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Speaker 1: Hi, How are you good?

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Speaker 2: Thanks? How are you doing?

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Speaker 1: I'm good? So you've been on here once before? Can

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Speaker 1: you tell everybody what are you? Because I have a

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Speaker 1: woman who I work with who's a psychoanalyst. I've been

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Speaker 1: working with her for years. I never knew exactly what

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Speaker 1: she is. She could be a b diatrist for all

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Speaker 1: I know. She's very, very helpful, and she listens and

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Speaker 1: she's smart. But she's a psychoanalyst. So what are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm a psychologist. I work what you would call a

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Speaker 2: CBT psychologist, so cognitive behavioral therapist. So within psychology there's

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Speaker 2: many different orientations how do we do things? So I

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Speaker 2: work a lot with people with the way that they

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Speaker 2: think their rational thoughts as opposed to their irrational thoughts,

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Speaker 2: how their irrational thoughts affect their behavior. But I take

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Speaker 2: it from a different approach. I take it from a

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Speaker 2: family systems approach where they come from.

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Speaker 1: So I specialize in family.

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Speaker 2: You know, doing what I do, it's hard not to

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Speaker 2: write because we all come from family. So if you

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Speaker 2: don't understand a healthy family dynamic or what an unhealthy

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Speaker 2: family dynamic creates, it's hard to do what you do.

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Speaker 2: So I specialize. I like to say, I specialize in people,

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Speaker 2: and I treat the person so a lot of anxiety,

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Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of depression, a lot of

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Speaker 2: trauma work. So it all depends on what they're bringing me.

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Speaker 2: I want to I think it's very important that we

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Speaker 2: look at that person and understand who they are and

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Speaker 2: where they come from and treat that.

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Speaker 1: And you work with kids and adults.

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Speaker 2: Correct.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I recently experienced a death and it's become

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Speaker 1: this conversation that has been surprisingly shockingly not shockingly, but

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Speaker 1: surprisingly engaging, because I think so many people are repressing

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Speaker 1: these discussions and not talking about it. People don't always

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Speaker 1: talk about sex, people don't always talk about money. People

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Speaker 1: certainly don't talk about death in like a complex way.

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Speaker 1: They'll talk about they experience the death, they're sad about

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Speaker 1: their situation, but there aren't these sort of cross channels

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Speaker 1: of discussion that I'm finding, particularly in women and the

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Speaker 1: what's going on. And it's sort of like there's like

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Speaker 1: a one size fits all death grieving model versus like

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Speaker 1: the different types which I sort of came to. So

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Speaker 1: I was realizing a couple things. I was realizing one

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Speaker 1: that there's obviously no right or wrong, but every single

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Speaker 1: type of death is different, and each death has a

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Speaker 1: different dynamic. So, like I've said, someone could be ninety

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Speaker 1: six years old, had a beautiful life, had a great family,

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Speaker 1: everything was healthy. That's sad they've been around so long.

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Speaker 1: Somebody else loses God forbid someone I can't even say

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Speaker 1: it out loud, but younger than them, or someone takes

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Speaker 1: their own life, or there's addiction, it's an unexpected accident,

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Speaker 1: and like each thing has a different tone to it.

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Speaker 1: And then as a cousin to that, there are many

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Speaker 1: different brands and types of grieving. I thought about all

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Speaker 1: of this during what I chose to do, just based

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Speaker 1: on my own gut, but there are many different types

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Speaker 1: of grieving. So I've seen really only Shiva and Catholic

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Speaker 1: and wake and everyone together and laughing and food and

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Speaker 1: flowers and jokes and getting drunk and stories and photos,

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Speaker 1: and I did not I've done that. But in my

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Speaker 1: recent loss of my mother, I feel like in both scenarios,

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Speaker 1: it was kind of an unusual circumstance with the death

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Speaker 1: and the grieving, So I kind of wanted to get

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Speaker 1: into both of those situations because me bringing up the

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Speaker 1: fact that it was a complicated relationship. You don't want

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Speaker 1: to be disingenuous and like act like you're like So

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Speaker 1: I was sobbing more than I was for people that

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Speaker 1: I had a good relationship with, which is crazy, but

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Speaker 1: I didn't want you don't want to be disingenuous where

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Speaker 1: you're acting like you had this amazing relationship. You're just

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Speaker 1: telling I was just telling the truth about what the

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Speaker 1: deal was, right. And then also it's not like it's

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Speaker 1: a very insular thing, this particular death. So I wasn't

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Speaker 1: like having a bunch of people over to tell me

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Speaker 1: how great it was and as she lit up the room,

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Speaker 1: so it was like a different deal. So what do

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Speaker 1: you have Let's we'll get into details after. But what

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Speaker 1: do you have to say about both of those constructs?

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Speaker 2: No, I think that's very interesting and something that we

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Speaker 2: don't really give enough credit to is that other kind

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Speaker 2: of deaths be more and also so the death of

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Speaker 2: a relationship, when the death of a job or a

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Speaker 2: situation or an experience, right, there are many things we mourn,

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Speaker 2: and there are many things that trigger our responses in

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Speaker 2: the same way when things don't happen. So when you

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Speaker 2: had when you say you had a complicated relationship with

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Speaker 2: your mom when she passed, Yes, you could be mourning

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Speaker 2: the passing of your mom, but you can also be

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Speaker 2: mourning the potential of a better relationship with her. You

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Speaker 2: could be mourning having that sadness of mourning the loss

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Speaker 2: of a childhood that you wish you had. There's so

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Speaker 2: many there's so many more complication and complicated layers to

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Speaker 2: that that it's not you know, it doesn't say enough

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Speaker 2: to to say, yeah, I'm sad, I'm mourning the loss,

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Speaker 2: because it's it's how many losses. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: losses there.

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Speaker 1: Right, And what was shocking to me different than any

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Speaker 1: other time. Sometimes the stages agree for predictable what people say.

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Speaker 1: But in this particular grieving, it was like coming out

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Speaker 1: of my body in ways that I wasn't expecting. Like

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Speaker 1: I was not you're right, like you couldn't help, but

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Speaker 1: you were just feeling. And it was like I was

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Speaker 1: a going to the movie of my entire life that

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Speaker 1: I haven't watched ever. I've never watched the movie. I

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Speaker 1: haven't allowed myself to go in and see that movie.

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Speaker 1: It's too hard a movie. So I watched the movie

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Speaker 1: part of the movie was super like happy moments as

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Speaker 1: a child. Part was frustration for like not being able

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Speaker 1: to continue that and like why. Part was the person

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Speaker 1: who passed away, like mourning them, like their poor life,

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Speaker 1: like my poor life, their poor life. The loss wasn't

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Speaker 1: really the thing. I was mourning because I didn't really

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Speaker 1: have a great relationship. I was mourning. I was feeling

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Speaker 1: sorry for myself in many of the cases. And I

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Speaker 1: also could only live in that movie. And then after

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Speaker 1: like a couple of weeks, it just like it passed

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Speaker 1: like the movie was over and I thought I would

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Speaker 1: never get out of this movie good and bad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's funny with It's an interesting

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Speaker 2: analogy that you make. But I'll disagree one thing when

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Speaker 2: you say that you never watched the movie, right, it's

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Speaker 2: sort of we don't go to movie theaters anymore, right,

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Speaker 2: But when you know, when you go to a movie

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Speaker 2: theater and you're waiting for your theater to open up,

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Speaker 2: but the other theaters are playing movies and you sort

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Speaker 2: of hear things you don't maybe you don't understand the dialogue.

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Speaker 2: You hear an explosion, you hear a car chase, you

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Speaker 2: hear some left. You hear traces of what that movie,

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Speaker 2: but you just don't know what that movie is going on.

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Speaker 2: Those memories that are really hard to understand, the really

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Speaker 2: hard to take, or memories that we had that were

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Speaker 2: so harmful and painful for us that we pushed back,

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Speaker 2: those are like that where they're there. It may not

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Speaker 2: be fully aware of them, then we may not be

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Speaker 2: fully in touch with them, but they're there and they're

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Speaker 2: affecting us, and they're going to affect our decisions that

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Speaker 2: we make and how we define who we are.

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Speaker 1: Right and your subconscious in a lot of way. So

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Speaker 1: it's weird how this was a pinata that cracked open.

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Speaker 1: I've worked with a psychoanalyst for years. She really didn't

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Speaker 1: she knows about me because it's drive by explanations. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that used to hap when I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: and that like you're saying, but it wasn't ever going

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Speaker 1: there and I and You're about to get on a rock.

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Speaker 1: It first happens and you are like, wait, what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen now? Like I remember getting the call and

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking, because for many years, I've thought what happens

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Speaker 1: the day that she dies? And I've thought it was

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Speaker 1: a drawer, and I'd be fine with it because it

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Speaker 1: was in a good relationship and it's not at all

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Speaker 1: what you're gonna expect. And all of a sudden you're

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Speaker 1: on this roller coaster and you're like, we're going on

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Speaker 1: a fucking ride right now, and you don't, and it's

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Speaker 1: about to start, and you're on the floor, collapsed in

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Speaker 1: the hallway, just like needing to be next to the

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Speaker 1: bathroom tile by yourself. And then you're in shock, and

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Speaker 1: then you're in denial, and then you're in sadness, and

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Speaker 1: then you only are willing to listen to one kind

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Speaker 1: of music, like a fucking weirdo, and you're up. I

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Speaker 1: still haven't slept a full night since it, right, but

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Speaker 1: like things, so you know.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'll tell you what though, when when I've

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Speaker 2: had people in therapy who will who will tell me

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Speaker 2: what their life was like, and they'll and they'll say

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Speaker 2: it like boom bom boom boom boom, sort of like

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Speaker 2: you real quick bullet points, this is what it was like,

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Speaker 2: and I I have to slow them down. So wait, waite,

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Speaker 2: what do you mean, what do you mean that happened?

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Speaker 2: And what did you experience? From that and what how

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Speaker 2: did you how did you experience that? How do you

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Speaker 2: define that? What does that mean to you? Right? And

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Speaker 2: I'll be honest with you, I stay away from that

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Speaker 2: real douchey psychology question. How does that make you feel?

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Speaker 2: I hate that question? Everybody that question, right, But you

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Speaker 2: want to want to get to that how do you

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Speaker 2: define that? What did that mean to you? Because then

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Speaker 2: when we slow things down there, it's like, well, I'm

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Speaker 2: in therapy and you know I'm doing the work well.

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Speaker 1: Because some people want to be well, it's like going

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Speaker 1: to the gym and just like saying, because you walked

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Speaker 1: in the gym, yes, but I will tell you this

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Speaker 1: from my perspective, and yes, my therapist has asked me

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Speaker 1: that too. It's something that often you're in preparation for

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Speaker 1: game day because the truth of the matter is you

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Speaker 1: saying how to them make you feel? Or whether you

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Speaker 1: say what was your experience or whatever you say, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Like this was like I'm not saying therapy.

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Speaker 1: Therapy is great and it's amazing, and it's like stretching

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Speaker 1: all the time, and when the big race comes then

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Speaker 1: you're kind of almost prepared but not quite. But I

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Speaker 1: will say, there's nothing like someone smashing that pinata with

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Speaker 1: a bat or doing ayahuasca people talk about, or doing

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Speaker 1: emdr or doing like this was not something that ten

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Speaker 1: years of therapy could do for me. Like people, I think,

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Speaker 1: you just have to be aware when the car crash

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Speaker 1: comes or when something happens, how you're going to brace

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Speaker 1: yourself or how you're going to deal with it. And

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Speaker 1: that's where I come up with the not going and

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Speaker 1: drinking and laughing and getting the pictures out and distracting,

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Speaker 1: Like I didn't like proactively choose my body, chose to

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Speaker 1: just lean all the way into it, to get outside

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Speaker 1: and take a walk, to listen to the music, to

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Speaker 1: cry through it. And I didn't know that I was

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Speaker 1: necessarily doing the right thing, but it's what I did.

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Speaker 2: M Well, maybe it was the right thing for that

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Speaker 2: moment and the right thing for you at that moment.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, Now I want to talk about this emotional trauma,

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Speaker 1: this generational trauma concept. I'd never really heard that term before.

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Speaker 1: My followers are so savvy, so smart. You everyon want

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Speaker 1: to learn something, go into my comments and read their experiences.

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Speaker 1: So I've gotten easily a thousand messages from people estranged

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Speaker 1: from this person that person it's complicated, or they're the parent,

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Speaker 1: or you know, like all of it. And this really

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Speaker 1: made people stop and think. So I felt like it

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Speaker 1: was great that I was taking on the responsibility of

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Speaker 1: at least if I made mistakes, or if I had

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Speaker 1: these experience, or if I didn't make mistakes, just having

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Speaker 1: this experience. I this has definitely helped a lot of

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Speaker 1: people on this conversation will but this generational trauma thing

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Speaker 1: where we know it but we don't really think about it,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't mean you have to do the same

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Speaker 1: negative thing. I know people who came from abusive backgrounds

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Speaker 1: and they're too kodily to their kids because it's a

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Speaker 1: pendulum the other way. But I did learn through this

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Speaker 1: process that my you know, mother, she her sister, and

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Speaker 1: her brother were beaten the absolute shit out of and

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Speaker 1: the brother, the uncle who did not choose to ever

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Speaker 1: have kids, who happens to live in the next town.

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Speaker 1: I found out he is more like me in the

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Speaker 1: sense that he went he was swat team, he was military,

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Speaker 1: he was cop, he was control flies helicopters like methodical

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Speaker 1: like you know, textbook control like me, organizing package like

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Speaker 1: you see the difference of how we all like managed.

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Speaker 1: But it also and you see whatever his father did.

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Speaker 1: But this was the sec the seventies. No one was cut.

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Speaker 1: I've had people come out and say now that they

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Speaker 1: lived next door to me in Rockville Center, Long Island,

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Speaker 1: and that they were worried for my safety because the

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Speaker 1: cops were there, and there was a lot of abuse

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Speaker 1: in my house. And it was the seventies. You drove drunk,

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Speaker 1: you didn't wear a seatbelt, you let your kids out

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Speaker 1: the back door, you smoke while you're pregnant. Like this

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Speaker 1: is why this is a whole different deal today my

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Speaker 1: life as a child, someone would be coming over to

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Speaker 1: the house and taking me out of there, right, So

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Speaker 1: what about all this generational trauma. A lot of these

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Speaker 1: moms that I'm talking to, these women are children of

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Speaker 1: the seventies and the sixties, and it's a different deal.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, So when you go back as far as that,

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Speaker 2: you can understand how people how their trum affects the

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Speaker 2: way they see themselves, right, and how it skews the

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Speaker 2: way that they see themselves and looking for that control.

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Speaker 2: It's an interesting word to use. Someone who's believing, like

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Speaker 2: your mom think about how controlling she was. I mean, outside,

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Speaker 2: her life must be very chaotic, right, But what's the

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Speaker 2: one thing she was able to control.

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Speaker 1: Well, she had that crutch of every meal going to

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Speaker 1: the bathroom afterwards. And it's so self loathing, and I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about that. I'm going to have an

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Speaker 1: ed expert on here too. But I'm sure you know

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Speaker 1: a decent amount about this. I have never seen. I've

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Speaker 1: heard of a lot of people in college. I've heard

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Speaker 1: a lot of people with eating disorders. My mother was

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Speaker 1: a brick shit house. She was ninety pounds. She would

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Speaker 1: come home from studio fifty four. My stepfather would lock

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Speaker 1: the door. She would smash her fist through the window.

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Speaker 1: I've seen her go head to head with truck drivers

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Speaker 1: and kick with her cowboy boot their truck. She was

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Speaker 1: a fucking bad bitch. Like she was insane and tough

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Speaker 1: and smart and strong and scary. And you can imagine

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Speaker 1: where I can be tough and strong and scary, but

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Speaker 1: it's under control. So I think about the fact that

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Speaker 1: she had she had a life long never once admitted

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Speaker 1: it to anyone. Every believe I've ever heard of has

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Speaker 1: admitted it to someone, or you hear the story later

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Speaker 1: or something. I've never heard of a person that I

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Speaker 1: have stood outside of a bathroom, heard her throwing up

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Speaker 1: for an hour and a half, gone in, seen it

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Speaker 1: around the toilet, smelled it, seeing it in her eyes,

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Speaker 1: all of it, and her lie about it my whole life.

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Speaker 1: And I've never before this experience thought about what the

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Speaker 1: hell that did to me. I was embarrassed of her.

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Speaker 1: I was I was shameful. I watched her lose her beauty.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want her to come over anyone's house. I

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Speaker 1: was always on edge, and she was always on edge,

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Speaker 1: smashing everything in the house, torturing waiters for the way

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Speaker 1: things were. And I think about what the hell that

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Speaker 1: life was like, how she survived, how she lived as

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Speaker 1: long as she even did right and every meal.

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Speaker 2: That effects of what that affects a child. So you

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Speaker 2: know how that's gonna affect your young set health, right,

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Speaker 2: And that if I'm better, she wouldn't be doing this.

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Speaker 2: If I'm a better kid, she wouldn't be doing that.

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Speaker 2: I'm not good enough, right, And hey, listen, maybe she

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Speaker 2: was thinking that too when she was growing up. If

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Speaker 2: I'm better, my dad won't beat on me. If I'm better,

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Speaker 2: my dad won't beat on my brother. Let's keep it calm,

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Speaker 2: let's keep it quiet. So we take as a child,

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Speaker 2: we take responsibility for the actions of our parents because

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Speaker 2: we put them up on pedestals. Not until later on

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Speaker 2: we realize that if we ever do, but by that

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Speaker 2: time we already have established the way we feel about ourselves,

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Speaker 2: our sense of self. And that's what's really damaging, is

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Speaker 2: that we take on responsibility of things that we don't

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Speaker 2: have any control over and then think that it's our

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Speaker 2: shortcoming that we can't fix it and change it, and

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Speaker 2: then we overcompensate for that later on in life. And

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Speaker 2: it can go either way. Either we feed into it

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Speaker 2: that I'm a piece of shit and I'm not good enough,

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Speaker 2: or we go over and we try to control and

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Speaker 2: become like almost narcissistic and like little kings in our kingdom,

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Speaker 2: and then become become abusive as well. So we can

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Speaker 2: fluctuate within that continuum. It doesn't have to be, but

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Speaker 2: many times we can see that. And then and then

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Speaker 2: we replicate those relationships, right, something that is something called

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Speaker 2: replication and rectification, right, So we can replicate a relationship

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Speaker 2: with somebody else that kind of makes us feel the

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Speaker 2: way that our parent made us feel. And because if

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Speaker 2: we can fix that person, then we're actually fixing our

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Speaker 2: parent and we're feeling better about ourselves.

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Speaker 1: And that's where you're saying, coming into being very aware

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Speaker 1: of where you come from when you're making choices with

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Speaker 1: a partner, and it could seem like it's in a

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Speaker 1: good package, but it could be for a different for sure.

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Speaker 2: For sure, and then you get that generational trump because

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Speaker 2: it continues onto the next one, onto the next one,

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Speaker 2: onto that.

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Speaker 1: It may not be directly with you and your kid.

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Speaker 1: It could be you with your husband, It could be

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Speaker 1: the choice.

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Speaker 2: It could be sad, of course, but if you pick

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Speaker 2: that spouse, that's unstable, right, the same level of instability

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Speaker 2: with a spouse. What kind of family dynamic are you

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Speaker 2: creating for your kid?

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Speaker 1: Right? Well, what's inferting.

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Speaker 2: But certainly atable one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel I can remember the resounding feeling that

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Speaker 1: people may relate to if they've been in the house

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Speaker 1: with I had an alcoholic and a boalimic chainsmoker, like

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Speaker 1: with then my stepfather gambler. There were always bookies coming

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Speaker 1: to my house and like gambling all the football games,

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Speaker 1: so I had a lot of addiction and physical abuse

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Speaker 1: in my house, so my resounding feeling was walking on

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Speaker 1: eggshells and always like worrying about what everybody else like.

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Speaker 1: I remember coming into my twenties like are those two

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Speaker 1: getting along with the table? Like everybody like reading every

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Speaker 1: situation in every room, which has been very good for

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Speaker 1: me in business because I can be in a boardroom

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Speaker 1: and understand what the hell everyone else is doing, thinking, saying, smelling.

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Speaker 1: I can read and eating disorder from two blocks away.

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Speaker 1: A nuance. I was on a show with someone and

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Speaker 1: it really triggered me because I can smell something before

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Speaker 1: anyone else can smell it. In lying and stealing and cheating,

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Speaker 1: I can feel it because and I had I had

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Speaker 1: never really made that connection. And Melinda, my therapist, said,

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Speaker 1: because I've seen things in other people that I've caught

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Speaker 1: really fast before even people in my life who are

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Speaker 1: around it more caught it. My stepfather was living with

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Speaker 1: my mother for all those years. I was the one

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Speaker 1: who let him know about the eating disorder. I just

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Speaker 1: from very young, from seeing all this physical abuse and

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Speaker 1: all this stuff, I just I just knew I could

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Speaker 1: clock anything anywhere. And it's kind of like being a

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Speaker 1: it's not great because it's like being a cop, you're

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Speaker 1: like constantly it's like that movie where Jim Carrey could

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Speaker 1: hear every single thing that everyone was thinking about it,

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Speaker 1: or Matthew McConaughey. It's kind of it's because you're so

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Speaker 1: your instrument is so in tuned to chaos and like dysfunction.

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Speaker 2: And it's the role that you had. Because if you're

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Speaker 2: so tuned into the dysfunction and the chaos, then your role,

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Speaker 2: like you called yourself a cop, well, what's the cops role?

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Speaker 2: To serve and protect, right, to make sure maintain order.

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Speaker 2: So your role there is to make sure everyone's okay?

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Speaker 2: How can you possibly be able to make everything okay?

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Speaker 1: How old were you started the fighting in the house,

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Speaker 1: right I have to call the cops was like five?

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Speaker 1: But the throwing up of seven that I first.

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Speaker 2: Caught it sure, So that a seven year old is

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Speaker 2: going to make sure everyone's okay or everyone is going

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Speaker 2: to be well and healthy, it's impossible. So you were

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Speaker 2: destined to fail. So how do we feel when we fail?

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Speaker 2: We don't feel good. Doesn't make us feel good. To

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Speaker 2: fail doesn't matter that what we're failing at is something

385
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Speaker 2: we can never do right. That doesn't matter. What matters

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Speaker 2: is that we fail and we feel like a failure.

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Speaker 2: And so that comes part of our building block of

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Speaker 2: who we think, oh, we are as a person, which

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Speaker 2: is why that drives people sometimes maybe such as yourself,

390
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Speaker 2: to be successful, but tries to prove that you are

391
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Speaker 2: you do have that worth.

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Speaker 1: It's all the time, yes, And I see that even

393
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Speaker 1: with my father, who treated me so poorly and he

394
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Speaker 1: was so successful, and he dangled it over his head

395
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Speaker 1: and he bragged, like to this day he's dead, and

396
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Speaker 1: I still want to shove my success up his ass.

397
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Speaker 1: Not my mother, because I have more compassion. My mother

398
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,480
Speaker 1: was jealousy. She wanted to be famous, she wanted to

399
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Speaker 1: be relevant, she wanted to be fashionable. She liked the

400
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 1: trappings and the nice things. But like Melinda would say,

401
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 1: like I'm living out their goals. She feels that there's

402
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Speaker 1: like a definite connection. Forget the skinny girl and alcohol, like,

403
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 1: oh my god, Freud is knocking on my door. But

404
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,680
Speaker 1: the because people always want to know where the drive

405
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 1: comes from. And sometimes I just simplify it to my

406
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 1: father as a hall of fame horse trainer, and he

407
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 1: was a He was a worker, and my mother to

408
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,439
Speaker 1: the day she died, I was a worker like I

409
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:57,159
Speaker 1: come from. No complain, no explain, no shortcut workers, you know,

410
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Speaker 1: put the exception of dysfunction from her, but they just

411
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 1: are there's a work ethic. But I think it's more

412
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Speaker 1: than that, like you're saying, like you were saying, drive,

413
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: that's like and it's and it's it's been insatiable. But

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Speaker 1: really recently, in the last couple of years, I keep

415
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Speaker 1: getting towards a point where I really won't do anything

416
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Speaker 1: that I don't want to do. And I don't go

417
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 1: just for money ever. But the more that I am

418
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Speaker 1: truthful about what I don't want to do and the

419
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Speaker 1: more that I say no, the more that walks in

420
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Speaker 1: the door, Like the more the tables get hot, the

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Speaker 1: more that I don't like desperately cling on to it right.

422
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Speaker 2: Right, Because you're starting to learn how to define success

423
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 2: and define yourself in different ways. And I think that

424
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 2: that's super important, right because as a child, when we

425
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Speaker 2: especially you don't think that you know, I'm just picturing

426
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Speaker 2: you as a five seven eight year old, nine year

427
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,439
Speaker 2: old and having people over and they're all gambling there

428
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Speaker 2: if they're focused on what they're gambling on. Right, Then

429
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Speaker 2: I focused on you, right, So then it's not it's

430
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Speaker 2: not you're you're you're a window dressing at that point. Right, So,

431
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 2: not only could a child feel like they're not good

432
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 2: enough because they're failing at their role, they're also not

433
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,679
Speaker 2: good enough because one's paying attention. Right. I think you

434
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,360
Speaker 2: mentioned that you're raised by wolves, right, like, no one,

435
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,199
Speaker 2: no one paid attention. You raised yourself, right, Well, if

436
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,920
Speaker 2: you were good, you were worthy, if you were worthy

437
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 2: of it, then they would have raised you. So that's

438
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 2: that's the pathological thought process that we can easily engage

439
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 2: in that were not conscious of it. Just it just

440
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 2: starts that way. Continue.

441
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,959
Speaker 1: You also have a lack of sometimes empathy because so

442
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: when I was no one ever made doctor's appointments for me.

443
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,879
Speaker 1: I remember having chicken pox and my friend no one

444
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: believed me, and I got one hundred and five fever.

445
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 1: My friend's parents had to take me to the hospital.

446
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 1: I broke, I fell down a scheme mount and ended

447
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: up in a helicopter. My my ex my exes fam like.

448
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: I was always clamoring for that, But I find that

449
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 1: people who grow up like that it's hard for them

450
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 1: to empathize with people who are whining about basic things,

451
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: you know, like other people that are like that have

452
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 1: things handed to them. You're almost are jealous or like

453
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: you just don't have a lot of tolerance for people

454
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: that are like complaining and explaining.

455
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 2: Sure, of course, of course, and it brings up a

456
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 2: you know, you have to put up a little wall

457
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 2: there too, that you don't want to get close to

458
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 2: those people because they have it so easy obviously not

459
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 2: like me, because they were good enough to get that easy.

460
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 2: And I find interesting too. And when you get older

461
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 2: and get to those teen years and you start picking

462
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 2: your partners and you get to your twenties, I find

463
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 2: a lot of times people will push healthy people away

464
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 2: from them because there's something about me that isn't right right.

465
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 2: I'm growing up always thinking that there's something about me

466
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 2: with something that that's not right. I may not be

467
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 2: able to put my finger on it per se, but

468
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 2: I know there's something there. So what's wrong with this

469
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 2: person that they like me? They seem so good, don't

470
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 2: they see what I see? That there's something that right

471
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 2: about me? So there's something wrong with them? Or I'm

472
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 2: not worthy of that, so I'm gonna push them away.

473
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go towards someone who may not treat me well,

474
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 2: who may not treat me that great, who may be

475
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 2: somewhat of a liar here, or you know, cuts the

476
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 2: corner there and turns into something bigger later on, because well,

477
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 2: that's what I'm used to, right, and that's what I'm worth.

478
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 2: And of course they're not healthy. They like me so,

479
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 2: and that's that's sort of how we perpetuate what we'd learned.

480
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: Yes, but it also could be like I remember younger,

481
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: this is all change. I'm older now. You really don't

482
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: realize anything until you get older. But like I used

483
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: to be, you know, I used to get a bad

484
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: haircut and my stepfather would take us down to Florida,

485
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 1: or we go to Vegas and go to the craps table,

486
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 1: like action junkie. You know, that explains a lot of

487
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: how I am. Like, let's go, let's do it, let's

488
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: figure it out, let's solve it, let's go do three

489
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars in relief, no problem. You know I

490
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: had had somebody once say to me, and now you're

491
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: gonna see what I was like on the basketball court.

492
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: And I was talking to my stepfather the other day

493
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: after a while, and he was like the basketball court.

494
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: I was like the racetrack, Like it becomes like I

495
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 1: literally grew up at a place where it's the fastest

496
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: sport period. Like it's just action and gambling and drinking

497
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: and money and highs and lows. So it's hard to

498
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: you know, I do crave stability, and I'm so much

499
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: of a homebody. Thank God, I want that direction. But

500
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 1: it's hard to get to that place.

501
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 2: And it took it. Did it take you time to

502
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 2: get to that place.

503
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: Totally? And you don't even know you're on the the

504
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: role code, you don't even know you're on the racetrack,

505
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: You're just on the race. Well yeah, I mean all

506
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 1: those years before I had a kid, it was great

507
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: that I had kid, lad because I was running on

508
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: that racetrack like a.

509
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 2: Maniac, right right, and there was probably you know, there's

510
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 2: that part of you that was healthy. I mean no

511
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 2: one's all you know, holy unhealthy where you have healthy parties, right,

512
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 2: so that healthy part of you and you I have

513
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 2: to wait, right, I'm not I'm not ready for that.

514
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 2: I have to through this until I'm ready for that

515
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 2: next part of my life. And I think that that's

516
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 2: that's very telling. I mean, that's very good.

517
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: So what about well two qu what about memories and

518
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: flashes of sexual abuse that your mind plays tricks on you?

519
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 1: You know it happened, you kind of pretend it didn't happen.

520
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:23,959
Speaker 1: There's nothing you can really do about. How does that

521
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: manifest itself? What what comes out in people with situations

522
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: like that? What does that create for them? Is it

523
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: lack because for me it would be lack of trust

524
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: of males?

525
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 2: I mean it can be for sure, right, it depends

526
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 2: on how what the age was? What was the age.

527
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:49,479
Speaker 1: Seven seven to seventeen or eighteen? And I say seventeen

528
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 1: or eighteen because in that case it was you're an adult.

529
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: But it's people that were in a parental figure, like

530
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 1: a very close family friend that you thought was family,

531
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: trying to sleep with you, but in a different way

532
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: because you're an adult now, like propositioning you and being

533
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: sleazy with you, where when you were younger, it was

534
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: people taking advantage of you. And in my case, my

535
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: whole entire childhood was being around a bunch of racetrack

536
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: degenerates at all times when if you know, you know,

537
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: there's horse trainer and my stepfather's a horse trainer, and

538
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: he had all these guys around with different nicknames, and

539
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: they were just always around the house. It was like

540
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: a degenerate posse and me and my mother was never there.

541
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: So my stepfather was there, which was admirable that he

542
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 1: was the only one staying with me when my mother

543
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: was away having affairs in Wales with this guy and

544
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: then went away to an institution. But I was always

545
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: with a bunch of different men, always just dropping me off,

546
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: picking me up like I was always of men. So

547
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: I can imagine what that was like with these race

548
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: track degenerates.

549
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,959
Speaker 2: Sure, sure, so there's definitely you definitely can create some

550
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 2: trust issues for sure. Right, it's very confusing. It's very

551
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 2: confusing for a child. You know that their their bodies

552
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 2: could betray them. Right as you get older, they betray

553
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 2: your body could react in certain ways, so your whole

554
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 2: idea of of sex and your sexuality gets in puts

555
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 2: a question you feel, No, there's a there's potential for

556
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 2: feeling abandoned and abandoned in different ways, right, so abandoned

557
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: by your mom who didn't protect you from them men

558
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 2: hyper sexualized of thinking that this is what you need

559
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: to do in order to get what you want.

560
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: You know, feeling it can go either way, or being

561
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: super repressed, being.

562
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: Super repressed that you know, the difficult thing about this

563
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 2: field that I'm in is that there it can go

564
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: either way, right, there's no hard truths to it, which

565
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 2: this is why it's very important to treat the person,

566
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: not the problem.

567
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: That's exactly right, So exactly because I have heard of

568
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: situations that you're talking about where a woman becomes extremely promiscuous,

569
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: and I experienced at an normally latent time to even

570
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: consider using any kind of a toy or masturbation or anything.

571
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: It was not even like it was never I don't

572
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: remember it ever being discussed with me, but it was

573
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: something that obviously you've heard about. It was like a

574
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: block until I mean into thirties, okay, and I remember

575
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: the first time I ever felt that I could trust

576
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: someone in a sexual situation.

577
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 2: Did you see it as a tool? Did you? How?

578
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 2: Did you? How do you ever do it?

579
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: No? It's a it's it's it's not it's not something

580
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: to do for just like only pleasure. It's something to

581
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: do to really connect with someone and you're then in

582
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: a relationship where there's an expectation from someone like someone

583
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: must someone would have to be legally bound to call

584
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: you if you've had sex with them, like that would

585
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: be the ultimate violation if they weren't. And even insex,

586
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: you don't trust people sometimes, right, right, even if you

587
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: even if you're in a relationship with them, you may

588
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: not trust their intentions.

589
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious. I'm curious as a child what you

590
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 2: how you understand to what mom was doing after she

591
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 2: came back from the hospital and beatn and then having

592
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 2: sex with her.

593
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: She I knew she despised it. I could tell obviously

594
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: she was doing it as an obligatory thing, right or

595
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: some like tumultuous highs and lows addiction thing. But there's

596
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: no way because that's where money came into and she

597
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: stayed with us. She used to tell me she stay

598
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,959
Speaker 1: with all these men because of the fact that they

599
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: supported her, and like there was all this information that

600
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: I was privy to. Yeah, there's a lot of noise

601
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: there for me with sex and money and all this

602
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: type of stuff because of all that stuff.

603
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: Right, and that you see, well, all those things that

604
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 2: swirl around you. They don't have anything to do with

605
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 2: you as a person. And that's when you say noise.

606
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 2: It distracts about who you are as a person. And

607
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 2: I mean you you, I mean us in general, but

608
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: it distracts who we do and how we define ourselves

609
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 2: as a person.

610
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, But we also can't a la carte menu

611
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: this thing. I wouldn't be so successful and be who

612
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: I am and be able to communicate in this way

613
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: and do this if I didn't have this background.

614
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a great I'm gonna reference a song

615
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 2: home Slash song Class of ninety nine always use your sunscreen.

616
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 2: I don't know if you ever heard it. It's great,

617
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 2: and it's basically giving advice. And one of the lines

618
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 2: is live in California, but lead before you get too soft,

619
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 2: and leave and live in New York, but lead before

620
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 2: you get too hard. Right, So yeah, I mean it's important.

621
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: I did both. I literally did both. I was in

622
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: California and left before I got too soft after ten.

623
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 2: Years, exactly right. So you know, when we have these

624
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 2: types of experiences, they don't necessarily have to entirely do us, right.

625
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 2: You don't have to end up on a dirty match

626
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 2: or somewhere with a hyperdertic meanal in your arm. Right,

627
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 2: you can use those to propel you to do things

628
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 2: that are healthier. But it's when you're not fully in

629
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: touch with things where it can go off the rails, right.

630
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: And I think that that's what's really important. And sometimes

631
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 2: things happen in our lives that will bring us back,

632
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: wake us up, ring that bell and realize, holy shit,

633
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: I got to make that change. I can't do it

634
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 2: too much. I have to make a shift, right, And

635
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: I think that that's important to listen to those to

636
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 2: listen to those bells. Right.

637
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: It's so true because this guy Breck that I know,

638
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: who's a life coach, he always he says he doesn't

639
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: believe an obligation and doing things just because you have to.

640
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: And it's funny, like I often see people with other

641
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: people that are abusive to them or mean to them

642
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: or family members, they tolerate it. It's the dynamic and

643
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: it's I believe negativity like it's contagious, it like gets

644
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: on you. I don't want it anywhere near me. And

645
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: when I was talking to a friend from high school,

646
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: because I've opened up and started to reconnect, I've talked

647
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: to my uncle. I talked to friends. I opened up

648
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: a door I haven't opened up in years, and one

649
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: of them just said it the best. She said, it

650
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: feels like because I've felt guilt, And what about these

651
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: letters that she wrote me saying she loved me and

652
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: should I have gone there six months ago? And all

653
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: this stuff, and like it was remembering things like only

654
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: I was remembering no bad. I was like delusional. She said,

655
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: it sounds like you had to let go or you

656
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: both would have drowned. Because I always needed a justification.

657
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: I would talk to different therapists about the fact that

658
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: I just stucked this in a drawer and was not

659
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: opening it because every time I opened it it was

660
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: utterly nasty, utterly abusive, just felt like a place I

661
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: didn't want to be. And I didn't want that on

662
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: my daughter at all. Even when it started to get

663
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: on my daughter a little in certain language and talking

664
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: about my mother, you know, oh I gained fifteen pounds

665
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: even though she was eighty pounds, or you know, saying

666
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: just some nasty things like I was like, I shut

667
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: it down. I didn't want any of that on my kid.

668
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: Do you have any idea why you may have kept

669
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 2: those letters. Come come.

670
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: I didn't know I had I didn't even know I

671
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: had them. I didn't even know I had them, and

672
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: they were only from one period, and I was looking

673
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: for a photo, and I was like, what the it

674
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: was on my most raw day. She died Friday Sunday.

675
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: I was literally I'd been obsessing over these pictures of

676
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: when she looked beautiful, because her vanity was such a thing,

677
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: and her beauty was extraordinary, And the pictures that I

678
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: had was really when she started to rot, which was

679
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: when she was forty, which I thought was old when

680
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: I was a kid, and now being fifty three, like

681
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: I realized, even when she was like fifty three, she

682
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: looked like she always looked like she just all of

683
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: a sudden, it escalated real fast. You can hang on

684
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: to a disorder like that in your thirties, but I

685
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: don't know, it's just like infinite dogyears. When you hit forty,

686
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: she just deteriorated. And I always wanted people to see

687
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: her in the way she was when she was young

688
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: and beautiful. She wasn't even an interior designer. She was

689
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: an interior architect, like doing her own drawing. She was

690
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: a bad, badass. But the letters. I was on a

691
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 1: Sunday and I was looking for photos because I was

692
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: looking for these specific photos of when I remember being happy.

693
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: This nature photo and I remember being happy, and then

694
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: ones when I remember her being beautiful, like having the

695
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: light before it went out. And I opened up these

696
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: letters and it was I have the chills. I was

697
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: like scream I was not like I was screaming. And

698
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: they were all the same year, and it was a

699
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: time that she had been to the institution and she

700
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: had stopped drinking for a period and they were like

701
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: barely account accountable, but just like you didn't have it easy,

702
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: but you're my light. You're the love of my life

703
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,959
Speaker 1: because she did love me. And I feel like a fraudulence.

704
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: And I had fun in my life and I traveled

705
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: and I went to places and I had nice things,

706
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: and my father's partner got me a Rolex at thirteen.

707
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: Like I wasn't living like Panhands. I'm not trying to

708
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: explain this, Like I never had fun. I went to Disneyland.

709
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: I'm sure I was drinking alcohol and going to night

710
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: clubs at thirteen, but I was having fun. I mean,

711
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 1: it sounds crazy, it was not all.

712
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: Bad, right, but those women, those letters seem like a window, right.

713
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 2: I mean, at some point in your life you consciously

714
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:45,959
Speaker 2: chose to keep them.

715
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, we made that choice.

716
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 2: And those letters are saying that you had it hard

717
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 2: and I love you. I think that's what you wanted

718
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 2: to hear all those years. And that's like a window

719
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 2: of health that she had, almost like almost like a

720
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 2: dementropatient kind of comes out one day and says, oh, Hi,

721
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 2: you know they have a window of resemblance. But that's

722
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 2: a window that you recognized of what you've always wanted.

723
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 2: Very weird, but you didn't have the entire life. I

724
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 2: think that's why you kept it, and that's why you

725
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 2: had such a hard response to it, right, It's an

726
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 2: emotional response to it.

727
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: It was I've never gone in a cabinet. It was

728
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: so strange. Why I do believe in all these other

729
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:26,720
Speaker 1: energy you moved?

730
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: How many times you've always took those with you.

731
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: Yes, I haven't seen it for I haven't seen it

732
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: for thirty years. No, exactly, I've never seen I've never

733
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: seen them since they were written. As what I'm saying,

734
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: I don't know where they came from. It was very

735
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: strange and they were on Ziggi and Hello Kitty stationary

736
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: that was my childhood stationary that she had kept and

737
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: written them on. It was like, very strange, it was traumatic,

738
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: but it did break something open. Yeah, yeah, it did

739
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: break something open. And what about specific eating disorders? What

740
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: makes someone choose a specific or it chooses them? Or

741
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 1: what is bolimia in this she was blaming you with

742
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: with with lax it is, which I think is a

743
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: version of blaemia. Also, what is that? What is what

744
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: is that versus being at arexic or some other thing

745
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: exercise or ecxic or whatever.

746
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 2: You know, what I can tell you is that eating

747
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 2: disorder is believing specifically. You know, they're they're anxiety disorders, right,

748
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 2: So it's it's when we have an anxiety disorder, it's

749
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 2: it's basically a need for control that we just don't

750
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 2: have and trying to gain control in some way. So

751
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 2: you know, look, if your mom, if your mom recognized

752
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,240
Speaker 2: that her beauty was the way she was getting through life,

753
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 2: maybe she had that thought right you saw her as

754
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 2: a badass, that she was so talented and all these

755
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 2: other things. She may not have seen herself as that.

756
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, but what about the fact that you aren't. She

757
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: was so smart. Aren't you intellectually realizing that you're ruining

758
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 1: your looks by vomiting the most disgusting shit all over yourself?

759
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 2: That But at that point, that point, it's you don't.

760
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 2: You're not seeing the reality. Right, there's a body dysmorphia

761
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: going on where you're looking yourself in the mirror and

762
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 2: you see something vastly different than what's really there. Right,

763
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: that's by this morphic disorder is something that's very real

764
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 2: and affects people in all different areas. But what she

765
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 2: could be experiencing that is being so afraid of losing

766
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 2: her youth, so afraid. I think I heard you say

767
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,439
Speaker 2: something that she got really mean to you verbally mean

768
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 2: later on, like when you were in your twenties, she was.

769
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 1: She was always verbally mean.

770
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 2: She's always verbally yeah.

771
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's saving.

772
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 2: But again saying that.

773
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: She had got more, it got more, Yeah, it got heightened.

774
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: Well that way.

775
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 2: When it got worse or heightened is exactly when you

776
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 2: said that it got it got escalated for her, right

777
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:44,760
Speaker 2: her forties, you're.

778
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: Twenty oh oh, her eating just a well, no being

779
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: caught escalated. I think. I mean, of course it's not

780
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 1: going to be the same when you're younger and dabbling

781
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 1: in it. But I was seven, she was twenty seven,

782
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: so I don't know when it started. I think it

783
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:55,720
Speaker 1: started when she was sixteen.

784
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 2: No I'm saying. I'm saying it got worse. And how

785
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 2: when she was loose, when she realized she was losing

786
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 2: her beauty and losing that avenue, that that vehicle for that,

787
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 2: I could see how she right, she would become more vicious.

788
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 2: She become more vicious for herself or vicious for you.

789
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 2: You know, I wish I was you, as I wish

790
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 2: I would your life. I wish I was yous. A. Yes,

791
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 2: that's a that's worse than a left handed compliment, right,

792
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 2: you know it's it's that's a really harmful, hurtful thing

793
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 2: to say.

794
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: She's that's so funny because I've never saw it that

795
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: way as a kid, but she said it to me

796
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: so many times. She wanted my life right, And I

797
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: didn't see it as harmful. I just saw it. But

798
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 1: she said it from when I was a really young kid.

799
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,919
Speaker 1: I remember that being a thing, and I remember other

800
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: people reacting to it the way you are thinking that,

801
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: but I didn't. I'd all think it.

802
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 2: I like we could tease. I tease my kids all

803
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 2: the time. Yeah, I wish I had.

804
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: Your life, right, you know, no, different, different.

805
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: Way different. It's way different. And I think that that's

806
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 2: what that's what she was doing. You know that it

807
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 2: was looking It wasn't about you, It was about what

808
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 2: she didn't have, what she lost.

809
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: Well, she also said she gave her life for me

810
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: many times and stayed with these men for me. I

811
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: stayed with these men for you, Like it's a very.

812
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,720
Speaker 2: So that's not a lot and a lot of guilt, right,

813
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: So you experienced a ton of guilt, I would imagine, right,

814
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 2: and not from her resent her resentment.

815
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just know that I remember that

816
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: statement my whole life, like it's I don't remember a

817
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: lot of things. And even before this past week of

818
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: like two weeks of going through it, those always stuck

819
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: with me, like I gave up my life for you,

820
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: like that was That's like a stain that's been on

821
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: me my whole.

822
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 2: Life, right, all right, all right, So so say so

823
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 2: what kind of stain, like how did that affect how

824
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 2: does that affect your your behavior. It's an interesting statement

825
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: to make. It's a stain of my life. That's powerful.

826
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 1: So what why I mean, I think I intellectually did

827
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 1: not believe it. But also I don't think I under

828
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: it related to money a lot. I think it has

829
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: everything to do with going to make your own money.

830
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: I mean, money is such a massive you know, it's

831
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: ironic because I could be a billionaire if I wanted

832
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 1: to by killing, you know, killing myself. And I love

833
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: my free time and I have a good balance, and

834
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: there's a million things I've turned down, way more than

835
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: I've taken. So I can't say that money like It's

836
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: not like I see people like the Kardashians. They take,

837
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: they go for all of it, like I've had so

838
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,919
Speaker 1: many opportunities I've turned down. So it's not that I'm

839
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: been obsessed with it, because that's not the case. But

840
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: my whole life I've been acutely aware of never wanting

841
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: to have to depend on a man for money. I

842
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: mean since I was extremely young, and it was exasperating

843
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: even when I was broke in my late thirties and

844
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: had I had a man who I loved say give

845
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: up this business, and why are you doing all this

846
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: and why are you killing yourself? I'll take care of you,

847
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: and I still it sounded so easy, and in some

848
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: one part of me I wanted to be I was

849
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: fighting myself because I've always wanted a man to financially

850
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: take care of me, but then I would never do it.

851
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 1: I could never gold dig or It's like it's been

852
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: this complete rub where I would love. I love a

853
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: man to take care of me and shower me because

854
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: I have that from my childhood, but could never really

855
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: really allow them to. I could never really want to, like,

856
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: you know, share property or like anything like that.

857
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 3: It's time to hear her side of the story.

858
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: I love the show so much. I was like, please

859
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: throw my name in the mix. I need to be

860
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: in on this.

861
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 3: We were sure she was going to be the next

862
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 3: bachelorette and then something changed.

863
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: I'm keeping things very very hush hush.

864
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 3: Fans of The Bachelor know exactly what we're talking about.

865
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 3: Joe and Serena sit down for an intimate conversation with

866
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,959
Speaker 3: Maria Georgis on Bachelor Happy Hour.

867
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 2: I have to ask, I heard a rumor that you

868
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,240
Speaker 2: were dating at one point one of Drake's best friends.

869
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: Oh, we have more Sayami.

870
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 3: Listen to Bachelor Happy Hour on America's number one podcast network, iHeart,

871
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 3: open your free iHeart app and search Bachelor Happy Hour.

872
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 3: Listen now everywhere, listen to podcasts, and don't miss part

873
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 3: two Monday Night.

874
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: So what do you have to say to people who

875
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: are witnessing generational trauma in their own life? They know

876
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 1: they're in a relationship with someone, they've just experienced death.

877
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 1: They don't know what to do with it, you know

878
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. What do you what do you

879
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: blanket statements say about that?

880
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 2: So? I guess you know. The most important thing is

881
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 2: is too is to treat yourself with grace. Right, we

882
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 2: have to treat ourselves with grace. I don't think we

883
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 2: do that enough, especially when you're bad about yourself, right

884
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 2: we we we are really good at being angry at us.

885
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 2: Our internal voices are are are scary, right, and mean

886
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 2: and difficult, and they're just they're playing assholes, right, I mean,

887
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: they just though So I think that when we realize

888
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 2: that those thoughts that we're having are simply thoughts, right,

889
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 2: they're just thoughts. They're not truths, their thoughts, and that

890
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 2: they those thoughts can be easily swayed and changed based

891
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 2: upon our past experiences. Then we could take some of

892
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,720
Speaker 2: that sting out of them and allow ourselves to be treated,

893
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 2: to treat ourselves with grace, to know that, and to

894
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 2: redefine who we are, what we're about. And maybe not

895
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 2: everything that happened had to do with us per se. Right,

896
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,240
Speaker 2: We're just wrong place, wrong time. Right. Who's to say

897
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 2: you know that the reason why I was treated a

898
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 2: certain way is because.

899
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 1: I deserve has anything to do with me any Yeah,

900
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: you know.

901
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 2: People we take the way we're treated as kids extremely personally,

902
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 2: which sounds ridiculous. Right of course we do, but many

903
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 2: times it's not personal, has more to do with the

904
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 2: other person will have to do with us, right, right.

905
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: And it's funny when I you said, they want to

906
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 1: get it off them. They're miserable, they're unhappy, it's toxin.

907
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: They want to throw it up, they want to get

908
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: it out.

909
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: I want to get it out like a drowning victim.

910
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter who's rescuing, and they just want to

911
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 2: get up. So I got to push down whoever is

912
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 2: in front of them to get up.

913
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: Yes, what about yeah, exactly? What about people who can't

914
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: afford therapy for me. I think there are a lot

915
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: of online therapy options. But also I think with the internet,

916
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 1: like I've I there was something that I looked up. Oh,

917
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: I didn't really know about formative years. I've heard it.

918
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: I studied psychology and college. I forgot, but I didn't

919
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 1: really realize if by ate like you're formed as a

920
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 1: human in many ways, Like that's insane. That makes a

921
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: lot of sense now I thought of that that last

922
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: week of all the shit that was happening to me

923
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,439
Speaker 1: between childhood, how many homes i'd been in and eight

924
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: years old, Now I realize a lot Like so I

925
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: think that people just using the internet with these terms,

926
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 1: these generational trauma terms or anxiety disorder or alcoholism or

927
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: I feel like people can find a decent amount on

928
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: the internet to help themselves.

929
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 2: They can, But you know, it scares me. It worries me,

930
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 2: right because there's so much misinformation on the internet as

931
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 2: well fair so much it's misuffair.

932
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: But then support groups something that's economical.

933
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,320
Speaker 2: There's definitely a lot. There's definitely a lot of support groups.

934
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 2: There's definitely a lot of more economical ways. I think

935
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 2: mental health we're in We're in a mental health renaissance

936
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 2: right now, I think right where it's more accepted, people

937
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 2: are talking about it more. It's more in our common ridacular. Right.

938
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,879
Speaker 2: I have so many of my teenage patients telling their friends, yeah,

939
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 2: I can't get together because I have there after that day, right,

940
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 2: I mean right, fifteen twenty years ago that was not

941
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 2: the case, right. Never. I think that you do have

942
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 2: to be careful where you get information from, where you

943
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 2: get advice from. There's a lot of bad characters, right,

944
00:46:55,440 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 2: bad actors in any field, including mine. Unfortunately, it worries me.

945
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 2: I think, you know, health insurance is a totally different topic.

946
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 2: We can talk a whole thing about where you know,

947
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 2: the health insurance companies aren't really here to help us, right,

948
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:13,280
Speaker 2: They're not the profits. So it's hard. It's it's definitely

949
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,720
Speaker 2: hard to find. And I think there's a scarcity around.

950
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 2: And I'll be honest with you in that in that vacuum,

951
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 2: there have been other other agencies and different people who

952
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 2: have offered help that may not be as qualified. I

953
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 2: think the most important thing that I'm gonna should suggest

954
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 2: to people is to not give up finding that right person.

955
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 2: It's not necessarily the you know. I know, I know

956
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 2: some social workers who were great. I know some psychologists

957
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 2: who are great. I know some social workers were awful

958
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 2: and psychologist.

959
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: No, it's a it's a chemistry thing. It's like the

960
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: same thing. You could go into vinyasa yoga. You could

961
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: go into hot yoga. You think you hate yoga because

962
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: you didn't go into the right class. You could think

963
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 1: about like lettuce because you had a rogola, not on dive.

964
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: Whatever it is.

965
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 2: I agree. I agree with that, keep going and tell

966
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 2: your story over and over and over again until you

967
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 2: find that one person that you feel comfortable with. And

968
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 2: sometimes and.

969
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: Different people are good for different things, like this guy

970
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: that I know for years, a life coach. It's more

971
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: like not worrying about happened to you when you were

972
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 1: a child, but like intervening in your behavior now. Some

973
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: people want to get all the way back, and it's

974
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: like a toolkit. You can use different people for different things.

975
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, wow, all right, well this was amazing

976
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 1: and very grateful and I think will help a lot

977
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: of people. And I want to keep this conversation going

978
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: here about these different things because I haven't been I

979
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: didn't realize I hadn't been willing to talk about any

980
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: of this myself in my own life, and it's easier

981
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: to for it to be tangible because people know me

982
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:42,879
Speaker 1: and they know that they really don't know so much

983
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,399
Speaker 1: about me. So so many people have so many things

984
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: that most people don't really know what's going on with them.

985
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 2: And you know, I think what's it's a beautiful thing

986
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 2: is that you're also learning, you know, learning who you

987
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 2: are along with it.

988
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, of course, which is which is.

989
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 2: Great, you know, And I think that are our own

990
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 2: personal evolution should never end, never end, right, We continue

991
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 2: to grow and learn about ourselves and how we got

992
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:07,919
Speaker 2: here and where we want to continue to go. And

993
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 2: I think that's super important. So I'm thankful for and

994
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 2: grateful that you gave me this opportunity to thank you.

995
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 2: Thank you, and uh no, like, keep the conversation going.

996
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,439
Speaker 1: It's great, all right, good, we'll talk soon. Thanks.

997
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 2: Take care