1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from House top 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline and Caroline. A couple of years 4 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: ago on the podcast, we did an episode on the 5 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: Morning After pill and what it is uh, and we're 6 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: going to revisit the Morning After pill and specifically the 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: branded Plan B emergency contraception because it has made some 8 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,639 Speaker 1: headlines of late, and we want to talk about the 9 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: legal debate surrounding access to Plan BE, specifically access for 10 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: younger girls UM. And also what emergency contraception is. Yeah, 11 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: because previously UM morning after pills the more appropriate name 12 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: being emergency contraception because you don't have to necessarily take 13 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: them the morning after. The whole rigamarole was that they 14 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: were only available to girls seventeen and up with an 15 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: I D and a prescription. So the evolution becomes that 16 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: the FDA basically says it's okay for everybody. They study 17 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: the safety and efficacy, they say it's okay. The administration 18 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: kind of freaks out. The Obama administration kind of freaks out, 19 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: that's it's not okay for everybody. It's oh my god, 20 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: we have so many things to worry about. We can't 21 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: just be handing out drugs like candy. The f d 22 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: A in response kind of tucks their tail, and then 23 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: we get a whole bunch of lawsuits. That's that's kind 24 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: of glossing over how everything's evolved. Now. What we're dealing 25 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: with is this push to get rid of age restrictions 26 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: versus the push to maintain the older age limit with 27 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: I D. And what's interesting about this fight that we'll 28 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: get into is that both sides, for instance, groups like 29 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: the Family Research Council and groups like Planned Parenthood are 30 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: both saying that this is an argument of politics versus science, 31 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: and they're both both sides are accusing each other of 32 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: putting policy X before what is best for our children. Yeah, 33 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: and that's the Family Research Council obviously representing more of 34 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: the conservative side of things, whereas Planned Parenthood is arguing 35 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: more on the the liberal side of stuff. Not just 36 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: to boil it down to black and white, but the 37 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 1: drug in question that we're talking about is called leave 38 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: on a gestural and we hear about it under the 39 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: brand name Plan B. And just for a little bit 40 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: of historical context, emergency contraception is nothing new to medicine. 41 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: It's not like doctors recently figured out, oh, you know what, 42 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: we can actually give women a drug that could halt 43 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: the egg from being fertilized after they have unprotected sex 44 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: or in the case of sexual assault. And this brief 45 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: timeline is coming from the paper Emergency Contraception Underutilized Resource 46 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: out of the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and 47 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: Public Health, and it talks about how hormonal emergency contraception 48 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: was first studied in the nineteen twenties when researchers figured 49 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: out that estrogenic ovarian extracts interfered with pregnancy in animals, 50 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: and so it started out as a high dose estrogen 51 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: only formula, and vets were the first ones to use 52 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: it on dogs and horses who had made it when 53 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: the owner didn't intend to not with each other. Right. 54 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: I had to read that twice. I'm not, I'm not, okay, 55 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: it's like dogs and horror. Okay, So dogs and dogs 56 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: and horses were the first the first animals to receive 57 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: this kind of emergency contraception. And let's not forget though, 58 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: about how women took emergency contraception into their own hands 59 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: even before the f d A had a drug approved 60 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: with douching, as we talked about in one of our 61 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: favorite stuff I've Never Told You episodes, Down with the Douche. 62 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: Apparently not only that we talked about in the podcast 63 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: about how women would douche with lysol and a lysol competitor, Zonight, 64 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: and apparently also with Coca cola. It is abrasive. Yes, 65 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: we are in no way endorsing any of that. Don't 66 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: do that. We're just saying that it happened. Yeah, keep 67 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: coke on ice, not in your vagina. Yeah, and that's 68 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: a quote we can read it. Yeah, Okay. So moving 69 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: on through the sixties and seventies, there was a lot 70 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: of research done on different combinations of drugs to prevent 71 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: UH pregnancy, and in the mid sixties we have the 72 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 1: first documented human clinical cases of post quoital estrogens, and 73 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: this is when doctors in the Netherlands use that veterinarian 74 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: proved method on a thirteen year old girl who had 75 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: been raped in order to prevent pregnancy. But by the 76 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: late nineteen sixties in the US, high dose estrogen regiments 77 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: became the standard, and then going to the seventies, we 78 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: have the development of regiments that are a combination of 79 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: estrogen and progestine. In nineteen seventy four, some of our 80 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: older listeners might be familiar with the youth Pay method. 81 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: This was named for Canadian Dr Albert use Pay, which 82 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: was an estrogen progestine combination and it replaced for a 83 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: while the high dose estrogen treatments because it had fewer 84 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: side effects. And now Plan B is a progestin only 85 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: formula and it has greater efficacy in terms of blocking 86 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: that pregnancy as well as fewer side effects. And in 87 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 1: the US Food and Drug Administration approved Plan B with 88 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: a prescription and since two thousand nine, the FDA has 89 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: approved it for over the counter sales for women seventeen 90 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: years old and over. And in two thousand eleven, this 91 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: is when the legalities start to get really dicey. In 92 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: two thou eleven, and Health and Human Services Director Kathleen 93 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: Sibelius blocks Plan B slash one step from being available 94 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: to all women of all ages over the counter. And 95 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: this happened in response to an application from drug maker Tiva, 96 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: who makes Plan b UM. When the FDA went back 97 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: and looked at it and recommended that it be made 98 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: available to all women saying that it's very safe, and 99 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: so Sibelia says, you know what, I'm going to overrule that, 100 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: and in response, reproductive rights groups such as Planned Parenthood 101 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: sued the Health and Human Services Department for that. And 102 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: so in the middle of all of this, we have 103 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: Judge Edward Corman of the District Court of Eastern New York, 104 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: who was the one who in April five, two thousand 105 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: thirteen this year overturned the US Health and Services ruling 106 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: to put an age limit on obtaining Plan B. So 107 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: it's just been it's it's almost like watching a ping 108 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: pong match between the courts and the f d A. 109 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: And then also you have Health and Human Services stepping 110 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: in and so people are kind of on the one 111 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: hand flipping out, saying, you know what, we need to 112 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: put some kind of age restriction on it. But the 113 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: interesting thing is Judge Edward Corman, who has been presiding 114 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: over this whole Plan B legality since two thousand five 115 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: in terms of overseeing whether or not it should be 116 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: made available to everyone, he is basically at the end 117 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: of his rope with all of this. Uh. There is 118 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: an NPR story about this, and it cites from the 119 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: legal brief that he wrote. The effort to convert these 120 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: leave on adjustural based contraceptives from prescription to over the 121 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: counter status has gone on for over twelve years, even 122 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: though they would be among the safest drugs available to 123 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: children and adults on any drug store shelf. And and 124 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: then he signed it with a giant snap. No really, 125 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: I mean I read the entire brief, his some brief, 126 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: and it was not only fascinating and enlightening, uh kind 127 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: of get a better understanding of what's going on politically 128 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: and in the courts about this whole issue right now, 129 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: But it was just the most entertaining thing I may 130 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: have ever read outside of a David Sadari's book, because 131 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: I mean, this is like the most intelligent snark in 132 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: the world. Judge Corman basically calls Sibelius's decision to overrule 133 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: the strike of the age limit as politically motivated, scientifically unjustified, 134 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: and contrary to agency precedent. He goes on to say that, look, 135 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: it's really only the f d A that has the 136 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: necessary information and expertise to make these decisions about the 137 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: safety and efficacy of drugs. A principle, he says that 138 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: Sibelius flagrantly violated, and so in response to the defendants, 139 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: who are you know, Sibelius and the Commissioner of Food 140 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: and Drugs seeking a stay of the a the strike 141 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: of the age rules to pursue an appeal, he says 142 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: it's something out of an alternate reality and says that 143 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: one of their arguments that if you let it go 144 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: over the counter now and then reverse it later without 145 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: a stay, it's largely an insult to the intelligence of women, 146 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: because he's like, dudes, you're the ones who have made 147 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: this process for obtaining Plan B so freaking confusing. And 148 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 1: some abroad the fact that it's telling that Corman is 149 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: having such an intense response against the Obama administration's wish 150 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: for that fifteen year old age limit on it because 151 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: Corman was appointed by President Reagan, so he was part of, 152 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: you know, a more politically conservative administration's appointments, and so 153 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: they're saying, well, you know, if he if he's freaking 154 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: out over this, maybe also for me, thinking about being 155 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: on the same case since two thousand five, maybe he 156 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: just needs a vacation. Good, Perhaps he's just tired, but hey, 157 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: frustration leads to some of the beautiful things that he wrote, 158 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: I'm okay with it. I highly recommend you search out 159 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 1: this brief and read it now. Of course, in April, 160 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: when Judge Corman said, you know what, enough of all this, 161 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: you need to make Plan B available over the counter 162 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: to all women of all ages. Also side note men, 163 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: you can buy Plan B as well. Um. But of 164 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: course when he said you know, the age limit should 165 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: be removed, Q freak out because not only do you 166 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: have well you have that in then the Obama administration 167 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: coming back and saying nope, we're gonna have a fifteen 168 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: year old cap for that, and you're gonna need an 169 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:47,359 Speaker 1: I D. So Planned Parenthood said in response basically like thanks, 170 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,719 Speaker 1: but you know what, you need to lift all restrictions 171 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: to this. And then on the more conservative side you 172 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: have Concerned Women for America saying, well, if Plan B 173 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: is so safe, then why do we need prescriptions for 174 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: birth control? Huh? Yeah, they they get a little snarky. Also, 175 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: this is like a big theme among this this debate 176 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: is some snark. The Concerned Women for America wrote that 177 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: the same quote women's rights advocates who want every decision 178 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: to be between quote a woman and her doctor are 179 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: now eliminating the doctor and putting politics ahead of our kids. 180 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: To see, there's that debate of like everybody's accusing everybody 181 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: else of being too political in this discussion, right, and 182 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: then the more liberal National Women's Law Center said, hey, 183 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: you know, with this whole I D issue, women who 184 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: don't have I d s are going to be denied access. 185 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: That could create problems. How many fifteen year olds do 186 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,559 Speaker 1: we know who already have I D s. And even 187 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: if you you know, if if one of us, for 188 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: instance Carolina, older women who are plenty above the age 189 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,679 Speaker 1: limit to get planned B if we go to the 190 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: drug store and all of a sudden, oh you know what, 191 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: actually we've forgot our I D, then we can't get it. 192 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 1: The whole timing issue with the access to emergency contraception 193 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: is important, even if it means oh, well you gotta 194 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: leave and then you might have to come back the 195 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: next day. Well, in the time that has passed, that 196 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: low worse the efficacy rates of emergency contraception. So this 197 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: timing issue is very important. Um and then we have 198 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: people from the Family Research Council saying, well, you know what, 199 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: what about what this hormone is gonna do to the 200 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,719 Speaker 1: pre pubescent female body, because really a lot of this 201 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:30,479 Speaker 1: ties into fear of whether or not access to emergency 202 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: contraception over the counter without an idea two girls of 203 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: all ages is somehow going to set off as domino 204 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: effect in younger girls brains that oh, you know what, 205 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: I can start having sex whenever, because if something happens, 206 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: then I can just go to Walgreens the next day 207 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 1: and take care of it. So the Family Research Council 208 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: points out that plan be distances the girls who are 209 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 1: at high risk of sexual abuse and at t I 210 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: S from the medical supervision they need. And I think 211 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: that's an important question of access because are these girls 212 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: who the Family Research Council is so concerned about, are 213 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: they even getting medical intervention? Do they even have access 214 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: to it? Are they able to go to the doctor 215 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: and ask questions and get a prescription for this stuff? Um? 216 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: I mean what group of people are we talking about? 217 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:30,359 Speaker 1: Not everybody, not every Uh young girls parents are involved 218 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: in her life and can drive her to a pharmacy. 219 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: You know. Well, And when I was I was listening 220 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: to dance, I was talking about this not too long ago, 221 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: and he brought up a pretty distressing but relevant point 222 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: of Let's say, okay, a girl is raped by her 223 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: father and then she has to turn around and ask 224 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: him to drive her to the drug store to go 225 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: get planned beat, you know what I mean, Like it's 226 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: it's pretty telling to that. In November of two thousand twelve, 227 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 1: the American Academy of Pediatrics recommended that advanced emergency contraception 228 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: prescriptions be allowed because kids are more likely to use 229 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: it when that's the case, like it basically, if if 230 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: it's already there, if they have it, then if something happens, 231 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: then they're more likely to use it, which is one 232 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: reason why New York Times parenting blogger kJ del Antonia 233 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: suggested that maybe you know what, as parents, maybe we 234 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: need to go ahead and just stock up on Plan 235 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: B at home. And she advised that it be kind 236 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: of as hard as it would to maintain this, it'd 237 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: being no questions, ask policy like, just come come to 238 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: me and come get it if you need it, and 239 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: we'll deal with it. Then just tell her, you know, 240 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: tell your daughter that you that you have it and 241 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: why you hope she'll never need it. Yeah, And I 242 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: mean one thing to to point out with with these 243 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: understandable concerns about opening up a gateway to young girls, 244 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: girls who you know, it might not be a good 245 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: idea for them to be sexually active at such young 246 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: ages when we're thinking about girls under fifteen possibly needing 247 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: emergency contraception. But the Goodmaker Institute also highlights that very 248 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: few young girls are sexually active. Only point three percent 249 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: of ten year olds, point six percent of eleven year olds, 250 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: one point three percent of twelve year olds, and three 251 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: point four percent of thirteen year olds are sexually active. 252 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: But something happens between thirteen and fourteen where that percentage 253 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: jumps from three point four percent of thirteen year olds 254 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: to eight point six percent of fourteen year olds. And 255 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight there were over ten thousand 256 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: pregnancies among fourteen year old girls in the United States. 257 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: But among all that, there is no evidence that that 258 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: jump has anything to do with the availability of emergency 259 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: contraception exactly. But at the same time, it says, you 260 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: know what, putting this fifteen year old age restriction does 261 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: leave out a population that could be in me. Now, 262 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: before we get into some of the reasons why Plan 263 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: B is really just part of a broader discussion that 264 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: we need to be having if we really do want 265 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: to address lowering unintended pregnancy rates and specifically team pregnancy 266 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: in the United States. Let's take a quick detour, though, 267 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: to talk about what exactly emergency contraception is. This is 268 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: something that we covered in our two thousand ten episode 269 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: What Is the Morning After Pill? But it's worth going 270 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: over right now as well. Right So, Plan B, like 271 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,479 Speaker 1: we said, contained the progestin hormone called leave an adjusterrial, 272 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: and you should take it as soon as possible, typically 273 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: less than seventy two hours after unprotected sex. But it 274 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: is worth noting that if you're already pregnant, it will 275 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: not harm the embryo. You will experience some side effects, though, 276 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: the most common of which are nausea and vomiting. You 277 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: might also experience abdominal pain, breath tender, dizziness, fatigue, headaches, 278 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: and irregular bleeding. Yes, emergency contraception is not, I repeat, 279 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: not the same thing as a medicated abortion um and 280 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: most women are satisfied with the results of Plan B. 281 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: There's a nineteen nine study which found that of emergency 282 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: contraceptive users would recommend it actually to friends and family, 283 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: but it is not cheap though. That's another thing with 284 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: this whole you know question about access. We're all freaking out, well, 285 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: you know what, Uh, fifteen year olds or fourteen year 286 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: olds might not even be able to afford it if 287 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 1: they were even allowed to buy it, because it ranges 288 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: from fifty to sixty dollars. And one thing too that 289 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 1: Judge Corman is concerned about is the fact that this 290 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: over the counter stuff is only affecting one brand and 291 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: not a generic, and that is going to do absolutely 292 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: nothing to possibly lower the price of emergency contraceptives and 293 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,719 Speaker 1: may in fact have the market effect of increasing the 294 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: price because Tiva, that drug maker, can say, oh, well, 295 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: you know what, we're the only OTC brand, so you're 296 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: gonna have to pay what we say, which is awful. Yeah. 297 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: But other methods include the Paraguard copper i u D, 298 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: which must be inserted five days after unprotected sex, and 299 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: it's one of the best emergency contraception methods. Uh. They're 300 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: also combination birth control pills estro with estrogen and progestine, 301 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: which you have to take less than five days after 302 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: unprotected sex. And these methods typically prevent pregnancy by preventing 303 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: or delaying ovulation, blocking fertilization, and preventing a fertilized egg 304 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: from implanting in the uterus. Again, it's not terminating a 305 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: pre existing pregnancy. And in terms of the success rate, 306 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: it depends on that time factor that we talked about. Generally, 307 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: one to two out of women who use emergency contraception 308 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: will still get pregnant. Um It may also delay their 309 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: period for a week. But then if your period doesn't 310 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: come around four three to four weeks, you have a 311 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 1: dominant pain, you have spotting, doctors say, you know what 312 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: you need to go ahead and take a pregnancy test. 313 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: But those success rates will diminish the longer that you 314 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: wait to take emergency contraception. Get the paraguard I U 315 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: D used a combination birth control pills, whatever your doctor, 316 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: nurse practitioner recommends in that case. Okay, so we've told 317 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: you a little bit about the fight that's going on 318 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: over Plan B, and we've looked at other methods of 319 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: emergency contraception, but we haven't talked about maybe the downside 320 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: of Plan B and how it's not just a cure 321 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: all for all that ails us. Um it doesn't. It's 322 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: not a panacea for lowering unintended pregnancy and team pregnancy rates, because, 323 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: as we talked about, there are a lot of barriers 324 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 1: to access not just the I D and prescription, but 325 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: also the costs. And this is coming from New York 326 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: Times writer Rony Karen Raven who wrote that a lot 327 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: of studies suggests that many women don't even know the 328 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: morning after pill exists, or if they do know it exists, 329 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: they literally think it only works the morning after, right, 330 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: And these studies also point out that the patterns of 331 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: use generally don't really do much at all to diminish 332 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: unintended pregnancy rates, because emergency contraceptive use is highest among 333 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: women with the lowest risk of pregnancy. Because usually the 334 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: women who go and get the morning after pill and 335 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: take it are the ones who are already practicing safe 336 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,239 Speaker 1: sex and maybe the condom broke or something happened, they 337 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: forgot to take their birth control pill and had sex, 338 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: and you know, they're women who are already mindful of 339 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: preventing unintended pregnancy, and so they then go and get 340 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: emergency contraception, so their actual risk of pregnancy is very low. 341 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: The issue is about getting it into women's hands sooner. 342 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 1: Also these women feeling that education gap among girls and 343 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: women who you know, think that it either only has 344 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,479 Speaker 1: that twenty four hour window or don't really know that 345 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: it exists. Yeah, and a lot of the argument against 346 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: UH granting access to Plan B two younger girls, a 347 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: lot of that fear has to do with kind of 348 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: culturally ingrained fears about casual sex, team pregnancy, single motherhood, 349 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: taking parents and doctors out of the decision to take 350 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: this medicine. And all of that is summed up in 351 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: one quote in The New York Times from Dr Mary Davenport, 352 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: the recent president of the American Association of Pro Life 353 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,199 Speaker 1: Obstetricians and Gynecologists, who said, fear of pregnancy is a 354 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: deterrent to sexual activity. When you introduce something like this, 355 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: it changes people's behaviors and they have more risky sex. 356 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 1: Teams will be counting on this morning after pill to 357 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: bail them out, and they'll have more casual encounters. And 358 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that's just unlikely because of everything we just 359 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: talked about, not only the lack of awareness that it 360 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 1: even exists, but so many barriers to access well. And 361 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: also the fact of the matter is studies have looked 362 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: into the connection between access to emergency contraception and quote 363 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: unquote risky sexual behavior, and the correlation does not stand. 364 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like, like I get a little 365 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: frustrated when people seem to assume that women, some women 366 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: just think of abortion, medicated abortion, emergency contraception, all of 367 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: these things that are not pleasant processes for our bodies. 368 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: It's just pleasant parachutes that we have just used. You know, hey, 369 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 1: we wanna just have some risk of sexual behavior, but 370 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. I'm just gonna have ab cramps and 371 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: abnormal bleeding for a little while, but it's fine, Like, yeah, 372 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: small price to pick. I don't know that that many 373 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: women are thinking like that, but my personal thoughts aside. 374 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists have said point 375 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: blank that making emergency contraception more readily available does not 376 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: promote risky sexual behavior or increase the rate of unintended 377 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: pregnancy among adolescents. Ready access of emergency contraception among adolescents 378 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: is not associated with lower hormonal contraceptive use, lower condom use, 379 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 1: or more unprotected sex. It seems like, in fact, like 380 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: we said with that study finding that it's the women 381 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,640 Speaker 1: who have the lowest risk of pregnancy who are actually 382 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: the highest users of EC emergency contraception. That that would 383 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 1: probably extend down to team populations as well. It's more 384 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 1: about providing comprehensive sex ad because really the fact of 385 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: the matter is this is I mean, it's emergency contraus. 386 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 1: It's called emergency contraception for a reason because the focus 387 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 1: really should be on consistent use of reliable forms of contraception. Right, 388 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: and and you talked about, um, you know, the groups 389 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: of women who are getting easy access to this are 390 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: maybe not the ones who need it the most. Philip 391 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: Levine and Melissa Kearney, for an article in The Atlantic, 392 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: talked about how this issue is really bigger than just contraception. 393 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: The team pregnancy rate issue is so much bigger than 394 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: just having access to contraception like emergency contraception. For instance, 395 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: they wrote that policies like access to plan be family planning, 396 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: abstinence only, education, and sex said don't really address the 397 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: fundamental economic and social issues that drive team pregnancy. Um. 398 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: They argue that we have to improve educational attainment for 399 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 1: young girls, show them valid reasons to delay motherhood, and 400 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: prove to them that they have a reason to invest 401 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: in their future and not just say well, I'm never 402 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: going to get out of this small town, I'm never 403 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: gonna have money, I'm never going to find a man 404 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: worthy of marrying. Why not have a baby now, right? 405 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: And they're saying this because the fact of the matter 406 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: is that girls from disadvantaged backgrounds, from lower socioeconomic groups 407 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: who live in places with a larger gap between the 408 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: poor and middle class are much more likely to give 409 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 1: birth as teens than girls who have similar backgrounds but 410 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: face less inequality. Yea, So income inequality leads to lower 411 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: economic mobility, which results in girls who don't see a 412 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: chance to better their lives, so they are the ones 413 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: who are more likely to have a child. So it's 414 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 1: not just that they're like going out and having risky sex, 415 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 1: you know, for whatever, They're not necessarily being so cavalier 416 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 1: about it. But it's like, well, you know what, what else? 417 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: You know, what else is there? Right? And I mean, 418 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: with all of this, it's no one is arguing that, 419 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: you know, kids should be having sex at younger ages, 420 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: or that we should be a cavalier at all in 421 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 1: our approach to sex or having received sexual behavior. One 422 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: thing that we have not mentioned about emergency contraception is that, hello, 423 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: it does not protect against STDs and s t I 424 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: s um. So it's but it's just part of this 425 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: broader contraceptive education that it's not just team girls who 426 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: need it, it's all of us. And also gets at 427 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 1: a massive fear and discomfort over team sexuality, which as 428 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: much as as adults, I'm sure you know, there's a 429 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: lot of refreshing going on. You don't want to think 430 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: about kids having sex, but it's like, what are we 431 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: gonna do do You either pretend that it's not there 432 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 1: and just hope to put the fear of you might 433 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: get pregnant and end up in a terrible situation, and 434 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: hope to god they just never have sex, which is 435 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: unrealistic because form and exist, or you educate them and 436 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: you grant access and you hopefully are you know, a 437 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 1: wise and brave parent. I save it on an up 438 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: end because it is such a huge challenge. But the 439 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: answer isn't fear. And I feel like a lot of 440 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: the combat against this kind of stuff of access to 441 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,199 Speaker 1: Plan B is very fear motivated. Yeah, because kids are 442 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,239 Speaker 1: gonna do what kids are gonna do, you know, and 443 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: again I think, you know, to tie all of this up. Uh, 444 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: it's sort of like when we talked about the topic 445 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: of abortion a long time ago on the podcast. It's like, 446 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: that's not the ideal situation. You know, that's never an emergency. 447 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 1: Contraception is not the ideal situation. That's why it's the emergency, 448 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: like we said. But you know, I'm now I'm just 449 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: repeating myself there. Well, I mean people aren't popping it 450 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: like candy. I mean, you know, like young girls aren't 451 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: just going out and having sex like you said and 452 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: being like that's okay, I'll just go get an abortion tomorrow, 453 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 1: or I'll just go get at emergency contraception at the 454 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: at the drug store. It's fine. You know, I think 455 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: that's far less common than than something accidental has happened 456 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: or something terrible has happened. And you know, like we 457 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: saw with that huge jump in sexual activity and pregnancy 458 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 1: rates with fourteen year olds, we are by by setting 459 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: what seems to me to be an arbitrary age limit 460 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: of fifteen, we're shutting out a huge group of girls 461 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: who need access. Yeah, access and and just education all around. Um. 462 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:44,479 Speaker 1: So we're recording this episode in may you are listening 463 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: to it right now in June, so I'll be curious 464 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: to see it between now and when this podcast publishes, 465 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: if there will be any movement legally. But I have 466 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: a suspicion that the age limit will be lifted. I 467 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: think at some point that will go away. But I 468 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: want to hear from listeners about this access. I mean, 469 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: is is it too is it too young? You know 470 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: it should fifteen? Is it fine to leave that age 471 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: limit at fifteen? Parents? What do you do? Would you 472 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: do as that in Why Times parenting blogger advice and 473 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: say maybe we should just stock it for them? Hey? 474 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: Why not? Um? Let us sell your thoughts on this 475 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: more political than we usually go issue. Mom Stuff at 476 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: Discovery dot com is where you can send your letters. 477 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: We'd also love to hear from you on Facebook, where 478 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: you can tweet us at moms Stuff podcast. And before 479 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: we get to a couple of messages y'all have sent us, 480 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: let's take just a quick break and we'll be right back. 481 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: And now back to our letters. Well, it got a 482 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,719 Speaker 1: couple of letters here, and the first one I have 483 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: is in response to an episode we did quite a 484 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: while ago on a sexuality and This is from Victory, 485 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 1: who wrote in saying I just wanted to thank you 486 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: for your excellent podcasts and helping me understand my a sexuality. 487 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: They've seen me through many a Monday morning and taught 488 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: me so much about myself in the world from a 489 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: feminist perspective. When you released your podcast on a sexuality, 490 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: that was actually when I figured out that I was 491 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: a sexual and everything that you described was what I 492 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: had been experiencing. That was quite an eye opening experience 493 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: for me because I finally realized where all of the 494 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: confusion involving my sexuality came from. I came out to 495 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: my friends when I was fifteen and had been openly 496 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: a sexual ever since. Thanks again for everything, and thank 497 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: you for writing in. Okay, I have an letter here 498 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: from Ashley. She says, I'm a biologist living in Baltimore, 499 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: and I have an interesting topic that I hear from 500 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: men now that I'm married. I call it the wedding 501 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: ring phenomenon. I first heard about it right before we 502 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: moved to Baltimore. We were having a goodbye dinner with 503 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: a couple of friends when the guy let Colin John 504 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: told us about how he will wear a wedding ring 505 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: while trying to pick up women. John I thought it 506 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: is appalling and completely ludicrous, but my husband thought it 507 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: made sense. The next time I heard about it, it 508 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: was from my husband's old boss, and more recently from 509 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: his current boss. Apparently, they think that men wearing rings 510 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: are considered ideal mates and that women will be attracted 511 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: to them and hit on them. I don't agree with 512 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: this at all. Back when I was single, when I 513 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: saw a ring, I immediately thought that property has taken 514 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: and moved on. My husband thinks that is more of 515 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: a male view and believes that most other women think differently. 516 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: He believes that when the average females he's a male 517 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: with a wedding ring, that she thinks that he must 518 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: have desirable traits and then immediately wants the desirable man 519 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: and acts on that desire. I was curious if you 520 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: know of any research backing this wedding ring phenomenon, or 521 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: if the men in my life are just full of themselves. 522 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: If you do find any research, she says, then I 523 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: have some questions. Does it work both ways? Does it 524 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: only happen between straight people? And to that, I say, 525 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,239 Speaker 1: we do have some answers. And if you want to 526 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: read them, you should go to stuff Mom Never told 527 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: you that humbler dot com, and you know, check out 528 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: some cool stuff while you're there, including answers to wedding 529 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: ring phenomenon yeah and um. While you're at it, if 530 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: you want to drop us a line about what whether 531 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: or not you have ever witnessed this wedding ring phenomenon 532 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: in action, you can email us again Mom seven discovery 533 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: dot com where you can send your letters. We also 534 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: love to hear from you on Facebook and on Twitter 535 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: at mom Stuff podcast, and like Caroline said, we're on 536 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: Tumbler as well. You can follow us where it's stuff 537 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: I've Never Told You dot tumbler dot com, and don't 538 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: forget to watch us three times a week coming at 539 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: you on YouTube at YouTube dot com slash stuff Mom 540 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: Never Told You. Go on over there and subscribe for 541 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Is how 542 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com