Speaker 1: Since our initial release of Kevin Dykes's story, there have
Speaker 1: been some new developments, and this is a re release
Speaker 1: of that story with new content. As a child in
Speaker 1: the late nineteen seventies, Kevin Dykes accidentally killed his best
Speaker 1: friend when they were playing with a gun, sending him
Speaker 1: to Juvie for involuntary manslaughter. When he got out, he
Speaker 1: turned to petty drug dealing in Compton, California. Fast forward
Speaker 1: to nineteen eighty six. After a terrible assault that led
Speaker 1: to a four month hospital stint, Kevin continued peddling drugs
Speaker 1: from his temporary wheelchair for two men named Slim and Hondo.
Speaker 1: Kevin rented a bed and a trailer home in his
Speaker 1: landlord's driveway, where Slim and Hondo occasionally hit weapons. That June,
Speaker 1: two incidents occurred just days apart, resulting in one murder
Speaker 1: and two attempted murders. The first during a party when
Speaker 1: Kevin booted his friend Ephraim for being belligerently drunk. Slim
Speaker 1: and Hondo followed he from stabbing him several times. A
Speaker 1: neighborhood mother, Missus Bradley, came to Ephraim's aid, only to
Speaker 1: get dabbed as well. Kevin intervened, jumping from his wheelchair
Speaker 1: to stop the assault before it turned fatal. A few
Speaker 1: days later, Slim and Hondo accused Kevin's friend Otis Perry
Speaker 1: of stealing their gun from Kevin's trailer home, stabbing him
Speaker 1: eighty one times. Unable to stop the murderous frenzy and
Speaker 1: fearing for his own life, Kevin helped them clean up
Speaker 1: before going to the police a few hours later. A
Speaker 1: few days after that, Kevin was arrested for cocaine possession
Speaker 1: and put into a special holding tank for state's witnesses.
Speaker 1: Then three jailhouse snitches claimed that Kevin had confessed to
Speaker 1: all three attacks in exchange for leniency in their own cases.
Speaker 1: Kevin Dykes is serving life in prison on the word
Speaker 1: of three notorious jailhouse snitches. This is wrongful conviction with Jason.
Speaker 2: Flamm, this is Global taill Link.
Speaker 3: You have a prepaid call from here an inmate at
Speaker 3: the California State Prison, Los Angeles County, Lancaster, California. This
Speaker 3: call and our telephone number will be monitored and recorded.
Speaker 3: To accept this call, say or dial five now. Thank
Speaker 3: you for using globaltaill link.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrawful Conviction with Jason Flomp Today. We
Speaker 1: have an incredible story, so we're going to get right
Speaker 1: into it, and I'm going to introduce you first to
Speaker 1: Stephen K. Howser. He's a criminal defense attorney representing the
Speaker 1: star of this episode, Kevin Dike. Stephen, Welcome to Wrongful Conviction.
Speaker 4: Thank you, glad to be here.
Speaker 1: And Kevin Dykes is on the phone with us from prison,
Speaker 1: and I hope we'll be able to do something about
Speaker 1: his situation because it is awful. Kevin. I'm sorry you're
Speaker 1: here or where you are, but I'm happy you're here
Speaker 1: with us today. So thank you for being here.
Speaker 5: Thank you for the AVATORA.
Speaker 1: This case goes back to Compton nineteen eighty six, and
Speaker 1: it's got so much that you'll think I'm talking about
Speaker 1: a movie script that would be too much to be believed,
Speaker 1: except for it's real. It's got gangster's name Hondo and Slim.
Speaker 1: It's got drugs, it's got snitches that ended up on
Speaker 1: sixty minutes. It's got laws that changed and victims who
Speaker 1: testified that this was not the guy who did it.
Speaker 1: It's got a guy who's in prison for three and
Speaker 1: a half decades with no evidence against him except the
Speaker 1: testimony of jailhouse snitches who have recanted their testimony. It
Speaker 1: is nuts, but it's true. So let's get right into it.
Speaker 1: And Kevin, let's start with you going back to your
Speaker 1: youth because you grew up in Compton, right, Yes, I grew.
Speaker 5: Up got to pay at home in the pop Water Sport.
Speaker 5: I actually had a real good of bringing in two.
Speaker 5: I think it's actually saying I ended up actually killing
Speaker 5: my best friend. I went for as randfather, and I will.
Speaker 4: Sit to yas and for those of you who don't
Speaker 4: know YA or CYA is the California Youth Authority.
Speaker 1: As I understand it, your friend's death was entirely accidental,
Speaker 1: just two kids who made a big mistake playing with
Speaker 1: a gun. But they still sent your way to juvie
Speaker 1: for involuntary manslaughter. And I also understand that you harbor
Speaker 1: a lot of guilt about this, even though the family
Speaker 1: forgave you.
Speaker 5: Yes, this family, they stayed directly across the street from
Speaker 5: my family. Even to the day, still feel on the
Speaker 5: same street. Although the family had forgiven me, written me
Speaker 5: letters will come to see me. When I got out,
Speaker 5: I saw what I did to that family, and I
Speaker 5: didn't know how to proster. Although my mother and my
Speaker 5: father and my grandmother and all kinds of people were
Speaker 5: trying to help me, I didn't know how to ask
Speaker 5: for their help that I actually need. So I got
Speaker 5: dig grig as little grid of the k.
Speaker 1: So the guilt kind of derailed your potential, it seems.
Speaker 1: And after Juvie, you start dealing drugs and looking outside
Speaker 1: of what seemed like a supportive home for whatever it
Speaker 1: was that you felt you needed, acceptance, identity, whatever, out
Speaker 1: in the street. So fast forward to January nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 1: Some other really bad stuff happens.
Speaker 5: January eighteenth, so I to cheating them. They try to
Speaker 5: cheat them in the front of my house. I follow them.
Speaker 5: They ran me through a brick wall and both my
Speaker 5: hit smashed my films. So I went at the hospital
Speaker 5: January eighteenth, in dollarge of May twenties. When I got
Speaker 5: out of the hospital, I was in a wheelchair and
Speaker 5: I had a walker, and I was going to a therapy.
Speaker 1: Yes, someone tried to kidnap Kevin, so you fought them off,
Speaker 1: and they ended up hitting you with their car against
Speaker 1: a brick wall, broke your hips. Snapped your pelvis and
Speaker 1: put you in the hospital for four months. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're lucky to even be alive. And we haven't even
Speaker 1: gotten to the part that has you locked up right now. Okay,
Speaker 1: so it's May nineteen eighty six. You're temporarily in this
Speaker 1: wheelchair doing physical therapy and dealing drugs for these two
Speaker 1: mid level management drug dealers named Slim and Hondo.
Speaker 4: Slim and Hondo decided that they were going to take
Speaker 4: over the local drug sales. I believe they helped Kevin
Speaker 4: and some of his friends with small amounts of cocaine
Speaker 4: to sell in the neighborhood, and they would periodically show
Speaker 4: up and I guess resupply the local sellers, including Kevin
Speaker 4: and Kevin.
Speaker 1: You were renting a place to stay from a man
Speaker 1: named mister Bryce. You were renting a bed in this
Speaker 1: mobile home that sat in his driveway, right.
Speaker 5: Yes, I was a fan and mister bright'shole. We had
Speaker 5: a mobile hole over. They had like six days with
Speaker 5: a shower and all that stuff inside. It was parked
Speaker 5: in the driveway. Sometimes my friends, he's supposed to stay.
Speaker 5: They had like six places well sleeping here, so all
Speaker 5: this coming sleeping.
Speaker 4: Here and Otis is Otis Perry who occasionally stayed at
Speaker 4: mister Bryce's mobile home, and he's the one that was
Speaker 4: eventually stabbed by slimon Hondo for taking the gun that
Speaker 4: they had left in the trailer. The night that these
Speaker 4: two attempted murders occurred outside a party at mister Bryce's house.
Speaker 5: Yes, also, my cousin Pam was inside the mobile home.
Speaker 5: I was inside the house where the party was there
Speaker 5: when they're fighting when to fight after, So I didn't
Speaker 5: know this was out there at the time. Donald Slip
Speaker 5: pulls up. They knew mister Bryce didn't allow gus in
Speaker 5: his house, but they he had a gun in the
Speaker 5: mobile home. Well, my cousin in OSTs, but I still
Speaker 5: didn't know nothing about that at that time.
Speaker 1: Okay, so now the stage is finally set for these
Speaker 1: crimes to take place. This is we're talking June nineteenth,
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. There's a little party going on at
Speaker 1: mister Bryce's. Your friend Otis and your cousin Pam are
Speaker 1: in the mobile home in the driveway. Slim and Hondo,
Speaker 1: your bosses, come to hang out, but out of respect
Speaker 1: for mister Bryce, they leave their gun in the mobile home.
Speaker 1: Then your friend Ephraim is at the party and he
Speaker 1: is drunk, to say the least.
Speaker 5: Wellm is my older homeboy. He was young, beinglligerate and
Speaker 5: uh messing with the females. I was up in there,
Speaker 5: grabbing streaks that didn't belong to him, and I said,
Speaker 5: the man, go down to the pool man, keep back.
Speaker 5: I got and he kept home. So I got pissed
Speaker 5: off and I hate him once and when I hate him,
Speaker 5: Hondo slim. Both of them attacked him because of them,
Speaker 5: here's what they see it, he said. I didn't understand
Speaker 5: why did they get involved in there? Here's what they
Speaker 5: see because I should barely walk. They people were taking
Speaker 5: advantage of my disability.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so your drug bosses are sticking up for you.
Speaker 1: But then they go way beyond what you would ever
Speaker 1: want them to do.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So once I stuck both of them attacking, I got
Speaker 5: them to stop, told East leave. He left, and then
Speaker 5: they chased him down the street. They caught him at
Speaker 5: the end of the corner. Once I got down there,
Speaker 5: I saw that they were actually stabbing. When I Hando
Speaker 5: leaving along Hando, he little stup and saw me. But
Speaker 5: when he saw me, he saw Miss Bradley behind me.
Speaker 5: Miss Bradley is my older almost mother. When she looked
Speaker 5: up and saw that it was her son, she tried
Speaker 5: to turn it run. He ran her down, grabbed her
Speaker 5: by her address, and started stabbing her. I hopped my
Speaker 5: way to him and grabbed him to get him off
Speaker 5: of her, and once I was holdingly, she got loose,
Speaker 5: which gave you some time to get up, and then
Speaker 5: I got to convinced him to get into the car
Speaker 5: and drove them off. I drove off to a motel,
Speaker 5: and then I came back to check on Eathelm and
Speaker 5: Miss Bradley. But the hammer has already came when it
Speaker 5: was the hospital.
Speaker 1: So you basically saved Missus Bradley and Ephraim from being
Speaker 1: murdered by Slim and Hondo by convincing them to stop
Speaker 1: stabbing them and drive away from the scene. But this
Speaker 1: incident on June nineteenth is what becomes two charges of
Speaker 1: attempted murder that gets stuck on you. The guy confined
Speaker 1: to a wheelchair at the time. Yeah, okay, So Slim
Speaker 1: and Hondo stabbed both Ephraim and Missus Bradley. You drove
Speaker 1: them to a motel at some point your friend Otis
Speaker 1: back at the mobile home, takes the gun Slim and
Speaker 1: Hondo had left behind. Not too smart, by the way,
Speaker 1: because Slim and Hondo knew who was in the mobile
Speaker 1: home when they stashed it in the first place. So
Speaker 1: they come looking for Otis on June twenty third.
Speaker 5: June twenty thirty overs looking for Otis, like Wilson in
Speaker 5: the morning, they should come outside. I'm going to go
Speaker 5: to your oldest. I didn't know ODIs was out here
Speaker 5: in the motor hole. So when I went out to
Speaker 5: the front yard going to the motor opened, older stepped out.
Speaker 5: Hanolds cacked ODIs, say may with my gun? He said,
Speaker 5: we can go get it. He said, too late, and
Speaker 5: then cashing. They started fighting. ODIs was fighting back, but
Speaker 5: they were fighting him from the side of the mother hole.
Speaker 5: He went around the garage and that was the first
Speaker 5: time I saw him being stabbed. And I came back
Speaker 5: from around there. I wasn't naming the run or whatever,
Speaker 5: so didn't say nothing and just listening to everything that
Speaker 5: was going on. And I don't know how the much
Speaker 5: time passed, but then Honolds came from around there and
Speaker 5: there was no more noise. I was wondering them. Okay,
Speaker 5: now what he said, uh w what something? You got something?
Speaker 5: Rec me? And then I gave him my blanket, so
Speaker 5: him a swim, went behind the bath and wrapped him up,
Speaker 5: drugged him out and put him in the car. And
Speaker 5: then instead of human slim boy, he said, you Slim,
Speaker 5: you stay here watching out all the blood that was
Speaker 5: coming from behind the mother hole, and showed me to
Speaker 5: get in the car and ride with him. So I
Speaker 5: took him over through my Olmos neighborhood by the canil,
Speaker 5: and that's where he jumped in and I say, look,
Speaker 5: I'll be back. I left it the other same day.
Speaker 1: And what would you tell anyone listening now who's wondering
Speaker 1: why you played any part in getting rid of the
Speaker 1: body with Slim and Hondo.
Speaker 5: I did with any reasonable person not trying to die,
Speaker 5: I would have done hadn't seen what I saw. I
Speaker 5: knew I gotta do something that made myself a part
Speaker 5: of what's going on, and I wasn't physically able to
Speaker 5: do nothing to prevent myself from being killed and impressed it.
Speaker 5: That was the smartest thing that I could have done
Speaker 5: at the time for myself instead of doing nothing.
Speaker 1: If you had done nothing at all. What do you
Speaker 1: think Slim and Hondo would have done?
Speaker 5: I was a little bit too afraid to find out.
Speaker 5: I was in a position where something happened to my
Speaker 5: friend and hand me. You know where I stood, and
Speaker 5: I did what I'm day to do for morsel. They're
Speaker 5: not too forward.
Speaker 7: Now.
Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by Paul Weiss Rifkin, Porton and Garrison,
Speaker 1: a leading international law firm. Paul Weiss has long had
Speaker 1: an unwavering commitment to providing impactful, pro bono legal assistance
Speaker 1: to the most vulnerable members of our society and in
Speaker 1: support of the public interest, including extensive work in the
Speaker 1: criminal justice area. Otis's murder eventually gets pinned on you,
Speaker 1: the guy who was only able to watch or listen
Speaker 1: helplessly as your friend got stabbed to death, and then,
Speaker 1: in order to save your own life, you did would
Speaker 1: probably some of us would have done. You played along
Speaker 1: with Slim and Hondo until you could get away. I
Speaker 1: would not want to have been in your shoes at
Speaker 1: that point. You just lost your brand. Otis. You had
Speaker 1: to contend with the question of to snitch or not
Speaker 1: to snitch on like a Sophie's choice. On these two
Speaker 1: murderous drug dealers.
Speaker 5: And that's when I was trying to process whatever it
Speaker 5: just happened to show. Six thirty seven o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 5: that's when I saw the police. I told that I
Speaker 5: knew where that was. One always said come over here,
Speaker 5: and look they moved it blanket. I knew it was.
Speaker 5: I said, I know where he lives, to the little
Speaker 5: mother's house. And then when we came back to the scene,
Speaker 5: I asked my saying, look if I had any information,
Speaker 5: talk on my contract, and he gave me his car.
Speaker 5: I took your car, rode miles two whiles and I
Speaker 5: went to the phone booth and then I called the police.
Speaker 5: She lived, and I told everything the thing he knew
Speaker 5: and told him while I was at they came and
Speaker 5: picked me up, took me out to the station. They
Speaker 5: let me go back home.
Speaker 1: So you made a statement to a sergeant, Sergeant Preston,
Speaker 1: and you're going to be a witness, and Steve, maybe
Speaker 1: you can tell us about the next part of the story,
Speaker 1: which is how Kevin was picked up for cocaine possession.
Speaker 1: Sometime later, and while in the state's witness holding area
Speaker 1: of La County Jail, he eventually meets three guys who
Speaker 1: are responsible for him being in this horrible predicament today.
Speaker 4: What happened was Kevin got arrested for a possession of
Speaker 4: cocaine charge and because he was the main witness against
Speaker 4: Slim and Hondo on a murder case, they put him
Speaker 4: in with other prosecution witnesses and it's commonly called the
Speaker 4: snitch Tank, which is a separate jail from the men's
Speaker 4: central jail. And while Kevin was in there, he told
Speaker 4: his cellmate to Willie Battle and the guy that was
Speaker 4: and the next sel over, Jesse Williams. He told them
Speaker 4: what actually happened because they asked, and that's very common
Speaker 4: in jail, what are he in for? And they exchanged information,
Speaker 4: but this time it only came from Kevin. He told
Speaker 4: them what happened, and they twisted it around and ran
Speaker 4: with it. And then they called the Compton Police Department
Speaker 4: and asked them if they had a murder case where
Speaker 4: the body was found by a canal. They called it
Speaker 4: a canal, it's really a drainage ditch. And they put
Speaker 4: him in contact with Detective Marvin Branscombe, who was not
Speaker 4: Sergeant Preston, who Kevin gave the statement to and they
Speaker 4: convinced Branscomb that what they had to say was true,
Speaker 4: which they said that Kevin confessed to these tempting murders
Speaker 4: and murder.
Speaker 5: They say, we got a guy out of here bragging
Speaker 5: about chilling his guy and sad with lady telling big time,
Speaker 5: don't kill it. So I end up going from being
Speaker 5: the actual witness now mean that actual killer.
Speaker 4: So Kevin became a defendant instead of the prosecution witness.
Speaker 4: And they moved him out of the snitch tank to
Speaker 4: another part of the jail. So Kevin's transferred over to
Speaker 4: the central jail, and then he met a very notorious
Speaker 4: snitch named Leslie White. And I get a call from
Speaker 4: Leslie White. I'd never heard of Leslie White. Leslie White says,
Speaker 4: I understand you're defending Kevin Dykes and that he has
Speaker 4: been ratted out by two snitches. And I said that's
Speaker 4: exactly right. He says, well, I can help you. You
Speaker 4: come down here and I'm going to tell you all
Speaker 4: about the snitch system and how it works. Okay, So
Speaker 4: I go down to the jail. I talked to Leslie White.
Speaker 4: He tells me about how inmates get a hold of
Speaker 4: paperwork and change facts and get a hold of the
Speaker 4: detective or DA that's handling a particular murder case. And
Speaker 4: because they know these unique facts, they can convince the
Speaker 4: detective or district attorney that's handling the case that this
Speaker 4: confession was a valid confession. So I said, well, that
Speaker 4: sounds good, Okay, I'll put you on the witness list,
Speaker 4: mister White. So about a week or two later, I
Speaker 4: get the witness list from the district attorney and Leslie
Speaker 4: White is on there as a people's witness. And not
Speaker 4: only that, I get a report that says that Kevin
Speaker 4: Dyke's confessed to Leslie White. And I'm flabbergasted because I
Speaker 4: just talked to Leslie White and he was going to
Speaker 4: be a witness for Kevin. So I go down to
Speaker 4: the jail and I call out Leslie White and he's
Speaker 4: willing to come and talk to me, and I said,
Speaker 4: what do you are? You a witness for the prosecution?
Speaker 4: Now he says yep. I said, well, you know that
Speaker 4: Kevin's innocent. Why are you doing what?
Speaker 5: How can you do that?
Speaker 4: And he says, well, man's got to do what he
Speaker 4: got to do. That's what he said.
Speaker 1: I gotta be honest. My head is spinning. And I
Speaker 1: didn't even live through this. I mean, this is Kevin.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm so sorry that you're living this is that,
Speaker 1: this is your life we're talking about.
Speaker 5: I didn't actually believe that what was going on was
Speaker 5: even possible. I didn't think that this sub would hold.
Speaker 5: I'm like, what old, I am an actual eye witness.
Speaker 5: These guys they don't know nothing about where illy, but
Speaker 5: nothing about what actually happened. So I didn't really believe
Speaker 5: the people could do what they were what they were
Speaker 5: doing to me. I had never even heard about that before.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is like nothing. I don't
Speaker 1: think we've ever heard a story like this before. So Steven,
Speaker 1: what happens next?
Speaker 4: When we got to court, all they had was his
Speaker 4: statement to Sergeant Preston and three snitches, and I couldn't
Speaker 4: believe that they would even want to proceed with this evidence,
Speaker 4: but they did, And just before the verdict was issued,
Speaker 4: I told Kevin, I said, now, Kevin, when you get
Speaker 4: out of here, you've got to change your ways, be
Speaker 4: a law abiding citizen and then used to society and
Speaker 4: he said, yeah, came mister Houser, I'm going to do that,
Speaker 4: came back guilty. We were both floored.
Speaker 1: You were sentenced to twenty four years to life. Here
Speaker 1: it is now twenty twenty. You're still in Could you
Speaker 1: just take us back there, put us in that courtroom
Speaker 1: with you, if you can.
Speaker 5: I actually could not believe the verdant. Yeah. I actually
Speaker 5: didn't a crying. I just see how it was possible. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I was after I witness, I came for I gave
Speaker 5: everything they needed, all evidence to call the weapons. The
Speaker 5: people from testify that I didn't attacking. People will stand
Speaker 5: like thirty three times and he test fighted I didn't attacking,
Speaker 5: and it test five that I didn't attack Ms Brandy,
Speaker 5: that was my friend mother. There was nobody here to
Speaker 5: stay out, okay, anybody.
Speaker 1: But and this is something I really need to highlight here,
Speaker 1: which is that if you go in a jury box
Speaker 1: and you're presented with a case where someone's life is
Speaker 1: hanging into balance, just like Kevin's was, and there's no
Speaker 1: evidence connecting that person's at a crime except for the
Speaker 1: testimony of a snitch, you cannot vote to convict because
Speaker 1: it's crazy. I mean, these are people who are clearly incentivized.
Speaker 1: They may not tell you that at the time. But
Speaker 1: you have to understand that the defense can never bribe
Speaker 1: a witness. That's it. That's a crime punishable by long
Speaker 1: time in jail. But the government can make a deal
Speaker 1: with a snitch to reduce their charges or drop their
Speaker 1: charges in exchange for testimony. And that is the best
Speaker 1: bribe of all. So it's the most unreliable testimony imaginable.
Speaker 1: And here you have a case where the direct evidence
Speaker 1: contradicts what the Niches were saying. The evidence showed that
Speaker 1: Kevin could not have committed this crime, and yet he
Speaker 1: ends up getting convicted on the testimony of people who
Speaker 1: were notoriously untrustworthy and were it sent device to lie
Speaker 1: mister Alvan.
Speaker 5: Frown evidence where they get apartments, they say, oh, he's
Speaker 5: bet in my family, So the government gives him money
Speaker 5: to relocate them movement apartments. All of them ended up
Speaker 5: getting reduced to Leslie White ended up getting out at
Speaker 5: such five and gives me, I don't know if you
Speaker 5: remember this one thousands He came right back any threatened
Speaker 5: the Asian attorney. If you don't bake me back out,
Speaker 5: I'm gonna blow his whole case up.
Speaker 4: You remember what happened was Leslie White then went on
Speaker 4: sixty minutes when he was back in again in the jail,
Speaker 4: and he showed on camera how he could work his
Speaker 4: magic and get favors from DA. And then when I
Speaker 4: saw that, I went down and talked to Leslie White.
Speaker 4: I said, well, now I know for sure you lied
Speaker 4: in Kevin's case, and he says, yeah, I did. And
Speaker 4: I said, well, I want you to sign an affidavit
Speaker 4: that you lied in Kevin's case because Kevin deserves a
Speaker 4: new trial. And so sure enough he signed it. But
Speaker 4: instead of giving Kevin a new trial, the DA indicted him.
Speaker 4: Leslie White with a grand jury, had me come in
Speaker 4: and testify, and they gave Leslie White four years for perjury.
Speaker 4: They gave Kevin Dykes nothing. And that's where it sat.
Speaker 4: It's all so backwards and upside down.
Speaker 1: And of course, you know, we have two more characters
Speaker 1: that are coming up, with Gigi Gordon, who's on the
Speaker 1: right side of this story, and Willie Battles. We can't
Speaker 1: leave him out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, when this snitch system came out, thanks to Leslie White,
Speaker 4: believe it or not, Gigi Gordon was appointed. She's a
Speaker 4: defense lawyer see now, but she was a criminal defense
Speaker 4: lawyer friend of mine, and Jesi Gordon was appointed by
Speaker 4: i think the Supreme Court to do an independent investigation
Speaker 4: on all of the snitch cases to see if justice
Speaker 4: was done. And she spent over a year on this project,
Speaker 4: being paid by the state of California. And as a
Speaker 4: result of Jiji Gordon's research and investigation, a law was
Speaker 4: introduced in the legislature to require corroboration if snitch testimony
Speaker 4: is going to be used in a case.
Speaker 1: And that happened, but they didn't do it retroactively. Am
Speaker 1: I getting that right? Because it always drives me nuts
Speaker 1: when we change a law in this country and we
Speaker 1: don't do it retroactively.
Speaker 4: How could it be different now than it was before.
Speaker 4: It doesn't make sense. Didn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 4: That's why I appealed it. We went to the Pellate
Speaker 4: Court in California, then the Supreme Court. Actually, when we
Speaker 4: went to the Supreme Court the first time, the law
Speaker 4: had not been changed yet. But then we went back
Speaker 4: to the Supreme Court on another issue and the law
Speaker 4: had been changed. And in federal court the judge actually
Speaker 4: said that Kevin might be innocent, but there's nothing I
Speaker 4: can do because this law is not retroactive or something
Speaker 4: to that effect. And I just thought that that was
Speaker 4: the most unjust result I've ever had in my whole career.
Speaker 1: Still is wow.
Speaker 4: And so if Kevin's case were tried now, they wouldn't
Speaker 4: have any evidence against him because the only incriminating evidence
Speaker 4: was from the snitch testimony.
Speaker 1: If Kevin's case were to be tried now, they would
Speaker 1: have no evidence against him. And yet it's thirty four
Speaker 1: years later and he's I can't this is nuts.
Speaker 4: I went to the district attorney with that very argument.
Speaker 4: With each new district attorney that came in, I would
Speaker 4: go talk to him, and they told me that because
Speaker 4: of his statement admitting what he did pretending to go
Speaker 4: along with what Islam and Honda were doing, because of
Speaker 4: that statement, that made him guilty. And they said, sorry,
Speaker 4: you have to present new evidence to us before we're
Speaker 4: going to recommend anything for Kevin. And I said, what's
Speaker 4: the matter with these confessions by these snitches, that's new
Speaker 4: evidence at least since the trial. Two out of three
Speaker 4: Leslie White signed an affidavit that sent him put himself
Speaker 4: in prison, and Jesse Williams signed a letter saying that
Speaker 4: he lied in Kevin's case. He said, no, we want
Speaker 4: some more than that. Plus you've got one snitch that
Speaker 4: you don't have, you know, retraction from Willy Battle. We
Speaker 4: never had a retraction from him, and Willy Battle I
Speaker 4: tried to find but he's probably dead. So that's where
Speaker 4: we sit.
Speaker 1: And what is the outlook now, I mean, is there
Speaker 1: a hope?
Speaker 4: I think Kevin has two hopes, parole and with a
Speaker 4: new DA. I thought Jackie Lacy was very progressive and
Speaker 4: I had high hopes for Kevin when she put together
Speaker 4: her Internal Innocent project and I met with what I
Speaker 4: thought was a very ethical, fine lawyer, and I got
Speaker 4: a very unfavorable result. And I asked him during that hearing,
Speaker 4: I said, you know, as a human being, you know,
Speaker 4: do you really think that Kevin Dykes was convicted properly fairly?
Speaker 4: He wouldn't answer. He wouldn't give me an answer.
Speaker 1: Nearly a year has gone by since we originally released
Speaker 1: this episode in September twenty twenty, and shortly thereafter in
Speaker 1: La County, George Gascon was elected DA. And Steve, last
Speaker 1: time we spoke, you said that one of the only
Speaker 1: avenues left for a leaf for Kevin was that very
Speaker 1: election victory. So you must have been really excited when
Speaker 1: it became clear that Jackie Lacy was on her way
Speaker 1: out and George Gascon was on his way in. I'm
Speaker 1: imagining you must have jumped right into action on the
Speaker 1: first business day of twenty twenty one, that.
Speaker 4: Is correct, on January fourth, twenty twenty one, I sent
Speaker 4: a letter to George Gascon the New DA alerting him
Speaker 4: to Kevin's situation, and I was contacted shortly thereafter by
Speaker 4: a deputy in his conviction integrity unit. She said that
Speaker 4: she had reviewed the case and she agreed with the
Speaker 4: former head of their integrity unit under Jackie Lacy that
Speaker 4: taking out all of the snitch testimony and just focusing
Speaker 4: in on Kevin's statement both to the police and what
Speaker 4: he testified to a trial, which were both consistent, that
Speaker 4: she felt that he was guilty because of what he
Speaker 4: said he shared in the criminal intent to kill his
Speaker 4: friend Otis, which I think was not reasonable. I don't
Speaker 4: understand how a deputy district attorney can look at the
Speaker 4: facts in this case, focusing on Kevin's own testimony and
Speaker 4: come to the conclusion that he intended Otis's death, that
Speaker 4: he wanted Otis to die, or that he wanted his
Speaker 4: friend Ephram to die or Missus Bradley to die. Now,
Speaker 4: Ephram testified in court that Kevin was not a part
Speaker 4: of the assault on his person or Missus Bradley. For
Speaker 4: the district attorney to believe that Kevin convicted himself based
Speaker 4: on his testimony of both the murder and the attempted
Speaker 4: murders is beyond belief. For a second degree murder, there
Speaker 4: has to be criminal intent. You have to share in
Speaker 4: the intent of the stabbers in this case, Slim and
Speaker 4: Hondo to kill Otis, and there's no proof of that
Speaker 4: from Kevin's lips. The only evidence of that is from
Speaker 4: snitch testimony, which under today's law would be inadmissible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and with good reason. I mean, let's face it,
Speaker 1: snitch testimony for the state is almost always incentivized by
Speaker 1: leniency in the snitch's charges, making that testimony as unreliable
Speaker 1: as it could be. So this deputy in Gascoon CiU
Speaker 1: wants to preserve this conviction, saying that Kevin's test some
Speaker 1: money reaches the burden of proof for criminal intent, when
Speaker 1: in reality, Kevin was essentially a hostage of Slim and
Speaker 1: Hondo until he could finally get away. I mean, had
Speaker 1: he not gone along with everything that happened in the
Speaker 1: aftermath of Otis's death, Slim and Hondo would have been
Speaker 1: dumping both Kevin and Otis's bodies and we wouldn't even
Speaker 1: be having this conversation or know what Slim and Hondo did.
Speaker 1: So what was the end result of your discussion with
Speaker 1: Gascon's deputy. Were you able to work anything out?
Speaker 4: After several back and forth conversations, she was going to
Speaker 4: bring a motion for resentencing. This was apparently a new
Speaker 4: law where they could go back into the trial court
Speaker 4: and petitioned for a change of sentence. She said that
Speaker 4: if Kevin would agree to change his plea from murder
Speaker 4: to manslaughter, that they would go along with it, and
Speaker 4: that he could then be sentenced to whatever the maximum
Speaker 4: on manslaughter was, which is a lot less than thirty
Speaker 4: five years that he's been in. So we're still waiting
Speaker 4: for that. I don't know what's happened, but the district
Speaker 4: attorney that I was talking to called me and told
Speaker 4: me that there was some problem with them making this
Speaker 4: motion because some judge might deny it. Or she wasn't
Speaker 4: real clear on that, but that she invited me to
Speaker 4: think of a way to get around the judge having
Speaker 4: to make a decision to get Kevin out. So I suggested, well,
Speaker 4: how about if I file another rid of habeas corpus
Speaker 4: and if the district attorney doesn't oppose it, then the
Speaker 4: judge can grant him a new trial. And once he
Speaker 4: gets a new trial, then they can dismiss the case
Speaker 4: because they don't have any evidence. They don't have any
Speaker 4: admissible evidence, right The.
Speaker 1: Only evidence they had back then was the snitch testimony,
Speaker 1: which was totally uncorroborated and therefore now inadmissible under the
Speaker 1: law that resulted from Leslie white sixty minutes and the
Speaker 1: sequent investigation, not to mention that Jesse Williams recanted, Leslie
Speaker 1: White took a perjury charge and four years to undo
Speaker 1: his damage to Kevin, and Willie Battles is presumed dead
Speaker 1: or he might have done the same. So are they
Speaker 1: gonna move forward with your habeas idea or are they
Speaker 1: looking for something better to hang their hat on? Considering
Speaker 1: that your idea would prove that this conviction has absolutely
Speaker 1: no integrity.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure what's going to happen. It seems like
Speaker 4: that they're just waiting for the parole hearing.
Speaker 1: Right, Kevin is up for parole at the beginning of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two.
Speaker 4: And if the DA's office does not oppose parole, he
Speaker 4: will probably get released on parole. However, he will be
Speaker 4: on parole for the rest of his life for a
Speaker 4: crime that he did not commit, as well as having
Speaker 4: served thirty five years for a crime that he did
Speaker 4: not commit. I think that George Gascon himself has not
Speaker 4: heard the evidence in this case. Once he realizes exactly
Speaker 4: what went on in this case, I'm sure that he
Speaker 4: will see that justice is done and Kevin will get released.
Speaker 1: That's our hope as well. And anyone in our audience
Speaker 1: who feels the same way, and I hope all of
Speaker 1: you do, can scroll down to the link in the bio.
Speaker 1: There's a petition to George Cascon to do just that.
Speaker 1: He's a good man and he's a very reasonable person.
Speaker 1: I mean, really, I honestly like to clone George. He's
Speaker 1: that kind of guy. We hope that he and others
Speaker 1: in his office can come around to our view. Kevin
Speaker 1: would admit to anyone that he wasn't living with really
Speaker 1: honorable life at that point. But in fact, ironically, it
Speaker 1: was at this moment in his life that he did
Speaker 1: something truly honorable. He went to Otis's mother and then
Speaker 1: to the police to do the right thing. Does that
Speaker 1: sound like the actions of someone possessing criminal intent?
Speaker 5: I know I need the right things. When I went
Speaker 5: to the police, handing them to hide throw the food in,
Speaker 5: I tow the food fir and jury. Even now, I
Speaker 5: don't regret during the right thing because it was my
Speaker 5: friend's life and it was important for his mother to
Speaker 5: know the truth what happened to her son. Maybe I
Speaker 5: wouldn't say that while I'm in jail. It cost me
Speaker 5: a lot. I've lost like seventeen family members. My mom's
Speaker 5: had a stroke a few years ago. Now, it cost
Speaker 5: me a lot, but I was still doing it even
Speaker 5: after all this time. I found Lord the last five years,
Speaker 5: so I'm at peace finally with God and myself. So
Speaker 5: now it's like, you know what, there's nothing I can
Speaker 5: do about what they've done. I'm not gonna let them
Speaker 5: take what's left that I got in my spirit. And
Speaker 5: now my family is proud of me. Even though I've
Speaker 5: never done nothing because I've saved my life. So I'm
Speaker 5: gonna keep pushing. I'm gonna keep the leaving like I
Speaker 5: got to so all I got.
Speaker 1: And with that we will now go to closing arguments
Speaker 1: as they still ring true today with justice delayed in
Speaker 1: this case. I first of all, thank you both. Turn
Speaker 1: my microphone off, leave my headphones on, close my eyes,
Speaker 1: and let you both talk about whatever you want for
Speaker 1: the last few minutes of the show. Kevin, We're gonna
Speaker 1: save you for last if that's okay. And Stephen, please
Speaker 1: just share whatever it is that's on your mind.
Speaker 4: Well, Kevin, let's hope this is another step to get
Speaker 4: you out of prison. It's been a long, long road,
Speaker 4: but I won't give up ever.
Speaker 1: And Kevin, over to you.
Speaker 5: I'm thankful, you know, and it's just taking me a
Speaker 5: long time. But I'm like the last five years now
Speaker 5: and my life now, few have purpose and meaning fight
Speaker 5: what they've done. I owe no feel feelings, force, nobody.
Speaker 5: He is what he is all I've lost, My lost
Speaker 5: my life. I was twenty four years old, I'm six now.
Speaker 5: I've been seen over five years. So it's like there's
Speaker 5: nothing else that I can't do because I don't consult it,
Speaker 5: but I won't let what they've done to me back
Speaker 5: then the something to me.
Speaker 7: Now.
Speaker 5: I'm free, you know, inside, and I'm at teaching, and
Speaker 5: even if I die in here, I'll be at peace
Speaker 5: knowing I stood for the soup into woman. I need
Speaker 5: the right thing as an adult. So my parents were problem.
Speaker 5: There's nothing I can do but keep my mind focusing, Oh,
Speaker 5: what's possible, what could be possible, and how to help out.
Speaker 7: It's a human opportunity to this god family in my
Speaker 7: community where I see them. You know, I won't let
Speaker 7: nothing take that from me. That's how I have and
Speaker 7: I appreciate everything that you guys are doing, and I
Speaker 7: appreciate support from anybody, whether the governor wherever.
Speaker 6: It can be done to help me. It is just
Speaker 6: a hoof the absolutely in front of people, and they
Speaker 6: let them decided. So I need to be punished for what.
Speaker 5: I needed if they say so, because I opportunate, but hey,
Speaker 5: I was worried for my life. Say it for my
Speaker 5: life at the time, but I did what I believe
Speaker 5: he was writing, and I don't really doing it.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm.
Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence projects and go to the
Speaker 1: link in our bio to see how you can help.
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff
Speaker 1: Clyburn and Kevin Warnis. The music on the show, as always,
Speaker 1: is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be
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Speaker 1: Flahm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and
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