Speaker 1: Hi, How are you good?
Speaker 2: Thanks? How are you doing?
Speaker 1: I'm good? So you've been on here once before? Can
Speaker 1: you tell everybody what are you? Because I have a
Speaker 1: woman who I work with who's a psychoanalyst. I've been
Speaker 1: working with her for years. I never knew exactly what
Speaker 1: she is. She could be a b diatrist for all
Speaker 1: I know. She's very, very helpful, and she listens and
Speaker 1: she's smart. But she's a psychoanalyst. So what are you?
Speaker 2: I'm a psychologist. I work what you would call a
Speaker 2: CBT psychologist, so cognitive behavioral therapist. So within psychology there's
Speaker 2: many different orientations how do we do things? So I
Speaker 2: work a lot with people with the way that they
Speaker 2: think their rational thoughts as opposed to their irrational thoughts,
Speaker 2: how their irrational thoughts affect their behavior. But I take
Speaker 2: it from a different approach. I take it from a
Speaker 2: family systems approach where they come from.
Speaker 1: So I specialize in family.
Speaker 2: You know, doing what I do, it's hard not to
Speaker 2: write because we all come from family. So if you
Speaker 2: don't understand a healthy family dynamic or what an unhealthy
Speaker 2: family dynamic creates, it's hard to do what you do.
Speaker 2: So I specialize. I like to say, I specialize in people,
Speaker 2: and I treat the person so a lot of anxiety,
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of depression, a lot of
Speaker 2: trauma work. So it all depends on what they're bringing me.
Speaker 2: I want to I think it's very important that we
Speaker 2: look at that person and understand who they are and
Speaker 2: where they come from and treat that.
Speaker 1: And you work with kids and adults.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I recently experienced a death and it's become
Speaker 1: this conversation that has been surprisingly shockingly not shockingly, but
Speaker 1: surprisingly engaging, because I think so many people are repressing
Speaker 1: these discussions and not talking about it. People don't always
Speaker 1: talk about sex, people don't always talk about money. People
Speaker 1: certainly don't talk about death in like a complex way.
Speaker 1: They'll talk about they experience the death, they're sad about
Speaker 1: their situation, but there aren't these sort of cross channels
Speaker 1: of discussion that I'm finding, particularly in women and the
Speaker 1: what's going on. And it's sort of like there's like
Speaker 1: a one size fits all death grieving model versus like
Speaker 1: the different types which I sort of came to. So
Speaker 1: I was realizing a couple things. I was realizing one
Speaker 1: that there's obviously no right or wrong, but every single
Speaker 1: type of death is different, and each death has a
Speaker 1: different dynamic. So, like I've said, someone could be ninety
Speaker 1: six years old, had a beautiful life, had a great family,
Speaker 1: everything was healthy. That's sad they've been around so long.
Speaker 1: Somebody else loses God forbid someone I can't even say
Speaker 1: it out loud, but younger than them, or someone takes
Speaker 1: their own life, or there's addiction, it's an unexpected accident,
Speaker 1: and like each thing has a different tone to it.
Speaker 1: And then as a cousin to that, there are many
Speaker 1: different brands and types of grieving. I thought about all
Speaker 1: of this during what I chose to do, just based
Speaker 1: on my own gut, but there are many different types
Speaker 1: of grieving. So I've seen really only Shiva and Catholic
Speaker 1: and wake and everyone together and laughing and food and
Speaker 1: flowers and jokes and getting drunk and stories and photos,
Speaker 1: and I did not I've done that. But in my
Speaker 1: recent loss of my mother, I feel like in both scenarios,
Speaker 1: it was kind of an unusual circumstance with the death
Speaker 1: and the grieving, So I kind of wanted to get
Speaker 1: into both of those situations because me bringing up the
Speaker 1: fact that it was a complicated relationship. You don't want
Speaker 1: to be disingenuous and like act like you're like So
Speaker 1: I was sobbing more than I was for people that
Speaker 1: I had a good relationship with, which is crazy, but
Speaker 1: I didn't want you don't want to be disingenuous where
Speaker 1: you're acting like you had this amazing relationship. You're just
Speaker 1: telling I was just telling the truth about what the
Speaker 1: deal was, right. And then also it's not like it's
Speaker 1: a very insular thing, this particular death. So I wasn't
Speaker 1: like having a bunch of people over to tell me
Speaker 1: how great it was and as she lit up the room,
Speaker 1: so it was like a different deal. So what do
Speaker 1: you have Let's we'll get into details after. But what
Speaker 1: do you have to say about both of those constructs?
Speaker 2: No, I think that's very interesting and something that we
Speaker 2: don't really give enough credit to is that other kind
Speaker 2: of deaths be more and also so the death of
Speaker 2: a relationship, when the death of a job or a
Speaker 2: situation or an experience, right, there are many things we mourn,
Speaker 2: and there are many things that trigger our responses in
Speaker 2: the same way when things don't happen. So when you
Speaker 2: had when you say you had a complicated relationship with
Speaker 2: your mom when she passed, Yes, you could be mourning
Speaker 2: the passing of your mom, but you can also be
Speaker 2: mourning the potential of a better relationship with her. You
Speaker 2: could be mourning having that sadness of mourning the loss
Speaker 2: of a childhood that you wish you had. There's so
Speaker 2: many there's so many more complication and complicated layers to
Speaker 2: that that it's not you know, it doesn't say enough
Speaker 2: to to say, yeah, I'm sad, I'm mourning the loss,
Speaker 2: because it's it's how many losses. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: losses there.
Speaker 1: Right, And what was shocking to me different than any
Speaker 1: other time. Sometimes the stages agree for predictable what people say.
Speaker 1: But in this particular grieving, it was like coming out
Speaker 1: of my body in ways that I wasn't expecting. Like
Speaker 1: I was not you're right, like you couldn't help, but
Speaker 1: you were just feeling. And it was like I was
Speaker 1: a going to the movie of my entire life that
Speaker 1: I haven't watched ever. I've never watched the movie. I
Speaker 1: haven't allowed myself to go in and see that movie.
Speaker 1: It's too hard a movie. So I watched the movie
Speaker 1: part of the movie was super like happy moments as
Speaker 1: a child. Part was frustration for like not being able
Speaker 1: to continue that and like why. Part was the person
Speaker 1: who passed away, like mourning them, like their poor life,
Speaker 1: like my poor life, their poor life. The loss wasn't
Speaker 1: really the thing. I was mourning because I didn't really
Speaker 1: have a great relationship. I was mourning. I was feeling
Speaker 1: sorry for myself in many of the cases. And I
Speaker 1: also could only live in that movie. And then after
Speaker 1: like a couple of weeks, it just like it passed
Speaker 1: like the movie was over and I thought I would
Speaker 1: never get out of this movie good and bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's funny with It's an interesting
Speaker 2: analogy that you make. But I'll disagree one thing when
Speaker 2: you say that you never watched the movie, right, it's
Speaker 2: sort of we don't go to movie theaters anymore, right,
Speaker 2: But when you know, when you go to a movie
Speaker 2: theater and you're waiting for your theater to open up,
Speaker 2: but the other theaters are playing movies and you sort
Speaker 2: of hear things you don't maybe you don't understand the dialogue.
Speaker 2: You hear an explosion, you hear a car chase, you
Speaker 2: hear some left. You hear traces of what that movie,
Speaker 2: but you just don't know what that movie is going on.
Speaker 2: Those memories that are really hard to understand, the really
Speaker 2: hard to take, or memories that we had that were
Speaker 2: so harmful and painful for us that we pushed back,
Speaker 2: those are like that where they're there. It may not
Speaker 2: be fully aware of them, then we may not be
Speaker 2: fully in touch with them, but they're there and they're
Speaker 2: affecting us, and they're going to affect our decisions that
Speaker 2: we make and how we define who we are.
Speaker 1: Right and your subconscious in a lot of way. So
Speaker 1: it's weird how this was a pinata that cracked open.
Speaker 1: I've worked with a psychoanalyst for years. She really didn't
Speaker 1: she knows about me because it's drive by explanations. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: and that used to hap when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: and that like you're saying, but it wasn't ever going
Speaker 1: there and I and You're about to get on a rock.
Speaker 1: It first happens and you are like, wait, what's going
Speaker 1: to happen now? Like I remember getting the call and
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, because for many years, I've thought what happens
Speaker 1: the day that she dies? And I've thought it was
Speaker 1: a drawer, and I'd be fine with it because it
Speaker 1: was in a good relationship and it's not at all
Speaker 1: what you're gonna expect. And all of a sudden you're
Speaker 1: on this roller coaster and you're like, we're going on
Speaker 1: a fucking ride right now, and you don't, and it's
Speaker 1: about to start, and you're on the floor, collapsed in
Speaker 1: the hallway, just like needing to be next to the
Speaker 1: bathroom tile by yourself. And then you're in shock, and
Speaker 1: then you're in denial, and then you're in sadness, and
Speaker 1: then you only are willing to listen to one kind
Speaker 1: of music, like a fucking weirdo, and you're up. I
Speaker 1: still haven't slept a full night since it, right, but
Speaker 1: like things, so you know.
Speaker 2: You know, I'll tell you what though, when when I've
Speaker 2: had people in therapy who will who will tell me
Speaker 2: what their life was like, and they'll and they'll say
Speaker 2: it like boom bom boom boom boom, sort of like
Speaker 2: you real quick bullet points, this is what it was like,
Speaker 2: and I I have to slow them down. So wait, waite,
Speaker 2: what do you mean, what do you mean that happened?
Speaker 2: And what did you experience? From that and what how
Speaker 2: did you how did you experience that? How do you
Speaker 2: define that? What does that mean to you? Right? And
Speaker 2: I'll be honest with you, I stay away from that
Speaker 2: real douchey psychology question. How does that make you feel?
Speaker 2: I hate that question? Everybody that question, right, But you
Speaker 2: want to want to get to that how do you
Speaker 2: define that? What did that mean to you? Because then
Speaker 2: when we slow things down there, it's like, well, I'm
Speaker 2: in therapy and you know I'm doing the work well.
Speaker 1: Because some people want to be well, it's like going
Speaker 1: to the gym and just like saying, because you walked
Speaker 1: in the gym, yes, but I will tell you this
Speaker 1: from my perspective, and yes, my therapist has asked me
Speaker 1: that too. It's something that often you're in preparation for
Speaker 1: game day because the truth of the matter is you
Speaker 1: saying how to them make you feel? Or whether you
Speaker 1: say what was your experience or whatever you say, it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Like this was like I'm not saying therapy.
Speaker 1: Therapy is great and it's amazing, and it's like stretching
Speaker 1: all the time, and when the big race comes then
Speaker 1: you're kind of almost prepared but not quite. But I
Speaker 1: will say, there's nothing like someone smashing that pinata with
Speaker 1: a bat or doing ayahuasca people talk about, or doing
Speaker 1: emdr or doing like this was not something that ten
Speaker 1: years of therapy could do for me. Like people, I think,
Speaker 1: you just have to be aware when the car crash
Speaker 1: comes or when something happens, how you're going to brace
Speaker 1: yourself or how you're going to deal with it. And
Speaker 1: that's where I come up with the not going and
Speaker 1: drinking and laughing and getting the pictures out and distracting,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't like proactively choose my body, chose to
Speaker 1: just lean all the way into it, to get outside
Speaker 1: and take a walk, to listen to the music, to
Speaker 1: cry through it. And I didn't know that I was
Speaker 1: necessarily doing the right thing, but it's what I did.
Speaker 2: M Well, maybe it was the right thing for that
Speaker 2: moment and the right thing for you at that moment.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, Now I want to talk about this emotional trauma,
Speaker 1: this generational trauma concept. I'd never really heard that term before.
Speaker 1: My followers are so savvy, so smart. You everyon want
Speaker 1: to learn something, go into my comments and read their experiences.
Speaker 1: So I've gotten easily a thousand messages from people estranged
Speaker 1: from this person that person it's complicated, or they're the parent,
Speaker 1: or you know, like all of it. And this really
Speaker 1: made people stop and think. So I felt like it
Speaker 1: was great that I was taking on the responsibility of
Speaker 1: at least if I made mistakes, or if I had
Speaker 1: these experience, or if I didn't make mistakes, just having
Speaker 1: this experience. I this has definitely helped a lot of
Speaker 1: people on this conversation will but this generational trauma thing
Speaker 1: where we know it but we don't really think about it,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't mean you have to do the same
Speaker 1: negative thing. I know people who came from abusive backgrounds
Speaker 1: and they're too kodily to their kids because it's a
Speaker 1: pendulum the other way. But I did learn through this
Speaker 1: process that my you know, mother, she her sister, and
Speaker 1: her brother were beaten the absolute shit out of and
Speaker 1: the brother, the uncle who did not choose to ever
Speaker 1: have kids, who happens to live in the next town.
Speaker 1: I found out he is more like me in the
Speaker 1: sense that he went he was swat team, he was military,
Speaker 1: he was cop, he was control flies helicopters like methodical
Speaker 1: like you know, textbook control like me, organizing package like
Speaker 1: you see the difference of how we all like managed.
Speaker 1: But it also and you see whatever his father did.
Speaker 1: But this was the sec the seventies. No one was cut.
Speaker 1: I've had people come out and say now that they
Speaker 1: lived next door to me in Rockville Center, Long Island,
Speaker 1: and that they were worried for my safety because the
Speaker 1: cops were there, and there was a lot of abuse
Speaker 1: in my house. And it was the seventies. You drove drunk,
Speaker 1: you didn't wear a seatbelt, you let your kids out
Speaker 1: the back door, you smoke while you're pregnant. Like this
Speaker 1: is why this is a whole different deal today my
Speaker 1: life as a child, someone would be coming over to
Speaker 1: the house and taking me out of there, right, So
Speaker 1: what about all this generational trauma. A lot of these
Speaker 1: moms that I'm talking to, these women are children of
Speaker 1: the seventies and the sixties, and it's a different deal.
Speaker 2: Right, right, So when you go back as far as that,
Speaker 2: you can understand how people how their trum affects the
Speaker 2: way they see themselves, right, and how it skews the
Speaker 2: way that they see themselves and looking for that control.
Speaker 2: It's an interesting word to use. Someone who's believing, like
Speaker 2: your mom think about how controlling she was. I mean, outside,
Speaker 2: her life must be very chaotic, right, But what's the
Speaker 2: one thing she was able to control.
Speaker 1: Well, she had that crutch of every meal going to
Speaker 1: the bathroom afterwards. And it's so self loathing, and I
Speaker 1: want to talk about that. I'm going to have an
Speaker 1: ed expert on here too. But I'm sure you know
Speaker 1: a decent amount about this. I have never seen. I've
Speaker 1: heard of a lot of people in college. I've heard
Speaker 1: a lot of people with eating disorders. My mother was
Speaker 1: a brick shit house. She was ninety pounds. She would
Speaker 1: come home from studio fifty four. My stepfather would lock
Speaker 1: the door. She would smash her fist through the window.
Speaker 1: I've seen her go head to head with truck drivers
Speaker 1: and kick with her cowboy boot their truck. She was
Speaker 1: a fucking bad bitch. Like she was insane and tough
Speaker 1: and smart and strong and scary. And you can imagine
Speaker 1: where I can be tough and strong and scary, but
Speaker 1: it's under control. So I think about the fact that
Speaker 1: she had she had a life long never once admitted
Speaker 1: it to anyone. Every believe I've ever heard of has
Speaker 1: admitted it to someone, or you hear the story later
Speaker 1: or something. I've never heard of a person that I
Speaker 1: have stood outside of a bathroom, heard her throwing up
Speaker 1: for an hour and a half, gone in, seen it
Speaker 1: around the toilet, smelled it, seeing it in her eyes,
Speaker 1: all of it, and her lie about it my whole life.
Speaker 1: And I've never before this experience thought about what the
Speaker 1: hell that did to me. I was embarrassed of her.
Speaker 1: I was I was shameful. I watched her lose her beauty.
Speaker 1: I didn't want her to come over anyone's house. I
Speaker 1: was always on edge, and she was always on edge,
Speaker 1: smashing everything in the house, torturing waiters for the way
Speaker 1: things were. And I think about what the hell that
Speaker 1: life was like, how she survived, how she lived as
Speaker 1: long as she even did right and every meal.
Speaker 2: That effects of what that affects a child. So you
Speaker 2: know how that's gonna affect your young set health, right,
Speaker 2: And that if I'm better, she wouldn't be doing this.
Speaker 2: If I'm a better kid, she wouldn't be doing that.
Speaker 2: I'm not good enough, right, And hey, listen, maybe she
Speaker 2: was thinking that too when she was growing up. If
Speaker 2: I'm better, my dad won't beat on me. If I'm better,
Speaker 2: my dad won't beat on my brother. Let's keep it calm,
Speaker 2: let's keep it quiet. So we take as a child,
Speaker 2: we take responsibility for the actions of our parents because
Speaker 2: we put them up on pedestals. Not until later on
Speaker 2: we realize that if we ever do, but by that
Speaker 2: time we already have established the way we feel about ourselves,
Speaker 2: our sense of self. And that's what's really damaging, is
Speaker 2: that we take on responsibility of things that we don't
Speaker 2: have any control over and then think that it's our
Speaker 2: shortcoming that we can't fix it and change it, and
Speaker 2: then we overcompensate for that later on in life. And
Speaker 2: it can go either way. Either we feed into it
Speaker 2: that I'm a piece of shit and I'm not good enough,
Speaker 2: or we go over and we try to control and
Speaker 2: become like almost narcissistic and like little kings in our kingdom,
Speaker 2: and then become become abusive as well. So we can
Speaker 2: fluctuate within that continuum. It doesn't have to be, but
Speaker 2: many times we can see that. And then and then
Speaker 2: we replicate those relationships, right, something that is something called
Speaker 2: replication and rectification, right, So we can replicate a relationship
Speaker 2: with somebody else that kind of makes us feel the
Speaker 2: way that our parent made us feel. And because if
Speaker 2: we can fix that person, then we're actually fixing our
Speaker 2: parent and we're feeling better about ourselves.
Speaker 1: And that's where you're saying, coming into being very aware
Speaker 1: of where you come from when you're making choices with
Speaker 1: a partner, and it could seem like it's in a
Speaker 1: good package, but it could be for a different for sure.
Speaker 2: For sure, and then you get that generational trump because
Speaker 2: it continues onto the next one, onto the next one,
Speaker 2: onto that.
Speaker 1: It may not be directly with you and your kid.
Speaker 1: It could be you with your husband, It could be
Speaker 1: the choice.
Speaker 2: It could be sad, of course, but if you pick
Speaker 2: that spouse, that's unstable, right, the same level of instability
Speaker 2: with a spouse. What kind of family dynamic are you
Speaker 2: creating for your kid?
Speaker 1: Right? Well, what's inferting.
Speaker 2: But certainly atable one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel I can remember the resounding feeling that
Speaker 1: people may relate to if they've been in the house
Speaker 1: with I had an alcoholic and a boalimic chainsmoker, like
Speaker 1: with then my stepfather gambler. There were always bookies coming
Speaker 1: to my house and like gambling all the football games,
Speaker 1: so I had a lot of addiction and physical abuse
Speaker 1: in my house, so my resounding feeling was walking on
Speaker 1: eggshells and always like worrying about what everybody else like.
Speaker 1: I remember coming into my twenties like are those two
Speaker 1: getting along with the table? Like everybody like reading every
Speaker 1: situation in every room, which has been very good for
Speaker 1: me in business because I can be in a boardroom
Speaker 1: and understand what the hell everyone else is doing, thinking, saying, smelling.
Speaker 1: I can read and eating disorder from two blocks away.
Speaker 1: A nuance. I was on a show with someone and
Speaker 1: it really triggered me because I can smell something before
Speaker 1: anyone else can smell it. In lying and stealing and cheating,
Speaker 1: I can feel it because and I had I had
Speaker 1: never really made that connection. And Melinda, my therapist, said,
Speaker 1: because I've seen things in other people that I've caught
Speaker 1: really fast before even people in my life who are
Speaker 1: around it more caught it. My stepfather was living with
Speaker 1: my mother for all those years. I was the one
Speaker 1: who let him know about the eating disorder. I just
Speaker 1: from very young, from seeing all this physical abuse and
Speaker 1: all this stuff, I just I just knew I could
Speaker 1: clock anything anywhere. And it's kind of like being a
Speaker 1: it's not great because it's like being a cop, you're
Speaker 1: like constantly it's like that movie where Jim Carrey could
Speaker 1: hear every single thing that everyone was thinking about it,
Speaker 1: or Matthew McConaughey. It's kind of it's because you're so
Speaker 1: your instrument is so in tuned to chaos and like dysfunction.
Speaker 2: And it's the role that you had. Because if you're
Speaker 2: so tuned into the dysfunction and the chaos, then your role,
Speaker 2: like you called yourself a cop, well, what's the cops role?
Speaker 2: To serve and protect, right, to make sure maintain order.
Speaker 2: So your role there is to make sure everyone's okay?
Speaker 2: How can you possibly be able to make everything okay?
Speaker 1: How old were you started the fighting in the house,
Speaker 1: right I have to call the cops was like five?
Speaker 1: But the throwing up of seven that I first.
Speaker 2: Caught it sure, So that a seven year old is
Speaker 2: going to make sure everyone's okay or everyone is going
Speaker 2: to be well and healthy, it's impossible. So you were
Speaker 2: destined to fail. So how do we feel when we fail?
Speaker 2: We don't feel good. Doesn't make us feel good. To
Speaker 2: fail doesn't matter that what we're failing at is something
Speaker 2: we can never do right. That doesn't matter. What matters
Speaker 2: is that we fail and we feel like a failure.
Speaker 2: And so that comes part of our building block of
Speaker 2: who we think, oh, we are as a person, which
Speaker 2: is why that drives people sometimes maybe such as yourself,
Speaker 2: to be successful, but tries to prove that you are
Speaker 2: you do have that worth.
Speaker 1: It's all the time, yes, And I see that even
Speaker 1: with my father, who treated me so poorly and he
Speaker 1: was so successful, and he dangled it over his head
Speaker 1: and he bragged, like to this day he's dead, and
Speaker 1: I still want to shove my success up his ass.
Speaker 1: Not my mother, because I have more compassion. My mother
Speaker 1: was jealousy. She wanted to be famous, she wanted to
Speaker 1: be relevant, she wanted to be fashionable. She liked the
Speaker 1: trappings and the nice things. But like Melinda would say,
Speaker 1: like I'm living out their goals. She feels that there's
Speaker 1: like a definite connection. Forget the skinny girl and alcohol, like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, Freud is knocking on my door. But
Speaker 1: the because people always want to know where the drive
Speaker 1: comes from. And sometimes I just simplify it to my
Speaker 1: father as a hall of fame horse trainer, and he
Speaker 1: was a He was a worker, and my mother to
Speaker 1: the day she died, I was a worker like I
Speaker 1: come from. No complain, no explain, no shortcut workers, you know,
Speaker 1: put the exception of dysfunction from her, but they just
Speaker 1: are there's a work ethic. But I think it's more
Speaker 1: than that, like you're saying, like you were saying, drive,
Speaker 1: that's like and it's and it's it's been insatiable. But
Speaker 1: really recently, in the last couple of years, I keep
Speaker 1: getting towards a point where I really won't do anything
Speaker 1: that I don't want to do. And I don't go
Speaker 1: just for money ever. But the more that I am
Speaker 1: truthful about what I don't want to do and the
Speaker 1: more that I say no, the more that walks in
Speaker 1: the door, Like the more the tables get hot, the
Speaker 1: more that I don't like desperately cling on to it right.
Speaker 2: Right, Because you're starting to learn how to define success
Speaker 2: and define yourself in different ways. And I think that
Speaker 2: that's super important, right because as a child, when we
Speaker 2: especially you don't think that you know, I'm just picturing
Speaker 2: you as a five seven eight year old, nine year
Speaker 2: old and having people over and they're all gambling there
Speaker 2: if they're focused on what they're gambling on. Right, Then
Speaker 2: I focused on you, right, So then it's not it's
Speaker 2: not you're you're you're a window dressing at that point. Right, So,
Speaker 2: not only could a child feel like they're not good
Speaker 2: enough because they're failing at their role, they're also not
Speaker 2: good enough because one's paying attention. Right. I think you
Speaker 2: mentioned that you're raised by wolves, right, like, no one,
Speaker 2: no one paid attention. You raised yourself, right, Well, if
Speaker 2: you were good, you were worthy, if you were worthy
Speaker 2: of it, then they would have raised you. So that's
Speaker 2: that's the pathological thought process that we can easily engage
Speaker 2: in that were not conscious of it. Just it just
Speaker 2: starts that way. Continue.
Speaker 1: You also have a lack of sometimes empathy because so
Speaker 1: when I was no one ever made doctor's appointments for me.
Speaker 1: I remember having chicken pox and my friend no one
Speaker 1: believed me, and I got one hundred and five fever.
Speaker 1: My friend's parents had to take me to the hospital.
Speaker 1: I broke, I fell down a scheme mount and ended
Speaker 1: up in a helicopter. My my ex my exes fam like.
Speaker 1: I was always clamoring for that, But I find that
Speaker 1: people who grow up like that it's hard for them
Speaker 1: to empathize with people who are whining about basic things,
Speaker 1: you know, like other people that are like that have
Speaker 1: things handed to them. You're almost are jealous or like
Speaker 1: you just don't have a lot of tolerance for people
Speaker 1: that are like complaining and explaining.
Speaker 2: Sure, of course, of course, and it brings up a
Speaker 2: you know, you have to put up a little wall
Speaker 2: there too, that you don't want to get close to
Speaker 2: those people because they have it so easy obviously not
Speaker 2: like me, because they were good enough to get that easy.
Speaker 2: And I find interesting too. And when you get older
Speaker 2: and get to those teen years and you start picking
Speaker 2: your partners and you get to your twenties, I find
Speaker 2: a lot of times people will push healthy people away
Speaker 2: from them because there's something about me that isn't right right.
Speaker 2: I'm growing up always thinking that there's something about me
Speaker 2: with something that that's not right. I may not be
Speaker 2: able to put my finger on it per se, but
Speaker 2: I know there's something there. So what's wrong with this
Speaker 2: person that they like me? They seem so good, don't
Speaker 2: they see what I see? That there's something that right
Speaker 2: about me? So there's something wrong with them? Or I'm
Speaker 2: not worthy of that, so I'm gonna push them away.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go towards someone who may not treat me well,
Speaker 2: who may not treat me that great, who may be
Speaker 2: somewhat of a liar here, or you know, cuts the
Speaker 2: corner there and turns into something bigger later on, because well,
Speaker 2: that's what I'm used to, right, and that's what I'm worth.
Speaker 2: And of course they're not healthy. They like me so,
Speaker 2: and that's that's sort of how we perpetuate what we'd learned.
Speaker 1: Yes, but it also could be like I remember younger,
Speaker 1: this is all change. I'm older now. You really don't
Speaker 1: realize anything until you get older. But like I used
Speaker 1: to be, you know, I used to get a bad
Speaker 1: haircut and my stepfather would take us down to Florida,
Speaker 1: or we go to Vegas and go to the craps table,
Speaker 1: like action junkie. You know, that explains a lot of
Speaker 1: how I am. Like, let's go, let's do it, let's
Speaker 1: figure it out, let's solve it, let's go do three
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars in relief, no problem. You know I
Speaker 1: had had somebody once say to me, and now you're
Speaker 1: gonna see what I was like on the basketball court.
Speaker 1: And I was talking to my stepfather the other day
Speaker 1: after a while, and he was like the basketball court.
Speaker 1: I was like the racetrack, Like it becomes like I
Speaker 1: literally grew up at a place where it's the fastest
Speaker 1: sport period. Like it's just action and gambling and drinking
Speaker 1: and money and highs and lows. So it's hard to
Speaker 1: you know, I do crave stability, and I'm so much
Speaker 1: of a homebody. Thank God, I want that direction. But
Speaker 1: it's hard to get to that place.
Speaker 2: And it took it. Did it take you time to
Speaker 2: get to that place.
Speaker 1: Totally? And you don't even know you're on the the
Speaker 1: role code, you don't even know you're on the racetrack,
Speaker 1: You're just on the race. Well yeah, I mean all
Speaker 1: those years before I had a kid, it was great
Speaker 1: that I had kid, lad because I was running on
Speaker 1: that racetrack like a.
Speaker 2: Maniac, right right, and there was probably you know, there's
Speaker 2: that part of you that was healthy. I mean no
Speaker 2: one's all you know, holy unhealthy where you have healthy parties, right,
Speaker 2: so that healthy part of you and you I have
Speaker 2: to wait, right, I'm not I'm not ready for that.
Speaker 2: I have to through this until I'm ready for that
Speaker 2: next part of my life. And I think that that's
Speaker 2: that's very telling. I mean, that's very good.
Speaker 1: So what about well two qu what about memories and
Speaker 1: flashes of sexual abuse that your mind plays tricks on you?
Speaker 1: You know it happened, you kind of pretend it didn't happen.
Speaker 1: There's nothing you can really do about. How does that
Speaker 1: manifest itself? What what comes out in people with situations
Speaker 1: like that? What does that create for them? Is it
Speaker 1: lack because for me it would be lack of trust
Speaker 1: of males?
Speaker 2: I mean it can be for sure, right, it depends
Speaker 2: on how what the age was? What was the age.
Speaker 1: Seven seven to seventeen or eighteen? And I say seventeen
Speaker 1: or eighteen because in that case it was you're an adult.
Speaker 1: But it's people that were in a parental figure, like
Speaker 1: a very close family friend that you thought was family,
Speaker 1: trying to sleep with you, but in a different way
Speaker 1: because you're an adult now, like propositioning you and being
Speaker 1: sleazy with you, where when you were younger, it was
Speaker 1: people taking advantage of you. And in my case, my
Speaker 1: whole entire childhood was being around a bunch of racetrack
Speaker 1: degenerates at all times when if you know, you know,
Speaker 1: there's horse trainer and my stepfather's a horse trainer, and
Speaker 1: he had all these guys around with different nicknames, and
Speaker 1: they were just always around the house. It was like
Speaker 1: a degenerate posse and me and my mother was never there.
Speaker 1: So my stepfather was there, which was admirable that he
Speaker 1: was the only one staying with me when my mother
Speaker 1: was away having affairs in Wales with this guy and
Speaker 1: then went away to an institution. But I was always
Speaker 1: with a bunch of different men, always just dropping me off,
Speaker 1: picking me up like I was always of men. So
Speaker 1: I can imagine what that was like with these race
Speaker 1: track degenerates.
Speaker 2: Sure, sure, so there's definitely you definitely can create some
Speaker 2: trust issues for sure. Right, it's very confusing. It's very
Speaker 2: confusing for a child. You know that their their bodies
Speaker 2: could betray them. Right as you get older, they betray
Speaker 2: your body could react in certain ways, so your whole
Speaker 2: idea of of sex and your sexuality gets in puts
Speaker 2: a question you feel, No, there's a there's potential for
Speaker 2: feeling abandoned and abandoned in different ways, right, so abandoned
Speaker 2: by your mom who didn't protect you from them men
Speaker 2: hyper sexualized of thinking that this is what you need
Speaker 2: to do in order to get what you want.
Speaker 1: You know, feeling it can go either way, or being
Speaker 1: super repressed, being.
Speaker 2: Super repressed that you know, the difficult thing about this
Speaker 2: field that I'm in is that there it can go
Speaker 2: either way, right, there's no hard truths to it, which
Speaker 2: this is why it's very important to treat the person,
Speaker 2: not the problem.
Speaker 1: That's exactly right, So exactly because I have heard of
Speaker 1: situations that you're talking about where a woman becomes extremely promiscuous,
Speaker 1: and I experienced at an normally latent time to even
Speaker 1: consider using any kind of a toy or masturbation or anything.
Speaker 1: It was not even like it was never I don't
Speaker 1: remember it ever being discussed with me, but it was
Speaker 1: something that obviously you've heard about. It was like a
Speaker 1: block until I mean into thirties, okay, and I remember
Speaker 1: the first time I ever felt that I could trust
Speaker 1: someone in a sexual situation.
Speaker 2: Did you see it as a tool? Did you? How?
Speaker 2: Did you? How do you ever do it?
Speaker 1: No? It's a it's it's it's not it's not something
Speaker 1: to do for just like only pleasure. It's something to
Speaker 1: do to really connect with someone and you're then in
Speaker 1: a relationship where there's an expectation from someone like someone
Speaker 1: must someone would have to be legally bound to call
Speaker 1: you if you've had sex with them, like that would
Speaker 1: be the ultimate violation if they weren't. And even insex,
Speaker 1: you don't trust people sometimes, right, right, even if you
Speaker 1: even if you're in a relationship with them, you may
Speaker 1: not trust their intentions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious. I'm curious as a child what you
Speaker 2: how you understand to what mom was doing after she
Speaker 2: came back from the hospital and beatn and then having
Speaker 2: sex with her.
Speaker 1: She I knew she despised it. I could tell obviously
Speaker 1: she was doing it as an obligatory thing, right or
Speaker 1: some like tumultuous highs and lows addiction thing. But there's
Speaker 1: no way because that's where money came into and she
Speaker 1: stayed with us. She used to tell me she stay
Speaker 1: with all these men because of the fact that they
Speaker 1: supported her, and like there was all this information that
Speaker 1: I was privy to. Yeah, there's a lot of noise
Speaker 1: there for me with sex and money and all this
Speaker 1: type of stuff because of all that stuff.
Speaker 2: Right, and that you see, well, all those things that
Speaker 2: swirl around you. They don't have anything to do with
Speaker 2: you as a person. And that's when you say noise.
Speaker 2: It distracts about who you are as a person. And
Speaker 2: I mean you you, I mean us in general, but
Speaker 2: it distracts who we do and how we define ourselves
Speaker 2: as a person.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, But we also can't a la carte menu
Speaker 1: this thing. I wouldn't be so successful and be who
Speaker 1: I am and be able to communicate in this way
Speaker 1: and do this if I didn't have this background.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a great I'm gonna reference a song
Speaker 2: home Slash song Class of ninety nine always use your sunscreen.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you ever heard it. It's great,
Speaker 2: and it's basically giving advice. And one of the lines
Speaker 2: is live in California, but lead before you get too soft,
Speaker 2: and leave and live in New York, but lead before
Speaker 2: you get too hard. Right, So yeah, I mean it's important.
Speaker 1: I did both. I literally did both. I was in
Speaker 1: California and left before I got too soft after ten.
Speaker 2: Years, exactly right. So you know, when we have these
Speaker 2: types of experiences, they don't necessarily have to entirely do us, right.
Speaker 2: You don't have to end up on a dirty match
Speaker 2: or somewhere with a hyperdertic meanal in your arm. Right,
Speaker 2: you can use those to propel you to do things
Speaker 2: that are healthier. But it's when you're not fully in
Speaker 2: touch with things where it can go off the rails, right.
Speaker 2: And I think that that's what's really important. And sometimes
Speaker 2: things happen in our lives that will bring us back,
Speaker 2: wake us up, ring that bell and realize, holy shit,
Speaker 2: I got to make that change. I can't do it
Speaker 2: too much. I have to make a shift, right, And
Speaker 2: I think that that's important to listen to those to
Speaker 2: listen to those bells. Right.
Speaker 1: It's so true because this guy Breck that I know,
Speaker 1: who's a life coach, he always he says he doesn't
Speaker 1: believe an obligation and doing things just because you have to.
Speaker 1: And it's funny, like I often see people with other
Speaker 1: people that are abusive to them or mean to them
Speaker 1: or family members, they tolerate it. It's the dynamic and
Speaker 1: it's I believe negativity like it's contagious, it like gets
Speaker 1: on you. I don't want it anywhere near me. And
Speaker 1: when I was talking to a friend from high school,
Speaker 1: because I've opened up and started to reconnect, I've talked
Speaker 1: to my uncle. I talked to friends. I opened up
Speaker 1: a door I haven't opened up in years, and one
Speaker 1: of them just said it the best. She said, it
Speaker 1: feels like because I've felt guilt, And what about these
Speaker 1: letters that she wrote me saying she loved me and
Speaker 1: should I have gone there six months ago? And all
Speaker 1: this stuff, and like it was remembering things like only
Speaker 1: I was remembering no bad. I was like delusional. She said,
Speaker 1: it sounds like you had to let go or you
Speaker 1: both would have drowned. Because I always needed a justification.
Speaker 1: I would talk to different therapists about the fact that
Speaker 1: I just stucked this in a drawer and was not
Speaker 1: opening it because every time I opened it it was
Speaker 1: utterly nasty, utterly abusive, just felt like a place I
Speaker 1: didn't want to be. And I didn't want that on
Speaker 1: my daughter at all. Even when it started to get
Speaker 1: on my daughter a little in certain language and talking
Speaker 1: about my mother, you know, oh I gained fifteen pounds
Speaker 1: even though she was eighty pounds, or you know, saying
Speaker 1: just some nasty things like I was like, I shut
Speaker 1: it down. I didn't want any of that on my kid.
Speaker 2: Do you have any idea why you may have kept
Speaker 2: those letters. Come come.
Speaker 1: I didn't know I had I didn't even know I
Speaker 1: had them. I didn't even know I had them, and
Speaker 1: they were only from one period, and I was looking
Speaker 1: for a photo, and I was like, what the it
Speaker 1: was on my most raw day. She died Friday Sunday.
Speaker 1: I was literally I'd been obsessing over these pictures of
Speaker 1: when she looked beautiful, because her vanity was such a thing,
Speaker 1: and her beauty was extraordinary, And the pictures that I
Speaker 1: had was really when she started to rot, which was
Speaker 1: when she was forty, which I thought was old when
Speaker 1: I was a kid, and now being fifty three, like
Speaker 1: I realized, even when she was like fifty three, she
Speaker 1: looked like she always looked like she just all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, it escalated real fast. You can hang on
Speaker 1: to a disorder like that in your thirties, but I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's just like infinite dogyears. When you hit forty,
Speaker 1: she just deteriorated. And I always wanted people to see
Speaker 1: her in the way she was when she was young
Speaker 1: and beautiful. She wasn't even an interior designer. She was
Speaker 1: an interior architect, like doing her own drawing. She was
Speaker 1: a bad, badass. But the letters. I was on a
Speaker 1: Sunday and I was looking for photos because I was
Speaker 1: looking for these specific photos of when I remember being happy.
Speaker 1: This nature photo and I remember being happy, and then
Speaker 1: ones when I remember her being beautiful, like having the
Speaker 1: light before it went out. And I opened up these
Speaker 1: letters and it was I have the chills. I was
Speaker 1: like scream I was not like I was screaming. And
Speaker 1: they were all the same year, and it was a
Speaker 1: time that she had been to the institution and she
Speaker 1: had stopped drinking for a period and they were like
Speaker 1: barely account accountable, but just like you didn't have it easy,
Speaker 1: but you're my light. You're the love of my life
Speaker 1: because she did love me. And I feel like a fraudulence.
Speaker 1: And I had fun in my life and I traveled
Speaker 1: and I went to places and I had nice things,
Speaker 1: and my father's partner got me a Rolex at thirteen.
Speaker 1: Like I wasn't living like Panhands. I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: explain this, Like I never had fun. I went to Disneyland.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I was drinking alcohol and going to night
Speaker 1: clubs at thirteen, but I was having fun. I mean,
Speaker 1: it sounds crazy, it was not all.
Speaker 2: Bad, right, but those women, those letters seem like a window, right.
Speaker 2: I mean, at some point in your life you consciously
Speaker 2: chose to keep them.
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, we made that choice.
Speaker 2: And those letters are saying that you had it hard
Speaker 2: and I love you. I think that's what you wanted
Speaker 2: to hear all those years. And that's like a window
Speaker 2: of health that she had, almost like almost like a
Speaker 2: dementropatient kind of comes out one day and says, oh, Hi,
Speaker 2: you know they have a window of resemblance. But that's
Speaker 2: a window that you recognized of what you've always wanted.
Speaker 2: Very weird, but you didn't have the entire life. I
Speaker 2: think that's why you kept it, and that's why you
Speaker 2: had such a hard response to it, right, It's an
Speaker 2: emotional response to it.
Speaker 1: It was I've never gone in a cabinet. It was
Speaker 1: so strange. Why I do believe in all these other
Speaker 1: energy you moved?
Speaker 2: How many times you've always took those with you.
Speaker 1: Yes, I haven't seen it for I haven't seen it
Speaker 1: for thirty years. No, exactly, I've never seen I've never
Speaker 1: seen them since they were written. As what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: I don't know where they came from. It was very
Speaker 1: strange and they were on Ziggi and Hello Kitty stationary
Speaker 1: that was my childhood stationary that she had kept and
Speaker 1: written them on. It was like, very strange, it was traumatic,
Speaker 1: but it did break something open. Yeah, yeah, it did
Speaker 1: break something open. And what about specific eating disorders? What
Speaker 1: makes someone choose a specific or it chooses them? Or
Speaker 1: what is bolimia in this she was blaming you with
Speaker 1: with with lax it is, which I think is a
Speaker 1: version of blaemia. Also, what is that? What is what
Speaker 1: is that versus being at arexic or some other thing
Speaker 1: exercise or ecxic or whatever.
Speaker 2: You know, what I can tell you is that eating
Speaker 2: disorder is believing specifically. You know, they're they're anxiety disorders, right,
Speaker 2: So it's it's when we have an anxiety disorder, it's
Speaker 2: it's basically a need for control that we just don't
Speaker 2: have and trying to gain control in some way. So
Speaker 2: you know, look, if your mom, if your mom recognized
Speaker 2: that her beauty was the way she was getting through life,
Speaker 2: maybe she had that thought right you saw her as
Speaker 2: a badass, that she was so talented and all these
Speaker 2: other things. She may not have seen herself as that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but what about the fact that you aren't. She
Speaker 1: was so smart. Aren't you intellectually realizing that you're ruining
Speaker 1: your looks by vomiting the most disgusting shit all over yourself?
Speaker 2: That But at that point, that point, it's you don't.
Speaker 2: You're not seeing the reality. Right, there's a body dysmorphia
Speaker 2: going on where you're looking yourself in the mirror and
Speaker 2: you see something vastly different than what's really there. Right,
Speaker 2: that's by this morphic disorder is something that's very real
Speaker 2: and affects people in all different areas. But what she
Speaker 2: could be experiencing that is being so afraid of losing
Speaker 2: her youth, so afraid. I think I heard you say
Speaker 2: something that she got really mean to you verbally mean
Speaker 2: later on, like when you were in your twenties, she was.
Speaker 1: She was always verbally mean.
Speaker 2: She's always verbally yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's saving.
Speaker 2: But again saying that.
Speaker 1: She had got more, it got more, Yeah, it got heightened.
Speaker 1: Well that way.
Speaker 2: When it got worse or heightened is exactly when you
Speaker 2: said that it got it got escalated for her, right
Speaker 2: her forties, you're.
Speaker 1: Twenty oh oh, her eating just a well, no being
Speaker 1: caught escalated. I think. I mean, of course it's not
Speaker 1: going to be the same when you're younger and dabbling
Speaker 1: in it. But I was seven, she was twenty seven,
Speaker 1: so I don't know when it started. I think it
Speaker 1: started when she was sixteen.
Speaker 2: No I'm saying. I'm saying it got worse. And how
Speaker 2: when she was loose, when she realized she was losing
Speaker 2: her beauty and losing that avenue, that that vehicle for that,
Speaker 2: I could see how she right, she would become more vicious.
Speaker 2: She become more vicious for herself or vicious for you.
Speaker 2: You know, I wish I was you, as I wish
Speaker 2: I would your life. I wish I was yous. A. Yes,
Speaker 2: that's a that's worse than a left handed compliment, right,
Speaker 2: you know it's it's that's a really harmful, hurtful thing
Speaker 2: to say.
Speaker 1: She's that's so funny because I've never saw it that
Speaker 1: way as a kid, but she said it to me
Speaker 1: so many times. She wanted my life right, And I
Speaker 1: didn't see it as harmful. I just saw it. But
Speaker 1: she said it from when I was a really young kid.
Speaker 1: I remember that being a thing, and I remember other
Speaker 1: people reacting to it the way you are thinking that,
Speaker 1: but I didn't. I'd all think it.
Speaker 2: I like we could tease. I tease my kids all
Speaker 2: the time. Yeah, I wish I had.
Speaker 1: Your life, right, you know, no, different, different.
Speaker 2: Way different. It's way different. And I think that that's
Speaker 2: what that's what she was doing. You know that it
Speaker 2: was looking It wasn't about you, It was about what
Speaker 2: she didn't have, what she lost.
Speaker 1: Well, she also said she gave her life for me
Speaker 1: many times and stayed with these men for me. I
Speaker 1: stayed with these men for you, Like it's a very.
Speaker 2: So that's not a lot and a lot of guilt, right,
Speaker 2: So you experienced a ton of guilt, I would imagine, right,
Speaker 2: and not from her resent her resentment.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just know that I remember that
Speaker 1: statement my whole life, like it's I don't remember a
Speaker 1: lot of things. And even before this past week of
Speaker 1: like two weeks of going through it, those always stuck
Speaker 1: with me, like I gave up my life for you,
Speaker 1: like that was That's like a stain that's been on
Speaker 1: me my whole.
Speaker 2: Life, right, all right, all right, So so say so
Speaker 2: what kind of stain, like how did that affect how
Speaker 2: does that affect your your behavior. It's an interesting statement
Speaker 2: to make. It's a stain of my life. That's powerful.
Speaker 1: So what why I mean, I think I intellectually did
Speaker 1: not believe it. But also I don't think I under
Speaker 1: it related to money a lot. I think it has
Speaker 1: everything to do with going to make your own money.
Speaker 1: I mean, money is such a massive you know, it's
Speaker 1: ironic because I could be a billionaire if I wanted
Speaker 1: to by killing, you know, killing myself. And I love
Speaker 1: my free time and I have a good balance, and
Speaker 1: there's a million things I've turned down, way more than
Speaker 1: I've taken. So I can't say that money like It's
Speaker 1: not like I see people like the Kardashians. They take,
Speaker 1: they go for all of it, like I've had so
Speaker 1: many opportunities I've turned down. So it's not that I'm
Speaker 1: been obsessed with it, because that's not the case. But
Speaker 1: my whole life I've been acutely aware of never wanting
Speaker 1: to have to depend on a man for money. I
Speaker 1: mean since I was extremely young, and it was exasperating
Speaker 1: even when I was broke in my late thirties and
Speaker 1: had I had a man who I loved say give
Speaker 1: up this business, and why are you doing all this
Speaker 1: and why are you killing yourself? I'll take care of you,
Speaker 1: and I still it sounded so easy, and in some
Speaker 1: one part of me I wanted to be I was
Speaker 1: fighting myself because I've always wanted a man to financially
Speaker 1: take care of me, but then I would never do it.
Speaker 1: I could never gold dig or It's like it's been
Speaker 1: this complete rub where I would love. I love a
Speaker 1: man to take care of me and shower me because
Speaker 1: I have that from my childhood, but could never really
Speaker 1: really allow them to. I could never really want to, like,
Speaker 1: you know, share property or like anything like that.
Speaker 3: It's time to hear her side of the story.
Speaker 1: I love the show so much. I was like, please
Speaker 1: throw my name in the mix. I need to be
Speaker 1: in on this.
Speaker 3: We were sure she was going to be the next
Speaker 3: bachelorette and then something changed.
Speaker 1: I'm keeping things very very hush hush.
Speaker 3: Fans of The Bachelor know exactly what we're talking about.
Speaker 3: Joe and Serena sit down for an intimate conversation with
Speaker 3: Maria Georgis on Bachelor Happy Hour.
Speaker 2: I have to ask, I heard a rumor that you
Speaker 2: were dating at one point one of Drake's best friends.
Speaker 1: Oh, we have more Sayami.
Speaker 3: Listen to Bachelor Happy Hour on America's number one podcast network, iHeart,
Speaker 3: open your free iHeart app and search Bachelor Happy Hour.
Speaker 3: Listen now everywhere, listen to podcasts, and don't miss part
Speaker 3: two Monday Night.
Speaker 1: So what do you have to say to people who
Speaker 1: are witnessing generational trauma in their own life? They know
Speaker 1: they're in a relationship with someone, they've just experienced death.
Speaker 1: They don't know what to do with it, you know
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. What do you what do you
Speaker 1: blanket statements say about that?
Speaker 2: So? I guess you know. The most important thing is
Speaker 2: is too is to treat yourself with grace. Right, we
Speaker 2: have to treat ourselves with grace. I don't think we
Speaker 2: do that enough, especially when you're bad about yourself, right
Speaker 2: we we we are really good at being angry at us.
Speaker 2: Our internal voices are are are scary, right, and mean
Speaker 2: and difficult, and they're just they're playing assholes, right, I mean,
Speaker 2: they just though So I think that when we realize
Speaker 2: that those thoughts that we're having are simply thoughts, right,
Speaker 2: they're just thoughts. They're not truths, their thoughts, and that
Speaker 2: they those thoughts can be easily swayed and changed based
Speaker 2: upon our past experiences. Then we could take some of
Speaker 2: that sting out of them and allow ourselves to be treated,
Speaker 2: to treat ourselves with grace, to know that, and to
Speaker 2: redefine who we are, what we're about. And maybe not
Speaker 2: everything that happened had to do with us per se. Right,
Speaker 2: We're just wrong place, wrong time. Right. Who's to say
Speaker 2: you know that the reason why I was treated a
Speaker 2: certain way is because.
Speaker 1: I deserve has anything to do with me any Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: People we take the way we're treated as kids extremely personally,
Speaker 2: which sounds ridiculous. Right of course we do, but many
Speaker 2: times it's not personal, has more to do with the
Speaker 2: other person will have to do with us, right, right.
Speaker 1: And it's funny when I you said, they want to
Speaker 1: get it off them. They're miserable, they're unhappy, it's toxin.
Speaker 1: They want to throw it up, they want to get
Speaker 1: it out.
Speaker 2: I want to get it out like a drowning victim.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter who's rescuing, and they just want to
Speaker 2: get up. So I got to push down whoever is
Speaker 2: in front of them to get up.
Speaker 1: Yes, what about yeah, exactly? What about people who can't
Speaker 1: afford therapy for me. I think there are a lot
Speaker 1: of online therapy options. But also I think with the internet,
Speaker 1: like I've I there was something that I looked up. Oh,
Speaker 1: I didn't really know about formative years. I've heard it.
Speaker 1: I studied psychology and college. I forgot, but I didn't
Speaker 1: really realize if by ate like you're formed as a
Speaker 1: human in many ways, Like that's insane. That makes a
Speaker 1: lot of sense now I thought of that that last
Speaker 1: week of all the shit that was happening to me
Speaker 1: between childhood, how many homes i'd been in and eight
Speaker 1: years old, Now I realize a lot Like so I
Speaker 1: think that people just using the internet with these terms,
Speaker 1: these generational trauma terms or anxiety disorder or alcoholism or
Speaker 1: I feel like people can find a decent amount on
Speaker 1: the internet to help themselves.
Speaker 2: They can, But you know, it scares me. It worries me,
Speaker 2: right because there's so much misinformation on the internet as
Speaker 2: well fair so much it's misuffair.
Speaker 1: But then support groups something that's economical.
Speaker 2: There's definitely a lot. There's definitely a lot of support groups.
Speaker 2: There's definitely a lot of more economical ways. I think
Speaker 2: mental health we're in We're in a mental health renaissance
Speaker 2: right now, I think right where it's more accepted, people
Speaker 2: are talking about it more. It's more in our common ridacular. Right.
Speaker 2: I have so many of my teenage patients telling their friends, yeah,
Speaker 2: I can't get together because I have there after that day, right,
Speaker 2: I mean right, fifteen twenty years ago that was not
Speaker 2: the case, right. Never. I think that you do have
Speaker 2: to be careful where you get information from, where you
Speaker 2: get advice from. There's a lot of bad characters, right,
Speaker 2: bad actors in any field, including mine. Unfortunately, it worries me.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, health insurance is a totally different topic.
Speaker 2: We can talk a whole thing about where you know,
Speaker 2: the health insurance companies aren't really here to help us, right,
Speaker 2: They're not the profits. So it's hard. It's it's definitely
Speaker 2: hard to find. And I think there's a scarcity around.
Speaker 2: And I'll be honest with you in that in that vacuum,
Speaker 2: there have been other other agencies and different people who
Speaker 2: have offered help that may not be as qualified. I
Speaker 2: think the most important thing that I'm gonna should suggest
Speaker 2: to people is to not give up finding that right person.
Speaker 2: It's not necessarily the you know. I know, I know
Speaker 2: some social workers who were great. I know some psychologists
Speaker 2: who are great. I know some social workers were awful
Speaker 2: and psychologist.
Speaker 1: No, it's a it's a chemistry thing. It's like the
Speaker 1: same thing. You could go into vinyasa yoga. You could
Speaker 1: go into hot yoga. You think you hate yoga because
Speaker 1: you didn't go into the right class. You could think
Speaker 1: about like lettuce because you had a rogola, not on dive.
Speaker 1: Whatever it is.
Speaker 2: I agree. I agree with that, keep going and tell
Speaker 2: your story over and over and over again until you
Speaker 2: find that one person that you feel comfortable with. And
Speaker 2: sometimes and.
Speaker 1: Different people are good for different things, like this guy
Speaker 1: that I know for years, a life coach. It's more
Speaker 1: like not worrying about happened to you when you were
Speaker 1: a child, but like intervening in your behavior now. Some
Speaker 1: people want to get all the way back, and it's
Speaker 1: like a toolkit. You can use different people for different things.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, wow, all right, well this was amazing
Speaker 1: and very grateful and I think will help a lot
Speaker 1: of people. And I want to keep this conversation going
Speaker 1: here about these different things because I haven't been I
Speaker 1: didn't realize I hadn't been willing to talk about any
Speaker 1: of this myself in my own life, and it's easier
Speaker 1: to for it to be tangible because people know me
Speaker 1: and they know that they really don't know so much
Speaker 1: about me. So so many people have so many things
Speaker 1: that most people don't really know what's going on with them.
Speaker 2: And you know, I think what's it's a beautiful thing
Speaker 2: is that you're also learning, you know, learning who you
Speaker 2: are along with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, of course, which is which is.
Speaker 2: Great, you know, And I think that are our own
Speaker 2: personal evolution should never end, never end, right, We continue
Speaker 2: to grow and learn about ourselves and how we got
Speaker 2: here and where we want to continue to go. And
Speaker 2: I think that's super important. So I'm thankful for and
Speaker 2: grateful that you gave me this opportunity to thank you.
Speaker 2: Thank you, and uh no, like, keep the conversation going.
Speaker 1: It's great, all right, good, we'll talk soon. Thanks.
Speaker 2: Take care