Speaker 1: Since our initial release of Kevin Dyke's story, there have
Speaker 1: been some new developments, and this is a re release
Speaker 1: of that story with new content. As a child in
Speaker 1: the late nineteen seventies, Kevin Dyke's accidentally killed his best
Speaker 1: friend when they were playing with a gun, sending him
Speaker 1: to Juvie for involuntary manslaughter. When he got out, he
Speaker 1: turned to petty drug dealing in Compton, California. Fast forward
Speaker 1: to six After a terrible assault that led to a
Speaker 1: four month hospital stint, Kevin continued peddling drugs from his
Speaker 1: temporary wheelchair for two men named Slim and Hondo. Kevin
Speaker 1: rented a bed in a trailer home in his landlord's driveway,
Speaker 1: where Slim and Hondo occasionally hit weapons. That June, two
Speaker 1: incidents occurred just days apart, resulting in one murder and
Speaker 1: two attempted murders. The first during a party when Kevin
Speaker 1: booted his friend from for being belligerently drunk, Slim and
Speaker 1: Hondo folowy from stabbing him several times. A neighborhood mother,
Speaker 1: Mrs Bradley, came to eat from the aid, only to
Speaker 1: gets dabbed as well. Kevin intervened jumping from his wheelchair
Speaker 1: to stop the assault before it turned fatal. A few
Speaker 1: days later, Slim and Hondo accused Kevin's friend Otis Perry
Speaker 1: of stealing their gun from Kevin's trailer home, stabbing him
Speaker 1: eighty one times. Unable to stop the murderous frenzy and
Speaker 1: fearing for his own life, Kevin helped them clean up
Speaker 1: before going to the police a few hours later. A
Speaker 1: few days after that, Kevin was arrested for cocaine possession
Speaker 1: and put into a special holding tank for state's witnesses.
Speaker 1: Then three jailhouse snitches claimed that Kevin had confessed to
Speaker 1: all three attacks in exchange for leniency in their own cases.
Speaker 1: Kevin Dike's is serving life in prison on the word
Speaker 1: of three notorious jailhouse snitches. This is wrongful conviction with
Speaker 1: Jason Flam This is Global till Link. You have a
Speaker 1: prepaid call from and inmate at the California State Prison,
Speaker 1: Los Angeles County, Lancaster, California. Let's call and to our
Speaker 1: telephone number will be monitored and recorded. To accept this call,
Speaker 1: stay or dial five now. Thank you for using Global
Speaker 1: till Link. Welcome back to run for conviction with Jason
Speaker 1: Flam Today. We have an incredible story, so we're gonna
Speaker 1: get right into it, and I'm gonna introduce you first
Speaker 1: to Stephen kay Howser. He's a criminal defense attorney representing
Speaker 1: the star of this episode, Kevin Dyke. Stephen, Welcome to
Speaker 1: ronfle Conviction. Thank you glad to be here. And Kevin
Speaker 1: Dykes is on the phone with us from prison, and
Speaker 1: I hope we'll be able to do something about his
Speaker 1: situation because it is awful. Kevin. I'm sorry you're here
Speaker 1: um or where you are, but I'm happy you're here
Speaker 1: with us today. So thank you for being here. Thank
Speaker 1: you for the avatory. This case goes back to Compton,
Speaker 1: and it's got It's got so much that you'll think
Speaker 1: I'm talking about a movie script that would be too
Speaker 1: much to be believed, except for it's real. It's got
Speaker 1: gangster's name Hondo and Slim. It's got drugs, it's got
Speaker 1: snitches that ended up on sixty minutes. It's got laws
Speaker 1: that changed, and and victims who testified that this was
Speaker 1: not the guy who did it. It's got a guy
Speaker 1: who's in prison for three and a half decades with
Speaker 1: no evidence against him except the testimony of jail house
Speaker 1: snitches who have recanted their testimony. It is nuts, but
Speaker 1: it's true. So let's get right into it. And Kevin,
Speaker 1: let's start with you going back to your youth, because
Speaker 1: you grew up in Compton, right, Yes, I go up
Speaker 1: at home in the water sports. I actually had a
Speaker 1: real good of them until I, uh, I think you're
Speaker 1: actually say, I end up at my best friend work
Speaker 1: for abolistine mand father and I will sit away. And
Speaker 1: for those of you who don't know why a or
Speaker 1: see why I used the California US Authority, as I
Speaker 1: understand it, your friend's death was entirely accidental, just two
Speaker 1: kids who made a big mistake playing with a gun.
Speaker 1: But they still sent you away to juvie for involuntary manslaughter.
Speaker 1: And I also understand that you harbor a lot of
Speaker 1: guilt about this, even though the family forgave you. Yes,
Speaker 1: this family, they stayed directly across the street from my family,
Speaker 1: even to the day, still feeling the same three although
Speaker 1: the family has given me written me letters will come
Speaker 1: and see me. When I got out, I saw what
Speaker 1: I did to that family, and I didn't know how
Speaker 1: to process. Although my mother and my father and my
Speaker 1: grandmother and all kinds of people will finally help me.
Speaker 1: I didn't know how to ask for their help that
Speaker 1: I actually need, so I got secrets as little digreen
Speaker 1: to the game. So so the guilt kind of derailed
Speaker 1: your potential, it seems. And after Juvie, you start dealing
Speaker 1: drugs and looking outside of what seemed like a supportive
Speaker 1: home for whatever it was that you felt you needed, acceptance, identity, whatever,
Speaker 1: out in the street. So fast forward to Janu some
Speaker 1: other really bad stuff happens. January. We try to chee
Speaker 1: them in the front of my house. I followed them.
Speaker 1: They ran me through a brick wall, and they broke
Speaker 1: my ear to smash my films. So I wanted to hospital. January.
Speaker 1: When I got in the hospital, I was in a
Speaker 1: wheelch here and I had a walk and I was
Speaker 1: going to a therapy. Yes, someone tried to kidnap Kevin.
Speaker 1: So you fought them off, and they ended up hitting
Speaker 1: you with their car against a brick wall, broke your hips,
Speaker 1: snapped your pelvis, and put you in the hospital for
Speaker 1: four months. I mean, you're lucky to even be alive.
Speaker 1: And we haven't even gotten to the part that has
Speaker 1: you locked up right now. Okay, so it's may. You're
Speaker 1: temporarily in this wheelchair doing physical therapy and dealing drugs
Speaker 1: for these two mid level management drug dealers named Slim
Speaker 1: and Hondo. Slim and Hondo decided that they were going
Speaker 1: to take over the local drug sales. I believe they
Speaker 1: helped Kevin and some of his friends with small amounts
Speaker 1: of cocaine to sell in the neighborhood. And they would
Speaker 1: periodically show up and I guess resupply the local sellers,
Speaker 1: including Kevin and Kevin. You were renting a place to
Speaker 1: stay from a man named Mr. Bryce. You were renting
Speaker 1: a bed in this mobile home that sat in his driveway, right, Yes,
Speaker 1: I was. We had a mobile overhead like six days,
Speaker 1: you know, a shower and all that stuff inside. It
Speaker 1: was talking the driveway. Sometimes. My friends to stay had
Speaker 1: like six places fleeing in so all this come in
Speaker 1: sleeping here. And Otis is Otis Perry who occasionally stayed
Speaker 1: at Mr Bryce's mobile home, and he's the one that
Speaker 1: was eventually stabbed like slimon Hondo for taking the gun
Speaker 1: that they had left in the trailer the night that
Speaker 1: these two attempted murders occurred outside a party at Mr
Speaker 1: Bryce's house. Yes, my cousin and famil was inside the
Speaker 1: mobile hole. I was inside the house where the party was,
Speaker 1: saying when the fighting? When the fight after? So I
Speaker 1: didn't know without doing at the time SI pulls up.
Speaker 1: They knew with the price didn't allow goes in his house.
Speaker 1: What do you here to go on in the mobile
Speaker 1: hole with my cousin. But actually didn't know that about
Speaker 1: that at that time. Okay, so now the stage is
Speaker 1: finally set for these crimes to take place. This is
Speaker 1: we're talking June. There's a little party going on at
Speaker 1: Mr Bryce's. Your friend Otis and your cousin Pam are
Speaker 1: in the mobile home in the driveway. Slim and Hondo,
Speaker 1: your bosses come to hang out, but out of respect
Speaker 1: for Mr Bryce, they leave their gun in the mobile home.
Speaker 1: Then your friend is at the party and he is drunk,
Speaker 1: to say the least. Well in my older homeboy, he
Speaker 1: was being pliterate and uh messal with the females. I
Speaker 1: was up in their grabbing drinks that didn't belong to him,
Speaker 1: and I saw man go down to the pool man
Speaker 1: keep that I got and he kept on so I
Speaker 1: got piste off and I hate him Wance and when
Speaker 1: I hated him hand slim both of them attacks because
Speaker 1: of them my here's what they said. He said. I
Speaker 1: didn't understand why did they get involved in there? Here's
Speaker 1: what they said, because I should barely walk. They were
Speaker 1: people were taking advantage of my disability. Okay, so your
Speaker 1: drug bosses are sticking up for you, but then they
Speaker 1: go way beyond what you would ever want them to do. Yes,
Speaker 1: So once I start from both of them attacking, I
Speaker 1: got them to stop. Told he fromly. He left and
Speaker 1: then they staying down the street. They called him at
Speaker 1: the end of the corner. Once I got down there,
Speaker 1: I saw that they was actually stabbing. When I Hanzo
Speaker 1: leaving alone, Hondo, he looked up and saw me. But
Speaker 1: when he saw me, he saw him. This Bradley behind
Speaker 1: me was Bradley is my older homes mother. When she
Speaker 1: looked up and saw that it was her son, she
Speaker 1: tried to turn it around. He ran her down, grabbed
Speaker 1: her by her dressed and saw a stabbing. I hopped
Speaker 1: my way to him and grabbed him to seat him
Speaker 1: off of her. And once I was holding him, she
Speaker 1: got loose. This day from time to get up, and
Speaker 1: then I got to rist them to geeted to the
Speaker 1: car and drove him off. I drove off to a
Speaker 1: motive and then I came back to Czechos from him,
Speaker 1: Miss Bradley. But the hammer has already when it was
Speaker 1: in the hospital. So you basically saved Mrs Bradley and
Speaker 1: I from from being murdered by Slim and Hondo by
Speaker 1: convincing them to stop stabbing them and drive away from
Speaker 1: the scene. But this incident on June nine is what
Speaker 1: becomes two charges of attempted murder that gets stuck on you.
Speaker 1: The guy confined to a wheelchair at the time. Um, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So Slim and Hondo stabbed both from and Mrs Bradley.
Speaker 1: You drove them to a motel. At some point, your
Speaker 1: friend Otis back at the mobile home, takes the guns
Speaker 1: Slim and Hondo had left behind. Not too smart, by
Speaker 1: the way, because Slim and Hondo knew who was in
Speaker 1: the mobile home when they stashed it in the first place.
Speaker 1: So they come looking for Otis on June over looking
Speaker 1: for Otis like, well, something in the morning, they should
Speaker 1: come outside. I'm going to go to your OLiS. I
Speaker 1: didn't know oasis out here in the motor hole. So
Speaker 1: when I went out to the front yard, Jordan the
Speaker 1: motor open, older step out Hanold's catched otis get me
Speaker 1: in with my guy. He said, we can go get it.
Speaker 1: He said too late, and then at catching they started fighting.
Speaker 1: As the fighting back. When they were fighting from the
Speaker 1: side of the mover hole, he went around the garage
Speaker 1: and that was the first time I saw him being
Speaker 1: stand and I came back from around there. I wasn't
Speaker 1: nable the one or whatever from get to say nothing
Speaker 1: and the listening to everything that was going on, and
Speaker 1: I don't know how the must time pass, but James
Speaker 1: Hanold's care from around there and with no more noise,
Speaker 1: I was wondering, okay, now what you said? Uh wolls up?
Speaker 1: You got so recue And I gave him my blanket
Speaker 1: so he must sit with behind the day and wrapped
Speaker 1: him up, drugg him out and put him in the
Speaker 1: car and instead of him a slim boys, he said,
Speaker 1: you said, you stay here and watch that all the
Speaker 1: bood that was coming from behind the move hole and
Speaker 1: show me to get in the car and ride with him.
Speaker 1: So I took knowing through my awways neighborhood by the canel,
Speaker 1: and that's where he jumped in, and I feel if
Speaker 1: I'll be back, I left it the same day. And
Speaker 1: what would you tell anyone listening now who's wondering why
Speaker 1: you played any part in getting rid of the body
Speaker 1: with Slimming Hondo? I did with any reasonable person, not
Speaker 1: finding that I would have done hadn't seen what I saw.
Speaker 1: I knew I gotta do something that made myself a
Speaker 1: partner what's going on. And I wasn't asically be able
Speaker 1: to do nothing to prevent myself from being killed. And I,
Speaker 1: like Spist said, that was the smartest thing that I
Speaker 1: toil done at the time for myself instead of doing nothing.
Speaker 1: If you had done nothing at all, what do you
Speaker 1: think Slimming Hondo would have done? I was a little
Speaker 1: bit too afraid to find out. I was in a
Speaker 1: position where something happened to my friend and Ros, and
Speaker 1: I need what I'm probable the best thing to do
Speaker 1: for myself now. This episode is underwritten by Paul Weiss Rifkin,
Speaker 1: Wharton and Garrison, a leading international law firm. Paul Weiss
Speaker 1: has long had an unwavering commitment to providing impactful pro
Speaker 1: bono legal assistance to the most vulnerable members of our
Speaker 1: society and in support of the public interest, including extensive
Speaker 1: work in the criminal justice area. Otis is murder eventually
Speaker 1: gets pinned on you, the guy who was only able
Speaker 1: to watch or listen helplessly as your friend got stabbed
Speaker 1: at dead. And then, in order to save your own life,
Speaker 1: you did would probably of us would have done. You
Speaker 1: played along with Slim and Hondo until you could get away.
Speaker 1: I would not want to have been in your shoes
Speaker 1: at that point. You just lost your brand odors. You
Speaker 1: had to contend with the question of to snitch or
Speaker 1: not to snitche on like a Sophie's choice on these
Speaker 1: two murderous drug dealers. And that's when I was trying
Speaker 1: to process whatever it just happened to the show six
Speaker 1: study Semifock in the morning, That's when I saw the
Speaker 1: poet and I told that h think I know where
Speaker 1: that was what always says, come over here and look
Speaker 1: like blanking. I knew it was. I said, I know
Speaker 1: where it is attle mother's house. And then when we
Speaker 1: came back and see I asked my fail if I
Speaker 1: had any information two contract and he gave me his car.
Speaker 1: I took the car road mouths two whiles and I
Speaker 1: went to the phone boof and then I called the post.
Speaker 1: You look, and I told everything the thing needs to
Speaker 1: know and told a while was that they came and
Speaker 1: kicked me up, took me out to the station, and
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe did let me go back home? So
Speaker 1: you made a statement to a sergeant, Sergeant Preston, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna be a witness. And Steve, maybe you can
Speaker 1: tell us about the next part of the story, which
Speaker 1: is how Kevin was picked up for cocaine possession. Sometime later,
Speaker 1: and while in the state's witness holding area of l
Speaker 1: A County Jail, he eventually meets three guys who are
Speaker 1: responsible for him being in this horrible predicament today. What
Speaker 1: happened was Kevin got arrested for a possession of cocaine charge,
Speaker 1: and because he was the main witness against Slim and
Speaker 1: Hondo on a murder case, they put him in with
Speaker 1: other prosecution witnesses and it's commonly called the snitch tank,
Speaker 1: which is a separate jail from the men's central jail.
Speaker 1: And while Kevin was in there, he told his cell
Speaker 1: mate Willie Battle and the guy that was and the
Speaker 1: next cell over, Jesse Williams. He told them what actually happened,
Speaker 1: as they asked, and that's very common in jail. What
Speaker 1: are he in for? And they exchanged information, but this
Speaker 1: time it only came from Kevin. He told him what happened,
Speaker 1: and they twisted around and ran with it. And then
Speaker 1: they called the Compton Police Department and asked them if
Speaker 1: they had a murder case where the body was found
Speaker 1: by a canal they called it the canal is really
Speaker 1: a drainage ditch. And they put him in contact with
Speaker 1: Detective Marvin Branscomb, who was not Sergeant Preston, who Kevin
Speaker 1: gave the statement to, and they convinced Branscomb that what
Speaker 1: they had to say was was true, which they said
Speaker 1: that Kevin confessed to these attempting murders and murder. They say,
Speaker 1: we got a guy on him bragging about chillings guy
Speaker 1: and sad with lady behind the ball. From being the
Speaker 1: hatchel witnessed now being killer. So Kevin became the defendant
Speaker 1: instead of the prosecution witness, and they moved him out
Speaker 1: of the snitch tank to another part of the jail.
Speaker 1: So Kevin's transferred over to the Central Jail, and then
Speaker 1: he met a very notorious snitch named Leslie White. And
Speaker 1: I get a call from Leslie White. I've never heard
Speaker 1: of Leslie White. Leslie White says, I understand you're defending
Speaker 1: Kevin Dyke's and that he has been ratted out by
Speaker 1: two snitches. And I said, that's exactly right. He says, well,
Speaker 1: I can help you. You come down here and I'm
Speaker 1: going to tell you all about the snitch system and
Speaker 1: how it works. Okay. So I go down to the jail.
Speaker 1: I talked to Leslie White. He tells me about how
Speaker 1: inmates get a hold of paperwork and change facts and
Speaker 1: get ahold of the detective or d A that's handling
Speaker 1: a particular murder case. And the hows they know these
Speaker 1: unique facts, they can convince the detective or district attorney
Speaker 1: that's handling the case that this confession was a valid confession.
Speaker 1: So I said, well that sounds good. Okay, I'll put
Speaker 1: you on the witness list, Mr. White. So about a
Speaker 1: week or two later, I get the witness list from
Speaker 1: the district attorney and Leslie White is on there as
Speaker 1: a people's witness. And not only that, I get a
Speaker 1: report that says that Kevin Dike's confessed to Leslie White.
Speaker 1: And I'm flabbergasted because I just talked to Leslie White
Speaker 1: and he was going to be a witness for Kevin.
Speaker 1: So I go down to the jail and I call
Speaker 1: out Leslie White and he's willing to come and talk
Speaker 1: to me. And I said, what do you are you
Speaker 1: a witness for the prosecution? Now he says yep. I said, well,
Speaker 1: you know that Kevin is innocent. Why are you doing what?
Speaker 1: How can you do that? And he says, well, man's
Speaker 1: got to do what he's got to do. That's what
Speaker 1: he said. I gotta be honest. My head is spinning.
Speaker 1: And I didn't even live through this. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is Kevin. I mean, I'm so sorry that you're living
Speaker 1: this is like, this is your life we're talking about.
Speaker 1: I didn't actually believe that what they was going on
Speaker 1: was even possible. I didn't think that this stuf would hold.
Speaker 1: I'm like, what hold of? I'm an actual eye witness.
Speaker 1: These guys they don't know learning about rally or nothing
Speaker 1: about what actually happened. So I didn't really believe the
Speaker 1: people could do what they were what they were doing
Speaker 1: to me. I had never even heard about that before.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is like nothing. I don't
Speaker 1: think we've ever heard a story like this before. So Steven,
Speaker 1: what happens next? When we got to court, all they
Speaker 1: had was his statement to Sergeant Preston and three snitches,
Speaker 1: and I couldn't believe that they would even want to
Speaker 1: proceed with this evidence. But they did. And just before
Speaker 1: the verdict was issued, I told Kevin and I said, now, Kevin,
Speaker 1: when you get out of here, you've got to change
Speaker 1: your ways, be a law abiding citizen. And then used
Speaker 1: to society, and he said, yeah, okay, Mr Houser, I'm
Speaker 1: going to do that, came back guilty. We were both floored.
Speaker 1: You were since the twenty four years to life here
Speaker 1: it is now two thousand and twenty. You're still in
Speaker 1: Can you just take us back there, put us in
Speaker 1: that courtroom with you if you can. I actually could
Speaker 1: not believe the verdict. Yeah, actually the crime I don't
Speaker 1: see I was possible. Yeah, I was after I would
Speaker 1: just I came for I gave everything they needed, all
Speaker 1: eviously car the weapons. The people from testified that I
Speaker 1: didn't attack him. People will say have like thirty three times,
Speaker 1: and he's testified I didn't attack him, and it test
Speaker 1: five that I need attack Ms Brandy. That was my
Speaker 1: free of mother. There was nobody there, anybody. And this
Speaker 1: is something I really need to highlight here, which is
Speaker 1: that if you go in a jury box and you're
Speaker 1: presented with a case where someone's life is hanging in
Speaker 1: the balance, just like Kevin's was, and there's no evidence
Speaker 1: connected that persons at a crime except for the testimony
Speaker 1: of a snitch, you cannot vote to convict because it's crazy.
Speaker 1: I mean, these are people who are clearly incentivized. They
Speaker 1: may not tell you that at the time, but you
Speaker 1: have to understand that the defense can never bribe a witness.
Speaker 1: That's a that's a crime punishable by long time in jail.
Speaker 1: But the government can make a deal with a snitch
Speaker 1: to reduce their charges or drop their charges in exchange
Speaker 1: for testimony, and that is the best bribe of all.
Speaker 1: So it's the most unreliable testimony imaginable. And here you
Speaker 1: have a case where the direct evidence contradicts what the
Speaker 1: Niches were saying. The evidence showed that Kevin could not
Speaker 1: have committed this crime, and yet he ends up getting
Speaker 1: convicted under the testimony of people who were notoriously untrustworthy,
Speaker 1: and where it sent device to lie hound evidence. Where
Speaker 1: the apartments they say, oh, he's been in my family,
Speaker 1: So the government gives them money to relocate them movement apartments.
Speaker 1: All of them end up getting reduced sings left. White
Speaker 1: end up getting out at six five me. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you remember this right back any threatened position attorney.
Speaker 1: If you don't let me back out, I'm gonna blow
Speaker 1: this whole case. You remember the other What happened was
Speaker 1: Leslie White then went on sixty minutes when he was
Speaker 1: back in again in the jail, and he showed on
Speaker 1: camera how he could work his magic and get favors
Speaker 1: from d A. And then when I saw that, I
Speaker 1: went down and talked to Leslie White. I said, well,
Speaker 1: now I know for sure you lied in Kevin's case,
Speaker 1: and he said, yeah, I did, And I said, well,
Speaker 1: I want you to sign an affidavit that you lied
Speaker 1: in Kevin's case because Kevin deserves a new trial. And
Speaker 1: so sure enough he signed it. But instead of giving
Speaker 1: Kevin a new trial, the d A indicted him. Leslie
Speaker 1: White with a grand jury had me come in and
Speaker 1: testify and they gave Leslie White four years for perjury.
Speaker 1: They gave Kevin Dike's nothing and that's where it sat.
Speaker 1: It's all so backwards, an upside down. And of course
Speaker 1: you know, we have two more characters that are coming
Speaker 1: up with Gesi Gordon, who's on the right side of
Speaker 1: this story, and Willie Battles. We can't leave him out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when this uh snitch system came out thanks to Leslie White,
Speaker 1: believe it or not, g Gordon was a pointed she's
Speaker 1: a defense lawyer, she's to see now, but she was
Speaker 1: a criminal defense lawyer front of mine. And Geesi Gordon
Speaker 1: was appointed by i think the Supreme Court to do
Speaker 1: an independent investigation on all of the snitch cases to
Speaker 1: see if justice was done. And she spent over a
Speaker 1: year on this project, being paid by the state of California.
Speaker 1: And as a result of Geese Gordon's research and investigation,
Speaker 1: a law was introduced in the legislature to require corroboration
Speaker 1: if snitch testimony is going to be used in a case.
Speaker 1: And that happened, but they didn't do it retroactively. Am
Speaker 1: I getting that right? Because it's it always drives me
Speaker 1: nuts when we change a law of this country, and
Speaker 1: we don't do it retroactively. How could it be different
Speaker 1: now than it was before. It doesn't make sense. Didn't
Speaker 1: make any sense to me. That's why I appealed it.
Speaker 1: We went to the Apellate Court in California, then the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court, and actually when we went to the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court the first time, the law had not been changed yet.
Speaker 1: But then we went back to the Supreme Court on
Speaker 1: another issue, and the law had been changed. And in
Speaker 1: federal court the judge actually said that Kevin might be innocent,
Speaker 1: but there's nothing I can do because this law is
Speaker 1: not retroactive or something to that effect. And I just
Speaker 1: thought that that was the most unjust result I've ever
Speaker 1: had in my whole career. Still is wow. And so
Speaker 1: if Kevin's case were tried now, uh, they wouldn't have
Speaker 1: any any evidence against him because the only incriminating evidence
Speaker 1: was from the snitch testimony. If Kevin's case would to
Speaker 1: be tried now, they would have no evidence against him.
Speaker 1: And yet it's thirty four years later and he's I
Speaker 1: can't be this is nuts. Um. I went to the
Speaker 1: district journey with that very argument. With each new district
Speaker 1: attorney that came in, I would go talk to him,
Speaker 1: and they told me that because of his statement admitting
Speaker 1: what he did pretending to go along with what sliman
Speaker 1: Honda were doing, because of that statement, that made him guilty.
Speaker 1: And they said, sorry, you have to present new evidence
Speaker 1: to us before we're going to recommend anything for Kevin.
Speaker 1: And I said, what's the matter with these confessions by
Speaker 1: these snitches, that's new evidence at least since the trial.
Speaker 1: Two out of three Leslie White signed an affidavit that
Speaker 1: sent him put himself in prison, and Jesse williams Uh
Speaker 1: signed a letter saying that he lied in Kevin's case.
Speaker 1: He said, no, we want some more than that. Plus,
Speaker 1: you've got one snitch that you don't have, you know,
Speaker 1: a retraction from Willy Battle. We never had a retraction
Speaker 1: from him. And Willie Battle I tried to find, but
Speaker 1: he's probably dead. So that's where we sit. And what
Speaker 1: is the outlook now, I mean, is their hope? I
Speaker 1: think Kevin has two hopes for role and with a
Speaker 1: new d A. I thought Jackie Lacey was very progressive
Speaker 1: and I had high hopes for Kevin when she put
Speaker 1: together her Internal Innocent Project, and I met with what
Speaker 1: I thought was a very ethical, fine lawyer, and I
Speaker 1: got a very unfavorable result. And I asked him during
Speaker 1: that hearing, I said, you know, as a human being,
Speaker 1: you know, do you really think that Kevin Dike was
Speaker 1: convicted properly fairly? He wouldn't answer. He wouldn't give me
Speaker 1: an answer. Nearly a year has gone by since we
Speaker 1: originally released this episode in September, and shortly thereafter in
Speaker 1: l A County, George Gascon was elected d A. And Steve,
Speaker 1: last time we spoke, you said that one of the
Speaker 1: only avenues left for a leaf for Kevin was that
Speaker 1: very election victory. So you must have been really excited
Speaker 1: when it became clear that Jackie Lacy was on her
Speaker 1: way out and George Gascon was on his way in.
Speaker 1: I'm imagining you must have jumped right into action. On
Speaker 1: the first business day of that is correct, on January four,
Speaker 1: I sent a letter to George Gascon the new DA,
Speaker 1: alerting him to Kevin's situation, and I was contacted shortly
Speaker 1: thereafter by a deputy in his conviction Integrity unit. She
Speaker 1: said that she had reviewed the case and she agreed
Speaker 1: with the former head of their Integrity Unit under Jackie
Speaker 1: Lacey that taking out all of the snitch testimony and
Speaker 1: just focusing in on Kevin's statement both to the police
Speaker 1: and what he testified to a trial, which were both consistent,
Speaker 1: that she felt that he was guilty because of what
Speaker 1: he said he shared in the criminal intent to kill
Speaker 1: his friend Otis, which I think was not reasonable. I
Speaker 1: don't understand how a deputy district attorney can look at
Speaker 1: the facts in this case, focusing on Kevin's own testimony
Speaker 1: and come to the conclusion that he intended Otis's death,
Speaker 1: that he wanted Otis to die, or that he wanted
Speaker 1: his friend From to die or Mrs Bradley to die. Now,
Speaker 1: I From testified in court that Kevin was not a
Speaker 1: part of the assault on his person or Mrs Bradley.
Speaker 1: For the district attorney to believe that Kevin convicted himself
Speaker 1: based on his testimony of both the murder and the
Speaker 1: attempted murders is beyond belief. For a second degree murder,
Speaker 1: there has to be criminal intent. You have to share
Speaker 1: in the intent of the stabbers in this case, Slim
Speaker 1: and Hondo to kill Otis, and there's no proof of
Speaker 1: that from Kevin's lips. The only evidence of that is
Speaker 1: from snitch testimony, which under today's law would be inadmissible. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and with good reason. I mean, let's face it, snitch
Speaker 1: testimony for the state is almost always incentivized by leniency
Speaker 1: in the snitches charges, making that testimony as unreliable as
Speaker 1: it could be. So this deputy in gascon CiU wants
Speaker 1: to preserve this conviction, saying that Kevin's test the mon
Speaker 1: who reaches the burden of proof for criminal intent, when
Speaker 1: in reality, Kevin was essentially a hostage of Slim and
Speaker 1: Hondo until he could finally get away. I mean, had
Speaker 1: he not gone along with everything that happened in the
Speaker 1: aftermath of Otis's death, Slim and Hondo would have been
Speaker 1: dumping both Kevin and Otis's bodies and we wouldn't even
Speaker 1: be having this conversation or know what Slim and Hondo did.
Speaker 1: So what was the end result of your discussion with
Speaker 1: Gascon's deputy. Were you able to work anything out After
Speaker 1: several back and forth conversations, she was going to bring
Speaker 1: a motion for resentencing. This was apparently a new law
Speaker 1: where they could go back into the trial court and
Speaker 1: petitioned for a change of sentence. She said that if
Speaker 1: Kevin would agree to change his plea from murder to manslaughter,
Speaker 1: that they would go along with it, and that he
Speaker 1: could then be sentenced to whatever the maximum on manslaughter was,
Speaker 1: which is a lot less than thirty five years that
Speaker 1: he's spent in. So we're still waiting for that. I
Speaker 1: don't know what's happened, but the district attorney that I
Speaker 1: was talking to called me and told me that there
Speaker 1: was some problem with them making this motion because some
Speaker 1: judge might deny it or she wasn't real clear on that,
Speaker 1: but that she invited me to think of a way
Speaker 1: to get around the judge having to make a decision
Speaker 1: to get Kevin out. So I suggested, well, how about
Speaker 1: if I file another writ of habeas corpus, and if
Speaker 1: the district attorney doesn't oppose it, then the judge can
Speaker 1: grant him a new trial, and once he gets a
Speaker 1: new trial, then they can dismiss the case because they
Speaker 1: don't have any evidence. They don't have any admissible evidence,
Speaker 1: right The only evidence they had back then was the
Speaker 1: snitch testimony, which was totally uncorroborated and therefore now inadmissible
Speaker 1: under the law that resulted from Leslie White sixty minutes
Speaker 1: and the step sequent investigation. Not to mention that Jesse
Speaker 1: Williams recanted. Leslie White took a perjury charge and four
Speaker 1: years to undo his damage to Kevin and Willie Battles
Speaker 1: is presumed dead or he might have done the same.
Speaker 1: So are they gonna move forward with your habeous idea
Speaker 1: or are they looking for something better to hang their
Speaker 1: hat on, considering that your idea would prove that this
Speaker 1: conviction has absolutely no integrity. I'm not sure what's going
Speaker 1: to happen. It seems like that they're just waiting for
Speaker 1: the parole hearing. Right. Kevin is up for parole at
Speaker 1: the beginning of and if the d S Office does
Speaker 1: not oppose parole, he will probably get released on parole. However,
Speaker 1: he will be on parole for the rest of his
Speaker 1: life for a crime that he did not commit, as
Speaker 1: well as having served thirty five years for a crime
Speaker 1: that he did not commit. I think that George Gascon
Speaker 1: himself has not heard the evidence in this case. Once
Speaker 1: he realizes exactly what went on in this case, I'm
Speaker 1: sure that he will see that justice is done and
Speaker 1: Kevin will get released. That's our hope as well. And
Speaker 1: anyone in our audience who feels the same way, and
Speaker 1: I hope all of you do, can scroll down to
Speaker 1: the link in the bio. There's a petition to George
Speaker 1: Castcon to do just that. He's a good man and
Speaker 1: he's a very reasonable person. I mean, really, I honestly
Speaker 1: like to clone George. He's that kind of guy. We
Speaker 1: hope that he and others in his office can come
Speaker 1: around to our view. Kevin would admit to anyone that
Speaker 1: he wasn't living a really honorable life at that point,
Speaker 1: but in fact, ironically it was at this moment in
Speaker 1: his life that he did something truly honorable. He went
Speaker 1: to Otis's mother and then to the police to do
Speaker 1: the right thing. Does that sound like the actions of
Speaker 1: someone possessing criminal intent? Wow? I know I needed the
Speaker 1: right teams when I went to the police and then
Speaker 1: I told the food Sin, I told the food for injury.
Speaker 1: Even now, I don't regret during the right team because
Speaker 1: it was my friends of life and it was important
Speaker 1: for his mother to know the food would happened to
Speaker 1: a son. Maybe I wouldn't say that while I'm in jail.
Speaker 1: It cost me a lot. I've lost like seventeen family members.
Speaker 1: My mom's has spoke a few years ago and it
Speaker 1: tost me a lot, but I was still doing it
Speaker 1: even after all this time. I found ruined the last
Speaker 1: five years, so that peace to find it with God
Speaker 1: and myself. So now it's like, you know what, there's
Speaker 1: nothing I can do about what they've done. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna let them take what's left that I got my
Speaker 1: spirit and now my family is proud of me, even
Speaker 1: though I've never done nothing because I've shaved in my life.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna keep pushing. I'm gonna keep you leaving.
Speaker 1: I got to That's all I got. And with that,
Speaker 1: we will now go to closing arguments as they still
Speaker 1: ring true today with justice delayed in this case, I
Speaker 1: first of all, thank you both. Turned my microphone off.
Speaker 1: I'll leave my headphones on, close my eyes and let
Speaker 1: you both talk about whatever you want for the last
Speaker 1: few minutes of the show. Kevin, we're gonna save you
Speaker 1: for the last if that's okay. And Stephen, please just
Speaker 1: share whatever it is that's on your mind. Well, Kevin,
Speaker 1: let's hope this is another step to get you out
Speaker 1: of prison. It's been a long long road, but I
Speaker 1: won't give up ever, and Kevin over to you. I'm thankful,
Speaker 1: you know. And it's just taking me a long time.
Speaker 1: But the last five years now and my life now
Speaker 1: still have purpose and meanings like what they've done. I oh,
Speaker 1: no deal feelings force nobody, he is what he is,
Speaker 1: the deals they need or off lost my life. I
Speaker 1: was twenty four years all I'm sitting down. I've been
Speaker 1: seen over five years. So it's like this is not
Speaker 1: for that that I can't do can I don't control it,
Speaker 1: but I won't let what they've done to me back
Speaker 1: then do something to me. Now I'm free, you know,
Speaker 1: ins I am. I'm at peace and and and even
Speaker 1: if I die in here, I'll be at peace. Lord,
Speaker 1: I'm still for the shop and the worm. I need
Speaker 1: the right then as an adult, so my parents were
Speaker 1: proud of this's note I should do. But keep my
Speaker 1: mind focusing, Oh what's possible, what could be possible, and
Speaker 1: how to help Buzzing and for hearing opportunity, this guy
Speaker 1: family and my community where I heard them. You know,
Speaker 1: I won't let nothing take that from me. That's all
Speaker 1: I have And I appreciate everything that you guys were doing,
Speaker 1: and I appreciate support for me, whether you're the government,
Speaker 1: whoever it can be done to help me. It is
Speaker 1: the affluence from in front of people, and they let
Speaker 1: them decided kids. So I need to replenished for what
Speaker 1: I needed if they say so, because I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: But hey, I was worried from my life to see
Speaker 1: it from my life at the time, but I did
Speaker 1: what I believe he was the right thing, and I
Speaker 1: don't relate to Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction
Speaker 1: with Jason Flam. Please support your local innocence projects and
Speaker 1: go to the link in our bio to see how
Speaker 1: you can help. I'd like to thank our production team
Speaker 1: Connor Hall, Jeff Clyburne and Kevin Warns. The music on
Speaker 1: the show, as always, is by three time OSCAR nominated
Speaker 1: composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram
Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction and Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Rightful
Speaker 1: Conviction with Jason Flam is a production of Lava for
Speaker 1: Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one h