Speaker 1: I'm Erica Alexander and I'm Whitney. Now welcome to reparations
Speaker 1: The Big Payback, a production of Color Farm Media, I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, and The Black Effect Podcast Network. So here
Speaker 1: we are. Yeah, here we are, back in the saddle,
Speaker 1: back in the saddle. I'm glad we came back here
Speaker 1: to celebrate our big premiere of The Big Payback documentary.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've come full circle. Absolutely, it's really exciting
Speaker 1: to be back here talking about this. I mean, when
Speaker 1: I met you what three and a half almost four
Speaker 1: years ago, the idea that we'd be now here four
Speaker 1: years later talking about the premiere of the documentary, that
Speaker 1: we would have done a podcast. You're not doing a
Speaker 1: follow up episode to the podcast. I wouldn't believed it.
Speaker 1: But uh, it certainly has been quite a year. It's
Speaker 1: been a big year, and so congratulations to us, dude,
Speaker 1: and to everyone who worked on It's been a real
Speaker 1: push to get here. I have a hernia to prove it. Actually,
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding about that. I do. But anyway, I'm
Speaker 1: excited to talk about our film. But before we do,
Speaker 1: let's talk about what you've been doing since we've been
Speaker 1: gone all this time. What have you been up to.
Speaker 1: As I said, it's been a pretty intense year, you know,
Speaker 1: I look about you know, here we are in January.
Speaker 1: Last January, we were pushing to finish the end of
Speaker 1: the film, wrapping it up, scoring it and mixing it,
Speaker 1: coloring it, getting it ready for Tribeca, launching it Tribeca.
Speaker 1: That big show that we did at the Apollo Theater
Speaker 1: in New York, which was so big. That was sexy,
Speaker 1: wasn't it great? That was one of my my favorite events.
Speaker 1: Free event on June tenth, the big payback at the
Speaker 1: Apollo Theater. That was a lot of fun. It's pretty awesome,
Speaker 1: very awesome. And to the people who came out on
Speaker 1: Father's Day, by the way to do that, that was great.
Speaker 1: They came out for me, No, they came out for
Speaker 1: Robin Bruce Simmons. But that's another story. It's all good though,
Speaker 1: and yees. So then as you know, I'm working on
Speaker 1: another film. Was not a director on White Sharks. I
Speaker 1: know that that's sometimes well, you you know, you think
Speaker 1: a lot of the white sharks, both quoth, the finned
Speaker 1: kind and the two legged kind, but this is about
Speaker 1: the finn kind that we're doing for uh, for a
Speaker 1: major streamer, and um, you know the projects working on
Speaker 1: a Korea so doing that, kids going back to school,
Speaker 1: kids coming out of school, coming back home, which is
Speaker 1: always like Europe, Papa Papa three times over. And now
Speaker 1: what's so exciting. We're getting ready for the broadcast and
Speaker 1: streaming launch of our film, The Big Payback on PBS
Speaker 1: is Independent Lens. That's right, really excited about that. I've
Speaker 1: been busy too, you know. I mean, well, you're always
Speaker 1: I've been to. I've been busy to you know, you're
Speaker 1: always busy. When iome my messages Erica, they're all like
Speaker 1: Erica Alexander's assistant, and it's like, who's like doing your sean,
Speaker 1: who's doing your schedule? Well, listen, I appreciate hard work
Speaker 1: and to do this. I think it's important that people
Speaker 1: understand that we're doing all of these things while we
Speaker 1: live life and we have Really let's get a run
Speaker 1: down what you've been doing over the last year. If
Speaker 1: I was making they'd be proud of me because I've
Speaker 1: had several jobs. I've had several jobs. Check this. I've
Speaker 1: done four television series, five movies, including co directing The
Speaker 1: Big Payback with you another audio series. We did really
Speaker 1: well with that among a ton of other things to survive.
Speaker 1: I even got a chance to watch a few movies,
Speaker 1: you know, actually go out and do that. I'm a
Speaker 1: little tired just thinking about it. The Renaissance wom but
Speaker 1: I am. And by the way, since then, the world
Speaker 1: has moved Congress. They've even had another attempt at an
Speaker 1: insurrection kind of you know. McCarthy is, um, can you
Speaker 1: believe that? That's freaky? Our latest export to Brazil. McCarthy is, yes,
Speaker 1: how the storm a capital. This is nuts. It just
Speaker 1: shows you how connected the United States is the world,
Speaker 1: how influential it is. It really matters what happens here. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: Just I just want to go back to one thing.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to get your thoughts on what it
Speaker 1: was like, after three night years to see that film
Speaker 1: in the theater for the first time. It was a
Speaker 1: beautiful moment. My mother came in for it, and our friends,
Speaker 1: and it's also was my directorial debut with you, and
Speaker 1: so I have to thank you because you taught me
Speaker 1: a lot about directing films and specifically documentaries and how
Speaker 1: to manage the process. You know, I have a lot
Speaker 1: to learn in those areas, But I was as proud
Speaker 1: that after everything that happened in and just everything we
Speaker 1: had to do, including different podcasts, we were there and
Speaker 1: we were in that moment, and I thought I looked
Speaker 1: really sexy too, but I was I didn't think in
Speaker 1: the moment that I really took it in like I
Speaker 1: should have. But afterwards there was a lot of you know,
Speaker 1: deep thoughts and a lot of grateful, gratitude thoughts. I
Speaker 1: loved that. What about you, how did you feel? My
Speaker 1: favorite moment, You know, you do this thing for a
Speaker 1: lot of different reasons. My favorite moment, uh we launched
Speaker 1: the film was I think I don't know if you
Speaker 1: remember the second screening it TRACKBACKA a woman got up
Speaker 1: using tears. She said, I feel like I just watched
Speaker 1: the super Bowl and black people won boom, And that
Speaker 1: was like the nicest compliment and he's ever given me
Speaker 1: about a movie I've made, so I was really exciting. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's a great moment. I mean, you know, it's beautiful
Speaker 1: to have those moments, but we have to really deal
Speaker 1: with the fact that if we can't even stop the
Speaker 1: swarm in Congress of people breaking windows and doing those
Speaker 1: type of things and we thought there would be a
Speaker 1: lot of goodwill after the public lynching of George Floyd.
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem to have had a lasting effect. And
Speaker 1: I'm not being cynical when I say a murder seems
Speaker 1: to get you like two years of progress, And that's
Speaker 1: not funny. How that's like funny queer? Like, what gives?
Speaker 1: Why the violent swings? What do white people want? What?
Speaker 1: What will it take for white folks to stop being
Speaker 1: day trippers to a struggle of blacks in America? And
Speaker 1: how can we get this going? You know, it's funny
Speaker 1: because I think I have sort of two feelings about Erica,
Speaker 1: one in that are both exalted and disappointed. And exalted
Speaker 1: in the sense that I had people in my life,
Speaker 1: white people in my life talking to me about race
Speaker 1: um in a way they never had during two thousand
Speaker 1: and twenty in ways I never thought they would in
Speaker 1: two thousand and twenty, and so it was so exciting
Speaker 1: to finally see a big group of white Americans for
Speaker 1: the first time actually glrappling with their relationship to race.
Speaker 1: That disappointment, of course, comes from what you said. You know,
Speaker 1: it's fades, It does fade, But that's always what it
Speaker 1: is right two steps forward and nine ten steps back,
Speaker 1: but you still have to like say, okay, well I
Speaker 1: think we did get that point one ten percent forward. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we keep offering excuses, and I think another excuse can't
Speaker 1: cut it. After four years of no action on reparations,
Speaker 1: I mean, we have nurses going on strike. That means
Speaker 1: people aren't getting what they need on a basic level
Speaker 1: inside of America, which should be able to at least
Speaker 1: guarantee healthcare. I mean, reparations is a piece of it,
Speaker 1: but we have so many things going on. Eric Alexander optimist.
Speaker 1: As I said, you know earlier, I do really feel
Speaker 1: the fact that when we started this project, HR forty
Speaker 1: had been in committee for thirty years. Now it's thirty
Speaker 1: two years never getting a vote. Our film covers them
Speaker 1: finally having a debate, agreeing to debate HR for the
Speaker 1: Reparations Bill in the Judiciary Committee, and voting an out
Speaker 1: of committee after markup to take it to the floor.
Speaker 1: So whenever you look around and feel depressed, there is
Speaker 1: progress being made. Is it enough? No? But I do
Speaker 1: feel like that, you know, we've moved the ball a
Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, that's I guess. Something. Well,
Speaker 1: while we were doing other things in these talks, I
Speaker 1: was invited to address the double a CP about storytelling
Speaker 1: of all things. Well, you are a storyteller, I am.
Speaker 1: And I caught up to them in Baltimore, Maryland, and
Speaker 1: they were having their staff retreat there, so I got
Speaker 1: a chance to talk to their executives questions about reparations.
Speaker 1: When the big Juna, Derek Johnson steps out live and
Speaker 1: in living color, so I took that chance to get
Speaker 1: his take on whether this was really the right moment
Speaker 1: for reparations in America and what do you say? A
Speaker 1: whole lot to say. He was in a hurry, by
Speaker 1: the way, so you know he was multitasking. He kind
Speaker 1: of stopped and chopped it up with me, but yeah,
Speaker 1: he was. He was on even gave a quick shout
Speaker 1: out to the pioneers in this movement. Well, Derrick Johnson,
Speaker 1: President and CEO of the n a CP. Preparation is
Speaker 1: an important question that we must address in this country
Speaker 1: for African Americans. Anytime you've had state sanctioned, this nation's
Speaker 1: sanctions harm against our community, whether it's segregation, slavery, redlining,
Speaker 1: or elimination out of the financial systems, we must make
Speaker 1: whole all of the families and the descendates who have
Speaker 1: been impacted. But reparation is also a global question because
Speaker 1: global companies have also exploited the continent of Africa, exploited
Speaker 1: African people, and displaced us in ways in which we
Speaker 1: have been paralyzed in terms of our future aspirations. So
Speaker 1: we are now positioned to do something about it. The
Speaker 1: double a CP, when Conman Conyers began to stir up
Speaker 1: this question around reparations through HR forty, but then a
Speaker 1: CP supported the Republican New Africa was a part of
Speaker 1: the group in Detroit at that time who begin to
Speaker 1: push for this question. Ron Daniels has been on the
Speaker 1: front line of this Amari Baraka Shoque LAMMBA. So it's
Speaker 1: very important for us to not only recognized, to fight
Speaker 1: this in front of us. To understand how we got
Speaker 1: to this place. Well, you know, it's funny, and I
Speaker 1: think that in order to understand the present, you always
Speaker 1: need to understand the past. And I think that the
Speaker 1: context of the story. So many people don't really understand
Speaker 1: the context of the story, and that's something that we
Speaker 1: really tried to do with the film, is to show
Speaker 1: that this moment that where HR four he gets passed
Speaker 1: out of committee, where Robin Ruth Simmons finally passes a
Speaker 1: tax funded respirations bill, and Evans Illinois. It's a point
Speaker 1: on a continuum, it's not a point in time. And
Speaker 1: I think it's really important to understand that, understand what
Speaker 1: it means. Yeah, for sure. I mean there have been
Speaker 1: a lot of folks who have tried to pull this
Speaker 1: bad boy up the mountaintop. But it's like taking a
Speaker 1: trip with the Grinch, who still Christmas after he stole
Speaker 1: all the toys and he's sitting on the mountain peak
Speaker 1: watching the sunrise. Remember, poor Max's dog is exhausted from hauling.
Speaker 1: There's lay up the hill. Okay, but you get the point.
Speaker 1: So who's the dog in this in this scenario, and
Speaker 1: who's the green sitting on the sled with all the presents?
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer. I don't want to know
Speaker 1: the answer. That you know the answer. They look like you.
Speaker 1: They've got all the gifts and they're watching everybody suffering
Speaker 1: who town. But you know, black people continue to move
Speaker 1: on and get things done. That's a beautiful thing. But
Speaker 1: that's a Christmas. Tell the grinch and all that I mean.
Speaker 1: Derrick Johnson also had a few things to say about
Speaker 1: the state owning the responsibility towards reparations. You think about
Speaker 1: Dr King's book, While We Came Wait in this chapter
Speaker 1: to Todays to Come, he didn't call it reparations, but
Speaker 1: what he was advocating for for the state, the nation
Speaker 1: to make whole African America's or what he called the
Speaker 1: g I b of for poor people, a g I
Speaker 1: BO that was similar to what they gave to world
Speaker 1: with two veterans, but due to individuals who have been
Speaker 1: displaced in ways out of the workforce because of mechanizations,
Speaker 1: individuals who were discriminated against bocause of race, poor white
Speaker 1: folks who have been explored as well. Even Dr King,
Speaker 1: if you read that chapter, talks about the need for
Speaker 1: this nation, through public policy, to address the harms the
Speaker 1: injuries of African Americans and other individuals. I am absolutely
Speaker 1: in supportive reparations. We have to do it decisively, we
Speaker 1: have to do it smartly, and we need to be
Speaker 1: clear and not create internal fights around the question. And
Speaker 1: know that anytime you have state sponsored harm, there should
Speaker 1: be state sponsors repair. That's called reparations. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I agree that the state owns it. But the idea
Speaker 1: that there's um not gonna be fight and argument and
Speaker 1: discussion around such a complex project, I think is just
Speaker 1: not realistic. I mean that was one of the things
Speaker 1: that really really really was my education in making this
Speaker 1: film is that, you know, in some ways it's easier
Speaker 1: on the white side because if you believe you you
Speaker 1: can just advocate for reparations, right, so I think the stense,
Speaker 1: but on the black side actually being what it is,
Speaker 1: who gets it in what form and what amount? These
Speaker 1: are really serious, complex questions, and so the idea that
Speaker 1: it's there's not going to be, you know, a debate
Speaker 1: around the question or fight srongestion is just there's almost
Speaker 1: be an American right to like actually not to to
Speaker 1: not fight about something. Yeah. But you know, speaking of which,
Speaker 1: you know, we never really talked about who was in
Speaker 1: this film. You just mentioned it. The Alder woman, Robert
Speaker 1: Ruth Simmons had these type of conversations and internal debates,
Speaker 1: didn't she. Yeah, And I think that's what you know,
Speaker 1: when when you watch the film, you'll see it's not
Speaker 1: just all white people are against reparations. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of white people for reparations. Not all black people are
Speaker 1: for represations. There's a lot of black people against reparations.
Speaker 1: There's also black people who think who don't agree on
Speaker 1: Pan African reparations versus Ato's reparations. It's a really complicated equation.
Speaker 1: And one of the things I really admire about Robin
Speaker 1: and what I hope people can see in the film
Speaker 1: is that in some ways, she made a complicated problem
Speaker 1: simple two ways. The first thing she did is she
Speaker 1: got people who agreed that reparations were needed, and people
Speaker 1: would say, without deciding agreeing what that was, she agreed
Speaker 1: that the money had to be earmarked for. And the
Speaker 1: second thing is she created a process that led to
Speaker 1: an under standing of what the reparations in her community
Speaker 1: were needed. And it became sort of this logical road
Speaker 1: to reparations for housing discrimination. Right. And then they dealt
Speaker 1: with everything that happened with that. They had a great
Speaker 1: historian to help them figure out what's going on. It's
Speaker 1: going to be that way each time you go into
Speaker 1: a different city. They got to figure out what can
Speaker 1: be done locally and what people are really interested in addressing. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's hopefully Again, the lesson of the film is that
Speaker 1: every community is going to be different. Way to approach
Speaker 1: is that how reparations are don Evanston is gonna be
Speaker 1: different than it has come outed under Detroit, San Diego,
Speaker 1: Jackson to the Mississippi. There's not a direct line between
Speaker 1: slavery and every community. There's a line, but sometimes it's
Speaker 1: a squiggly line. It's connected different things. And especially when
Speaker 1: you start talking about the legacy of slavery and the
Speaker 1: embedded structure that kept black people from participating fully in
Speaker 1: both civic life and building wealth through American capital is
Speaker 1: m It's in some form in every community, and hopefully
Speaker 1: that people can see that this is a model for
Speaker 1: how to get to what that is and then a
Speaker 1: model for how to come up with a solution how
Speaker 1: to address it. Speaking of models, we should talk about
Speaker 1: Sheila Jackson Lee. Sheila Jackson Lee, Wow, you know uh
Speaker 1: all this was going on, has officially called for an
Speaker 1: executive order something that Biden would sign to bring HR
Speaker 1: forty about and we could get on with the study.
Speaker 1: Tell us what HR forty is again. HR forty is
Speaker 1: a bill to study slavery and its legacy. How it's
Speaker 1: impacted Black Americans and make appropriate remedies, recommend appropriate remedies
Speaker 1: for dealing with those injuries and how to repair them.
Speaker 1: But it's just a study bill. It's not a bill
Speaker 1: that earmarks money. It's not a bill that says who
Speaker 1: gets it, It's not a build says how much. And
Speaker 1: this is what's always been so confusing about the resistance.
Speaker 1: HR forty. It's just a bill to talk compotent, and
Speaker 1: they're still huge resistant, right. And so I asked Derrick Johnson,
Speaker 1: president of the c P, whether he supported an executive
Speaker 1: order for HR forty. Well, we would like to see
Speaker 1: the language of the executive order, but I think all
Speaker 1: efforts are important to move in this direction. I'm also
Speaker 1: watching when it's taken place in San Francisco, where's taking
Speaker 1: place in the state of California, when they put other
Speaker 1: that commission. Dr Amos Brown are San Francisco Branch president
Speaker 1: is a part of leading that effort. So we're seeing
Speaker 1: these type of efforts not only ever seen in Illinois,
Speaker 1: but across the country because we recognize that that the
Speaker 1: government has created impediments in various or African Americans that
Speaker 1: truly live out what we call an American dream, and
Speaker 1: we need to ensure that communities, families are made whole
Speaker 1: because of those impediments. See, that's great. He loves an
Speaker 1: executive order too, but he's interested in the language of it.
Speaker 1: I think that's a big deal. Everybody's now saying the
Speaker 1: down for Biden to bring about an executive order for
Speaker 1: our forty, and I think that that's really the only
Speaker 1: way that this is gonna done in the next couple years,
Speaker 1: especially now with the Republican House, is that even though
Speaker 1: Representative Jackson Lee had the votes, she had the votes
Speaker 1: to pass out of the House, the leadership, as much
Speaker 1: as I love Nancy Pelosi, did not bring it to
Speaker 1: the floor. And I think they did not put the
Speaker 1: floor because they were afraid of the mid terms. And
Speaker 1: so now with the House and the hands of Republicans,
Speaker 1: the only way that HR forty is going to happen
Speaker 1: now is to an executive order. That's right, and that's
Speaker 1: why my next question to Derek Johnson was very important.
Speaker 1: Did he think that reparations would happen in our lifetime?
Speaker 1: Freedom is a constant struggle, So it's not about what
Speaker 1: we see, is about what we do to make sure
Speaker 1: we are part of this continuum to ensure that our
Speaker 1: future is a future of freedom in a way in
Speaker 1: which our answers is only dreamed for. Wow, you know
Speaker 1: what that makes me think about Erica is that it
Speaker 1: also it's not only what our ancestors would dream of.
Speaker 1: I also feel like it's what you're in my contemporaries
Speaker 1: would dream of to actually live in a world where
Speaker 1: reparations is taking place, and then you and I and
Speaker 1: I think all black and white Americans could have a
Speaker 1: different relationship with the other and actually built towards something
Speaker 1: much more cohesive. So it's not just ancestors. I think
Speaker 1: it's also for us as well, of course, and that's
Speaker 1: what we're talking about. It's that freedom must be a reality.
Speaker 1: But in our building of what reparations could provide for
Speaker 1: the world, it's all a dream right now, and that
Speaker 1: we're dream and hope and all these things keep coming
Speaker 1: up when we talk about reparations, which I think is
Speaker 1: kind of beautiful because it says that we're striving for something,
Speaker 1: But it's also mixed with the hard facts of what
Speaker 1: I think my people deserve. So that's why we have
Speaker 1: so many I think wide swings, you know, people who
Speaker 1: are for it and people who are against it. But
Speaker 1: right in the middle there is freedom and dream and
Speaker 1: all the beautiful things we say we can be in America.
Speaker 1: But you know what we're always going to come up against.
Speaker 1: The obstacle in the obstacle now is that we need
Speaker 1: help from white people. Didn't you ask him about them,
Speaker 1: you know, Whitney. I did ask him that. I wondered,
Speaker 1: how can we build a coalition with white folks? And
Speaker 1: he had a good answer for it, be focused on
Speaker 1: public policy and not be distracted by tribalism and mothering.
Speaker 1: Mothering is a distraction around the questions of public policy.
Speaker 1: And if we are focused on public policy, we are
Speaker 1: up to uphold that social contract we call the Constitution.
Speaker 1: Is not a one community responsibility, is a joint responsibility
Speaker 1: of all citizens of this country. And therefore we must
Speaker 1: be a coalitions coalitions. Everyone always says that word coalitions.
Speaker 1: What is the coalition? What's a white coalition? In fact,
Speaker 1: what's the coalition? Damn? A coalition? Why I think about
Speaker 1: it is it's a group that shares goals but don't
Speaker 1: necessarily share motivations. And so you have to learn how
Speaker 1: well done with me? How to find people that you
Speaker 1: share goals with and the idea of your motivations are
Speaker 1: kind of irrelevant. And I think there's so much time
Speaker 1: people focus on who we are and where we're coming from.
Speaker 1: I can work with you towards something that we both
Speaker 1: agree as important without necessarily completely understanding you or your experience.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what's really critical in this is
Speaker 1: that white Americans and Black Americans who mean well and
Speaker 1: want reparations are moving towards it for two very different reasons. Okay,
Speaker 1: I think that's interesting because Robert Luce Simmons, who's an
Speaker 1: alder woman, and Eviston had to make a coalition among
Speaker 1: the council people. Was it um five white council people
Speaker 1: to three black? But they got it through. And that
Speaker 1: was the amazing thing. That's coalition building, isn't it? And
Speaker 1: that isactly what I said, is that the people of
Speaker 1: the fifth Ward and the people the third ward have
Speaker 1: very different motivations for wanting to get it done, but
Speaker 1: they did come together and get it done. That's cool.
Speaker 1: That's what we need more of that. Now you're getting
Speaker 1: all like warm and fuzzy on me, so you're start singing.
Speaker 1: Imagine soon. No, really well hopeful. I guess that's optimistic.
Speaker 1: You know, the thing that they get the biggest pushback for.
Speaker 1: And there are people in this film that thought that
Speaker 1: they weren't responsible for what happened in the past, and
Speaker 1: why should they be held responsible for it? So what's
Speaker 1: the answer to that when white people say that? And
Speaker 1: I got a chance to ask Derek Johnson this question,
Speaker 1: because I think that's what people struggle with, is how
Speaker 1: do you answer that in a modern day that people
Speaker 1: who live here, whether they came after slavery or live
Speaker 1: now because they were born after slavery, have any responsibility
Speaker 1: for the past, wrong or right? And uh, I think
Speaker 1: he had a really good answer on it. We keep
Speaker 1: pushing because our truth is the truth, and the truth
Speaker 1: is what we need to step on and stand on
Speaker 1: firmly to ensure that we are made hold as a
Speaker 1: community for our future. You know, those are really nice sentiments,
Speaker 1: and I agree that we have to keep pushing for
Speaker 1: the truth. But I also think that sometimes focusing on
Speaker 1: responsibility about the past is not the question. It's not
Speaker 1: about responsibility for the past, it's about responsibility to the present.
Speaker 1: And that I think if you say, okay, I'm responsible
Speaker 1: for this thing it happened. No, you're responsible for the
Speaker 1: conditions of the community that you live in now. And
Speaker 1: if you believe that things are unjust and you want
Speaker 1: to change it, then you have to come together and
Speaker 1: work for change. Yeah, but it's white people are saying that,
Speaker 1: and they don't believe that there's have any relationship to
Speaker 1: what you just said. No, but I think that there
Speaker 1: that's because I think they're focusing on the wrong thing.
Speaker 1: They're saying, oh, this is in the past. They're not
Speaker 1: looking at the problem now and saying, you know, whether
Speaker 1: or not I created that, I live in this unequal present,
Speaker 1: and if I believe in justice, I need to address
Speaker 1: the injuries that exist from the past now if I
Speaker 1: want a better future, right, I think that's hard going
Speaker 1: to be hard. So no matter how you put it,
Speaker 1: Because if people don't think they're affected by the past
Speaker 1: at all and they're doing something for the people who
Speaker 1: so called are affected by it, I don't think they
Speaker 1: realize that they have been injured and that there's injury
Speaker 1: to themselves and their future. Their family and everything around
Speaker 1: them is being pulled down because we haven't addressed it.
Speaker 1: And that's what I'd say to white people that if
Speaker 1: you don't think you're being affected by the past, you are.
Speaker 1: If you're seeing systemic things happening in the society that
Speaker 1: you think are just affecting people based on whether they're
Speaker 1: just newly here or they have a different color, or
Speaker 1: there might just be inequity and inequality baked into every society,
Speaker 1: you're not really understanding how systems work. That if one
Speaker 1: part of the population is being affected unjustly and you
Speaker 1: can't look at the systemic issues or what caused it
Speaker 1: and say, you know, we have a responsibility to address
Speaker 1: it no matter who did it, then you also aren't
Speaker 1: looking at how this thing might affect you. And I
Speaker 1: think over and over again, if we look at the cities,
Speaker 1: if you look at the things that happen inside of
Speaker 1: rule areas, if we look at all sorts of things
Speaker 1: that African Americans have issue with, we'd see that they
Speaker 1: are overwhelmingly affecting the lives of all Americans. And we
Speaker 1: have to see ourselves not only in this fight for
Speaker 1: the people, but in a fight for our own lives.
Speaker 1: If you see someone drowning Erica, you don't not help
Speaker 1: them because you don't think you're responsible for them fully
Speaker 1: and maybe you push them in, maybe you didn't, but
Speaker 1: the fact is that that person is part of your
Speaker 1: community and needs help, and by you taking that action,
Speaker 1: you will be doing something not only for them, but
Speaker 1: for you. And if you don't take action, I think
Speaker 1: you will continue to exacerbate your own injury. And that
Speaker 1: sounds really weird and kind of like, uh, you know, countertuitive.
Speaker 1: But if you don't take action, you injure yourself absolutely.
Speaker 1: And I also think over and over again, black people
Speaker 1: have been trying to save white people from themselves. And
Speaker 1: I know that's a harsh thing to say, but the
Speaker 1: drowning person is not the black person, is the white person.
Speaker 1: You get a chance to save yourself, And if you
Speaker 1: think that the other person is drowning in, you're not
Speaker 1: trust and believe it is you drowning. Black people are
Speaker 1: used to doggy paddling, you know, and floating on our backs,
Speaker 1: you know. The weird part is and I love the
Speaker 1: water metaphor maybe because that's what Martin Luther king City says.
Speaker 1: We might have gotten here on different ships, but we
Speaker 1: all in the same boat now, and that's real. So
Speaker 1: to sort of like bring this you know back around, Eric,
Speaker 1: I guess the thing is is that we're at the
Speaker 1: end of this particular journey, right, the particular journey of
Speaker 1: this film, and in some ways you arbitrarily in the story, right,
Speaker 1: we arbitrarily into this story at a particular moment in time.
Speaker 1: But the story goes on, and UM really excited for
Speaker 1: people to see this film, and I'm even more exciting
Speaker 1: to see where Robin were represented, Jackson Lee and where
Speaker 1: the movement goes next. That's true. But you know what, Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: like a really great film, this is a franchise. So
Speaker 1: this film has not ended. Now this is part one,
Speaker 1: and I love that you said that this film is
Speaker 1: not just a film. It's a tool and people are
Speaker 1: using it to have conversations and to build their own
Speaker 1: reparations programs within cities. They're also able to talk about
Speaker 1: it and screen it. And we're doing a debate series
Speaker 1: that people should know about and we're really excited about that.
Speaker 1: This debate series called The Big Payback. We'll go through
Speaker 1: HBCUs and predominantly white institutions and all over American communities
Speaker 1: and we'll be able to talk about something that people
Speaker 1: for a long time have been afraid of and thought
Speaker 1: was controversial, but we're able to normalize discussing reparations and
Speaker 1: see if we can get the help of the best
Speaker 1: minds and stoke the fires about this and get in
Speaker 1: there really have some ownership of it. And so that's
Speaker 1: why I'm excited. This thing has been great. It's been
Speaker 1: great doing it with you. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: your hard work. And I think we should give a
Speaker 1: really great shout out to the filmmaking ben are none
Speaker 1: we can not do without us, Anne Parker, Melissa Chris Kevin.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's been so many people who made this
Speaker 1: film possibly and also the other thing I would ask
Speaker 1: you area, where can people get more information? Oh, they
Speaker 1: should go to the Big Payback movie dot com. They
Speaker 1: should also go to First Repair dot Org Robin Ruth
Speaker 1: Simmons organization. If they're interested in doing something in their city.
Speaker 1: There's going to be a full discussion guide about the
Speaker 1: film and also how to make it happen yourself. I
Speaker 1: think that's cool, that's sexy. We always talk about the
Speaker 1: power of the biggest nation, which is imagination, and I
Speaker 1: think that's what we need to do right now in
Speaker 1: this moment, is imagine a world and then make it happen.
Speaker 1: See you, Whitney Reparations. The Big Payback is a production
Speaker 1: of color Farm Media, I Heart Radio and The Black
Speaker 1: Effect Podcast Network in association with Best Case Studio. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the I heart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
Speaker 1: favorite shows.