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Speaker 1: Happy Monday, and welcome to another episode of the Chuck Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I am going on advil and caffeine. Those of you

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Speaker 1: that are in the sort of I guess the eastern

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Speaker 1: half of the country slash southeastern half. Right, it's sort

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Speaker 1: of about a third of the country under this massive

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Speaker 1: winter weather storm. So I've got some good old fashioned

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Speaker 1: back pain. I'm looking forward to. Good thing. I got

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Speaker 1: going to hit the back doctor at some point this week.

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Speaker 1: Good time for it right good time. It's nothing like

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Speaker 1: doing all that snow shoveling here in Washington. What does

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Speaker 1: that mean? Well, look, there's obviously a ton going on.

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Speaker 1: I did something I rarely do, did a quick for

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Speaker 1: those of you that do subscribe to the YouTube channel,

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Speaker 1: and if you don't, please do, because when we do

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Speaker 1: breaking news updates, we're more likely to do them on

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Speaker 1: the YouTube channel before it makes it onto the audio channel.

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Speaker 1: I am definitely more prolonged form, as many of you know,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes moments call for some important reaction and sort

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Speaker 1: of trying to I went up with a video sort

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Speaker 1: of when we knew a lot, but when we didn't

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Speaker 1: know anything everything and the important questions that needed to

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Speaker 1: be asked of the government in there in the ways

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Speaker 1: they were trying to explain what happened in the death

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Speaker 1: of Alex Pretty in Minneapolis. Which is obviously going to

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Speaker 1: take up a line and share this monologue, but let

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Speaker 1: me go through a bit of my table of contents

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Speaker 1: for this episode. It's going to be more than Minneapolis

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Speaker 1: that I'm focused on. I think this has been a

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Speaker 1: month that I'm calling it the Great Unraveling, and I'm

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Speaker 1: going to get to that in a minute, because we're

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Speaker 1: we've I know we've had many moments similar to this

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Speaker 1: in the Trump era, But when you really take the

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Speaker 1: totality of the last thirty days and everything that has

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Speaker 1: happened internationally domestically, we are at a tipping point. And

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Speaker 1: I don't think, as many of you know, I'm no alarmist.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I'm always looking to not sound in a law,

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Speaker 1: to look for ways to not issue issue a sky

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Speaker 1: is falling type proclamation. There are many people that have

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Speaker 1: been preaching sky is falling for years now. Maybe some

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Speaker 1: of them are saying I told you so, but I

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Speaker 1: still don't believe in when you pull the fire alarm,

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Speaker 1: you've got to be very very proverballyal That is very

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Speaker 1: very judicious. But we're at a moment and I think

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Speaker 1: anybody who doesn't see this doesn't want to see this.

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Speaker 1: That's about the only way I can put it. So

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Speaker 1: we'll get to that. My guest today is a gentleman

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Speaker 1: by the name of Adam Baalolo. He is a documentary filmmaker.

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Speaker 1: He has done quite a few. He did one that

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Speaker 1: some of you may have seen about, called Telemarketers. Well,

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Speaker 1: it got him an opportunity to do. Essentially, who is

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Speaker 1: Sam Altman? Was essentially the goal of his documentary. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's just say Sam Altman never wanted to sit down

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Speaker 1: for an interview, so it turned into what the film

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Speaker 1: is called deep Faking Sam Altman. So look, the film

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Speaker 1: itself is fascinating. It is it has an homage to

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Speaker 1: Roger and me. For those of you that are fans

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Speaker 1: of the Michael Moore genre, you can feel it in

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Speaker 1: this sort of his quest about the third of them

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Speaker 1: of the documentary is his quest to try to secure

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Speaker 1: us sit down with Sam Altman. But the larger conversation

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Speaker 1: we have and the larger point he attempts to make

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Speaker 1: with the film is sort of where is this going,

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Speaker 1: Who's in charge, what's the motivation? Where is this headed?

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Speaker 1: Can you can you trust the same tech companies that

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Speaker 1: gave us social media without regulation to give us artificial

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Speaker 1: intelligence without regulation? And what does that look like? So

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Speaker 1: that's our conversation my podcast time Machine. It is Monday,

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Speaker 1: So you know I'm going to go into the time machine.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to give you two words, bloody Sunday.

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Speaker 1: That's all I'm going to give you. Because it may

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Speaker 1: invoke a few images in your head, and that's exactly

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Speaker 1: what I hope it does. We will get to that,

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Speaker 1: and of course I will take some questions, but we're

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Speaker 1: going to begin We're going to begin with What I

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Speaker 1: want to do is take a step back. This has

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Speaker 1: been a horrendous month in the history of the Republic. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: we've had worse months. The country that has had its

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Speaker 1: own civil war has had worse months. More people have died.

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Speaker 1: There's no not equating that this month is worse in history.

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Speaker 1: But this is the single worst month. And it's funny

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Speaker 1: about what January seems to bring right January. We thought

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Speaker 1: January twenty twenty one was the low point. Is it

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Speaker 1: possible that January twenty twenty six is a brand new

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Speaker 1: low point than even what we dealt with in and

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Speaker 1: around January sixth. Historians like to say that history moves

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Speaker 1: in decades where nothing happens, and then there are weeks

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Speaker 1: where decades happen. And in some ways, January twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: six hasn't just been a month. It's been a rupture.

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Speaker 1: We began this year with one of the most audacious

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Speaker 1: uses of American hard power in memory, the extraction of

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Speaker 1: Nicholas Maduro from Venezuela presented as a bold reclaiming of

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Speaker 1: US influence in the Western hemisphere. But if that was

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Speaker 1: a sledgehammer meant to uphold order, what we're watching now

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Speaker 1: is the collapse of consent. That order, once rested on

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Speaker 1: the illusion of stability, legal, geopolitical, scientific is unraveling before

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Speaker 1: our eyes, and all of it is happening in real time.

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Speaker 1: This is not a time to avert your eyes. We're

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Speaker 1: going to start in Minneapolis this month because federal agents

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Speaker 1: being deployed as part of a massive immigration enforcement surge

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Speaker 1: have now been involved in two fatal shootings in less

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Speaker 1: than three weeks. On January twenty fourth, border patrol agents

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Speaker 1: shot and killed Alex Pretty, thirty seven year old I

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Speaker 1: See You nurse and a lawful gun owner, during an

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Speaker 1: immigration operation in South Minneapolis. Federal officials initially said Pretty

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Speaker 1: was armed and approached agents aggressively, claims that are now

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Speaker 1: challenged by multiple videos showing him holding a phone and

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Speaker 1: trying to help another protester before being tackled, attacked with

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Speaker 1: pepper spray, beaten, and then shot ten times after he

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Speaker 1: had been subdued, ten times after he had been subdued

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Speaker 1: This was an assassination. There's no other way to this

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Speaker 1: was intentional, may not have been premeditated, but these were

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Speaker 1: trigger happy officers. They assassinated an American citizen. There's no

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Speaker 1: other way to look at it. And they felt comfortable

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Speaker 1: doing it because nothing happened to any ICE agent after

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Speaker 1: the killing of Renee Good under questionable circumstances, and that

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Speaker 1: decision by the federal government to not uphold the law,

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Speaker 1: to not instigate an investigation sent two messages. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to paraphrase my friend Robert George, longtime conservative columnists and thinker.

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Speaker 1: I first got to know him when he was a

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Speaker 1: columnist at the New York Post. And as he said,

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Speaker 1: the decision not to do that sent two terrible messages

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Speaker 1: that made a moment like this, the murder of Alex

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Speaker 1: Pretty by federal agents inevitable. Not opening an investigation, ICE

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Speaker 1: agents were told, you have nothing to worry about. That's

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Speaker 1: the message that was sent after Renee Good. And the

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Speaker 1: second message that was sent to residents of Minneapolis is

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Speaker 1: the federal government is not going to uphold the law

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Speaker 1: or your constitutional rights. You're going to have to you

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Speaker 1: might have to take matters into your own hands. So

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Speaker 1: the decision by our federal government to not uphold the

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Speaker 1: Constitution and the amount of constitutional rights violated on this man,

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Speaker 1: Alex Pretty, let alone Renee Good, is astonishing. It's fascinating.

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Speaker 1: And you know, some of my friends on the right

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Speaker 1: are laughing at those on the left defending Alex Pretty's

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Speaker 1: Second Amendment rights. But that's the thing with the Constitution.

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Speaker 1: You don't pick and choose. It's all there. And so

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Speaker 1: conservatives that are going out there, or people like Todd

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Speaker 1: Blanche or Scott Bess boy to Scott bessont, you know,

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Speaker 1: we know what he's up to, right, Scott Besson is

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Speaker 1: so desperate for the president listening to him the economy

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Speaker 1: that he defends all this other bullshit in order to

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Speaker 1: stay in Trump's good graces. And so, but he really

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Speaker 1: embarrasses himself. He knows so little about the law or

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Speaker 1: the Constitution, and so when he goes out there, he'd

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Speaker 1: be better off just saying that's not my lane, because

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Speaker 1: he makes an absolute fool of himself. And now he

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Speaker 1: wants to start a separist you know, he starts behaving

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Speaker 1: like some sort of Russian propagandist with this Alberta secession

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Speaker 1: movement he's manufacturing. But my goodness, I mean, I'm thankful

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Speaker 1: that Bessont is a rational actor when it comes to

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Speaker 1: the economy, the Fed tariffs. But good god, sir, don't

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Speaker 1: make a fool of yourself, because you really are making

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Speaker 1: a fool of yourself. But as I was trying to

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Speaker 1: warn you in the initial aftermath, specific questions had to

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Speaker 1: be asked of DHS because they immediately said he was armed. Well,

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Speaker 1: and I said, Minnesota is an open carry state, they

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Speaker 1: have permits. Be careful here, let's make let's find out

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Speaker 1: what his legal status was as a gun owner. Well,

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Speaker 1: it turns out he had all the proper paperwork to

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Speaker 1: carry that weapon with him. And it's amusing to me

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Speaker 1: to watch Donald Trump complain and others in his administration.

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Speaker 1: They said, who brings a gun to a protest? Have

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Speaker 1: you taken a look at the footage of January six

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Speaker 1: So let me put the question right back to them.

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Speaker 1: Who carries a gun to a protest on January sixth?

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Speaker 1: It's quite a few people that carried guns to that protest,

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Speaker 1: quite a few. And I thought the idea of the

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Speaker 1: Constitution was that it's you know, it's there to serve

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Speaker 1: those you like and those you don't like. The Second

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Speaker 1: Amendment isn't just for the right wing and fear and

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Speaker 1: this was always a point that my Second Amendment conservative

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Speaker 1: friends were made in the past. You don't know when

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Speaker 1: your government's going to turn on you. Well, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of progressives in Minneapolis finding out what happens when

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Speaker 1: the government turns on them, because that's what this looks like.

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Speaker 1: A government that's decided that the politics of communities they

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Speaker 1: don't agree with deserve to have their constitutional rights stripped

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Speaker 1: away from them. That's not America. That's fascism. I don't

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Speaker 1: like throwing around the F word very often any of

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Speaker 1: the efforts because it's one of those things you can't

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Speaker 1: unerring it. I view it like rape. You accuse somebody

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Speaker 1: of being a fascist, you've accused him of being a Nazi.

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Speaker 1: There's no going back, there's nothing else you can go to.

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Speaker 1: But they're behaving like them, and I don't know what

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Speaker 1: American wants to emulate them. Put it this way, if

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Speaker 1: you're a human being that wants to emulate that, you're

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Speaker 1: not an American trying to claim you're an American. Because

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Speaker 1: an American believes in liberty and believes in freedom. So

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Speaker 1: here we are. We're not in a hypothetical debate about

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Speaker 1: use of force. This is citizens versus their own governments agents.

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Speaker 1: And it raises the elementary political question when the federal

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Speaker 1: state treats the lawful exercise of rights as a pretext

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Speaker 1: for lethal force, which is what DHS is claiming here.

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Speaker 1: What remains of our social contract? And that's the question

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Speaker 1: pressing itself on the streets of Minneapolis right now, and

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Speaker 1: it's the conscience of the republic. This unraveling, though, moves

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Speaker 1: beyond Minneapolis. And I'm not steppy. That isn't all I

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Speaker 1: have to say about Minneapolis, but I kind of want

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Speaker 1: to get at this theme of this January unraveling of

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Speaker 1: America before our eyes and Donald Trump's leadership that is

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Speaker 1: destroying everything that we thought we knew about our country.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the global fracture. Candidate Davos on the

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Speaker 1: global stage press No moment better signifies the erosion of

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Speaker 1: the post World War tool rules based order than what

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Speaker 1: folded at Davos last week. As I've mentioned earlier on

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Speaker 1: on earlier episodes, at the World Economic Forum, the Canadian

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister Mark Carney delivered a blistering address, declaring that

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Speaker 1: the old rules based international order, centered on predictable alliance,

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Speaker 1: collective norms and US leadership, has fractured. In transition, Carney

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Speaker 1: didn't just disagree with US direction. He openly said that

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Speaker 1: the Middle Powers must build new frameworks of cooperation because

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Speaker 1: the old one no longer protects. Then it's seismic. This

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Speaker 1: is our closest ally for over a century. He's publicly

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Speaker 1: reframing global geopolitics and urging peers to hedge against the

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Speaker 1: unpredictability of great power behavior, particularly the United States. He

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Speaker 1: has to live right next door to the United States,

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Speaker 1: and the diplomatic repercussions have been immediate. President Trump rescinded

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Speaker 1: Canada's invitation to join his so called Board of Peace.

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Speaker 1: He simultaneously is threatening one hundred percent tariffs on Canadian

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Speaker 1: products after Ottawa made moves on trade with China. The

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Speaker 1: irony theres Donald Trump's response to Canada is to tax

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Speaker 1: you in me. He wants to punish Canaday punished by

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Speaker 1: punishing Americans with higher taxes. The rules based order isn't

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Speaker 1: just praying, it's visibly splintering before a global audience. Here

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Speaker 1: at home. The unraveling isn't limited to force as we've

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Speaker 1: seen on the streets of Minneapolis, or geopolitics as we

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Speaker 1: saw at Davos. It's also just in our basic institutions.

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Speaker 1: On the digital front, a highly politicized deal to restructure TikTok,

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Speaker 1: which has sort of been buried under the obvious headlines,

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Speaker 1: a platform used by nearly one hundred and fifty million

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Speaker 1: Americans was negotiated in ways that appear defined less by

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Speaker 1: national security imperatives and more by who the investors were

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Speaker 1: politically aligned with. The algorithm remains under byte Dance control,

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Speaker 1: which means it's under control of the Chinese Communist Party,

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Speaker 1: so I don't know what we've accomplished there, and the

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Speaker 1: negotiating entity retained significant ownership, so I don't know how

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Speaker 1: this still doesn't violate federal law. Remember they passed a

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Speaker 1: law about TikTok, so this looks less like securing data

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Speaker 1: from foreign influence and more like media alignment because of

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Speaker 1: who the American buyers are and who will control this algorithm.

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Speaker 1: And then there's in public health, an arena that for

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Speaker 1: generations was an intellectual and moral high ground, less immune

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Speaker 1: from politics and just about every other institution that we have,

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Speaker 1: and we're witnessing something remarkable, scientific consensus being openly debated,

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Speaker 1: as if there were just another opinion. A senior voice

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Speaker 1: from the CDC's advisory pair has publicly questioned whether the

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Speaker 1: polio vaccine should be mandatory at a time when measles

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Speaker 1: cases are spiking in more than a dozen states, numbers

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Speaker 1: that we haven't seen in decades. Make America measles again.

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Speaker 1: It's not a data glitch. This is institutional hesitancy in

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Speaker 1: the face of a resurgence. If foundational public health successes

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Speaker 1: are subject to doubt, then what is it. This is

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Speaker 1: the ultimate gas lighting of American It's going to kill Americans,

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Speaker 1: just kill them. And now we're four days away from

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Speaker 1: a government shutdown, and believe you me, this government is

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Speaker 1: shutting down. There is zero trust among Democrats with any

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Speaker 1: of the Trump administration right now. There is no eight

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Speaker 1: or nine moderate Democrats ready to play ball. Not after

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Speaker 1: the murder of two American citizens in Minneapolis, feel pretty

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Speaker 1: comfortable doing this. President's approval ratings are at historic lows

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Speaker 1: for him, and we're just in this. You know, he's

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Speaker 1: literally stumbling us into a potential war if we're not

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Speaker 1: careful screwing up the NATO alliance making America let's secure.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know how you can you can. The

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Speaker 1: only power democrats have is the power of the person

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Speaker 1: and what remains of the legislative branch. So I don't

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Speaker 1: know how they can be a credible opposition party if

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Speaker 1: they acquiesce at this point. So we're going to get

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Speaker 1: a government shut down. This episode of the Chuck Podcast

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Speaker 1: slash chuck. So the bottom line is this month feels

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Speaker 1: different because it is different. It's the sound of one

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Speaker 1: hundred years of consensus, diplomatic, legal, and scientific hitting the

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Speaker 1: floor and shattering, just shattering. So let's go back to Minnesota.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to walk through everything that happened because the

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Speaker 1: details matter here so much. So it's the second time

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Speaker 1: in a single month that a civilian has been killed

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Speaker 1: by federal agents in Minneapolis during immigration enforcement operations. Two deaths. Two.

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Speaker 1: We're not sure we're ever going to be a real investigations,

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Speaker 1: but we need him and a growing sense among state

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Speaker 1: local officials that they have to be spectators and events

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Speaker 1: unfolding in their own communities. This is not a policing

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Speaker 1: question anymore. This is a constitutional one. Alex Pretty was

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Speaker 1: a thirty seven year old ice you nurse. He worked

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Speaker 1: with veterans, He lived in Minnesota. He legally owned a

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Speaker 1: firearm and under Minnesota law, had the right to carry it.

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Speaker 1: And given the fact that American citizens in Minneapolis had

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Speaker 1: been gunned down by ice, how should he had have

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Speaker 1: been irresponsible not to protect himself. Federal officials say he

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Speaker 1: was armed a fact. Did he brandish his weapon? They

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Speaker 1: have no evidence of it, and there's no video showing

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Speaker 1: that he did. They claimed that he posed a threat

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Speaker 1: during a confrontation with border patrol agents. But in Minnesota,

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Speaker 1: being armed is not the crime. It's simply a status,

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Speaker 1: one regulated by permits in training, not suspicion. It's already

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Speaker 1: a violin of his Second Amendment rights. And then here's

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Speaker 1: where the legal line matters. There is a vast legal

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Speaker 1: canyon between being armed and brandishing. One is lawful, the

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Speaker 1: other is a crime. And unless that canyon is crossed

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Speaker 1: clearly and demonstrably, the use of lethal force isn't just questionable,

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Speaker 1: it's indefensible. And remember, this man was shot ten times

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Speaker 1: after he was subdued. They killed him in cold blood. God,

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Speaker 1: I can't believe the lack of empathy by our elected officials.

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Speaker 1: This shouldn't have happened. I mean, you can't even perfect.

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Speaker 1: These folks in charge, can't even lament this man's death.

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Speaker 1: The videos tell everything, and boy, thank goodness their citizen

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Speaker 1: video here, Because you can't trust your government right now.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe him saying those words. Many of you

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Speaker 1: know me, that know me a long time. No, I'm

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Speaker 1: an institutionalist. Ultimately, I do think most bureaucrats are trying

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Speaker 1: to do the right thing. They sometimes are misled, but

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Speaker 1: they try to do the right thing. So I mostly

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Speaker 1: believe in our institutions they want to do the right thing.

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Speaker 1: But leadership of these institutions can pervert things. And right

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Speaker 1: now we're in a perverted state of mind because multiple

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Speaker 1: bystandard videos up here to show Preddie just simply holding

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Speaker 1: a phone, not a weapon, as you tried to intervene

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Speaker 1: and record what was happening. Again, a first Amendment right,

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Speaker 1: Whether that ultimately holds up under investigation is precisely the point,

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Speaker 1: because right now Minnesota officials haven't even been fully inside

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Speaker 1: that investigation. Anybody not calling for a thorough and independent

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Speaker 1: investigation does not want to know the results of said investigation.

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Speaker 1: And anybody that thinks DHS or the FBI can be

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Speaker 1: trusted with this investigation needs to get their head examined,

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Speaker 1: because Cash, Battel and Christy Nome have zero credibility outside

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Speaker 1: of the thirty to thirty five percent of the country

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Speaker 1: that wants this behavior and is perfectly happy with this

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Speaker 1: kind of behavior, or a free country. People can want

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Speaker 1: this all they want. I'm sorry, thirty five percent of

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Speaker 1: our country sees the constitutional as constitution is sort of

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Speaker 1: just an advice column So here's why the changes the story.

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Speaker 1: Local police chiefs, the governor's state investigators. They're being locked

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Speaker 1: out of real time access to evidence in the achilling

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Speaker 1: of their own citizens twice. If the federal government reserves

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Speaker 1: the right to deploy agents in two states use lethal force,

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Speaker 1: and then control the investigative process entirely, the consent that

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Speaker 1: underpins federalism collapses completely. This is a total and complete

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Speaker 1: violation of the tenth Amendment. It's amazing one killing how

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Speaker 1: many different I mean, there's a reason are the first

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Speaker 1: ten amendments are called the Bill of Rights, and these

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Speaker 1: federal agents violated half of them in that one incident

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Speaker 1: in less than thirty seconds. So you don't need to

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Speaker 1: decide whether the agents acted lawfully to understand this problem.

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Speaker 1: If they did act lawfully, transparency would only strengthen the case.

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Speaker 1: If they didn't, secrecy will compound the damage I'm reporting.

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Speaker 1: I'll let you decide. Now here's the question you guys

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Speaker 1: should set with. If lawful behavior can be retroactively reframed

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Speaker 1: as threatening, and if local, small d democratic institutions have

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Speaker 1: no meaningful role in accountability, then rights only exist on paper,

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Speaker 1: not in practice, and once citizens believe that the social

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Speaker 1: contract doesn't break all it once, it erodes quietly locally

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Speaker 1: until trust is completely gone. Soda isn't an outliner, it's

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Speaker 1: a warning flare. Now let's widen the lens, because what's

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Speaker 1: happening domestically is being mirrored globally. Last week at Davos,

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Speaker 1: something happened that would have been almost unthinkable a decade ago.

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Speaker 1: The Prime Minister of Canada publicly questioned the viability of

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Speaker 1: American leadership, not as a rival, but as an ally.

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Speaker 1: And when allies stop speaking in euphemisms, it means something

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Speaker 1: is fundamentally shifted. To Mark Carney's credit, he didn't rant.

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Speaker 1: You might say I'm ranting a little bit, but he

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Speaker 1: didn't posture. He did something far more consequential. He's simply

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Speaker 1: reframed the global order. He is reacting to the reality

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Speaker 1: on the ground, not some sort of nostalgic belief in

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Speaker 1: the past. He called the so called rules based international

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Speaker 1: system of fiction, not because rules don't matter, but because

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Speaker 1: the system enforcing them no longer behaves predictably. System, in

427
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: this case is doing a lot of work that Donald

428
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: Trump led America. He argued that Middle Powers countries like Canada, Australia,

429
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 1: parts of Europe can no longer assume that alignment with

430
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: the United States guarantees stability or protection. Instead, they need

431
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: independent frameworks, redundant alliances, and a lot of hedging strategies.

432
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: It's not anti Americanism at this point. It's simply Mark Carney,

433
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: central banker doing a little risk management. It's Canada, folks.

434
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,719
Speaker 1: This is like our brother or sister deciding the family

435
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: union doesn't work anymore. It's not France or Turkey. This

436
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: isn't a country flirting with autonomy. Canada has been the

437
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: most reliable partner in the American system for a century, economically, militarily, culturally.

438
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: When Canada stops organizing its foreign policy around Washington, that's

439
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: not smolic, it's tectonic. This is an earthquip, folks, And

440
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: the response from Washington matters just as much. So, instead

441
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: of reassurance, the reaction was sort of irrational retaliation. I

442
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: say irrational because it makes no sense and it also

443
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: violates multiple trade agreements. But rescinded invitations, tariff threats, public

444
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,479
Speaker 1: slights confirms the very concern Carni raised that alliances are

445
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: now transactional, conditional, and personal In some ways, this is

446
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: Donald Trump trying to overturn the American the entire American

447
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: order on how America uses its power. So when allies

448
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: stop performing the rituals of deference, they're not rebelling, They're

449
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: simply adapting. And that's what Canada's doing. This post war

450
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: order wasn't held together by dominance alone. It was held

451
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: together by trust. It was held together by restraint, predictability,

452
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: and shared rules and mutual respect, not transactional respect. Once

453
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: that trust goes, power doesn't disappear, but it does fragment,

454
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: and fragmentation is the defining condition of the world we're entering.

455
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: A fragmented world is a more dangerous one, and Donald

456
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: Trump has made the world more dangerous. This unraveling that

457
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: I'm focused on today, that we're talking about, isn't just

458
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: about force or alliances. It's also about authority who we

459
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: trust to tell us what's real, what's safe, and what matters.

460
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,479
Speaker 1: And nowhere has that been more obvious right now than

461
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: in public health and in media. Ken All of this

462
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: has been happening in the month of January. So let's

463
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: start with the CDC and the start of this year.

464
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: We are having serious discussions inside elite public health circles

465
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: about whether the polio vaccine should be mandatory. What we

466
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: don't like that we nearly eradicated polio, so let's bring

467
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: it back. Is that what make America great again means

468
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: there's no science has changed on polio, mind you, just

469
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: the politics around trust have changed. At the same time,

470
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: measles cases are climbing across more than a dozen states.

471
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: Diseases we had effectively contained are resurfacing, not because we

472
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: lack tools, but because institutions are hesitating to defend their

473
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: own successes. Actually it's not even and it's hesitating to

474
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,479
Speaker 1: defend successes. You now have people in charge of public

475
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: health that are at war with those successes. There are

476
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: at war with the troop, Robert F. Kennedy juniors, at

477
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: war with the truth, and he is appointed a bunch

478
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: of people who are making us all more vulnerable to

479
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: diseases that we had nearly eradicated. So when institutions stop

480
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: asserting settled science with confidence, skepticism, of course fills the vacuum.

481
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: And once public health becomes negotiable, the cost is not

482
00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: there radical it's biological. Welcome to Darwinism now, we layer

483
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: in media power. The administration has approved a TikTok restructuring

484
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: that leaves algorithmic control largely intact, keeps a significant bite

485
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: dance steak i e. The Chinese Communist Party influence on

486
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: eighteen to thirty year olds, and shifts operational authority towards

487
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: politically aligned domestic investors, people that just want the algorithm

488
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: to do Donald Trump's bidding. That is not what the

489
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: US Congress was trying to do with TikTok. That is

490
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: not a clean national security firewall. This is simply a

491
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: redistribution of influence. The most powerful content distribution system in

492
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: American life, one that shapes attention, culture, and political discourse,

493
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: particularly for those under the age of thirty five, is

494
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: now beingized reorganized not around independence or liberation, but alignment.

495
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: So when scientific authority weakens and media infrastructures become politically entangled,

496
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: truth loses its referee. And when truth loses its referee,

497
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: disputes aren't settled by evidence, they're settled by power. Suddenly,

498
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: the only amendment that's going to matter a lot might

499
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: be the Second Amendment. For too many people. That's the

500
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: unraveling in its final form, not chaos, but contestation everywhere

501
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: all the time. So I've been calling this the Great Unraveling,

502
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 1: not because everything is collapsing all at once, but because

503
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: the threads that once held things together are slipping quietly

504
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: in plain sight. In Minnesota, it's the idea that force

505
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: can replace consent. In Canada, it's the assumption that American

506
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,959
Speaker 1: leadership is predictable. In our institutions, it's the belief that

507
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: science and truth can stand on their own without being defended.

508
00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: History never announces these turning points. Right street simply leaves

509
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: warning lights, and right now there are a lot of

510
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: warning lights blinking at once. Here's the part that matters most. Though.

511
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: Unraveling isn't destiny. It's a process, and processes don't reverse themselves.

512
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: Every era that thought its order was permanent eventually learned

513
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: it wasn't. The world built after World War Two worked

514
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: not because it was flawless, but because people believed it

515
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: was worth standing up for. Belief was the glue. And

516
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 1: Donald Trump has spent the last ten years questioning the

517
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: belief of American power and superiority over the last seventy years,

518
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 1: and he's unfortunately succeeding, and it's making us all more poorer, weaker,

519
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 1: and more vulnerable, because when belief weakens, responsibility doesn't shift

520
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: to someone else, it shifts to all of us. Doesn't

521
00:34:55,680 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 1: mean we all have to believe the same thing, and

522
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,439
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean everyone has to do the same thing.

523
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: But there is nobody else you can't hope. Oh, maybe

524
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: Senate Republicans, Maybe Mitch McConnell will realize how wrong he

525
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: was about not convicting Donald Trump, the single biggest mistake

526
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: any senator has made in over one hundred years in

527
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:22,439
Speaker 1: this country. Considering the damage we're facing this month. Boy,

528
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: that decision was such a horrible decision. I assume he

529
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 1: loses sleep at night. But the point is, you cannot

530
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: rely on other people to do the right thing. You

531
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: have to do it. For some of you. It just

532
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 1: simply means vote for others. It's protesting. Speaking up matters,

533
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: Flooding your elected representatives with calls to action matters, refusing

534
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: to normalize what feels wrong matters. This is not just

535
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: some period. We're trying to survive, although that is what

536
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: world trying to do here, right, We are trying to survive,

537
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: but we can't lose our country, and we're losing our country.

538
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 1: I don't say it lightly. I don't say it for

539
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: dramatic effect. It's a fact we're losing our country. We

540
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: don't trust each other. FBI comes to my door right now,

541
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: I wouldn't believe a single thing they had to say.

542
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: IRS comes to my door right now. I wouldn't believe

543
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 1: a single thing they had to say. Department of Justice.

544
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: I know I'm not alone. I can't believe I'm saying that.

545
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 1: I never thought that under any other administration. I didn't

546
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: think that under the first Trump administration. But you can't

547
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: trust anything they say about public health. They can't trust

548
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: anything they say out of DHS about transparency and what

549
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: their law enforcement agencies are doing. We can't trust anything

550
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: the president. I mean, I got the President just lies

551
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: just as easily as he breathes in all of his speeches,

552
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: proclamations and are are true. And you cannot believe anything

553
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: out of this government. What doesn't work anymore sitting out

554
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: and assuming someone else is going to fix it. The

555
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: media has got to do something, Republicans got to do something.

556
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 1: Everybody has to do their part, because when enough people

557
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: choose inaction, irresponsible power fills the vacuum, and once that happens,

558
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: rebuilding trust will get even harder. The order we inherit

559
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: it is changing. The question is whether we're willing to

560
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,919
Speaker 1: stand up for what comes next before standing up becomes impossible.

561
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: All Right, I'm gonna sneak in a break and when

562
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: we come back, another brave new world that we're entering

563
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: the world of artificial intelligence. And my conversation with the

564
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: documentarian who's just out with a new documentary which you

565
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: can see right now if you live in the Washington,

566
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: DC area. I believe it's at the Tyson's Corner in

567
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: the Tyson's Corner area. The movie's called Deep Baking, Sam Altman.

568
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: I'll snak at a break. My conversation about that documentary is next.

569
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: Having good life insurance is incredibly important. I know from

570
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 1: personal experience. I was sixteen when my father passed away.

571
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 1: We didn't have any money. He didn't leave us in

572
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,240
Speaker 1: the best shape. My mother, single mother, now widow, myself

573
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: sixteen trying to figure out how am I going to

574
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: pay for college and lo and behold. My dad had

575
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: one life insurance policy that we found wasn't a lot,

576
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: but it was important at the time and It's why

577
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: I was able to go to college. Little did he

578
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: know how important that would be in that moment. Well,

579
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: guess what. That's why I am here to tell you

580
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: about Etho's life. They can provide you with peace of

581
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: mind knowing your family is protected even if the worst

582
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 1: comes to pass. Ethos is an online platform that makes

583
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: getting life insurance fast and easy, all designed to protect

584
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: your family's future in minutes, not months. There's no complicated

585
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: process and it's one h hundred percent online. There's no

586
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: medical exam require you just answer a few health questions online.

587
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: You can get a quote in as little as ten minutes,

588
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: and you can get same day coverage without ever leaving

589
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: your home. You can get up to three million dollars

590
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: in coverage, and some policies start as low as two

591
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 1: dollars a day that would be billed monthly. As of

592
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: March twenty twenty five, Business Insider named Ethos the number

593
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: one no medical exam instant life insurance provider. So protect

594
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 1: your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get your free

595
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: quote at ethos dot com slash chuck. So again, that's

596
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: Ethos dot com slash chuck. Application times may vary and

597
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: the rates themselves may vary as well, but trust me,

598
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: life insurance is something you should really think about it,

599
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: especially if you've got a growing family. Well, many of

600
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 1: you know I have said that I think the twenty

601
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: twenty eight President's going that one of the leading issues

602
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 1: is going to be fear of AI displaced in general

603
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: sort of. I think for the most part, there is

604
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,280
Speaker 1: more of a negative or concern or anxiety about AI

605
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: at this point. We have a variety of reasons for that.

606
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 1: For some people it's just hitting them in the pocket books.

607
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: That's what we're feeling in Northern Virginia. Thanks to these

608
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: AI power data centers, you've got the fear of AI displacement.

609
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,439
Speaker 1: The invention of Sora, I think made social media, which

610
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: was already assessible, somehow a more tox successful. And you

611
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: can't believe now anything you see. So the idea of

612
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: fearing AI is something that is understandable, and we're probably

613
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: collectively all maybe we've all watched one too many dystopian

614
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: sci fi thrillers, But it is in that spirit that

615
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by a new documentary I watched, and the

616
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 1: documentarian is here now, and many of you know I'm

617
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: a huge proponent of documentaries in general. This is a

618
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: feature length documentary. It's called Deep Faking Sam Altman, And

619
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,919
Speaker 1: in some ways it's a it's a diary, and I'm

620
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: we're going to find out whether this was ever the

621
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: original intent or not. But it's a diary of the

622
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: filmmaker Adam Balalaalowe, who's joining me now of his journey

623
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: to try to interview the real Sam Altman of Chat

624
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: of Open AI and Chat GPT fame to just you know,

625
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,399
Speaker 1: I think my guess is Adam wanted to tackle some

626
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: of these concerns and fears and anxieties that so many

627
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: of us have on this and and Sam Altman is,

628
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,919
Speaker 1: let's just say, proved elusive. I think Michael Moore would

629
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: be very proud of this movie. Adam, welcome to the podcast.

630
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 2: Thanks. I appreciate that. And I've been trying to get

631
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 2: Michael Moore's attention, and you know, I still I have

632
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 2: not been able to want to I want him, you know,

633
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 2: obviously if you look at the poster too, it's a

634
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 2: reference to Roger and me and this. Yeah, this very

635
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 2: early on in the process, I realized, like this is

636
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 2: like a weird update on Roger and me in a way.

637
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: Well, and you know it's funny with you know, there's

638
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: this visual I have now of all of these tech titans,

639
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 1: that is that they're all like Zuckerberg with this Hawaii

640
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: Hawaii bunker, right, that they're all preparing realizing that the

641
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 1: pitchforks are coming for them, so they're going to protect themselves.

642
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: So I get it right the same way that I

643
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: think what inspired Michael Moore at the time to go

644
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: find the chairman of General Motors, Hey, you've destroyed my town.

645
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 1: Can I talk about it with you? Will you please

646
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: talk to me? Type of mindset? And and so I

647
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: want to start there because Adam, I don't. I don't

648
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: feel like you entered into this subject matter assuming the

649
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 1: worst about AI. Am I right?

650
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 2: No, you're right. I've been a fan of AI since

651
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 2: I was a little kid, you know, going dating back

652
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 2: to the Terminator two era. I saw that movie when

653
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 2: I was in second grade. It's part of the reason

654
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 2: why I became a filmmaker. It was one of my

655
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 2: favorite films of all time. And I remember early on

656
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 2: going to the mall and going to the arcade and

657
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 2: like those like those early virtual reality headsets you put on.

658
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,439
Speaker 2: They cost like two dollars to like play this rudimentary

659
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 2: virtual reality game. I've always been super interested in technology,

660
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 2: and when chat GPT first came out, I was one

661
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 2: of the first people to start using it. I think

662
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 2: they just found it to be fascinating. So going into this,

663
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:49,479
Speaker 2: I definitely had I wouldn't say a rosy view of AI,

664
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 2: but I had a positive view of AI. And now

665
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 2: I'm just scared to death.

666
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: So I want to start with something here, which is

667
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: why we call it AI. And I wonder if you know,

668
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: I don't think. I try really hard to say it's

669
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: just it's it's just a probability sample, and I try

670
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 1: to tell myself that I'm just this is just a

671
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: probability sample. This is a ninety nine point five percent

672
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,240
Speaker 1: probability that the next word is going to be blah

673
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,959
Speaker 1: right like, and that it's not a real person. That's

674
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: all this is is a probability. Do you think if

675
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 1: we called it, you know, anything other than artificial intelligence, right,

676
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: and if it had just a more benign name or

677
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 1: something that doesn't feel humanish, we would have this this fear.

678
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 2: Probably not. I mean, I think you're right. I think

679
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 2: the idea that that were the the the phrase artificial intelligence,

680
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,240
Speaker 2: I think is is a is A is a great?

681
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 2: It's too perfect words together. It's great branding. Whoever, whoever

682
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 2: came up with.

683
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 1: It, I guess it is. But I you know, let

684
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: me ask you this. Do you like to eat artificial beef,

685
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: artificial chicken, artificial vegetables?

686
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 2: I absolutely don't, but my vegetarian mom does.

687
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: Well, the artificial beef, sure, but not the artificial what

688
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: I eat artificial vegetables?

689
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,439
Speaker 2: Right, No, definitely not artificial vegetables. But yeah, I see,

690
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 2: I see you're getting that. I mean, I mean, no,

691
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 2: it's it's it's weird. I mean in that to that,

692
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: to that extent, you know, maybe maybe it shouldn't be

693
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 2: as popular it is, given the fact that it's like

694
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,280
Speaker 2: artificial intelligence. What does that mean exactly? That just means

695
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 2: like a lesser form of intelligence.

696
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 1: Right, which is why it's interesting to me that we

697
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: we we assume it's superior.

698
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I don't think everybody assumes it's superior.

699
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think I think that's fair. Go back

700
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: to the premise. So you had a successful documentary, which

701
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 1: means that you actually people threw said, hey, we'll throw

702
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: some money at you if you can do this topic.

703
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 1: Was that how this worked going there or was it

704
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: more of you wanted to do AI and you found

705
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:17,760
Speaker 1: interest in the topic.

706
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 2: So it was a little bit of both. I think

707
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 2: that around the time that I started thinking about the documentary,

708
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 2: I was on the picket lines because I'm in the

709
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 2: writer's Guild and I was I was picketing around Netflix.

710
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 2: And part of the reason that we were picketing was

711
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 2: because of AI concerns, right, you know, we were worried

712
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 2: that the studios were going to start using chat, GPT

713
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 2: and other llms to create to write screenplays and basically

714
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 2: just access out of the conversation entirely, and so we

715
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 2: were trying to get some guardrails around that, and that

716
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 2: that was a big, big part of the reason for

717
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 2: this strike. And so AI was obviously like hugely on

718
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 2: my mind, and I wanted I wanted answers to a

719
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 2: couple of different different questions. I mean, firstly, like, how's

720
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,919
Speaker 2: this going to affect my children's future. My son, you know,

721
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 2: he has been into coding since he was a little kid.

722
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,320
Speaker 2: He was he even went to this after school program

723
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 2: called Code ninjas they have in some in some cities

724
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 2: where basically they you know, kids who are interested in coding,

725
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 2: they teach them. And he was learning how to codet roadblocks,

726
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 2: games and stuff like that. And how do I explain

727
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 2: to him? I wanted to ask Sam Altman to like,

728
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 2: what do I say to my son that he's not

729
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 2: going to have be able to have a job coding

730
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 2: when he grows up, because you won't.

731
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 1: Adam, We just we spent the last thirty years saying, hey,

732
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: we've got to change our education system so that it

733
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: prepares folks for the jobs of the twenty first century.

734
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 1: So it became STEM STEM sim right, you know, science, technologlogy,

735
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: education and all that. Right, it was all about STEM.

736
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 1: And now, I mean, you know your son is young

737
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 1: enough that there's you might be able to pivot in.

738
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 1: But this is a useless skill in this day and age.

739
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 1: And yet ten years ago it was seen as the

740
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,879
Speaker 1: gold you know, the skill to have the number one

741
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: skill to havelf that you wanted to be able to

742
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: say you did. So I'm with you. This is a

743
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: scary time for parents because how do you know if

744
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:40,280
Speaker 1: you're preparing your kid for their adulthood and the speed

745
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: of technological change is such that we don't know how

746
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: to do it. And this is why I think we're

747
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: all sort of confused at even what kind of public

748
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: education system we need to have.

749
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, so that was one of the first things

750
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 2: that I wanted to ask Sam Almon, and obviously one

751
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 2: of the inspirations for this Nie and embarking on this documentary.

752
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 2: I talked to a few different whistleblowers from Open AI,

753
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 2: people who are on the inside, couple who you see

754
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 2: in the film, couple who did not want to be

755
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 2: in the film, but I still talk to off the record.

756
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 2: They all told me that by the time my son

757
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 2: was eighteen, any job that could be done on a

758
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 2: computer would be done by AI. A human would no

759
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:30,320
Speaker 2: longer have that job. So so to answer your question,

760
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 2: like suddenly education for stuff like plumbing and manual labor

761
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 2: type of jobs is seeming a lot more, you know, valuable.

762
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 1: They why get these tech bros figure out how to

763
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: how to improve leaky faucets?

764
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 2: That's the thing is, like, I mean, they will, we

765
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 2: will at some point, but robots are going to be

766
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: the kind of last thing to happen because they're the hardest.

767
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 2: They're they're the most difficult thing to create and have

768
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 2: it actually work. So anything anything done on a computer, though,

769
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 2: it's like potentially within the next three years even will

770
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 2: that job will be gone. That job will be done

771
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 2: by AI entirely.

772
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,720
Speaker 1: I imagine another question you'd want to do to ask

773
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,800
Speaker 1: sam As is how do you how are we supposed

774
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: to teach critical thinking if you just have somebody else

775
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: do the thinking for you.

776
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, maybe we aren't teaching critical thinking in

777
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 2: the future, But then how does that change our brains?

778
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 2: How does that change society? That's scary to think about,

779
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 2: but these are things that, like, I think we have

780
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 2: to think about right now.

781
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: Man, the president, my son's at attending SMU and he

782
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 1: used to be the president, the president of the university

783
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 1: used to be the president at UT Austin. And here's

784
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: theory of the case that he actually thinks that. You know,

785
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: just as most universities had been shifting away from liberal

786
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: arts educations, liberal arts majors, like remember you know, there

787
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: was this you know, firestorm about five years ago when

788
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 1: you had multiple universities saying there's no longer going to

789
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 1: be an English department. There's no longer in the going

790
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: to be majors in that. And now actually he thinks

791
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 1: just the opposite, that all of these scides and all

792
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: this stem that they thought they had to have in

793
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: order to entice the next generation a student that actually

794
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: university and college education will be the classics again, because

795
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 1: actually it's the root education that people are going to

796
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: need in order to know how to prompt your artificial

797
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: intelligence machine.

798
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 2: That definitely assumes a world where humans are still in

799
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 2: the equation, you know, because people say, like, well, what

800
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 2: you can do right now? You know, the the best

801
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 2: way to prepare for them is to prepare for the

802
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: fact that that it's not going to be AI taking

803
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 2: over your job. It's going to be a human who

804
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 2: really knows how to use AI well taking over your job.

805
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 2: That's one philosophy. I don't know if that's necessarily true,

806
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 2: that assumes that humans will still be in the equation

807
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:23,760
Speaker 2: in the future. I can't. I can't predict or promise

808
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:24,800
Speaker 2: that's even true.

809
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 1: I think the one thing I just think that as

810
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,240
Speaker 1: we're as a species, we're not going to allow ourselves

811
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: to be replaced. Then the question is how do we

812
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 1: express that sentiment? You know? At one point, do we

813
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: feel as if it's actually coming and we have to

814
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 1: fight back, right and and but that's how I have optimism.

815
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, we're we're a clever species. We have

816
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: figured out how to survive a lot in order to

817
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 1: to to survive on this planet. I can't imagine we're

818
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 1: going to let robots replace this.

819
00:52:57,920 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think. I don't think we're going

820
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 2: to let it happen, but it we may not have

821
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 2: a choice, I think. But that's part of the You

822
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 2: know that there's a few schools of thought on this, right, Like,

823
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 2: there's one school of thought is that AI will completely

824
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 2: wipe us off the face of the earth. And it

825
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 2: won't do it for nefarious reasons, right, It'll do it because,

826
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:24,399
Speaker 2: for example, logical you program it to say, like, hey,

827
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 2: rid the world of pollution. Well, what's the first thing

828
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 2: that we're the worst?

829
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: Right? Where the number one cause of pollution?

830
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 2: You're the polluter. So the first thing logically would be

831
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 2: destroy all humans. And you know what it would be,

832
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,720
Speaker 2: right because we we we don't take care of this,

833
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 2: this this earth, so destroy us this.

834
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 1: Did you ever watch the sci fi series that seth

835
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: MacFarland did called the Orville.

836
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 2: No, no, I haven't.

837
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 1: He dabbles in this. It's a few years old, but

838
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,359
Speaker 1: they there's one, you know, it's sort of a Star

839
00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 1: Trek homage, right, And one of the species he creates

840
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 1: is a planet that was taken over by bots for

841
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: what you just described.

842
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's completely logical. But there is another school of

843
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 2: thought that AI will just keep us around because it

844
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:23,320
Speaker 2: will find some type of use for us. Then there's

845
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 2: a third school of thought where all those are ridiculous,

846
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 2: and that AI actually has no motivation to destroy us, Like,

847
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:34,879
Speaker 2: there's no underlying motivation there, So why would it do that?

848
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 2: And anybody who thinks that it would is just really

849
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 2: just like a doomsayer.

850
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 1: Well, in some ways it's the argument over gun regulation.

851
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:44,399
Speaker 1: Are guns good or bad? Or the people that use

852
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,879
Speaker 1: guns good or bad? Right? Is AI good or bad?

853
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 1: Or is it a neutral entity? And it's who's using

854
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:51,839
Speaker 1: the AI that can use it for good or use

855
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:52,399
Speaker 1: it for bad?

856
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,320
Speaker 2: Right? Speaking of guns, did you know that Sam Alman

857
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:01,720
Speaker 2: has a he he has a collection of assault rifles.

858
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 2: He's a gun nut. He has this giant collection of

859
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 2: assault rifles and grenades and all kinds of crazy stuff

860
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 2: in his house, one of his houses in Big sur

861
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 2: and he's like a prepper, he's a doomsday press. I

862
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 2: thought that was a really interesting fact.

863
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's funny wealth and doomsday prepping seems

864
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 1: to go hand in hand, right, because I guess you,

865
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 1: if you have the means right, you do it. It

866
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 1: does seem as if it is wealth. I don't I

867
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 1: wonder what drives it. It's they have so much money

868
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:36,439
Speaker 1: you want to be around to use it. I don't

869
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 1: know what it is, but I don't mean to stereotype,

870
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: but I feel like that goes you hear about this, right,

871
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 1: the wealthy people are the ones building the shelters. Or

872
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 1: what we saw was Zuckerberg's compound and a HI and

873
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: things like that.

874
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was a few years back. I was researching

875
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:58,879
Speaker 2: for a potential documentary on the Sea Stetter movement, and

876
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,479
Speaker 2: you know, it's these it's these this tech elite who

877
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:06,879
Speaker 2: want to actually move off to like islands, man made

878
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 2: islands in the ocean, like in the middle of the

879
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 2: ocean where there's no specific that you know, national nation,

880
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 2: no nation controls, so that they can create their own

881
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 2: sort of islands and unto themselves and do whatever they

882
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 2: want to do. I guess it's similar to Musk, like

883
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 2: going you know, going to Mars, right. But yeah, I

884
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 2: think there's also a certain paranoia to these people, like

885
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:39,760
Speaker 2: they're deeply paranoid individuals.

886
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: I had a source of mind back in the Obama

887
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: era who after they went to Silicon Valley, came back

888
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 1: and I said, so, what's the difference between Washington and

889
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,400
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley? He says, I thought Washington lived in a bubble,

890
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: he said, the world of Silicon Valley. And at the time,

891
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: he said, it seemed like half of Silicon Valley was

892
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 1: obsessed with living forever, and that this wasn't a small

893
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 1: percentage that it was literally because they had you know,

894
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: perhaps it was because they they have more money than lifespan, right,

895
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 1: And what's the one thing that's the hardest to buy

896
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: is time, And so there was this obsession. He said,

897
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 1: if America understood the psyche of Silicon Valley, they wouldn't

898
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: buy any more electronics. It would scare the be Jesus

899
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: out of them.

900
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know if that's necessarily true.

901
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, let's go back to the premise. When

902
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 1: did you start filming in a way that you knew

903
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: this was going to be the premise of the film

904
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: and that you were going to have to that the

905
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 1: journey to get Sam Altman was actually going to be

906
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 1: the documentary versus did you start thinking, well, let's put

907
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: this on tape in case of emergency. Was it always

908
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: in case of emergency or did you know pretty quick

909
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 1: Altman's never sitting down with me. Maybe I'll get him

910
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 1: at the very end because of you know, a Cara

911
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 1: Swisher X or something like that, but ultimately it's probably

912
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 1: not going to happen. Well, when did you know in

913
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: your brain what you were doing was more than just, uh,

914
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: you know, just putting something in the in on tape

915
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: just in case.

916
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 2: I really thought this was going to be a layup

917
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 2: getting an interview with him. I didn't think it was

918
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 2: going to be that difficult. I guess maybe I was

919
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 2: naive in that. But I've but I've I've gotten some

920
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 2: pretty difficult interview I mean, I interviewed Julianasange in the

921
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 2: in the in the embassy, and and and.

922
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: Of everybody of everybody, right.

923
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 2: So I've gotten some I've gotten some really hard interviews

924
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 2: because I never give up, and so I thought this

925
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 2: would be an easy one. I had, we had friends

926
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 2: in common, right, like I had a cell phone number,

927
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 2: like I didn't think there and then coming off of

928
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 2: the success of of of my series Telemarketers, I thought

929
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 2: that this, this would be a perfect opportunity. And strangely,

930
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 2: it just didn't happen. It never happened. I still haven't

931
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 2: even heard from him, like even even.

932
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 1: Even have you heard from people who've heard from him. No, yeah,

933
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 1: not even a secondhand.

934
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 2: Not even a second hand, like you know, not even.

935
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: His lawyer suing you to not do this, Like not

936
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: even not even a legal outreach, huh.

937
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 2: Not a lawyer, not a publicist, not nobody, absolutely no

938
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 2: one connected to him in any way, shape or form.

939
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 2: I expect though I will at some point, Like this

940
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 2: movie just came out right and in theaters in New

941
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 2: York last week, and then it'll be in DC this weekend,

942
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 2: so as it as it starts to roll out nationwide

943
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 2: and gain more steam, I feel like at some point

944
00:59:57,160 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 2: he's gonna have to say something, he's gonna have to

945
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 2: comment on it. We actually called him, We called his

946
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 2: cell phone during the Q and A on Saturday at

947
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 2: the at the at the Quad in New York. Me

948
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 2: and Benny Safty called called his cell phone and left

949
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 2: a message, so he got them. He got the message

950
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 2: that the movie is premiering, and I invited him to

951
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 2: the screening in LA so we'll see. I don't think

952
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 2: he's going to show.

953
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 1: What what's interesting here and what to me is different

954
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 1: from Roger and Me? Is that again? I go back to, Look,

955
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 1: I think you're definitely a skeptic coming into this, but

956
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 1: you I don't feel like you have a score to settle,

957
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: Like did you have any history? I mean, am I

958
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 1: missing something here? I'm just trying to figure out how

959
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 1: what made you so threatening? Right?

960
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 2: That's the key difference I think, you know, with Roger

961
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 2: and Me, Michael Moore had a score to settle in

962
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 2: terms of like him and him and his friends were

963
01:00:57,360 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 2: all fired, right, and.

964
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 1: In a weird I could see the PR team going,

965
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 1: oh man, just no, there's no good that comes from that.

966
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 1: Like I could picture the core way corporate communications work,

967
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 1: the way legal counsels work, you know, you know, even

968
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 1: if Roger Smith wanted to have talking no no, no, right,

969
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 1: don't do it like this a company that's desperate to

970
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 1: say we're not here to know, we're not scary, We're

971
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 1: we're okay. He has done some semi revealing interviews already,

972
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 1: so it was a strange. It's just strange to me

973
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 1: that you struggled with this.

974
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, for me, it was very different from from

975
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 2: Michael Moore. And and to your point, it seems like

976
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 2: he would want to he would want to answer questions like, hey,

977
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 2: what how will this affect my son when he grows up? Hey,

978
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 2: how how will this affect me as as a filmmaker?

979
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 2: And you have this like interest in Hollywood all of

980
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,360
Speaker 2: a sudden, like he was sending his people to his

981
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 2: minions down from Sora to meet with a lot of

982
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 2: my filmmaking friends and try to court them right. And

983
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 2: a lot of my director friends were like having these

984
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 2: like lunch meetings with Sora where they were like, oh,

985
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 2: we want you to use our technology, you know, And

986
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 2: of course everybody was like, you know, screw your technology,

987
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 2: Like we want nothing to do with this with his technology.

988
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 2: But it does seem odd like what And I always wondered,

989
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 2: like what does he have to hide? I don't think

990
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:38,280
Speaker 2: any of the interviews he did were because I've seen

991
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 2: pretty much all of them. I don't think any of

992
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 2: them were very revealing at all. I don't think he

993
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 2: answers questions from the heart. I think everything is completely

994
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 2: pr manipulated and I and I guarantee you he already

995
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:55,920
Speaker 2: has an answer for the question about my movie, like

996
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 2: he's already been trained on what to say about that.

997
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 2: The other funny thing is we have this friend in

998
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 2: common who gave me a cell phone number who will

999
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 2: remain nameless, told me he has AI read all his

1000
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 2: emails and text messages and summarize them back to him.

1001
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 2: He never he doesn't actually read any of them.

1002
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 1: Well, that's just a strange, you know. And I think

1003
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 1: this gets back to who's building these technologies and what

1004
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: is their life experience and how many you know. One

1005
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 1: of my favorite Kerash swisherisms where she gets she can

1006
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:33,439
Speaker 1: be a little snarky shockingly and I say this with love,

1007
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 1: she's a good friend, is when she sort of implied,

1008
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 1: you know, Mark Zuckerberg, you know, nineteen year old at

1009
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 1: Harvard didn't know how to talk to girls in person,

1010
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 1: so he came up with a hack to try to

1011
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 1: get a date. YadA, YadA, YadA. We had Facebook, you know,

1012
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 1: and so many of these sort of tech developments have

1013
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 1: come to freuituition based on, you know, a desire. Hey,

1014
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 1: these were lonely kids, so they wanted to create artificial friends,

1015
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 1: right like, rather than thinking how does the average person

1016
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 1: live life? And you often wonder with some of these

1017
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 1: tech bros, are are they fixing problems that were more

1018
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:25,680
Speaker 1: unique because they were their problems, not are not society's problems?

1019
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 2: Right? I mean, I think I think that's a that

1020
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 2: that's a minority of them. Sadly, I think most of

1021
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:38,439
Speaker 2: them are just trying to get rich. And I've I've

1022
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 2: talked to plenty of them who were or even people

1023
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 2: who worked for certain tech titans, who were just working

1024
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 2: on products that they knew had no reason to even

1025
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 2: exist in the world other than to just get some

1026
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 2: get a few people rich.

1027
01:04:56,560 --> 01:05:00,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean social media. I think the initial idea

1028
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:03,960
Speaker 1: of social media wasn't about money making, and then it

1029
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 1: became a perverted money making operation, and obviously it's now

1030
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 1: the mess that it is today.

1031
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 2: Right social media. You know, I've had these discussions recently,

1032
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:20,000
Speaker 2: similar discussions about AI that that that we have about

1033
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 2: social media. There was a woman who came to one

1034
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 2: of my screenings who runs an organization. I wish I

1035
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 2: could remember the name now, but it's it's like sort

1036
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 2: of like mothers, like Mother's against drunk driving, but it's

1037
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 2: like mothers against social media.

1038
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no, no, it's called Mama. I interviewed her

1039
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 1: Mothers against Media Addiction. I think she calls it, Yes,

1040
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken.

1041
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:47,480
Speaker 2: So she came to my screening, loved the film, lovely

1042
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:51,920
Speaker 2: person and I and I and I I so I

1043
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 2: respect what her mission I have. I have a son

1044
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 2: and and you know, I want the best for him.

1045
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 2: But I also I'm wary about wholesale like, uh, wiping

1046
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,320
Speaker 2: these these technologies off the face of the earth, because

1047
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 2: then I'm also always reminded of social media, and I'm

1048
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:18,800
Speaker 2: always reminded of the Arab Spring, and we quickly forget that, Yes,

1049
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 2: these things can cause problems and trauma on you know,

1050
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 2: privileged kids in the first world, but they can also

1051
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 2: completely change like the entire trajectory of uh a country overseas.

1052
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:40,360
Speaker 2: And so it's it's.

1053
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 1: About But what was the real lesson of the Arab

1054
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 1: Spring is that totalitarian countries realized, oh, screw this, We're

1055
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:50,440
Speaker 1: going to weaponize it. And so now in some cases

1056
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: I take your point there, and I think, look, we

1057
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 1: all bought. I bought the I bought the good of

1058
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 1: the Arab spring. At the time, you thought, okay, this

1059
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 1: is what it was about. This really is democratizing the

1060
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 1: ability to speak out, democratizing all of this, and then

1061
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: governments figured out how to weaponize it, and then we

1062
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 1: got what the world we live in right now, you know,

1063
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 1: arguably between twenty sixteen and today.

1064
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:21,920
Speaker 2: Sure. So in regards to AI, this is another thing

1065
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 2: that I think I spoke about recently at a Q

1066
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 2: and A was I read this article about this young

1067
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 2: female documentary filmmaker in China who was using AI to

1068
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 2: tell her stories about the government and about life there

1069
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 2: that she would never be able to tell without because

1070
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:53,400
Speaker 2: for various reasons, obviously because she'd be arrested or because

1071
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 2: of the government, but also because she didn't have the

1072
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 2: resources a camera or anything to actually film. So there

1073
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 2: will be I think benefits. There will be interesting things

1074
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 2: that come out of this. And again I'm I'm all

1075
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 2: for for for strong regulation, but I'm not for just

1076
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:17,280
Speaker 2: like wholesale discounting of technology, and so it's it was

1077
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 2: an interesting It was interesting talking to her about AI,

1078
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:23,639
Speaker 2: and I feel like her viewpoint on AI was very

1079
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:28,640
Speaker 2: much like, we need to shut this effing thing down completely.

1080
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 2: And a few people have come to me with that

1081
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:33,639
Speaker 2: at Q and A's and been a little bit upset

1082
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 2: with me because I'm not that person. I'm not saying that.

1083
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 1: How would we just erase the technology? I just don't

1084
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:43,280
Speaker 1: buy When have we ever done that in the history

1085
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 1: of civilization?

1086
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:48,720
Speaker 2: Right? I mean it's it's largely impossible.

1087
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 1: Let's let's blow up the Gutenberg, you know, let's get

1088
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 1: rid of the printing press. Yeah, this is causing educating

1089
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:59,639
Speaker 1: too many people, the serfs what too many are spreading

1090
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 1: too many ideas.

1091
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 2: So on the flip side, the reason sam Almon has

1092
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:09,600
Speaker 2: become so powerful is the is the the one of

1093
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:12,320
Speaker 2: the argument, and I'm now I'm going to argue against myself. Right.

1094
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:16,080
Speaker 2: One of his things is this fear based tactic where

1095
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 2: he came to d C and he met with all

1096
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 2: the generals, and he met with all he met with

1097
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:22,639
Speaker 2: all the weapons people, and he said, look, if China

1098
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:26,320
Speaker 2: beats us at this, we're dead. So he put the

1099
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 2: fear of God and all these people that we in

1100
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,639
Speaker 2: DC that we need to start spending money, money, money, money,

1101
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,120
Speaker 2: because we have to beat China, because it's like some

1102
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 2: crazy arms race that like.

1103
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:40,280
Speaker 1: Well, how do you why did we get why did

1104
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 1: we go to the moon?

1105
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 2: I mean, did we go to the moon? It's just kidding,

1106
01:09:44,479 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 2: but yeah, yeah, exactly, it was to beat the Soviets.

1107
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 1: If there's no Cold War, we don't go to the moon.

1108
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:53,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. And that's why Altman's so smart too, because he

1109
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 2: completely sees that, and he's using that playbook now to

1110
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:59,639
Speaker 2: make himself incredibly rich. You know, Opening Eye was a

1111
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 2: non profit when I started this film. Halfway through production.

1112
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:06,639
Speaker 2: Overnight he created he turned it into a for profit

1113
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:08,720
Speaker 2: company and made himself what was it, seven or nine

1114
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:13,040
Speaker 2: billion dollars overnight? Right, Like he's just he's a super villain.

1115
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:19,000
Speaker 1: That's an interesting Are you sure he's a bad actor?

1116
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:22,680
Speaker 2: I am? I am now. I wasn't when I went

1117
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:24,559
Speaker 2: into this, and I wanted to give him the benefit

1118
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 2: of the doubt. But every move that he's made since

1119
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 2: then has shown me that he is a marvel level

1120
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 2: super villain.

1121
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 1: Hm. Wow, that's a I mean, I look the picture

1122
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:42,679
Speaker 1: you're painting. I I get it. I understand where you're

1123
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 1: coming from. I mean, I guess Sam Altman or Elon Musk.

1124
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:51,760
Speaker 1: Which one is? Your is more marvel like in their

1125
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 1: villain villain is.

1126
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:57,320
Speaker 2: Stay Oh, Elon easily, and mainly because Elon at least

1127
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:00,519
Speaker 2: has a personality, right He's I.

1128
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:02,760
Speaker 1: Joke that if you made the Bond film and you

1129
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 1: said the villain was named the Bond villain was named

1130
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:07,639
Speaker 1: Elon Musk, You're like, you wouldn't even change the name.

1131
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, that's a perfect name.

1132
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, he I mean he's got he see, Alman

1133
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:16,840
Speaker 2: doesn't really have a personality. Elon's is a weird guy

1134
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 2: who names his kids X three, J five and like,

1135
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:24,120
Speaker 2: you know, uh, wants to go to Mars and is

1136
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:28,840
Speaker 2: and is and spouts off out the craziest stuff you

1137
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:32,200
Speaker 2: could possibly think of. Allman is very like even keeled.

1138
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:34,840
Speaker 2: Doesn't make him anymore any less of a villain though,

1139
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:39,040
Speaker 2: but he's but he's less interesting in terms of Marvel characteristics.

1140
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:42,920
Speaker 1: Does he scare you more than the folks at Google?

1141
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:48,480
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, definitely, But maybe that's Google's.

1142
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 1: To what that's going to be? Right? I mean Google

1143
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 1: is now right, Gemini is overtaken, chat TPT and some

1144
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:58,440
Speaker 1: of the measurement scores, and you know, Google is reminding

1145
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:01,760
Speaker 1: open ai of what it's like when you have all

1146
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:05,080
Speaker 1: the resources that Google has when they change, when when

1147
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 1: they sort of focus their efforts. Uh, they've made some

1148
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 1: big leaps and bounds, and they have you know, all

1149
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 1: these Android phones running around already that they can immediately

1150
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 1: sort of embed themselves in now Apple Dot to deal

1151
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:20,600
Speaker 1: with Google. I mean, you know, I could argue that

1152
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 1: that this has been a bad year for Sam Altman

1153
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:28,599
Speaker 1: because of how Google is in some ways caught up

1154
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:29,479
Speaker 1: to open Ai.

1155
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:33,120
Speaker 2: So it's an interesting point and I and I would

1156
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 2: also I'll tell you going into this film, I took

1157
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:42,360
Speaker 2: a chance on Sam Altman, right like, he he could

1158
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:46,600
Speaker 2: completely disappear off the face of the Earth by the

1159
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:48,720
Speaker 2: end of this year and be sort of like a

1160
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:53,160
Speaker 2: flash in a pan that nobody remembers his name, or

1161
01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 2: he could be the next Steve Jobs. Making this movie,

1162
01:12:57,120 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 2: I took a chance on him that he would be

1163
01:12:59,880 --> 01:13:04,960
Speaker 2: like a Steve Jobs type figure in the future, because obviously,

1164
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't make this movie for right now.

1165
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:10,400
Speaker 2: I also made it for the future. I want. I

1166
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:13,960
Speaker 2: wanted this this movie to be still watched and all

1167
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:16,479
Speaker 2: filmmakers do, right, We all want our movies to watched

1168
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:20,559
Speaker 2: five ten years down the road. So I so in

1169
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 2: that regard, I agree with you, Like I don't know,

1170
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:25,479
Speaker 2: I don't I don't totally know, but I know that

1171
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:29,680
Speaker 2: I gamble. I'm gambling on him in a way that

1172
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:33,799
Speaker 2: and gambling on open Ai that it will beat Gemini,

1173
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:36,719
Speaker 2: that it will that it will beat Anthropic and be

1174
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:39,599
Speaker 2: be the number one, be the Apple, because that will

1175
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:41,679
Speaker 2: just make my movie more relevant. Right.

1176
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 1: But taking that away, I mean, are you just gambling

1177
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:48,759
Speaker 1: on him or or you just believe that because everything

1178
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:51,280
Speaker 1: you've learned? I mean, do you think he is just unique?

1179
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:54,840
Speaker 1: Like Jobs? Jobs had a uniqueness to him, right? And

1180
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:59,000
Speaker 1: you know, in some ways, the Walter Isaacson biography sort

1181
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:02,760
Speaker 1: of you know, painted a picture. It's like, okay, he

1182
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:06,160
Speaker 1: was he was so obsessed with what he was doing

1183
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:08,680
Speaker 1: that you know when the best father and wasn't the

1184
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:11,559
Speaker 1: best this and wasn't the best? That is is is

1185
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:13,920
Speaker 1: there a drive in Altman that you think is just

1186
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:15,680
Speaker 1: superior to whatever Google can do?

1187
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 2: Again, I don't know too much about the people that

1188
01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:24,120
Speaker 2: run Google, but I do know a lot about Steve Jobs.

1189
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 2: I mean, he as young as a younger, like college student.

1190
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:30,479
Speaker 2: He was a hero of mine. I read Walter Risey's

1191
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:33,840
Speaker 2: an incredible book, Seeing All Seeing All all the movies

1192
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:37,599
Speaker 2: about jobs, and there's a similar thing running through Altman

1193
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 2: and jobs. For sure, there's a similar drive that they

1194
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:46,599
Speaker 2: they just don't care who who gets hurt along the way.

1195
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:51,320
Speaker 2: They're just going to plow forward and take over the world.

1196
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 1: Did you ever talk to Woznik about jobs?

1197
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:03,120
Speaker 2: Have you ever met what those loves to I'm also

1198
01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:05,519
Speaker 2: a huge fan of was I would love I would

1199
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:07,679
Speaker 2: love to talk to him one day, because.

1200
01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:09,360
Speaker 1: You know, there's always been these different theories like what

1201
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:12,120
Speaker 1: what's an alternative like in the in an alternative universe?

1202
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:14,840
Speaker 1: What if it? What if jobs? You know, when he

1203
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:17,679
Speaker 1: leaves Apple, Wosnick is sort of takes over and he's

1204
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:22,080
Speaker 1: the you know, what would Apple be the same? Would

1205
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:24,680
Speaker 1: it have been? You know, it's what It's an unanswerable

1206
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 1: question now. But Wosnick was always seen as sort of

1207
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:30,680
Speaker 1: the moral center for jobs, right, he was sort of

1208
01:15:30,680 --> 01:15:33,760
Speaker 1: the ethical that he was, and I think even you know,

1209
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:37,120
Speaker 1: and he wasn't. It didn't seem like wosny CK's motivation

1210
01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:38,040
Speaker 1: was financial.

1211
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:43,080
Speaker 2: No, I mean I I think I think it wouldn't

1212
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 2: have been the same, And I also I don't think

1213
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:48,160
Speaker 2: it would have been as successful because just from what

1214
01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:51,639
Speaker 2: I've read, was was just too nice of a guy.

1215
01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:56,800
Speaker 1: Right, So, which, of course, is these dilemmas when you're

1216
01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:59,760
Speaker 1: when you when we deal with these supposed you know,

1217
01:15:59,840 --> 01:16:03,400
Speaker 1: are are we supposed to accept that the only successful

1218
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 1: disruptors to develop technologies that are amazing, you know, have

1219
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:10,720
Speaker 1: to be assholes.

1220
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 2: I don't think we have to accept it. I think

1221
01:16:14,479 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 2: that we for some reason as a society, we we

1222
01:16:19,439 --> 01:16:21,280
Speaker 2: not only do we let it happen, but but like

1223
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:25,519
Speaker 2: we we we perpetuate that, like we prop that up.

1224
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:30,439
Speaker 2: I don't think they have to be I don't, I

1225
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:33,400
Speaker 2: really don't. I think I think nice guys can can

1226
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 2: get ahead. But as a society, this is this is

1227
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:38,880
Speaker 2: what we've I think we're taught even growing up.

1228
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:44,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially the great CEOs, you know, they're they're they're ruthless,

1229
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:46,800
Speaker 1: and you have to be ruthless to succeed. And then

1230
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 1: I want to say, have you met the CEO of Costco?

1231
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:54,640
Speaker 1: You know, he's a pretty successful dude, and his employees

1232
01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:57,800
Speaker 1: love him because he pays her employees pretty well, and

1233
01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 1: he's you know, he's different than the average average bottom

1234
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:02,120
Speaker 1: line CEO.

1235
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it's a narrative that we buy into and

1236
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:08,439
Speaker 2: that we teach our kids. And I was believe me,

1237
01:17:08,479 --> 01:17:11,040
Speaker 2: I was taught at and it took me a while.

1238
01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:17,479
Speaker 2: And it took me. It took me following shadowing certain

1239
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:21,880
Speaker 2: directors that were really genuinely good, nice people like Jim

1240
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 2: Jarmish to realize you don't have to be an asshole director.

1241
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:29,360
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm glad you just brought that up, right.

1242
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:34,080
Speaker 1: Hollywood's riddled with stories about you know, the asshole director

1243
01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 1: that made the great movies versus you know, and is

1244
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:41,719
Speaker 1: that even tolerated behavior anymore?

1245
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:47,080
Speaker 2: It's not tolerated anymore. We really did away with it during.

1246
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 1: The Harvey basically me too.

1247
01:17:50,439 --> 01:17:55,360
Speaker 2: And Harvey, Yeah it was Harvey. Basically, it was definitely tolerated.

1248
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:58,080
Speaker 2: I witnessed a lot of it at the beginning, you know,

1249
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:00,559
Speaker 2: because I've been doing this for twenty five years. Like

1250
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:06,320
Speaker 2: I knew. I knew Brett Ratner, for instance, Like I

1251
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:10,759
Speaker 2: saw him do terrible, horrible people, horrible things to people.

1252
01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:14,559
Speaker 2: But then on the flip side, you know, I worked

1253
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:17,960
Speaker 2: with alongside people like Jim Jarmish, who couldn't couldn't have

1254
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:21,760
Speaker 2: been the most complete opposite of a Brett Rattner. But

1255
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:27,080
Speaker 2: we've largely like disposed of those people. The scary thing

1256
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:29,880
Speaker 2: is I see them like starting to slowly creep back in.

1257
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:33,320
Speaker 2: So I think we I think I think we need

1258
01:18:33,320 --> 01:18:36,960
Speaker 2: to like, you know, keep keep up, keep on our tone.

1259
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:38,920
Speaker 1: Well, I mean this is where political leaders may have

1260
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:43,520
Speaker 1: offered a permission slip for bad behavior again exactly exactly.

1261
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:47,040
Speaker 2: I mean that's part of it. And unfortunately, like younger

1262
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:52,240
Speaker 2: generations pick up on that, and you know, bad behavior

1263
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:54,160
Speaker 2: starts to become in vogue. Again.

1264
01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:02,800
Speaker 1: Let me go back to the to the movie What

1265
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:04,240
Speaker 1: do you want people to take away?

1266
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:09,719
Speaker 2: So to me, there's a lot of anxiety around AI

1267
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:15,000
Speaker 2: and you know, people are worried. People are worried, is

1268
01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 2: it's going to take my job? Is is this what's

1269
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:20,599
Speaker 2: going to happen to my to my kids, what's gonna

1270
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:24,400
Speaker 2: happen to humans in general? Like, there's there's a lot

1271
01:19:24,439 --> 01:19:29,280
Speaker 2: of talk, right, and I don't my movie doesn't have

1272
01:19:29,439 --> 01:19:33,559
Speaker 2: any easy answers. But what I would like people to

1273
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:35,120
Speaker 2: take away And part of the reason why I'm like

1274
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:37,479
Speaker 2: going around the country and like doing Q and A's

1275
01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:40,479
Speaker 2: and talking about this film is because I think one

1276
01:19:40,479 --> 01:19:43,720
Speaker 2: of the best ways to cure anxiety is just to

1277
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:47,519
Speaker 2: talk about it, right, And so if I could start

1278
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:53,680
Speaker 2: conversation and get people talking, that's that's all. That's all

1279
01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:57,200
Speaker 2: I want to achieve. Really, that's that's the that's that's

1280
01:19:57,240 --> 01:20:00,240
Speaker 2: the least that I could really do to to just

1281
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:02,960
Speaker 2: help people, you know, and then entertain them at the

1282
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:05,559
Speaker 2: same time. It is a comedy. I want people to laugh.

1283
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:06,559
Speaker 2: I want people to like.

1284
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:09,519
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that, because I felt this was

1285
01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:16,200
Speaker 1: not satire, but you were trying to You weren't trying

1286
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:19,439
Speaker 1: to be boring, that was for sure. And you weren't

1287
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:21,559
Speaker 1: and you weren't trying to lecture.

1288
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:23,519
Speaker 2: Can I put that on a poster?

1289
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:25,240
Speaker 1: Go for it.

1290
01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:28,880
Speaker 2: Man, he wasn't trying to be boring, Chuck tuh right uh.

1291
01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:31,719
Speaker 1: But and you clearly weren't trying to lecture, right, Yeah.

1292
01:20:31,720 --> 01:20:33,600
Speaker 1: And that's why I was curious, what what did you

1293
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:36,280
Speaker 1: hope to take away? I mean, you know, I thought

1294
01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:38,160
Speaker 1: it was very clever some of the things you did,

1295
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:40,479
Speaker 1: which is, you know, part of the process of making

1296
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:44,120
Speaker 1: the film and searching for Sam Altman, and is also

1297
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:47,519
Speaker 1: you went around and figured out, okay, what's the legal

1298
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:49,680
Speaker 1: you talk? You brought your lawyer on what can I

1299
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:54,160
Speaker 1: do legally? Which I thought was an InTru you know, look,

1300
01:20:54,200 --> 01:20:58,719
Speaker 1: it was transparent And are you at all concerned about

1301
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:00,040
Speaker 1: legal exposure on this?

1302
01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:02,840
Speaker 2: By the way, not at all. And I think it's

1303
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:07,920
Speaker 2: for those reasons, like I made the process extremely transparent,

1304
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:14,599
Speaker 2: so no spoilers. This isn't a spoiler, but like we

1305
01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:17,840
Speaker 2: show the guts of like the deep fake and how

1306
01:21:17,880 --> 01:21:18,519
Speaker 2: we make it.

1307
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:21,840
Speaker 1: Oh exactly, it's the whole process, which I think was

1308
01:21:21,880 --> 01:21:25,240
Speaker 1: a healthy exercise. I you know, I've had people recommend

1309
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 1: tell me I should make my own chuck bot large

1310
01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:35,720
Speaker 1: language model, and I am, there's I'm like, why do

1311
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:38,400
Speaker 1: I want to do that? You know, I don't know.

1312
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 1: You know it's like upload my books and upload all that,

1313
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:46,080
Speaker 1: and you're like, I don't know. My thinking's evolved over

1314
01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:49,640
Speaker 1: thirty five years. I don't want to always have what

1315
01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:53,280
Speaker 1: I thought twenty years ago be the baseline for what

1316
01:21:53,479 --> 01:21:57,000
Speaker 1: my bot thinks. Anyway, it's it's a but I thought

1317
01:21:57,000 --> 01:21:59,400
Speaker 1: it was a healthy thing to let people know how

1318
01:21:59,439 --> 01:22:00,320
Speaker 1: this is done.

1319
01:22:01,080 --> 01:22:04,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and to be transparent that like, you know,

1320
01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:08,680
Speaker 2: we're not what you're seeing is not supposed to manipulate

1321
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:12,120
Speaker 2: you or trick you, like, because that is where I

1322
01:22:12,200 --> 01:22:14,280
Speaker 2: draw the line. I think there are there are ethics

1323
01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:16,360
Speaker 2: around this, and I think when you're trying to manipulate

1324
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:20,360
Speaker 2: people and trick people through deep fakes or or through

1325
01:22:20,439 --> 01:22:25,160
Speaker 2: AI generated video, that's just that's just wrong. That is unethical.

1326
01:22:25,920 --> 01:22:28,720
Speaker 2: And people ask me, well, what do we what you know,

1327
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:31,599
Speaker 2: what what do you think people should do about it? Well, like, yeah,

1328
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:33,240
Speaker 2: I think I think there should be some type of

1329
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:36,360
Speaker 2: disclaimer on it in the same way that you know,

1330
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:40,360
Speaker 2: back in the nineties there were parental advisory logos on

1331
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:43,400
Speaker 2: rap music that I would buy, Like, you know, it's

1332
01:22:43,439 --> 01:22:47,880
Speaker 2: that simple. Uh, but yeah, it's it's it's a it's

1333
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:52,040
Speaker 2: a huge it's a huge problem, this idea that we

1334
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:54,600
Speaker 2: won't be able to tell what's real and what's not

1335
01:22:54,760 --> 01:22:57,639
Speaker 2: and what's AI generated in the very near future.

1336
01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:00,920
Speaker 1: I think sometimes when we're trying to figure out what

1337
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:03,560
Speaker 1: to regulate, you almost have to go through the process

1338
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:07,559
Speaker 1: of doing what you did deep faking of a well

1339
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:12,240
Speaker 1: known person to then understand what regulate what a pragmatic

1340
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:16,360
Speaker 1: regulatory structure would look like. So you went through this process,

1341
01:23:16,479 --> 01:23:18,519
Speaker 1: you might have had some idea of what it would

1342
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:21,519
Speaker 1: look like before, but now that you've done it, what

1343
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:24,360
Speaker 1: do you think? And now like, hey, and I say this,

1344
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:27,200
Speaker 1: advise me. What are the questions I should be asking

1345
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:33,160
Speaker 1: candidates running for office about AI regulation that you now

1346
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:36,479
Speaker 1: understand in a way that you didn't when you started

1347
01:23:36,479 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 1: this film?

1348
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:41,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I hope that candidates running for office

1349
01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:44,800
Speaker 2: at least have because some of these there are just

1350
01:23:45,200 --> 01:23:48,240
Speaker 2: so many dinosaurs who don't even know, like I can't

1351
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:50,360
Speaker 2: even talk about this kind of stuff, But I would

1352
01:23:50,360 --> 01:23:52,720
Speaker 2: hope that they would that they would be able to

1353
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:57,360
Speaker 2: have a conversation and answer questions like what are we

1354
01:23:57,439 --> 01:24:01,879
Speaker 2: going to do about AI generated video in the future,

1355
01:24:02,479 --> 01:24:05,320
Speaker 2: Like how are we like, how are we going to

1356
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:08,920
Speaker 2: differentiate it? How are we going to make sure that

1357
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:13,880
Speaker 2: that our children and are like grandparents aren't like duped

1358
01:24:13,920 --> 01:24:16,240
Speaker 2: by this kind of stuff? Like how are you how

1359
01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:18,000
Speaker 2: are like how is that going to happen? How are

1360
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:19,800
Speaker 2: you gonna how are you gonna do this?

1361
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:20,120
Speaker 1: Like?

1362
01:24:20,160 --> 01:24:22,320
Speaker 2: The problem is they have no idea what that even means.

1363
01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:22,840
Speaker 2: Most of them.

1364
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:24,519
Speaker 1: Can I just tell you, I can't tell you how

1365
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:27,320
Speaker 1: many times I go on social media and I'll follow

1366
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:30,320
Speaker 1: and somebody will say, well, we'll sort of forward a

1367
01:24:30,360 --> 01:24:33,760
Speaker 1: post and say, well, this is obvious AI slop, And

1368
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:36,120
Speaker 1: I look at at it with my fifty three year

1369
01:24:36,160 --> 01:24:39,639
Speaker 1: old eyes and I'm like, going, it is. I see.

1370
01:24:39,680 --> 01:24:42,400
Speaker 1: I don't see two knees, I don't see six fingers, right,

1371
01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:46,160
Speaker 1: I know that the rudimentary checklist. But as we know,

1372
01:24:46,200 --> 01:24:50,360
Speaker 1: all this stuff gets better, you know, I think it's

1373
01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:53,439
Speaker 1: harder than ever to see the distinction. And yet it

1374
01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:56,320
Speaker 1: does seem as if people with younger eyes like you

1375
01:24:56,360 --> 01:24:58,200
Speaker 1: go through this in the film. Again, I apology for

1376
01:24:58,240 --> 01:25:01,000
Speaker 1: the spoiler, but I remember at one point, the first

1377
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:03,920
Speaker 1: time you debut your your deep fake, after the whole

1378
01:25:04,479 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 1: there's kind of a little bit of a of an

1379
01:25:07,080 --> 01:25:10,479
Speaker 1: escapade of trying to get the Guide to the Caribbean

1380
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. I don't want to that. I

1381
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:13,479
Speaker 1: think that's a fun part of the movie. I don't

1382
01:25:13,479 --> 01:25:16,360
Speaker 1: want to spoil that. It's kind of a little humorous part.

1383
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:20,280
Speaker 1: But I remember I think it was I think it

1384
01:25:20,320 --> 01:25:23,320
Speaker 1: was you or a colleague who said, oh man, my

1385
01:25:24,160 --> 01:25:26,559
Speaker 1: fourteen year old would not believe that that looks like

1386
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:31,360
Speaker 1: a bad video game. Character, and I'm like, okay, if

1387
01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:35,080
Speaker 1: you say so, Like I didn't. I felt like, oh no,

1388
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:36,720
Speaker 1: are my eyes too old to see this?

1389
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:41,559
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, that was That was me being a perfectionist director,

1390
01:25:41,800 --> 01:25:45,320
Speaker 2: I guess, but it did. You're right, some people have

1391
01:25:45,439 --> 01:25:48,599
Speaker 2: seen the deep fake and this this is like kind

1392
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:50,880
Speaker 2: of a spoiler, but like some people have seen the

1393
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:53,559
Speaker 2: deep fake when it's finally created in the movie and thought, like,

1394
01:25:54,479 --> 01:25:56,559
Speaker 2: what are you talking about, Adam? That was actually really

1395
01:25:56,560 --> 01:26:01,360
Speaker 2: good and so yeah it is. It is y, but

1396
01:26:01,400 --> 01:26:03,600
Speaker 2: that to me is even scarier because I feel like

1397
01:26:03,680 --> 01:26:09,360
Speaker 2: then I think about, you know, certain certain members of

1398
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:12,280
Speaker 2: my family who maybe aren't as like on you know,

1399
01:26:12,479 --> 01:26:16,479
Speaker 2: always on the internet, as as I am right being

1400
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:20,320
Speaker 2: duped by this getting getting a call. I mean, the

1401
01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:23,040
Speaker 2: craziest things are going to happen, right, getting a FaceTime

1402
01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:26,639
Speaker 2: from me, like saying like I'm in trouble, I need money,

1403
01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:27,639
Speaker 2: Like right now, have you.

1404
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:29,960
Speaker 1: Come up with the code words with your family? Yet

1405
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:31,960
Speaker 1: I keep having people tell me I should and I

1406
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:32,280
Speaker 1: have it.

1407
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:36,200
Speaker 2: Yet Yeah, that reminds me that I have to as well.

1408
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:40,439
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, right now, it's it's not so

1409
01:26:40,520 --> 01:26:44,120
Speaker 2: much the video, it's the voice cloning, the voice cloning

1410
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:45,160
Speaker 2: is pretty.

1411
01:26:46,280 --> 01:26:48,920
Speaker 1: I'm personally petrified to that because of how much of

1412
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:51,880
Speaker 1: my voice is out there. Yeah right, it's just sitting

1413
01:26:51,880 --> 01:26:55,400
Speaker 1: out there and fair use land, fair use land yet, right,

1414
01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:58,439
Speaker 1: And I that is something that has concerned me. I

1415
01:26:58,439 --> 01:27:00,280
Speaker 1: don't know what to do about it. What amout, but

1416
01:27:00,479 --> 01:27:04,160
Speaker 1: it's a concern I really have. What I mean, I'm

1417
01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:08,439
Speaker 1: not Matthew McConaughey who's decided to like trademark is at

1418
01:27:08,520 --> 01:27:12,439
Speaker 1: least some of his sayings, which is maybe he's onto something.

1419
01:27:12,479 --> 01:27:12,880
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1420
01:27:13,560 --> 01:27:17,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he is onto something. I don't think

1421
01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:19,000
Speaker 2: there's much we can do about it other than yeah,

1422
01:27:19,120 --> 01:27:22,720
Speaker 2: like have a safe word. This sounds so crazy to

1423
01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:23,800
Speaker 2: even talk about it, but.

1424
01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:27,360
Speaker 1: Like, did you think twenty years ago you'd be having geez?

1425
01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:29,920
Speaker 1: We got to have safe words and it had nothing

1426
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:30,759
Speaker 1: to do with sex.

1427
01:27:31,200 --> 01:27:31,559
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1428
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:33,960
Speaker 1: Sorry, I mean, I don't mean to go but like,

1429
01:27:34,040 --> 01:27:36,040
Speaker 1: you know, the first time I heard safe words, it's

1430
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:37,160
Speaker 1: usually associated with that.

1431
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:43,600
Speaker 2: It's it's crazy to think that we have to have

1432
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:47,559
Speaker 2: a conversation with our kids of like, hey, or our

1433
01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:49,360
Speaker 2: our grandparents are our parents are.

1434
01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:51,120
Speaker 1: Just going to say it's really our parents? I think

1435
01:27:51,240 --> 01:27:51,920
Speaker 1: might tell.

1436
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:54,920
Speaker 2: You and I'm I'm and I'm in trouble asking for

1437
01:27:55,040 --> 01:27:58,479
Speaker 2: money that might not be me, Like right, hold on

1438
01:27:58,680 --> 01:28:02,120
Speaker 2: just a second, and you know, text me on the

1439
01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:05,360
Speaker 2: other line, because that may not be me. But that's

1440
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:07,680
Speaker 2: the kind of conversations that we're going to have to

1441
01:28:07,800 --> 01:28:11,679
Speaker 2: have like now, like not not now, but right now.

1442
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:13,880
Speaker 1: Well it's funny, you know with AI safety, I mean,

1443
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:16,840
Speaker 1: who should be paying for those public service announcements? Like

1444
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:19,000
Speaker 1: in some ways, if this is what we have to do,

1445
01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:23,559
Speaker 1: and you know, there's a part of me that wonders

1446
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:26,519
Speaker 1: if you start doing that as sort of like a PSA,

1447
01:28:27,120 --> 01:28:29,160
Speaker 1: are we accepting the premise that we're all just going

1448
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:31,760
Speaker 1: to get deep faked? Or do we still want to

1449
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:32,120
Speaker 1: fight this?

1450
01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:35,880
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think we can fight it. I

1451
01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:39,240
Speaker 2: think we need to accept the head premise. But maybe

1452
01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:44,000
Speaker 2: that's just me. But I also made this movie called

1453
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:45,520
Speaker 2: Deep Faking Sam Altman.

1454
01:28:46,200 --> 01:28:49,800
Speaker 1: Right, speaking of making that movie, what parts of AI

1455
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:53,880
Speaker 1: as a movie maker? You're like, oh, man, I I

1456
01:28:54,520 --> 01:28:57,360
Speaker 1: you know, I walk that picket line this or that.

1457
01:28:57,479 --> 01:29:01,000
Speaker 1: But boy, that's kind of nice that I could do

1458
01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:04,479
Speaker 1: this and this short of time. Is there some tools

1459
01:29:04,479 --> 01:29:08,160
Speaker 1: that you just like, definitely guilty guilty that you feel

1460
01:29:08,160 --> 01:29:09,519
Speaker 1: guilty about how great they are.

1461
01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:15,320
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Like so I'm a documentary filmmaker. I do

1462
01:29:15,479 --> 01:29:19,559
Speaker 2: make more traditional documentary films. This one is definitely a

1463
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:22,439
Speaker 2: weird or more narrative hybrid one. But you know, I

1464
01:29:22,520 --> 01:29:27,680
Speaker 2: did that the alt right documentary about Charlottesville riot. So

1465
01:29:28,360 --> 01:29:33,680
Speaker 2: the ability to create, to generate archival footage, to not

1466
01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:36,360
Speaker 2: have to go spend.

1467
01:29:36,160 --> 01:29:39,719
Speaker 1: The amount of time right to get archival footage like that,

1468
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:41,840
Speaker 1: that could in some ways take more time than just

1469
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:44,280
Speaker 1: shooting what you're shooting, right.

1470
01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:47,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, like going out and hunting down a piece of

1471
01:29:47,320 --> 01:29:51,400
Speaker 2: archival like taking hours and hours and hours and costing

1472
01:29:51,479 --> 01:29:55,679
Speaker 2: maybe costing like you know, tens of thousands of dollars

1473
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:57,960
Speaker 2: to license. To be able to just sit down and

1474
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:02,479
Speaker 2: create it in thirty seconds incredible, Like I would love

1475
01:30:02,520 --> 01:30:05,400
Speaker 2: to be able to do that, but we're already shutting

1476
01:30:05,479 --> 01:30:07,920
Speaker 2: that down within the documentary world. There's like a code

1477
01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:10,759
Speaker 2: of ethics now around AI that's being kind of passed around,

1478
01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:13,680
Speaker 2: which I get it, I understand, but like part of

1479
01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:17,000
Speaker 2: me is like, oh, man, like I that's that's that's

1480
01:30:17,040 --> 01:30:18,640
Speaker 2: gonna make things so much easier.

1481
01:30:19,240 --> 01:30:22,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's what I you know, I think about

1482
01:30:22,439 --> 01:30:28,120
Speaker 1: this when you know, look, there's new technologies always create fear, right,

1483
01:30:28,160 --> 01:30:31,679
Speaker 1: there is a there's a so and and look AI

1484
01:30:31,960 --> 01:30:36,280
Speaker 1: uh AI optimists talk about this a lot, right, And

1485
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:39,880
Speaker 1: it's a fair counterpoint that you know, there's we're always

1486
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:43,479
Speaker 1: dystopian about a new technology, but it usually is is

1487
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:47,240
Speaker 1: more benign than we by the the actual implementation is

1488
01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:53,960
Speaker 1: a lot more benign than ever before. Why isn't that

1489
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:55,040
Speaker 1: going to be the case with AI?

1490
01:30:56,360 --> 01:30:58,559
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I think it. I think it will

1491
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:04,519
Speaker 2: be the case to a certain extent, right, But the

1492
01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:09,280
Speaker 2: problem is where where it becomes more dystopian is when

1493
01:31:09,280 --> 01:31:12,400
Speaker 2: you start to when you start to put AI into

1494
01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:18,160
Speaker 2: things like weapons, you know, guns, missiles, bombs, grenades, stuff

1495
01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:23,120
Speaker 2: like that, because it can be used and it is

1496
01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:26,800
Speaker 2: already being used in that degree, and you know, other

1497
01:31:26,840 --> 01:31:29,960
Speaker 2: things like social media not necessary and I can't necessarily

1498
01:31:30,120 --> 01:31:34,439
Speaker 2: like this. This AI is kind of perfect for defense.

1499
01:31:35,400 --> 01:31:38,200
Speaker 2: And that's where it gets really dark and dystopian.

1500
01:31:39,200 --> 01:31:42,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, I am sure, I'm speaking of that. I've been

1501
01:31:42,560 --> 01:31:45,120
Speaker 1: wondering why that we haven't seen a reboot of wargames,

1502
01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:49,759
Speaker 1: you know, the whole premise of wargames. The Matthew Broderick movie,

1503
01:31:49,800 --> 01:31:51,680
Speaker 1: which may have come out before you were born, So

1504
01:31:52,120 --> 01:31:56,280
Speaker 1: I don't have you, do you? So my apologize. I'm

1505
01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:59,519
Speaker 1: forty six, so okay, you're much closer, Okay then you

1506
01:31:59,560 --> 01:32:03,880
Speaker 1: were around when more games. You know, how have we

1507
01:32:03,960 --> 01:32:06,760
Speaker 1: not rebooted that movie with the with with the with

1508
01:32:06,800 --> 01:32:09,720
Speaker 1: the scary times that We're like that was a bit

1509
01:32:09,800 --> 01:32:13,559
Speaker 1: far fetched at the time, right, We couldn't really imagine

1510
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:15,439
Speaker 1: that there wouldn't be human elements to get in the

1511
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:15,880
Speaker 1: way of that.

1512
01:32:16,520 --> 01:32:21,960
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, I mean it's a good idea. Maybe I

1513
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:24,200
Speaker 2: need to get on get on that, get on pitching that.

1514
01:32:24,360 --> 01:32:29,400
Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah, speaking of uh, speaking of that,

1515
01:32:29,439 --> 01:32:32,000
Speaker 1: what is next for you? What are the next topics

1516
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:34,240
Speaker 1: that that are keeping you up at night that you

1517
01:32:34,280 --> 01:32:37,800
Speaker 1: think deserve deserve the documentary treatment? Oh?

1518
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:41,559
Speaker 2: Man, I mean I've got a couple of things that

1519
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:46,559
Speaker 2: I'm out there pitching right now. I'm pitching. I'm pitching

1520
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:49,519
Speaker 2: a project that I don't I don't want to. I

1521
01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:53,679
Speaker 2: don't want to reveal exactly what it is because it's

1522
01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:57,040
Speaker 2: such I can't believe nobody has done something on it.

1523
01:32:57,680 --> 01:32:58,519
Speaker 1: I know those feelings.

1524
01:32:58,600 --> 01:33:00,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's in the it's in the world of

1525
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:07,280
Speaker 2: personal injury law. Okay, And I think that is a

1526
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:15,840
Speaker 2: world that is ripe for documentary treatment, like we've only

1527
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:18,240
Speaker 2: really seen it, I think in better call Saul, Like,

1528
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:21,719
Speaker 2: I can't believe there hasn't been a documentary in that world.

1529
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:26,880
Speaker 2: It's a fascinating for a couple of reasons. Fascinating people, right,

1530
01:33:27,200 --> 01:33:31,519
Speaker 2: These lawyers are incredible characters, right.

1531
01:33:31,400 --> 01:33:34,639
Speaker 1: I Yeah, Look, I'm a sucker for a good sort

1532
01:33:34,680 --> 01:33:39,360
Speaker 1: of like you know these when you there's a few

1533
01:33:39,400 --> 01:33:41,880
Speaker 1: sort of lawyer books. Scott Drew and all those guys

1534
01:33:42,320 --> 01:33:46,120
Speaker 1: love to write about those lawyers, right, the ones that

1535
01:33:46,439 --> 01:33:50,280
Speaker 1: you know, frankly are the the working class lawyer. I

1536
01:33:50,280 --> 01:33:52,120
Speaker 1: don't know else to call them right where they've got

1537
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:54,639
Speaker 1: to just make a living one thousand bucks at a time.

1538
01:33:55,160 --> 01:33:59,040
Speaker 2: You Know what's really I think interesting and urgent about

1539
01:33:59,400 --> 01:34:02,320
Speaker 2: that top right now, too, is because our healthcare system

1540
01:34:02,400 --> 01:34:06,600
Speaker 2: is so incredibly broken that there are a lot of

1541
01:34:06,640 --> 01:34:12,760
Speaker 2: people who don't have healthcare, and so when the ship

1542
01:34:12,840 --> 01:34:15,760
Speaker 2: hits the fan, when something tragic happens, those are the

1543
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:19,519
Speaker 2: only people they can go to. Those are their heroes

1544
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:23,080
Speaker 2: are like are they're like local heroes. Yeah, And so

1545
01:34:24,200 --> 01:34:27,240
Speaker 2: on the one hand, they're seen as like these grifters.

1546
01:34:27,920 --> 01:34:30,760
Speaker 2: They're seen as these like con men. But on the

1547
01:34:30,800 --> 01:34:37,160
Speaker 2: other hand, in this terrible system that we're living in

1548
01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:39,840
Speaker 2: where healthcare is just just could not be any worse.

1549
01:34:39,920 --> 01:34:43,080
Speaker 2: I mean it is, it is like it.

1550
01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:45,920
Speaker 1: It's well, the system, the healthcare companies, the the system

1551
01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:48,280
Speaker 1: is designed to pay the least amount of money that

1552
01:34:48,320 --> 01:34:48,840
Speaker 1: they can pay.

1553
01:34:49,360 --> 01:34:52,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so these guys come into the fray and

1554
01:34:52,240 --> 01:34:56,240
Speaker 2: are like, I'm gonna bleed these healthcare these these healthcare

1555
01:34:56,280 --> 01:34:59,439
Speaker 2: companies dry. I'm gonna get you your money, right, And

1556
01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:03,000
Speaker 2: so there it's it's a great I think topic for

1557
01:35:03,160 --> 01:35:04,160
Speaker 2: documentary because.

1558
01:35:03,920 --> 01:35:06,760
Speaker 1: No, meanwhile, you know, I don't think Meanwhile, a week

1559
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:09,200
Speaker 1: doesn't go by where I don't have some company I

1560
01:35:09,280 --> 01:35:12,160
Speaker 1: have a relationship with to say, hey, we've changed our

1561
01:35:12,240 --> 01:35:15,880
Speaker 1: terms and conditions to now move to arbitration when there's

1562
01:35:15,920 --> 01:35:19,520
Speaker 1: an objection, right, which is like the amount of companies

1563
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:21,439
Speaker 1: and at some point I have a feeling government's got

1564
01:35:21,479 --> 01:35:24,200
Speaker 1: to step in here because the amount of companies that

1565
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:27,120
Speaker 1: now basically don't ever want to have to face the

1566
01:35:27,200 --> 01:35:34,040
Speaker 1: judicial system and want to make consumers automatically accept the

1567
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:38,719
Speaker 1: premise that arbitrations are only outlet if something goes wrong,

1568
01:35:39,600 --> 01:35:41,160
Speaker 1: feels a bit coercive.

1569
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:44,880
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean it's criminal. I think I think

1570
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:47,400
Speaker 2: these I think these people are criminals and so and

1571
01:35:47,520 --> 01:35:51,439
Speaker 2: that and that world. Like the personal injury lawyer at

1572
01:35:51,439 --> 01:35:51,839
Speaker 2: the building.

1573
01:35:51,840 --> 01:35:53,840
Speaker 1: You're one hundred percent right though about the characters. To me,

1574
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:56,880
Speaker 1: you're one hundred percent right on the characters. I'm I'm

1575
01:35:56,920 --> 01:35:59,400
Speaker 1: friendly with John Morgan, he's a sponsor at times of

1576
01:35:59,439 --> 01:36:03,200
Speaker 1: this podcast. He's sort of there. The characters in this

1577
01:36:03,320 --> 01:36:08,280
Speaker 1: world make would make a good movie, Yeah, really would.

1578
01:36:09,080 --> 01:36:12,559
Speaker 2: I've been talking to Ross Sealino of Selino and Barnes.

1579
01:36:13,240 --> 01:36:16,600
Speaker 2: He's kind of like the Lebron James of the industry.

1580
01:36:16,960 --> 01:36:20,040
Speaker 2: And then I've been talking to three guys named the

1581
01:36:20,120 --> 01:36:24,200
Speaker 2: Hammer in three different states. There's three Hammers.

1582
01:36:24,880 --> 01:36:27,360
Speaker 1: You know, if it wasn't for personal injury lawyers, there

1583
01:36:27,360 --> 01:36:32,720
Speaker 1: would be no no buyers of billboard advertising on interstates, right,

1584
01:36:32,840 --> 01:36:34,880
Speaker 1: Like that's you know, you go take a road trip

1585
01:36:34,920 --> 01:36:37,960
Speaker 1: anywhere around the country, go to Eddie Eddy interstate in

1586
01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:42,719
Speaker 1: the country, and there's basically religious groups or personal injury

1587
01:36:42,760 --> 01:36:46,560
Speaker 1: lawyers that that are now BUCkies that buy the billboard ads.

1588
01:36:46,840 --> 01:36:50,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. I talked to a guy called called himself the

1589
01:36:50,160 --> 01:36:54,559
Speaker 2: anti lawyer. He spends four hundred thousand dollars a month

1590
01:36:54,600 --> 01:36:55,920
Speaker 2: on Billboards.

1591
01:36:57,240 --> 01:37:00,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think you've you've sold me. I wait

1592
01:37:00,360 --> 01:37:04,759
Speaker 1: to You know, we could pre book the podcast right

1593
01:37:04,800 --> 01:37:07,719
Speaker 1: now the day after you premiere that one. That sounds

1594
01:37:07,720 --> 01:37:09,280
Speaker 1: like a lot of fun. What else on your radar?

1595
01:37:09,360 --> 01:37:10,479
Speaker 1: Anything more in the tech world.

1596
01:37:12,280 --> 01:37:13,640
Speaker 2: I think I'm going to take a little bit of

1597
01:37:13,680 --> 01:37:15,120
Speaker 2: a break from the tech world.

1598
01:37:17,040 --> 01:37:19,360
Speaker 1: How long did this take of your time? How much

1599
01:37:19,400 --> 01:37:22,559
Speaker 1: of this was this? An eighteen month? Two years?

1600
01:37:22,920 --> 01:37:25,479
Speaker 2: Eighteen months? Yeah, it was about eighteen months. It was

1601
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:28,720
Speaker 2: a quick turnaround because we knew that, like, there was

1602
01:37:28,840 --> 01:37:31,720
Speaker 2: urgency in getting the story out. There's a lot of

1603
01:37:31,720 --> 01:37:35,200
Speaker 2: people working on AI documentaries. I think we're pretty much

1604
01:37:35,240 --> 01:37:39,559
Speaker 2: the first to come out, and you know, it's an

1605
01:37:39,640 --> 01:37:43,240
Speaker 2: urgent topic that people desperately want to want answers to

1606
01:37:43,400 --> 01:37:46,000
Speaker 2: and want to talk about. So we pushed this thing

1607
01:37:46,040 --> 01:37:50,320
Speaker 2: out pretty quickly and premiered A south By Southwest and

1608
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:52,320
Speaker 2: last last March.

1609
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:55,639
Speaker 1: Well, look, I think the best part of this movie

1610
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:58,120
Speaker 1: is just this. It's supposed to spark a conversation, it's

1611
01:37:58,120 --> 01:38:01,719
Speaker 1: supposed to spark questions, and you know, if you smoke

1612
01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:04,080
Speaker 1: out the leaders to talk about it. I mean, I

1613
01:38:04,120 --> 01:38:07,160
Speaker 1: feel like, did you talk with Jeffrey Hinton, right, who's

1614
01:38:07,200 --> 01:38:10,200
Speaker 1: sort of the godfather of AI who warns people about AI.

1615
01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:13,720
Speaker 2: So I reached out to him. I did get in

1616
01:38:13,800 --> 01:38:20,640
Speaker 2: touch with him, and he's overseas taking us about it,

1617
01:38:20,840 --> 01:38:22,960
Speaker 2: working on something or other. But he did actually his

1618
01:38:23,200 --> 01:38:25,240
Speaker 2: emails online and he actually did respond to me.

1619
01:38:27,600 --> 01:38:32,000
Speaker 1: Well, it's congratulations on it. And you know, I hope

1620
01:38:32,040 --> 01:38:33,920
Speaker 1: you keep track of the type of Q and a's

1621
01:38:33,960 --> 01:38:36,280
Speaker 1: that you have. In some ways there might be I'm

1622
01:38:36,280 --> 01:38:38,920
Speaker 1: not saying build a large language model from all of

1623
01:38:38,920 --> 01:38:43,320
Speaker 1: the Q and a's, but the AM I would love

1624
01:38:43,400 --> 01:38:47,519
Speaker 1: to see sort of after you've done this the collection,

1625
01:38:48,160 --> 01:38:52,080
Speaker 1: because I think you will have a potential resource of

1626
01:38:52,960 --> 01:38:57,800
Speaker 1: concerns that maybe our elected leaders should be aware of.

1627
01:38:58,560 --> 01:39:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good point. I'm definitely filming them all.

1628
01:39:01,280 --> 01:39:05,759
Speaker 2: And you know, the question is do our elected leaders

1629
01:39:05,920 --> 01:39:09,120
Speaker 2: care enough to even want to hear it?

1630
01:39:10,200 --> 01:39:12,880
Speaker 1: You know, I will always say this about the elected leaders.

1631
01:39:12,880 --> 01:39:17,000
Speaker 1: They care when their voters care, right right on. So

1632
01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:21,120
Speaker 1: your job is to make the voters care. And look,

1633
01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:24,720
Speaker 1: you did what a good educator should do. You also

1634
01:39:24,800 --> 01:39:26,920
Speaker 1: figured out how to entertain right at the end of

1635
01:39:26,960 --> 01:39:30,000
Speaker 1: the day. We're all educators in this media business if

1636
01:39:30,000 --> 01:39:31,920
Speaker 1: you're doing it right, and you've got to get people

1637
01:39:31,960 --> 01:39:34,720
Speaker 1: to pay attention. And this is an entertaining film, and

1638
01:39:34,760 --> 01:39:36,760
Speaker 1: you made people pay attention. Congratulations.

1639
01:39:37,000 --> 01:39:39,679
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you very much. I appreciate that, all.

1640
01:39:39,640 --> 01:39:43,720
Speaker 1: Right, brother. And you're not a Phillies fan. We were

1641
01:39:43,720 --> 01:39:45,760
Speaker 1: talking about this pre tape, right am I am I

1642
01:39:45,800 --> 01:39:47,720
Speaker 1: supposed to take away that you are a Phillies fan

1643
01:39:47,800 --> 01:39:49,360
Speaker 1: or not a Phillies fan, not.

1644
01:39:49,400 --> 01:39:53,439
Speaker 2: A Phillies fan, a Dodgers fan. But I'm a collector

1645
01:39:53,479 --> 01:39:58,200
Speaker 2: of vintage jerseys. And I figured somebody someone watching this

1646
01:39:58,240 --> 01:40:02,840
Speaker 2: podcast will appreciate the Mike the Michael Jack Schmidt vintage

1647
01:40:03,000 --> 01:40:03,839
Speaker 2: Phillies jersey.

1648
01:40:04,040 --> 01:40:06,719
Speaker 1: It's the best of all the uniforms of the Phillies

1649
01:40:06,760 --> 01:40:09,640
Speaker 1: that when they're doing the powder blue. It's funny how

1650
01:40:09,720 --> 01:40:11,479
Speaker 1: much the powder blue, right, it's the best of the

1651
01:40:11,560 --> 01:40:15,880
Speaker 1: Chargers uniforms. It's the best that powder blue just does

1652
01:40:15,880 --> 01:40:19,559
Speaker 1: well on TV. Dodgers, Evil Empire, or just smarter than

1653
01:40:19,600 --> 01:40:20,240
Speaker 1: everybody else.

1654
01:40:20,920 --> 01:40:24,639
Speaker 2: Oh, definitely smarter than everybody else. I mean, there's there's

1655
01:40:24,680 --> 01:40:29,960
Speaker 2: also you know, I mean, look, Otani is greatest of

1656
01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:35,040
Speaker 2: all time. Sorry, like it's just it's otani. Look it is.

1657
01:40:36,120 --> 01:40:37,680
Speaker 1: It's kind of boring. We don't even get to have

1658
01:40:37,680 --> 01:40:41,120
Speaker 1: a debate. It's not even close. Like it's like, oh yeah,

1659
01:40:41,360 --> 01:40:46,280
Speaker 1: and okay, next question. Like you know, the beauty of

1660
01:40:46,280 --> 01:40:49,040
Speaker 1: sports is supposed to disagree, and we can't disagree right

1661
01:40:49,080 --> 01:40:49,719
Speaker 1: now in baseball.

1662
01:40:50,280 --> 01:40:54,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean all the evil empire, money stuff, politics,

1663
01:40:55,520 --> 01:40:59,559
Speaker 2: you know, inner baseball politics, none of that. Take that

1664
01:40:59,600 --> 01:41:02,839
Speaker 2: all out of conversation. It's just we have otani. Sorry,

1665
01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:04,000
Speaker 2: Like that's.

1666
01:41:03,800 --> 01:41:08,000
Speaker 1: It, right, and everything else falls into place. Adam, good

1667
01:41:08,080 --> 01:41:10,559
Speaker 1: luck on the tour. Be safe out there. And like

1668
01:41:10,640 --> 01:41:13,439
Speaker 1: I said, I hope document all your questions because I

1669
01:41:13,479 --> 01:41:15,880
Speaker 1: think there's going to be that's going to be a

1670
01:41:16,000 --> 01:41:17,920
Speaker 1: rich resource if you can figure out how to put

1671
01:41:17,960 --> 01:41:18,360
Speaker 1: it to use.

1672
01:41:19,080 --> 01:41:21,519
Speaker 2: We'll do. Thank you, all right, my friend, appreciate it.

1673
01:41:29,360 --> 01:41:30,960
Speaker 1: I'll take a look at the movie. Like I said,

1674
01:41:31,040 --> 01:41:34,880
Speaker 1: it's Scott as he said, there's comedic elements to it,

1675
01:41:35,439 --> 01:41:38,280
Speaker 1: but understanding the ease with which people can be deep

1676
01:41:38,280 --> 01:41:40,360
Speaker 1: faked right now, I mean, you can see we have

1677
01:41:40,680 --> 01:41:44,719
Speaker 1: so many laws and regulations that need to be passed

1678
01:41:44,760 --> 01:41:47,920
Speaker 1: to protect the rest of us that we haven't remotely

1679
01:41:47,960 --> 01:41:51,400
Speaker 1: thought about. I mean, look, as the opening of this

1680
01:41:51,439 --> 01:41:53,320
Speaker 1: podcast will tell you, we've got a lot of big

1681
01:41:53,320 --> 01:41:56,400
Speaker 1: fish to fry. AI It's unfortunately just one of them,

1682
01:41:56,439 --> 01:41:58,920
Speaker 1: and it's not even the biggest fish we're facing. But

1683
01:41:59,080 --> 01:42:01,639
Speaker 1: that's what I took away from this from this film

1684
01:42:02,040 --> 01:42:05,479
Speaker 1: is how much how much of my rights, all of

1685
01:42:05,479 --> 01:42:09,640
Speaker 1: our rights are being left unprotected right now and in

1686
01:42:09,680 --> 01:42:13,519
Speaker 1: the hands of a handful of tech titans. We did

1687
01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:15,760
Speaker 1: this once, How well did that work out? Are we

1688
01:42:15,840 --> 01:42:19,240
Speaker 1: really going to allow this to happen again? And before

1689
01:42:19,280 --> 01:42:23,000
Speaker 1: I go to the time machine today, which frankly, like

1690
01:42:23,040 --> 01:42:27,519
Speaker 1: I said, it's about bloody Sunday, and I know that

1691
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:30,519
Speaker 1: invokes some of you may think, which where's he going?

1692
01:42:31,160 --> 01:42:33,160
Speaker 1: Is he staying in the Western Hemisphere? Is he going

1693
01:42:34,120 --> 01:42:38,080
Speaker 1: to Europe? Before I get to it, I do think

1694
01:42:38,080 --> 01:42:41,519
Speaker 1: it's interesting. One thing I didn't do the top is

1695
01:42:41,560 --> 01:42:46,360
Speaker 1: sort of what is the near term political fallowout here?

1696
01:42:47,400 --> 01:42:49,559
Speaker 1: And I thought i'd quickly sort of get at the

1697
01:42:49,600 --> 01:42:52,200
Speaker 1: look fallow. Number one is this government shutting down right

1698
01:42:52,560 --> 01:42:57,040
Speaker 1: any sort of You know, there is no more distinction

1699
01:42:57,160 --> 01:42:58,960
Speaker 1: between those that want to abolish ICE and those that

1700
01:42:59,000 --> 01:43:02,240
Speaker 1: want to reform ICE. Right now, there is no interest

1701
01:43:02,280 --> 01:43:04,559
Speaker 1: in funding any part of vice. You may have a

1702
01:43:04,600 --> 01:43:07,479
Speaker 1: Democratic party that is in favor of the idea of

1703
01:43:07,520 --> 01:43:12,240
Speaker 1: having an immigration enforcement law agency, but not under the

1704
01:43:12,320 --> 01:43:16,800
Speaker 1: leadership of Christino. What's fascinating to me on the politics

1705
01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:19,000
Speaker 1: side here is that you start to see you're seeing

1706
01:43:19,880 --> 01:43:26,040
Speaker 1: more elected Republicans get some distance from what Trump's DHS

1707
01:43:26,240 --> 01:43:30,120
Speaker 1: is doing. Here you have Kevin Stitt, the governor of Oklahoma,

1708
01:43:30,560 --> 01:43:32,800
Speaker 1: put out a joint statement, so he went on the

1709
01:43:32,840 --> 01:43:35,559
Speaker 1: record with the government, with the demo, with the vice

1710
01:43:35,640 --> 01:43:38,760
Speaker 1: chair of the NNGA National gover Association. Kevin Stitt is

1711
01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:42,240
Speaker 1: the chair, Wes Moore is the vice chair. This is

1712
01:43:42,280 --> 01:43:44,919
Speaker 1: something that every year rotates between a Democrat and a Republican.

1713
01:43:44,920 --> 01:43:47,800
Speaker 1: This is a ray. That's why there's a Republican that's chaired.

1714
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:50,880
Speaker 1: This will rotate in a year, and whoever the vice

1715
01:43:50,960 --> 01:43:52,800
Speaker 1: chair is becomes the chair. And there's this whole thing.

1716
01:43:53,360 --> 01:43:57,360
Speaker 1: It's a very much designed to be a bipartisan organization.

1717
01:43:57,760 --> 01:43:59,680
Speaker 1: And they put out a statement that essentially says the

1718
01:43:59,680 --> 01:44:03,080
Speaker 1: federal government needs to let cannot trample on the rights

1719
01:44:03,120 --> 01:44:07,080
Speaker 1: of this of state governments. He didn't quite word it,

1720
01:44:07,120 --> 01:44:11,120
Speaker 1: didn't use the word trample. It was definitely carefully worded,

1721
01:44:12,800 --> 01:44:18,120
Speaker 1: but it frankly, you know, before this month, I would

1722
01:44:18,120 --> 01:44:21,599
Speaker 1: assume most conservative governors would have been able to side

1723
01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:23,400
Speaker 1: with the statement that the NNGA put out, which is

1724
01:44:23,439 --> 01:44:26,200
Speaker 1: that the federal government doesn't override states the right of

1725
01:44:26,400 --> 01:44:28,880
Speaker 1: state governments to find out what's happening to their citizens

1726
01:44:28,880 --> 01:44:32,200
Speaker 1: in their state, so it calls for a joint investigation.

1727
01:44:32,240 --> 01:44:34,120
Speaker 1: You got a guy like Bill Cassidy, who, of course

1728
01:44:34,320 --> 01:44:37,080
Speaker 1: may feel braver speaking out against Trump administration now that

1729
01:44:37,120 --> 01:44:40,160
Speaker 1: Donald Trump has endorsed a primary opponent, but he has

1730
01:44:40,160 --> 01:44:43,639
Speaker 1: said that there is credibility issues with DHS and ICE

1731
01:44:44,200 --> 01:44:49,040
Speaker 1: and then the punditry class. And now a member of

1732
01:44:49,080 --> 01:44:53,840
Speaker 1: the of the have said punditry class is is Margie

1733
01:44:53,880 --> 01:44:56,599
Speaker 1: Taylor Green. She's been out of Congress now twenty days.

1734
01:44:57,280 --> 01:44:59,439
Speaker 1: I thought her statement and I'm going to read I'm

1735
01:44:59,439 --> 01:45:01,200
Speaker 1: want to read it here. I thought it was interesting

1736
01:45:01,640 --> 01:45:06,200
Speaker 1: because she makes the small C conservative point that I've

1737
01:45:06,240 --> 01:45:09,479
Speaker 1: been making quite a bit. Marjorie Taylor Green writes, I

1738
01:45:09,479 --> 01:45:12,760
Speaker 1: impeach Biden, Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorchis. Those were

1739
01:45:12,760 --> 01:45:14,800
Speaker 1: my articles of impeachment that passed in the House of

1740
01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:19,120
Speaker 1: Representatives I unapologetically believe in border security and deporting criminal

1741
01:45:19,160 --> 01:45:22,479
Speaker 1: illegal aliens, and I support law enforcement. However, I also

1742
01:45:22,600 --> 01:45:26,320
Speaker 1: unapologetically support the Second Amendment. Legally carrying a firearm is

1743
01:45:26,360 --> 01:45:29,560
Speaker 1: not the same as brandishing a firearm. I support American's

1744
01:45:29,600 --> 01:45:33,599
Speaker 1: First and Fourth Amendment rights. There's nothing wrong with legally

1745
01:45:33,640 --> 01:45:37,840
Speaker 1: peacefully protesting and videoing MAGA consider it like this, and

1746
01:45:37,920 --> 01:45:40,040
Speaker 1: then she adds, we lost our minds when we watch

1747
01:45:40,080 --> 01:45:44,240
Speaker 1: Biden's FBI tracked down and aggressively carry out home invasions,

1748
01:45:44,439 --> 01:45:48,200
Speaker 1: her words, and arrest on peaceful J sixers who walked

1749
01:45:48,200 --> 01:45:53,120
Speaker 1: in the Capitol through open doors. Imagining if one of

1750
01:45:53,160 --> 01:45:56,200
Speaker 1: our MAGA independent journalists or even just a MAGA supporter

1751
01:45:56,760 --> 01:46:00,400
Speaker 1: stood in the street outside a J sixer's house while

1752
01:46:00,400 --> 01:46:04,719
Speaker 1: Biden's FBI carried out a law enforcement operation home invasion

1753
01:46:04,720 --> 01:46:09,519
Speaker 1: and arrest. Then Biden's FBI guys goes to the MAGA

1754
01:46:09,520 --> 01:46:11,760
Speaker 1: guy videoing at all and shoves a woman with him

1755
01:46:11,920 --> 01:46:14,800
Speaker 1: to the ground and sprays them with bear spray. Then

1756
01:46:14,840 --> 01:46:16,840
Speaker 1: throws the MAGA guy to the ground as Maga guy

1757
01:46:17,200 --> 01:46:19,040
Speaker 1: was trying to help the woman off the ground. Then

1758
01:46:19,080 --> 01:46:22,160
Speaker 1: Biden's FBI beats MAGA guy on the ground, disarms Mega

1759
01:46:22,160 --> 01:46:24,400
Speaker 1: guy and then shoots him dead. What would have been

1760
01:46:24,439 --> 01:46:28,479
Speaker 1: our reaction in her hypothetical scenario. This is a hypothetical scenario.

1761
01:46:28,479 --> 01:46:32,479
Speaker 1: She pays because guess what, this didn't happen under Biden's FBI. Right, Yes,

1762
01:46:32,560 --> 01:46:35,320
Speaker 1: they did go and arrest people on January sixth, and

1763
01:46:35,360 --> 01:46:36,760
Speaker 1: not all of you are going to agree to the

1764
01:46:36,840 --> 01:46:39,320
Speaker 1: language she used to describe January six or those that

1765
01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:47,240
Speaker 1: were arrested under lawfully issued subpoenas and indictments. But she

1766
01:46:47,320 --> 01:46:50,320
Speaker 1: has a point here. What would have been the reaction

1767
01:46:50,560 --> 01:46:55,000
Speaker 1: had those FBI agents took a citizen who decided to

1768
01:46:55,160 --> 01:46:58,080
Speaker 1: videotape everything that was happening. So then she both sides

1769
01:46:58,080 --> 01:46:59,479
Speaker 1: it here, she says, both sides need to take off

1770
01:46:59,520 --> 01:47:02,120
Speaker 1: their political blinders. You are all being incited into civil war.

1771
01:47:02,200 --> 01:47:03,960
Speaker 1: Yet none of it solves any of the real problems

1772
01:47:03,960 --> 01:47:06,600
Speaker 1: that we all face, and tragically, people are dying. So

1773
01:47:06,680 --> 01:47:09,639
Speaker 1: that's the reaction from Marjorie Taylor Green. And you can say, well,

1774
01:47:09,640 --> 01:47:11,640
Speaker 1: she's already been breaking from Trump, but she does not

1775
01:47:11,680 --> 01:47:16,519
Speaker 1: break from her own ideology. She is seeing things as

1776
01:47:16,520 --> 01:47:21,120
Speaker 1: a small sea conservative And a memo to my conservative

1777
01:47:21,120 --> 01:47:24,880
Speaker 1: friends who say they're conservative and support this administration. This

1778
01:47:24,960 --> 01:47:30,960
Speaker 1: administration is the furthest thing away from traditional conservatism. It's

1779
01:47:31,000 --> 01:47:35,760
Speaker 1: not even close, couldn't be further. That's why there's you know,

1780
01:47:35,800 --> 01:47:40,400
Speaker 1: and I follow, I follow all. I look, I am

1781
01:47:40,560 --> 01:47:44,400
Speaker 1: constantly consuming both MAGA conservatism. So the crazy guys like

1782
01:47:44,479 --> 01:47:46,760
Speaker 1: Roger Stone, who, by the way, is going on his

1783
01:47:46,880 --> 01:47:50,639
Speaker 1: radio show advocating invoking the Insurrection Act, and that should

1784
01:47:50,680 --> 01:47:54,480
Speaker 1: concern us. There are a few people in the president's

1785
01:47:54,479 --> 01:47:58,240
Speaker 1: circle advocating us, and he is of weak mind at

1786
01:47:58,240 --> 01:48:03,400
Speaker 1: the moment. There are people that are trying really hard

1787
01:48:03,439 --> 01:48:06,680
Speaker 1: to keep him from doing the craziest shit. There may

1788
01:48:06,680 --> 01:48:08,759
Speaker 1: not be enough people doing it, but there are people

1789
01:48:08,800 --> 01:48:12,120
Speaker 1: trying to do that, right, Even kat I always love it.

1790
01:48:12,160 --> 01:48:15,200
Speaker 1: My favorite attempt at this is like Kevin Stitt went

1791
01:48:15,240 --> 01:48:16,720
Speaker 1: on one of the Sunday shows and he said, you know,

1792
01:48:16,720 --> 01:48:19,759
Speaker 1: he's getting the president's getting bad advice. You know, nobody

1793
01:48:19,800 --> 01:48:23,400
Speaker 1: ever wants to criticize Donald Trump. It's his advisors. Well

1794
01:48:23,400 --> 01:48:26,040
Speaker 1: which advisor he wants to say, Stephen Miller, but he

1795
01:48:26,040 --> 01:48:28,639
Speaker 1: can't bring himself to stay Stephen Miller. But it's clear

1796
01:48:28,680 --> 01:48:31,640
Speaker 1: that's what Kevin Stitt is saying. But The point is

1797
01:48:31,960 --> 01:48:35,719
Speaker 1: this is chipping away, This is becoming a massive political problem.

1798
01:48:35,800 --> 01:48:39,160
Speaker 1: There are true libertarian conservatives who would never vote for

1799
01:48:39,200 --> 01:48:42,519
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris, would never vote for a Democrat. That cannot

1800
01:48:42,560 --> 01:48:46,160
Speaker 1: sit here in stomach what Donald Trump is doing and

1801
01:48:46,200 --> 01:48:49,599
Speaker 1: what this administration is doing trampling on the Bill of Rights,

1802
01:48:49,880 --> 01:48:52,240
Speaker 1: I mean just up and down the Bill of Rights,

1803
01:48:52,760 --> 01:48:57,320
Speaker 1: full on trampling. So this is a real political impact.

1804
01:48:57,360 --> 01:49:00,919
Speaker 1: This is a political disaster. Look, it is a disaster

1805
01:49:01,040 --> 01:49:03,280
Speaker 1: for all of us. But if you want to look

1806
01:49:03,320 --> 01:49:06,360
Speaker 1: at it just through the prism of politics, it's bad.

1807
01:49:06,439 --> 01:49:09,920
Speaker 1: And everybody knows it's bad, even those that attempt to

1808
01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:13,559
Speaker 1: defend some part of what they're doing. Eric Erickson somebody

1809
01:49:13,560 --> 01:49:16,440
Speaker 1: I had known a long time. He's a very decent individual.

1810
01:49:16,560 --> 01:49:21,760
Speaker 1: We don't agree on everything, and he's somebody that sort

1811
01:49:21,800 --> 01:49:25,879
Speaker 1: of tries really hard to have a conversation with mega

1812
01:49:26,240 --> 01:49:29,599
Speaker 1: keeps one foot in the sort of the the I'd say,

1813
01:49:29,680 --> 01:49:34,200
Speaker 1: i'd call him a skeptical skeptic of Trump. So it's

1814
01:49:34,240 --> 01:49:40,120
Speaker 1: interesting he is not ready to say DHS shouldn't be

1815
01:49:40,160 --> 01:49:47,479
Speaker 1: in Minneapolis, but he is acknowledging that DHS is making

1816
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:50,360
Speaker 1: stuff up and they have to stop doing that. So

1817
01:49:50,400 --> 01:49:52,880
Speaker 1: he puts out this one tweet, which I think, again,

1818
01:49:52,960 --> 01:49:55,960
Speaker 1: this is I think it's important to highlight this because

1819
01:49:55,960 --> 01:49:59,439
Speaker 1: this is how various folks are trying to get to

1820
01:49:59,600 --> 01:50:02,519
Speaker 1: the press it in different ways to try to let

1821
01:50:02,560 --> 01:50:06,479
Speaker 1: him understand this is a political disaster. So he wants

1822
01:50:06,520 --> 01:50:11,599
Speaker 1: to blame this on democratic policies and the sanctuary city policies.

1823
01:50:11,640 --> 01:50:14,519
Speaker 1: He says, we are He says he believed the only

1824
01:50:14,560 --> 01:50:17,000
Speaker 1: message that they should be saying is the following. We

1825
01:50:17,040 --> 01:50:18,680
Speaker 1: are at this point because the state of Minnesota and

1826
01:50:18,720 --> 01:50:21,920
Speaker 1: the city of Minneapolis continue to harbor illegal aliens. The

1827
01:50:21,960 --> 01:50:24,960
Speaker 1: American people want to port it. The deaths of American

1828
01:50:25,040 --> 01:50:27,320
Speaker 1: citizens are tragic and made more tragic by the governor

1829
01:50:27,360 --> 01:50:29,280
Speaker 1: and mayor whipping activists into a frenzy to stop the

1830
01:50:29,280 --> 01:50:32,520
Speaker 1: federal government from enforcing the laws of Minnesota and Minneapolis

1831
01:50:33,160 --> 01:50:36,880
Speaker 1: that they refuse to enforce. Neither Misgod nor mister Preddi

1832
01:50:37,000 --> 01:50:38,920
Speaker 1: would be dead and the Border Patrol would not be

1833
01:50:39,000 --> 01:50:41,880
Speaker 1: roaming the streets of Minnesota if the state government cooperated

1834
01:50:41,920 --> 01:50:45,040
Speaker 1: with the federal government's efforts to deport illegal aliens. We

1835
01:50:45,080 --> 01:50:47,160
Speaker 1: will not cease enforcement of federal law because of a

1836
01:50:47,240 --> 01:50:51,920
Speaker 1: mob so that's his way of defending what they're doing.

1837
01:50:51,960 --> 01:50:55,559
Speaker 1: And then because he can't, he knows what they're doing

1838
01:50:55,640 --> 01:51:00,000
Speaker 1: is wrong. He also then adds this, he said he believed,

1839
01:51:00,600 --> 01:51:02,679
Speaker 1: and he's trying to separate the blame. What it really

1840
01:51:02,720 --> 01:51:04,400
Speaker 1: is is he's trying to give an off ramp to

1841
01:51:04,400 --> 01:51:09,120
Speaker 1: the west wing, which is maybe you can stop the

1842
01:51:09,160 --> 01:51:12,320
Speaker 1: bleeding here literally and figuratively if you do the following,

1843
01:51:12,760 --> 01:51:14,519
Speaker 1: And then he writes this, a lot of what is

1844
01:51:14,560 --> 01:51:18,519
Speaker 1: happening now is Christinohm marginalized Tom Holman, the guy who

1845
01:51:18,840 --> 01:51:21,200
Speaker 1: took that fifty grand bag of cash, so is kind

1846
01:51:21,240 --> 01:51:27,080
Speaker 1: of questionable legitimacy on his own. But I will tell

1847
01:51:27,080 --> 01:51:29,920
Speaker 1: you plenty of people Ali may Orchis and Jay Johnson

1848
01:51:29,960 --> 01:51:33,040
Speaker 1: will tell you Tom Holman very good things about Tom Holman,

1849
01:51:33,080 --> 01:51:35,800
Speaker 1: that he is a professional first who's allowed himself to

1850
01:51:35,840 --> 01:51:38,320
Speaker 1: be whipped up into a political frenzy a bit. But

1851
01:51:38,479 --> 01:51:41,960
Speaker 1: Eric Erickson is arguing that Tom Holman not being marginalized

1852
01:51:42,040 --> 01:51:44,439
Speaker 1: is why we're here, and that the head of Border Patrol,

1853
01:51:44,720 --> 01:51:51,040
Speaker 1: because because Christine Oh prioritize deportation of excuse me, is

1854
01:51:51,080 --> 01:51:53,000
Speaker 1: he right? He goes a marginalized Tom Holman and the

1855
01:51:53,000 --> 01:51:55,840
Speaker 1: head of Border Patrol because those two prioritized deportations of

1856
01:51:55,840 --> 01:51:59,200
Speaker 1: criminals and gang menger gang members. Eric Erickson puts the

1857
01:51:59,200 --> 01:52:02,520
Speaker 1: blame on Christy Noh and Corey Lewandowski, her political advisor,

1858
01:52:02,920 --> 01:52:05,920
Speaker 1: who has some sort of status as a as a

1859
01:52:06,160 --> 01:52:09,240
Speaker 1: federal government worker. And he said no, and Lewandowski wanted

1860
01:52:09,280 --> 01:52:14,000
Speaker 1: broad public roundups without prioritizing the illegal aliens. They bypassed

1861
01:52:14,040 --> 01:52:16,040
Speaker 1: home and in the head of Border Patrol and elevated

1862
01:52:16,240 --> 01:52:19,680
Speaker 1: Greg Bovino because they want the public confrontations and displays.

1863
01:52:20,360 --> 01:52:22,640
Speaker 1: It's a feature, not a bug. Folks to put this

1864
01:52:22,720 --> 01:52:25,679
Speaker 1: sort of this Greg Bovino, he's some sort of want

1865
01:52:25,680 --> 01:52:27,880
Speaker 1: to be I mean, he comes across as some sort

1866
01:52:27,880 --> 01:52:31,160
Speaker 1: of like like he came out of the movie The Matrix,

1867
01:52:32,520 --> 01:52:34,759
Speaker 1: you know, him and his long leather coat. Some people

1868
01:52:34,760 --> 01:52:37,559
Speaker 1: want to say he's a Nazi, like I'm always you know,

1869
01:52:37,760 --> 01:52:39,880
Speaker 1: I'm trying not to go down that road because once

1870
01:52:39,880 --> 01:52:42,000
Speaker 1: you go down that road, you don't unring the bell.

1871
01:52:43,040 --> 01:52:46,200
Speaker 1: But the guy clearly is trying to invoke violence in

1872
01:52:46,200 --> 01:52:49,519
Speaker 1: the way he dresses. But it's like video game violence.

1873
01:52:49,560 --> 01:52:52,960
Speaker 1: It's stupid violence. It's matrix violence, right, It's ridiculous. Fires,

1874
01:52:54,560 --> 01:52:57,200
Speaker 1: Erickson goes on, and that's not the progressive press recording this,

1875
01:52:57,400 --> 01:53:00,520
Speaker 1: that's the conservative Fox News New York Post in Washington Examiner,

1876
01:53:02,160 --> 01:53:05,080
Speaker 1: and he said, it's not just Tim Walls and Jacob

1877
01:53:05,080 --> 01:53:07,559
Speaker 1: Privee driving tensions. It is a policy choice made by

1878
01:53:07,600 --> 01:53:09,960
Speaker 1: the Secretary of Olandsecurity and those around her because they

1879
01:53:09,960 --> 01:53:13,120
Speaker 1: thought it would make for great coverage. The point is, look,

1880
01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:19,760
Speaker 1: Eric Herritson wants to defend the policy. It's hard to

1881
01:53:19,800 --> 01:53:23,200
Speaker 1: defend this policy when the people implementing the policy have

1882
01:53:23,360 --> 01:53:27,080
Speaker 1: no regard for the Constitution. This is no longer about

1883
01:53:27,320 --> 01:53:31,280
Speaker 1: the policy. This is about the use of force and

1884
01:53:31,320 --> 01:53:35,280
Speaker 1: the Constitution, and DHS has violated all of it. But

1885
01:53:35,400 --> 01:53:40,519
Speaker 1: the bigger happening here is that as I sort of,

1886
01:53:40,640 --> 01:53:43,000
Speaker 1: as I wrote two months ago on my sub stack,

1887
01:53:44,640 --> 01:53:46,320
Speaker 1: I know I'm gonna pull a muscle padding myself on

1888
01:53:46,360 --> 01:53:50,360
Speaker 1: the back. This coalition that Trump put together is fracturing. Well,

1889
01:53:50,439 --> 01:53:54,320
Speaker 1: it is breaking left and right, and he is And look,

1890
01:53:54,400 --> 01:53:56,439
Speaker 1: and I know you some of you follow Eric Erks

1891
01:53:56,479 --> 01:53:59,200
Speaker 1: are like, well, he's bolted on Trump and come back before. Yeah,

1892
01:53:59,200 --> 01:54:02,000
Speaker 1: because he's a conserved and he doesn't want to. He's

1893
01:54:02,040 --> 01:54:04,720
Speaker 1: not crazy about you know, just because you know, and

1894
01:54:04,720 --> 01:54:09,200
Speaker 1: this is what liberals have to sort of accept. If

1895
01:54:09,240 --> 01:54:14,840
Speaker 1: you find a conservative critic of Trump, don't then criticize them.

1896
01:54:14,840 --> 01:54:16,759
Speaker 1: If they if they turn out not ready to vote

1897
01:54:16,880 --> 01:54:20,519
Speaker 1: for liberals, they may not, okay, But the point is

1898
01:54:20,520 --> 01:54:25,439
Speaker 1: that these folks are gettable. If you go out, if

1899
01:54:25,439 --> 01:54:31,480
Speaker 1: you tackle this from a bit more of a dispassionate

1900
01:54:31,680 --> 01:54:36,080
Speaker 1: rule of law, ground yourself in the Constitution. But what

1901
01:54:36,200 --> 01:54:41,400
Speaker 1: is important here is that no Republicans want it. There

1902
01:54:41,400 --> 01:54:44,240
Speaker 1: are very few Republicans. There's a hand there's a handful

1903
01:54:44,320 --> 01:54:47,360
Speaker 1: who only care about the thirty five percent that seem

1904
01:54:47,440 --> 01:54:49,840
Speaker 1: to be okay with this behavior, because as we see,

1905
01:54:49,920 --> 01:54:52,400
Speaker 1: there's a consistent and the number keeps showing up as

1906
01:54:52,480 --> 01:54:54,760
Speaker 1: thirty four to thirty five percent. Now you've got to

1907
01:54:54,800 --> 01:54:58,400
Speaker 1: trust that it's ice are the good guys. Everybody else

1908
01:54:58,480 --> 01:55:01,080
Speaker 1: is the bad guys, etcetera, etcetera. So that is your

1909
01:55:01,160 --> 01:55:04,200
Speaker 1: your core you see there that you know is isis

1910
01:55:04,200 --> 01:55:07,680
Speaker 1: behavior justified? It's always about thirty five percent. But the

1911
01:55:07,760 --> 01:55:10,160
Speaker 1: problem is that's not a winning coalition for the right.

1912
01:55:10,720 --> 01:55:12,680
Speaker 1: All they have left is that thirty five percent, And

1913
01:55:12,720 --> 01:55:14,880
Speaker 1: there are some that are only going to worry about

1914
01:55:14,920 --> 01:55:16,640
Speaker 1: that thirty five percent because thats all they have to

1915
01:55:16,640 --> 01:55:20,560
Speaker 1: worry about, is a primer. But anybody at all dealing

1916
01:55:20,600 --> 01:55:25,440
Speaker 1: with swing voters is suddenly realizing this is wildly unpopular

1917
01:55:26,680 --> 01:55:37,600
Speaker 1: and terrible politics, let alone terrible for the country. All right,

1918
01:55:37,640 --> 01:55:48,040
Speaker 1: And with that it's time for the podcast time Machine. So,

1919
01:55:48,080 --> 01:55:50,080
Speaker 1: as you know, every week in this segment, I like

1920
01:55:50,120 --> 01:55:53,120
Speaker 1: to step back to this week in history, and this

1921
01:55:53,160 --> 01:55:56,440
Speaker 1: week includes one of those phrases that carries multiple meanings

1922
01:55:57,080 --> 01:55:59,400
Speaker 1: depending on who you are and when you came of age.

1923
01:56:00,080 --> 01:56:02,960
Speaker 1: For some Americans, bloody Sunday means Selma and the Edmund

1924
01:56:02,960 --> 01:56:07,360
Speaker 1: Pettis Bridge. For others it means Northern Ireland. And for

1925
01:56:07,440 --> 01:56:09,280
Speaker 1: a lot of people, especially off a certain age, the

1926
01:56:09,320 --> 01:56:13,200
Speaker 1: phrase may first registered simply through a song Sunday, Bloody

1927
01:56:13,200 --> 01:56:16,000
Speaker 1: Sunday by U two. By the way, it's a song

1928
01:56:16,000 --> 01:56:22,600
Speaker 1: that opens not with poetry, but with a with exhaustion.

1929
01:56:22,760 --> 01:56:28,960
Speaker 1: I guess you could say I can't believe the news today? Boy?

1930
01:56:29,120 --> 01:56:31,480
Speaker 1: Is this ring true? Huh? There's some echoes here, that's

1931
01:56:31,520 --> 01:56:35,000
Speaker 1: the point. So tonight though, I am talking about January thirtieth,

1932
01:56:36,280 --> 01:56:41,240
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, Bloody Sunday in Dairy and why more

1933
01:56:41,280 --> 01:56:44,520
Speaker 1: than fifty years later, it still echoes. Let me set

1934
01:56:44,520 --> 01:56:47,240
Speaker 1: the scene for you. It's Northern Ireland before the shooting.

1935
01:56:47,720 --> 01:56:51,400
Speaker 1: By the early nineteen seventies, Northern Ireland was already simmering

1936
01:56:51,680 --> 01:56:57,520
Speaker 1: with political dis if you would call political disruption. The

1937
01:56:57,600 --> 01:57:02,200
Speaker 1: Catholic minority faced systemic housing discript nation, unequal voting power,

1938
01:57:02,880 --> 01:57:06,920
Speaker 1: and routine harassment by security forces. Civil rights marches had

1939
01:57:06,920 --> 01:57:12,200
Speaker 1: begun years earlier, modeled consciously on the American Civil rights movement.

1940
01:57:13,720 --> 01:57:17,520
Speaker 1: And here's the critical point. These were not revolutionary marches.

1941
01:57:18,240 --> 01:57:23,400
Speaker 1: They were demand simply for equal treatment within the United Kingdom.

1942
01:57:23,440 --> 01:57:26,560
Speaker 1: This was not about overthrowing the king or overthrowing the

1943
01:57:26,600 --> 01:57:31,440
Speaker 1: Prime Minister. But the British government had grown increasingly alarmed

1944
01:57:31,880 --> 01:57:37,040
Speaker 1: marches were banned. Can you imagine that happening here? Internment

1945
01:57:37,120 --> 01:57:42,440
Speaker 1: without trial was imposed, and the British Army, initially welcomed

1946
01:57:42,440 --> 01:57:46,520
Speaker 1: by many Catholics as protection, turned into an occupying force.

1947
01:57:47,720 --> 01:57:50,800
Speaker 1: So here's what actually happened. On January thirtieth, nineteen seventy two,

1948
01:57:51,160 --> 01:57:54,600
Speaker 1: several thousand protesters marched in the bog Side neighborhood of Derry.

1949
01:57:55,440 --> 01:57:58,520
Speaker 1: They were unarmed, many of them were young, some of

1950
01:57:58,560 --> 01:58:02,080
Speaker 1: them were even teenagers. Not surprising, right, It's the youth

1951
01:58:02,680 --> 01:58:06,960
Speaker 1: that has the energy and the motivation to march. But

1952
01:58:07,000 --> 01:58:12,680
Speaker 1: the march was illegal, but it was also peaceful. But

1953
01:58:12,800 --> 01:58:19,200
Speaker 1: because it was illegal, the Brits deployed paratroopers. Tensions rose

1954
01:58:19,440 --> 01:58:22,960
Speaker 1: and within minutes soldiers opened fire. By the end of

1955
01:58:23,000 --> 01:58:25,840
Speaker 1: the day, thirteen civilians were dead. One more would later

1956
01:58:25,920 --> 01:58:29,000
Speaker 1: die of his wounds. None were armed. Let me say repeat,

1957
01:58:29,200 --> 01:58:32,760
Speaker 1: none were armed. Several were shot while running away, others

1958
01:58:32,760 --> 01:58:36,720
Speaker 1: were shot while trying to help the wounded. Not crossfire,

1959
01:58:37,080 --> 01:58:42,800
Speaker 1: not chaos. It was state violence against civilians. Almost immediately,

1960
01:58:42,840 --> 01:58:45,720
Speaker 1: the British government claimed the following that soldiers were fired

1961
01:58:45,800 --> 01:58:55,200
Speaker 1: upon they weren't. Nail bombs were present, fiction force was necessary.

1962
01:58:56,080 --> 01:59:01,520
Speaker 1: Those claims were widely reported, and for years those claims stood.

1963
01:59:03,040 --> 01:59:07,120
Speaker 1: But the damage wasn't just to the deaths. It was

1964
01:59:07,120 --> 01:59:10,440
Speaker 1: a collapse of trust. Bloody Sunday didn't just kill civilians.

1965
01:59:10,480 --> 01:59:13,680
Speaker 1: It killed the belief that the state could be neutral.

1966
01:59:14,760 --> 01:59:16,000
Speaker 1: I know it's hard for you, some of you, to

1967
01:59:16,040 --> 01:59:19,640
Speaker 1: believe that the United Kingdom would behave this way in

1968
01:59:19,720 --> 01:59:22,880
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two. I know some of my older Irish

1969
01:59:22,920 --> 01:59:26,120
Speaker 1: friends know this. No differently but I'm sure plenty of

1970
01:59:26,160 --> 01:59:28,480
Speaker 1: you are going this can't be the UK. Yes, it was.

1971
01:59:29,960 --> 01:59:36,000
Speaker 1: So guess what this did, IRA, which was the group

1972
01:59:36,080 --> 01:59:41,040
Speaker 1: that was supporting the rights of the abused Catholic minority.

1973
01:59:41,720 --> 01:59:45,840
Speaker 1: IRA recruitment surged, the moderates who were trying to preach

1974
01:59:45,920 --> 01:59:51,560
Speaker 1: calm were silenced, and radicalism flourished. Sounds familiar, doesn't it.

1975
01:59:53,640 --> 01:59:55,720
Speaker 1: So here's my lesson from this time machine. When the

1976
01:59:55,720 --> 02:00:00,400
Speaker 1: state lies about violence, it radicalizes the people it claims

1977
02:00:00,440 --> 02:00:06,600
Speaker 1: to protect. It took thirty eight years for the official

1978
02:00:06,640 --> 02:00:09,160
Speaker 1: truth to catch up with the reality of Bloody Sunday

1979
02:00:09,160 --> 02:00:12,600
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy two. It was in twenty ten the

1980
02:00:12,680 --> 02:00:16,680
Speaker 1: Seville Inquiry concluded that the victims posed no threat, the

1981
02:00:16,720 --> 02:00:20,960
Speaker 1: shootings were unjustified and unjustifiable, and that the soldiers accounts

1982
02:00:21,000 --> 02:00:25,640
Speaker 1: were all false. The British Prime Minister at the time

1983
02:00:25,720 --> 02:00:31,680
Speaker 1: formally apologized, Okay, you know we've had presidents apologize for slavery.

1984
02:00:32,640 --> 02:00:36,240
Speaker 1: It's better than not. But it's not like we can

1985
02:00:36,280 --> 02:00:41,080
Speaker 1: rewind history. Northern Ireland had already endured decades of bloodshed.

1986
02:00:41,680 --> 02:00:44,040
Speaker 1: Bloody Sunday didn't start the fire, but it poured fuel

1987
02:00:44,080 --> 02:00:49,120
Speaker 1: on it. Now there's a reason this moment did not

1988
02:00:49,360 --> 02:00:53,200
Speaker 1: get stay, did not get buried in the history books,

1989
02:00:55,800 --> 02:01:03,600
Speaker 1: thanks to our friends. Hey you too, Bono. And here's

1990
02:01:03,640 --> 02:01:08,640
Speaker 1: what I'm going to do with that annoying Bono who

1991
02:01:09,920 --> 02:01:12,760
Speaker 1: one time called me a radical centrist. I'm not sure

1992
02:01:12,760 --> 02:01:14,320
Speaker 1: he was paying me a compliment, but he was kind

1993
02:01:14,360 --> 02:01:16,760
Speaker 1: of trying to pay me a compliment. I think I've

1994
02:01:16,760 --> 02:01:19,760
Speaker 1: mentioned this once or twice, but it was one of

1995
02:01:19,800 --> 02:01:21,560
Speaker 1: those weird moments, and I was telling him how much

1996
02:01:21,560 --> 02:01:25,080
Speaker 1: I just love the there's this one throwback album that

1997
02:01:25,080 --> 02:01:28,360
Speaker 1: I loved her. It was a small salon dinner, and

1998
02:01:28,400 --> 02:01:30,600
Speaker 1: all he wanted to do was talk about the media.

1999
02:01:30,720 --> 02:01:34,640
Speaker 1: We had a good conversation. But when you two released

2000
02:01:34,640 --> 02:01:36,680
Speaker 1: Sunday Bloody Sunday in nineteen eighty three, it wasn't a

2001
02:01:36,680 --> 02:01:41,280
Speaker 1: protest anthem in the traditional sense. It was a lament right.

2002
02:01:43,800 --> 02:01:47,080
Speaker 1: The song is not an angry song. It's weary, right.

2003
02:01:47,960 --> 02:01:52,000
Speaker 1: How long must we sing this song? Right? Broken bottles

2004
02:01:52,040 --> 02:01:56,800
Speaker 1: under children's feet, It's sad. It's not a call to

2005
02:01:56,880 --> 02:02:03,840
Speaker 1: arms either. It's a It's expressions of moral fatigue. It's

2006
02:02:03,880 --> 02:02:07,680
Speaker 1: probably why the song resonates, and it was important for

2007
02:02:07,720 --> 02:02:11,760
Speaker 1: it to happen because the song actually doesn't pick sides.

2008
02:02:13,320 --> 02:02:16,480
Speaker 1: It just simply condemns the cycle of bullshit and violence.

2009
02:02:18,360 --> 02:02:21,200
Speaker 1: It captures what happens when violence becomes normalized and when

2010
02:02:21,240 --> 02:02:26,960
Speaker 1: everyone insists they're acting defensively. It's my great fear of

2011
02:02:27,000 --> 02:02:30,200
Speaker 1: what's going to happen in Minneapolis. Right each side believes

2012
02:02:30,200 --> 02:02:34,520
Speaker 1: the behavior of the other only means they've got to

2013
02:02:34,560 --> 02:02:38,280
Speaker 1: dig in more. We need real leadership at this moment

2014
02:02:38,320 --> 02:02:40,760
Speaker 1: to de escalate. With the President of the United States,

2015
02:02:40,960 --> 02:02:44,120
Speaker 1: it's the only person that could play that role effectively,

2016
02:02:45,000 --> 02:02:48,520
Speaker 1: and he's refusing to deescalate. I appreciate that jd. Vance

2017
02:02:48,920 --> 02:02:54,720
Speaker 1: used calm tone, but he clearly failed because the biggest

2018
02:02:54,720 --> 02:03:02,160
Speaker 1: problem that took place there was not opening an investigation

2019
02:03:02,600 --> 02:03:06,280
Speaker 1: on Renee Good and we now understand the fallout from that.

2020
02:03:07,560 --> 02:03:09,880
Speaker 1: But back to my time, as you could see, it's hard.

2021
02:03:10,200 --> 02:03:13,000
Speaker 1: It's hard to disentangle anything these days from what's happening

2022
02:03:13,120 --> 02:03:17,360
Speaker 1: on the ground of Minneapolis. But let me be precise here.

2023
02:03:18,400 --> 02:03:20,839
Speaker 1: I don't want to say that history is repeating itself,

2024
02:03:21,400 --> 02:03:23,880
Speaker 1: but we should recognize the patterns, and that's what the

2025
02:03:23,880 --> 02:03:26,800
Speaker 1: point of Bloody Sunday is. Bloody Sunday shows us that

2026
02:03:26,840 --> 02:03:31,520
Speaker 1: what happens when governments refine redefine protest as inherent disorder.

2027
02:03:32,600 --> 02:03:35,160
Speaker 1: You've heard many of these propagandas do that on the

2028
02:03:35,200 --> 02:03:40,520
Speaker 1: Sunday Morning shows. They're trying to treat whole communities as suspect. Again,

2029
02:03:40,720 --> 02:03:44,080
Speaker 1: all of Minneapolis is the problem, if you believe Stephen Miller,

2030
02:03:44,640 --> 02:03:47,160
Speaker 1: and they want to rely on force first and an

2031
02:03:47,160 --> 02:03:53,000
Speaker 1: explanation later. When modern leaders talk about dominating cities, or

2032
02:03:53,040 --> 02:03:58,000
Speaker 1: when immigration enforcement rhetoric shifts from law to punishment, history

2033
02:03:58,160 --> 02:04:02,280
Speaker 1: reminds us of something essential. Almost never see themselves as

2034
02:04:02,320 --> 02:04:05,920
Speaker 1: crossing a line in real time. They tell themselves they're

2035
02:04:05,920 --> 02:04:10,720
Speaker 1: restoring order. They tell themselves that restraint has failed. They

2036
02:04:10,720 --> 02:04:16,360
Speaker 1: tell themselves forces temporary. Bloody Sunday tells us how permanent

2037
02:04:16,440 --> 02:04:22,400
Speaker 1: the consequences can be. There's a reason bloody Sunday as

2038
02:04:22,440 --> 02:04:25,880
Speaker 1: a phrase still resonates. It's a shorthand for a moment

2039
02:04:25,880 --> 02:04:30,160
Speaker 1: when the state lost moral authority by the way. That

2040
02:04:30,240 --> 02:04:36,640
Speaker 1: happened in Selma, that happened in Darry, that happened in Minneapolis.

2041
02:04:37,960 --> 02:04:42,800
Speaker 1: Legitimacy has collapsed. That happened in the South in the sixties,

2042
02:04:43,560 --> 02:04:47,440
Speaker 1: that happened in Northern Ireland in the seventies, and that's

2043
02:04:47,440 --> 02:04:51,200
Speaker 1: happening right now in the ground in Minneapolis, and truth

2044
02:04:52,080 --> 02:04:57,160
Speaker 1: took decades to surface. I hope that's not the case

2045
02:04:57,760 --> 02:05:01,360
Speaker 1: in Minneapolis, but it has been the case with civil

2046
02:05:01,400 --> 02:05:05,240
Speaker 1: rights in the sixties and what happened in Northern Ireland

2047
02:05:05,240 --> 02:05:08,800
Speaker 1: in the seventies. But this is why that phrase survives

2048
02:05:09,120 --> 02:05:13,800
Speaker 1: in history books, in memory, and in music. So when

2049
02:05:13,800 --> 02:05:16,520
Speaker 1: we look back later this week on January thirtieth, nineteen

2050
02:05:16,560 --> 02:05:20,760
Speaker 1: seventy two, the lesson isn't simply about Northern Ireland. It's

2051
02:05:20,800 --> 02:05:24,839
Speaker 1: about restraint. It's about truth, about how easily governments convince

2052
02:05:24,920 --> 02:05:31,560
Speaker 1: themselves that force will solve what legitimacy already had lost, or,

2053
02:05:31,600 --> 02:05:35,760
Speaker 1: as you two put it, without offering any answers, only

2054
02:05:35,760 --> 02:05:49,400
Speaker 1: a warning, the battles just bego. All right, let's do

2055
02:05:49,440 --> 02:05:56,960
Speaker 1: some question, ask Chuck, I know what more is there

2056
02:05:56,960 --> 02:06:00,880
Speaker 1: to say or ask? At this point, I'll admit I'm

2057
02:06:00,880 --> 02:06:07,360
Speaker 1: mentally exhausted from all of this. But this podcast, everything

2058
02:06:07,400 --> 02:06:13,120
Speaker 1: I'm doing, is meaningless without your contributions, and I'm not

2059
02:06:13,160 --> 02:06:15,680
Speaker 1: going to let an episode go without taking a few questions.

2060
02:06:15,680 --> 02:06:19,520
Speaker 1: And so with that, I'll start with this Chuck, I

2061
02:06:19,520 --> 02:06:21,440
Speaker 1: heard you say that the ICE agents in Minneapolis were

2062
02:06:21,520 --> 02:06:24,120
Speaker 1: untrained newbies. But the one who killed Renee Good was

2063
02:06:24,160 --> 02:06:25,880
Speaker 1: reportedly a ten year veteran and the one who shot

2064
02:06:25,920 --> 02:06:28,440
Speaker 1: the ICU nurse had six seven years of experience. That's

2065
02:06:28,440 --> 02:06:30,880
Speaker 1: actually more troubling. Those aren't rookies, and they were likely

2066
02:06:30,920 --> 02:06:33,920
Speaker 1: trained under more constitutionally aware policies. I just wanted to

2067
02:06:33,960 --> 02:06:35,840
Speaker 1: share that nuance in case it hadn't come across your

2068
02:06:35,840 --> 02:06:37,840
Speaker 1: red area. Iet. Keep up the good work, Corey b Hey,

2069
02:06:37,840 --> 02:06:41,760
Speaker 1: it's fair. You know. I think it goes back to

2070
02:06:42,080 --> 02:06:44,600
Speaker 1: are there going to be consequences for bad actions? Right?

2071
02:06:44,680 --> 02:06:47,280
Speaker 1: You know, ultimately, why are there laws? Why do we

2072
02:06:47,440 --> 02:06:51,680
Speaker 1: have these laws against bad actions when sometimes bad actors

2073
02:06:51,680 --> 02:06:53,640
Speaker 1: are going to happen no matter what. Because I do

2074
02:06:53,680 --> 02:06:58,400
Speaker 1: think in some circumstances somebody who there are people who who,

2075
02:06:59,640 --> 02:07:03,360
Speaker 1: if they're there are no consequences, don't have their own

2076
02:07:03,440 --> 02:07:08,160
Speaker 1: moral center. But it takes consequences for them to have

2077
02:07:08,200 --> 02:07:11,640
Speaker 1: a moral center, or at least behave as if they

2078
02:07:11,680 --> 02:07:17,080
Speaker 1: have one. So these are important facts. They're even more troubling.

2079
02:07:19,080 --> 02:07:23,080
Speaker 1: But there's no doubt that this is top down. They

2080
02:07:23,120 --> 02:07:26,800
Speaker 1: are the message that it's been sent is that there

2081
02:07:26,840 --> 02:07:34,080
Speaker 1: will be tolerance for violence, and that has allowed plenty

2082
02:07:34,240 --> 02:07:37,720
Speaker 1: of those who are of a weak mind and maybe

2083
02:07:37,800 --> 02:07:41,920
Speaker 1: don't have a moral or ethical center that is filled

2084
02:07:41,960 --> 02:07:45,600
Speaker 1: with empathy or even has an ounce of empathy. They

2085
02:07:45,600 --> 02:07:48,240
Speaker 1: can then also do bad things. So I can't you know,

2086
02:07:48,480 --> 02:07:52,840
Speaker 1: I still stand by that. Look, the training videos, the

2087
02:07:52,880 --> 02:07:55,680
Speaker 1: advertisements or ice agents tell you what they're They're not

2088
02:07:56,000 --> 02:08:00,920
Speaker 1: looking for law enforcement officers who practice restraint de escalatory,

2089
02:08:01,280 --> 02:08:04,360
Speaker 1: so there's no doubt and perhaps these guys were picked

2090
02:08:05,320 --> 02:08:09,080
Speaker 1: because they're more likely to be thugs in their behavior,

2091
02:08:09,200 --> 02:08:14,640
Speaker 1: not less likely. Next question comes from Kenny from Massapequa.

2092
02:08:15,240 --> 02:08:17,120
Speaker 1: I just wanted to be able to prove I could say, Massapequa,

2093
02:08:17,600 --> 02:08:19,560
Speaker 1: I appreciate your take on the Minneapolis shooting and agreed

2094
02:08:19,560 --> 02:08:20,840
Speaker 1: to nearly all of it. One thing I'd add The

2095
02:08:20,920 --> 02:08:23,760
Speaker 1: video shows the agents escalating quickly, no sign of de escalation,

2096
02:08:24,040 --> 02:08:25,520
Speaker 1: and it looks like the young man was trying to

2097
02:08:25,520 --> 02:08:28,120
Speaker 1: protect another protester who had just been shoved. That level

2098
02:08:28,160 --> 02:08:30,839
Speaker 1: of aggression suggests deeper issues than just lack of training.

2099
02:08:31,000 --> 02:08:33,440
Speaker 1: Fair point. It's also clear now that the Trump administration

2100
02:08:33,520 --> 02:08:36,280
Speaker 1: fully supports these tactics, and I worry about the feedback

2101
02:08:36,320 --> 02:08:39,400
Speaker 1: loop that creates. Are you hearing anything different behind the scenes. Also,

2102
02:08:39,480 --> 02:08:41,879
Speaker 1: even though I'm pretty far left politically, I listened regularly

2103
02:08:41,960 --> 02:08:44,240
Speaker 1: appreciate the honest conversations you bring to the table. Thanks

2104
02:08:44,280 --> 02:08:46,800
Speaker 1: for helping me step outside my own echo chamber. Stay warm.

2105
02:08:46,880 --> 02:08:50,920
Speaker 1: Kenny from Massapequa. Well, look, I mean, I think at

2106
02:08:50,920 --> 02:08:55,720
Speaker 1: this point the fact that you're starting to see folks

2107
02:08:55,720 --> 02:08:59,600
Speaker 1: that will support this more aggressive policy going to get

2108
02:08:59,600 --> 02:09:04,120
Speaker 1: anybody that's in this country that's undocumented and deporting them immediately.

2109
02:09:06,880 --> 02:09:10,840
Speaker 1: Those that support the policy are starting to get uncomfortable

2110
02:09:10,840 --> 02:09:14,360
Speaker 1: with the tactics. So it is the tactics that to

2111
02:09:14,440 --> 02:09:17,000
Speaker 1: me are the eighty twenty issue here. The policy is

2112
02:09:17,000 --> 02:09:20,280
Speaker 1: not eighty twenty right, And I think we've all of that.

2113
02:09:20,720 --> 02:09:24,080
Speaker 1: You know, I do not, you know, believe although at

2114
02:09:24,080 --> 02:09:27,600
Speaker 1: this point ICE feels in its current form, DHS and

2115
02:09:27,680 --> 02:09:32,040
Speaker 1: ICE feel you know, they may feel irredeemable to you,

2116
02:09:32,160 --> 02:09:35,040
Speaker 1: but I would look, the FBI has been irredeemable at

2117
02:09:35,040 --> 02:09:40,040
Speaker 1: times and then fix CIA same thing. So you know,

2118
02:09:40,120 --> 02:09:43,320
Speaker 1: to me, it's not institutions that fail, it's the people

2119
02:09:43,320 --> 02:09:50,160
Speaker 1: in charge of them that make them fail. But yeah,

2120
02:09:50,200 --> 02:09:54,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there's no I do think that

2121
02:09:55,280 --> 02:09:59,000
Speaker 1: I want to align myself with what Robert George said,

2122
02:09:59,200 --> 02:10:02,960
Speaker 1: like I said, along time conservative columnists and you know,

2123
02:10:03,600 --> 02:10:06,720
Speaker 1: just sort of I guess more of your old fashioned

2124
02:10:06,720 --> 02:10:10,760
Speaker 1: free market conservative right and very much limited government conservative

2125
02:10:12,360 --> 02:10:14,960
Speaker 1: who says, look the the You know that this was

2126
02:10:15,000 --> 02:10:20,440
Speaker 1: the mistake not investigating, not not acceding to a full

2127
02:10:20,560 --> 02:10:23,560
Speaker 1: investigation of what happened to Rene Good because what the

2128
02:10:24,080 --> 02:10:26,720
Speaker 1: un and maybe this was an intended message. So I

2129
02:10:26,720 --> 02:10:28,960
Speaker 1: don't want to say, but the message it's sent to

2130
02:10:29,160 --> 02:10:31,960
Speaker 1: ICE agents was you're not going to be held accountable.

2131
02:10:33,280 --> 02:10:37,200
Speaker 1: Don't worry. And the same message was sent to protesters,

2132
02:10:37,320 --> 02:10:40,160
Speaker 1: These guys are not going to be held So, you know,

2133
02:10:42,840 --> 02:10:44,760
Speaker 1: I have a feeling, you know, here, here's here's a

2134
02:10:44,880 --> 02:10:46,760
Speaker 1: question that I'm going to be curious about. Are we

2135
02:10:46,760 --> 02:10:50,840
Speaker 1: going to see a surge in people that have never

2136
02:10:53,440 --> 02:10:57,080
Speaker 1: registered by a gun before suddenly registered by a gun

2137
02:10:57,640 --> 02:11:05,280
Speaker 1: because they're fearful of their own government? Next question comes

2138
02:11:05,320 --> 02:11:07,720
Speaker 1: from David and Highland Park, Illinois. Right, Hey, Chuck, really

2139
02:11:07,760 --> 02:11:09,800
Speaker 1: appreciate your voice during moments like these. It's been a

2140
02:11:09,920 --> 02:11:12,160
Speaker 1: port in the storm. Thank you for saying that someone

2141
02:11:12,200 --> 02:11:16,000
Speaker 1: who's family fled pilgrims in the villages south of Kiev.

2142
02:11:16,240 --> 02:11:18,160
Speaker 1: I now find myself wondering how naive is I to

2143
02:11:18,200 --> 02:11:20,400
Speaker 1: believe it can't happen here? Yeah, I know, you and

2144
02:11:20,400 --> 02:11:22,920
Speaker 1: me both brother. The ice killings have shaken that belief,

2145
02:11:22,960 --> 02:11:25,280
Speaker 1: and I worry we're nearing a tipping point historically and socially,

2146
02:11:25,520 --> 02:11:27,200
Speaker 1: with so much at stake for so many of us.

2147
02:11:27,240 --> 02:11:29,480
Speaker 1: How do we navigate this moment without descending into unrest

2148
02:11:29,560 --> 02:11:32,640
Speaker 1: or unraveling what's left in the American experiment? Well, look,

2149
02:11:32,680 --> 02:11:37,160
Speaker 1: this is I tried to end with with that sort

2150
02:11:37,160 --> 02:11:40,240
Speaker 1: of like what needs to happen? Right, everybody needs to

2151
02:11:40,280 --> 02:11:44,440
Speaker 1: do their part. Some of their part is simply voting.

2152
02:11:44,800 --> 02:11:47,720
Speaker 1: Some of their part is simply protesting. Some of their

2153
02:11:47,760 --> 02:11:50,160
Speaker 1: part is calling your member of Congress, calling your senator.

2154
02:11:50,640 --> 02:11:54,120
Speaker 1: You know, I teach a class called how Washington Works,

2155
02:11:54,160 --> 02:11:57,640
Speaker 1: and it's I got thirty eight students this semester, So

2156
02:11:57,720 --> 02:12:03,520
Speaker 1: it's the largest class I've taught, and about half of

2157
02:12:03,560 --> 02:12:06,160
Speaker 1: them have internships on Capitol Hill. And all of them

2158
02:12:06,200 --> 02:12:09,360
Speaker 1: said that their phones, whether they're answering phones for Democrat

2159
02:12:09,640 --> 02:12:13,360
Speaker 1: or somebody else Republicans, they've all been flooded about complaints

2160
02:12:13,400 --> 02:12:15,920
Speaker 1: about Ice and the behavior of Ice, et cetera. You

2161
02:12:15,920 --> 02:12:23,280
Speaker 1: know that it is. It's all of these things, right.

2162
02:12:23,320 --> 02:12:26,320
Speaker 1: It's protesting in the streets, it's calling your member of Congress,

2163
02:12:26,400 --> 02:12:28,800
Speaker 1: it's voting for some of you, maybe running for office

2164
02:12:28,920 --> 02:12:31,320
Speaker 1: for some of you, maybe donating money for some of you.

2165
02:12:31,800 --> 02:12:35,240
Speaker 1: Whatever it is. But I will say this, the real,

2166
02:12:35,640 --> 02:12:41,320
Speaker 1: the most effective actions are going to come from Republicans

2167
02:12:42,000 --> 02:12:49,480
Speaker 1: who who believe who may believe in and their conservative politics,

2168
02:12:49,520 --> 02:12:52,280
Speaker 1: who realize that Donald Trump is destroying the conservative movement.

2169
02:12:53,720 --> 02:13:00,520
Speaker 1: And you know if just just through cynical political uh

2170
02:13:00,800 --> 02:13:06,400
Speaker 1: lens here, you're gonna get you. You're not to my

2171
02:13:06,520 --> 02:13:09,800
Speaker 1: conservative friends who are uncomfortable with what Trump's doing but

2172
02:13:09,840 --> 02:13:17,280
Speaker 1: are afraid of speaking out. Take your party back. You

2173
02:13:17,320 --> 02:13:19,640
Speaker 1: can't hope the liberals do it for you. They're not

2174
02:13:19,640 --> 02:13:21,280
Speaker 1: going to do it for you. You can't help people like

2175
02:13:21,400 --> 02:13:24,440
Speaker 1: me and the media. We can only tell you what's happening.

2176
02:13:25,560 --> 02:13:28,320
Speaker 1: We can tell you how this works. Fight for the

2177
02:13:28,360 --> 02:13:33,560
Speaker 1: conservative movement. Stand up, say something. This is my friend

2178
02:13:33,600 --> 02:13:35,800
Speaker 1: Jack Danforth, who I had in this podcast a few

2179
02:13:35,840 --> 02:13:38,480
Speaker 1: weeks ago. Is this who we are? Is this who

2180
02:13:38,520 --> 02:13:42,600
Speaker 1: you want to be? Do you want align yourself with

2181
02:13:42,720 --> 02:13:51,600
Speaker 1: a movement that celebrates the brown Shirts. Right, so you

2182
02:13:51,640 --> 02:13:54,240
Speaker 1: got to you gotta use all your all your built

2183
02:13:54,320 --> 02:13:59,120
Speaker 1: all your rights, your constitutional rights. But just raining at

2184
02:13:59,120 --> 02:14:03,320
Speaker 1: homemade isn't enough, right, Everybody's got to do their part.

2185
02:14:03,560 --> 02:14:06,640
Speaker 1: You know, my job as a journalist that has you know,

2186
02:14:06,680 --> 02:14:11,640
Speaker 1: has has has some opportunity to just simply try to

2187
02:14:11,680 --> 02:14:15,680
Speaker 1: help other colleagues of mine. Say what you see, don't

2188
02:14:15,720 --> 02:14:25,960
Speaker 1: round the edges, say what you see, report what they're saying. Okay,

2189
02:14:26,360 --> 02:14:30,880
Speaker 1: but be careful how you report what they're saying. Say

2190
02:14:30,880 --> 02:14:38,640
Speaker 1: what you see. They claim they're seeing something else. We

2191
02:14:38,800 --> 02:14:42,000
Speaker 1: can't verify what they're seeing. There is no facts to

2192
02:14:42,080 --> 02:14:46,360
Speaker 1: back up what they've seen. That's the part I feel

2193
02:14:46,360 --> 02:14:56,400
Speaker 1: like I can play. Everybody's got to speak up. It

2194
02:14:56,520 --> 02:15:00,760
Speaker 1: is okay. And if you're a concern and you don't

2195
02:15:00,800 --> 02:15:04,160
Speaker 1: like what you're seeing, speaking up doesn't mean you've become

2196
02:15:04,200 --> 02:15:09,520
Speaker 1: a Kamala Harris supporter, and and and and I and

2197
02:15:09,560 --> 02:15:13,160
Speaker 1: if you are good for you, that's democracy, that's that's

2198
02:15:13,200 --> 02:15:17,680
Speaker 1: the American way. But you don't have to you don't

2199
02:15:17,760 --> 02:15:19,400
Speaker 1: You don't even have to regret your vote. You can

2200
02:15:19,440 --> 02:15:21,120
Speaker 1: simply say I didn't think Donald Trump was going to

2201
02:15:21,160 --> 02:15:22,520
Speaker 1: behave this way. I thought he was going to behave

2202
02:15:22,560 --> 02:15:29,360
Speaker 1: like Trump one point, Oh, you don't have to stay

2203
02:15:29,480 --> 02:15:32,920
Speaker 1: I understand, right, It's it's human nature to stick to

2204
02:15:32,960 --> 02:15:37,520
Speaker 1: your guns as long as you can. Right. And you've

2205
02:15:37,520 --> 02:15:40,240
Speaker 1: seen these interviews and people are going, wow, I wanted

2206
02:15:40,320 --> 02:15:43,760
Speaker 1: him to get rid of these undocumented immigrants. But but man,

2207
02:15:43,840 --> 02:15:46,000
Speaker 1: I like this guy who runs the restaurant down your here.

2208
02:15:46,200 --> 02:15:49,360
Speaker 1: He's a wonderful member of this community. I didn't that

2209
02:15:49,480 --> 02:15:53,440
Speaker 1: he wasn't who I was thinking of. Right. The point

2210
02:15:53,520 --> 02:15:58,440
Speaker 1: is is that it's okay to say I thought I

2211
02:15:58,480 --> 02:16:00,720
Speaker 1: was getting something else, and I don't. I don't like

2212
02:16:00,760 --> 02:16:04,840
Speaker 1: what I'm getting. If enough of folks on the right

2213
02:16:05,520 --> 02:16:08,120
Speaker 1: don't stand up and do that, you're going to lose

2214
02:16:08,120 --> 02:16:15,120
Speaker 1: the entire conservative movement for a generation. And maybe it's earned.

2215
02:16:15,280 --> 02:16:17,400
Speaker 1: I mean, this decision to go down this Donald Trump

2216
02:16:18,240 --> 02:16:25,400
Speaker 1: lane has totally Anybody who is trying to claim what

2217
02:16:25,400 --> 02:16:30,959
Speaker 1: Trump is doing as conservative literally doesn't know the definition

2218
02:16:31,000 --> 02:16:36,400
Speaker 1: of conservative. I don't think there's a single thing he's

2219
02:16:36,520 --> 02:16:41,359
Speaker 1: done that meets the definition of conservative. However, whatever definition

2220
02:16:41,440 --> 02:16:46,720
Speaker 1: you want to come up with, he's nowhere near it.

2221
02:16:49,600 --> 02:16:56,920
Speaker 1: So look, I think I think that you, David, can

2222
02:16:57,200 --> 02:17:00,359
Speaker 1: can tell people, Hey, I let me tell you what happens.

2223
02:17:00,400 --> 02:17:02,640
Speaker 1: Let me tell you what I thought America was. Please

2224
02:17:02,680 --> 02:17:05,800
Speaker 1: don't let America become what I just had to deal

2225
02:17:05,840 --> 02:17:09,960
Speaker 1: with with the Russians. Right, So, David, your stories are

2226
02:17:10,000 --> 02:17:14,040
Speaker 1: important to share. So share your stories with fellow Americans

2227
02:17:15,520 --> 02:17:17,600
Speaker 1: so they can understand and let them know why you

2228
02:17:17,680 --> 02:17:21,720
Speaker 1: came here and why you're why you're wondering what is

2229
02:17:21,760 --> 02:17:30,600
Speaker 1: this place now? But the point is silence new sort

2230
02:17:30,600 --> 02:17:38,600
Speaker 1: of acquiescence. You know whatever, I think you know. I

2231
02:17:38,640 --> 02:17:43,120
Speaker 1: think Trump eventually assumes he'll wear people down. That's the

2232
02:17:43,160 --> 02:17:45,879
Speaker 1: other thing. Don't don't get discouraged. And this is what

2233
02:17:45,920 --> 02:17:47,560
Speaker 1: I've tried to be very careful here. I don't want

2234
02:17:47,560 --> 02:17:50,680
Speaker 1: to discourage people that the system is broken and it's unfixable.

2235
02:17:51,879 --> 02:17:55,960
Speaker 1: Human beings, we can we can restore. We can do this.

2236
02:17:56,040 --> 02:17:59,039
Speaker 1: We recovered from a civil war. We've we've done a lot,

2237
02:18:01,040 --> 02:18:04,320
Speaker 1: We're capable of a lot. We just have to put

2238
02:18:04,320 --> 02:18:05,959
Speaker 1: our we have to put our minds to it. And

2239
02:18:06,000 --> 02:18:11,480
Speaker 1: it is time to eradicate this country of this virus.

2240
02:18:12,000 --> 02:18:17,880
Speaker 1: This of this virus that is running through a small

2241
02:18:17,920 --> 02:18:23,760
Speaker 1: portion of the country that is now empowered some radical folks,

2242
02:18:25,400 --> 02:18:27,520
Speaker 1: and we've all got to do our part. And the

2243
02:18:27,840 --> 02:18:30,039
Speaker 1: more we can do it within the framework of the Constitution,

2244
02:18:30,160 --> 02:18:34,080
Speaker 1: the better off will be in the future. I understand

2245
02:18:34,560 --> 02:18:36,720
Speaker 1: people questioning whether any of this is going to matter,

2246
02:18:40,280 --> 02:18:46,800
Speaker 1: but in the overly quoted words, I think it's a

2247
02:18:46,840 --> 02:18:49,320
Speaker 1: Ben Franklin. But we can all decide if somebody else

2248
02:18:49,360 --> 02:18:51,680
Speaker 1: that's d it to republic, if we can keep it,

2249
02:18:51,959 --> 02:18:55,320
Speaker 1: let's try to keep it because we have forces that

2250
02:18:55,360 --> 02:18:58,920
Speaker 1: are trying to lose it. I'll see in forty eight

2251
02:18:58,959 --> 02:19:02,199
Speaker 1: hours two