WEBVTT - Reparations: The Big Payback Is Back! 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:09.120 I'm Erica Alexander and I'm Whitney. Now welcome to reparations 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.000 The Big Payback, a production of Color Farm Media, I 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:15.680 Heart Radio, and The Black Effect Podcast Network. So here 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:19.040 we are. Yeah, here we are, back in the saddle, 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:21.760 back in the saddle. I'm glad we came back here 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:25.439 to celebrate our big premiere of The Big Payback documentary. 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:29.040 I mean, we've come full circle. Absolutely, it's really exciting 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:31.600 to be back here talking about this. I mean, when 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.720 I met you what three and a half almost four 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.440 years ago, the idea that we'd be now here four 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:41.080 years later talking about the premiere of the documentary, that 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:43.080 we would have done a podcast. You're not doing a 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:45.520 follow up episode to the podcast. I wouldn't believed it. 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:48.360 But uh, it certainly has been quite a year. It's 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:51.200 been a big year, and so congratulations to us, dude, 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:53.400 and to everyone who worked on It's been a real 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:56.520 push to get here. I have a hernia to prove it. Actually, 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:59.440 I'm not kidding about that. I do. But anyway, I'm 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:01.880 excited to talk about our film. But before we do, 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:04.440 let's talk about what you've been doing since we've been 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:06.040 gone all this time. What have you been up to. 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:08.200 As I said, it's been a pretty intense year, you know, 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:10.880 I look about you know, here we are in January. 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:13.160 Last January, we were pushing to finish the end of 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:16.880 the film, wrapping it up, scoring it and mixing it, 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:19.840 coloring it, getting it ready for Tribeca, launching it Tribeca. 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:22.640 That big show that we did at the Apollo Theater 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:25.760 in New York, which was so big. That was sexy, 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:28.560 wasn't it great? That was one of my my favorite events. 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:31.840 Free event on June tenth, the big payback at the 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:35.160 Apollo Theater. That was a lot of fun. It's pretty awesome, 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:37.560 very awesome. And to the people who came out on 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.000 Father's Day, by the way to do that, that was great. 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:43.040 They came out for me, No, they came out for 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:45.839 Robin Bruce Simmons. But that's another story. It's all good though, 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:48.360 and yees. So then as you know, I'm working on 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.840 another film. Was not a director on White Sharks. I 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:53.600 know that that's sometimes well, you you know, you think 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:55.760 a lot of the white sharks, both quoth, the finned 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.160 kind and the two legged kind, but this is about 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:00.840 the finn kind that we're doing for uh, for a 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:05.080 major streamer, and um, you know the projects working on 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.640 a Korea so doing that, kids going back to school, 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.720 kids coming out of school, coming back home, which is 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:18.000 always like Europe, Papa Papa three times over. And now 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:22.760 what's so exciting. We're getting ready for the broadcast and 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.760 streaming launch of our film, The Big Payback on PBS 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:30.120 is Independent Lens. That's right, really excited about that. I've 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:32.359 been busy too, you know. I mean, well, you're always 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.120 I've been to. I've been busy to you know, you're 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:37.760 always busy. When iome my messages Erica, they're all like 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:42.080 Erica Alexander's assistant, and it's like, who's like doing your sean, 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.720 who's doing your schedule? Well, listen, I appreciate hard work 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:47.600 and to do this. I think it's important that people 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:49.520 understand that we're doing all of these things while we 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.520 live life and we have Really let's get a run 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:54.400 down what you've been doing over the last year. If 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:56.520 I was making they'd be proud of me because I've 0:02:56.560 --> 0:03:00.120 had several jobs. I've had several jobs. Check this. I've 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.480 done four television series, five movies, including co directing The 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:07.079 Big Payback with you another audio series. We did really 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.880 well with that among a ton of other things to survive. 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:11.800 I even got a chance to watch a few movies, 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:13.799 you know, actually go out and do that. I'm a 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.160 little tired just thinking about it. The Renaissance wom but 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:18.800 I am. And by the way, since then, the world 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.560 has moved Congress. They've even had another attempt at an 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:23.920 insurrection kind of you know. McCarthy is, um, can you 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:32.200 believe that? That's freaky? Our latest export to Brazil. McCarthy is, yes, 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.960 how the storm a capital. This is nuts. It just 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:37.119 shows you how connected the United States is the world, 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:40.880 how influential it is. It really matters what happens here. Absolutely, 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:43.200 Just I just want to go back to one thing. 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:45.760 I just wanted to get your thoughts on what it 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:48.040 was like, after three night years to see that film 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:49.960 in the theater for the first time. It was a 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:54.320 beautiful moment. My mother came in for it, and our friends, 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:58.240 and it's also was my directorial debut with you, and 0:03:58.280 --> 0:03:59.640 so I have to thank you because you taught me 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:04.720 a lot about directing films and specifically documentaries and how 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.800 to manage the process. You know, I have a lot 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:10.320 to learn in those areas, But I was as proud 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:14.160 that after everything that happened in and just everything we 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.279 had to do, including different podcasts, we were there and 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:19.279 we were in that moment, and I thought I looked 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:21.320 really sexy too, but I was I didn't think in 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:22.919 the moment that I really took it in like I 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:25.680 should have. But afterwards there was a lot of you know, 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.919 deep thoughts and a lot of grateful, gratitude thoughts. I 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.279 loved that. What about you, how did you feel? My 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:33.080 favorite moment, You know, you do this thing for a 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:35.880 lot of different reasons. My favorite moment, uh we launched 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:37.520 the film was I think I don't know if you 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.960 remember the second screening it TRACKBACKA a woman got up 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:43.520 using tears. She said, I feel like I just watched 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:47.160 the super Bowl and black people won boom, And that 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:49.360 was like the nicest compliment and he's ever given me 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.360 about a movie I've made, so I was really exciting. Wow, 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:57.120 that's a great moment. I mean, you know, it's beautiful 0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:58.960 to have those moments, but we have to really deal 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.640 with the fact that if we can't even stop the 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.880 swarm in Congress of people breaking windows and doing those 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:06.760 type of things and we thought there would be a 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.880 lot of goodwill after the public lynching of George Floyd. 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.640 It doesn't seem to have had a lasting effect. And 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.120 I'm not being cynical when I say a murder seems 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:18.640 to get you like two years of progress, And that's 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.680 not funny. How that's like funny queer? Like, what gives? 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:25.480 Why the violent swings? What do white people want? What? 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:27.479 What will it take for white folks to stop being 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.200 day trippers to a struggle of blacks in America? And 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.679 how can we get this going? You know, it's funny 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:35.800 because I think I have sort of two feelings about Erica, 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:40.520 one in that are both exalted and disappointed. And exalted 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.880 in the sense that I had people in my life, 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.040 white people in my life talking to me about race 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:48.560 um in a way they never had during two thousand 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:50.520 and twenty in ways I never thought they would in 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:53.160 two thousand and twenty, and so it was so exciting 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.200 to finally see a big group of white Americans for 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:59.440 the first time actually glrappling with their relationship to race. 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:02.520 That disappointment, of course, comes from what you said. You know, 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.200 it's fades, It does fade, But that's always what it 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:09.320 is right two steps forward and nine ten steps back, 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:12.160 but you still have to like say, okay, well I 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:16.000 think we did get that point one ten percent forward. Yeah, 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.680 we keep offering excuses, and I think another excuse can't 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.160 cut it. After four years of no action on reparations, 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:24.640 I mean, we have nurses going on strike. That means 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:27.520 people aren't getting what they need on a basic level 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:30.159 inside of America, which should be able to at least 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:34.159 guarantee healthcare. I mean, reparations is a piece of it, 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:39.320 but we have so many things going on. Eric Alexander optimist. 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:49.240 As I said, you know earlier, I do really feel 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:53.360 the fact that when we started this project, HR forty 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:57.640 had been in committee for thirty years. Now it's thirty 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.240 two years never getting a vote. Our film covers them 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.760 finally having a debate, agreeing to debate HR for the 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:08.160 Reparations Bill in the Judiciary Committee, and voting an out 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:10.800 of committee after markup to take it to the floor. 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:13.360 So whenever you look around and feel depressed, there is 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:15.760 progress being made. Is it enough? No? But I do 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:17.640 feel like that, you know, we've moved the ball a 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:21.400 little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, that's I guess. Something. Well, 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.200 while we were doing other things in these talks, I 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.160 was invited to address the double a CP about storytelling 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:30.240 of all things. Well, you are a storyteller, I am. 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:32.520 And I caught up to them in Baltimore, Maryland, and 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:34.720 they were having their staff retreat there, so I got 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:38.040 a chance to talk to their executives questions about reparations. 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:42.280 When the big Juna, Derek Johnson steps out live and 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.200 in living color, so I took that chance to get 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.240 his take on whether this was really the right moment 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.320 for reparations in America and what do you say? A 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:52.680 whole lot to say. He was in a hurry, by 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:55.120 the way, so you know he was multitasking. He kind 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:57.160 of stopped and chopped it up with me, but yeah, 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.680 he was. He was on even gave a quick shout 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:03.200 out to the pioneers in this movement. Well, Derrick Johnson, 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.440 President and CEO of the n a CP. Preparation is 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:08.880 an important question that we must address in this country 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:13.040 for African Americans. Anytime you've had state sanctioned, this nation's 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:16.960 sanctions harm against our community, whether it's segregation, slavery, redlining, 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.600 or elimination out of the financial systems, we must make 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.280 whole all of the families and the descendates who have 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:27.239 been impacted. But reparation is also a global question because 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:31.320 global companies have also exploited the continent of Africa, exploited 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:35.120 African people, and displaced us in ways in which we 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.440 have been paralyzed in terms of our future aspirations. So 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.280 we are now positioned to do something about it. The 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:44.800 double a CP, when Conman Conyers began to stir up 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:48.560 this question around reparations through HR forty, but then a 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.480 CP supported the Republican New Africa was a part of 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:53.679 the group in Detroit at that time who begin to 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:55.800 push for this question. Ron Daniels has been on the 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.840 front line of this Amari Baraka Shoque LAMMBA. So it's 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:01.640 very important for us to not only recognized, to fight 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:04.280 this in front of us. To understand how we got 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:07.520 to this place. Well, you know, it's funny, and I 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:09.839 think that in order to understand the present, you always 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:11.960 need to understand the past. And I think that the 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:15.080 context of the story. So many people don't really understand 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.160 the context of the story, and that's something that we 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:19.120 really tried to do with the film, is to show 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:22.520 that this moment that where HR four he gets passed 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:25.400 out of committee, where Robin Ruth Simmons finally passes a 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.559 tax funded respirations bill, and Evans Illinois. It's a point 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:31.520 on a continuum, it's not a point in time. And 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:34.000 I think it's really important to understand that, understand what 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:36.560 it means. Yeah, for sure. I mean there have been 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:38.959 a lot of folks who have tried to pull this 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.360 bad boy up the mountaintop. But it's like taking a 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:44.200 trip with the Grinch, who still Christmas after he stole 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.120 all the toys and he's sitting on the mountain peak 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:49.840 watching the sunrise. Remember, poor Max's dog is exhausted from hauling. 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:54.160 There's lay up the hill. Okay, but you get the point. 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:59.439 So who's the dog in this in this scenario, and 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.320 who's the green sitting on the sled with all the presents? 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:04.400 I don't know the answer. I don't want to know 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.920 the answer. That you know the answer. They look like you. 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.000 They've got all the gifts and they're watching everybody suffering 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:14.440 who town. But you know, black people continue to move 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.120 on and get things done. That's a beautiful thing. But 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:19.360 that's a Christmas. Tell the grinch and all that I mean. 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:23.040 Derrick Johnson also had a few things to say about 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:29.240 the state owning the responsibility towards reparations. You think about 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:32.080 Dr King's book, While We Came Wait in this chapter 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:34.240 to Todays to Come, he didn't call it reparations, but 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.680 what he was advocating for for the state, the nation 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.600 to make whole African America's or what he called the 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:42.800 g I b of for poor people, a g I 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:44.920 BO that was similar to what they gave to world 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.719 with two veterans, but due to individuals who have been 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:50.840 displaced in ways out of the workforce because of mechanizations, 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:54.320 individuals who were discriminated against bocause of race, poor white 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.040 folks who have been explored as well. Even Dr King, 0:10:57.160 --> 0:10:59.800 if you read that chapter, talks about the need for 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.080 this nation, through public policy, to address the harms the 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:07.080 injuries of African Americans and other individuals. I am absolutely 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.360 in supportive reparations. We have to do it decisively, we 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:12.280 have to do it smartly, and we need to be 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:15.360 clear and not create internal fights around the question. And 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:19.160 know that anytime you have state sponsored harm, there should 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:23.280 be state sponsors repair. That's called reparations. Yeah, I mean, 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.480 I agree that the state owns it. But the idea 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.480 that there's um not gonna be fight and argument and 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.040 discussion around such a complex project, I think is just 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:33.480 not realistic. I mean that was one of the things 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.720 that really really really was my education in making this 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:39.959 film is that, you know, in some ways it's easier 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.320 on the white side because if you believe you you 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:45.480 can just advocate for reparations, right, so I think the stense, 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:48.640 but on the black side actually being what it is, 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:52.520 who gets it in what form and what amount? These 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:55.800 are really serious, complex questions, and so the idea that 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.440 it's there's not going to be, you know, a debate 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:02.000 around the question or fight srongestion is just there's almost 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:04.480 be an American right to like actually not to to 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.800 not fight about something. Yeah. But you know, speaking of which, 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:09.920 you know, we never really talked about who was in 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.720 this film. You just mentioned it. The Alder woman, Robert 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:16.679 Ruth Simmons had these type of conversations and internal debates, 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:18.680 didn't she. Yeah, And I think that's what you know, 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.520 when when you watch the film, you'll see it's not 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.080 just all white people are against reparations. There's a lot 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:26.440 of white people for reparations. Not all black people are 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.640 for represations. There's a lot of black people against reparations. 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.240 There's also black people who think who don't agree on 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:36.680 Pan African reparations versus Ato's reparations. It's a really complicated equation. 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:38.840 And one of the things I really admire about Robin 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.280 and what I hope people can see in the film 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:45.120 is that in some ways, she made a complicated problem 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:47.800 simple two ways. The first thing she did is she 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.960 got people who agreed that reparations were needed, and people 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.840 would say, without deciding agreeing what that was, she agreed 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.080 that the money had to be earmarked for. And the 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:58.840 second thing is she created a process that led to 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.559 an under standing of what the reparations in her community 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.400 were needed. And it became sort of this logical road 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:11.720 to reparations for housing discrimination. Right. And then they dealt 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.880 with everything that happened with that. They had a great 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.520 historian to help them figure out what's going on. It's 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:19.560 going to be that way each time you go into 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:22.839 a different city. They got to figure out what can 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:27.079 be done locally and what people are really interested in addressing. Right, Yeah, 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:29.680 that's hopefully Again, the lesson of the film is that 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:32.440 every community is going to be different. Way to approach 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:34.439 is that how reparations are don Evanston is gonna be 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:36.960 different than it has come outed under Detroit, San Diego, 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:41.320 Jackson to the Mississippi. There's not a direct line between 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:45.240 slavery and every community. There's a line, but sometimes it's 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.480 a squiggly line. It's connected different things. And especially when 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.920 you start talking about the legacy of slavery and the 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:56.480 embedded structure that kept black people from participating fully in 0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:00.160 both civic life and building wealth through American capital is 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.920 m It's in some form in every community, and hopefully 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.160 that people can see that this is a model for 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:08.400 how to get to what that is and then a 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:10.920 model for how to come up with a solution how 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.200 to address it. Speaking of models, we should talk about 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:17.720 Sheila Jackson Lee. Sheila Jackson Lee, Wow, you know uh 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:21.120 all this was going on, has officially called for an 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:25.600 executive order something that Biden would sign to bring HR 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:29.040 forty about and we could get on with the study. 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:32.280 Tell us what HR forty is again. HR forty is 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:37.400 a bill to study slavery and its legacy. How it's 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:42.120 impacted Black Americans and make appropriate remedies, recommend appropriate remedies 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.840 for dealing with those injuries and how to repair them. 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.200 But it's just a study bill. It's not a bill 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.360 that earmarks money. It's not a bill that says who 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.640 gets it, It's not a build says how much. And 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:56.600 this is what's always been so confusing about the resistance. 0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:00.880 HR forty. It's just a bill to talk compotent, and 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:05.840 they're still huge resistant, right. And so I asked Derrick Johnson, 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:10.000 president of the c P, whether he supported an executive 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.960 order for HR forty. Well, we would like to see 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:14.840 the language of the executive order, but I think all 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.880 efforts are important to move in this direction. I'm also 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.560 watching when it's taken place in San Francisco, where's taking 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:22.680 place in the state of California, when they put other 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.640 that commission. Dr Amos Brown are San Francisco Branch president 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.200 is a part of leading that effort. So we're seeing 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:31.520 these type of efforts not only ever seen in Illinois, 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.800 but across the country because we recognize that that the 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:38.760 government has created impediments in various or African Americans that 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:42.000 truly live out what we call an American dream, and 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.840 we need to ensure that communities, families are made whole 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:50.520 because of those impediments. See, that's great. He loves an 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.400 executive order too, but he's interested in the language of it. 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.080 I think that's a big deal. Everybody's now saying the 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:59.760 down for Biden to bring about an executive order for 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.200 our forty, and I think that that's really the only 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:04.080 way that this is gonna done in the next couple years, 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:06.880 especially now with the Republican House, is that even though 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.120 Representative Jackson Lee had the votes, she had the votes 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:12.920 to pass out of the House, the leadership, as much 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.560 as I love Nancy Pelosi, did not bring it to 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:17.320 the floor. And I think they did not put the 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:18.840 floor because they were afraid of the mid terms. And 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:21.040 so now with the House and the hands of Republicans, 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.760 the only way that HR forty is going to happen 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.240 now is to an executive order. That's right, and that's 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.360 why my next question to Derek Johnson was very important. 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:32.840 Did he think that reparations would happen in our lifetime? 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.960 Freedom is a constant struggle, So it's not about what 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:37.720 we see, is about what we do to make sure 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.680 we are part of this continuum to ensure that our 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.560 future is a future of freedom in a way in 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:47.000 which our answers is only dreamed for. Wow, you know 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:49.320 what that makes me think about Erica is that it 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:51.800 also it's not only what our ancestors would dream of. 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.760 I also feel like it's what you're in my contemporaries 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:59.200 would dream of to actually live in a world where 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.320 reparations is taking place, and then you and I and 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.960 I think all black and white Americans could have a 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.679 different relationship with the other and actually built towards something 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.480 much more cohesive. So it's not just ancestors. I think 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.119 it's also for us as well, of course, and that's 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:18.840 what we're talking about. It's that freedom must be a reality. 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:23.920 But in our building of what reparations could provide for 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:27.280 the world, it's all a dream right now, and that 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.040 we're dream and hope and all these things keep coming 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:32.080 up when we talk about reparations, which I think is 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.080 kind of beautiful because it says that we're striving for something, 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.840 But it's also mixed with the hard facts of what 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.719 I think my people deserve. So that's why we have 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.520 so many I think wide swings, you know, people who 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:49.439 are for it and people who are against it. But 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:51.960 right in the middle there is freedom and dream and 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:54.680 all the beautiful things we say we can be in America. 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:57.200 But you know what we're always going to come up against. 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:01.080 The obstacle in the obstacle now is that we need 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:04.240 help from white people. Didn't you ask him about them, 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:06.040 you know, Whitney. I did ask him that. I wondered, 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:08.399 how can we build a coalition with white folks? And 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.679 he had a good answer for it, be focused on 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.560 public policy and not be distracted by tribalism and mothering. 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:18.080 Mothering is a distraction around the questions of public policy. 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:20.720 And if we are focused on public policy, we are 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:24.000 up to uphold that social contract we call the Constitution. 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:28.120 Is not a one community responsibility, is a joint responsibility 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:30.480 of all citizens of this country. And therefore we must 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:38.159 be a coalitions coalitions. Everyone always says that word coalitions. 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:41.760 What is the coalition? What's a white coalition? In fact, 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.720 what's the coalition? Damn? A coalition? Why I think about 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:48.320 it is it's a group that shares goals but don't 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:52.520 necessarily share motivations. And so you have to learn how 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:56.760 well done with me? How to find people that you 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.719 share goals with and the idea of your motivations are 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:01.920 kind of irrelevant. And I think there's so much time 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:04.600 people focus on who we are and where we're coming from. 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:07.560 I can work with you towards something that we both 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:12.520 agree as important without necessarily completely understanding you or your experience. 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:14.439 And I think that's what's really critical in this is 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:18.320 that white Americans and Black Americans who mean well and 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:23.200 want reparations are moving towards it for two very different reasons. Okay, 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:26.600 I think that's interesting because Robert Luce Simmons, who's an 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:30.399 alder woman, and Eviston had to make a coalition among 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:34.320 the council people. Was it um five white council people 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:37.399 to three black? But they got it through. And that 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.080 was the amazing thing. That's coalition building, isn't it? And 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:41.879 that isactly what I said, is that the people of 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:44.560 the fifth Ward and the people the third ward have 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.840 very different motivations for wanting to get it done, but 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.520 they did come together and get it done. That's cool. 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.080 That's what we need more of that. Now you're getting 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:58.440 all like warm and fuzzy on me, so you're start singing. 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.800 Imagine soon. No, really well hopeful. I guess that's optimistic. 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:06.199 You know, the thing that they get the biggest pushback for. 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:09.760 And there are people in this film that thought that 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:13.159 they weren't responsible for what happened in the past, and 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:16.000 why should they be held responsible for it? So what's 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.520 the answer to that when white people say that? And 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:21.399 I got a chance to ask Derek Johnson this question, 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.320 because I think that's what people struggle with, is how 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:27.160 do you answer that in a modern day that people 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:30.920 who live here, whether they came after slavery or live 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:34.720 now because they were born after slavery, have any responsibility 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:38.400 for the past, wrong or right? And uh, I think 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:41.000 he had a really good answer on it. We keep 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:43.240