1 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: It's the big take from Bloomberg News and I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: I'm West Gasova. Today, has Ronda Santis found the elusive 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: secret to stealing Donald Trump's voters? So you know, Ron's 4 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: been in front of mine for a long time now. 5 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: This is one of the most popular governments. He's a 6 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: tough guy, he's a brilliant guy. And we got involved 7 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: with Ron. A lot of people were saying, do you 8 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:37,599 Speaker 1: think he can make it? I said, he's gonna make 9 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: it because he's a jamp, he's a winner. And I 10 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: gotta thank the President for his support of Florida. I mean, 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: I'm kind of excited that he's here about tell you, 12 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: I'm really excited to have Milania as a Florida resident. 13 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: Let me just say, Mr President, given your change of registration, 14 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: welcome home to Florida a simpler times back when everything 15 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: was buddy buddy down in Florida. Donald Trump, as you 16 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: heard there, was all too happy then to take credit 17 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: for the rapid rise of rhn De Santis, Florida's governor. 18 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 1: I endorsed Ron, and after I endorsed me, took off 19 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: like a rocket ship. And to Santis, well, he was 20 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: all too happy to let him for the time being. Anyway, 21 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: these days, the relationship between the former president and the 22 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: Republican Party's new star is a little frost here. It's 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: no secret to Santis is weighing whether to challenge Trump 24 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: for the Republican presidential nomination, and it's really no secret 25 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: that Trump is not happy about it. In the past, 26 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: that might have meant that Santis would come under attack 27 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: not just from Trump, which is happening, but also Trump's 28 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: legions of supporters, which is not happening. In fact, some 29 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: early pole show Republicans preferring to Santis over Trump. What 30 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: is going on. One person who knows is Umberg's national 31 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: political correspondent, Joshua Green. He's just written a big story 32 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: about De Santis for Business Week, and he's here with 33 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: me now in our Washington studio. Josh thanks for being here, 34 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: my pleasure, Joshuay is Ron De Santis suddenly the big 35 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: Republican of the moment. So Republicans went into the mentoral 36 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: elections expecting a big red wave. It didn't materialize. By 37 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: and large, their candidates lost in the battleground states. They 38 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: didn't manage to win back control of the Senate. But 39 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: the one big exception to that trend was Ron De Santis, 40 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: who won a landslide re election race for Florida governor 41 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: into the process one not just Republican voters, but a 42 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: lot of Democrats and independence too, many of whom think 43 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: that he might even be the Trump slayer that if 44 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: he runs for the Republican presidential nomination is most people 45 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: expect that he might finally be the person who can 46 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: depose Trump and loosened Trump's warlord grip on the Republican Party. 47 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: These had for the last seven years. And of the 48 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: reasons I suppose that Republicans would actually want to have 49 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: a Trump's layer is because when reason the Republicans lost 50 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 1: so badly in the midterm elections is because Trump put 51 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: forward so many candidates who were not palatable beyond the 52 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: very narrow base of die hard Trump supporters. That's exactly right. 53 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at the menagerie of folks 54 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: that Trump put forward, from mem at Oz to herschell Walker, 55 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: yeah in Georgia, you know, to all sorts of kind 56 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: of lesser House candidates who disappointed and lost. It cost 57 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: Republicans control of the Senate, and it cost them a 58 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: bigger majority in the House of Representatives, and we can 59 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: already see the problems that's causing the party in terms 60 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: of the fights over who's going to be the next 61 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: Speaker of the House. But backing up a step, what 62 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: it really showed to people, even Republicans who are fairly 63 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: Trump positive. This marked the third election in a row 64 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: that Republicans have underperformed with Trump at the top of 65 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: the ticket. Mid term elections big blue way for Democrats, 66 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: and of course Joe Biden won. Uh here we are 67 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: in two with inflation rampant and right track run track 68 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: numbers very negative for Democrats. I mean, all the fundamentals 69 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: showed that we were headed for a Republican wave and 70 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: instead this Trumpet ticket and these candidates underperformed. I think 71 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: it was a wake up call for a lot of 72 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: people who are perfectly willing to go along with Donald 73 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: Trump as long as the party was winning, but now 74 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: recognize that with Trump at the top of the ticket, 75 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: they're losing, and so they're searching for a new standard bearer. 76 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: And Rhonda Santis might be that guy. And something you 77 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: said earlier is pretty significant, I think. And that's even 78 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: though the Sanders is a very conservative Republican and made 79 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: his bones as a die hard Trump supporter before separating himself. 80 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: He still managed to win Democrats and independence in large numbers. 81 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: What did he do to attract people who you would think, 82 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: in this really polarized environment would run away from a 83 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: guy like that. I think the real thing he did 84 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 1: was he was very COVID skeptical, and Florida became famous, 85 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: you know, if not infamous during the pandemic. De Santis 86 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: was the guy who was most aggressive about opening businesses, 87 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: fighting back mask mandates, keeping kids in real school, and 88 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: in the travels I had through Florida campaigning with him. 89 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 1: In the week leading up to the mid terms, a 90 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: lot of people who are not hard core Republicans said, hey, 91 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: you know, looking back two years from now, De Sante 92 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: has got a lot right on COVID. We sort of 93 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: appreciate that he was a good governor. My kid got 94 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: to stay in school, My husband didn't lose his job 95 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: because his business stayed open. So from a governing standpoint, 96 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people in Florida seemed to have been 97 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: happy with how he performed, and I think that's reflected 98 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: on the landslide reelection. He wonted November. The question now, though, 99 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: is can you appeal to a slightly different class of voters, 100 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: Republican primary voters, and make himself appealing enough to those 101 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: voters that they will loosen their ties to Donald Trump 102 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: and transfer them to somebody else. And of course, this 103 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,799 Speaker 1: is the big danger that any Republican hoping to succeed 104 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: Donald trumpas do. He's got to attract those Trump voters 105 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: while not alienating them by turning off Trump himself, and 106 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: Descenders appears to have done that. In your story, you 107 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: write that Descenders figured out away two be the next 108 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: candidates to succeed Trump without getting kind of machine gunned 109 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: down by him. Yeah. I mean to say, this is 110 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 1: interesting because he kind of cracked the code for solving 111 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 1: a problem that a lot of Republican presidential hopefuls have 112 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: been trying to solve and have been unable to and 113 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: that is, how do you run for president in a 114 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: Republican party that is still fundamentally controlled by Donald Trump? 115 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: So what did he do? Well? What most people did? 116 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: And I'm thinking about people like Mike Pence, for instance, 117 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: the former Vice president and former Secretary of State, Mike 118 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: Pompeo had along with a lot of Trumpey senators like 119 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: Tom Cotton from Arkansas Ted Cruz from Texas. What most 120 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:00,799 Speaker 1: of those people have done over the past five years 121 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: is glorify him, fluff his ego, attacked his opponents in 122 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: hopes that he would look kindly on them and wouldn't 123 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: tear them to shreds when they decided to run for president. 124 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: They created a problem for them, though, and it's that 125 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: they came off looking like secondary figures, beta males to 126 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: Trump's alpha males. One Republican put it to me to say, 127 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: this is interesting because he went in a different direction 128 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: when he was running for governor in He went on 129 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: Fox News a bunch because he was ranked third in 130 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: the time in the Florida Republican gubratorial primary. Understood that 131 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: he needed Trump's endorsement, and further understood that the best 132 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: way to get that endorsement was to go on TV 133 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: and sort of flagrantly praise and defend Donald Trump, who 134 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: at that time was fighting off Robert Mueller's Russia investigation. 135 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: He didn't even identify a crime. He said, Oh, come, 136 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: he's doing a counter intelligence investigation. Just go try to 137 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: find something we needed. Insurance policy to prevent Trump from 138 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: getting elected. There's one thing to have a bias, there's 139 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: one thing to have an appearance of impropriety. This is 140 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: actually taking a bias and basically saying you're going to 141 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: use the machinery of government to prevent the American people 142 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: from making a choice. That's very disturbing. So to Santa 143 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: spent a ton of time on Fox News, just like 144 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: the other guys, praising him. It worked. Trump noticed, endorsed him. 145 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: It vaulted him to the Florida nomination and eventually to 146 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: the governor's office. But De Santus did something interesting at 147 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: that point. He stopped praising Trump. He stopped genuflecting and 148 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: sort of presenting him. Once he became governor, It's kind 149 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: of a beta to Trump's alpha, and it allowed to 150 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: Santa's to do something that none of the other guys 151 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: had been able to do, and that is to emerge 152 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: as his own figure. Josh, So, now Ronda Santa Is 153 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: is governor of Florida. He's stepped into his own and 154 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,839 Speaker 1: you writing your story that as he began to eye 155 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: the White House, he realized he had one more big 156 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: thing he had to do. So what to Santa's did that. 157 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: I think it's pretty ingenious. Is he understood he had 158 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: to kind of go out and create his own issue 159 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: portfolio that would get people excited. Right, every Republican in 160 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: the age of Trump understood that the way to get 161 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: attention is to have these big, loud, messy cultural fights, 162 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: most of which revolved around Trump. What De Santis did 163 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,079 Speaker 1: was he realized that he needed to have big, large, 164 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: messy cultural fights that didn't revolve around Trump, so that 165 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: De Santis himself could kind of be the alpha male 166 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: in these fights. So one of the things Trump did 167 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: when he became president was he fundamentally reoriented what it 168 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: meant to be a Republican and good standing. In the past, 169 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: it had meant that you subscribe to a certain set 170 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: of policy commitments. You know, optimistic, pro business, small government. 171 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: You know, think Ronald Reagan, Shining City on a Hill, 172 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: small government. The government was the problem. Exactly what Trump 173 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 1: did was he sort of turned it into an issue 174 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: of grievance. So from the moment he came down the 175 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: Trump Tower escalator to announce his campaign, he was attacking immigrants. 176 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: The Chinese are our enemies, the liberals are our enemies. 177 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: Creating all sorts of enemies and grievances that really had 178 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: a powerful effect, as we saw on Republican voters and 179 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: changed what the party diod for. It was that other 180 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: people were responsible for the ills in your life exactly, 181 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: and that he was the guy who's going to right 182 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: those wrongs. Of course, with Trump, there was a big 183 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: personal element to all this that he too was being 184 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: victimized by, you know, whether it was Robert Muller or 185 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: mean Democrats, um. And so he had a lot of 186 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: grievances to air too, and that sort of became what 187 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: Republican politics was about in the air of Trump. I 188 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: think one thing that DeSantis recognized early on was that 189 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: if he wanted to emerge as his own figure, he 190 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: had to come up with a brand of politics sort 191 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: of rhymed with Trump is um, but wasn't about Trump specifically. 192 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: So one of the things he did from the very 193 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: get go of his term as Florida governor was to 194 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: start these big fights, whether it was over immigration or 195 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: wokeness is a big theme of his but it was 196 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: about something that DeSantis was orchestrating, and that focused on 197 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: DeSantis in the state of Florida. It didn't focus on 198 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Josh, please stick around. We'll continue talking after 199 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: the break, Josh, he said to Santis began building his 200 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:11,599 Speaker 1: own portfolio of enemies to attack who people would associate 201 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: with him instead of Trump. What are some examples of that. 202 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: I mean, if you look a few months ago, De 203 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 1: Santis did this immigration stunt where somebody from his administration 204 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: lured a bunch of venezuel And immigrants onto a flight 205 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: to Martha's Vinue with promises that they would get jobs 206 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: and aid, flew them there, dropped them off. There were 207 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: no jobs in aid, and it became this big kerfuffle 208 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: in conservative media. Um, we had Media Matters for America, 209 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: the Watchdog group do a study for us for this piece, 210 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: and they found out that Fox had devoted a hundred 211 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: and forty eight segments to the santiss immigration stunt. Got 212 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 1: people really riled up. Put De Santis at the forefront 213 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: of this controversy on immigration, which we know that Republican 214 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: voters care about and are prime to react to. And 215 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: it made the Santis the centerpiece of the story. And 216 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 1: if you look at what he's done in his recent 217 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: political career, he's run that playbook again. And again and again. 218 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: And one of the things I write about in my 219 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: new business cover story is that one of the bad 220 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: guys the Santisist has chosen is actually corporate America, which 221 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 1: has historically been the Republican Party's great ally. What do 222 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: Santus is trying to do is kind of forge a politics. 223 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: It's a lot like Trumpism. It revolves around grievance, but 224 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: it isn't backward looking. He's not trying to, you know, 225 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: restore the Reagan era of sunny optimism. He's drumming up 226 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: a new set of grievances for people to get upset about. 227 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of evidence that that what he's 228 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: doing is working, that Republican voters are listening to this 229 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: and responding to this, whether it's fighting against what he 230 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: calls wokeness and corporate America, the idea that CEOs and 231 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: business people have been kind of captured by social justice 232 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: and environmental warriors and are undermining sort of the basis 233 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: of US capitalism. We can't just stand idly by while 234 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: woke ideology ravages every institution in our society. We must 235 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: fight the woke in our schools, We must fight the 236 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: woke in our businesses. We must fight the woke in 237 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: government agencies. We can never ever surrender to woke ideology. 238 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: The state of Florida is where woke goes to die. 239 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: A great example of this is to Santus's fight with 240 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: the state's marquee employer, Disney. Last year, Florida past what 241 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: critics dubbed it Don't Say Gay law, which limited what 242 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: teachers could teach children about gender and sexual identity in 243 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: the classroom, and one of the people who came out 244 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: and criticized the law was Disney CEO Bob Chappeck. De 245 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: Santis did something that in any previous political era would 246 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,719 Speaker 1: have been unthinkable, and he went to war with one 247 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: of the state's largest employers in Disney, threatened them, called 248 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: a special session of the legislature to punish them by 249 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: stripping them of a special tax break, and used Disney 250 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: to start a big national fight over the issue of 251 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: what he calls corporate wokeness, the idea that CEOs and 252 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: business leaders have been captured by perfidious liberal social justice 253 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: and environmental warriors in a way that is sort of 254 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: threatening to the fabric of American society. And this turned 255 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: out to be a very resonant fight. Again, it put 256 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: around to Santis on Fox News every night. It introduced 257 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: to a lot of Republican voters a whole new set 258 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: of grievances that they hadn't really known about before. That 259 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: kind of got them excited. And once again it put 260 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: to Santis in the role of being the prime driver 261 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: of a crisis that had nothing to do with Donald Trump. 262 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: It let him emerge as the big figure. And his 263 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: ability to run that play again and again and again, 264 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: I think explains how it is that he's managed to 265 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: emerge from Trump's Republican Party as probably the most exciting 266 00:14:51,480 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: Republican presidential prospect heading into the primaries. We'll be right back, Josh. 267 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: You write that one of the other differences between Trump 268 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: and DeSantis is that the Sensis is very effective as 269 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,359 Speaker 1: a governor. As an executive. De Santis as governor, understands 270 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: how to use the power of government in pursuit of 271 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: his political goals. So Trump would throw an awful lot 272 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: of tantrums and fire people and hire people, but at 273 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: the end of the day, he didn't really use the 274 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: power of government to accomplish a lot, or he seemed 275 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: like he was unable to do it. De Santis is 276 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: Harvard trained lawyer and a very capable chief executive who 277 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: has used the powers of the government to punish companies 278 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: like Disney that he's gone to war with. It's sort 279 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: of remarkable from the standpoint of you don't usually see 280 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: a government attacking businesses in their own party. But it's 281 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: also remarkable because it's sort of the opposite of what 282 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: Republicans traditionally say they want and don't want from government, 283 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: and that is to kind of be left alone and 284 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: for business to operate independently. One of the kind of 285 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: wild things that it's governed doing research for this East was, 286 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: you know. De Santis was elected to Congress as a 287 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: libertarian minded congressman from a district outside Jacksonville, and as 288 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: part of his campaign, he wrote a book sort of 289 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: attacking Obama and venerating the First Principles of America. And 290 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: in that book he wrote the bullying of private industry 291 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: was part and parcel of the modus operandi of the 292 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: Obama administration. What's so amazing and ironic about De Santi's 293 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: Times government is that he used the powers of the 294 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: De Santis administration to bully companies like Disney very successfully 295 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: in a way that has built up his political image 296 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: and made him into a real viable, if not the 297 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: leading Republican contender for the nomination. Josh, you describe all 298 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: the attention and success that De Santis is having, especially 299 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: among Republicans, that of course has already attracted the ire 300 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: of Donald Trump. What does that mean for De Santis 301 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: now that Trump wants a big supporter is on his 302 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: bad side. Trump has been very frustrated with Rohn to 303 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: Sandis for a while because, as we said earlier to Santus, 304 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: once he became governor, stopped Jenny flecting to Trump, and 305 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: Trump felt as though he were being slighted. That frustration 306 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: finally bubbled to the surface. Just before the elections. Trump 307 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: was in a rally in Pennsylvania and referred to him 308 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: as Ron the Sanctimonious, which is Trump's new nickname for him. 309 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: Not quite as good as Crooked Hillary or Lion Ted. 310 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: But you got the sense that Trump was sort of 311 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 1: very frustrated, but to Sant's just ignored it. And I 312 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: think the fact that Republicans with a lot of Trump 313 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: candidates to the top of the ticket performed as badly 314 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: as they did in the mid terms. Has kept other 315 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: Republicans from going after to Sandis like Trump's attacks really 316 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: haven't had that much of effect. Most Republican lawmakers and 317 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: voters seemed to have ignored them, and it's allowed to 318 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: Santus to continue to emerge as this exciting potential Trump 319 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: replacement if he gets into the presidential race. And I 320 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: guess that comes down to one of the other signatures 321 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: of Trump, which is fear. He makes p Fear him 322 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: is one of the reasons why people are afraid to 323 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: run against him, because if they don't fear him personally, 324 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: they fear his very loyal voters. And in your story 325 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,959 Speaker 1: you write that De Santis has actually been very effective 326 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: at creating an aura of fear around himself. Yeah. I mean, 327 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: one thing that the Santis managed should do in Florida 328 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: through his attacks on Disney and other enemies, is to 329 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: really instill a degree of fear among businesses, among other Republicans. 330 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: It's almost Trumpian in its nature. I mean, being down there, 331 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: people are really afraid of him. They don't want to 332 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: get in his crosshairs, and that's an important quality I 333 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: think for Republican leader to have. I mean, one thing 334 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: that Republicans love about Donald Trump is the fact that 335 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: he's sort of a strong man who can smite their enemies. 336 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: I think any key to Santa's replacing him is going 337 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: to rely on to Santa's being able to kind of 338 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: expand what he's done in Florida to the nation at large. 339 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: He needs to show that he's sort of a big, 340 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: strong guy who can stand on his own. But that's 341 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: going to mean standing up to Donald Trump at some point. 342 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: It's important to strike a note of caution here because 343 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: there's a long history of governors who seemed like they 344 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: were all powerful and the next big thing about to 345 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: take off like a rocket ship, and they ended up 346 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: blowing up at a launchpad. The guy who comes to 347 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: mind last cycle former Wisconsin governor Scott Walker, who seemed 348 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: like this big deal, raised a ton of money, and 349 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: then his campaign kind of withered and died within a 350 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 1: matter of a few months. So it's always a little 351 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: risky kind of projecting forward. But De Santis has a 352 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: number of advantages for Republicans, and there are a number 353 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: of reasons why I think he should be taken seriously. 354 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: One is he's managed to raise a ton of money. 355 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: He raised two hundred million dollars for his re election race, 356 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: and he also won over a lot of voters independence, 357 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: even some Democrats that Republicans have struggled to win under Trump. 358 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: So he offers a kind of alternate path forward from 359 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: the one that the party would be following if they 360 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: simply nominated Trump to be president again. And that has 361 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: a lot of appeal for people. But the real question 362 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: about De Santus is can he get up on a 363 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: debate stage at electorn opposite Donald Trump and go toe 364 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: to toe with him. So far, nobody who's attempted that 365 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: has survived, and De Santis has been notably quiet on 366 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 1: the issue of Trump himself. But if he wants to 367 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: have that nomination, Trump is already a candidate for he's 368 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: going to have to have a showdown with him at 369 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: some point, and I think we'll see at that point 370 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: whether he kind of has the moxie, in the charisma, 371 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: in the stamina to go head to head with somebody 372 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: like Trump who is so skilled performing on television but 373 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: also at politically his competitors as we saw in the 374 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: Republican primaries. Josh Green, thanks for coming on the show. 375 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: Paul's Pleasure. You can read Joshua Green's business week story 376 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 1: on Ron de Santis at Bloomberg dot com. Thanks for 377 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: listening to us here at The Big Take, the daily 378 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 1: podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For more shows 379 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 380 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen. Read Day's story and subscribe to 381 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 1: our daily newsletter at Bloomberg dot com slash Big Take, 382 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: and we'd love to hear from you. Email us with 383 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: questions or comments to Big Take at Bloomberg dot net. 384 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: The supervising producer of the Big Take is Vicky Bergelina. 385 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Katherine Fink. Our producers are Mo 386 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: Barrow and Michael falerro Is our engineer. Original music by 387 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: Leo Sidrin. I'm West Casova. We'll be back tomorrow with 388 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: another Big Take.