1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Right out of Full Metal Jackie. I mean screaming, let's 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: go your motherfuckers. I mean just picture the meanest drill 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: instructor going. It was him, and you were intimidated from 4 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: the minute you walked in there, and his biggest saying 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: he said it almost every day. My platoon is high 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: and tight. We are known as high and tight. And 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: you will not make me look any otherwise. And I'm like, well, fuck, 8 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: what is this guy gonna do to us? 9 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 2: Man from iHeartRadio in Doghouse Pictures, this is shock incarceration. 10 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 2: I'm Jeff Keating. 11 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: So when you walk into the dorm, it's a rectangular room. 12 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 1: It's probably thirty feet wide by eighty feet long, and 13 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: it's set up as an h but you can't go 14 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: through the middle. That's what's known as the danger zone. 15 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: Here's drill instructor Clark describing the morning routine before PT began. 16 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 3: So the officers on a podium overlooking four squads of cubicles. 17 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 4: Them has his own cube. He has to maintain that 18 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 4: cube and keep it perfect. 19 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 3: He has only two things, and it is locker in 20 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 3: his brack that has to be made just like military 21 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 3: hospital corners. The sheets tight the blanket polled tight. Bill 22 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 3: has got to be a tuck a certain way. The 23 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 3: shoes has to be lined up underneath his rack in 24 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 3: a certain order, from largest the smallest tolls in the 25 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 3: perfect line. And they have to be clean. And then 26 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 3: everything in the locker has a specific thing. You're not 27 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 3: allowed a lot of property, only what we give them, 28 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 3: and it's not a lot. Soap tray has to be centered. 29 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 3: Then your toothpaste off to the side. It's got to 30 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 3: be clean. The soap tray's got to be dry. There 31 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 3: can't be any hair on the so everything was inspectable. 32 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 3: Their underwear had to be five inch square. Over here, 33 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 3: their clothes all had to be hung up as worn. 34 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 3: All the buttons buttoned facing the same direction, hangers off 35 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 3: facing and two fingerspaced had to be perfect displayed. And 36 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 3: guess what they had to do that in that three 37 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 3: minutes they had in the morning to get ready to 38 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 3: go out to the PT. 39 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 2: Mark compared Shock Incarceration to the film Groundhog Day, where 40 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 2: everything was repeated over and over again, and most of 41 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 2: it was tough physical training. 42 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: Joel instructor Egilson stood in the danger zone, which is 43 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: the center of the dorm and just started right into it. 44 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 1: He said, we're gonna start off with one hundred jumping jack. 45 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: So we do one hundred jump and everything one two 46 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: three one one two three two, and we're all screaming 47 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: stop after about forty them, stop stop stop. So yes, sir, 48 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: I don't hear you. Let's start all over, about two 49 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: hundred of those and scissor kicks, just back and forth, 50 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 1: back and forth to where your stomach is just in cramps. 51 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: There was no stopping. We didn't have brakes. He would 52 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: have us roll our mattresses and we put it on 53 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: our back and he'd say, all right, let's go outside 54 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: and run, and we would just run around the prison, 55 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: laps around the prison. 56 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 2: Here's former shot in mate Ed Revere. 57 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 4: How weak is exactly like it? Says? 58 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 5: It was at least ten hours every day at pet. 59 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 5: Every morning we did fifty jumping jacks. After fifty jumping jacks, 60 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 5: you have to make your bed, put on all your 61 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 5: pt gear. You also have to shave and piss and 62 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 5: be on a tar mat. Really in eight minutes. So 63 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 5: at the beginning, nobody could do it. No one could 64 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 5: put their shoes on. I mean it was impossible, but 65 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 5: they made you do it. You had to eat standing 66 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 5: up because you weren't good enough to sit down with 67 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 5: the other inmates, because you haven't improving yourself. 68 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 4: And this was day after day. 69 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 5: You were not allowed to sit down from time you 70 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 5: woke up until the time you went to sleep. 71 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: Drill instructors had all types of creative exercises to take 72 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 2: inmates to the point of total exhaustion. One was to 73 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 2: jump on and off their bed frames, or as they 74 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 2: called them, racks. 75 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: So when I tell you to jump up, jump on 76 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: your rack, jump, jump down, jump, I mean doing it 77 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: until you're throwing up. I mean literally people were throwing up. 78 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: It was brutal. 79 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 4: Get the beginning. You'd come through. You're hired as hell 80 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 4: on them. 81 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 5: From there, they would bring us behind the gym because 82 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 5: we were not good enough to go to the PT 83 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 5: deck because those are where people already went through hell 84 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 5: week till you know you're doing regular PT work, leglifts, 85 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 5: rolling over, face down in the mud, get up, jog, 86 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 5: go back. Then like fifteen minutes, roll up your mattress, 87 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 5: run back down to the gym, come back. This was 88 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 5: day after day. 89 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: We lost three people in the first two weeks. Three 90 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: people because they just physically couldn't do it. They said, 91 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: screw this, I'd rather go to prison, sit there and relax, 92 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: have three meals, laying a cod all day, and do 93 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: what I want. 94 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 3: When you got him at that point, you know when 95 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:24,799 Speaker 3: you're ready to break. 96 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: There was one point where I don't think I could 97 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: have gotten through it. And I really mean that, and 98 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: I actually I started crying. I started crying. I was 99 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: on the floor and I just couldn't move. I couldn't move, 100 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: and these other guys are still jumping up and down, 101 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: up and down, and I couldn't do it. I felt dizzy. 102 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: I mean, it was mental torture. 103 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 2: Down and almost out. Mark was ready to quit. He 104 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 2: had nothing left to give and didn't think he could 105 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: go on. Then he heard a voice from behind him. 106 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: There was a person behind me that helped me overcome this, 107 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: and I will never forget this person as long as 108 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: I live. His name was La Bird. I remember specifically 109 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: La Bird saying, Lombardo, come on, Lombaro, keep going, keep going. 110 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: I have to give him credit because I was like, 111 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: you know what he wants me to get through this. 112 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: I got to get through this. 113 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 2: With inspiration from the bird and a strong desire to 114 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 2: get home in six months so he could see family 115 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 2: and friends again. Mark picked himself off the ground, continuing 116 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 2: on in the program and dealing with whatever the drill 117 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 2: instructors threw at him. This proved particularly difficult when they 118 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: often had tricks up their sleeves. 119 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 3: I'd ride these guys and ride these guys until they 120 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 3: were ready to blow, and they start almost fighting with 121 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 3: each other. I'd come in the morning and I'd throw 122 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 3: cigarette butts inside the shower just to get him. 123 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 4: At the point. 124 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 3: And then I'd come in and say, oh, cigarettes in 125 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 3: the shower, And then it was just relentless day, and 126 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 3: I just keep referring to the cigarette. But then at 127 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 3: the end of the day, I put them down in 128 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 3: their cubes and we played the song the Man in 129 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 3: the Mirror, and they can take out their mirror and 130 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 3: you see grown men just start crying their eyeballs out, 131 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 3: and you to tell them, you set them up and 132 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 3: tell them the real problem is the guy in the marror. 133 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: That's who needs to be fixed, not me, not the 134 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: guy to your left or right. You're going. 135 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 4: That's got to focus on your own behaviors and that. 136 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 3: But sometimes you need a catalyst to get them there 137 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 3: in that cigarette, but in the shower would be it. 138 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 4: So everything we did was in their best interest. 139 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: It was the last day of Hell week and we 140 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: were out on a jog. We were basically ran into 141 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: the ground for two weeks, and we finished up our 142 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: last job and we were coming back into the dorm 143 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: and we again, as you always do, you stand that 144 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: attention at the end of the IRAQ and drill Instructor 145 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: Egleston said, all right, look under your pillows, and we 146 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: lift up our pillow and there was our green hat. 147 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: And it was a cool feel, like I'm getting chills 148 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: even thinking about it, and I know that sounds so minimal, 149 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: but you're like, cool, I'm one step closer to getting 150 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: out of this fucking place, and now I'm a green hat. 151 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: I'm not a brown hat anymore. 152 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 2: Drill Instructor Stack shared his mentality as the inmates finished 153 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 2: the two hell weeks and finally got their green hats, 154 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 2: the first step towards completing the shock incarceration program. 155 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 4: I love doing that because I love to see these guys. 156 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 6: Hated me, absolutely hate me during that first two weeks, 157 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 6: and then to see him so happy, you know, because 158 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 6: they did achieve a lot. 159 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: I mean, we get put through a lot in those first. 160 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 2: Two weeks, and ed Revere learned there were new challenges 161 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 2: with getting a green hat. 162 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 5: You moved to a green hat, and literally at this point, 163 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 5: no one had a problem with getting out of a 164 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,959 Speaker 5: tarmat in eight minutes. Now we've learned how to clean. 165 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 5: I'm kind of reflecting from where I am at this 166 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 5: point of my life looking back. All of these lessons 167 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 5: had great means that I'm applying today to my life. 168 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 5: So now you worked really hard to get this one 169 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 5: little goal, and now there's another goal, and you're a 170 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 5: green hat. So you're in the middle. You're not at 171 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 5: the advance and you're not at the bottom. But there's 172 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 5: more challenges alsome. You're also there's a lot more tension 173 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,719 Speaker 5: in your platoon because now you're kind of on top 174 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 5: of each other. 175 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 4: You've been with these same people. 176 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 5: There's some people that are not pulling their own weight 177 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 5: that's dragging down the whole platoon. There's tension and you 178 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 5: can feel it amongst each other. 179 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,719 Speaker 1: It was a moment, you know, if you were high 180 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 1: fiving people. It was kind of cool, but it was 181 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: short lived. It was okay, all right, all right, you 182 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: got your hat. Now you shut the fuck up, you 183 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: know what I mean, Get ready for bed, and let's 184 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: go to sleep. Tomorrow's another night. 185 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 2: Things started to snowball in their marriage after Liz discovered 186 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 2: what Mark had been hiding. 187 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 7: I don't specifically remember the first time I found out, 188 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 7: but we just started getting inundated with phone calls, and 189 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 7: every time Mark went to the mailbox, he would literally 190 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 7: just rip up the stuff and he would just be angry. 191 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 7: So that's when I think I maybe pressed him and 192 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 7: said what's going on? 193 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 4: And then he had told me that that's what he 194 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 4: had done. 195 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 8: And she didn't have the trust in me, I went 196 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 8: behind her back? How would you do that? How would 197 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 8: you not tell me about it? And then also ultimately 198 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 8: the trust for my brother, right, I mean, he wasn't 199 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 8: being honest with me. You know, he did not inform 200 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 8: me of any of these letters that he was evidently receiving. 201 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 8: I would have to imagine there was multiple attempts before 202 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 8: I got the letter, you know, at my current condo 203 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 8: in New York address. 204 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: So I called him up and immediately, oh, yeah, you know, 205 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: it's a tough time right now, I know I haven't 206 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: paid for a couple of whatever the excuse was. But 207 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: I'll get back on track. If I have to set 208 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: up a payment plan, I will, okay. And that was it. 209 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: I just let it go. I just let it go. 210 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: Say all right, he'll take care of it. 211 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 9: But he's got a house, he's got a wife, and 212 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 9: with a house, this goes wrong, that goes wrong. And 213 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 9: I would say to Dave, I got my bills too. 214 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 9: You tell me, mom, try my best and try my best. 215 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 9: I said, is that what you tell the telephone company, 216 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 9: the gas and electric company? Do you tell them you're 217 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 9: trying your best and you'll pay them when you can. 218 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,839 Speaker 9: I don't think so, I said, So I'm like one 219 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 9: of your credits. 220 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 4: You know. 221 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 9: That mom goes along with your bills. I said, but 222 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 9: it's because it's mom. It's okay. That's how you feel. 223 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: Honestly, never would have thought he would have done anything 224 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: like that. I guess everybody. You can't judge them, all right, Well. 225 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 9: The big deal never came in, So that set off 226 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 9: for very uncomfortable feelings, very bad feelings. And my husband 227 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 9: and Dave would they'd have talks back and forth, back 228 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:36,119 Speaker 9: and forth to where my husband set up a time schedule, 229 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 9: pay me so much at this point, pay me so 230 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 9: much here, and it would just. 231 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: Go on and on and on. 232 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 10: He was my. 233 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 9: Husband, he was good enough to do this for him. 234 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 9: I'm feeling bad because it's my son putting us in 235 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 9: this position. And I just figured, you know, as much 236 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 9: as I talked to Dave and plead with Dave and 237 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 9: never really amounted to anything. 238 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 10: God damn it, he did a lot wrong here. I 239 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 10: still can't believe it. And it's not like, you know, 240 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 10: you can really trust anything that he's doing or saying now. 241 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: And I feel bad saying that. 242 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 10: I really feel bad saying all this stuff, but it's 243 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,719 Speaker 10: kind of like that's what was going through my. 244 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: Head when I was. 245 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 10: Finding all of that stuff out, and then I found 246 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 10: out all the money with the family, and then more 247 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 10: of that money wasn't being paid back and he was 248 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:46,439 Speaker 10: living his life. 249 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,599 Speaker 2: Mark's ex wife, Liz, witnessed a change in his behavior. 250 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: I noticed tension. 251 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 7: I noticed anger built up, and he probably at that 252 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 7: point knew, oh my god, what did I do. My 253 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 7: brother's not taking care of this, and now I'm kind 254 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 7: of screwed. I guess more anger deep down and not 255 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 7: outright to me, just more tension, like constantly, and the 256 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 7: phone would ring and he would just slam it. He 257 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 7: was always happy, go lucky, the life of a party, 258 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 7: and very positive energy, and something was changing. 259 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 2: Mark and Liz were days away from a long planned 260 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 2: trip to Ireland when they received a devastating letter. 261 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 8: The IRS drained my bank account three days before I 262 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 8: was going to Ireland. 263 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: It was taken out of my account. It was like 264 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: a withdrawal that they took. So when I had checked 265 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: and I wanted to go to the bank and get 266 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: money for the trip, it was wiped out. And she's 267 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: definitely not seen me as hot as I was. I mean, 268 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: I was absolutely ballistic. Three days to go to a 269 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: trip and I have nothing to my name. So I 270 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: went to his house. Yeah, the feeling was a feeling 271 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: I never had towards my twin brother. It upset me, 272 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: it really did. But the emotions that were going through me, 273 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: the frustration, how pissed off could somebody be? I wanted 274 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: to wreck his house. I wanted to just flip tables. 275 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: I wanted to punch holes in the walls. I wanted 276 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: to fucking smash his windshield. After I got the check, 277 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: and now you pay for it, you know what I mean, 278 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: because that's what you're doing to me right now. You're 279 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: fucking killing me. You're killing me. And it took me 280 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: a lot to be somewhat restrained, somewhat calmed down. And 281 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: you're going to a foreign country you've never been to before, 282 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: you're really excited about this trip. I mean, it was, 283 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: without a doubt, the most frustrated upset I've ever been 284 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: with him. A lot of blood boiling there. So I 285 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: went to his house and told him exactly what happened. 286 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: You're giving me a check right now, give me a check, 287 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: and I'm going to the bank and a better fucking cash. 288 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: Is it gonna cash? Is it gonna catch? It'll catch, 289 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: it'll catch. And I went to the bank in cash, 290 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: and that's the thing that kills me. He's got it, and. 291 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 10: I just I just didn't understand it. Like it's almost 292 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 10: like I sort of shut off about it. And I 293 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 10: didn't want anything to be wrong, you know, like for 294 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 10: for everything else I was dealing with, I wanted to 295 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 10: see my family and I wanted everything to be okay. 296 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 10: I think my mother's a lot like that too. She 297 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 10: just wants everything to be all right, no matter what 298 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 10: the problem is. About five minutes after that problem, everything's okay, 299 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 10: everything's oh, what's on TV? What's on you know, like 300 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 10: the subject changes, and then hopefully everything's going to be okay. 301 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 10: Very shortly after whatever problem we had just happened. 302 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: The way we looked at this trip was this could 303 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: be it, this could rekindle it, this could be the 304 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: trip that says, hey, you know what, we can be 305 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: great as a team and move forward. And from the 306 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: minute we checked into the airport Stewart Airport, we had 307 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: a mimosa all right, let's get going whatever, and you 308 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: get on the plane. I think we had another one, 309 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: you know. We landed in Dublin, Ireland. I mean, I 310 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:05,919 Speaker 1: was just excited to be in Dublin. I've never been 311 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: there before. It was tight quarters with her sister and 312 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 1: her brother in law, and I think his sister was 313 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: living with them at the time, so there wasn't too 314 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: much room to bang the walls all night. We rode 315 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: bikes on a beach, going to all these little tiny 316 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: local breweries and you know, having a Guinness here, and oh, 317 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: let's go to the next place, have a Guinness there 318 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: and just experiencing Ireland's It was a beautiful country, beautiful country. 319 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: I'm sure it came up. I'm sure it came up, 320 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: but it was pretty much put probably. I put it 321 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: to the side, more like, hey, listen, let's worry about 322 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: it when we get back. Let's enjoy the trip on, 323 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: let's have a great time with your sister and brother 324 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: in law, and let's see Ireland, and don't worry about that. 325 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: We'll talk about it later. 326 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 10: Nobody's talking about any other problems that we all face, 327 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 10: money problems. Nobody is bringing it up, not as a family, 328 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 10: not individually, not in the corner. Nobody's bringing anything up. 329 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: When we got back from Ireland, we weren't doing too well, 330 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: and many nights I slept on the couch. Okay, arguments, yelling, 331 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day I said, Liz, 332 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: my brother's going to take care of it. He'll pay 333 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 1: these back. We got to let him get on his feet. 334 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: He'll pay him back and we'll get back to square one. 335 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: Because I was sold in my head that that's exactly 336 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 1: what was going to happen. You couldn't tell me any different. 337 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: At that time. I didn't care who you were. I 338 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: was still backing up my brother, I really was. I 339 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: did not take her side in any way, shape or form. 340 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 1: My brother will take care of it and we'll be fine. 341 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: But clearly wasn't the case. 342 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 7: I didn't really want to judge, because he's such a 343 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 7: good guy, and he would help any of his friends 344 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 7: or his family. He'd take the shirt off his back 345 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 7: to help anyone and everyone who knows Mark, that's who 346 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 7: he is. So I couldn't judge. I couldn't get angry 347 00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 7: because that's what I fell in love with in the 348 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 7: first place. But now it was affecting us and his personality, 349 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:06,719 Speaker 7: and again I did not know the scope of how 350 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 7: big it was getting. I mean, I was hoping that 351 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 7: a world play out and just take care of itself. 352 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 7: I guess maybe a little naive on my part. 353 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 2: Mark was on the hook for nearly two hundred and 354 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars more death than he could handle. Surely 355 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 2: he'd take action and break the Lombardo trade of not 356 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 2: discussing the tough topics that all families face. As Mark said, 357 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 2: this was a very serious issue. 358 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: The heated conversation continued, but ultimately there was no resolution. 359 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: There was no solution, There was no answers. There was 360 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: no answers. And if anybody hears this or listeners that, 361 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: they would say, what the hell's wrong with you? 362 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 11: Mark? 363 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: Why didn't you pursue this? You didn't get an attorney involved, 364 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: You didn't have anybody authorities get involved. You didn't do 365 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: any of the research yourself. No, I didn't. I didn't. 366 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: I absolutely didn't, because again he would tell me Mark, 367 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to take care of it, Mark, I'm gonna 368 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: make a payment, or he would even send sometimes he 369 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: made a payment. Here's a payment. He would send me 370 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: the stub ard I made a payment, whatever amount was, 371 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: and whether that was his way to just put me 372 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: off for another three months or another six months. Any 373 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: other person would have a lawyer involved or an attorney 374 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: in this. I just never did. 375 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 10: I drove twelve hours with Dave, and I didn't say 376 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 10: a word about anything. 377 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 1: I didn't talk about money. 378 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 10: We talked about the road and talked about cars, we 379 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 10: talked about whatever it was. We complained about Dad, but 380 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 10: we didn't talk about money. And none of us, including me, 381 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 10: nobody ever said that's it, Dave, that's it, We're done, 382 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 10: because what would he do after everybody said we're done. 383 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 9: Being the mother is Jef you know, I'm in the 384 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 9: middle of everybody. 385 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 2: Mark's childhood friend Darren reflected on a common human habit. 386 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 12: Well, when the serious stuff happens, you know, when life happens, 387 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 12: I don't know, we kind of show, we push it aside. 388 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 12: It's kind of weird being such close friends and not 389 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 12: really talking about those issues. 390 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 10: But then months go by, and then more shit happens, 391 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 10: and months go by, and then more things happen, and 392 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 10: then it snowballs into. 393 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 12: This After all these years, I never thought of how 394 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,239 Speaker 12: did we not like confront them and to drill him 395 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 12: and ask what was going on. 396 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 2: Mark's sister Judy knew he was in a tough position. 397 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,719 Speaker 13: Peter and I basically were like, this is it. Like 398 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 13: he doesn't get a second pass, you need to turn 399 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 13: him in, and he wouldn't do it. And the main 400 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 13: reason because if I turned Dave in, He's going to 401 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 13: go to jail and I won't do that to my mother. 402 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: I didn't want to because I trusted him. I just 403 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: simply said, he's put him in this position, He'll get 404 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: himself out of it. I have too much other stuff 405 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: to worry about, not so. 406 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 13: Much because of Dave himself as much as because you 407 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 13: wanted to protect your mother from the pain of having 408 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 13: a go to jail, and then because you so much 409 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 13: wanted to help, you know, put that financial situation. 410 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: Right by me taking my brother's side instead of Liz's 411 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: side ultimately created a lot of issue and concern on 412 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: her part. For the time we found out and these 413 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 1: letters started rolling in, I mean, it was pretty much 414 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: evident that it wasn't going to work out. 415 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 2: Mark's ex wife, Liz felt the weight of his decision. 416 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 7: It was all thinking in because basically we were buried 417 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 7: before we even got started. So now, why is their 418 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 7: life more important than ours? 419 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: We live humbly. 420 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 7: We have a little two bedroom condo, we're not flashy, 421 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 7: we're not out spending crazy money. And nothing was ever 422 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 7: enough for his brother and his wife, and it was 423 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 7: always bigger, more and more and more than. 424 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 4: What cost for us. 425 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 7: So and we started fighting a lot. And I grew 426 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 7: up with parents that fight, and that's one thing I 427 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 7: realized this cannot be in my life because I do 428 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 7: not want to be angry and fighting all the time. 429 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 7: It was very sad, It was very very sad because 430 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 7: it changed him into an angry person. I don't know 431 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 7: what conversations he used to have with Dave regarding it. 432 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 7: I don't know, because I never really heard anything get addressed. 433 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 7: I mean I never heard a conversation between him and 434 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 7: Dave about what was going on. 435 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: This is going to prevent us from doing what we 436 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: want to do as far as purchasing a house and 437 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: raising a family and all that stuff. It was never 438 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: going to stop coming up unless it was completely solved. 439 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: And because of that, it was a lot of frustration 440 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: and negativity. I can't deal with this. I don't know 441 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: how the situation is going to get better or when 442 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 1: it's going to get better, and we can't just keep 443 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: prolonging this. 444 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 2: Mark finally realized the repercussion of his decision, and ultimately, 445 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 2: because he really loved Liz, he knew they had to 446 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 2: dissolve their marriage. 447 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: Go find somebody that's going to love you to let 448 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: you buy a house, have kids with you. I'm not 449 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: the guy. I clearly am not the guy, because hey, 450 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: I don't know when this is ever going to be 451 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: resolved and be how far into it am I I 452 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: don't know, but I didn't want to prolong it for 453 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 1: her because I wanted her to have some type of 454 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: a marriage and children and all that stuff, because she 455 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: deserved it, she really did. 456 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 2: Earning their green hats was an accomplishment, but it didn't 457 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 2: mean the inmates were anywhere near the finish line. Six long, 458 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 2: difficult months remained ahead, and one slip up could have 459 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 2: any one of the inmates back to square one or worse, 460 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 2: kicked out of the program. 461 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 5: Entirely, it raised the expectations, but I think also in 462 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 5: reality is oh shit, we got to step this up. 463 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 5: In my mind's like I wasn't expected to know anything. 464 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 5: Now I'm expected to know basically everything. And that's one 465 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 5: thing is when you're a green hat, there will always 466 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 5: be consequences if you didn't do something right. If you 467 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 5: and I could get in a fistfight, we both are 468 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 5: getting kicked out. You might get recycled and start all over, 469 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 5: or you might end up back in a MYIRA, and 470 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 5: drill instructors would even say at any moment, I can 471 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 5: take your program, So you're on eggshells all the time. 472 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 6: Going from one colored cap to the next is about 473 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 6: progress and their achievements and things that they have achieved 474 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 6: in between. 475 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: Each hat that you got was a sign of relief. 476 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: It was one step closer to being home. And it's 477 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: essentially like you know, the analogy I used was a freshman, sophomore, junior, senior. 478 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: As far as the colored hats, you're coming as a freshman, 479 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: not knowing anything. You quickly adapt and learn and figure 480 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,880 Speaker 1: out exactly what it needs to get done to get 481 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: to the green. 482 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 5: I was like, okay, this is great, and in my mind, 483 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 5: I'm like, I'm one more step closer to getting out 484 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 5: of here. 485 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,199 Speaker 4: That's what it represented to me. 486 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 5: As far as like a platoon celebration, I think it 487 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 5: definitely raised a morale. 488 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: The first day of phase one or wearing a green hat, 489 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: we marched out like we did every day, you know, 490 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: to the PT deck and that went back to regular routine. 491 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: Five thirty in the morning. We're now out in PT deck, 492 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: but we're in green hats. And it was funny you 493 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: looked at the left there as the brown hats, you know, 494 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: to the rights the red hats, and then the far 495 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: right as the gold. So we go for a two 496 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: to three mile job, go back to the mess hall, 497 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 1: have breakfast, go back to your dorm and then that's 498 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 1: when we were given our work detail that we were 499 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: going to have for the next six months. That morning, 500 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 1: when we came back from the mess hall, drinal Instructor 501 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: Eggleston and drill Instructor Stack gave us our work detail 502 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: and told us where to report and who to see. 503 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 2: Upon receiving their green hats, Mark and the rest of 504 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 2: the platoon six month clock had officially started. The inmates 505 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 2: had been properly broken down, but now the program intended 506 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 2: to build them in back up with work detail, counseling, 507 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 2: and continued education. 508 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 1: There was a lot of inmates that still don't have 509 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,479 Speaker 1: high school diplomas, so they had to go to school. 510 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: They actually went to school, They got a ged before 511 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 1: they graduated. Would it have been nice to sit in 512 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,199 Speaker 1: a classroom maybe, I don't know. 513 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 2: But Mark didn't have a choice in the matter. As 514 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 2: a high school graduate. He was sent to meet Di 515 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,400 Speaker 2: I Clark for his work assigns. 516 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: So we went out there and nobody's holding signs or 517 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: anything like that. But you went out and you're looking 518 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 1: at the drill instructors and you see Clark, Sir, I'm 519 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: here to report for duty, Sir. What's your name? 520 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 10: Sir. 521 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 1: Inmate Lombarro, Sir, get in line, and you were hoping 522 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: you'd see somebody that you knew come up, and Yin. 523 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: It was in my platoon, so he came. He was 524 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: the only one. Yen and I were the only ones 525 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 1: from my platoon that were in the work detail with 526 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: drill Instructor Clark. We had other inmates from different platoons, 527 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: different classes. We had some red hats, we had some 528 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: gold hats. They do that specifically because they want you 529 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: to mix in and see how these guys are acting 530 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: and what they're doing and how you're going to work 531 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: with them. 532 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 2: Work assignments at Lakeview were based on several factors, including 533 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 2: an unquestioning obedience to orders, the ability to work well 534 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 2: with others, and security risk level. Using this criteria, marking 535 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 2: another inmate rated as two at the top in their 536 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 2: platoon and were assigned highly coveted landscaping positions, jobs that 537 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 2: allowed them outside the razor wired perimeter of the prison 538 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 2: each day for fresh air and just a tiny taste 539 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 2: of freedom. 540 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: As far as the work detail goes. We hopped in 541 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: our van every day and we went through the gate. 542 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: It was nice to look back and see that side 543 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: of it. You know, hey, I'm out here again. But 544 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: we didn't go too far. We didn't leave the parking lot. 545 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: The grounds were massive at Lakeview Correction Facility, huge surroundings 546 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: with grass and fields and trees, and our job was 547 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: to cut the grass in the spring and summer and 548 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: shovel the snow in the winter. But anytime it was 549 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: dry or clean, it was just like, if we don't 550 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: have anything to do, let's sleep the parking lot. And 551 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: they would take us out there with these big push rooms, 552 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: nine of us, all lined up and just pushing together. 553 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: The only thing I didn't like. You had to be 554 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: searched before you went out. When we came back, we 555 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: would have to line up with our hands up on 556 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: the wall and they'd pat you down, They rub you, 557 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: they grab you in every place you didn't want to 558 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: be grabbed. If they thought anything was suspicious, you had 559 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: to get stripped down completely. 560 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 2: Despite the indignities of the daily searches, Mark found the 561 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 2: nearly eight hours of manual labor each day to be 562 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 2: a respite from the relentless pt and heavy handed drill 563 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 2: instructors who were on his ass every single second of 564 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 2: the day. 565 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: Inside the prison, but I have a strong work I think, 566 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: and quite honestly, it made me feel, if this makes 567 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: any sense, it made me feel a little normal. It 568 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: really did. It made me feel a little normal to 569 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: have a rake a shovel of riding Lawnmark. 570 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 2: Moving to the next stage with green hats and getting 571 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 2: a work assignment by no means meant Mark or anyone 572 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 2: in his rough Rider platoon was safe from the wrath 573 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 2: of the drill instructors. This was still prison, and Lakeview 574 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 2: is a hands on facility, meaning the inmates had to 575 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 2: watch their step and their mouths. Twenty four to seven. 576 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 2: Here's fellow inmate Ed Revere sharing a confrontation between a 577 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 2: yse ass inmate and a DII that kept him on 578 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 2: edge for the duration of his sentence, and. 579 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 5: The drill instructure stops and goes, what are you doing? 580 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 5: He goes, f you just had this attitude really going off. 581 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 5: Drillstru goes, okay, he took one step away. The drill 582 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 5: instructor turned around and smacked him. Were squaring the face, 583 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 5: knocked him out cold, grabs them by his ankle, drags 584 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 5: them into the danger zone. The guy comes around, he 585 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 5: gets crawls in his rack. He wakes up and he's like, 586 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 5: what happened. We're like, dude, you can't mess with these guys. 587 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 5: There's no cameras. They say, it's a hands on facility, 588 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 5: and they don't play. 589 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 2: Undoubtedly the best thing about advancing out of the pre 590 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 2: shock orientation was that incarcerated individuals who earned their green 591 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 2: hats could now have visitors. And Mark loved his family 592 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 2: more than anything. Visits from his mom, brothers, sisters, and 593 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:18,239 Speaker 2: friends always lifted his spirits and more importantly, helped him 594 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 2: keep on the right track towards graduation. 595 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: I was so excited, Oh my god, I have a visitor. 596 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: I have somebody's here to see me. 597 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 9: You know, the first time I saw him at Shock, 598 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 9: it was thinner, but he seemed. 599 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 10: Happier. 600 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 9: I can't say happier, but he seemed he was all right. 601 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 9: You know, he held it together, that hugged him. I 602 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 9: could only hug ones and you try to talk normal. 603 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 9: You know, there's no sense talking about where you are 604 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 9: or what you you know. 605 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 10: I was like, don't screw up. What can I tell you? 606 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 10: Don't screw up? You can't screw up. You gotta do this, 607 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 10: do whatever you need to do. To get out of here. 608 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 10: Please just do it for everybody, get the hell out 609 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 10: of this place. And he's like, I'm going to do that. 610 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 10: I'm going to do that. I'm going to get out 611 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 10: of here as quickly as i can, and I'm not 612 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 10: going to fail. 613 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 9: There were all coin operated machines, sodas, candies, chips and whatever. 614 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 9: He couldn't have any of that. That was not allowed, 615 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 9: and he couldn't handle money. 616 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: So there was a red line. 617 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 9: And we'd walk them up to the line and say, okay, 618 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 9: what do you want. You want chips, you want this, 619 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 9: you want that, So we would get them everything and 620 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 9: then you'd give it. 621 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 10: To him at the table. 622 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 9: But he couldn't cross that line to put the money in. 623 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 2: When they weren't doing intense pt running for miles on 624 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 2: end in the brutal winter cold of western New York, 625 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 2: cleaning the dorm, or doing hard labor. The Shock program 626 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 2: also had asat classes for alcohol, substance and abuse treatment. 627 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 2: This counseling ran from the moment they arrived through graduation 628 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 2: and helped inmates, many of whom were addicts, acquire the 629 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,720 Speaker 2: skills needed to stay clean upon their release. 630 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: Counselor Rose she was one of the AFAT counselors. She 631 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: was very good. She had a lot of patience because, 632 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 1: let's face it, you have a room full of people 633 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: doing drugs, selling drugs, enjoying alcohol, and you're basically teaching 634 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: a class to tell them why they shouldn't. It wasn't 635 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 1: like a drill instructor in your face, treating you like 636 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: you're an inmate. She actually spoke to you as you 637 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: were a human being and she wanted to help you. 638 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: You were taught things, you had to take tests, you 639 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: had to pass them, you had to get up. Occasionally 640 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: she would give you a topic and you would have 641 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: to get up and discuss it, bringing awareness to everybody 642 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,720 Speaker 1: and hopefully making you realize that drugs and alcohol aren't 643 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: the best thing for you. 644 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 2: Another aspect of counseling, known as confrontation or pull ups, 645 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 2: was where bad behavior was called out and no matter 646 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 2: what was said about an inmate, he was expected to 647 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 2: take the criticism and learn from it. 648 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:20,359 Speaker 1: So confrontation is a way to throw somebody under the bus, 649 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: and you basically had to fill out a slip on 650 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: a piece of paper of somebody you saw doing something wrong, 651 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: and you're gonna call him out on it, and you 652 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: would put it into a little basket that they would 653 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 1: have up front, and the drill instructor would get up 654 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: there and he'd pull him out one by one. They'd 655 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: say it meant Lombardo, please stand He says, who you 656 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: calling out today, Sir? I'm calling out Nash. Sir Nash 657 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 1: stand up? All right, Lombardo? Why are you calling him out? 658 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: And that was a written there, so I couldn't make 659 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: it up. Whatever I put down there, I had to say. 660 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 1: You know, those were the types of things that you 661 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: could see the blood boiling. I can't believe you just 662 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 1: fucking ratted me out. I stole food, you know. And 663 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: they do this for a reason. They want to see 664 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: if you're going to retaliate. 665 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 6: They all hold each other accountable, not just the drone instructor. 666 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,879 Speaker 6: And they need to know that because I don't have 667 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,359 Speaker 6: eyes everywhere at all times. And it's about integrity, so 668 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 6: they know that they can't get away with something even 669 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 6: if I'm not there. Integrity is a big deal. 670 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 4: No matter who's watching, you try to do the right thing. 671 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 2: Rarely did anyone act out during the counseling sessions as 672 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 2: doing so in front of the d i's would certainly 673 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:37,240 Speaker 2: result an ejection from the program. Oh inmate, settle the score. 674 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 2: They just waited until the time was right. 675 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 11: Shock Incarceration is a joint production from iHeartRadio and Doghouse Pictures, 676 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 11: produced and hosted by Jeff Keating. Executive producers are Mark Lombardo, 677 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 11: Tommy James, Noel Brown, and Jeff Keating. Written by Jim Roberts, 678 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 11: Tommy James, Chris Rigotzo and Jeff Keating. Story edited by 679 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 11: Jim Roberts, Edit mix and sound design by Lane Crofts. 680 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: From Herd's Creek Productions. 681 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 11: Music composed by Diamond Street Productions, accompanied by Tyler Greenwell, 682 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 11: Danny Wattanas, Sean Thompson and Spencer Garne. Special thanks to 683 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 11: Trinity Investigative Group and Mark Lombardo's family and friends who 684 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 11: contributed to the podcast.