealth due gentleman. He's out there squirrel hunting, not
Speaker 1: doing very good, and here comes this this boy up
Speaker 1: the road is just obviously from from a lower class
Speaker 1: society right the other side of the tracks. And he's
Speaker 1: got a bunch of squirrels hanging from his belt but
Speaker 1: no gun or anything. And and he's a son. Looks
Speaker 1: like you're doing pretty good. And so yes, yes, sir, yes, sir.
Speaker 1: You know all Clowder stories are like very polite and
Speaker 1: uh talks, you know, addresses the squirrel squirrels on the
Speaker 1: kid's belt after giving him a spare apple, and they're
Speaker 1: there talking about, uh, the squirrel season, and he says, well, son,
Speaker 1: I see you don't have a gun. He says, no, sir,
Speaker 1: uh use a sling or or just slings Rocks said,
Speaker 1: And he said, I just chuck rocks, just chuck rocks
Speaker 1: at him. Yeah, And and pretty soon as squirrel presents
Speaker 1: itself and and and you guy says, son, why why
Speaker 1: don't you take a crack at that thing? And so
Speaker 1: I think, like left handed, he wings a rock up there,
Speaker 1: knocks squirrel off the tree, and ties another squirrel to
Speaker 1: his belt. And the gist of the story is it's like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: I and you're like you're a lefty to boot or
Speaker 1: something like that, and the kids like, oh no, sir, my,
Speaker 1: my papa won't let me use my right hand. I
Speaker 1: beat him up too much, he said, is he had
Speaker 1: those squirrels tucked up under his belt and it looked
Speaker 1: like a squirrel hula skirt. You know, I it had
Speaker 1: been a long time since I had listened to Jerry Clower,
Speaker 1: and when I was driving to Amtt County, Mississippi, I
Speaker 1: listened to NonStop on on Spotify and Amazon Music. They
Speaker 1: have Jerry Clower's greatest hits. They have um, Possums, Peaches
Speaker 1: and possums. So there's different albums and then they have
Speaker 1: clower power, so there's three albums. There's some deep cuts
Speaker 1: on Spotify too though, or maybe no, you can find
Speaker 1: some deep cuts maybe on YouTube. But I feel like
Speaker 1: there's some deep cuts on can say there's there's more.
Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying hidden gems? Yeah? Yeah, deep
Speaker 1: cuts is like a term for stuff no one knows
Speaker 1: about besides B sides and music. I was actually kind
Speaker 1: of surprised to find it so easily on these main plats.
Speaker 1: Amazing that it's out there. Yeah, yeah, I listen to
Speaker 1: ask the guys that Spotify. I bet they're not aware.
Speaker 1: If you went to the if you met like the
Speaker 1: CEO Spotify, really, you know, I appreciate you guys got
Speaker 1: some clower up. There's gonna be like, oh yeah, that
Speaker 1: was negotiations all the way from the top. Um. I
Speaker 1: think it's all those stories are so like wholesome that
Speaker 1: it's it's due for resurgence, right, Like all I do
Speaker 1: is read up to date, like periodical all all day,
Speaker 1: every day, and it's it's amazing, like how stories like
Speaker 1: that now triggers such an emotional response because everything else
Speaker 1: like you have to suck all the emotion out of
Speaker 1: it just to get through and be like, oh, a
Speaker 1: bunch of people dying, but you know the environment getting destroyed. Uh,
Speaker 1: And then you're like, he's actually right handed. I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it. You know. There there were a couple
Speaker 1: of things that that did stand out to me. I
Speaker 1: never really thought I would have never thought of Klower
Speaker 1: as intentionally like a clean comedian. I mean like we
Speaker 1: just listened to him, and it's just kind of like
Speaker 1: who he was. You didn't compare him up against somebody
Speaker 1: who is different than him. Klower overlap with George Carlin,
Speaker 1: Richard Pryor, all right. I mean folks that started they
Speaker 1: were the ones who started cussing. Yeah. Yeah, Well, I
Speaker 1: I appreciated well going back in and reading his and
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's the most in depth, but
Speaker 1: you know that book Stories from Home, Like he made
Speaker 1: a very intentional decision. And I said it on the
Speaker 1: podcast because I've I value stuff like that when somebody
Speaker 1: has a has a strategy that is against the trend
Speaker 1: and they just do that strategy. And he he said
Speaker 1: that some of somebody at Hollywood exact or somebody that
Speaker 1: was you know over him said hey, man, you're you're
Speaker 1: gonna have to be more risk ay if you want
Speaker 1: to be nationally known. And in his words quote he said,
Speaker 1: I defied them, you know, and he uh and he
Speaker 1: just stuck with who he was. You know, he didn't
Speaker 1: he did. He didn't let it change him. And that's
Speaker 1: what I appreciate is he he didn't let it change him.
Speaker 1: And man, that is what. Yeah. You know, I talked
Speaker 1: to John Newman for like two hours and you probably
Speaker 1: heard maybe twenty six minutes of John Newman talking about Jerry,
Speaker 1: and the main thing that he wanted to tell me
Speaker 1: it was just what an incredible guy Jerry was just
Speaker 1: as a neighbor and a friend, and the things he
Speaker 1: would do for you in private. So I mean, he
Speaker 1: was just this genuine guy, but clearly a comedic genius.
Speaker 1: And what I I asked John, I said, I said,
Speaker 1: do you think Jerry was? And I knew the answer
Speaker 1: to this. I just kind of want to see what
Speaker 1: he would say. I said, how is Jerry influenced by
Speaker 1: the people around him? And I know the answer because
Speaker 1: I know the way that I talk and tell stories
Speaker 1: is a hundred percent. I mean I could track, I
Speaker 1: could point it back to the people in different things
Speaker 1: that I do that. I mean, it's not like I'm
Speaker 1: trying to imitate them. Just you hear someone talk, can
Speaker 1: you hear someone tell a story? And it's just that
Speaker 1: communication style you identify with it, and then you kind
Speaker 1: of adopted in and recognize that it. It's like it's effective,
Speaker 1: it's a it's an effective way, it's an even even
Speaker 1: a cultural way to do something. And so you create this,
Speaker 1: you know, inside of your personality in the way you communicate,
Speaker 1: you tell stories. Man, Jerry had to have been surrounded
Speaker 1: by some big characters down there in the South. John
Speaker 1: didn't really he you know, he just said, you know
Speaker 1: a lot of Jerry's stuff was just natural, and which
Speaker 1: it certainly was, and he kind of came up with
Speaker 1: his own unique style. But man, I guarantee you those
Speaker 1: guys down there that's they told stories like that and
Speaker 1: the other thing. And I'd like to hear you guys
Speaker 1: thoughts on it. Jerry is the one who said he
Speaker 1: said I'm not a comedian. Uh well no, no, don't no, no.
Speaker 1: Somebody said Jerry wasn't as much a comedian as he
Speaker 1: was a humorist. And then the quote from Jerry Cloud
Speaker 1: was he said, I don't tell funny stories. I tell
Speaker 1: stories funny and I know that I know that that exists,
Speaker 1: but I completely disagree. I mean, he did tell funny stories,
Speaker 1: but I think what he was talking about was he
Speaker 1: always had the hook and the part of the story
Speaker 1: that was really funny, which was a funny story, but
Speaker 1: all the stuff up until that, like I'm from East Fork,
Speaker 1: Mississippi and Amit County and dada da da da da
Speaker 1: da da dada. I mean, like he's just that's not
Speaker 1: funny stuff. But he told it funny. I think that's
Speaker 1: what he meant. You know, I got you, but he
Speaker 1: like there's an interview where I can't remember it was
Speaker 1: Larry David or Jerry Seinfeld talking about the writing of
Speaker 1: Seinfeld Okay, and that they eventually realized that when someone
Speaker 1: goes somewhere, like you can't have a scene in a
Speaker 1: bowling alley because something needs to happen there, because they
Speaker 1: have to be in the bowling alley for a funny reason,
Speaker 1: and then something funny can happen at the bowling alley.
Speaker 1: Everybody has to be somewhere for a funny reason, right,
Speaker 1: You don't just haven't set for no reason in the
Speaker 1: bowling alley so that someone can meet someone's mom. It's
Speaker 1: like they go to the bowling alley for and if
Speaker 1: you if you watch, curb your enthusiasm. Everywhere they go
Speaker 1: like they're already there for a funny reason, and then
Speaker 1: something funny happens, like Clower. I mean, probably my favorite
Speaker 1: Clower story is the the guy that uses the monkey
Speaker 1: to hunt raccoons, the monkey with the pistol in the flashlight. Okay,
Speaker 1: like they're out there's a funny punch line. But they're
Speaker 1: out in the swamp for a funny reason because the
Speaker 1: guy is like, I can hunt. I could kill more
Speaker 1: coons than anybody with this monkey than anyone with a dog. Right,
Speaker 1: So they're out in the swamp for a funny reason.
Speaker 1: Like he follows and he was doing his way before
Speaker 1: those guys are doing it. But I'm saying, like he
Speaker 1: follows the road map of comedy. Yeah, well he did it.
Speaker 1: He's like it's like he is h he's pioneering for sure,
Speaker 1: but he's definitely like like has a hole. He's like
Speaker 1: a honed craft. He's got a different approach though too. Okay,
Speaker 1: and I touched on this a bit last night. But
Speaker 1: it's like it's like a fable, right, and he starts
Speaker 1: with like the basis of something, and he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: but wouldn't it be funny if it happened like this?
Speaker 1: And this is the end result. When Norm McDonald passed away,
Speaker 1: I was watching a lot of Norm McDonald. I'm still
Speaker 1: I'm still, I'm still doing it. And if, like Conan
Speaker 1: O'Brien posted this thing, is like the funniest guest was
Speaker 1: Norm McDonald and and he laboriously tells this joke and
Speaker 1: and it's it's a joke that you've heard in some
Speaker 1: way before, and it's like a fly walks into um
Speaker 1: like a barber shop, and it's telling telling the barber
Speaker 1: about all the bad things in his life and everything,
Speaker 1: and and the barber is find like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: next door is the therapist office. He says, I know,
Speaker 1: and he keeps telling him about it, and he said, no,
Speaker 1: the next door is the therapist office. He said, why
Speaker 1: are you in the barbershop and he said, well, because
Speaker 1: he had the light on. So it's a moth, right,
Speaker 1: it was a moth. But Norm McDonald tells it on
Speaker 1: live TV and as if the whole other world only
Speaker 1: showed up to hear this, like whatever story of his,
Speaker 1: and it's so belabored and it is. It is one
Speaker 1: of the funniest, funniest things I've seen in the telling.
Speaker 1: And so Clouer kind of you know, it wasn't his joke.
Speaker 1: He just built up the world around the world around it.
Speaker 1: And so Clower like everybody's heard this anecdotal joke. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I always say, you know, a couple of
Speaker 1: guys sitting around and oh, a nice shot. Another guy
Speaker 1: turns around and goes, should see me with my right hand?
Speaker 1: See me with my left hand? Right? And it's like,
Speaker 1: that is the joke. We've all heard it a good
Speaker 1: jillion times, but you put it in the context like
Speaker 1: two people from different worlds out in the squirrel woods
Speaker 1: bump into each other, have this moment together, and then
Speaker 1: should see me with my right hand? Yeah? He yeah,
Speaker 1: he like could dress up, he could take like a
Speaker 1: simple joke and dress it up and put it in
Speaker 1: an eight minute context. But like the one I wrenched earlier,
Speaker 1: that the suspender thing that's not telling a story funny, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a kid who got to suspend. It's like it
Speaker 1: is funny. Yeah, yeah, that was for sure. And a
Speaker 1: monkey with Ashly isn't telling the story time though he
Speaker 1: I mean, he covers both. He's such a musical performer too.
Speaker 1: He's he's very dynamic. Is the highs are high and
Speaker 1: the lows are low, and you have to kind of
Speaker 1: strain to listen. He draws you in and pushes you
Speaker 1: away and brings you back in. Norm McDonald, who's you know,
Speaker 1: incredibly funny as perfect timing. He's not dynamic in that way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's very dead pand that funny. Yeah, I got you.
Speaker 1: I just realized the two things I need to tell you.
Speaker 1: You can get around to mean when you want, but
Speaker 1: to help me remember mccullach, chainsaws yea and details but
Speaker 1: say whatever you want. Remember I was just gonna say
Speaker 1: I wanted to make a whole section about it on
Speaker 1: the podcast. But his sound effects, he when I listened
Speaker 1: to him, like, I start to laugh inside every time
Speaker 1: he goes whoa. He kind of has a growling man
Speaker 1: in that coon that I mean, you know, you just
Speaker 1: can't replicate at and you could tell it was so
Speaker 1: natural and it was the most fascinating thing. And I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have known this about Clower. You know that he
Speaker 1: he was forty five years old. He was a fertilizer
Speaker 1: salesman from Mississippi Chemical and it was just a funny guy.
Speaker 1: I mean, he had built a whole life, a whole
Speaker 1: life as just this country salesman. He sounded that such
Speaker 1: a joyful spirit, and maybe for all of those decades
Speaker 1: of his life he soaked up a whole lot. I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't grow up in a chicken coop.
Speaker 1: I grew up in a concrete box, and I had
Speaker 1: not heard of somebody doesn't just show up in New
Speaker 1: York City crib And just to follow up on that,
Speaker 1: I I My favorite part of the podcast Clay was
Speaker 1: listening to Brent Reeves recall him their meeting. He sounded
Speaker 1: so wistful, he emotional. He remembered every tiny detail. You're
Speaker 1: a pretty boy. I'll never forget. That's the thing you
Speaker 1: cannot say to something, that you are a pretty boy.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I'm taking off. Uh what what was
Speaker 1: your thought? Had you ever heard a joke on now?
Speaker 1: I had not? Um and my yeah, my yeah, totally surprising, right.
Speaker 1: My first interaction with his comedy was listening to your
Speaker 1: episode yesterday, which I had to pause right and to
Speaker 1: go play the chainsaw Monkey, to play the motor Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was cackling. I mean it was just his his delivery,
Speaker 1: his spirit. It just hearing him was so feel good
Speaker 1: and so funny. I I was driving while listening, and
Speaker 1: it was probably a dangerous situation because his the Okrah
Speaker 1: line about it so much that just people and were
Speaker 1: too just it's I don't know, you know, the delivery,
Speaker 1: the energy that everything, even if not necessarily relatable. He
Speaker 1: it seemed maybe after you know, starting late in his life,
Speaker 1: that he perhaps had already h solidified to a great
Speaker 1: degree his confidence in himself, his sense of who he was,
Speaker 1: and that his comedy was maybe so good because it
Speaker 1: was him being him and and and relaying stories in
Speaker 1: a funny way, or funny stories from the entirety and
Speaker 1: the breath of his experience. I just found it so delightful,
Speaker 1: you know, him being to our dinner guest last night.
Speaker 1: He was a comedian. He said that confidence is such
Speaker 1: an important part comedy, just being confident in who you are.
Speaker 1: And at forty five, after dealing with you know, all
Speaker 1: these farmers, for all these years go on and selling
Speaker 1: chemicals and and selling fertilizer like he was. He knew
Speaker 1: who he was. I think when he stepped in the
Speaker 1: show biz, it was just a matter of shifting a
Speaker 1: few things around and just kind of being who he was.
Speaker 1: You know. That's what was so cool about him. Business
Speaker 1: is a beautiful thing too, because he's like here, you
Speaker 1: walk into any Cooper right and be like, I know
Speaker 1: you need what I'm selling? Yeah, do you want to
Speaker 1: buy it for me? I bet. There's some stories all
Speaker 1: over the south of him, uh, you know, in his
Speaker 1: role of well of people, stories of him as the salesman. Hey, lastly,
Speaker 1: well we'll go, we'll end with your chainsaw stuff. But
Speaker 1: and details real quick. I was. I was very glad
Speaker 1: to I would not have known about Jerry's positions on
Speaker 1: race in the seventies. I just looked it up. I
Speaker 1: was just like, I just typed in something about that,
Speaker 1: and immediately it popped up some of his quotes and
Speaker 1: people saying Jerry was thirty years ahead of race. I
Speaker 1: thought that was noteworthy. Yeah, he'd get he'd get I mean,
Speaker 1: he'd still get canceled now if you listen to everything
Speaker 1: he does because like his jokes about women's liberation and stuff.
Speaker 1: They may come after him pretty hard. Yeah, he wouldn't
Speaker 1: say him, but they'd come after him hard about it. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: any of these comedians you could with a little historical revision,
Speaker 1: we just wipe him out. You know, his whole big
Speaker 1: joke about how good his wife's got it. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: don't want to mess with what mama's got his his like,
Speaker 1: his whole thing is he looks at the woman's liberation
Speaker 1: movement and what they're after, and then he talks about
Speaker 1: how how grave he is if has it, and he's like,
Speaker 1: she do a want to know that ship? Yeah? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: McCulloch chainsaw. Oh, it was funny. In the show they
Speaker 1: were talking about you associating Clowers chainsaw from the famous
Speaker 1: talking chainsaw um and your old man having a mccullic.
Speaker 1: So our family chainsaw was a McCulloch yellow McCulloch and uh,
Speaker 1: it was just funny because it was like we understood
Speaker 1: later that, like it took note of the fact that
Speaker 1: Marcel's chainsaw was the chainsaw we owned, which I don't
Speaker 1: know what the hell happened to that company, but I
Speaker 1: was in the chainsaw tree business for a lot of
Speaker 1: years and never laid eyes on another McCullah. As he
Speaker 1: puts it, another thing you hit on, uh is his
Speaker 1: use of detail. And he's like a very good in
Speaker 1: that way, a very good, technically proficient writer. And the
Speaker 1: thing I returned to is his like the coon hunting story,
Speaker 1: his most famous story, his description of um the tree,
Speaker 1: like if you listen carefully to his description of like
Speaker 1: how big the tree is, He's so efficient, but it's
Speaker 1: like how big the tree is the person that's going
Speaker 1: to climb the tree, what their attitude is about tree climbing.
Speaker 1: When they take off their shoes, they don't just take
Speaker 1: off their shoes, they take off a pair of Brogan shoes,
Speaker 1: which was like the poor working person's It told you
Speaker 1: who this guy was most It was like the most functional,
Speaker 1: like poor. It would be like if you were like
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, to be like he took
Speaker 1: off his hush puppies right, and you'd be like, got it,
Speaker 1: Like I know everything about that kid. Now I know
Speaker 1: about that kid's parents sensibilities, like he took off his
Speaker 1: tough skins. Okay, you'd be like got it, Like I
Speaker 1: know that person's parents, I grew up with that person.
Speaker 1: He takes off a pair of Brogan shoes and then
Speaker 1: the thing too. He says, I pointed this out. I
Speaker 1: told cran about this later. Is um, you know sweet
Speaker 1: gums got smooth bark, kind of a soft smooth bark,
Speaker 1: and that he buries his toenails into the bar to
Speaker 1: start climbing. It's like, this is like beautiful build of
Speaker 1: like very telling details. You know. As I said that,
Speaker 1: I was envisioning like trying to tell a kuldnhun story
Speaker 1: like him. And I had the same thought about how
Speaker 1: efficient he was, even with detail, because sometimes someone tells
Speaker 1: the story and you're like, okay, come on, speed it up,
Speaker 1: like too much, you know, there's too much detail. And
Speaker 1: he he would give you just the right amount of
Speaker 1: detail and the places you needed it and then skip.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just natural, Like I I doubt he's
Speaker 1: sat down and really thought about it much. It was
Speaker 1: just instinctual. But a lot of his a lot of
Speaker 1: his you know, comedy. The different routines were like under
Speaker 1: two minutes, like the chandelier one. That is a perfect
Speaker 1: joke that the chandelier story like that, that's like a
Speaker 1: minute in fifty seconds. Yeah, I just it's not I mean,
Speaker 1: no one really likes to hear someone breakdown a joke
Speaker 1: and tell you why it's funny. But I love that
Speaker 1: he stands up. He's like, well, no one could spell
Speaker 1: chandelier anyway, so I don't think. I don't why are
Speaker 1: we doing this? And you're like, ha ha, that's funny.
Speaker 1: And also no one could play this chandelier. And then
Speaker 1: as a listener like huh what And then then of
Speaker 1: the punchline, I much rather spend the money and getting
Speaker 1: some lights in here. It's just it's just so it's perfect.
Speaker 1: And then as you heard from John Newman that that
Speaker 1: actually happened. That was one of the stories that just
Speaker 1: like straight up happened, and Jerry just told it, you know,
Speaker 1: which is pretty amazing. Now, what I hope this does
Speaker 1: is everybody can go find some Jerry Clower. It would
Speaker 1: be hard. I think it would be hard for anybody
Speaker 1: to listen to that and not find some bit of enjoyment.
Speaker 1: I've seen it happen. I've seen it happen every person
Speaker 1: that I over the years, every person that like we
Speaker 1: travel with on the crew, I've I've subjected them to
Speaker 1: klower most of them get something out of I've seen
Speaker 1: something where just as like this, yeah no connection, yeah
Speaker 1: down the internet, and I'm like, I like it, really
Speaker 1: this really like no part of this. Like I do
Speaker 1: think you have to have some connection to work. I
Speaker 1: think you have to have some connection to world one. Now,
Speaker 1: you just got to be a cold person. If I
Speaker 1: was a cold blood running through your veins. Yea. The
Speaker 1: pheasants forever, quail forever, the old talking. A couple of
Speaker 1: weeks ago and over and over, I had a bunch
Speaker 1: of a little talks on the stage there and over
Speaker 1: and over again. People would be, well, how to any
Speaker 1: tips for getting first time hunters into and it's kind
Speaker 1: of like this Jerry Clowd thing, like I don't understand
Speaker 1: how you couldn't like it. And for me, upland bird
Speaker 1: hunting is the same way. I'm like, lots of exercise,
Speaker 1: beautiful country dogs doing doing their dog thing, doing the
Speaker 1: thing that they're made to do. And my success rate
Speaker 1: in taking first time upland bird hunters out who really
Speaker 1: want to go again is next to zero. Shot my
Speaker 1: gun and I got Jerry Clower was a big coil
Speaker 1: hunter man. We we don't have time to get into it,
Speaker 1: but he he said something that I thought was great detail.
Speaker 1: I don't think I brought it up in the episode,
Speaker 1: but when in the story of when he had to
Speaker 1: shoot Uncle Very's meal, when he had to put it
Speaker 1: down Uncle Vert, he went to Uncle Versey's and said, Hey,
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna hunt on your property. And Uncle
Speaker 1: Versy goes, oh, that's great. There's seven right covies between
Speaker 1: here and the road. I thought that was a that's
Speaker 1: how that's something somebody would say, that's right cove between.
Speaker 1: That was another I know where you're trying to wrap
Speaker 1: it up. That was another running joke with me my friends,
Speaker 1: and just like teenage years is dealing with landowners and
Speaker 1: trying to get permissions. There was a joke where it's like,
Speaker 1: only people that do that would get how receptive when
Speaker 1: he goes to get permission, Oh, I'm so glad you
Speaker 1: come out and hunt my place. Only someone who's like
Speaker 1: dealt with like permissions all the time would find it
Speaker 1: funny that like Jerry goes to get permission to the
Speaker 1: guys like so glad. Yeah, we've been saving them for you. Man.
Speaker 1: There's so many jewels inside of that and so it's
Speaker 1: been a lot of fun. Thank you guys for being
Speaker 1: on the Burglary Surrender. Thank you much appreciated. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: hope the the original crew doesn't have too much of
Speaker 1: a problem. You would like to say, what's up to
Speaker 1: the porkrass cracklands? Correct? Who's how to do it right? Boys? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Lady