1 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:09,120 Speaker 1: I'm Erica Alexander and I'm Whitney. Now welcome to reparations 2 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: The Big Payback, a production of Color Farm Media, I 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, and The Black Effect Podcast Network. So here 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: we are. Yeah, here we are, back in the saddle, 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: back in the saddle. I'm glad we came back here 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: to celebrate our big premiere of The Big Payback documentary. 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: I mean, we've come full circle. Absolutely, it's really exciting 8 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: to be back here talking about this. I mean, when 9 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: I met you what three and a half almost four 10 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: years ago, the idea that we'd be now here four 11 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: years later talking about the premiere of the documentary, that 12 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: we would have done a podcast. You're not doing a 13 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: follow up episode to the podcast. I wouldn't believed it. 14 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: But uh, it certainly has been quite a year. It's 15 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: been a big year, and so congratulations to us, dude, 16 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: and to everyone who worked on It's been a real 17 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: push to get here. I have a hernia to prove it. Actually, 18 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: I'm not kidding about that. I do. But anyway, I'm 19 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: excited to talk about our film. But before we do, 20 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: let's talk about what you've been doing since we've been 21 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: gone all this time. What have you been up to. 22 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: As I said, it's been a pretty intense year, you know, 23 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: I look about you know, here we are in January. 24 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: Last January, we were pushing to finish the end of 25 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: the film, wrapping it up, scoring it and mixing it, 26 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: coloring it, getting it ready for Tribeca, launching it Tribeca. 27 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: That big show that we did at the Apollo Theater 28 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: in New York, which was so big. That was sexy, 29 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: wasn't it great? That was one of my my favorite events. 30 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: Free event on June tenth, the big payback at the 31 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: Apollo Theater. That was a lot of fun. It's pretty awesome, 32 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: very awesome. And to the people who came out on 33 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: Father's Day, by the way to do that, that was great. 34 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: They came out for me, No, they came out for 35 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,839 Speaker 1: Robin Bruce Simmons. But that's another story. It's all good though, 36 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: and yees. So then as you know, I'm working on 37 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: another film. Was not a director on White Sharks. I 38 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: know that that's sometimes well, you you know, you think 39 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: a lot of the white sharks, both quoth, the finned 40 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: kind and the two legged kind, but this is about 41 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: the finn kind that we're doing for uh, for a 42 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: major streamer, and um, you know the projects working on 43 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: a Korea so doing that, kids going back to school, 44 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: kids coming out of school, coming back home, which is 45 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: always like Europe, Papa Papa three times over. And now 46 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: what's so exciting. We're getting ready for the broadcast and 47 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: streaming launch of our film, The Big Payback on PBS 48 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: is Independent Lens. That's right, really excited about that. I've 49 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: been busy too, you know. I mean, well, you're always 50 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: I've been to. I've been busy to you know, you're 51 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: always busy. When iome my messages Erica, they're all like 52 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: Erica Alexander's assistant, and it's like, who's like doing your sean, 53 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: who's doing your schedule? Well, listen, I appreciate hard work 54 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: and to do this. I think it's important that people 55 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: understand that we're doing all of these things while we 56 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: live life and we have Really let's get a run 57 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: down what you've been doing over the last year. If 58 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: I was making they'd be proud of me because I've 59 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: had several jobs. I've had several jobs. Check this. I've 60 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: done four television series, five movies, including co directing The 61 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: Big Payback with you another audio series. We did really 62 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: well with that among a ton of other things to survive. 63 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: I even got a chance to watch a few movies, 64 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 1: you know, actually go out and do that. I'm a 65 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: little tired just thinking about it. The Renaissance wom but 66 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: I am. And by the way, since then, the world 67 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: has moved Congress. They've even had another attempt at an 68 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: insurrection kind of you know. McCarthy is, um, can you 69 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: believe that? That's freaky? Our latest export to Brazil. McCarthy is, yes, 70 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: how the storm a capital. This is nuts. It just 71 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,119 Speaker 1: shows you how connected the United States is the world, 72 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: how influential it is. It really matters what happens here. Absolutely, 73 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: Just I just want to go back to one thing. 74 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: I just wanted to get your thoughts on what it 75 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: was like, after three night years to see that film 76 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: in the theater for the first time. It was a 77 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: beautiful moment. My mother came in for it, and our friends, 78 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: and it's also was my directorial debut with you, and 79 00:03:58,280 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: so I have to thank you because you taught me 80 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: a lot about directing films and specifically documentaries and how 81 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: to manage the process. You know, I have a lot 82 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: to learn in those areas, But I was as proud 83 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: that after everything that happened in and just everything we 84 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: had to do, including different podcasts, we were there and 85 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: we were in that moment, and I thought I looked 86 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: really sexy too, but I was I didn't think in 87 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 1: the moment that I really took it in like I 88 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: should have. But afterwards there was a lot of you know, 89 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 1: deep thoughts and a lot of grateful, gratitude thoughts. I 90 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: loved that. What about you, how did you feel? My 91 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: favorite moment, You know, you do this thing for a 92 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: lot of different reasons. My favorite moment, uh we launched 93 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: the film was I think I don't know if you 94 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: remember the second screening it TRACKBACKA a woman got up 95 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: using tears. She said, I feel like I just watched 96 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: the super Bowl and black people won boom, And that 97 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: was like the nicest compliment and he's ever given me 98 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: about a movie I've made, so I was really exciting. Wow, 99 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: that's a great moment. I mean, you know, it's beautiful 100 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: to have those moments, but we have to really deal 101 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: with the fact that if we can't even stop the 102 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: swarm in Congress of people breaking windows and doing those 103 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: type of things and we thought there would be a 104 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: lot of goodwill after the public lynching of George Floyd. 105 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: It doesn't seem to have had a lasting effect. And 106 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: I'm not being cynical when I say a murder seems 107 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: to get you like two years of progress, And that's 108 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: not funny. How that's like funny queer? Like, what gives? 109 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: Why the violent swings? What do white people want? What? 110 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: What will it take for white folks to stop being 111 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: day trippers to a struggle of blacks in America? And 112 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,679 Speaker 1: how can we get this going? You know, it's funny 113 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: because I think I have sort of two feelings about Erica, 114 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: one in that are both exalted and disappointed. And exalted 115 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: in the sense that I had people in my life, 116 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: white people in my life talking to me about race 117 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: um in a way they never had during two thousand 118 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: and twenty in ways I never thought they would in 119 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 1: two thousand and twenty, and so it was so exciting 120 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: to finally see a big group of white Americans for 121 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: the first time actually glrappling with their relationship to race. 122 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: That disappointment, of course, comes from what you said. You know, 123 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: it's fades, It does fade, But that's always what it 124 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: is right two steps forward and nine ten steps back, 125 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: but you still have to like say, okay, well I 126 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: think we did get that point one ten percent forward. Yeah, 127 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: we keep offering excuses, and I think another excuse can't 128 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: cut it. After four years of no action on reparations, 129 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: I mean, we have nurses going on strike. That means 130 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: people aren't getting what they need on a basic level 131 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: inside of America, which should be able to at least 132 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: guarantee healthcare. I mean, reparations is a piece of it, 133 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: but we have so many things going on. Eric Alexander optimist. 134 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: As I said, you know earlier, I do really feel 135 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: the fact that when we started this project, HR forty 136 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: had been in committee for thirty years. Now it's thirty 137 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: two years never getting a vote. Our film covers them 138 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: finally having a debate, agreeing to debate HR for the 139 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: Reparations Bill in the Judiciary Committee, and voting an out 140 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: of committee after markup to take it to the floor. 141 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: So whenever you look around and feel depressed, there is 142 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: progress being made. Is it enough? No? But I do 143 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: feel like that, you know, we've moved the ball a 144 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, that's I guess. Something. Well, 145 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: while we were doing other things in these talks, I 146 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: was invited to address the double a CP about storytelling 147 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: of all things. Well, you are a storyteller, I am. 148 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: And I caught up to them in Baltimore, Maryland, and 149 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: they were having their staff retreat there, so I got 150 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: a chance to talk to their executives questions about reparations. 151 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: When the big Juna, Derek Johnson steps out live and 152 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: in living color, so I took that chance to get 153 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: his take on whether this was really the right moment 154 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: for reparations in America and what do you say? A 155 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: whole lot to say. He was in a hurry, by 156 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: the way, so you know he was multitasking. He kind 157 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: of stopped and chopped it up with me, but yeah, 158 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: he was. He was on even gave a quick shout 159 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: out to the pioneers in this movement. Well, Derrick Johnson, 160 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: President and CEO of the n a CP. Preparation is 161 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: an important question that we must address in this country 162 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: for African Americans. Anytime you've had state sanctioned, this nation's 163 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: sanctions harm against our community, whether it's segregation, slavery, redlining, 164 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: or elimination out of the financial systems, we must make 165 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: whole all of the families and the descendates who have 166 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,239 Speaker 1: been impacted. But reparation is also a global question because 167 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: global companies have also exploited the continent of Africa, exploited 168 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: African people, and displaced us in ways in which we 169 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: have been paralyzed in terms of our future aspirations. So 170 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: we are now positioned to do something about it. The 171 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: double a CP, when Conman Conyers began to stir up 172 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: this question around reparations through HR forty, but then a 173 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: CP supported the Republican New Africa was a part of 174 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: the group in Detroit at that time who begin to 175 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: push for this question. Ron Daniels has been on the 176 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: front line of this Amari Baraka Shoque LAMMBA. So it's 177 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: very important for us to not only recognized, to fight 178 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: this in front of us. To understand how we got 179 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: to this place. Well, you know, it's funny, and I 180 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 1: think that in order to understand the present, you always 181 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: need to understand the past. And I think that the 182 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: context of the story. So many people don't really understand 183 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: the context of the story, and that's something that we 184 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: really tried to do with the film, is to show 185 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: that this moment that where HR four he gets passed 186 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: out of committee, where Robin Ruth Simmons finally passes a 187 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: tax funded respirations bill, and Evans Illinois. It's a point 188 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: on a continuum, it's not a point in time. And 189 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: I think it's really important to understand that, understand what 190 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: it means. Yeah, for sure. I mean there have been 191 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 1: a lot of folks who have tried to pull this 192 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: bad boy up the mountaintop. But it's like taking a 193 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: trip with the Grinch, who still Christmas after he stole 194 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: all the toys and he's sitting on the mountain peak 195 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: watching the sunrise. Remember, poor Max's dog is exhausted from hauling. 196 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: There's lay up the hill. Okay, but you get the point. 197 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 1: So who's the dog in this in this scenario, and 198 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: who's the green sitting on the sled with all the presents? 199 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: I don't know the answer. I don't want to know 200 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: the answer. That you know the answer. They look like you. 201 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: They've got all the gifts and they're watching everybody suffering 202 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: who town. But you know, black people continue to move 203 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: on and get things done. That's a beautiful thing. But 204 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: that's a Christmas. Tell the grinch and all that I mean. 205 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: Derrick Johnson also had a few things to say about 206 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: the state owning the responsibility towards reparations. You think about 207 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: Dr King's book, While We Came Wait in this chapter 208 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: to Todays to Come, he didn't call it reparations, but 209 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: what he was advocating for for the state, the nation 210 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: to make whole African America's or what he called the 211 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: g I b of for poor people, a g I 212 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: BO that was similar to what they gave to world 213 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 1: with two veterans, but due to individuals who have been 214 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: displaced in ways out of the workforce because of mechanizations, 215 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: individuals who were discriminated against bocause of race, poor white 216 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: folks who have been explored as well. Even Dr King, 217 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: if you read that chapter, talks about the need for 218 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: this nation, through public policy, to address the harms the 219 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: injuries of African Americans and other individuals. I am absolutely 220 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: in supportive reparations. We have to do it decisively, we 221 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: have to do it smartly, and we need to be 222 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: clear and not create internal fights around the question. And 223 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: know that anytime you have state sponsored harm, there should 224 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: be state sponsors repair. That's called reparations. Yeah, I mean, 225 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: I agree that the state owns it. But the idea 226 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: that there's um not gonna be fight and argument and 227 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: discussion around such a complex project, I think is just 228 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: not realistic. I mean that was one of the things 229 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: that really really really was my education in making this 230 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 1: film is that, you know, in some ways it's easier 231 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: on the white side because if you believe you you 232 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: can just advocate for reparations, right, so I think the stense, 233 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: but on the black side actually being what it is, 234 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: who gets it in what form and what amount? These 235 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: are really serious, complex questions, and so the idea that 236 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: it's there's not going to be, you know, a debate 237 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: around the question or fight srongestion is just there's almost 238 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: be an American right to like actually not to to 239 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: not fight about something. Yeah. But you know, speaking of which, 240 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, we never really talked about who was in 241 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: this film. You just mentioned it. The Alder woman, Robert 242 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: Ruth Simmons had these type of conversations and internal debates, 243 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: didn't she. Yeah, And I think that's what you know, 244 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: when when you watch the film, you'll see it's not 245 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: just all white people are against reparations. There's a lot 246 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: of white people for reparations. Not all black people are 247 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: for represations. There's a lot of black people against reparations. 248 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: There's also black people who think who don't agree on 249 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: Pan African reparations versus Ato's reparations. It's a really complicated equation. 250 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: And one of the things I really admire about Robin 251 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: and what I hope people can see in the film 252 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: is that in some ways, she made a complicated problem 253 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: simple two ways. The first thing she did is she 254 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: got people who agreed that reparations were needed, and people 255 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: would say, without deciding agreeing what that was, she agreed 256 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: that the money had to be earmarked for. And the 257 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: second thing is she created a process that led to 258 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: an under standing of what the reparations in her community 259 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: were needed. And it became sort of this logical road 260 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: to reparations for housing discrimination. Right. And then they dealt 261 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: with everything that happened with that. They had a great 262 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: historian to help them figure out what's going on. It's 263 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: going to be that way each time you go into 264 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 1: a different city. They got to figure out what can 265 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:27,079 Speaker 1: be done locally and what people are really interested in addressing. Right, Yeah, 266 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: that's hopefully Again, the lesson of the film is that 267 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: every community is going to be different. Way to approach 268 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: is that how reparations are don Evanston is gonna be 269 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: different than it has come outed under Detroit, San Diego, 270 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: Jackson to the Mississippi. There's not a direct line between 271 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: slavery and every community. There's a line, but sometimes it's 272 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: a squiggly line. It's connected different things. And especially when 273 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: you start talking about the legacy of slavery and the 274 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: embedded structure that kept black people from participating fully in 275 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: both civic life and building wealth through American capital is 276 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: m It's in some form in every community, and hopefully 277 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: that people can see that this is a model for 278 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: how to get to what that is and then a 279 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: model for how to come up with a solution how 280 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: to address it. Speaking of models, we should talk about 281 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: Sheila Jackson Lee. Sheila Jackson Lee, Wow, you know uh 282 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: all this was going on, has officially called for an 283 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: executive order something that Biden would sign to bring HR 284 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: forty about and we could get on with the study. 285 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: Tell us what HR forty is again. HR forty is 286 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: a bill to study slavery and its legacy. How it's 287 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: impacted Black Americans and make appropriate remedies, recommend appropriate remedies 288 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: for dealing with those injuries and how to repair them. 289 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: But it's just a study bill. It's not a bill 290 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: that earmarks money. It's not a bill that says who 291 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: gets it, It's not a build says how much. And 292 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: this is what's always been so confusing about the resistance. 293 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: HR forty. It's just a bill to talk compotent, and 294 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: they're still huge resistant, right. And so I asked Derrick Johnson, 295 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: president of the c P, whether he supported an executive 296 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: order for HR forty. Well, we would like to see 297 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: the language of the executive order, but I think all 298 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: efforts are important to move in this direction. I'm also 299 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: watching when it's taken place in San Francisco, where's taking 300 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: place in the state of California, when they put other 301 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: that commission. Dr Amos Brown are San Francisco Branch president 302 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: is a part of leading that effort. So we're seeing 303 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: these type of efforts not only ever seen in Illinois, 304 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: but across the country because we recognize that that the 305 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: government has created impediments in various or African Americans that 306 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: truly live out what we call an American dream, and 307 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: we need to ensure that communities, families are made whole 308 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: because of those impediments. See, that's great. He loves an 309 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: executive order too, but he's interested in the language of it. 310 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: I think that's a big deal. Everybody's now saying the 311 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: down for Biden to bring about an executive order for 312 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: our forty, and I think that that's really the only 313 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: way that this is gonna done in the next couple years, 314 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: especially now with the Republican House, is that even though 315 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: Representative Jackson Lee had the votes, she had the votes 316 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: to pass out of the House, the leadership, as much 317 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: as I love Nancy Pelosi, did not bring it to 318 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: the floor. And I think they did not put the 319 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: floor because they were afraid of the mid terms. And 320 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: so now with the House and the hands of Republicans, 321 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: the only way that HR forty is going to happen 322 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: now is to an executive order. That's right, and that's 323 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: why my next question to Derek Johnson was very important. 324 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: Did he think that reparations would happen in our lifetime? 325 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: Freedom is a constant struggle, So it's not about what 326 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: we see, is about what we do to make sure 327 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: we are part of this continuum to ensure that our 328 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: future is a future of freedom in a way in 329 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: which our answers is only dreamed for. Wow, you know 330 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: what that makes me think about Erica is that it 331 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: also it's not only what our ancestors would dream of. 332 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: I also feel like it's what you're in my contemporaries 333 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: would dream of to actually live in a world where 334 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: reparations is taking place, and then you and I and 335 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: I think all black and white Americans could have a 336 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 1: different relationship with the other and actually built towards something 337 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: much more cohesive. So it's not just ancestors. I think 338 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: it's also for us as well, of course, and that's 339 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: what we're talking about. It's that freedom must be a reality. 340 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 1: But in our building of what reparations could provide for 341 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: the world, it's all a dream right now, and that 342 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: we're dream and hope and all these things keep coming 343 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: up when we talk about reparations, which I think is 344 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: kind of beautiful because it says that we're striving for something, 345 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: But it's also mixed with the hard facts of what 346 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,719 Speaker 1: I think my people deserve. So that's why we have 347 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: so many I think wide swings, you know, people who 348 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 1: are for it and people who are against it. But 349 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: right in the middle there is freedom and dream and 350 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: all the beautiful things we say we can be in America. 351 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: But you know what we're always going to come up against. 352 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: The obstacle in the obstacle now is that we need 353 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: help from white people. Didn't you ask him about them, 354 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: you know, Whitney. I did ask him that. I wondered, 355 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: how can we build a coalition with white folks? And 356 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 1: he had a good answer for it, be focused on 357 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: public policy and not be distracted by tribalism and mothering. 358 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: Mothering is a distraction around the questions of public policy. 359 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: And if we are focused on public policy, we are 360 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: up to uphold that social contract we call the Constitution. 361 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 1: Is not a one community responsibility, is a joint responsibility 362 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: of all citizens of this country. And therefore we must 363 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 1: be a coalitions coalitions. Everyone always says that word coalitions. 364 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: What is the coalition? What's a white coalition? In fact, 365 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: what's the coalition? Damn? A coalition? Why I think about 366 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: it is it's a group that shares goals but don't 367 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: necessarily share motivations. And so you have to learn how 368 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: well done with me? How to find people that you 369 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,719 Speaker 1: share goals with and the idea of your motivations are 370 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: kind of irrelevant. And I think there's so much time 371 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: people focus on who we are and where we're coming from. 372 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: I can work with you towards something that we both 373 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: agree as important without necessarily completely understanding you or your experience. 374 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: And I think that's what's really critical in this is 375 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: that white Americans and Black Americans who mean well and 376 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: want reparations are moving towards it for two very different reasons. Okay, 377 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: I think that's interesting because Robert Luce Simmons, who's an 378 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: alder woman, and Eviston had to make a coalition among 379 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: the council people. Was it um five white council people 380 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: to three black? But they got it through. And that 381 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: was the amazing thing. That's coalition building, isn't it? And 382 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: that isactly what I said, is that the people of 383 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: the fifth Ward and the people the third ward have 384 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: very different motivations for wanting to get it done, but 385 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: they did come together and get it done. That's cool. 386 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: That's what we need more of that. Now you're getting 387 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: all like warm and fuzzy on me, so you're start singing. 388 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: Imagine soon. No, really well hopeful. I guess that's optimistic. 389 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,199 Speaker 1: You know, the thing that they get the biggest pushback for. 390 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: And there are people in this film that thought that 391 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: they weren't responsible for what happened in the past, and 392 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: why should they be held responsible for it? So what's 393 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: the answer to that when white people say that? And 394 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: I got a chance to ask Derek Johnson this question, 395 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: because I think that's what people struggle with, is how 396 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 1: do you answer that in a modern day that people 397 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: who live here, whether they came after slavery or live 398 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: now because they were born after slavery, have any responsibility 399 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 1: for the past, wrong or right? And uh, I think 400 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: he had a really good answer on it. We keep 401 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: pushing because our truth is the truth, and the truth 402 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: is what we need to step on and stand on 403 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: firmly to ensure that we are made hold as a 404 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: community for our future. You know, those are really nice sentiments, 405 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: and I agree that we have to keep pushing for 406 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 1: the truth. But I also think that sometimes focusing on 407 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: responsibility about the past is not the question. It's not 408 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: about responsibility for the past, it's about responsibility to the present. 409 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: And that I think if you say, okay, I'm responsible 410 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: for this thing it happened. No, you're responsible for the 411 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: conditions of the community that you live in now. And 412 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 1: if you believe that things are unjust and you want 413 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: to change it, then you have to come together and 414 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: work for change. Yeah, but it's white people are saying that, 415 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: and they don't believe that there's have any relationship to 416 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: what you just said. No, but I think that there 417 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: that's because I think they're focusing on the wrong thing. 418 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: They're saying, oh, this is in the past. They're not 419 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: looking at the problem now and saying, you know, whether 420 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: or not I created that, I live in this unequal present, 421 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: and if I believe in justice, I need to address 422 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: the injuries that exist from the past now if I 423 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: want a better future, right, I think that's hard going 424 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: to be hard. So no matter how you put it, 425 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: Because if people don't think they're affected by the past 426 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: at all and they're doing something for the people who 427 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: so called are affected by it, I don't think they 428 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: realize that they have been injured and that there's injury 429 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: to themselves and their future. Their family and everything around 430 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: them is being pulled down because we haven't addressed it. 431 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: And that's what I'd say to white people that if 432 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: you don't think you're being affected by the past, you are. 433 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: If you're seeing systemic things happening in the society that 434 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: you think are just affecting people based on whether they're 435 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 1: just newly here or they have a different color, or 436 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: there might just be inequity and inequality baked into every society, 437 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: you're not really understanding how systems work. That if one 438 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 1: part of the population is being affected unjustly and you 439 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: can't look at the systemic issues or what caused it 440 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: and say, you know, we have a responsibility to address 441 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: it no matter who did it, then you also aren't 442 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: looking at how this thing might affect you. And I 443 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: think over and over again, if we look at the cities, 444 00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: if you look at the things that happen inside of 445 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: rule areas, if we look at all sorts of things 446 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: that African Americans have issue with, we'd see that they 447 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: are overwhelmingly affecting the lives of all Americans. And we 448 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: have to see ourselves not only in this fight for 449 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: the people, but in a fight for our own lives. 450 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 1: If you see someone drowning Erica, you don't not help 451 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: them because you don't think you're responsible for them fully 452 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: and maybe you push them in, maybe you didn't, but 453 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 1: the fact is that that person is part of your 454 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: community and needs help, and by you taking that action, 455 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: you will be doing something not only for them, but 456 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: for you. And if you don't take action, I think 457 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: you will continue to exacerbate your own injury. And that 458 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: sounds really weird and kind of like, uh, you know, countertuitive. 459 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: But if you don't take action, you injure yourself absolutely. 460 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: And I also think over and over again, black people 461 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: have been trying to save white people from themselves. And 462 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: I know that's a harsh thing to say, but the 463 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: drowning person is not the black person, is the white person. 464 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: You get a chance to save yourself, And if you 465 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: think that the other person is drowning in, you're not 466 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,959 Speaker 1: trust and believe it is you drowning. Black people are 467 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: used to doggy paddling, you know, and floating on our backs, 468 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: you know. The weird part is and I love the 469 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: water metaphor maybe because that's what Martin Luther king City says. 470 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: We might have gotten here on different ships, but we 471 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: all in the same boat now, and that's real. So 472 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: to sort of like bring this you know back around, Eric, 473 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: I guess the thing is is that we're at the 474 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: end of this particular journey, right, the particular journey of 475 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: this film, and in some ways you arbitrarily in the story, right, 476 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 1: we arbitrarily into this story at a particular moment in time. 477 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: But the story goes on, and UM really excited for 478 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: people to see this film, and I'm even more exciting 479 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: to see where Robin were represented, Jackson Lee and where 480 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: the movement goes next. That's true. But you know what, Unfortunately, 481 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: like a really great film, this is a franchise. So 482 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: this film has not ended. Now this is part one, 483 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: and I love that you said that this film is 484 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: not just a film. It's a tool and people are 485 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: using it to have conversations and to build their own 486 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: reparations programs within cities. They're also able to talk about 487 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 1: it and screen it. And we're doing a debate series 488 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: that people should know about and we're really excited about that. 489 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: This debate series called The Big Payback. We'll go through 490 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: HBCUs and predominantly white institutions and all over American communities 491 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: and we'll be able to talk about something that people 492 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: for a long time have been afraid of and thought 493 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: was controversial, but we're able to normalize discussing reparations and 494 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: see if we can get the help of the best 495 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: minds and stoke the fires about this and get in 496 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: there really have some ownership of it. And so that's 497 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,360 Speaker 1: why I'm excited. This thing has been great. It's been 498 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: great doing it with you. Thank you so much for 499 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: your hard work. And I think we should give a 500 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: really great shout out to the filmmaking ben are none 501 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: we can not do without us, Anne Parker, Melissa Chris Kevin. 502 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: I mean, there's been so many people who made this 503 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: film possibly and also the other thing I would ask 504 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 1: you area, where can people get more information? Oh, they 505 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: should go to the Big Payback movie dot com. They 506 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: should also go to First Repair dot Org Robin Ruth 507 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 1: Simmons organization. If they're interested in doing something in their city. 508 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: There's going to be a full discussion guide about the 509 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: film and also how to make it happen yourself. I 510 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: think that's cool, that's sexy. We always talk about the 511 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: power of the biggest nation, which is imagination, and I 512 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: think that's what we need to do right now in 513 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: this moment, is imagine a world and then make it happen. 514 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: See you, Whitney Reparations. The Big Payback is a production 515 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: of color Farm Media, I Heart Radio and The Black 516 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: Effect Podcast Network in association with Best Case Studio. For 517 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the I heart 518 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your 519 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: favorite shows.