1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Since our initial release of Kevin Dykes's story, there have 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: been some new developments, and this is a re release 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: of that story with new content. As a child in 4 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: the late nineteen seventies, Kevin Dykes accidentally killed his best 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: friend when they were playing with a gun, sending him 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: to Juvie for involuntary manslaughter. When he got out, he 7 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: turned to petty drug dealing in Compton, California. Fast forward 8 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: to nineteen eighty six. After a terrible assault that led 9 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: to a four month hospital stint, Kevin continued peddling drugs 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: from his temporary wheelchair for two men named Slim and Hondo. 11 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: Kevin rented a bed and a trailer home in his 12 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: landlord's driveway, where Slim and Hondo occasionally hit weapons. That June, 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: two incidents occurred just days apart, resulting in one murder 14 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: and two attempted murders. The first during a party when 15 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: Kevin booted his friend Ephraim for being belligerently drunk. Slim 16 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: and Hondo followed he from stabbing him several times. A 17 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: neighborhood mother, Missus Bradley, came to Ephraim's aid, only to 18 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: get dabbed as well. Kevin intervened, jumping from his wheelchair 19 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: to stop the assault before it turned fatal. A few 20 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: days later, Slim and Hondo accused Kevin's friend Otis Perry 21 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: of stealing their gun from Kevin's trailer home, stabbing him 22 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: eighty one times. Unable to stop the murderous frenzy and 23 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: fearing for his own life, Kevin helped them clean up 24 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: before going to the police a few hours later. A 25 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: few days after that, Kevin was arrested for cocaine possession 26 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: and put into a special holding tank for state's witnesses. 27 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: Then three jailhouse snitches claimed that Kevin had confessed to 28 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: all three attacks in exchange for leniency in their own cases. 29 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 1: Kevin Dykes is serving life in prison on the word 30 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: of three notorious jailhouse snitches. This is wrongful conviction with Jason. 31 00:01:48,600 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 2: Flamm, this is Global taill Link. 32 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 3: You have a prepaid call from here an inmate at 33 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 3: the California State Prison, Los Angeles County, Lancaster, California. This 34 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 3: call and our telephone number will be monitored and recorded. 35 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 3: To accept this call, say or dial five now. Thank 36 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 3: you for using globaltaill link. 37 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrawful Conviction with Jason Flomp Today. We 38 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,119 Speaker 1: have an incredible story, so we're going to get right 39 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: into it, and I'm going to introduce you first to 40 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: Stephen K. Howser. He's a criminal defense attorney representing the 41 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: star of this episode, Kevin Dike. Stephen, Welcome to Wrongful Conviction. 42 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 4: Thank you, glad to be here. 43 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: And Kevin Dykes is on the phone with us from prison, 44 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: and I hope we'll be able to do something about 45 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 1: his situation because it is awful. Kevin. I'm sorry you're 46 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: here or where you are, but I'm happy you're here 47 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: with us today. So thank you for being here. 48 00:02:58,080 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 5: Thank you for the AVATORA. 49 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: This case goes back to Compton nineteen eighty six, and 50 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: it's got so much that you'll think I'm talking about 51 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: a movie script that would be too much to be believed, 52 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: except for it's real. It's got gangster's name Hondo and Slim. 53 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: It's got drugs, it's got snitches that ended up on 54 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: sixty minutes. It's got laws that changed and victims who 55 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: testified that this was not the guy who did it. 56 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: It's got a guy who's in prison for three and 57 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: a half decades with no evidence against him except the 58 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: testimony of jailhouse snitches who have recanted their testimony. It 59 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: is nuts, but it's true. So let's get right into it. 60 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: And Kevin, let's start with you going back to your 61 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: youth because you grew up in Compton, right, Yes, I grew. 62 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 5: Up got to pay at home in the pop Water Sport. 63 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 5: I actually had a real good of bringing in two. 64 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 5: I think it's actually saying I ended up actually killing 65 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 5: my best friend. I went for as randfather, and I will. 66 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 4: Sit to yas and for those of you who don't 67 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 4: know YA or CYA is the California Youth Authority. 68 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: As I understand it, your friend's death was entirely accidental, 69 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: just two kids who made a big mistake playing with 70 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: a gun. But they still sent your way to juvie 71 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: for involuntary manslaughter. And I also understand that you harbor 72 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: a lot of guilt about this, even though the family 73 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: forgave you. 74 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 5: Yes, this family, they stayed directly across the street from 75 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 5: my family. Even to the day, still feel on the 76 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 5: same street. Although the family had forgiven me, written me 77 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 5: letters will come to see me. When I got out, 78 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 5: I saw what I did to that family, and I 79 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 5: didn't know how to proster. Although my mother and my 80 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 5: father and my grandmother and all kinds of people were 81 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 5: trying to help me, I didn't know how to ask 82 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 5: for their help that I actually need. So I got 83 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 5: dig grig as little grid of the k. 84 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: So the guilt kind of derailed your potential, it seems. 85 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: And after Juvie, you start dealing drugs and looking outside 86 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: of what seemed like a supportive home for whatever it 87 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: was that you felt you needed, acceptance, identity, whatever, out 88 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: in the street. So fast forward to January nineteen eighty six. 89 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: Some other really bad stuff happens. 90 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 5: January eighteenth, so I to cheating them. They try to 91 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 5: cheat them in the front of my house. I follow them. 92 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 5: They ran me through a brick wall and both my 93 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 5: hit smashed my films. So I went at the hospital 94 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 5: January eighteenth, in dollarge of May twenties. When I got 95 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 5: out of the hospital, I was in a wheelchair and 96 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 5: I had a walker, and I was going to a therapy. 97 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: Yes, someone tried to kidnap Kevin, so you fought them off, 98 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: and they ended up hitting you with their car against 99 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: a brick wall, broke your hips. Snapped your pelvis and 100 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: put you in the hospital for four months. I mean, 101 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: you're lucky to even be alive. And we haven't even 102 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 1: gotten to the part that has you locked up right now. Okay, 103 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: so it's May nineteen eighty six. You're temporarily in this 104 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: wheelchair doing physical therapy and dealing drugs for these two 105 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: mid level management drug dealers named Slim and Hondo. 106 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 4: Slim and Hondo decided that they were going to take 107 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 4: over the local drug sales. I believe they helped Kevin 108 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 4: and some of his friends with small amounts of cocaine 109 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 4: to sell in the neighborhood, and they would periodically show 110 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 4: up and I guess resupply the local sellers, including Kevin 111 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 4: and Kevin. 112 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: You were renting a place to stay from a man 113 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: named mister Bryce. You were renting a bed in this 114 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: mobile home that sat in his driveway, right. 115 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 5: Yes, I was a fan and mister bright'shole. We had 116 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 5: a mobile hole over. They had like six days with 117 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 5: a shower and all that stuff inside. It was parked 118 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 5: in the driveway. Sometimes my friends, he's supposed to stay. 119 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 5: They had like six places well sleeping here, so all 120 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 5: this coming sleeping. 121 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 4: Here and Otis is Otis Perry who occasionally stayed at 122 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 4: mister Bryce's mobile home, and he's the one that was 123 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 4: eventually stabbed by slimon Hondo for taking the gun that 124 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 4: they had left in the trailer. The night that these 125 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 4: two attempted murders occurred outside a party at mister Bryce's house. 126 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 5: Yes, also, my cousin Pam was inside the mobile home. 127 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 5: I was inside the house where the party was there 128 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 5: when they're fighting when to fight after, So I didn't 129 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 5: know this was out there at the time. Donald Slip 130 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 5: pulls up. They knew mister Bryce didn't allow gus in 131 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 5: his house, but they he had a gun in the 132 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 5: mobile home. Well, my cousin in OSTs, but I still 133 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 5: didn't know nothing about that at that time. 134 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: Okay, so now the stage is finally set for these 135 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: crimes to take place. This is we're talking June nineteenth, 136 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. There's a little party going on at 137 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: mister Bryce's. Your friend Otis and your cousin Pam are 138 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: in the mobile home in the driveway. Slim and Hondo, 139 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,239 Speaker 1: your bosses, come to hang out, but out of respect 140 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: for mister Bryce, they leave their gun in the mobile home. 141 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: Then your friend Ephraim is at the party and he 142 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: is drunk, to say the least. 143 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 5: Wellm is my older homeboy. He was young, beinglligerate and 144 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 5: uh messing with the females. I was up in there, 145 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 5: grabbing streaks that didn't belong to him, and I said, 146 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 5: the man, go down to the pool man, keep back. 147 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 5: I got and he kept home. So I got pissed 148 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 5: off and I hate him once and when I hate him, 149 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 5: Hondo slim. Both of them attacked him because of them, 150 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 5: here's what they see it, he said. I didn't understand 151 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 5: why did they get involved in there? Here's what they 152 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 5: see because I should barely walk. They people were taking 153 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 5: advantage of my disability. 154 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: Oh okay, so your drug bosses are sticking up for you. 155 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: But then they go way beyond what you would ever 156 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: want them to do. 157 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 6: Yeah. 158 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 5: So once I stuck both of them attacking, I got 159 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 5: them to stop, told East leave. He left, and then 160 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 5: they chased him down the street. They caught him at 161 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 5: the end of the corner. Once I got down there, 162 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 5: I saw that they were actually stabbing. When I Hando 163 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 5: leaving along Hando, he little stup and saw me. But 164 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 5: when he saw me, he saw Miss Bradley behind me. 165 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 5: Miss Bradley is my older almost mother. When she looked 166 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 5: up and saw that it was her son, she tried 167 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 5: to turn it run. He ran her down, grabbed her 168 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 5: by her address, and started stabbing her. I hopped my 169 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 5: way to him and grabbed him to get him off 170 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 5: of her, and once I was holdingly, she got loose, 171 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 5: which gave you some time to get up, and then 172 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 5: I got to convinced him to get into the car 173 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 5: and drove them off. I drove off to a motel, 174 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 5: and then I came back to check on Eathelm and 175 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 5: Miss Bradley. But the hammer has already came when it 176 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 5: was the hospital. 177 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: So you basically saved Missus Bradley and Ephraim from being 178 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,959 Speaker 1: murdered by Slim and Hondo by convincing them to stop 179 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,599 Speaker 1: stabbing them and drive away from the scene. But this 180 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 1: incident on June nineteenth is what becomes two charges of 181 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 1: attempted murder that gets stuck on you. The guy confined 182 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: to a wheelchair at the time. Yeah, okay, So Slim 183 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: and Hondo stabbed both Ephraim and Missus Bradley. You drove 184 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: them to a motel at some point your friend Otis 185 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,719 Speaker 1: back at the mobile home, takes the gun Slim and 186 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: Hondo had left behind. Not too smart, by the way, 187 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: because Slim and Hondo knew who was in the mobile 188 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: home when they stashed it in the first place. So 189 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: they come looking for Otis on June twenty third. 190 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,719 Speaker 5: June twenty thirty overs looking for Otis, like Wilson in 191 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 5: the morning, they should come outside. I'm going to go 192 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 5: to your oldest. I didn't know ODIs was out here 193 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 5: in the motor hole. So when I went out to 194 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 5: the front yard going to the motor opened, older stepped out. 195 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 5: Hanolds cacked ODIs, say may with my gun? He said, 196 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:13,599 Speaker 5: we can go get it. He said, too late, and 197 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 5: then cashing. They started fighting. ODIs was fighting back, but 198 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 5: they were fighting him from the side of the mother hole. 199 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 5: He went around the garage and that was the first 200 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 5: time I saw him being stabbed. And I came back 201 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 5: from around there. I wasn't naming the run or whatever, 202 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 5: so didn't say nothing and just listening to everything that 203 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 5: was going on. And I don't know how the much 204 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 5: time passed, but then Honolds came from around there and 205 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 5: there was no more noise. I was wondering them. Okay, 206 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 5: now what he said, uh w what something? You got something? 207 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 5: Rec me? And then I gave him my blanket, so 208 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 5: him a swim, went behind the bath and wrapped him up, 209 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 5: drugged him out and put him in the car. And 210 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 5: then instead of human slim boy, he said, you Slim, 211 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 5: you stay here watching out all the blood that was 212 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 5: coming from behind the mother hole, and showed me to 213 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 5: get in the car and ride with him. So I 214 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 5: took him over through my Olmos neighborhood by the canil, 215 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 5: and that's where he jumped in and I say, look, 216 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 5: I'll be back. I left it the other same day. 217 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: And what would you tell anyone listening now who's wondering 218 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: why you played any part in getting rid of the 219 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: body with Slim and Hondo. 220 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 5: I did with any reasonable person not trying to die, 221 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 5: I would have done hadn't seen what I saw. I 222 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 5: knew I gotta do something that made myself a part 223 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 5: of what's going on, and I wasn't physically able to 224 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 5: do nothing to prevent myself from being killed and impressed it. 225 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 5: That was the smartest thing that I could have done 226 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 5: at the time for myself instead of doing nothing. 227 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: If you had done nothing at all. What do you 228 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: think Slim and Hondo would have done? 229 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 5: I was a little bit too afraid to find out. 230 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 5: I was in a position where something happened to my 231 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 5: friend and hand me. You know where I stood, and 232 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 5: I did what I'm day to do for morsel. They're 233 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 5: not too forward. 234 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 7: Now. 235 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by Paul Weiss Rifkin, Porton and Garrison, 236 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: a leading international law firm. Paul Weiss has long had 237 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: an unwavering commitment to providing impactful, pro bono legal assistance 238 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: to the most vulnerable members of our society and in 239 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,599 Speaker 1: support of the public interest, including extensive work in the 240 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:47,599 Speaker 1: criminal justice area. Otis's murder eventually gets pinned on you, 241 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: the guy who was only able to watch or listen 242 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: helplessly as your friend got stabbed to death, and then, 243 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: in order to save your own life, you did would 244 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 1: probably some of us would have done. You played along 245 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: with Slim and Hondo until you could get away. I 246 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: would not want to have been in your shoes at 247 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,719 Speaker 1: that point. You just lost your brand. Otis. You had 248 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,719 Speaker 1: to contend with the question of to snitch or not 249 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: to snitch on like a Sophie's choice. On these two 250 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: murderous drug dealers. 251 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 5: And that's when I was trying to process whatever it 252 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 5: just happened to show. Six thirty seven o'clock in the morning, 253 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 5: that's when I saw the police. I told that I 254 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 5: knew where that was. One always said come over here, 255 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 5: and look they moved it blanket. I knew it was. 256 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 5: I said, I know where he lives, to the little 257 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 5: mother's house. And then when we came back to the scene, 258 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 5: I asked my saying, look if I had any information, 259 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 5: talk on my contract, and he gave me his car. 260 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 5: I took your car, rode miles two whiles and I 261 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 5: went to the phone booth and then I called the police. 262 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 5: She lived, and I told everything the thing he knew 263 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 5: and told him while I was at they came and 264 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 5: picked me up, took me out to the station. They 265 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 5: let me go back home. 266 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: So you made a statement to a sergeant, Sergeant Preston, 267 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: and you're going to be a witness, and Steve, maybe 268 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: you can tell us about the next part of the story, 269 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: which is how Kevin was picked up for cocaine possession. 270 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: Sometime later, and while in the state's witness holding area 271 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: of La County Jail, he eventually meets three guys who 272 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: are responsible for him being in this horrible predicament today. 273 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 4: What happened was Kevin got arrested for a possession of 274 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 4: cocaine charge and because he was the main witness against 275 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 4: Slim and Hondo on a murder case, they put him 276 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 4: in with other prosecution witnesses and it's commonly called the 277 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 4: snitch Tank, which is a separate jail from the men's 278 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 4: central jail. And while Kevin was in there, he told 279 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 4: his cellmate to Willie Battle and the guy that was 280 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 4: and the next sel over, Jesse Williams. He told them 281 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 4: what actually happened because they asked, and that's very common 282 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 4: in jail, what are he in for? And they exchanged information, 283 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 4: but this time it only came from Kevin. He told 284 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 4: them what happened, and they twisted it around and ran 285 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 4: with it. And then they called the Compton Police Department 286 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 4: and asked them if they had a murder case where 287 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 4: the body was found by a canal. They called it 288 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 4: a canal, it's really a drainage ditch. And they put 289 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 4: him in contact with Detective Marvin Branscombe, who was not 290 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 4: Sergeant Preston, who Kevin gave the statement to and they 291 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 4: convinced Branscomb that what they had to say was true, 292 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 4: which they said that Kevin confessed to these tempting murders 293 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 4: and murder. 294 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 5: They say, we got a guy out of here bragging 295 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 5: about chilling his guy and sad with lady telling big time, 296 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 5: don't kill it. So I end up going from being 297 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 5: the actual witness now mean that actual killer. 298 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 4: So Kevin became a defendant instead of the prosecution witness. 299 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 4: And they moved him out of the snitch tank to 300 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 4: another part of the jail. So Kevin's transferred over to 301 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 4: the central jail, and then he met a very notorious 302 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 4: snitch named Leslie White. And I get a call from 303 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 4: Leslie White. I'd never heard of Leslie White. Leslie White says, 304 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 4: I understand you're defending Kevin Dykes and that he has 305 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 4: been ratted out by two snitches. And I said that's 306 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 4: exactly right. He says, well, I can help you. You 307 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,239 Speaker 4: come down here and I'm going to tell you all 308 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 4: about the snitch system and how it works. Okay, So 309 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 4: I go down to the jail. I talked to Leslie White. 310 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 4: He tells me about how inmates get a hold of 311 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 4: paperwork and change facts and get a hold of the 312 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 4: detective or DA that's handling a particular murder case. And 313 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 4: because they know these unique facts, they can convince the 314 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 4: detective or district attorney that's handling the case that this 315 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 4: confession was a valid confession. So I said, well, that 316 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 4: sounds good, Okay, I'll put you on the witness list, 317 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 4: mister White. So about a week or two later, I 318 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 4: get the witness list from the district attorney and Leslie 319 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 4: White is on there as a people's witness. And not 320 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 4: only that, I get a report that says that Kevin 321 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 4: Dyke's confessed to Leslie White. And I'm flabbergasted because I 322 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 4: just talked to Leslie White and he was going to 323 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 4: be a witness for Kevin. So I go down to 324 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 4: the jail and I call out Leslie White and he's 325 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 4: willing to come and talk to me, and I said, 326 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 4: what do you are? You a witness for the prosecution? 327 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 4: Now he says yep. I said, well, you know that 328 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 4: Kevin's innocent. Why are you doing what? 329 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 5: How can you do that? 330 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 4: And he says, well, man's got to do what he 331 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 4: got to do. That's what he said. 332 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: I gotta be honest. My head is spinning. And I 333 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: didn't even live through this. I mean, this is Kevin. 334 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm so sorry that you're living this is that, 335 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: this is your life we're talking about. 336 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 5: I didn't actually believe that what was going on was 337 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 5: even possible. I didn't think that this sub would hold. 338 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 5: I'm like, what old, I am an actual eye witness. 339 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 5: These guys they don't know nothing about where illy, but 340 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 5: nothing about what actually happened. So I didn't really believe 341 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 5: the people could do what they were what they were 342 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 5: doing to me. I had never even heard about that before. 343 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is like nothing. I don't 344 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: think we've ever heard a story like this before. So Steven, 345 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: what happens next? 346 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 4: When we got to court, all they had was his 347 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 4: statement to Sergeant Preston and three snitches, and I couldn't 348 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 4: believe that they would even want to proceed with this evidence, 349 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 4: but they did, And just before the verdict was issued, 350 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 4: I told Kevin, I said, now, Kevin, when you get 351 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 4: out of here, you've got to change your ways, be 352 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 4: a law abiding citizen and then used to society and 353 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 4: he said, yeah, came mister Houser, I'm going to do that, 354 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 4: came back guilty. We were both floored. 355 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: You were sentenced to twenty four years to life. Here 356 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: it is now twenty twenty. You're still in Could you 357 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: just take us back there, put us in that courtroom 358 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 1: with you, if you can. 359 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 5: I actually could not believe the verdant. Yeah. I actually 360 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 5: didn't a crying. I just see how it was possible. Yeah, 361 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 5: I was after I witness, I came for I gave 362 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 5: everything they needed, all evidence to call the weapons. The 363 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 5: people from testify that I didn't attacking. People will stand 364 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 5: like thirty three times and he test fighted I didn't attacking, 365 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 5: and it test five that I didn't attack Ms Brandy, 366 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 5: that was my friend mother. There was nobody here to 367 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 5: stay out, okay, anybody. 368 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: But and this is something I really need to highlight here, 369 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: which is that if you go in a jury box 370 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: and you're presented with a case where someone's life is 371 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: hanging into balance, just like Kevin's was, and there's no 372 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 1: evidence connecting that person's at a crime except for the 373 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: testimony of a snitch, you cannot vote to convict because 374 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: it's crazy. I mean, these are people who are clearly incentivized. 375 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 1: They may not tell you that at the time. But 376 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: you have to understand that the defense can never bribe 377 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: a witness. That's it. That's a crime punishable by long 378 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: time in jail. But the government can make a deal 379 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 1: with a snitch to reduce their charges or drop their 380 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: charges in exchange for testimony. And that is the best 381 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: bribe of all. So it's the most unreliable testimony imaginable. 382 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 1: And here you have a case where the direct evidence 383 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: contradicts what the Niches were saying. The evidence showed that 384 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: Kevin could not have committed this crime, and yet he 385 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: ends up getting convicted on the testimony of people who 386 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: were notoriously untrustworthy and were it sent device to lie 387 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: mister Alvan. 388 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 5: Frown evidence where they get apartments, they say, oh, he's 389 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 5: bet in my family, So the government gives him money 390 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 5: to relocate them movement apartments. All of them ended up 391 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 5: getting reduced to Leslie White ended up getting out at 392 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 5: such five and gives me, I don't know if you 393 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 5: remember this one thousands He came right back any threatened 394 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 5: the Asian attorney. If you don't bake me back out, 395 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 5: I'm gonna blow his whole case up. 396 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 4: You remember what happened was Leslie White then went on 397 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 4: sixty minutes when he was back in again in the jail, 398 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 4: and he showed on camera how he could work his 399 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 4: magic and get favors from DA. And then when I 400 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 4: saw that, I went down and talked to Leslie White. 401 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 4: I said, well, now I know for sure you lied 402 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 4: in Kevin's case, and he says, yeah, I did. And 403 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 4: I said, well, I want you to sign an affidavit 404 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 4: that you lied in Kevin's case because Kevin deserves a 405 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 4: new trial. And so sure enough he signed it. But 406 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 4: instead of giving Kevin a new trial, the DA indicted him. 407 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 4: Leslie White with a grand jury, had me come in 408 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 4: and testify, and they gave Leslie White four years for perjury. 409 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 4: They gave Kevin Dykes nothing. And that's where it sat. 410 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 4: It's all so backwards and upside down. 411 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: And of course, you know, we have two more characters 412 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: that are coming up, with Gigi Gordon, who's on the 413 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: right side of this story, and Willie Battles. We can't 414 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: leave him out. 415 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, when this snitch system came out, thanks to Leslie White, 416 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 4: believe it or not, Gigi Gordon was appointed. She's a 417 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 4: defense lawyer see now, but she was a criminal defense 418 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 4: lawyer friend of mine, and Jesi Gordon was appointed by 419 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 4: i think the Supreme Court to do an independent investigation 420 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 4: on all of the snitch cases to see if justice 421 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 4: was done. And she spent over a year on this project, 422 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 4: being paid by the state of California. And as a 423 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 4: result of Jiji Gordon's research and investigation, a law was 424 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 4: introduced in the legislature to require corroboration if snitch testimony 425 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 4: is going to be used in a case. 426 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 1: And that happened, but they didn't do it retroactively. Am 427 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: I getting that right? Because it always drives me nuts 428 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: when we change a law in this country and we 429 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: don't do it retroactively. 430 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 4: How could it be different now than it was before. 431 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 4: It doesn't make sense. Didn't make any sense to me. 432 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 4: That's why I appealed it. We went to the Pellate 433 00:24:55,480 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 4: Court in California, then the Supreme Court. Actually, when we 434 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 4: went to the Supreme Court the first time, the law 435 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 4: had not been changed yet. But then we went back 436 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 4: to the Supreme Court on another issue and the law 437 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 4: had been changed. And in federal court the judge actually 438 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 4: said that Kevin might be innocent, but there's nothing I 439 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 4: can do because this law is not retroactive or something 440 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 4: to that effect. And I just thought that that was 441 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 4: the most unjust result I've ever had in my whole career. 442 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: Still is wow. 443 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 4: And so if Kevin's case were tried now, they wouldn't 444 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 4: have any evidence against him because the only incriminating evidence 445 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 4: was from the snitch testimony. 446 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: If Kevin's case were to be tried now, they would 447 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: have no evidence against him. And yet it's thirty four 448 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: years later and he's I can't this is nuts. 449 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 4: I went to the district attorney with that very argument. 450 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 4: With each new district attorney that came in, I would 451 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,919 Speaker 4: go talk to him, and they told me that because 452 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 4: of his statement admitting what he did pretending to go 453 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 4: along with what Islam and Honda were doing, because of 454 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 4: that statement, that made him guilty. And they said, sorry, 455 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 4: you have to present new evidence to us before we're 456 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 4: going to recommend anything for Kevin. And I said, what's 457 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 4: the matter with these confessions by these snitches, that's new 458 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 4: evidence at least since the trial. Two out of three 459 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 4: Leslie White signed an affidavit that sent him put himself 460 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 4: in prison, and Jesse Williams signed a letter saying that 461 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 4: he lied in Kevin's case. He said, no, we want 462 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 4: some more than that. Plus you've got one snitch that 463 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 4: you don't have, you know, retraction from Willy Battle. We 464 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 4: never had a retraction from him, and Willy Battle I 465 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 4: tried to find but he's probably dead. So that's where 466 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 4: we sit. 467 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: And what is the outlook now, I mean, is there 468 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: a hope? 469 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 4: I think Kevin has two hopes, parole and with a 470 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 4: new DA. I thought Jackie Lacy was very progressive and 471 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 4: I had high hopes for Kevin when she put together 472 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 4: her Internal Innocent project and I met with what I 473 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 4: thought was a very ethical, fine lawyer, and I got 474 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 4: a very unfavorable result. And I asked him during that hearing, 475 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 4: I said, you know, as a human being, you know, 476 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 4: do you really think that Kevin Dykes was convicted properly fairly? 477 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 4: He wouldn't answer. He wouldn't give me an answer. 478 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: Nearly a year has gone by since we originally released 479 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: this episode in September twenty twenty, and shortly thereafter in 480 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: La County, George Gascon was elected DA. And Steve, last 481 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 1: time we spoke, you said that one of the only 482 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,360 Speaker 1: avenues left for a leaf for Kevin was that very 483 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: election victory. So you must have been really excited when 484 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 1: it became clear that Jackie Lacy was on her way 485 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: out and George Gascon was on his way in. I'm 486 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: imagining you must have jumped right into action on the 487 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: first business day of twenty twenty one, that. 488 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 4: Is correct, on January fourth, twenty twenty one, I sent 489 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 4: a letter to George Gascon the New DA alerting him 490 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 4: to Kevin's situation, and I was contacted shortly thereafter by 491 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 4: a deputy in his conviction integrity unit. She said that 492 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 4: she had reviewed the case and she agreed with the 493 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 4: former head of their integrity unit under Jackie Lacy that 494 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 4: taking out all of the snitch testimony and just focusing 495 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 4: in on Kevin's statement both to the police and what 496 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 4: he testified to a trial, which were both consistent, that 497 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 4: she felt that he was guilty because of what he 498 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 4: said he shared in the criminal intent to kill his 499 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 4: friend Otis, which I think was not reasonable. I don't 500 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 4: understand how a deputy district attorney can look at the 501 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 4: facts in this case, focusing on Kevin's own testimony and 502 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 4: come to the conclusion that he intended Otis's death, that 503 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 4: he wanted Otis to die, or that he wanted his 504 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:52,479 Speaker 4: friend Ephram to die or Missus Bradley to die. Now, 505 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 4: Ephram testified in court that Kevin was not a part 506 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 4: of the assault on his person or Missus Bradley. For 507 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 4: the district attorney to believe that Kevin convicted himself based 508 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 4: on his testimony of both the murder and the attempted 509 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 4: murders is beyond belief. For a second degree murder, there 510 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 4: has to be criminal intent. You have to share in 511 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 4: the intent of the stabbers in this case, Slim and 512 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 4: Hondo to kill Otis, and there's no proof of that 513 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 4: from Kevin's lips. The only evidence of that is from 514 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 4: snitch testimony, which under today's law would be inadmissible. 515 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and with good reason. I mean, let's face it, 516 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,479 Speaker 1: snitch testimony for the state is almost always incentivized by 517 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: leniency in the snitch's charges, making that testimony as unreliable 518 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: as it could be. So this deputy in Gascoon CiU 519 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,040 Speaker 1: wants to preserve this conviction, saying that Kevin's test some 520 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: money reaches the burden of proof for criminal intent, when 521 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: in reality, Kevin was essentially a hostage of Slim and 522 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: Hondo until he could finally get away. I mean, had 523 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: he not gone along with everything that happened in the 524 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: aftermath of Otis's death, Slim and Hondo would have been 525 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: dumping both Kevin and Otis's bodies and we wouldn't even 526 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: be having this conversation or know what Slim and Hondo did. 527 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: So what was the end result of your discussion with 528 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: Gascon's deputy. Were you able to work anything out? 529 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 4: After several back and forth conversations, she was going to 530 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 4: bring a motion for resentencing. This was apparently a new 531 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 4: law where they could go back into the trial court 532 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 4: and petitioned for a change of sentence. She said that 533 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 4: if Kevin would agree to change his plea from murder 534 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 4: to manslaughter, that they would go along with it, and 535 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 4: that he could then be sentenced to whatever the maximum 536 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 4: on manslaughter was, which is a lot less than thirty 537 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 4: five years that he's been in. So we're still waiting 538 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 4: for that. I don't know what's happened, but the district 539 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 4: attorney that I was talking to called me and told 540 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 4: me that there was some problem with them making this 541 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 4: motion because some judge might deny it. Or she wasn't 542 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 4: real clear on that, but that she invited me to 543 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 4: think of a way to get around the judge having 544 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 4: to make a decision to get Kevin out. So I suggested, well, 545 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 4: how about if I file another rid of habeas corpus 546 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 4: and if the district attorney doesn't oppose it, then the 547 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 4: judge can grant him a new trial. And once he 548 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 4: gets a new trial, then they can dismiss the case 549 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 4: because they don't have any evidence. They don't have any 550 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 4: admissible evidence, right The. 551 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: Only evidence they had back then was the snitch testimony, 552 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: which was totally uncorroborated and therefore now inadmissible under the 553 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: law that resulted from Leslie white sixty minutes and the 554 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: sequent investigation, not to mention that Jesse Williams recanted, Leslie 555 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: White took a perjury charge and four years to undo 556 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: his damage to Kevin, and Willie Battles is presumed dead 557 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: or he might have done the same. So are they 558 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: gonna move forward with your habeas idea or are they 559 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: looking for something better to hang their hat on? Considering 560 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: that your idea would prove that this conviction has absolutely 561 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: no integrity. 562 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 4: I'm not sure what's going to happen. It seems like 563 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 4: that they're just waiting for the parole hearing. 564 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: Right, Kevin is up for parole at the beginning of 565 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. 566 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 4: And if the DA's office does not oppose parole, he 567 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 4: will probably get released on parole. However, he will be 568 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 4: on parole for the rest of his life for a 569 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 4: crime that he did not commit, as well as having 570 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 4: served thirty five years for a crime that he did 571 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 4: not commit. I think that George Gascon himself has not 572 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 4: heard the evidence in this case. Once he realizes exactly 573 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 4: what went on in this case, I'm sure that he 574 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 4: will see that justice is done and Kevin will get released. 575 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: That's our hope as well. And anyone in our audience 576 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: who feels the same way, and I hope all of 577 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: you do, can scroll down to the link in the bio. 578 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 1: There's a petition to George Cascon to do just that. 579 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: He's a good man and he's a very reasonable person. 580 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: I mean, really, I honestly like to clone George. He's 581 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,760 Speaker 1: that kind of guy. We hope that he and others 582 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,760 Speaker 1: in his office can come around to our view. Kevin 583 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: would admit to anyone that he wasn't living with really 584 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: honorable life at that point. But in fact, ironically, it 585 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: was at this moment in his life that he did 586 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: something truly honorable. He went to Otis's mother and then 587 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: to the police to do the right thing. Does that 588 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: sound like the actions of someone possessing criminal intent? 589 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 5: I know I need the right things. When I went 590 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 5: to the police, handing them to hide throw the food in, 591 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 5: I tow the food fir and jury. Even now, I 592 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,800 Speaker 5: don't regret during the right thing because it was my 593 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 5: friend's life and it was important for his mother to 594 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 5: know the truth what happened to her son. Maybe I 595 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 5: wouldn't say that while I'm in jail. It cost me 596 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 5: a lot. I've lost like seventeen family members. My mom's 597 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 5: had a stroke a few years ago. Now, it cost 598 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 5: me a lot, but I was still doing it even 599 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 5: after all this time. I found Lord the last five years, 600 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 5: so I'm at peace finally with God and myself. So 601 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 5: now it's like, you know what, there's nothing I can 602 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 5: do about what they've done. I'm not gonna let them 603 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 5: take what's left that I got in my spirit. And 604 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 5: now my family is proud of me. Even though I've 605 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 5: never done nothing because I've saved my life. So I'm 606 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 5: gonna keep pushing. I'm gonna keep the leaving like I 607 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 5: got to so all I got. 608 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,720 Speaker 1: And with that we will now go to closing arguments 609 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: as they still ring true today with justice delayed in 610 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: this case. I first of all, thank you both. Turn 611 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: my microphone off, leave my headphones on, close my eyes, 612 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: and let you both talk about whatever you want for 613 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: the last few minutes of the show. Kevin, We're gonna 614 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: save you for last if that's okay. And Stephen, please 615 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 1: just share whatever it is that's on your mind. 616 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 4: Well, Kevin, let's hope this is another step to get 617 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 4: you out of prison. It's been a long, long road, 618 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 4: but I won't give up ever. 619 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: And Kevin, over to you. 620 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 5: I'm thankful, you know, and it's just taking me a 621 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 5: long time. But I'm like the last five years now 622 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,439 Speaker 5: and my life now, few have purpose and meaning fight 623 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 5: what they've done. I owe no feel feelings, force, nobody. 624 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 5: He is what he is all I've lost, My lost 625 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 5: my life. I was twenty four years old, I'm six now. 626 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 5: I've been seen over five years. So it's like there's 627 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 5: nothing else that I can't do because I don't consult it, 628 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 5: but I won't let what they've done to me back 629 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 5: then the something to me. 630 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 7: Now. 631 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 5: I'm free, you know, inside, and I'm at teaching, and 632 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 5: even if I die in here, I'll be at peace 633 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,839 Speaker 5: knowing I stood for the soup into woman. I need 634 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 5: the right thing as an adult. So my parents were problem. 635 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 5: There's nothing I can do but keep my mind focusing, Oh, 636 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 5: what's possible, what could be possible, and how to help out. 637 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 7: It's a human opportunity to this god family in my 638 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 7: community where I see them. You know, I won't let 639 00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,040 Speaker 7: nothing take that from me. That's how I have and 640 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 7: I appreciate everything that you guys are doing, and I 641 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,839 Speaker 7: appreciate support from anybody, whether the governor wherever. 642 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,800 Speaker 6: It can be done to help me. It is just 643 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 6: a hoof the absolutely in front of people, and they 644 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 6: let them decided. So I need to be punished for what. 645 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 5: I needed if they say so, because I opportunate, but hey, 646 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 5: I was worried for my life. Say it for my 647 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 5: life at the time, but I did what I believe 648 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 5: he was writing, and I don't really doing it. 649 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. 650 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence projects and go to the 651 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 1: link in our bio to see how you can help. 652 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff 653 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: Clyburn and Kevin Warnis. The music on the show, as always, 654 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be 655 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and 656 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason 657 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: Flahm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and 658 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:08,879 Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one