1 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: Does the name Christian Bruckner ring a bell? Probably not, 2 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: but I believe it will. All of you legal eagles 3 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: who like me, have been on the search for a 4 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: little Maddie McCann for so long? Do we finally have 5 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: answers in the form of a guy now doing jail 6 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: time for the rape of a seventy two year old 7 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: American woman, Christian Bruckner. If you look at the Maddie 8 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: McCann website, you see that the parents ostensibly are still 9 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: searching for Maddie under the belief that she is alive. 10 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: What does Bruckner know? First of all, take a listen 11 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: to our friend and every nine yees A major development 12 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: to night in the search for Madeleine McCann. Police sticking 13 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: up a German property link to the prime suspect. Authorities 14 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: type lip though on what drew them to the site. 15 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: In the garden allotment near the city of Hanover. German 16 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: police begin a secret investigation into one of the world's 17 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: most infamous unsolved crimes. Large screen shield much of their 18 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: operation from public view, but there have been some revealing glimpses. 19 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: An excavator turning over the soil, police holding rakes others 20 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: with snipper dogs and amongst it all, a child slide. 21 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: Location is more than two thousand kilometers from the Portugal 22 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: resort where Madeline McCann disappeared, but it's very close to 23 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: a previous address of a prime suspect in the case, 24 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: German Man Christian Bruckner. The forty three year old is 25 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: a convicted pedophile and it's alleged his mobile phone was 26 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: used near the McCann's resorted Pride deluge on the night 27 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: Maddie vanished. In two thousand and seven, we are still 28 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: on the search for Mattie McCann, but now more answers 29 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: to questions as they relate to a forty four year 30 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: old man, Christian Brickner, with me an all star panel 31 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: to make sense of it all. California Prosecutor Wendy Patrick, 32 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: author of Red Flags and the host of Today with 33 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: Doctor Wendy KCBQ. You can find her at Wendy Patrick 34 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: PhD dot com. Doctor ANGELA. Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us 35 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at 36 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: ANGELA Arnold, MD dot com. Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville 37 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 1: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon 38 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: and also the star of a brand new hit series, 39 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: The Piked and Massacre on iHeartRadio. Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator. 40 00:02:55,160 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: He's been on over ten thousand death scenes. And joining 41 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: me right now a very special guest with a brand 42 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: new book out just this week. It's John Clark, investigative journalist. 43 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: He is the author of My Search for Madeleine. Of 44 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: course he's talking about Maddie McCann, My Search for mad Line. 45 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: John Clark is joining us right now. But first, Justice 46 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: Scott Market Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, just got it's 47 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: really hard for me to believe that even now we 48 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: have still not found Mattie McCann's body, which leads to 49 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: speculation this child is still alive. Yeah, we hold out 50 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: hope that she is Nancy, but this is a long, long, 51 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: long time for her to have survived, and so it 52 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: looks rather bleak. I have to admit, and vast distances 53 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: that we're talking about. She was last seen in Portugal, Nancy. 54 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: And what a wild circuitous route that this alleged perpetrator 55 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: has gone on over these years. And speaking of Portugal, 56 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 1: I cannot ignore the fact that this convicted rapist. Now 57 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: you may think that a rapist in attacks is seventy 58 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: two year old American woman would not be the same 59 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: that attacks a three year old also vacation or little 60 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 1: girl Mattie McCann. But think about it, doctor Angela Arnold. 61 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: In both cases that's a sex attack, an attack of 62 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: a female, an attack of our most vulnerable, a tiny child, 63 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: and an elderly lady, someone that can't fight back under 64 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: similar attack circumstances. They're both at a vacation spot. I mean, 65 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: actually the similarities are quite profound, right, And you know, Nancy, 66 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: a predator is a predator, is a predator. And whether 67 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: this was whether one or the other, was some sort 68 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: of crime of opportunity or whether it was planned by him, 69 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: this man is a predator. He is a sexual predator. 70 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: But let's don't forget in addition to attacking the seventy 71 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: two year old American woman, he is also a pedophile, 72 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: which fits in with the attack on Maddie McCann, the 73 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: kidnap of Mannie McCann. Guys, let's go to the source, 74 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: the oracle, so to speak, joining me, especially against John Clark, 75 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: investigative journalist and the author of a brand new book 76 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: that has just hit the stands. My search for Madeline 77 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: on Amazon, John Clark, I get a bad taste in 78 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: my mouth. I really think about it. It's almost physical 79 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 1: when I say the name Christian Bruckner, and I'm really 80 00:05:55,560 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: really peeved about this cartoon that he drew and just released, 81 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: which is of I guess, since I'm not there in 82 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: Europe to see the people. I guess is of the 83 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: prosecutor leaving the investigation into Mattie's disappearance. It looks like 84 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 1: jurars falling over I guess asleep in the jury box. 85 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: And then behind a partition there is a psychic, a 86 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: fortune teller, and the prosecutors offering the fortune teller money 87 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: for the fortune teller to create more evidence against Christian Brickner. 88 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: So this pedophile that prays on little children, that raped 89 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 1: an elderly American woman is now mocking the justice system. Well, 90 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: he can go to and burn in hell for all 91 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: I care. But what connects him to Mattie. I can 92 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: tell you if there's an enormous amount of evidence against 93 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: Christian Bruckner, and the police have been proving this since 94 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: two thousand and seventeen. In fact, whoa Jackie is it? 95 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: Twenty twenty one? Seventeen eighteen nineteen twenty twenty one, that's 96 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: five years, that's right now. I mean, we know a 97 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: few things for certain. We know that his mobile phone 98 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: number was used in the vicinity of Madeleine's apartments on 99 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: the night she went missing. We know that he lived 100 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: less than a kilometer promote from Pradeluge where she was snatched. 101 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: And we also know that the woman that was raped 102 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: in factor Stamford Graduate, a very wonderful woman actually, who 103 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: was a journalist herself, who was raped, a sevent two 104 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:48,119 Speaker 1: year old woman American woman whose raped lived also within 105 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: a kilometer of where he'd lived for seven years, and 106 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: he had I've traced his crime career nineteen convictions in total, 107 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: including further rapes, sex assaults, child abuse, starting from the 108 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: age of fourteen, and he was living there pretty much 109 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: Scott three for seven years in Portugal. Crime Stories with me, 110 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: it'sy Grace. John Clark is joining me from Spain right now. 111 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: He's just coming by with a brand new book. It's 112 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: really fascinating. My search from Madeline on Amazon. Nineteen convictions 113 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: going back to age fourteen. What in the h double 114 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: L was he doing walking around free that I Maddy 115 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: is kidnapped? Good? I mean, honestly, the mind boggles that 116 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,719 Speaker 1: I can tell you that the German police are not 117 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: just looking into him for prosecution in the Madeline mccan case. 118 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: He's been prone in at least five other cases that 119 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: I've looked into, and at least two or three more 120 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: than involved children. And you know, it's pretty certain that 121 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: he was in twenty seventeen was the man that exposed 122 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: himself to four children. I mean, this is ten years 123 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: after Madeline mccan was back in Portugal at a fiesta 124 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: at two o'clock in the morning, exposing himself to four 125 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: young children in a play park in a place called Messine. Now, okay, 126 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: wait a minute, John Clark. I know that you are 127 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: in the investigative journalists, but I think we need a shrink, 128 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: and we need it right now. Doctor Angie Arnold, Doctor 129 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: Angela Arnold. Doctor what is that thrill an adult gets 130 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: from exposing themselves to a child. Well, it's not just 131 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: any adult. First of all, these people are a pedophile, 132 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: as a person who is sexually attracted to children. And 133 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,599 Speaker 1: I've actually I've actually had to take care of pedophiles 134 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: in my past, and they and they and they have 135 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: explained to me how they think and how they and 136 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: how they pray and wait. Oftentimes they will you try 137 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: to make a relationship with the child. But of course 138 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: this was not the case initially. It sounds like, but unfortunately, Nancy, 139 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: they're very sick individuals. Time has shown that they really 140 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: aren't treatable. You know, I said that a million times 141 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: as a prosecutor in inner city Atlanta. A child molester 142 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: cannot be rehabbed, and statistics show that they get out 143 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: and they do it again and again. And the reality 144 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:50,079 Speaker 1: is Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author read Flags host Today 145 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: with doctor Wendy Casey b K. I can go on 146 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: and on, Wendy, the reality is, every time a child 147 00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: molester is caught, he has molested does sometimes before then dozens. Yeah, 148 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: It's one of those things that you wouldn't know unless 149 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: you were in the system and actually worked with them. 150 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: As doctor Arnold was saying, you know, I used to 151 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: prosecute all the sexually violent predator cases, the ones that 152 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: did actually take the stand in these civil commitment proceedings, 153 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: and admits how many times they had done it in 154 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 1: the past. With cases like this where you have a 155 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: play stop at Wendy play stop it. That's like Jackie 156 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 1: over there telling me she just turned twenty one again. 157 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: She's admitting she turned twenty one. She's turned twenty one? 158 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: What ten times already, jackiey. So when you tell me 159 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: a child molester or admits they molested X number of times, 160 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: b s well, no, not in sexually other predator cases 161 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: because they have to admit it in those cases because 162 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: they're seeking to prove that they've been rehabilitated. So it's 163 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: that honesty. But initially, when you're looking at whether or 164 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: not somebody has it's ever been the first time that 165 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: they fanned television, you have to assume that it isn't. 166 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: And that's why we look at patterns make the predator. 167 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: If somebody gets caught once, we worry how many times 168 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: they have done it before. And when you have something 169 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: like indecent exposure, there has to be this element of 170 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: wanting to achieve sexual arousal. It can't be an accident. 171 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: Is most adults would be qualified to have other people 172 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: catching them with their pants down. It has to have 173 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: that requisite amount of intent that's important when you're looking 174 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: at somebody that has also been accused of sexual predator. 175 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: Back to you, John Clark, investigative journalist and author of 176 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: My Search from Madeline That is just yet Amazon. Let's 177 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: follow up on what Wendy Patrick, Joe Scott and doctor 178 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,959 Speaker 1: Angie If just said. The pattern makes a predator. That's 179 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: what Wendy said. And I can't help but notice, John Clark, 180 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: that wherever Christian Bruckner goes, children get missing. Yeah, well, 181 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: this is absolutely fascinating, and I'd like to just add 182 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: to the point that we're just made that at the 183 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: first time he was convicted, it was for a nine 184 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: year old and a six year old child, and he's 185 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: going back to the age of fourteen and I believe 186 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: possibly thirteen, and on both occasions a child was grabbed 187 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: and snatched while he aroused himself, and they've only released 188 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: a child when the child scream made so much noise 189 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: that he had to let the child go. Now, if 190 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: you go forward ten years, he's caught again in Germany 191 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: grabbing a child and taking pictures holding that child with 192 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: his penis in his hand, and basically those explicit pictures 193 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: were used to prosecute him and to give him a 194 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: prison sentence in Germany, from which of course he fled 195 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: and had to be extradited. Now you go back to 196 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: Madeline McCann. In two thousand and seven, just three weeks 197 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: before Madeline McCann went missing on a beach right next 198 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: to Pradeluge, we're talking about a five kilometer drive, there 199 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: was another girl who was grabbed by German guy blue 200 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: eyes who spoken a bit anitie in English and then 201 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: in German, who basically masturbated by her on the beach. 202 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 1: And when she screamed and her brother came over and 203 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: the parents came to set safer, this guy ran away 204 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 1: up the hill and they got a very very good 205 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: look at him this broad day. He was naked. He 206 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: ran off back to his van the other side of 207 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: trace where he ran to and the parents two days 208 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: later went to report this guy and what happened to 209 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: their poor daughter, who was ten years old. And I 210 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: can tell you now that the following day that case 211 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: was shelved by the local police. They didn't feel there's 212 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: any need to even go out to look at the 213 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: place it happened, or indeed the track that he'd visited. Now, 214 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that the Maccans themselves and the parents 215 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: are horrified, and they will be horrified to read this 216 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: in my book. I'm sure they're aware of some of this. 217 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: But this girl three weeks before Maddie went missing, could 218 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: have been I mean, that was a great opportunity to 219 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: catch this guy. And he lived very close by. He 220 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: was described as six foot tall, which she was exactly 221 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: six foot tall, blonde hair, he had blonde hair, blue eyes. 222 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: He had blue eyes. He had four teeth they said 223 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: that were wonky. He had four teeth that were wonky. Now, 224 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: that to me is a guy that's done it for 225 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: years and years and got away with it and got 226 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: boulder and boulder and boulder, and has eventually just thought, 227 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to snatch a girl from an apartments, easy peasy, 228 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: grab her and take her away. And I think that's 229 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: what the German police are assuming. And as you say, Nancy, 230 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: it's happened. There'd been a few cases, as you know 231 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: in the German Maddie as they called her, vanished into 232 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: thin air just around the time that Brookner happened to 233 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: be part twenty miles away happened to be in a 234 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: car accident. They know he was there the day before, 235 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: in the same area that she went missing. They know 236 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: he drove a blue van. A blue van was seen 237 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: driving away from the scene. The girl was never seen again. 238 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: One more case, Joanna, seven miles from Pradeluge where Maddie 239 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: went missing two years earlier, is never seen again. No 240 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: idea what happened to her. But I was living there 241 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: at the time, seven miles away. So you're right to 242 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: ask those questions, and those are the questions the police 243 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: are looking at. How old was how old was Joanne? 244 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: Joanna was eight? And how old is Inger? Inger was eight? 245 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: And then you've got Mannie three. How far away was 246 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: Inger's incident from Plue. It's in Germany, So Inger is 247 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: in Germany, so near to where he'd been living at 248 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: the time in Hanover, And they the Joanna case is 249 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: about seven miles in land from prad Deluge, so very 250 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: very close. And as you may or may not know, 251 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: the police that were involved in the investigation, the detectives 252 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: from the PJ importin now Aaao who's written a book 253 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: about this case, was found was basically accused and then 254 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,479 Speaker 1: later convicted of covering up in the case of Joanna 255 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: and four members of his own force went to prison. 256 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: He got an eighteen month prison sentence for covering up 257 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: a beating a thought of into a confession of this woman. 258 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: Now his deputy, a guy called Christopher Pereira, he has 259 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: just gone to prison for seven years for corruption, for 260 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 1: basically running a gang that robbed, kidnapped of wealthy people 261 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: around Lisbon and broke into homes. Now this guy left 262 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,959 Speaker 1: the PJ department in Portimau, went to work, and this 263 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: is where it gets incredible. Became the head of the 264 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: missing Children's bureau in Portugal for one entire year where 265 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: I could find nothing. He didn't that tie yet. Then 266 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: he went to become president of Sporting Lisbon, which was 267 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: a football team twice convicted of fraud. Well there now 268 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: in prison for seven years for running a crime gang. 269 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: Now these that's the head of the operation investigator and 270 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: his deputy. What does that say about this police department, Well, 271 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: well it says to me at this precise moment is 272 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: that nothing was done to apprehend Christian Brutner during the 273 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: time that they were in charge. They were too busy 274 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: in their own misdeeds. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. We're 275 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: talking about the very latest in the search for this 276 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: beautiful little girl, Mattie McCann, with a shocking development that 277 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: has occurred. Take a listen to our cut sixteen been 278 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: Avery at nine News. Please have confirmed that this search 279 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: is linked to the disappearance of Madeline McCann, But what 280 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: they won't say is what information has brought them here 281 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: and exactly what it is they're looking for. German prosecutors 282 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: have repeatedly said they believe Madeline's dead and that Brutner 283 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: is their man. The suspect is being held in a 284 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 1: prison for unrelated crimes around two hundred kilometers from the 285 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: search site. In recently applied for early release in the 286 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: past twenty four hours that bead was withdrawn. We're talking 287 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: about a search that was done that has yielded very, 288 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: very disturbing evidence. Take a listen to our cut seventeen 289 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: Martin and brunt Sky News. On the third day of digging, 290 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: police were said to have uncovered a hidden cellar they 291 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: hoped it would provide the crucial evidence they need. Sniffer 292 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: dogs joined the search in the garden of a secluded 293 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: holiday chalet where the suspect once lived. Police were hunting 294 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: for clues to the disappearance of Madeline McCann. Officers sifted 295 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: piles of soil dug from a whole fifteen meters wide. 296 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: They also used ground penetrating radar and later brought in 297 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: a drone. Three skips were removed, not all of them full. 298 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: Straight back out to John Clark, investigative journalist and author 299 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: of a brand new bo My search from Madeline. John 300 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: tell me about the search. Well, actually, it's great to 301 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: hear Martin Brunt actually, who's the very very well known 302 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: crime correspondent at Sky News, been there for twenty years, 303 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 1: and actually I've wrote to a lot during the course 304 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: of my book, and he, like I, have covered this 305 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: case for many years. And he has also, I believe, 306 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 1: been to the famous box factory New Readers Gleban in Germany, 307 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: where they found all Christian Bruckner's memory sticks. In USB 308 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: sticks are buried in a little supermarket bag underneath the 309 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: dead body of a dog that, according to detectives, had 310 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: been buried underground with its head out the ground. Now, 311 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: I can't verify that, but that's been reported, and that 312 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: to me sounds like a fairly sick individual. Now when 313 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: the police found that stash of evidence, they tell me 314 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: was up to twin two thousand videos and photos, including 315 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: over one hundreds of Christian Bruckner himself in them. Now, 316 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: a lot of these we assume must be rape cases, 317 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: potentially child abuse. Now, I spoke to another Germans in 318 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: Germany yesterday who said she'd seen a couple of these 319 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: videos and they were pretty sick and pretty horrendous and 320 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: saw Christian in them. Now police have been digging, as 321 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 1: you know, in allotments around Germany. They've done it twice 322 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: to my knowledge now, and that they're looking for further 323 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: evidence like this to try and pin down how many 324 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: cases this man could have been involved in. How many 325 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: horrendous rapes and cases has this guy been involved in? 326 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: And that's really what I think they'll be doing and 327 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: take this from me, in the next few weeks, they 328 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: will be continuing searches in Portugal and a few more 329 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 1: in Germany to establish other potential burial sites of Christian 330 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: Brutner's jo When you say they are searching in other allotments, 331 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: what do you mean by allotment? Oh, yeah, well that's 332 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: something we have in England allotments. They also have it 333 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: in Germany where people will have a like a country 334 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: house almost in a small space, a little bit of garden, 335 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:15,880 Speaker 1: and they might grow potatoes and vegetables, runner beans and tomatoes. 336 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: And he loved these little allotment plots where he could 337 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: go at the weekend and take young girls. And allegedly 338 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: he dug a cellar at spot. Of these is that 339 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 1: you've already reported on, and I think that the other 340 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 1: one he also reported also allegedly dug a cellar. Now 341 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: the woman who owns that, so being Salag, has said 342 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: a number of times, please come and dig up my 343 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: house see what you can find, because she's worried that 344 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: she might be sleeping above something round the sinister. So 345 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: an allotment is either a country house or it is 346 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: a patch of land on which you can plant. Yeah, 347 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of how to describe it. It's quite a 348 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: sort of socialist system that we have around Europe. I know, 349 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: you guys in America, I think that's a dirty word, 350 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 1: but you know it's. The idea is that you get 351 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: a patch of land of town hall or council leases 352 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: out to people, and it could be as small as 353 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: a sort of you know, it's a kind of the 354 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: course of a football pitch or something. A small plot 355 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: even smaller than that, and they have a little shacks 356 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: on them, like little kind of cottages. They're not country houses, 357 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 1: they're more like cottages or huts. And some of them 358 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: you can sleep in. Some of them you just keep 359 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: your tools, you know, for gardening. But in Germany they 360 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: love it, and you'll see them all over Germany. Every 361 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 1: town has a series of allotments just on the outskirts 362 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: of the city. You rent them very cheaply. They're subsidized 363 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 1: and you can sort of go there and you can 364 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: take things with it the weekend and pretty much kind 365 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: of hide out like at the weekend. And these little 366 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: plots amazing that instead of planting fruits or vegetables on 367 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: his plot, he digs a seller. I'm very curious about 368 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: the USB drives you're telling me between seven and eight 369 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: were found on one of these alightments underneath the body 370 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: of a dead dog, partially buried in a supermarket plastic bag. 371 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: Do you believe John Clark that? At first I thought no, 372 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: but now I'm thinking possibly yes, that Maddie McCann is 373 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: pictured on any of these USB devices. And when we 374 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: say USB. We're talking like a memory stick, is what 375 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: I'm imagining. It's going to be the reason I first 376 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 1: said no is in my thinking and Panels jump in. 377 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: If they have Mattie McCann being raped or mistreated on 378 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: a USB stick trace back to him and she's missing, 379 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 1: then there's evidence in motive for murder. And so if 380 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: they had that, why wouldn't they go ahead and formally 381 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: charge him with her murder. On the other hand, right 382 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: after they find the sevent a USB drives, they do 383 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: state Maddie McCann is dead, and that is very, very 384 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: probitive in my mind. But about that, John Clark, do 385 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: you think Maddie's on one of these drives? I think again. 386 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: I've asked the prosecutorout a number of times and understandably 387 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 1: he won't be drawn on it. And I think it 388 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: for a number of reasons. One that maybe it's something 389 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 1: that's such circumstantial. Maybe you can see something of her 390 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: on one of these pictures, but you don't know it's 391 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: linked to Christian. Potentially there's a video that he may 392 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: may or may not be in. Maybe there's some background 393 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: or some evidence of her clothing. And one of them 394 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: also Let's not forget that they found a series of 395 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: swimming costumes and clothes at this box factory. This is 396 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: not an allotment, by the way, the box factory in 397 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: Nubi's Club, and this is an enormous two hector plot. 398 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: It's a Second World War box factory that made boxes 399 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: are all sorts of different things. And in this huge 400 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: place where he allegedly wanted to keep cars and wanted 401 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 1: to have some sort of sculpture garden he kept and 402 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: probably I believe, and I went round it, and if 403 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: you look at the photographs that are in my book, 404 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: I believe he took people there to mistreat and I 405 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 1: think horrible things happened that I find it very sinister. 406 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: Actually going around it, it it was quite scary. So Jean 407 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: Clark he owned the old box factory. He had bought 408 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 1: it for thirty six thousand euros. I think that's about 409 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: forty thousand dollars. And people have often questioned where he 410 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: got the money to buy it. And I've also questioned 411 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: where he got the money to buy a thirty thousand 412 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: or twenty five thousand When you baygo a Tiffin Allegro, 413 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: so you know there's a lot of questions about you know, 414 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,880 Speaker 1: if both those were found at the box factory. And 415 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: you know, you have his best friend who I spoke to, 416 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: Michael Tatchell, who he was in prison with for eight 417 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: months in Portugal, told me, I'm sure he took Maddie. 418 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure he snap and sold her. That's what he 419 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 1: told me. And you know, I published that and it's 420 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 1: been in plenty of newspapers around the world, and I 421 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 1: see no reason for him to lie. You know, he's 422 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: a pretty okay guy, this Michael Tatchully's pretty pretty decent actually, 423 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: and I think he's made of his ways. And I'm 424 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: many other friends of Brookner to say the same. They're 425 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: convinced that he stats her and did it sold her. Nancy, 426 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: I got to jump in and dove telling him with 427 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: what John was just saying relative to his source of 428 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: moneis uh. You know, I know that we're talking about 429 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: Maddie here, but I have to say she's not going 430 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: to be the only child on these data sticks. Firm 431 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: I firmly believe that this fellow is part of a 432 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: network more than likely, and this data is sold, is traded. 433 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: I think that that could potentially be a source of revenue. 434 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: And there's also been a mention that he's been involved 435 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 1: with and from Eastern Europe, which are very easily victimized, 436 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: that can be just vanished off of the face of 437 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: the planet, and no one knows where they originated from, 438 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: no one knows what happened to them. And there's a 439 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: whole underground network of these people that deal in human 440 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: flesh like this, and that's what is really ominous about this. 441 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 1: I think that that Maddie may very well just be 442 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: the tip of the iceberg in this case. Crime Stories 443 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, John Clarton joining me, author of my 444 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: Search for Madeline. John, you're telling me then that the 445 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: USB drives are found not buried at an allotment, but 446 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: at the old box factory that he Britner owns. No, 447 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: I mean they were all found at this box factory, 448 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: at least the ones that the police announced they were 449 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: all found there. That it may they were looking for 450 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: more USB and memory sticks when they dug up another 451 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: allotment to different allotments. So I understand one thing that 452 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: just confirming what your other guests just said then, is 453 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: that he's absolutely right. I think there's a lot of 454 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: trading of Eastern European girls. He did travel a lot 455 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: into Eastern Europe. He had a lot of Eastern European girlfriends. 456 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: We know from various people. He spent a lot of 457 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: time in the dark nets and darkweb, which is a 458 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: very sinister area to buy and sell goods for drug dealers, 459 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: but also for child pornographers. It's a very, very lucrative industry. 460 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: I just find that really difficult to believe. Wendy Patrick, 461 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: California prosecutor and author Wendy that we can't find any 462 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: firm connection between he Christian Bruckner, and the slaver, so 463 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: to speak, the modern day slaver to whom he would 464 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: sell these young girls children anyone. I mean by now, 465 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: I would think there would be a connection via cell phone, 466 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: via po box, via email, something connecting him to make 467 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,239 Speaker 1: the drop or the exchange child for money. There probably is, 468 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: But those investigations, as you know, are marathons, not sprints. 469 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: They probably do have connections, but maybe there's an argument 470 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: that they're unclear, they're inconclusive, they need corroboration, they want 471 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: to rule out alternate explanations. So it may be that 472 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: this is a development of all those connections behind the 473 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: scenes in order to present that airtight case at the 474 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: end that maybe they already believe they have but aren't 475 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: able to shore up as well as they can, especially 476 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: now that we're learning that maybe this man has been 477 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: using those allotments not to plant but to hide evidence 478 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: what else might be there, which would of course account 479 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: for these digs that are now occurring with more frequency. 480 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: I want a circle back for those just joining us, 481 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: we're talking about a development in a search for a 482 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: beautiful young three year old girl, Manny mckeann, who was 483 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: kidnapped while on vacation with her family. Back to you, 484 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: John Clark, it described for those just joining us when 485 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: Maddy's parents first realized she was gone. Well, that's right. 486 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: It was in two thousand and seven, on the fifth 487 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: of May and night and bitter May, at about nine 488 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: thirty or quarter past nine, when they've been looking after 489 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: their kids every half and hour, checking in on the 490 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: kids at the eight dinner in the restaurant just outside 491 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: their apartments. And wait, wait, wait right there. I was 492 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: told the restaurant was about a football fuel linked the way. 493 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: I think it's about less than a hundred meters. It's 494 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: within eyesight of most of the parents' apartments pretty close 495 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: atually within the complex. But once you've visited it, you 496 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: realized that this complex wasn't very secure. There was no 497 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: CCTV that were opening the very easily for anyone to 498 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: go in. And I think crucially it's now been that 499 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: it's now been established that somebody had written in the 500 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: diary in the book the the the reservations book for 501 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: the restaurant, that at the top of the page the 502 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: parent the families, and there there were seven adults. I 503 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: think there's three families or four families. They were all 504 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: going to eat in the restaurant together while their children 505 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: slept in their apartments, and that was written very clearly 506 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: in the reservations book. And I think, yeah, the children 507 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: was sleeping while they ate, and I think somebody saw 508 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: that and either told somebody this is these children are 509 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: there or there are not in their apartments tipped them off. 510 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: Now everybody said that Christian Brooklyn was a fantastic burglar, 511 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: robber climber. Now could he have been tipped off to 512 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: potentially go into his apartments and rob them and maybe 513 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: while he was there he had an opportunity arose, or 514 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: maybe the one that was his immediate goal. So when 515 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: one of the parents, who were I understand taking turns 516 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: going back to check on the children, go back, they 517 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: find out that Maddie is missing. Now you're telling me 518 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: that at the time Maddie goes missing, Christian Bruckner lived 519 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: just a few miles away from the resort. Half a 520 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: mile half a mile. Wow, that's even closer than I thought, 521 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: only a half a mile away. Had he ever been 522 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: sighted at the resort? Had he ever been spotted there? 523 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: John Clark, he was a regular in the resort. He 524 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: was a regular. He used to be seen regularly in 525 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: pubs and bars. He had girlfriends in the resorts. He 526 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: won stage. He beat the living daylights out one girlfriend 527 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: in front of plenty of witnesses in the bar. He 528 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: then went back to her apartment and he'd under the 529 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: bed to see if she would bring a boyfriend back. 530 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: I think that's the supposition, and the girlfriend that told 531 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: I think the Daily Mirror that had she come back 532 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: with a boyfriend that night, she believes that he would 533 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: have attacked the boyfriend and her very badly. As it was, 534 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: she came into the apartment, found the apartments felt a 535 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: bit strange, didn't really understand if something had changed. The 536 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: blue steep was up. She wondered what was going on, 537 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: and then she just looked under the bed and there 538 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,839 Speaker 1: he was. I mean, can you imagine it's the start 539 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: of horror films, isn't it? You know? And I'm also 540 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: wondering why if there are nearly twenty thousand images on 541 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: these usb Dry said of in choice back to Christian Brutner, 542 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: where are all those victims? Are those cases being prosecuted? 543 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: Not just mad? It's what about that John Clark? You 544 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: need like I have to go to the Halle police department. 545 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: There's sixteen different federal regions in Germany. It's like America 546 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: with all the different regions and different states, and you 547 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: have to go to Halla police and ask the question 548 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: because I got to learn no comments from them, you know, 549 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: I think I filed ten questions, I got three back 550 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: seven and no comments. And you know who are in 551 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: all these other videos? Do they know these kids? Are 552 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: they know who these people are? Of these You're absolutely right. 553 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,919 Speaker 1: I believe they are investigating an enormous amount of maybe 554 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 1: the bringing back up. Obviously they're not getting anywhere on 555 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 1: their investigation. How did Christian Bruckner get on end up 556 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: our police radar to start with John, can they bring 557 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 1: in Jodie Foster? Do you think can she come in? 558 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: And a bit of investigation I wish. So how did 559 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,959 Speaker 1: they get on to Bruckner? Why did they first read 560 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 1: flag him? Well, again in my book, if you read 561 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,879 Speaker 1: the interview with Bolter's the prosecutor, he said it comes 562 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: from what he describes as good, solid German policing. And 563 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: he said that the English had really didn't know and 564 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: the Portuguese didn't know. But of course they managed to 565 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,919 Speaker 1: get the list of all the phone numbers that were 566 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: linking in to the transmitter that covers the Ocean Club 567 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: where Maddie went missing that night, And in the exact words, 568 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: by amazing fortune, Portuguese police had kept all the phone 569 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: numbers that were linked to the transmitter that was right 570 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: outside the Ocean Club, so they knew that on the 571 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,280 Speaker 1: night Madu went missing, there were let's say a thousand 572 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: phone calls between seven and let's say ten that night. Now, 573 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: those lists that Portuguese police had luckily kept, they hadn't 574 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,760 Speaker 1: been destroyed. So in two thousand and seventeen, when German 575 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: police got a tip off that Christian Bruckner might have 576 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,240 Speaker 1: been involved in the Madeline mccan case, and they decided 577 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: to look into more detail. They discovered on that list 578 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: a phone number of Christian Brutner's, a number that he 579 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: used regularly, so they knew that he'd been outside the 580 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,439 Speaker 1: Ocean Club at exactly seven thirty I think at seven 581 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: thirty two on the night that Maddie went missing. Had 582 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: a half an hour phone call. So a long phone call, 583 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: isn't it half an hour with somebody who has never 584 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: come forward, who had never been able to discount from 585 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:59,439 Speaker 1: the inquiry that night outside the Ocean Club, and that 586 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: I think that where the police really started thinking this 587 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: guy is very interesting. And Maddie was found missing around 588 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 1: nine fifteen, about an hour after the phone call. Yeah, 589 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: they're about hour and a half half the phone call, 590 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: so he was in the area. And of course the 591 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: same night, two blonde men were seen outside the apartment. 592 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 1: They've never been discounted. Two blonde men were standing on 593 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,919 Speaker 1: an apartment right next to her apartments. They've never found them. 594 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 1: They've also seen a guy that was watching the apartment 595 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: by two witnesses who saw a guy, old looking guy 596 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: like scuffy hair. About the fact that Christian Bruckner apparently 597 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 1: got drunk and confessed to someone he knew what happened 598 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: to Mannie McKinnon again allegedly various times allegedly happened at 599 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: a festival in Spain in two thousand and eight, he 600 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: admitted it and again allegedly on the tenth Anniverse and 601 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,359 Speaker 1: tenth anniversary he was in a bar with a friend 602 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 1: of his, so he knew in Portugal very well allegedly 603 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: told him as well that he knew what happened and came. 604 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 1: Now again that confession we don't know about. We've never 605 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: heard exactly what he said, but we do know, and 606 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: I believe there's three or four very key people here 607 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,840 Speaker 1: that are keeping quiet, aren't saying anything, are really very 608 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: critical in this inquiry. Guys taken listen to our friends 609 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,360 Speaker 1: at Inside Edition. Do you still have the same suspect 610 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 1: you had three months ago? Yes, we have only one suspect, 611 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: only Christianity. How much information have you been sent? We've 612 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,359 Speaker 1: got hundreds of hints. Of course there are some hints 613 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,919 Speaker 1: which are only rubbish, but there are some hints we 614 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: are hopeful that can make our investigation and more successful. 615 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: Three months ago, you said you needed good evidence, forensic evidence. 616 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 1: Have you found that yet? We have no forensic evidence, 617 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: but it's not necessary to have forensic evidence to charge 618 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: our suspect, but we need it somewhat evidence, maybe a witness, 619 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: maybe a photo or video. I asked the prosecutor what 620 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:13,399 Speaker 1: evidence he has that makes him certain that Madeline is dead. 621 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: He won't say, but he is aware of rumors. Someone 622 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: told me that we have found the clothes of maybe yes, 623 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: the pajamas. Yeah, but it's not true. If we found 624 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: something like that, it would be great for our investigation. 625 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 1: So let me ask you, guys you're hearing CBS. Is 626 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: Peter Vincent questioning the prosecutor Hans Christian Walters about the 627 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 1: investigation of Bruckner too, John Clark, where do you believe 628 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 1: the evidence is that they've got against Bruckner thus far? 629 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: And why aren't they acting on it? I think, as 630 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 1: I explained, that they are what we would say, getting 631 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: your ducks in the line. They have not just this 632 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: one case. They are duty bound to investigate other children 633 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 1: in other rate cases, and I believe they are biding 634 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,760 Speaker 1: their time to charge him and question him. I believe 635 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,919 Speaker 1: that They have so much good circumstantial evidence, as he says, 636 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,239 Speaker 1: we don't need forensic evidence, because if they have enough 637 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 1: good witnesses or people he's s admitted it to, or 638 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: even if he admits it himself, maybe they have a 639 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: tape confession from him that he might have said to someone. 640 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: We don't know exactly, but they have enough evidence, and 641 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: I believe, and I now understand. I thought it was 642 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: going to be this autumn, but I now believe it's 643 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,360 Speaker 1: going to be in the spring. They will first question him. 644 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: We wait as justice and falls. Joining me Wendy Patrick, 645 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: doctor Angel Arnold, Joseph Scott Morgan, an investigative journalists, author 646 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 1: of a new book, My Search for Madeline on Amazon Now. 647 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: John Clark, Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off goodbye friend,