1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:28,156 Speaker 1: Pushkin I am. I am proud to say a yimb 2 00:00:29,396 --> 00:00:32,916 Speaker 1: yes in my backyard. I have come to my ymbi 3 00:00:32,996 --> 00:00:35,036 Speaker 1: this recently, so I have all the zeal of the 4 00:00:35,076 --> 00:00:39,236 Speaker 1: recently converted. Yimby stands for building as much housing as 5 00:00:39,276 --> 00:00:44,116 Speaker 1: is humanly possible, performing stupid zoning laws, outdated building codes. 6 00:00:44,356 --> 00:00:49,196 Speaker 1: Yimb hates minimum lot sizes, setback zoning, mandatory parking requirements, 7 00:00:49,316 --> 00:00:53,476 Speaker 1: run control anything that makes building new things more expensive. 8 00:00:54,316 --> 00:00:57,236 Speaker 1: Nimby thinks that when it comes to cities, America peaked 9 00:00:57,236 --> 00:00:59,756 Speaker 1: around nineteen ten and we should just roll back the 10 00:00:59,836 --> 00:01:02,716 Speaker 1: zoning block one hundred years. Yimby walks through one of 11 00:01:02,756 --> 00:01:06,636 Speaker 1: those absurdly picturesque New England villages or some breezy southern 12 00:01:06,636 --> 00:01:09,956 Speaker 1: California beach town, and by the way, Yimby only ever 13 00:01:09,996 --> 00:01:15,276 Speaker 1: walks or maybe cycles. Yimb never drives and asks where 14 00:01:15,396 --> 00:01:19,916 Speaker 1: the multi family apartment buildings. My social media feed is 15 00:01:19,956 --> 00:01:24,316 Speaker 1: basically just other yimbi's shout out to Alicia courtyard urbanists 16 00:01:24,316 --> 00:01:27,716 Speaker 1: from Chicago, who posts something about how building European style 17 00:01:27,796 --> 00:01:31,396 Speaker 1: courtyard apartment buildings will save the American Republic every day, 18 00:01:32,436 --> 00:01:35,076 Speaker 1: and I am so down for every one of those tweets. 19 00:01:37,436 --> 00:01:41,716 Speaker 1: Yimby stands at the intersection of righteous indignation and nerdiness, 20 00:01:42,036 --> 00:01:45,156 Speaker 1: a street corner where I have lived my entire adult life. 21 00:01:45,956 --> 00:01:46,796 Speaker 1: I am Yimby. 22 00:01:47,596 --> 00:01:48,556 Speaker 2: Hear me roar. 23 00:01:52,316 --> 00:01:55,676 Speaker 1: So deep into this ever expanding series on mistakes. I 24 00:01:55,676 --> 00:01:59,076 Speaker 1: asked myself, what would Yimbi's idea of a mistake be? 25 00:01:59,476 --> 00:02:04,316 Speaker 1: What error, what miscalculation would most enrage the universe of Yimby? 26 00:02:05,236 --> 00:02:10,836 Speaker 1: And upon consultations with my Yimbi comrades, I've found a 27 00:02:10,876 --> 00:02:14,436 Speaker 1: single line on a building code proposal filled out by 28 00:02:14,436 --> 00:02:20,196 Speaker 1: a fire inspector in Glendale, Arizona named Gregory A. Victor, 29 00:02:20,996 --> 00:02:27,036 Speaker 1: concerning wait for it, elevators. This is the story of 30 00:02:27,116 --> 00:02:29,636 Speaker 1: the Great American elevator tragedy. 31 00:02:31,676 --> 00:02:33,796 Speaker 2: Yeah, I could not find a high income country that 32 00:02:33,836 --> 00:02:36,596 Speaker 2: had fewer elevators per capita than the United States. 33 00:02:36,676 --> 00:02:39,076 Speaker 1: Meet one of the crown princes of YUMBI my new 34 00:02:39,076 --> 00:02:42,276 Speaker 1: best friend, Stephen Smith, director of the Center for Building 35 00:02:42,356 --> 00:02:44,916 Speaker 1: in North America. He will guide us through the tangled 36 00:02:44,956 --> 00:02:48,796 Speaker 1: history leading up to mister Victor's massive air. 37 00:02:50,596 --> 00:02:53,316 Speaker 2: Greece has about half the elevators that the United States does, 38 00:02:53,356 --> 00:02:55,636 Speaker 2: which is pretty surprising since Greece has a population of 39 00:02:55,676 --> 00:02:57,476 Speaker 2: around ten million in the US. Is I don't know, 40 00:02:57,516 --> 00:02:59,236 Speaker 2: three hundred and forty millions incredible? 41 00:02:59,436 --> 00:03:00,316 Speaker 1: That's incredible. 42 00:03:00,876 --> 00:03:03,836 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean yeah, I mean a lot of people 43 00:03:03,836 --> 00:03:06,436 Speaker 2: in Greece live in a little, four story, four unit 44 00:03:06,476 --> 00:03:09,076 Speaker 2: apartment building with a tiny, little elevator. 45 00:03:10,076 --> 00:03:13,356 Speaker 1: This is Revision is History, my podcast about things overlooked 46 00:03:13,396 --> 00:03:17,876 Speaker 1: and misunderstood. Some of you may be thinking, I'm not 47 00:03:17,956 --> 00:03:20,516 Speaker 1: seriously going to listen to half an hour on elevators, 48 00:03:20,556 --> 00:03:23,716 Speaker 1: am I? And my answer to you is, oh, yes 49 00:03:23,836 --> 00:03:26,796 Speaker 1: you are. And at the end you will turn to 50 00:03:26,836 --> 00:03:29,836 Speaker 1: your loved ones and you will say, I too, am 51 00:03:29,876 --> 00:03:42,676 Speaker 1: now ymbie hear me, roar What do your friends say 52 00:03:42,676 --> 00:03:45,076 Speaker 1: about your elevators? 53 00:03:45,356 --> 00:03:48,836 Speaker 2: And talk about building codes to friends? It's a good 54 00:03:48,876 --> 00:03:53,076 Speaker 2: way to out of friends. You know, you cannot be serious. 55 00:03:53,116 --> 00:03:55,876 Speaker 1: You don't have long conversations with elevators with your friends. 56 00:03:55,996 --> 00:03:59,076 Speaker 2: Of course I do it drive them nuts about it elevators. 57 00:03:59,156 --> 00:04:01,796 Speaker 2: You know, sometimes they'll ask a question about something and 58 00:04:01,956 --> 00:04:03,996 Speaker 2: I got a little fun fact for them. But it's 59 00:04:03,996 --> 00:04:06,836 Speaker 2: not a good way to keep friends to talk about elevators. 60 00:04:06,396 --> 00:04:09,396 Speaker 1: Till I am ers Stephen, I am that exception. Should 61 00:04:09,436 --> 00:04:11,356 Speaker 1: I ever be at a party with you, Fronds, Should 62 00:04:11,356 --> 00:04:14,916 Speaker 1: I ever be at a party with you, you have you 63 00:04:15,036 --> 00:04:17,316 Speaker 1: have carte blanche to trap me in a corner and 64 00:04:17,356 --> 00:04:19,436 Speaker 1: talk about elevators for two hours. 65 00:04:19,676 --> 00:04:21,396 Speaker 2: I'm going to talk about something way more. We're gonna 66 00:04:21,396 --> 00:04:24,396 Speaker 2: talk about like handrails or windows, or you know, pushing 67 00:04:24,436 --> 00:04:25,916 Speaker 2: it beyond elevators. 68 00:04:26,436 --> 00:04:32,516 Speaker 1: My producer is laughing in the background. The modern elevator 69 00:04:32,556 --> 00:04:35,996 Speaker 1: is an American invention. The earliest elevators were made in 70 00:04:35,996 --> 00:04:40,076 Speaker 1: the mid nineteenth century by Elisha Otis of Vermont, whose 71 00:04:40,156 --> 00:04:45,476 Speaker 1: startup Otis Elevators remains one of the world's largest elevator companies. 72 00:04:46,316 --> 00:04:50,316 Speaker 1: Otis installed the world's first commercial elevator in the Howart 73 00:04:50,356 --> 00:04:54,316 Speaker 1: Building on the corner of Broadway and Broome Street in Manhattan, Soho, 74 00:04:54,756 --> 00:04:58,196 Speaker 1: which still stands. The vertical city in New York that 75 00:04:58,436 --> 00:05:01,916 Speaker 1: grew up around the Hallwart Building was made possible by 76 00:05:01,956 --> 00:05:06,236 Speaker 1: Otis's invention. But at some point between then and now, 77 00:05:06,796 --> 00:05:11,916 Speaker 1: the era of American elevator dominant began to sputter. If 78 00:05:11,956 --> 00:05:14,676 Speaker 1: you were an ordinary working American who lives in a 79 00:05:14,756 --> 00:05:17,556 Speaker 1: split level out in the suburbs and works in an 80 00:05:17,556 --> 00:05:21,156 Speaker 1: office park, maybe you didn't notice, but you know who 81 00:05:21,156 --> 00:05:27,276 Speaker 1: did Ymby noticed, in particular Stephen Smith. This goes back 82 00:05:27,316 --> 00:05:29,956 Speaker 1: a few years just after Smith has started a small 83 00:05:30,036 --> 00:05:33,796 Speaker 1: Ymby think tank center for building in North America. He'd 84 00:05:33,836 --> 00:05:37,716 Speaker 1: been a journalist, then real estate, but his true passion, 85 00:05:37,756 --> 00:05:41,716 Speaker 1: he realized, lay elsewhere building codes. 86 00:05:42,716 --> 00:05:46,836 Speaker 2: I mean, academia doesn't study building codes. The more prestigious 87 00:05:46,876 --> 00:05:50,076 Speaker 2: you are an as an academic architect, you know, the 88 00:05:50,116 --> 00:05:53,956 Speaker 2: more esoteric you're getting, and you know degrowth theory and 89 00:05:54,276 --> 00:05:56,956 Speaker 2: you know things that are kind of divorced from the 90 00:05:57,356 --> 00:05:59,596 Speaker 2: actual practice of putting one brick on another and nail 91 00:05:59,636 --> 00:06:03,516 Speaker 2: and a piece of what. So you know, academia didn't 92 00:06:03,516 --> 00:06:07,676 Speaker 2: cover it. I don't know who else was going to 93 00:06:07,676 --> 00:06:10,196 Speaker 2: get into it, and you know, get into construction because 94 00:06:10,196 --> 00:06:11,716 Speaker 2: you love reading and writing. So there's just not a 95 00:06:11,716 --> 00:06:15,076 Speaker 2: whole lot written about it. So I decided to do 96 00:06:15,116 --> 00:06:15,556 Speaker 2: it myself. 97 00:06:15,556 --> 00:06:18,676 Speaker 1: He raised money, set up shop, and right away something 98 00:06:18,756 --> 00:06:19,396 Speaker 1: caught his eye. 99 00:06:20,596 --> 00:06:22,796 Speaker 2: There was some it was a post on when it 100 00:06:22,876 --> 00:06:25,036 Speaker 2: back when it was called Twitter, it was still good 101 00:06:25,076 --> 00:06:26,836 Speaker 2: for this kind of thing that went viral with some 102 00:06:27,596 --> 00:06:31,156 Speaker 2: developer who had built a little three story, twelve unit 103 00:06:31,196 --> 00:06:34,356 Speaker 2: apartment building in Minneapolis and was sort of bragging about, 104 00:06:34,396 --> 00:06:36,916 Speaker 2: you know, it's pretty affordable, and he was kind of listing. 105 00:06:38,196 --> 00:06:40,196 Speaker 2: He was talking about the simplicity of the project. You know, 106 00:06:40,236 --> 00:06:43,276 Speaker 2: it's like, doesn't have any parking, great, uh, doesn't have 107 00:06:43,276 --> 00:06:47,196 Speaker 2: an elevator. And it kicked up sort of like a 108 00:06:47,236 --> 00:06:50,876 Speaker 2: firestorm on a Twitter. If you elevator, what about disabled? 109 00:06:50,876 --> 00:06:52,476 Speaker 2: You know, I guess disabled people can just go and 110 00:06:52,516 --> 00:06:55,356 Speaker 2: die whatever. And I remember thinking like, well, three story 111 00:06:55,396 --> 00:06:57,556 Speaker 2: building in America, I mean, they never have elevators. That's 112 00:06:57,596 --> 00:07:01,876 Speaker 2: not that unusual. But at the time I happened to 113 00:07:01,876 --> 00:07:04,316 Speaker 2: be in France and I was thinking, well, wait a minute, 114 00:07:04,436 --> 00:07:07,036 Speaker 2: a new three story building in France generally does have 115 00:07:07,076 --> 00:07:11,836 Speaker 2: an elevator, So why is that? And I asked my friend, 116 00:07:11,796 --> 00:07:13,836 Speaker 2: who's the architect, you know, how much does an elevator 117 00:07:13,876 --> 00:07:15,516 Speaker 2: cost in Italy for a three story building? And he 118 00:07:15,596 --> 00:07:18,196 Speaker 2: was like, I don't know, twenty thirty thousand euros. I said, well, 119 00:07:18,236 --> 00:07:20,076 Speaker 2: there must be some missunerstanding. There's no way an elevator 120 00:07:20,116 --> 00:07:22,956 Speaker 2: costs twenty or thirty thousand euros netally doesn't make any sense. 121 00:07:22,996 --> 00:07:25,236 Speaker 2: That's a small fraction, you know, in the US that 122 00:07:25,236 --> 00:07:27,716 Speaker 2: would be I don't know, one hundred and twenty one 123 00:07:27,756 --> 00:07:28,916 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand dollars. 124 00:07:29,036 --> 00:07:31,756 Speaker 1: Why on earth would an elevator be five times the 125 00:07:31,876 --> 00:07:34,596 Speaker 1: cost in America as it is in Europe. He went 126 00:07:34,636 --> 00:07:38,676 Speaker 1: back home, moved apartments, and suddenly the question was all 127 00:07:38,676 --> 00:07:41,436 Speaker 1: he could think about. So you live in Brooklyn. 128 00:07:42,396 --> 00:07:44,796 Speaker 2: I live in Brooklyn. I live in a five story building. 129 00:07:44,836 --> 00:07:47,236 Speaker 2: There are two units on each floor. It's on a 130 00:07:47,396 --> 00:07:50,756 Speaker 2: very small lot. It's on a lot that's roughly the 131 00:07:50,836 --> 00:07:53,276 Speaker 2: footprint of the building is about twelve hundred square feet 132 00:07:53,316 --> 00:07:56,476 Speaker 2: and there are five stories, seven apartments over a very 133 00:07:56,476 --> 00:07:57,596 Speaker 2: popular vintage store. 134 00:07:58,956 --> 00:08:00,076 Speaker 1: What floor you want. 135 00:08:01,076 --> 00:08:06,956 Speaker 2: I'm on the third floor. And in Europe it would 136 00:08:06,996 --> 00:08:08,636 Speaker 2: have been hard to stick an elevator in the building, 137 00:08:08,636 --> 00:08:10,476 Speaker 2: but you could done it. I've seen I've seen floor 138 00:08:10,516 --> 00:08:13,556 Speaker 2: plants from France especially, They're very good at sticking out, 139 00:08:13,596 --> 00:08:16,556 Speaker 2: you know, a little spiral staircase and a very small elevator. 140 00:08:16,796 --> 00:08:18,756 Speaker 2: You could have gotten an elevator in the building. There 141 00:08:18,836 --> 00:08:20,756 Speaker 2: is no way in hell you could have gotten an 142 00:08:20,756 --> 00:08:25,236 Speaker 2: elevator in the building with anything even conceivably close to 143 00:08:25,276 --> 00:08:27,596 Speaker 2: our current rules. But in France they would have done it. 144 00:08:27,596 --> 00:08:29,036 Speaker 2: In France's building would have an elevator. 145 00:08:29,076 --> 00:08:32,996 Speaker 1: I believe, and for Steven this was a problem and 146 00:08:33,076 --> 00:08:35,516 Speaker 1: with the result that when you had a period of 147 00:08:36,036 --> 00:08:37,996 Speaker 1: your life, as I read in an elevator report, where 148 00:08:38,036 --> 00:08:39,356 Speaker 1: you were effectively disabled. 149 00:08:40,596 --> 00:08:44,196 Speaker 2: Yes, I had some mysterious virus in twenty seventeen. Turned 150 00:08:44,236 --> 00:08:45,916 Speaker 2: out to be the sort of long COVID like illness. 151 00:08:45,916 --> 00:08:49,076 Speaker 2: Obviously not from COVID because it was twenty seventeen, And yeah, 152 00:08:49,116 --> 00:08:52,716 Speaker 2: I had I still do have a disease called pots 153 00:08:52,756 --> 00:08:54,556 Speaker 2: where you stand up and your heart rate goes well, 154 00:08:54,636 --> 00:08:58,116 Speaker 2: a lot of fatigue, probably an autoimmune disease that has 155 00:08:58,116 --> 00:09:02,036 Speaker 2: not really been understood very well yet. And yeah, it 156 00:09:02,116 --> 00:09:06,476 Speaker 2: was difficult. You know, there were definitely days where what 157 00:09:06,556 --> 00:09:09,076 Speaker 2: happens is when you exert yourself you pay for it 158 00:09:09,116 --> 00:09:11,236 Speaker 2: physically in kind of intense ways. You get sort of 159 00:09:11,276 --> 00:09:15,036 Speaker 2: brain fog and extreme fatigue. You know, might sleep twelve 160 00:09:15,116 --> 00:09:20,036 Speaker 2: thirteen hours the day, and so yeah, there were days when, 161 00:09:20,156 --> 00:09:21,676 Speaker 2: like I think it would have been nice to go 162 00:09:21,716 --> 00:09:22,876 Speaker 2: for a walk, and I didn't because I was on 163 00:09:22,916 --> 00:09:23,476 Speaker 2: the third floor. 164 00:09:23,596 --> 00:09:27,836 Speaker 1: Yeah, in one of the most desirable neighborhoods in the 165 00:09:27,836 --> 00:09:31,756 Speaker 1: wealthiest city in the premier country in the world, there 166 00:09:31,796 --> 00:09:35,836 Speaker 1: is a brand new apartment building that is effectively off limits, 167 00:09:35,876 --> 00:09:39,436 Speaker 1: segregated from anyone who is not fit enough to walk 168 00:09:39,516 --> 00:09:43,876 Speaker 1: up multiple flights of stairs. And why because the United 169 00:09:43,916 --> 00:09:47,276 Speaker 1: States has somehow given up on the widespread adoption of 170 00:09:47,276 --> 00:09:50,956 Speaker 1: a technology that it invented one hundred and fifty years ago. 171 00:09:51,556 --> 00:09:56,076 Speaker 1: But you're building, no old person could ever move into 172 00:09:56,076 --> 00:09:56,556 Speaker 1: your building. 173 00:09:57,476 --> 00:09:58,916 Speaker 2: I think I'm the oldest person who lives in the 174 00:09:58,916 --> 00:10:03,676 Speaker 2: middle thirty seven. I mean this is I think I'm 175 00:10:03,676 --> 00:10:04,156 Speaker 2: the oldest. 176 00:10:04,356 --> 00:10:08,636 Speaker 1: See, this is the whole this whole thing is just nuts. Yes, 177 00:10:09,516 --> 00:10:13,076 Speaker 1: it is nuts. Smith spent two years trying to answer 178 00:10:13,156 --> 00:10:15,956 Speaker 1: the question of why Americans gave up on the elevator. 179 00:10:16,676 --> 00:10:21,996 Speaker 1: The result, entitled Elevators, is maybe the most comprehensive. And 180 00:10:22,036 --> 00:10:26,436 Speaker 1: I'm not just saying this because I'm yimbi fascinating exploration 181 00:10:26,756 --> 00:10:29,076 Speaker 1: of a topic that I'm guessing few of you have 182 00:10:29,076 --> 00:10:33,396 Speaker 1: ever thought about. One hundred and twenty two pages beginning 183 00:10:33,476 --> 00:10:36,636 Speaker 1: with a sentence right out of some nineteenth century novel. 184 00:10:37,636 --> 00:10:41,036 Speaker 1: In late twenty twenty, tired of my old Brooklyn apartment, 185 00:10:41,396 --> 00:10:44,996 Speaker 1: historic and charming, but loud and full of maintenance hassles, 186 00:10:45,596 --> 00:10:48,156 Speaker 1: I put my co op unit on the market and 187 00:10:48,316 --> 00:10:59,676 Speaker 1: set out to buy a new condo. Some of the 188 00:10:59,716 --> 00:11:03,836 Speaker 1: reasons why American elevators are so expensive are not surprising. 189 00:11:04,556 --> 00:11:10,156 Speaker 1: Chapter four of Smith's magnum Opus is entitled Labor. Labor 190 00:11:10,236 --> 00:11:12,476 Speaker 1: is the elephant in the room of the elevator industry. 191 00:11:12,516 --> 00:11:16,596 Speaker 1: He writes, the workforce that builds and maintains elevators is 192 00:11:16,676 --> 00:11:21,836 Speaker 1: small and specialized and highly unionized. And nowhere are those 193 00:11:21,876 --> 00:11:25,636 Speaker 1: things more true than in the United States. The most 194 00:11:25,676 --> 00:11:28,756 Speaker 1: cost effective way to build an elevator is to assemble 195 00:11:28,756 --> 00:11:31,436 Speaker 1: the whole thing in a factory, then ship it to 196 00:11:31,476 --> 00:11:34,116 Speaker 1: the building site and drop it in with a crane. 197 00:11:34,836 --> 00:11:37,356 Speaker 1: That's what they do in Europe. But in the United 198 00:11:37,396 --> 00:11:42,556 Speaker 1: States the Elevator Union insists on assembling the elevators themselves, 199 00:11:43,356 --> 00:11:45,996 Speaker 1: so everything is assembled in the factory, shipped to the 200 00:11:45,996 --> 00:11:50,916 Speaker 1: building site, then disassembled and put back together in the 201 00:11:50,916 --> 00:11:55,116 Speaker 1: cramped confines of the elevator shaft where. 202 00:11:54,876 --> 00:11:57,076 Speaker 2: It's really bad. As the sort of sister industry of 203 00:11:57,116 --> 00:12:00,076 Speaker 2: the elevators, which is the escalators. I mean an escalator 204 00:12:00,116 --> 00:12:02,956 Speaker 2: truly is almost fully assembled in a factory abroad and 205 00:12:02,996 --> 00:12:06,876 Speaker 2: then craned onto site, and in North America you're taking 206 00:12:06,876 --> 00:12:09,396 Speaker 2: it apart. There was this I found a sort of 207 00:12:09,396 --> 00:12:11,596 Speaker 2: newsletter from the iue C, the you know the North 208 00:12:11,596 --> 00:12:14,156 Speaker 2: American Union, where the guy who runs it, or you know, 209 00:12:14,196 --> 00:12:16,876 Speaker 2: one of the another general president or something is sort 210 00:12:16,916 --> 00:12:18,796 Speaker 2: of bragging to his membership. I mean he's trying to 211 00:12:18,796 --> 00:12:21,316 Speaker 2: promote his leadership and he says, you know, you don't 212 00:12:21,316 --> 00:12:24,556 Speaker 2: know how hard it is to convince an arbitrator that 213 00:12:24,636 --> 00:12:26,316 Speaker 2: you know, you got to take apart this escalator. 214 00:12:26,356 --> 00:12:28,196 Speaker 1: At that point we were interrupted. 215 00:12:28,996 --> 00:12:34,276 Speaker 2: I apologize. Somebody's ringing my door out. Okay, I don't 216 00:12:34,276 --> 00:12:35,916 Speaker 2: know whether that package was for me, but they're going 217 00:12:35,956 --> 00:12:37,156 Speaker 2: to leave in the lobby because I don't have an 218 00:12:37,156 --> 00:12:37,596 Speaker 2: elevator in. 219 00:12:37,596 --> 00:12:41,036 Speaker 1: My builka where were we This is like my kids 220 00:12:41,036 --> 00:12:45,556 Speaker 1: with with their with their with their Magan tiles, their lego. 221 00:12:45,716 --> 00:12:48,396 Speaker 1: Like they at the end of the day they take 222 00:12:48,436 --> 00:12:50,876 Speaker 1: whatever they built and they smush it. Yeah, and then 223 00:12:50,876 --> 00:12:54,396 Speaker 1: they rebuild it the next day. Yes, exactly like my 224 00:12:54,516 --> 00:12:56,236 Speaker 1: kids with their magnetiles. 225 00:12:57,276 --> 00:12:59,836 Speaker 2: There are parts of the elevator I've seen in in 226 00:13:00,476 --> 00:13:03,916 Speaker 2: settlement agreements or lawsuits. You know, most of the stuff 227 00:13:03,956 --> 00:13:07,996 Speaker 2: happens behind closed doors are literally in a tight shaft 228 00:13:08,236 --> 00:13:10,036 Speaker 2: and you don't get a lot of insight into it. 229 00:13:10,076 --> 00:13:12,396 Speaker 2: But you see it in court cases and in settlement 230 00:13:12,436 --> 00:13:15,836 Speaker 2: agreements that should not be posted online but are sometimes. 231 00:13:16,076 --> 00:13:23,236 Speaker 2: And there's this one at an arbitration case or legal case, 232 00:13:23,236 --> 00:13:26,556 Speaker 2: I don't know what it was, where you know they're 233 00:13:26,556 --> 00:13:29,396 Speaker 2: saying something like, you know, it's common practice for us 234 00:13:29,396 --> 00:13:30,996 Speaker 2: to take something apart and put it off together, but 235 00:13:31,036 --> 00:13:33,076 Speaker 2: you need to prove that you took it apart. So otherwise, 236 00:13:33,156 --> 00:13:34,956 Speaker 2: what's to say you didn't just hang out playing on 237 00:13:34,996 --> 00:13:36,516 Speaker 2: your cell phone in the shaft, and so you know, 238 00:13:36,556 --> 00:13:38,116 Speaker 2: the practice is for you to sign your name on 239 00:13:38,196 --> 00:13:39,756 Speaker 2: the part, so if you take it apart, the manager 240 00:13:39,756 --> 00:13:41,076 Speaker 2: can see you really took it apart. 241 00:13:41,276 --> 00:13:44,556 Speaker 1: Now, as crazy as this is, it doesn't really answer 242 00:13:44,636 --> 00:13:48,116 Speaker 1: the question. Yes, the elevator unions are stronger in the 243 00:13:48,236 --> 00:13:52,516 Speaker 1: US than europe. Elevator technicians get paid more. American elevated 244 00:13:52,556 --> 00:13:56,476 Speaker 1: workers insist on doing dumb things like taking apart, already 245 00:13:56,516 --> 00:14:01,116 Speaker 1: build elevators like small children with their magnetiles. But none 246 00:14:01,116 --> 00:14:04,476 Speaker 1: of these things explain why an American elevator would be 247 00:14:04,836 --> 00:14:08,876 Speaker 1: five times more expensive than its European counterpart. There has 248 00:14:08,916 --> 00:14:12,636 Speaker 1: to be an even more important reason. I oh, yes, there. 249 00:14:12,476 --> 00:14:16,676 Speaker 2: Is European cabins are roughly half. For let's say, for 250 00:14:16,716 --> 00:14:18,756 Speaker 2: a new six story apartment building with a couple of 251 00:14:18,796 --> 00:14:21,916 Speaker 2: units per floor, the cabin size in Europe is about 252 00:14:21,956 --> 00:14:23,596 Speaker 2: half the size. Really, the whole rest of the world 253 00:14:23,756 --> 00:14:25,316 Speaker 2: is about half the size that it is in the 254 00:14:25,396 --> 00:14:28,276 Speaker 2: US and Canada. And that's because number one, they don't 255 00:14:28,316 --> 00:14:35,916 Speaker 2: require spaces. I mean, it's for accessibility. But exactly what 256 00:14:36,036 --> 00:14:38,596 Speaker 2: it is it is never really written down, but probably 257 00:14:38,636 --> 00:14:41,596 Speaker 2: something like a turning radius for a wheelchair. The European 258 00:14:41,596 --> 00:14:43,596 Speaker 2: one will accommodate a wheelchair, in fact, that's what it's 259 00:14:43,636 --> 00:14:46,796 Speaker 2: designed for, but you'll probably have to either back in 260 00:14:47,156 --> 00:14:49,196 Speaker 2: or back out one or the other. 261 00:14:50,756 --> 00:14:54,316 Speaker 1: In Europe, Steven Smith's building would have an elevator because 262 00:14:54,356 --> 00:14:57,716 Speaker 1: Europeans are willing to live with pine sized elevators. In 263 00:14:57,756 --> 00:15:01,356 Speaker 1: America we aren't, which seems to make good sense, right 264 00:15:01,676 --> 00:15:03,876 Speaker 1: because what if you had a heart attack and you're 265 00:15:03,916 --> 00:15:06,876 Speaker 1: on a stretcher, you'd want your exit from your fifth 266 00:15:06,876 --> 00:15:09,956 Speaker 1: floor apartment to be a speedy and if a as possible, 267 00:15:10,876 --> 00:15:14,836 Speaker 1: Except that in insisting that elevators be really large for 268 00:15:14,916 --> 00:15:17,796 Speaker 1: those very rare occasions when a large elevator would be 269 00:15:17,836 --> 00:15:21,556 Speaker 1: really convenient, you make the elevator so bulky that it 270 00:15:21,636 --> 00:15:24,556 Speaker 1: can't fit in a lot of smaller buildings, and so 271 00:15:24,636 --> 00:15:27,916 Speaker 1: expensive that no one trying to build affordable housing has 272 00:15:27,956 --> 00:15:30,756 Speaker 1: the means to put an elevator in their building, with 273 00:15:30,876 --> 00:15:33,596 Speaker 1: the result that if you're in a wheelchair, you simply 274 00:15:33,636 --> 00:15:36,356 Speaker 1: can't live in Stephen Smith's building. And if you have 275 00:15:36,396 --> 00:15:38,676 Speaker 1: a heart attack on the fifth floor, the medics are 276 00:15:38,756 --> 00:15:41,436 Speaker 1: going to have to drag you down five flights of stairs. 277 00:15:42,516 --> 00:15:45,116 Speaker 1: Have you ever heard the expression the perfect is the 278 00:15:45,236 --> 00:15:49,556 Speaker 1: enemy of the good. This is American elevator policy. This 279 00:15:49,676 --> 00:15:52,836 Speaker 1: is like saying, too many people are dying in car accidents. 280 00:15:53,156 --> 00:15:55,316 Speaker 1: Let's mandate that everyone has to drive to the store 281 00:15:55,316 --> 00:16:00,316 Speaker 1: in a tank. Problem solved, right, Well, that problem solved, 282 00:16:00,636 --> 00:16:03,036 Speaker 1: But now you have a million other bigger problems like 283 00:16:03,396 --> 00:16:07,196 Speaker 1: massively congested highways, torn up roads, no parking, and most 284 00:16:07,196 --> 00:16:10,596 Speaker 1: of all, since a tank costs fifteen million dollars, only 285 00:16:10,676 --> 00:16:13,596 Speaker 1: super rich people would be able to drive to the store. 286 00:16:16,716 --> 00:16:19,636 Speaker 1: In the spirit of trying to make the world a 287 00:16:19,676 --> 00:16:23,236 Speaker 1: fair place, we've made the world in this one dimension 288 00:16:24,076 --> 00:16:25,516 Speaker 1: and a much less fair place. 289 00:16:27,636 --> 00:16:32,116 Speaker 2: I would say, so, yes, you know, if you're sort 290 00:16:32,116 --> 00:16:34,436 Speaker 2: of elderly, maybe you'll go into cardiac arrest, and it 291 00:16:34,476 --> 00:16:36,836 Speaker 2: would be helpful to have an elevator that can accommodate 292 00:16:36,876 --> 00:16:39,756 Speaker 2: a fully flat stretcher, so you know, someone can continue 293 00:16:39,756 --> 00:16:41,716 Speaker 2: to do chest compressions on you while you go down. 294 00:16:41,756 --> 00:16:44,716 Speaker 2: But you know, most people will never be in that situation, 295 00:16:44,876 --> 00:16:47,036 Speaker 2: or frankly, if they are, they'll die. Anyway, The out 296 00:16:47,076 --> 00:16:49,716 Speaker 2: of hospital cardiac or rest survival rate is very low, 297 00:16:51,236 --> 00:16:53,516 Speaker 2: but you know, pretty much everyone gets to a point 298 00:16:53,596 --> 00:16:55,236 Speaker 2: or at least if you're lucky in life, where you 299 00:16:55,236 --> 00:16:57,316 Speaker 2: can't really use the stairs, but you could, you know, 300 00:16:57,356 --> 00:17:01,076 Speaker 2: stand with a walker in a small elevator. So yeah, 301 00:17:01,076 --> 00:17:04,596 Speaker 2: we really look for these edge cases, try to solve them, 302 00:17:04,636 --> 00:17:07,916 Speaker 2: and then kind of throw our hands up when people 303 00:17:07,916 --> 00:17:09,756 Speaker 2: don't have elevators at all, like, oh, it's just a 304 00:17:09,796 --> 00:17:12,356 Speaker 2: greedy developer or whatever, and just kind of ignored the 305 00:17:12,436 --> 00:17:14,676 Speaker 2: underlying economics of the situation, which was that if you 306 00:17:14,716 --> 00:17:16,716 Speaker 2: make the elevator three to four times expensive, you get 307 00:17:16,756 --> 00:17:17,916 Speaker 2: a lot fewer elevators. 308 00:17:20,356 --> 00:17:23,116 Speaker 1: Trying to get to perfect when good is good enough 309 00:17:23,316 --> 00:17:26,636 Speaker 1: is a mistake, and the road to mega elevators was 310 00:17:26,676 --> 00:17:29,436 Speaker 1: a ligned with one hundred mistakes made over many years, 311 00:17:29,796 --> 00:17:32,996 Speaker 1: but the one that really provoked my mbire was the 312 00:17:33,036 --> 00:17:38,356 Speaker 1: mistake detailed on page fifty of Stephen Smith's Elevators, section 313 00:17:38,476 --> 00:17:42,316 Speaker 1: three dot three dot two, committed in the Heedless Pursuit 314 00:17:42,396 --> 00:17:47,436 Speaker 1: of Perfection by a certain Gregory, a Victor fire inspector 315 00:17:48,036 --> 00:18:06,036 Speaker 1: of Glendale, Arizona. You want to design an apartment building in, 316 00:18:06,116 --> 00:18:10,116 Speaker 1: say to Peka, Kansas. You can't just put the stairs 317 00:18:10,116 --> 00:18:13,556 Speaker 1: and windows and the fire exits wherever you want. You 318 00:18:13,636 --> 00:18:16,636 Speaker 1: have to adhere to a set of common standards. And 319 00:18:16,676 --> 00:18:19,916 Speaker 1: those standards are found in a very big book written 320 00:18:19,956 --> 00:18:23,676 Speaker 1: and maintained and updated by a nonprofit called the International 321 00:18:23,716 --> 00:18:27,196 Speaker 1: Code Council, based in Washington, d C. In one of 322 00:18:27,196 --> 00:18:30,316 Speaker 1: those Bland office buildings not far from the Capitol. 323 00:18:31,836 --> 00:18:33,796 Speaker 2: Anytime you see an international in a word in the 324 00:18:33,916 --> 00:18:36,476 Speaker 2: United States related to construction, it's a lie. It's the 325 00:18:36,596 --> 00:18:38,916 Speaker 2: US Building Code, but it's called the International Building Code, 326 00:18:38,916 --> 00:18:42,316 Speaker 2: the IBC. It has international aspirations. Everywhere in the country. 327 00:18:42,316 --> 00:18:44,716 Speaker 2: You st to have its own building code more or less, 328 00:18:44,716 --> 00:18:48,076 Speaker 2: and then they've sort of become homogenized harmonized over time, 329 00:18:48,596 --> 00:18:51,476 Speaker 2: and so now there's a national code called the International 330 00:18:51,516 --> 00:18:55,436 Speaker 2: Building Code, which forms the basis and really the vast 331 00:18:55,516 --> 00:18:56,556 Speaker 2: vast majority of every code. 332 00:18:56,716 --> 00:18:58,636 Speaker 1: If you walk down a street and hate the way 333 00:18:58,756 --> 00:19:01,996 Speaker 1: modern buildings look, or you don't understand why corridors in 334 00:19:02,036 --> 00:19:05,236 Speaker 1: the hallway of your apartment building are so long, then 335 00:19:05,356 --> 00:19:09,716 Speaker 1: you have a problem with The International Code Council is 336 00:19:09,756 --> 00:19:11,916 Speaker 1: one of those shadowy groups that no one has ever 337 00:19:11,956 --> 00:19:14,916 Speaker 1: heard about that writes the rules of the modern world, 338 00:19:15,516 --> 00:19:18,436 Speaker 1: and the document that they have so grandiosely named, the 339 00:19:18,476 --> 00:19:24,196 Speaker 1: International Building Code is crucially not set in stone. Interested 340 00:19:24,236 --> 00:19:27,756 Speaker 1: parties can propose amendments. Those amendments can be voted on 341 00:19:27,796 --> 00:19:30,356 Speaker 1: by a special Committee or by the general members of 342 00:19:30,396 --> 00:19:34,116 Speaker 1: the ICC. The International Building Code is not like the 343 00:19:34,116 --> 00:19:37,796 Speaker 1: Constitution of the United States, which was last amended in 344 00:19:37,876 --> 00:19:41,156 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two, based on a proposal first made in 345 00:19:41,196 --> 00:19:44,636 Speaker 1: seventeen eighty nine. You need a war or a couple 346 00:19:44,636 --> 00:19:48,556 Speaker 1: of centuries to change the US Constitution. Not so the 347 00:19:48,596 --> 00:19:52,796 Speaker 1: International Building Code. It is a living document. And one 348 00:19:52,876 --> 00:19:55,476 Speaker 1: of those people who set out to take advantage of 349 00:19:55,516 --> 00:19:59,756 Speaker 1: this fact was Gregory a Victor of the Glendale Fire Department. 350 00:20:00,836 --> 00:20:05,196 Speaker 1: Greg Victor had white blonde hair, a stash aviator glasses. 351 00:20:05,556 --> 00:20:08,036 Speaker 1: He grew up in the Phoenix area, served in the 352 00:20:08,076 --> 00:20:11,156 Speaker 1: Air Force, as an elect trician at Binhoa Air Force 353 00:20:11,196 --> 00:20:14,476 Speaker 1: Base during the Vietnam War, came home and became a 354 00:20:14,516 --> 00:20:18,596 Speaker 1: fire inspector for the Glendale, Arizona Fire Department, retiring as 355 00:20:18,596 --> 00:20:22,596 Speaker 1: the city's fire marshal in two thousand and seven. Quote. 356 00:20:22,916 --> 00:20:26,236 Speaker 1: He was the driving force behind the fire safety codes 357 00:20:26,476 --> 00:20:30,436 Speaker 1: that are used in Glendale today. His obituary reads on 358 00:20:30,516 --> 00:20:33,996 Speaker 1: a national level, he was instrumental in passing fire code 359 00:20:34,156 --> 00:20:38,556 Speaker 1: to assure firefighters safety in Skyscraper's after nine to eleven. 360 00:20:39,316 --> 00:20:42,316 Speaker 1: Let me just say that we of the Ymbie movement 361 00:20:42,636 --> 00:20:46,396 Speaker 1: have no beef with Greig Victor personally. He served his country, 362 00:20:46,676 --> 00:20:50,596 Speaker 1: his community, his profession. I am quite sure he was 363 00:20:50,636 --> 00:20:55,076 Speaker 1: a fine and upstanding man. But he wanted perfection and 364 00:20:55,116 --> 00:20:58,996 Speaker 1: he didn't understand that perfection comes with what is sometimes 365 00:20:59,236 --> 00:21:06,236 Speaker 1: an unbearable cost. So this guy lit's just so we 366 00:21:06,316 --> 00:21:12,076 Speaker 1: have a someone who cares, who is passionate about elevators. 367 00:21:12,716 --> 00:21:16,676 Speaker 2: Yeah, he proposes. He says, you know, at the time, 368 00:21:17,396 --> 00:21:21,356 Speaker 2: elevators were made to accommodate stretchers that are six feet 369 00:21:21,596 --> 00:21:26,116 Speaker 2: four inches long. And he says, well, they're building a 370 00:21:26,156 --> 00:21:27,316 Speaker 2: stadium in my jurisdiction. 371 00:21:27,396 --> 00:21:30,116 Speaker 1: He files an amendment with the International Building Code. 372 00:21:31,156 --> 00:21:36,356 Speaker 2: At the time, I don't believe Glendale had any apartment 373 00:21:36,356 --> 00:21:38,596 Speaker 2: buildings with elevators. Maybe it had one or two, It 374 00:21:38,636 --> 00:21:40,716 Speaker 2: had very few, if any. It still has very few, 375 00:21:40,716 --> 00:21:43,236 Speaker 2: if any. And he said, the elevator is not going 376 00:21:43,276 --> 00:21:47,556 Speaker 2: to accommodate our strutchers. And I don't think. I mean, 377 00:21:47,716 --> 00:21:50,676 Speaker 2: I think that's maybe true in some sense, like when 378 00:21:50,716 --> 00:21:54,436 Speaker 2: it's fully flat and extended. I find it difficult to 379 00:21:54,596 --> 00:21:57,076 Speaker 2: believe that it did not accomodate a structure in any sense. 380 00:21:57,076 --> 00:21:59,036 Speaker 2: I mean, strutchers do sort of prop up a bit. 381 00:21:59,476 --> 00:22:01,676 Speaker 2: Sometimes they're a bit collapsible, But in any case, he 382 00:22:01,716 --> 00:22:05,236 Speaker 2: did not feel it adequately accommodated the stretcher. So he said, 383 00:22:06,196 --> 00:22:07,956 Speaker 2: you know, the code should just say that the elevator 384 00:22:07,996 --> 00:22:12,516 Speaker 2: must accommodate whatever structs. Sure, the jurisdiction's got. And this 385 00:22:12,636 --> 00:22:15,036 Speaker 2: is not in the report. And I want to say, 386 00:22:15,076 --> 00:22:17,396 Speaker 2: don't quote me, but I'm saying it in a public form, 387 00:22:17,516 --> 00:22:19,476 Speaker 2: so whatever, I'll just say it. What I was told 388 00:22:19,596 --> 00:22:22,916 Speaker 2: was at the time, the elevator industry, this was in 389 00:22:22,996 --> 00:22:27,156 Speaker 2: the early two thousands, the elevator industry had their own event, 390 00:22:27,316 --> 00:22:28,756 Speaker 2: and so there weren't a lot of people from the 391 00:22:28,796 --> 00:22:33,516 Speaker 2: elevator industry to push back. So there was some committee, 392 00:22:33,556 --> 00:22:36,516 Speaker 2: some technical committee that's supposed to review this proposal. That's 393 00:22:36,556 --> 00:22:38,876 Speaker 2: I think the most informed people in the process generally, 394 00:22:39,276 --> 00:22:41,796 Speaker 2: and they said, well, there's two things wrong with us. 395 00:22:41,876 --> 00:22:44,196 Speaker 2: Number One, we can't just say it's got to accommodate 396 00:22:44,196 --> 00:22:46,396 Speaker 2: the biggest stretcher you've got. I mean they say this, 397 00:22:46,436 --> 00:22:48,796 Speaker 2: but you know what if someone orders a twenty foot stretcher. 398 00:22:48,836 --> 00:22:51,556 Speaker 2: I mean, the lack of standardization just can drive everyone crazy. 399 00:22:51,836 --> 00:22:56,276 Speaker 2: But secondly, you didn't really prove anything exactly, like, you know, 400 00:22:56,396 --> 00:23:00,116 Speaker 2: what is the harm? You know, can you try away 401 00:23:00,156 --> 00:23:03,036 Speaker 2: the cost and benefits that wasn't done, So it comes 402 00:23:03,076 --> 00:23:06,316 Speaker 2: back in another round when it's a little more This 403 00:23:06,316 --> 00:23:08,196 Speaker 2: this is sort of a quasi democratic body, so all 404 00:23:08,196 --> 00:23:10,636 Speaker 2: the building officials can vote and he's okay, Well the 405 00:23:10,636 --> 00:23:13,316 Speaker 2: technical committee said no, but I come to you, the 406 00:23:13,396 --> 00:23:18,196 Speaker 2: membership and say, you know, all fix it. So okay, 407 00:23:18,196 --> 00:23:19,876 Speaker 2: it's not going to be any size. It's just gonna 408 00:23:19,876 --> 00:23:21,596 Speaker 2: be seven feet. I mean ours are I think he 409 00:23:21,636 --> 00:23:24,956 Speaker 2: said there's or I don't remember, six foot seven, six 410 00:23:24,956 --> 00:23:26,796 Speaker 2: foot eight, you know, seven feet will be big enough 411 00:23:26,796 --> 00:23:28,156 Speaker 2: to I don't know, have an oxygen tank on the 412 00:23:28,236 --> 00:23:31,196 Speaker 2: end or something like that, and it passed. 413 00:23:32,396 --> 00:23:36,036 Speaker 1: The United States already had the biggest elevators in the world, 414 00:23:36,316 --> 00:23:40,116 Speaker 1: the most expensive elevators in the world. Elevators so big 415 00:23:40,396 --> 00:23:43,556 Speaker 1: and so expensive that whenever someone was putting up a 416 00:23:43,596 --> 00:23:47,276 Speaker 1: small apartment building or an affordable apartment building, they look 417 00:23:47,316 --> 00:23:50,236 Speaker 1: at the numbers and shrug and say, ef it, we'll 418 00:23:50,236 --> 00:23:55,516 Speaker 1: just go with stairs. And along comes Greg Victor of Glendale, Arizona, 419 00:23:55,996 --> 00:23:58,876 Speaker 1: and proposes, to the most powerful body in the whole 420 00:23:58,876 --> 00:24:02,996 Speaker 1: world of building codes, let's make them even bigger and 421 00:24:03,116 --> 00:24:07,036 Speaker 1: even more expensive. Let's make them seven feet long. So 422 00:24:07,076 --> 00:24:10,596 Speaker 1: he comes back and with an amendment saying, okay, just 423 00:24:10,596 --> 00:24:16,356 Speaker 1: make it seven feet and he takes that to the the. 424 00:24:15,876 --> 00:24:18,276 Speaker 2: Sort of the broader membership, but he kind of makes this, 425 00:24:18,396 --> 00:24:20,996 Speaker 2: he makes this emotional case. Imagine if it was you. 426 00:24:21,436 --> 00:24:25,436 Speaker 2: And there's always an emotional appeal in building codes and standards. 427 00:24:25,516 --> 00:24:27,676 Speaker 2: I mean, sometimes it's about fire. In this case, it 428 00:24:27,716 --> 00:24:30,476 Speaker 2: wasn't fire. In this case, it was you know, being 429 00:24:31,436 --> 00:24:34,436 Speaker 2: you know, having going into cardiac arrest and someone couldn't 430 00:24:34,996 --> 00:24:37,516 Speaker 2: thumb compressions on you or you get some sort of 431 00:24:37,596 --> 00:24:41,116 Speaker 2: musculo skeletal injury from falling in the bathtub. Whatever you know, 432 00:24:41,156 --> 00:24:44,196 Speaker 2: something could happen. So it's an emotional appeal. And the 433 00:24:44,236 --> 00:24:47,516 Speaker 2: issue with emotional appeals is they don't weigh things very well. 434 00:24:48,916 --> 00:24:52,756 Speaker 1: You couldn't look it up. International Building Code Code Change 435 00:24:52,836 --> 00:24:56,716 Speaker 1: number G one forty three three h four Section three 436 00:24:56,756 --> 00:25:01,676 Speaker 1: thousand and two point four. The International Building Code Amendment 437 00:25:01,756 --> 00:25:05,716 Speaker 1: form is divided into three parts. Part one is where 438 00:25:05,716 --> 00:25:09,836 Speaker 1: you write a paragraph explaining your change. Part two is 439 00:25:09,876 --> 00:25:13,316 Speaker 1: where you give you reasons, and part three is cost 440 00:25:13,356 --> 00:25:16,756 Speaker 1: impact and do you know what? Greg Victor answers to 441 00:25:16,836 --> 00:25:24,756 Speaker 1: the cost impact question? None n O n e oh 442 00:25:24,836 --> 00:25:39,516 Speaker 1: Greg No. Revisious History is produced by Nina Bird Lawrence, 443 00:25:39,636 --> 00:25:44,076 Speaker 1: Lucy Sullivan, and Ben ADAPFH Haffrey. Our editor is Karen Schakerji. 444 00:25:44,436 --> 00:25:49,116 Speaker 1: Fact checking by Angelie Mercado. Our executive producer Jacob Smith. 445 00:25:49,556 --> 00:25:53,036 Speaker 1: Engineering by Nina Bird Lawrence, original music by Luis Kira, 446 00:25:53,676 --> 00:25:58,156 Speaker 1: Sound design and mastering by Marcelo diela Vera. I'm Malcolm Gladwell.