1
00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,880
Speaker 1: Nowadays here in the States, national parks are national perks,

2
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,080
Speaker 1: or at least they're considered that way. Do you like

3
00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,120
Speaker 1: how that rhyme? No, Yeah, like perks, like like they're

4
00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,559
Speaker 1: they're good. Yes, p E r k s that's the wordplay. Yes,

5
00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,080
Speaker 1: is there a different perks? I'm sorry, I'm I need

6
00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,279
Speaker 1: some coffee perked up because I'm kind of fading right now.

7
00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:49,080
Speaker 1: Oh you're banned, by the way, Yes, the rumors are true.

8
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,479
Speaker 1: Of fellow Ridiculous Historians. We hope you have found the

9
00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:59,720
Speaker 1: podcast you were looking for. With our super producer, Casey Pegram,

10
00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:04,040
Speaker 1: and most importantly, with you, specifically you, we have formed

11
00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:09,240
Speaker 1: Ridiculous History. Today's episode is about something that I think

12
00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,440
Speaker 1: the three of us are all pretty big fans of

13
00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,920
Speaker 1: national parks. Yeah, they're cool. It's so cool, natural, natural

14
00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:21,880
Speaker 1: splendor in the grass or the mountain, the stream, purple mountains, majesty,

15
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,200
Speaker 1: all that stuff, super majestic, majistical. If you've seen a

16
00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,319
Speaker 1: Hunt for the Wilder People, I still have not watched it,

17
00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:30,679
Speaker 1: he says, majistical a lot. The kid that was in

18
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:36,319
Speaker 1: Deadpool too, he's a kiwi um and he is a

19
00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,080
Speaker 1: delight watched that movie. If you haven't seen unrelated, total

20
00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,720
Speaker 1: non sect but worth it, worth it because that also

21
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,560
Speaker 1: has a lot of natural beauty in the story. Right. Yeah,

22
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,560
Speaker 1: it's about a family that lives out on the in

23
00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,480
Speaker 1: the bush of New Zealand. And yeah, I imagine they

24
00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,520
Speaker 1: have some sort of system over there to designate land

25
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,200
Speaker 1: to keep people from you know, messing it up, mucking

26
00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,680
Speaker 1: it about, right, sure, even if all because of the

27
00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings. And what I always loved about

28
00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,440
Speaker 1: growing up here in the States was this preponderance of

29
00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,640
Speaker 1: land wherein you can you can just go camp, you

30
00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,200
Speaker 1: can just go adventuring. I know it's one of our

31
00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,360
Speaker 1: mutual dreams to write or burrow into the Grand Canyon.

32
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,600
Speaker 1: We have discussed that multiple times now that you mentioned it. Um,

33
00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:23,640
Speaker 1: the thing is them, And so I'm assuming that you

34
00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:29,239
Speaker 1: are saying you stand squarely in the four National Parks camp. Yes, absolutely,

35
00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,240
Speaker 1: And are you a little more divided on this one? Well,

36
00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,360
Speaker 1: after what I've read in today's story, I I maybe

37
00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,480
Speaker 1: have to have one foot in, one foot out, because

38
00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,959
Speaker 1: it turns out that National Parks could be a real

39
00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,720
Speaker 1: thorn in the side of working Americans throughout history and

40
00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:53,320
Speaker 1: well today, right because the National Park system was created

41
00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,480
Speaker 1: way back in nineteen sixty and August twenty five in

42
00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:03,720
Speaker 1: this country, and we're going to explore how how these

43
00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:10,600
Speaker 1: became a surprisingly controversial concept to a lot of people.

44
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,720
Speaker 1: So our story begins today in nineteen o eight, when

45
00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:22,480
Speaker 1: President Theodore Roosevelt established something called the Lake Malheur Reservation

46
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:27,720
Speaker 1: in Oregon. And I believe that our friend Casey Pegram

47
00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:33,040
Speaker 1: has a little more insight for us on Lake Malheur. Yeah.

48
00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:39,000
Speaker 1: So the word maller French u could be uh considered

49
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:43,080
Speaker 1: like an antonym for bonner, which is happiness boner. So

50
00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,840
Speaker 1: mallard kind of means a lot of things depending on

51
00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,680
Speaker 1: the context, but they're all bad. Um. You could say

52
00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:53,200
Speaker 1: it's a misfortune, a calamity and ordeal and accident. Um.

53
00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,240
Speaker 1: So yeah, there you go, Mallard lake bad. Yeah, well

54
00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:02,960
Speaker 1: that's said. That's foreshadowing also, Casey the case indeed, Um,

55
00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:04,800
Speaker 1: let's just get a few Let's let's deal with some

56
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,240
Speaker 1: semantics up front right here. Okay, we we we talked

57
00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,720
Speaker 1: about national parks, like that's what we're talking about. And

58
00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,960
Speaker 1: while the system that created national parks is very much

59
00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:20,039
Speaker 1: the same system that created wilderness refuges and designates, you know,

60
00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,200
Speaker 1: wildlife reserves and things like that. They're not exactly the same, right, Yeah,

61
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:30,880
Speaker 1: there's an important distinction to make because when President Roosevelt

62
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:37,280
Speaker 1: established this reservation, it was the nineteen of fifty one

63
00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:42,080
Speaker 1: wildlife refuges that were ultimately created by Roosevelt during his tenure,

64
00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,960
Speaker 1: he was just making refugees left and right. You know,

65
00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,359
Speaker 1: he was a bit of an outdoorsman, he was, indeed, No,

66
00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,320
Speaker 1: he was. Indeed. My question though, is can can we

67
00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:54,479
Speaker 1: can we spell it out for the listeners and for

68
00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,160
Speaker 1: for my dumbass exactly what the differences between a wildlife refuge,

69
00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,400
Speaker 1: a national park and a wild i reserve? Yes we

70
00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,160
Speaker 1: can with a little help from Ali Berman writing for

71
00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:10,120
Speaker 1: Mother Nature Network with the article parks versus refuge what's

72
00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:15,480
Speaker 1: the difference? So in this article, which is fantastic, pretty

73
00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,080
Speaker 1: comprehensive by the way, we learned that there are several

74
00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,679
Speaker 1: different manners in which government land can be set aside

75
00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,760
Speaker 1: for specific purposes. So first, there's the national park. Everybody

76
00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:32,280
Speaker 1: knows that idea think of Yellowstone, right, and Yellowstone was

77
00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:38,240
Speaker 1: established way back in eighteen seventy two, so it's the

78
00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,160
Speaker 1: predecessor to the early nineteen hundreds plans laid by Woodrow

79
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,839
Speaker 1: Wilson with the National Park Service. Then they're also state parks,

80
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,560
Speaker 1: which are like national parks, but they're under you know,

81
00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:54,680
Speaker 1: the management of an individual state. Then there are national forests,

82
00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:59,200
Speaker 1: which are also different, and the difference here comes in

83
00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:04,919
Speaker 1: terms of the level of conservation. So national parks have

84
00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:10,120
Speaker 1: preservation at the forefront of their priorities. National forest have

85
00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,640
Speaker 1: a larger array of activities like cutting down trees for timber,

86
00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,360
Speaker 1: cattle grazing which will come into play later, and mining.

87
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:23,480
Speaker 1: National preserves are open to the public, and the differences

88
00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:28,920
Speaker 1: that preserves typically allow activities like hunting, trapping, or mining.

89
00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,479
Speaker 1: And then of course there are national monuments, things like

90
00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:37,880
Speaker 1: Stature Liberty, Mount St. Helen's National Recreation areas, state preserves,

91
00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:44,039
Speaker 1: state nature preserves make environmental preservation a top priority. For instance,

92
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:49,000
Speaker 1: Indiana calls its state preserves living museums, so these are

93
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:54,400
Speaker 1: protected for scientific research and educational resources. That means that

94
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,279
Speaker 1: human activities are much more regulated. But the reason that

95
00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:05,560
Speaker 1: Teddy rose about den to designate the malleor wildlife reserve,

96
00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,840
Speaker 1: it was because of ladies fancy hats. Yes, did you

97
00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,040
Speaker 1: know that? Yes, it's absolutely it could be men's fantom size,

98
00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,440
Speaker 1: any fancy hats in general, because at the time Mi

99
00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,440
Speaker 1: MI mimum, which was the nineteen early nineteen hundreds, UM,

100
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,560
Speaker 1: they were quite in fashion. Uh, these hats, these fancy

101
00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,360
Speaker 1: hats of all shapes and sizes, but an important feature

102
00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:33,200
Speaker 1: was the plume. Right, yes, you see milliners, which is

103
00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,040
Speaker 1: our word for today. People who make fancy hats, specifically

104
00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:42,160
Speaker 1: for women were always searching for feathers to put in

105
00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:47,560
Speaker 1: this headgear, and the search for birds to supply these

106
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:53,480
Speaker 1: feathers was quite a profitable industry. Right. So in the

107
00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:58,640
Speaker 1: increasingly desperate efforts to satisfy this wild demand for fancy hats,

108
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,920
Speaker 1: people had nearly wiped out several species of birds that

109
00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:10,360
Speaker 1: supplied these fetching, colorful plumes, including birds like snowy egrets

110
00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:15,320
Speaker 1: and ruisie spoon bills. The spoonbill also the great egrett

111
00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,360
Speaker 1: I believe, was also very much in danger. And it

112
00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,280
Speaker 1: was this guy named William L. Finley, who was a

113
00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:26,920
Speaker 1: conservationist of the time, UM, who had particularly hung out

114
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,400
Speaker 1: around that area and taken a survey, and he discovered

115
00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:34,559
Speaker 1: only two egrets in a month's time. And here's the thing,

116
00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,160
Speaker 1: there's another article I saw. You know who Audubon is,

117
00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,920
Speaker 1: You know of the Audubon Society and painter, right, John

118
00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,040
Speaker 1: James Audubon, that's right, Ben, the great American painter of

119
00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,720
Speaker 1: birds who lived from the late seventeen hundreds to the

120
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,600
Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds. And he was quoting in his day,

121
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:53,640
Speaker 1: um as you know, he would go out and paint

122
00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,240
Speaker 1: these birds from real life, and he would say that

123
00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,400
Speaker 1: he had no doubt in his mind that in amount

124
00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,080
Speaker 1: of progress that America could possibly make, including building cities,

125
00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,960
Speaker 1: increasing population, hunting, what have you, that there were just

126
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,720
Speaker 1: so many of these damn birds that there was never

127
00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,280
Speaker 1: going to be any threat. Obviously, he wasn't a scientist,

128
00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:17,040
Speaker 1: and he was completely wrong, right because we know that uh,

129
00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,120
Speaker 1: the that US civilization was also incorrect about the passenger pigeon,

130
00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,679
Speaker 1: which used to blacken the skies as they flew overhead,

131
00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,760
Speaker 1: and they don't do it anymore because they are extinct.

132
00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,400
Speaker 1: So back back to Finley. Here you can see how

133
00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:37,520
Speaker 1: this is a splash of cold water. So Audubon dies

134
00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,160
Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty one, and beforehand he makes this comment

135
00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,360
Speaker 1: about the plenitude of these beautiful birds. Finley in that

136
00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,880
Speaker 1: search you mentioned. Noel uh Finley is searching in nineteen

137
00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,240
Speaker 1: o eight and only sees those two egrets during a

138
00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,240
Speaker 1: full month. But he also does something else. He does

139
00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:59,280
Speaker 1: a little bit of investigative journalism. He interviews a plume hunter,

140
00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:03,360
Speaker 1: one of the who supplies these feathers two millioners, and

141
00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,280
Speaker 1: he learns that a good plume hunter on a good

142
00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:12,520
Speaker 1: day can make five hundred dollars cash in nineteen o

143
00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,120
Speaker 1: eight dollars. Now, could you do us a favorite whip

144
00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,320
Speaker 1: out the inflation calculator for that? I can. In fact,

145
00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,000
Speaker 1: I don't even have to, because the Pacific Standard dot

146
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,160
Speaker 1: com did it for us in the article the Odd

147
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:27,160
Speaker 1: History of Opposition to America's National Parks And according to them,

148
00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,000
Speaker 1: five per day, and those days translates to more than

149
00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:37,120
Speaker 1: twelve thousand dollars in today's UH cash, which that's insane.

150
00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,600
Speaker 1: Let's just be real obvious here. He's not just going

151
00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,160
Speaker 1: around plucking feathers. He's he's killing the birds, and they're

152
00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,360
Speaker 1: skinning them and taking their carcasses home and and tire

153
00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,040
Speaker 1: and wiping out entire populations. Uh And and he boasted

154
00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,160
Speaker 1: this guy um that he was going to take that

155
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,959
Speaker 1: all the way to Mexico um and just hunt them

156
00:10:55,240 --> 00:11:01,240
Speaker 1: like a like a murderous criminal across the west. So yeah,

157
00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,360
Speaker 1: it was this report when delivered to Roosevelt that shocked

158
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,800
Speaker 1: Roosevelt into action, and he wanted to help out these birds,

159
00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:12,600
Speaker 1: these three birds that were left there species I'm sure,

160
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,000
Speaker 1: but sure, And and of course there were probably other

161
00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,320
Speaker 1: birds that he had not been able to find during

162
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,760
Speaker 1: that month of searching. But still the problem is apparent.

163
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,040
Speaker 1: So Roosevelt sets the land aside that same year, nineteen

164
00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,640
Speaker 1: o eight. He works fast, right, and for a while

165
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:42,000
Speaker 1: this seemed to be a workable solution. The population was

166
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,680
Speaker 1: beginning to recover, the population birds, that is. But by

167
00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:51,120
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty things started to go wrong because there were

168
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:56,520
Speaker 1: still agriculture happening around the area right there, taking resources

169
00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:00,720
Speaker 1: that are in this area, and they're sucking them out

170
00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,160
Speaker 1: the same way Daniel day lewis uh in there will

171
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,240
Speaker 1: be blood, says I drink your milkshake. Farmers in nearby

172
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:14,800
Speaker 1: areas are draining water from the rivers that feed into

173
00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:19,720
Speaker 1: Lake Malur, the Sylvies and Blitzen rivers specifically, and this

174
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,720
Speaker 1: means that the lake begins drying up. And what happens

175
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,640
Speaker 1: as a result of that, the lake goes well, yeah,

176
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,920
Speaker 1: the it turns into a dust bowl, right, Yeah, it

177
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:35,360
Speaker 1: becomes a terrible place for these birds. It becomes alkaline, right,

178
00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:36,959
Speaker 1: And what does that mean exactly? That does that have

179
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:38,960
Speaker 1: to do with like the balance of the nutrients in

180
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,040
Speaker 1: the water or I mean if if if it's dried

181
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,480
Speaker 1: up entirely, that's one thing. But as an alkaline kind

182
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,360
Speaker 1: of that's what happens before it dries it up entirely,

183
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:51,439
Speaker 1: I believe, Yeah, it's the pH scale goes off. So

184
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,280
Speaker 1: an alkaline lake, also known as a soda lake, has

185
00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:01,840
Speaker 1: uh a pH value between nine and twe one extreme

186
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,160
Speaker 1: example of this, there's an excellent Smithsonian article I found

187
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,559
Speaker 1: about an alkaline lake in Africa. And this article is

188
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,120
Speaker 1: written in by a guy named Joseph Stromberg. It's got

189
00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:18,880
Speaker 1: some scary pictures. He's looking at Tanzania's Lake Natron and

190
00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,000
Speaker 1: the title is this alkaline African lake turns animals into

191
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,240
Speaker 1: stone man. That's the article I've been looking for this

192
00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,960
Speaker 1: whole time. I actually thought that this lake Maluor was

193
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,520
Speaker 1: that one. But no, you got to see these pictures, folks.

194
00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,199
Speaker 1: They are outrageous stuff of nightmares. Horrify and we'll post

195
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,760
Speaker 1: them on ridiculous historians. So so bad things and and that's,

196
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,120
Speaker 1: you know, per our previous casey on the case foreshadowing

197
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,960
Speaker 1: the lake is basically called bad lake, and bad things happen.

198
00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,439
Speaker 1: This group of people in Oregon starts thinking, why don't

199
00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,520
Speaker 1: we just get rid of this whole thing entirely? Who

200
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,679
Speaker 1: needs a lake? Just call it off. It's a it's

201
00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,840
Speaker 1: just it's become a dirt hole. Let's make use of it.

202
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,560
Speaker 1: Let's sell it to farm is they're good at dirt. Yeah,

203
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,720
Speaker 1: they need it. It's literally a prerequisite or being a farmer.

204
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,200
Speaker 1: You gotta have some dirt. But they knew people might

205
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,600
Speaker 1: already be against this, you know, early environmentalist a conservationists,

206
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,840
Speaker 1: So they did a little bit of marketing right to

207
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,920
Speaker 1: try to really sell the idea. Yeah, they really did.

208
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,880
Speaker 1: They agreed that the proceeds would go to benefit oh,

209
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,680
Speaker 1: public works and schools. I want to say, yeah, yeah, yeah.

210
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 1: So in this article from PS mag, there's a fantastic

211
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,520
Speaker 1: ad from of the day that's posted in a tweet

212
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,440
Speaker 1: from Danielle Brigida, who works for the United States Fish

213
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,680
Speaker 1: and Wildlife Service, and it's a picture of I'm assuming

214
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,280
Speaker 1: one of these spoonbills, because it has a very spoon

215
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,840
Speaker 1: like bill and a baby arms outstretched as though they

216
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,000
Speaker 1: were both posed in front of like what looks like

217
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,520
Speaker 1: a floppy gray cloth backdrop, and the birds in profile

218
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,800
Speaker 1: looking a bit threatening to it. It looks like it's

219
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,680
Speaker 1: gonna eat the child. There it is every bit as

220
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,600
Speaker 1: big as the child. And the headline is which is

221
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,640
Speaker 1: best for all? Over again? This maybe be all this

222
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,120
Speaker 1: bird that's tough? Uh, And then the bottoms vote for

223
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,160
Speaker 1: the baby three seventeen times. No. So yeah, this bill

224
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,680
Speaker 1: was basically fighting against the people that were trying to

225
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,360
Speaker 1: keep this thing going despite the bad conditions. And we

226
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,240
Speaker 1: should read a little bit of the copy here just

227
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:24,440
Speaker 1: you can see how ardently they were endeavoring to phrase

228
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:29,800
Speaker 1: this as birds versus babies. Right right under the headlines

229
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,240
Speaker 1: that we read to you, there's another headline that says

230
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,600
Speaker 1: the Mallard Bird Reserve, I'll do Transatlantic voice. We'll take

231
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,160
Speaker 1: fun ball again forty seven thousand acres of its most

232
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:45,880
Speaker 1: valuable school lands. So wait, acres of school lands. Yeah,

233
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,160
Speaker 1: that's that's the hook. It's giving them a cause, right, yeah,

234
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,200
Speaker 1: because who do you think would win in a fight

235
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,440
Speaker 1: between a bird and a baby a bird, I think

236
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,160
Speaker 1: so it depends on the size of the bird. But

237
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,480
Speaker 1: looking at this bird and this baby, clearly the bird

238
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,720
Speaker 1: has got no question about especially that that giants spoon bills.

239
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,000
Speaker 1: You're the size of the baby's entire head. Yeah, it

240
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,960
Speaker 1: would spoon the spoon the kid's head right off. But

241
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,960
Speaker 1: the thing about this was that they also added concerns

242
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,560
Speaker 1: about another naturally occurring life form in wetlands, mosquitoes, And

243
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:20,560
Speaker 1: in this complaint they talked about the dangers mosquitoes might

244
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,040
Speaker 1: pose to Oregonians, and not to mention the fact that

245
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:30,880
Speaker 1: these um these birds were apparently actually stealing grain from

246
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:35,440
Speaker 1: the farmers who could potentially benefit from the land. Right

247
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,120
Speaker 1: And that's a big sticking point in all of this

248
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:43,240
Speaker 1: kind of national park wildlife refuge argument, at least when

249
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,720
Speaker 1: it comes to certain parts of the country where folks

250
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,400
Speaker 1: could really benefit from those lands. Right here in the city.

251
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,240
Speaker 1: If we hear we think about a national park, we're like, cool,

252
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,120
Speaker 1: that's awesome, save the egretts or whatever. But if you're

253
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,360
Speaker 1: a farmer and you need somewhere to graze your cattle,

254
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,560
Speaker 1: and Uncle Sam has swooped in and take a huge

255
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,480
Speaker 1: swath of land might have a different tune to play. Yeah,

256
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:05,959
Speaker 1: and I want to spend some more time on this

257
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:11,360
Speaker 1: mosquito threat as well, because we again have the benefit

258
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,160
Speaker 1: of being in the modern age. So it may seem

259
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,199
Speaker 1: like an exploitative or manipulative point, but the truth is

260
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,720
Speaker 1: that the complaints about mosquitoes are less about them being

261
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,760
Speaker 1: annoying and more about incredibly dangerous diseases from the time,

262
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:31,760
Speaker 1: like malaria. So I think that is also a valid point,

263
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:37,240
Speaker 1: and that that's another aspect of this incredibly valid or

264
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:42,520
Speaker 1: at least understandable argument, wherein somebody in a rural population,

265
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,160
Speaker 1: by a national park, or by a reserve, or by

266
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,520
Speaker 1: some sort of refuge, maybe saying I feel as though

267
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,520
Speaker 1: you are putting the lives of animals over the lives

268
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,199
Speaker 1: of myself, my community, and my family, because malaria was

269
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,480
Speaker 1: still kind of a problem in that area. Apparently it

270
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,439
Speaker 1: had wiped out a lot of the indigenous people early

271
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,399
Speaker 1: on in the eighteen thirties, but yeah, it's still had

272
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,120
Speaker 1: stuck around. And if you've got a breeding ground for mosquitoes,

273
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,959
Speaker 1: malarial mosquitoes, no less, that's a real problem. In a

274
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,439
Speaker 1: pretty good selling point for this, uh this campaign. So

275
00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,840
Speaker 1: what happened next They did one of the most American

276
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,159
Speaker 1: things you can do. They took out the court. Baby,

277
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:26,240
Speaker 1: you defeated it. I mean it did it went away right? Uh. Well,

278
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,120
Speaker 1: the state said that the Feds had stolen They said,

279
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,679
Speaker 1: more or less, Uncle Sam stole this land. They didn't

280
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,919
Speaker 1: have President Roosevelt as commander in chief and as the

281
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,560
Speaker 1: leader of the executive branch, never really had the right

282
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,760
Speaker 1: two call the shots for this land in the first place,

283
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,720
Speaker 1: and went all the way to the Supreme Court. Kind

284
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,439
Speaker 1: of reminds me of that story we talked about with

285
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,800
Speaker 1: your pops about Franklin. There was just like a bunch

286
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:54,480
Speaker 1: of land that they just kind of took it upon

287
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,880
Speaker 1: themselves to do something with. There was once a time

288
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,159
Speaker 1: where that was a thing. Yes, yeah, this happens, not

289
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,720
Speaker 1: so not so far after it. So, by the Supreme Court,

290
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:12,199
Speaker 1: having considered the issue air quotes the issue, right, theydicated

291
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 1: there we go. Yes, they ruled in favor of the

292
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 1: federal government, and they said that this land does in

293
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:26,720
Speaker 1: fact belong to the Feds. This refuge, this reserve is legitimate,

294
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,119
Speaker 1: and Uncle Sam had the authority to protect the wetlands

295
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 1: from people, even if you know it endangered the livelihood

296
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:45,040
Speaker 1: of those same people. So you may be wondering, friends

297
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 1: and neighbors, where where this story goes? How does it end?

298
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,439
Speaker 1: It feels like you might be thinking that Nolan I

299
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:58,000
Speaker 1: did a little bit of an abrupt cut. But we're

300
00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:04,120
Speaker 1: not ending the story. We're moving ahead because this argument

301
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:12,200
Speaker 1: that occurred way back in nineteen resonates today and remains

302
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 1: important today. We see many similar arguments, as a matter

303
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,520
Speaker 1: of fact, happening as recently as what in old Yeah,

304
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,919
Speaker 1: that's right, what're were talking about? The the the militant

305
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 1: takeover of the Malord National Wildlife Refuge. Is this what

306
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 1: we're talking about? Yes, yes, all of one. So so

307
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,639
Speaker 1: could you tell us just a little bit about this

308
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 1: and how it transpired? Yeah, Well, I mean there was

309
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,920
Speaker 1: a group of armed militiamen um and the Bundy family

310
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,359
Speaker 1: and their followers, headed up by a guy named Aman Bundy. Yes,

311
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,640
Speaker 1: Amon Bundy, not to be confused with Solomon Grundy. They

312
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,840
Speaker 1: just rhyme or Ted Bundy. Ted definitely not to be

313
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 1: confused with Ted Bundy or Al Bundy. Um. You know what,

314
00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 1: I'll allow it, okay, alright, so Amen Bundy Uh participated

315
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,200
Speaker 1: in something in two thousand and fourteen called the Bundy

316
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:11,679
Speaker 1: Standoff at his father's ranch in Nevada. This this was

317
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 1: a very controversial and sensitive topic because other members of

318
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 1: his group, the one that you had mentioned all this,

319
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:26,399
Speaker 1: this Bundy group, were loosely affiliated with militias and something

320
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 1: called the Sovereign Citizen Movement. So without getting too far

321
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 1: into the Bundy Standoff, we we wanted to give you

322
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 1: just some some background on this guy. Uh. He is

323
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:43,879
Speaker 1: an American car fleet manager and his his father was

324
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,479
Speaker 1: a rancher named Cliven Bundy, and his father was a

325
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 1: leader of this Bundy standoff in which Aimon took part.

326
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 1: And there problem was that they were refusing to pay

327
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 1: grazing fees for taking their livestock on federally owned public land.

328
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 1: And they said, well it's public land. We're just trying

329
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 1: to make a living, right, why are you putting this

330
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: land over the livelihood of human beings? And it's that

331
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,880
Speaker 1: same argument Uncle Sam stole it right, This argument from

332
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 1: still thematically applied in two thousand and fourteen. But before

333
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: we get to ten Uh, there there's some things that

334
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: led up to the Bundy standoff there in Nevada. Right, Well, yeah,

335
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 1: it was sort of a bit of a domino effects situation.

336
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 1: So a guy named Dwight Hammond Jr. And his son

337
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 1: Stephen Hammond. Um, we're actually sentenced to pretty significant jail time.

338
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,479
Speaker 1: Believe they both were sentenced to five years UM. And

339
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: that is because they set wildfires on this protected land. Well,

340
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 1: you know, set wildfires, I guess, but they set fires

341
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 1: on the connected land to prevent wildfires from damaging there.

342
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: You know, you you burn things to keep things from burning,

343
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 1: which seems weird, but make a break where there's no

344
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:06,120
Speaker 1: combustible material, yeah, or relatively little. Yeah. They set one

345
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 1: fire in two thousand one, one in two thousand six,

346
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: and then in two thousand twelve. They were both charged

347
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 1: in relation to these fires. And I believe you know,

348
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: the way they said it was that, um, one of

349
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: them got out of hand. But according to an article

350
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 1: on CNN, Bundy, um who did the standoff? Who was

351
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 1: you know, the one of the guys who was the

352
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: leader of the of the militia group that you know,

353
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 1: overtook the refuge headquarter, which apparently, by all accounts was

354
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,719
Speaker 1: completely uninhabited and the doors were open, and this standoff

355
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: was like not really much of a standoff at all,

356
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 1: and he never really led on too exactly how many

357
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: people he had there, and it was kind of a

358
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: whole lot of sound and fury signifying not a whole lot.

359
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: But their arguments were that the government should give up

360
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: control of this refuge so that hard working you know,

361
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: ranchers and farmers can do what they need to do,

362
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: whether it be grays their cattle or you know, mitigate

363
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: these wildfires in order to make a living. So it's

364
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 1: that same argument of like this is more of a

365
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: problem than it is a benefit. So concurrently, while they're

366
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 1: going through the legal issues with this, the Hammonds the

367
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: Bundy's are having the standoff. In twenty US courts vacate

368
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: the charges against Stephen and Dwight Hammond, and this has

369
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: already attracted the Bundy family to their cause. And the

370
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: the idea is that when when the court vacated these sentences,

371
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: they didn't just let them out, they re sentenced them

372
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: pretty much immediately to a mandatory minimum of five years

373
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 1: in prison. And the Bundy said, you know what, we're

374
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 1: gonna protest this, and the Hammond said, apparently, guys, we

375
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: don't really need your help. Yeah, a lot of people

376
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 1: apparently said that. I mean it was it kind of

377
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: had the look of that the Bundy's were overreaching a

378
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: little bit, kind of doing something that maybe no one

379
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 1: quite asked them to do. Because there's this great Vice

380
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 1: documentary where they go to a town hall and a

381
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: lot of the folks, the ranchers, the community is like,

382
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: these guys are jerks, Like they're making us look bad,

383
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: and they're making us look like a bunch of militant

384
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: whack jobs, and that's not cool. It's not a good look.

385
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 1: So I did it did seem like their gesture was

386
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: not appreciated by all. Let's say that absolutely. So we

387
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: know that the Bundyes were big fans of arms standoffs

388
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: right right, and they were they saw themselves on the

389
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: right side of history. Is it a standoff though, if

390
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 1: you do it at your own ranch? Like who who

391
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: was after them at their own ranch? I'm confused about

392
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: that one, yeah as well. Right. But in twenties sixteen,

393
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: this group of armed militants seeking to um I guess,

394
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 1: bring more attention to the Hammond case. They seize the

395
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 1: headquarters of the Malor National Wildlife refuge there in Harney County, Oregon,

396
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: and they occupy it until law enforcement finally arrest everybody

397
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: on February eleven, sixteen. Their leader aim and Bundy not

398
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: to be confused with anyone but out and uh there.

399
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: Motivation for this was again to bring more attention to

400
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 1: that same old argument from the nineteen twenties. They wanted

401
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: to uh persuade the public decide with them in the

402
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: idea that the United States Forest Service and the Bureau

403
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: of Land Management and other similar organizations are constitutionally required

404
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 1: to turn over federal public land to individual states. So

405
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: no federal parks, no federal reserves, only state level stuff,

406
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: got it. So does that did it really accomplish anything?

407
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: Is that was that? It was that a positive step because,

408
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: I mean, the guys that set the fires originally were

409
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: pardoned by by President t Rump recently too. So does

410
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: that mean that the current administration is a more sympathetic

411
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: to the needs of these farmers and more likely to

412
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: maybe get rid of some of these refuges. It's that way.

413
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: That's an interesting That's an interesting question to know. I mean,

414
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: there's always been some degree of tension between the federal

415
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: level of governance and the state level of governance, you

416
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 1: know what I mean? For instance, well, we've already done

417
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: several episodes wherein we learned that handful of states were

418
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: completely okay being their own countries for a while. Right, So,

419
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 1: as of today, this argument continues, and we have to

420
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: ask ourselves what is the solution, if indeed a solution exists?

421
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: You know, are we are we to put ourselves in

422
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: a situation where the quality of life for human beings

423
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: is sacrifice for the sake of biodiversity? Are we to

424
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 1: put ourselves in a situation where we sacrifice biodiversity and

425
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 1: wildlife or natural ecosystems for for people's livelihoods? And then

426
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: obviously it's got to be somewhere perfectly in the middle,

427
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 1: right right right, You got any ideas, if so, we

428
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: would like to hear them, so right to us directly.

429
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: We are ridiculous at how stuff works dot com. And

430
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: we know this is kind of the circuitous, weird one,

431
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 1: but I thought it was fun do a little backstory,

432
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: bring a full circle to the now. And I think

433
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: you did a really good job man, by the way,

434
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 1: especially considering your bird thing. Oh god, I didn't even

435
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: think about that oh, I had to. I had to

436
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: hold it till the very end. But if you would

437
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: like to learn more about this, if you would like

438
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: to see some of those insane pictures of animals from

439
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: the Alkaline Lake. Almost looked at those, dude. It's like

440
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: I shed my bird fear just for this episode, and

441
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: then you reminded me and it all came flooding back

442
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: and like a like a murder of crows flapping back,

443
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: flying back. I'm gonna need you to finish this one, so,

444
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: uh yeah, you can see those pictures on our community page,

445
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. You can find us on Instagram, you can

446
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter, and you can check out our

447
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: website for every single show we have ever done. We

448
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: don't tweet doing, but we were. You and I spend

449
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: more time on the Instagram and the Facebook page. That's true.

450
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: We need we need to get a little more personal

451
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: with that Instagram though. I looked at the other day

452
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,239
Speaker 1: and it was kind of a sad site. Let us

453
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: know what you would like to see on the Instagram

454
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: and we will. We will pop in there ourselves and

455
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: get a little bit ridiculous with it. But in the meantime,

456
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: our website is ridiculous History show dot com. And we'd

457
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: also like to you know what, listen on a positive notal.

458
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: What's your favorite national park if you're not in the States,

459
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: what's does your country have an equivalent? Yeah, let us know.

460
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: Um and we had also, of course, I thank super

461
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: producer Casey Pegram Alex Williams, who composed our theme. I

462
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: like to thank you Ben and thank you Noal for

463
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: waiting till the end to mention the fact of this

464
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: episode was about birds, coca, broke coca, and um. Yeah.

465
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: Most importantly, thank you guys for listening and tuning in

466
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: and join us next time when we talk about something

467
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: else that's right old tune in for our next episode

468
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: when we explore the surprising origins of Oregon. Let's see

469
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: it then, folks,