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Speaker 1: Pushkin Hello. Hello. Before we get on with our show,

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Speaker 1: I want you to know that your Pushkin Plus subscription

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Speaker 1: week before they were released to the public. That's one

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Speaker 1: week of exclusive access. If you want to listen to

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Speaker 1: more episodes a week before they're widely available, sign up

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Speaker 1: for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts or by visiting Pushkin,

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Speaker 1: dot Fm, slash Plus. Now onto the episode. It was

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Speaker 1: the fall of nineteen seventy two, the waning days of

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Speaker 1: the Vietnam War. American troops have been sent home, leaving

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Speaker 1: the South Vietnamese to keep fighting on their own. President

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Speaker 1: Richard Nixon called this policy Vietnamization.

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Speaker 2: We can continue our program of withdrawing American forces without

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Speaker 2: detriment to our overall goal of ensuring South Vietnam's survival

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Speaker 2: as an independent country.

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Speaker 1: There were fewer than twenty Navy Seals left in the

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Speaker 1: country by that point. They were there to quote unquote

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Speaker 1: advise the South Vietnamese military. In reality, the seals were

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Speaker 1: running missions at the front lines and sometimes dangerously behind them.

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Speaker 1: On October thirtieth, Petty Officer Michael Thornton was about to

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Speaker 1: set out on one of those missions. Thornton's hometown was Spartanburg,

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Speaker 1: South Carolina. He was six foot two, thickly muscled, with

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Speaker 1: a reputation for carrying twice the loads of ammunition as

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Speaker 1: other guys alongside Burns, a cleft chin, and an elvis pout.

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Speaker 1: His fellow seals called him the Mighty Thar. At seventeen,

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Speaker 1: he had been given the choice between reform school and

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Speaker 1: the military. He chose the military. With him that night

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Speaker 1: in October was Lieutenant Thomas Norris. Tommy Norris was twenty eight,

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Speaker 1: a seasoned officer. He cast a completely different shadow than

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Speaker 1: Mike lah He was fine boned and wiry, five foot six,

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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty pounds, soaking wet. A high school

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Speaker 1: wrestling champion back home in Maryland, his nickname was Nasty Norris.

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Speaker 1: There was nobody tougher. The two seals knew each other,

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Speaker 1: even though they'd never been on a mission together before.

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Speaker 1: There were so few seals left that they all knew

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Speaker 1: each other. When Tommy was asked to choose one other

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Speaker 1: seal to accompany him on a scouting mission, he chose

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Speaker 1: Mike the Mighty thor and Nasty Norris They were meant

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Speaker 1: to investigate a naval base that had been taken just

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Speaker 1: a few months earlier by the North Vietnamese Army during

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Speaker 1: its relentless southward march. The Seals knew they were entering

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Speaker 1: dangerous territory, so they planned to do their reconnaissance under

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Speaker 1: cover of darkness. A Navy ship got them close than

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Speaker 1: a dinghy closer, and finally, Tommy, Mike and three South

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Speaker 1: Vietnamese Navy men dropped over the sides into the South

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Speaker 1: China Sea and swam silently to shore. Everything that could go.

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Speaker 3: Wrong was about to go wrong.

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Speaker 1: I'm Malcolm Glawell and this is Medal of Honor Stories

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Speaker 1: of Courage. The Medal of Honor is the highest military

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Speaker 1: decoration in the United States, awarded for gallantry and bravery

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Speaker 1: in combat at the risk of life, above and beyond

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Speaker 1: the call of duty. The Medal of Honor was established

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Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty one at the outset of the Civil War.

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Speaker 1: There have been three thousand, five hundred and seventeen people

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Speaker 1: awarded the medal. Since each candidate must be approved all

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Speaker 1: the way up the chain of command, from the supervisory

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Speaker 1: officer on the field to the highest office in our nation.

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Speaker 1: It's not just approved by the Secretary of Defense, it

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Speaker 1: has to be agreed to by the President. This show

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Speaker 1: is about those heroes, what they did, what it meant,

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Speaker 1: and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage.

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Speaker 1: And this episode is about what happened on Halloween nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy two. It was one am the five soldiers reached

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Speaker 1: the shore. They were looking for an enemy occupied naval

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Speaker 1: base on the southernmost outskirts of North Vietnamese Territory, a

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Speaker 1: place in the North Vietnamese Army they referred to them

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Speaker 1: as the NVA would have just started to settle down

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Speaker 1: in but something seemed off. From what they could tell

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Speaker 1: in the moonlight, this was not some newly settled encampment. Later,

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Speaker 1: Mike Thoughton would remember how he felt in that moment

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Speaker 1: when he realized they'd been dropped off miles north of

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Speaker 1: their intended target.

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Speaker 3: We're walking through areas.

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Speaker 2: It's been no way in hell they could have built

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Speaker 2: all the stuff up in two months, so right then

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Speaker 2: we knew we're way north.

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Speaker 1: Listen to his tone, by the way, he sounds like

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Speaker 1: he's describing how he went to the grocery store and

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Speaker 1: realized he forgot his shopping list at home. Mike saw

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Speaker 1: bunkers the size of hotel buildings, weapons, soldiers sleeping on

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Speaker 1: mats on the ground. They'd been dropped on top of

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Speaker 1: a major North Vietnamese Army installation. The seals crept along

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Speaker 1: in a line, hunched over so as not to be spotted.

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Speaker 1: Tommy was at the front, Mike was at the rear.

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Speaker 1: Between them were the three South Vietnamese Navy men. Mike

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Speaker 1: had gone on previous missions with two of them, Deng

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Speaker 1: and Kwan, and hand picked them for that night. Both

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Speaker 1: of them were confident, seasoned in combat, and unflappable in

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Speaker 1: the face of danger. Mike liked and trusted them both.

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Speaker 1: Third was a young and inexperienced officer, Lieutenant Tie. Mike

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Speaker 1: kept creeping up to Tommy to check if Tommy was

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Speaker 1: seeing what he was seeing.

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Speaker 2: They had tanks and gun and placements. They had guys

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Speaker 2: with big bonfire, so we.

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Speaker 3: Knew they were afraid, you know, letting them know who

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Speaker 3: they were. And I'm biting down as falls. I say, Tommy,

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Speaker 3: you see this. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: By the time they confirmed their suspicions, they were five

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Speaker 1: miles from where they dropped in. It would be light

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Speaker 1: soon there was no chance they could get back to

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Speaker 1: see before daylight came, so Tommy decided that their best

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Speaker 1: hope for survival would be to return to the beach,

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Speaker 1: hide out between the dunes, radio for help, and wait

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Speaker 1: for night to fall again. Once it was dark, they'd

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Speaker 1: swim back out to sea and be extracted. Silently, stealthily,

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Speaker 1: they worked their way back to the beach. They waded

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Speaker 1: through a stream and waste high water all the way.

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Speaker 2: We could move much faster than the water, and we

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have to worry about stumbling over somebody's sleeping because

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Speaker 2: we could hear a guy snore, and it was unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: Once they made it to the beach, the five men

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Speaker 1: split up and hid behind two large dunes. There was

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Speaker 1: a lagoon to one side, a wide swath of open

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Speaker 1: sand to the other. The sun was rising and they

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Speaker 1: settled into the long wait for darkness. But then they

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Speaker 1: saw two North Vietnamese on patrol.

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Speaker 2: Kwan come flying around and tapped me and tapped him

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Speaker 2: on his shoulder and gave him the sun for two

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Speaker 2: enemies back there. So I went back around and saw

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Speaker 2: these guys coming. I could just see their silho whips.

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Speaker 1: They knew they needed to capture or kill them. Discovery

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Speaker 1: would be catastrophic. Mike crept up behind one and cold

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Speaker 1: cocked him. Kwan, tied him up, gagged him, and dragged

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Speaker 1: him out of sight. Mike silently signaled to Lieutenant Tie

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Speaker 1: to eliminate the other one, but instead Ty called out

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Speaker 1: to the soldier and ordered him to stop.

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Speaker 2: He didn't stop, and that guy had an AK forty seven.

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Speaker 2: He was about three hundred yards away, and he opened

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Speaker 2: fired up on Tie. Tied to jumped down and started

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Speaker 2: running back towards me. So he's running back towards me,

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Speaker 2: and I'm running past him because I'm trying to get

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Speaker 2: this guy, because we could see that he was heading

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Speaker 2: for the village.

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Speaker 1: The North Vietnamese soldier was running back to where he

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Speaker 1: came from, firing off shots to alert everyone to the

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Speaker 1: situation that the dunes. Mike was in pursuit.

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Speaker 2: So I'm hauling can and I stopped on one knee,

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Speaker 2: took two breasts and cranked off two rounds to hit

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Speaker 2: him in the back and the guy fell. But when

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Speaker 2: I looked up, there is a quick reaction for us

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Speaker 2: coming with the village with about fifty guys.

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Speaker 1: You can picture it, right, a huge group of men

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Speaker 1: descending on Mike. Mike knew he had only one option run.

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Speaker 2: So I turned around, started running back, and Tommy sees

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Speaker 2: me running back, and here's all these bullets going off,

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Speaker 2: and he doesn't see me shooting, So he knew like

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Speaker 2: hell that we were in a world of trouble.

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Speaker 1: A world of trouble. That's where Medal of Honor stories

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Speaker 1: are made, in the places where the odds are so

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Speaker 1: long and the risk is so great that it will

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Speaker 1: take an act of extreme bravery for anyone to survive.

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Speaker 1: But where does that bravery come from? That's one of

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Speaker 1: the questions that got me so obsessed with Medal of

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Speaker 1: Honor stories, because I think sometimes we just assumed that

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Speaker 1: curry is a trait, something you're born with, and that

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Speaker 1: what happens in moments like on that Vietnam beach is

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Speaker 1: that we suddenly learn who has it and who doesn't.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that happens when you listen to

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Speaker 1: enough Medal of Honor stories is that you begin to

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Speaker 1: realize that courage is not a birthright, it's a choice.

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Speaker 1: Mike was being chased by a mass of North Vietnamese soldiers.

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Speaker 1: Tommy saw him hauling can back towards the group and

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Speaker 1: fired a rocket at a tree, exploding it and creating

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Speaker 1: enough of a diversion so Mike could dive back into

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Speaker 1: the dunes. It was total chaos because now they were

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Speaker 1: being straighted with bullets. Tommy was desperately radioing for help.

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Speaker 1: He needed a ship to send cover fire and drive

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Speaker 1: the NVA back. Two Navy warships wanted to come to

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Speaker 1: their aid, but they didn't know where the seals were.

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Speaker 1: Any help was hours away. It was a series of

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Speaker 1: problems that would seem overwhelming to anyone, but Mike broke

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Speaker 1: down the big problem into components. They were five against

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Speaker 1: an entire encampment of NVA, but the NVA didn't know

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Speaker 1: how many of them there were, right, So solution number

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Speaker 1: one make it look like they were ten or twenty

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Speaker 1: of them. So Mike started impersonating an entire seal platoon.

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Speaker 2: And as soon as I saw the top of their

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Speaker 2: head coming up, I'd take about an inch shot and

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Speaker 2: saying I'd get a headshot. Every time i'd take a

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Speaker 2: couple of shots like that, I'd roll over and come

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Speaker 2: out in another position. They didn't know if we had

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Speaker 2: fifteen people in there or five.

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Speaker 1: Mike keeps shooting, ducking and rolling for hours, and then

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Speaker 1: someone threw a grenade over the top of the dune.

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Speaker 2: And I just screamed out and I got hit six

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Speaker 2: times when my back was wrapping them, and you could

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Speaker 2: hear Tommy yelling, Mike, Buddy, Mike. But he just saw

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Speaker 2: me laying on my back and I said. I didn't

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Speaker 2: say a word, and about four guys came over and

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Speaker 2: I was laying on my back and I eliminated all

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Speaker 2: four of those guys. Two fell on my side, the

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Speaker 2: two fell back, and Tommy was watching what was going on.

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Speaker 1: Mike was on his back, expecting a surge of more

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Speaker 1: North Vietnamese any moment now they knew he was hit,

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Speaker 1: but instead the action just stopped.

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Speaker 2: Tommy yelled down at me, said, they're falling back. We

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Speaker 2: couldn't understand whether they were falling back. And they had

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Speaker 2: had lost a great number of their of their unit,

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Speaker 2: and to do this, and I still don't think they

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Speaker 2: ever knew exactly how many people we had.

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Speaker 1: A silence descended on the beach. Everything went eerily still.

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Speaker 1: The five men began to regroup, got cautiously hopeful. Had

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Speaker 1: their strategy actually worked.

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Speaker 2: No, it hadn't, Tommy, he said, while they're falling back,

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Speaker 2: and I said, pointed across the lagoon, and we started kunting.

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Speaker 2: A great number of NVA troops coming from both sides

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Speaker 2: around the lagoon.

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Speaker 1: They were close to one hundred North Vietnamese troops. They

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Speaker 1: were now outnumbered twenty to one. Tommy realized they needed

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Speaker 1: a better position. He spied a dune in the distance

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Speaker 1: that would give them a potential defense. The NBA would

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Speaker 1: have to cross nearly a quarter of a mile of

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Speaker 1: open sand to reach them.

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Speaker 3: There.

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Speaker 1: In theory, they could pick them off one by one

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Speaker 1: if they could hold onto the high ground for that long.

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Speaker 1: Tommy decided that Mike Kwan and Lieutenant Tye would run

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Speaker 1: for the dune first. He and Dang would come after.

219
00:12:29,436 --> 00:12:33,036
Speaker 1: The three started sprinting, crossing the five hundred yards of

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Speaker 1: sand to the new dune.

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Speaker 3: So we fell back.

222
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Speaker 2: And while I was yelling Tommy, fall back, fall back,

223
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Speaker 2: and I could see Dang, and this was like one o'clock,

224
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Speaker 2: one thirty in the afternoon, because the far fight had

225
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Speaker 2: gone on for over five hours, was running down the

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Speaker 2: dune by himself, and he was running by himself and

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Speaker 2: I said, my grab and I said where Tommy. He said, Mike, aw,

228
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Speaker 2: he's dead and I saw he sure, said he said

229
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Speaker 2: he was shot in the head.

230
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Speaker 3: He's dead.

231
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Speaker 1: Tommy, the leader of the team, was shot in the

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Speaker 1: head and dead. Mike trusted Dang. They'd been on missions

233
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Speaker 1: together before, his hand picked him for this one. Dan

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Speaker 1: knew what he'd seen, and Mike had no reason not

235
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Speaker 1: to believe him. The situation for the rest of them

236
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Speaker 1: was getting more dangerous by the minute. The team was

237
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Speaker 1: about to be surrounded by North Vietnamese soldiers, but seals

238
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Speaker 1: have a core value leave no man behind, So Mike

239
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Speaker 1: decided he would go and get Tommy, putting principal above

240
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Speaker 1: self preservation.

241
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Speaker 2: I said, stay here, I'll go back and get tom

242
00:13:36,476 --> 00:13:38,596
Speaker 2: and Kwan and Dane both grabbed me and held me.

243
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Speaker 3: Said no, Mike, you stay, and I said, no, I'm

244
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Speaker 3: going back. Y'all stay hear you cover me.

245
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Speaker 1: Mike ran back across the beach, back almost a quarter

246
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Speaker 1: of a mile, directly into the gunfire. He reached Tommy

247
00:13:49,956 --> 00:13:53,316
Speaker 1: just as five North Vietnamese soldiers did, and he shot

248
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Speaker 1: them all.

249
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Speaker 3: I picked Tommy up.

250
00:13:56,156 --> 00:13:59,036
Speaker 2: He was shot through the left temple, and the bullet

251
00:13:59,036 --> 00:14:01,796
Speaker 2: had exited through his forehead and the whole front level

252
00:14:01,836 --> 00:14:04,996
Speaker 2: part of his front brain was gone. His cheekbone was gone,

253
00:14:05,036 --> 00:14:08,396
Speaker 2: his eye sucket was completely gone, and I thought he

254
00:14:08,516 --> 00:14:08,876
Speaker 2: was dead.

255
00:14:10,316 --> 00:14:12,836
Speaker 1: On some level, it didn't matter if Tommy was alive

256
00:14:12,916 --> 00:14:18,796
Speaker 1: or dead. Mike knew he wasn't leaving that beach without him.

257
00:14:19,036 --> 00:14:37,876
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Here's where the story of that

258
00:14:37,956 --> 00:14:40,756
Speaker 1: night on the beach is so interesting to me. At

259
00:14:40,756 --> 00:14:45,476
Speaker 1: this critical point, Mike Thornton, a supremely rational guy who

260
00:14:45,516 --> 00:14:47,716
Speaker 1: talks about the most dramatic night of his life as

261
00:14:47,716 --> 00:14:50,476
Speaker 1: if it's a trip to the grocery store, is making

262
00:14:50,516 --> 00:14:55,516
Speaker 1: what seems like an unbelievably irrational decision as he runs

263
00:14:55,556 --> 00:14:59,476
Speaker 1: across the sand to Tommy Norris. He's being driven by something.

264
00:15:00,036 --> 00:15:00,596
Speaker 3: What is it?

265
00:15:01,396 --> 00:15:05,396
Speaker 1: You've probably heard the saying courage is contagious. It's one

266
00:15:05,436 --> 00:15:07,756
Speaker 1: of those bits of folk wisdom that turns out to

267
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Speaker 1: be true. Research has shown that seeing or even just

268
00:15:12,436 --> 00:15:15,636
Speaker 1: hearing about an act of courage makes it more likely

269
00:15:15,676 --> 00:15:19,236
Speaker 1: that you will be courageous yourself. The scientific term for

270
00:15:19,316 --> 00:15:24,036
Speaker 1: that idea is pro social contagion. When you witness kindness

271
00:15:24,356 --> 00:15:28,796
Speaker 1: or heroism. Two separate areas in your nervous system are activated.

272
00:15:29,316 --> 00:15:33,196
Speaker 1: Your awareness is heightened, your desire to protect others grows.

273
00:15:34,036 --> 00:15:37,796
Speaker 1: You catch your heroism from others. We see this all

274
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Speaker 1: the time. One person holds a door open for the

275
00:15:40,316 --> 00:15:42,956
Speaker 1: person behind them, and then suddenly a whole string of

276
00:15:42,956 --> 00:15:45,556
Speaker 1: people are holding open the door as well. That's a

277
00:15:45,596 --> 00:15:48,916
Speaker 1: small example, but think about the passengers on flight ninety

278
00:15:48,916 --> 00:15:52,116
Speaker 1: three on nine to eleven, A group of terrified average

279
00:15:52,156 --> 00:15:55,716
Speaker 1: people who made a collective decision to fight back against

280
00:15:55,836 --> 00:16:01,596
Speaker 1: terrible odds. They inspired heroism in one another. So what's

281
00:16:01,716 --> 00:16:04,676
Speaker 1: driving Mike Thornton to make his totally bonker's decision to

282
00:16:04,756 --> 00:16:08,556
Speaker 1: race across the beach? Something he knew about that happened

283
00:16:08,556 --> 00:16:13,996
Speaker 1: in Vietnam. Six months before that spring, an Air Force

284
00:16:14,036 --> 00:16:17,516
Speaker 1: flight was shot down over North Vietnam, with one survivor

285
00:16:17,756 --> 00:16:21,156
Speaker 1: left behind the front lines. He had top secret intel,

286
00:16:21,476 --> 00:16:24,356
Speaker 1: so the Air Force sent mission after mission to rescue him.

287
00:16:24,636 --> 00:16:29,796
Speaker 1: Each one a catastrophic failure, men dying aircraft destroyed, Then

288
00:16:29,836 --> 00:16:33,156
Speaker 1: a second pilot, one of the rescuers, got stranded behind

289
00:16:33,236 --> 00:16:37,556
Speaker 1: enemy lines. Finally, the Air Force called in the Navy Seals.

290
00:16:38,156 --> 00:16:41,156
Speaker 1: The Seals sent in one of their best. He snuck

291
00:16:41,236 --> 00:16:44,796
Speaker 1: into heavily patrolled enemy territory and found one of the pilots.

292
00:16:45,116 --> 00:16:48,596
Speaker 1: They got out alive, but barely. Then he went back

293
00:16:48,636 --> 00:16:51,276
Speaker 1: for the second one. This time it was even more

294
00:16:51,316 --> 00:16:54,676
Speaker 1: of a suicide mission, but the seal did it anyway,

295
00:16:55,036 --> 00:16:58,716
Speaker 1: disguised as a fisherman paddling a canoe, and he succeeded.

296
00:16:59,956 --> 00:17:03,076
Speaker 1: Everyone in the seals knew that story, especially Mike Thornton,

297
00:17:03,356 --> 00:17:07,276
Speaker 1: because the seal who rescued those two pilots was Tommy Norris.

298
00:17:10,396 --> 00:17:13,396
Speaker 1: So when Mike raced across the beach to get his friend,

299
00:17:13,596 --> 00:17:17,356
Speaker 1: his commanding officer, he was doing what he already knew

300
00:17:17,436 --> 00:17:21,676
Speaker 1: Tommy had done himself and would do for anyone. Tommy's

301
00:17:21,756 --> 00:17:29,916
Speaker 1: courage was contagious. Back to the firefight, a naval destroyer

302
00:17:30,116 --> 00:17:33,156
Speaker 1: has finally arrived to give them cover. Mike was running

303
00:17:33,196 --> 00:17:35,636
Speaker 1: as fast as he could with Tommy on his shoulders,

304
00:17:35,756 --> 00:17:37,556
Speaker 1: as the ship started shelling the beach.

305
00:17:38,156 --> 00:17:41,076
Speaker 2: I heard the first eight inch round coming in and

306
00:17:41,116 --> 00:17:43,436
Speaker 2: the concussion blew me almost twenty feet in the air,

307
00:17:43,476 --> 00:17:45,916
Speaker 2: and I looked at Tommy and he's flying off my shoulders.

308
00:17:46,356 --> 00:17:50,756
Speaker 1: Mike got blown sideways. He was dazed stumbling. Tommy, of course,

309
00:17:50,916 --> 00:17:53,636
Speaker 1: had already been shot in the head. Now he'd been

310
00:17:53,676 --> 00:17:56,156
Speaker 1: tossed through the air by a shell from a Navy destroyer.

311
00:17:56,716 --> 00:17:59,956
Speaker 1: If he wasn't dead before, he was certainly dead now

312
00:18:00,916 --> 00:18:03,596
Speaker 1: once again, Mike chose to go back for him.

313
00:18:04,556 --> 00:18:06,996
Speaker 2: I looked down, I saw my weapon, I saw Tommy's weapon.

314
00:18:07,076 --> 00:18:09,556
Speaker 2: I saw Tommy over here, and I ran over and

315
00:18:09,596 --> 00:18:12,556
Speaker 2: he's laying on his back. And I looked down at

316
00:18:12,636 --> 00:18:14,316
Speaker 2: him to grab him, to pick him start running with

317
00:18:14,396 --> 00:18:17,356
Speaker 2: him again. And he had to ride eye open like that,

318
00:18:17,476 --> 00:18:19,916
Speaker 2: he says, Mike, Buddy, I said, the son of a

319
00:18:19,956 --> 00:18:20,836
Speaker 2: bitch is still alive.

320
00:18:22,036 --> 00:18:25,516
Speaker 1: Tommy was alive, and Mike had to keep him alive.

321
00:18:26,196 --> 00:18:28,636
Speaker 1: Mike looked to the far away dune where Dang and

322
00:18:28,716 --> 00:18:31,036
Speaker 1: Kwan were still waiting, then back to Tommy.

323
00:18:31,756 --> 00:18:33,956
Speaker 2: Half his head's hanging out, you know, and about picking

324
00:18:33,996 --> 00:18:35,356
Speaker 2: him up. And I put him back on my shoulders

325
00:18:35,396 --> 00:18:36,276
Speaker 2: and I started running.

326
00:18:36,876 --> 00:18:40,476
Speaker 1: Dang and Kwan started shooting, giving them cover. Ty was gone.

327
00:18:40,876 --> 00:18:42,876
Speaker 1: As he had watched Mike run to Tommy. The young

328
00:18:42,916 --> 00:18:46,476
Speaker 1: lieutenant had given up. Hope, jumped into water and swam away,

329
00:18:46,876 --> 00:18:50,676
Speaker 1: deserting the firefight as a lost cause they're radio was

330
00:18:50,716 --> 00:18:54,556
Speaker 1: shot to bits, useless, no more calling for help. The

331
00:18:54,596 --> 00:18:57,356
Speaker 1: only option was to get off the beach and swim

332
00:18:57,396 --> 00:19:01,716
Speaker 1: to safety. The navy warships were far offshore, but maybe

333
00:19:01,716 --> 00:19:04,356
Speaker 1: they could reach them. Anything was better than remaining on

334
00:19:04,396 --> 00:19:08,876
Speaker 1: the beach. Mike, Kwan and Dang leaped frog towards the surf,

335
00:19:09,436 --> 00:19:12,076
Speaker 1: each one taking turns spreading to the water as the

336
00:19:12,076 --> 00:19:15,076
Speaker 1: other two covered him. They had almost no AMMO left.

337
00:19:15,676 --> 00:19:18,996
Speaker 1: The North Vietnamese surrounded them on three sides. The team

338
00:19:19,076 --> 00:19:22,236
Speaker 1: had nowhere to go with the ocean. By now, Mike

339
00:19:22,276 --> 00:19:24,716
Speaker 1: had a bullet through his calf and he was still

340
00:19:24,756 --> 00:19:25,476
Speaker 1: carrying Tommy.

341
00:19:26,156 --> 00:19:28,036
Speaker 2: We got to the beach and I stumbled and fell

342
00:19:28,116 --> 00:19:31,236
Speaker 2: and Tommy rolled over like that, and I said, gush,

343
00:19:31,276 --> 00:19:33,076
Speaker 2: if they ain't killed, I'm gonna kill and dropping him.

344
00:19:33,076 --> 00:19:33,996
Speaker 3: All this time.

345
00:19:36,596 --> 00:19:40,116
Speaker 1: There were swells four feet high. Mike tucked Tommy under

346
00:19:40,116 --> 00:19:42,716
Speaker 1: his arm and dove in, pushing him underneath the waves

347
00:19:42,756 --> 00:19:44,316
Speaker 1: to get him through the surf zone.

348
00:19:44,516 --> 00:19:46,956
Speaker 2: And without me knowing about, I was basically drowning Tommy.

349
00:19:46,996 --> 00:19:49,596
Speaker 2: I felt him because he has been pretty quiet there

350
00:19:49,636 --> 00:19:52,516
Speaker 2: period of time, and he actually started hitting his hands

351
00:19:52,516 --> 00:19:54,116
Speaker 2: and hit me in the back. And I looked down

352
00:19:54,076 --> 00:19:55,596
Speaker 2: and I had his head stuffed in the water.

353
00:19:56,516 --> 00:19:59,716
Speaker 1: The shots kept coming from shore. The soldiers on the

354
00:19:59,716 --> 00:20:01,556
Speaker 1: beach never stopped firing.

355
00:20:02,436 --> 00:20:05,116
Speaker 2: As we swam through the surf song, you could see

356
00:20:05,156 --> 00:20:08,356
Speaker 2: the bullets just going through the water, just like you

357
00:20:08,436 --> 00:20:09,316
Speaker 2: did in the movie, you know.

358
00:20:09,356 --> 00:20:11,436
Speaker 3: And I was saying, good Lord, don't let hit me. Now. God.

359
00:20:12,716 --> 00:20:15,956
Speaker 1: Out past the breaking waves, the water was calm except

360
00:20:15,996 --> 00:20:18,956
Speaker 1: for the sound of bullets splashing around them. Now Mike

361
00:20:18,996 --> 00:20:20,956
Speaker 1: had to figure out just how he was going to

362
00:20:20,996 --> 00:20:24,436
Speaker 1: stabilize Tommy. He took his life jacket and put it

363
00:20:24,476 --> 00:20:28,156
Speaker 1: over Tommy's head as carefully as he possibly could so

364
00:20:28,276 --> 00:20:31,076
Speaker 1: he wouldn't make the wound any worse. He tied a

365
00:20:31,116 --> 00:20:34,396
Speaker 1: line around him, securing Tommy to his back. He saw

366
00:20:34,476 --> 00:20:36,956
Speaker 1: Dang out front of him swimming another of his men

367
00:20:36,996 --> 00:20:40,356
Speaker 1: accounted for. He was hopeful to tie the young lieutenant

368
00:20:40,396 --> 00:20:43,356
Speaker 1: was out there swimming too. He was worried about him,

369
00:20:43,796 --> 00:20:46,876
Speaker 1: even though Ty had left them for dead. Then he

370
00:20:46,916 --> 00:20:50,436
Speaker 1: spot a quan floundering in the water. He was wounded

371
00:20:50,876 --> 00:20:51,516
Speaker 1: and drowning.

372
00:20:51,996 --> 00:20:54,196
Speaker 2: He was shot through his right hip and off his

373
00:20:54,196 --> 00:20:56,436
Speaker 2: whole cheek of his butt, and he couldn't swim. So

374
00:20:56,476 --> 00:21:01,636
Speaker 2: I grabbed him put in front of me, and I

375
00:21:00,876 --> 00:21:03,276
Speaker 2: had had him wrap his arms ar me like this.

376
00:21:03,396 --> 00:21:05,276
Speaker 2: I had arms underneath his arms, and he held on

377
00:21:05,396 --> 00:21:07,756
Speaker 2: Tommy and I swam for appartiately three three and a

378
00:21:07,796 --> 00:21:08,396
Speaker 2: half hours.

379
00:21:09,476 --> 00:21:12,596
Speaker 1: So now Mike was holding two men after a five

380
00:21:12,676 --> 00:21:16,516
Speaker 1: hour of firefight. Shrapnel in his back, bullet in his leg.

381
00:21:17,276 --> 00:21:19,356
Speaker 1: He can't even see the boat he's meant to swim to,

382
00:21:20,236 --> 00:21:21,596
Speaker 1: but he starts to swim.

383
00:21:22,076 --> 00:21:24,796
Speaker 2: You stay focused on the motion, You keep swimming, You

384
00:21:24,916 --> 00:21:26,356
Speaker 2: never stop, you keep swimming.

385
00:21:26,436 --> 00:21:28,636
Speaker 3: You can just keep focused a lot. Let this go,

386
00:21:28,796 --> 00:21:29,476
Speaker 3: keep us alive.

387
00:21:30,676 --> 00:21:34,316
Speaker 1: Tommy, tied to Mike's back, drifted in and out of consciousness,

388
00:21:34,596 --> 00:21:37,396
Speaker 1: waking up only to ask if all the men were safe.

389
00:21:37,836 --> 00:21:40,236
Speaker 1: Mike lied and said he hid all of them, didn't

390
00:21:40,316 --> 00:21:44,876
Speaker 1: mention the missing tie. Tommy got quieter and quieter, and

391
00:21:44,956 --> 00:21:47,636
Speaker 1: Mike kept swimming. He had been keeping his eyes on

392
00:21:47,676 --> 00:21:51,476
Speaker 1: the horizon, where he'd seen glimpses of the USS Newport News,

393
00:21:51,756 --> 00:21:54,476
Speaker 1: the largest cruiser in that part of the South China Sea.

394
00:21:54,956 --> 00:21:56,996
Speaker 1: He knew it had a medical team on board, which

395
00:21:57,036 --> 00:21:59,316
Speaker 1: was a rarity since most of the American military had

396
00:21:59,316 --> 00:22:02,676
Speaker 1: gone home at the top of a swell. He saw

397
00:22:02,676 --> 00:22:05,516
Speaker 1: the ship again, but it seemed to be sailing away.

398
00:22:06,196 --> 00:22:07,996
Speaker 2: Wow, so the worst lighter saw my wife. I saw

399
00:22:07,996 --> 00:22:10,116
Speaker 2: a big boat turn arounding, started going seaward.

400
00:22:10,796 --> 00:22:13,796
Speaker 1: It was enough to make the mighty thorer give up hope.

401
00:22:14,076 --> 00:22:16,876
Speaker 2: Almost later on we found out a ford a server

402
00:22:16,996 --> 00:22:19,876
Speaker 2: plane had said there's nothing but a bunch of bodies

403
00:22:19,876 --> 00:22:21,476
Speaker 2: on the beach, and they thought we were dead.

404
00:22:22,316 --> 00:22:25,796
Speaker 1: Mike watched the big ship retreat into the distance. Tommy

405
00:22:26,116 --> 00:22:29,516
Speaker 1: was slipping away, but Mike just kept swimming.

406
00:22:30,036 --> 00:22:32,396
Speaker 3: He's going in really deep shock. He could fill him.

407
00:22:32,436 --> 00:22:34,276
Speaker 3: Just shaken on your back, and there's not a damn

408
00:22:34,276 --> 00:22:34,956
Speaker 3: thing you can do.

409
00:22:35,676 --> 00:22:40,276
Speaker 1: Another hour passed. Mike and Tommy, Kwan and Dang had

410
00:22:40,276 --> 00:22:43,796
Speaker 1: been in the water for more than three hours. Then

411
00:22:44,596 --> 00:22:48,396
Speaker 1: they saw a boat, a traditional sailing vessel called a junk,

412
00:22:48,676 --> 00:22:50,636
Speaker 1: a type of boat that had been used by both

413
00:22:50,636 --> 00:22:52,716
Speaker 1: sides in the war. Friends and foe.

414
00:22:53,316 --> 00:22:55,396
Speaker 2: I saw the junk out there, and I wasn't sure.

415
00:22:55,436 --> 00:22:58,556
Speaker 2: I was so tired. That was a Vietnamese drunk or what.

416
00:22:59,236 --> 00:23:01,756
Speaker 1: Mike used the last of his strength to signal the boat,

417
00:23:01,916 --> 00:23:04,876
Speaker 1: and as it got closer, he discovered that not only

418
00:23:04,956 --> 00:23:08,196
Speaker 1: was it safe. It had been looking for him. It

419
00:23:08,276 --> 00:23:11,196
Speaker 1: was one of two jars, thanks led by another Navy seal,

420
00:23:11,516 --> 00:23:14,596
Speaker 1: Woody Woodruff, who, because he was a seal, of course,

421
00:23:14,996 --> 00:23:18,076
Speaker 1: had steadfastly refused to leave without finding the missing team,

422
00:23:18,556 --> 00:23:22,756
Speaker 1: even as the bigger ships departed for safety. The crew

423
00:23:22,836 --> 00:23:26,316
Speaker 1: pulled Quan and Dang aboard, and then Mike carefully passed

424
00:23:26,356 --> 00:23:29,636
Speaker 1: Tommy up. Mike was the last one out of the water.

425
00:23:30,196 --> 00:23:33,116
Speaker 1: Lieutenant Tie had been found by the junks an hour.

426
00:23:32,996 --> 00:23:36,916
Speaker 2: Before I called the Newport News. The Newport News turned around.

427
00:23:37,316 --> 00:23:40,436
Speaker 2: We started steaming towards the Newport News and the joant

428
00:23:40,996 --> 00:23:43,796
Speaker 2: you know, Woody met us, met us there, and we

429
00:23:44,516 --> 00:23:47,316
Speaker 2: rafted up to the Newport News, got Tommy up on

430
00:23:47,356 --> 00:23:50,036
Speaker 2: the fantail. I picked Tommy up and took him down

431
00:23:50,076 --> 00:23:51,156
Speaker 2: and put him on the guarney.

432
00:23:52,116 --> 00:23:54,636
Speaker 1: Mike stay with Tommy as long as he could until

433
00:23:54,636 --> 00:23:57,996
Speaker 1: the doctors took over. The prognosis looked grim, in fact,

434
00:23:58,076 --> 00:24:01,956
Speaker 1: it looked impossible, but the doctors were another kind of hero.

435
00:24:02,836 --> 00:24:06,076
Speaker 2: And there's a Lieutenant commander doctor. And later on we

436
00:24:06,236 --> 00:24:08,476
Speaker 2: met the doctor again several years later. That was on

437
00:24:08,516 --> 00:24:10,916
Speaker 2: the Newport News, and he said, I swore to God

438
00:24:10,916 --> 00:24:12,036
Speaker 2: that he would never lived.

439
00:24:13,676 --> 00:24:16,236
Speaker 1: Anyone would have given up Tommy Norris for dead when

440
00:24:16,276 --> 00:24:19,156
Speaker 1: he had been shot through the head, or if somehow

441
00:24:19,236 --> 00:24:22,036
Speaker 1: you missed that after he'd been blown sideways by a

442
00:24:22,036 --> 00:24:24,956
Speaker 1: shell from a naval destroyer, or when he'd soaked in

443
00:24:24,996 --> 00:24:29,356
Speaker 1: the sea for hours, after both those wounds. But somehow

444
00:24:30,076 --> 00:24:30,836
Speaker 1: he made it through.

445
00:24:31,996 --> 00:24:36,836
Speaker 2: He survived, the grace of our God, My God, he's

446
00:24:36,836 --> 00:24:37,956
Speaker 2: still with us.

447
00:24:38,876 --> 00:24:41,636
Speaker 1: He wasn't just the heroics of Mike Thornton that save

448
00:24:41,756 --> 00:24:45,236
Speaker 1: Tommy Norris. It was Kwan and Dang staying on the

449
00:24:45,236 --> 00:24:47,876
Speaker 1: beach to give them cover. It was the persistence of

450
00:24:47,916 --> 00:24:51,276
Speaker 1: Woody Woodruff refusing to call off his search. It was

451
00:24:51,316 --> 00:24:53,956
Speaker 1: the surgeons on the Newport News and then the doctors

452
00:24:53,956 --> 00:24:57,236
Speaker 1: who took over when Tommy was shipped home. And what

453
00:24:57,396 --> 00:25:02,036
Speaker 1: started this chain reaction Tommy's own courage the previous April,

454
00:25:02,596 --> 00:25:07,076
Speaker 1: that social contagion of a willingness to try improbable things.

455
00:25:07,756 --> 00:25:10,556
Speaker 1: You can still hear that courage, Tommy's voice as he

456
00:25:10,596 --> 00:25:13,956
Speaker 1: remembers the early days of surgery that turned into years

457
00:25:13,956 --> 00:25:14,716
Speaker 1: in the hospital.

458
00:25:15,676 --> 00:25:17,476
Speaker 4: The doctors even came in and said, we didn't think

459
00:25:17,516 --> 00:25:20,076
Speaker 4: we were ever gonna save you, and so I don't

460
00:25:20,076 --> 00:25:24,276
Speaker 4: know how you know you stayed alive and made it through.

461
00:25:24,516 --> 00:25:25,236
Speaker 5: But he said you just.

462
00:25:25,156 --> 00:25:30,676
Speaker 4: Wouldn't give up, And I get I think that's part

463
00:25:30,676 --> 00:25:31,196
Speaker 4: of what it was.

464
00:25:31,516 --> 00:25:33,676
Speaker 5: You just have a determination not to give up. And

465
00:25:34,436 --> 00:25:35,476
Speaker 5: my injury.

466
00:25:36,756 --> 00:25:40,436
Speaker 4: When you see the death and destruction to other people

467
00:25:40,476 --> 00:25:42,476
Speaker 4: that you see in war, I mean, what I have

468
00:25:42,596 --> 00:25:46,356
Speaker 4: is nothing. So I lost an eye, part of my

469
00:25:46,676 --> 00:25:49,316
Speaker 4: head and brain, and had some other bodily injuries.

470
00:25:49,356 --> 00:25:53,516
Speaker 5: But what is that? I mean, I have another eye.

471
00:25:53,956 --> 00:25:57,676
Speaker 1: He has another eye. When you hear stories of courage,

472
00:25:57,676 --> 00:26:00,836
Speaker 1: your valor, it forces you to ask the question of yourself,

473
00:26:01,516 --> 00:26:04,876
Speaker 1: what do I have within me? That's what Tommy's story

474
00:26:04,916 --> 00:26:08,996
Speaker 1: did for Mike. It lifted him up and then in turn,

475
00:26:09,636 --> 00:26:25,116
Speaker 1: Mike carried him home. One day. A year later, in

476
00:26:25,156 --> 00:26:28,636
Speaker 1: October of nineteen seventy three, Mike Thornton decided to bust

477
00:26:28,676 --> 00:26:32,476
Speaker 1: Tommy Norris out of the hospital against doctor's orders. He

478
00:26:32,636 --> 00:26:35,196
Speaker 1: was an absurd thing to do. He had surgery the

479
00:26:35,236 --> 00:26:37,596
Speaker 1: next day, but they were going to the White House

480
00:26:38,116 --> 00:26:40,956
Speaker 1: because Mike had been awarded the Medal of Honor.

481
00:26:41,916 --> 00:26:43,076
Speaker 3: I'll never forget that day.

482
00:26:43,636 --> 00:26:45,836
Speaker 2: My mom and dad was there, my brother was there,

483
00:26:46,636 --> 00:26:49,436
Speaker 2: Tommy was there, and the President asked me and said, Mike,

484
00:26:49,996 --> 00:26:53,076
Speaker 2: you know what does this mean to you? Is President

485
00:26:53,196 --> 00:26:55,556
Speaker 2: Nixon and we're in the East room, and I said, sir,

486
00:26:55,556 --> 00:26:57,796
Speaker 2: if you could take something, cut this in half. I

487
00:26:57,836 --> 00:26:59,596
Speaker 2: about to give the other half this medal to the

488
00:26:59,676 --> 00:27:02,756
Speaker 2: gentleman standing behind me, and that was tom.

489
00:27:02,556 --> 00:27:06,036
Speaker 1: Mike kept his medal intact, which was fine because three

490
00:27:06,116 --> 00:27:09,236
Speaker 1: years later he was back at the White House watching

491
00:27:09,276 --> 00:27:11,956
Speaker 1: Tommy get his own medal of honor for his rescue

492
00:27:11,956 --> 00:27:15,636
Speaker 1: of the two pilots. It goes on from there. They

493
00:27:15,636 --> 00:27:18,796
Speaker 1: are more than former conrads and arms. They're best friends.

494
00:27:19,156 --> 00:27:22,716
Speaker 1: They finish each other's sentences. They laugh about everything, even

495
00:27:23,036 --> 00:27:25,596
Speaker 1: the worst night of their lives. When they were wandering

496
00:27:25,636 --> 00:27:28,196
Speaker 1: through that North Vietnamese encampment, he.

497
00:27:28,276 --> 00:27:32,796
Speaker 4: Kind of looked at me like, yeah, you're we're not

498
00:27:32,876 --> 00:27:33,796
Speaker 4: where we're supposed to be.

499
00:27:34,276 --> 00:27:35,636
Speaker 5: And he go back to the back of the line

500
00:27:35,676 --> 00:27:36,156
Speaker 5: and off we go.

501
00:27:36,236 --> 00:27:40,116
Speaker 4: We patrol some more, and now every time we'd stop,

502
00:27:40,156 --> 00:27:42,236
Speaker 4: he'd let me know that, you know, hey, dumb, dumb,

503
00:27:42,236 --> 00:27:43,316
Speaker 4: we're not what we're supposed to be.

504
00:27:45,076 --> 00:27:47,396
Speaker 1: Mike and Tommy helped to bring Lieutenant Tie and Kwon

505
00:27:47,516 --> 00:27:50,076
Speaker 1: to the US. Dang didn't make it out before the

506
00:27:50,116 --> 00:27:56,396
Speaker 1: fall of South Vietnam, he was captured and executed. Despite

507
00:27:56,436 --> 00:27:59,156
Speaker 1: the loss of his eye, Tommy became an FBI agent,

508
00:27:59,636 --> 00:28:04,476
Speaker 1: acing the entrance exam and the training. Unsurprisingly, eventually he

509
00:28:04,556 --> 00:28:07,276
Speaker 1: was one of the founders of the Hostage Rescue Team,

510
00:28:07,676 --> 00:28:11,276
Speaker 1: which feels fitting for someone who is so doggedly obsessed

511
00:28:11,556 --> 00:28:14,596
Speaker 1: with getting people to safety. Mike went on to be

512
00:28:14,676 --> 00:28:19,036
Speaker 1: a founding member of Seal Team six, working in counter terrorism.

513
00:28:19,396 --> 00:28:22,956
Speaker 1: He's considered to be the ultimate Seal, a giant of

514
00:28:22,956 --> 00:28:26,076
Speaker 1: a man acres of ribbons across his dress Whites.

515
00:28:26,956 --> 00:28:28,916
Speaker 2: I love my brother to death, but I'm closer to

516
00:28:28,916 --> 00:28:31,196
Speaker 2: Tommy and I am my own brother. I mean to

517
00:28:31,236 --> 00:28:33,756
Speaker 2: live through what we've lived through together and continue our

518
00:28:33,876 --> 00:28:39,036
Speaker 2: friendship for all those years. It's it's just a magnificent thing.

519
00:28:39,036 --> 00:28:41,756
Speaker 2: And it's not just about our friendship, you know. I've

520
00:28:41,756 --> 00:28:44,076
Speaker 2: known people's been wounded together, and I've been wounded with

521
00:28:44,116 --> 00:28:46,636
Speaker 2: other guys in Silching, but never the camorader and the

522
00:28:46,636 --> 00:28:48,996
Speaker 2: friendship with Tommy and I holding now together today.

523
00:28:49,716 --> 00:28:53,916
Speaker 1: Tommy, for his part, believes his courage isn't extraordinary. He

524
00:28:53,996 --> 00:28:57,596
Speaker 1: thinks it's waiting to be sparked to life within all

525
00:28:57,636 --> 00:28:58,156
Speaker 1: of us.

526
00:28:58,756 --> 00:29:03,756
Speaker 4: I don't feel that I was anybody special. It was

527
00:29:03,796 --> 00:29:06,716
Speaker 4: a time and a place in a mission that needed

528
00:29:06,756 --> 00:29:10,116
Speaker 4: to be accomplished, and I was fortunate to be the

529
00:29:10,116 --> 00:29:13,396
Speaker 4: one that was successful in that. But I don't feel

530
00:29:13,436 --> 00:29:16,676
Speaker 4: that I this was something that at least I would

531
00:29:16,716 --> 00:29:19,836
Speaker 4: like to think that somebody else in my position would

532
00:29:19,836 --> 00:29:23,156
Speaker 4: have attempted to do the same thing if they could have.

533
00:29:24,236 --> 00:29:28,156
Speaker 1: They're both retired now. Mike lives in Houston, Texas, Tommy

534
00:29:28,156 --> 00:29:31,076
Speaker 1: lives on a little ranch in northern Idaho, but they

535
00:29:31,116 --> 00:29:33,596
Speaker 1: still see each other at least ten times a year.

536
00:29:34,156 --> 00:29:37,556
Speaker 1: After all, it's only a four hour flight. Even if

537
00:29:37,556 --> 00:29:40,156
Speaker 1: they had to swim it, they'd still find a way

538
00:29:40,156 --> 00:29:56,836
Speaker 1: back to each other. Medal of Honor. Stories of Courage

539
00:29:57,196 --> 00:30:00,356
Speaker 1: is written by Meredith Rollins and produced by Meredith Rollins,

540
00:30:00,556 --> 00:30:06,156
Speaker 1: Constanza Gallardo, ben Adaph Haffrey, and Izzy Carter. This episode

541
00:30:06,436 --> 00:30:11,076
Speaker 1: was edited by Peter Clowney, Design and additional music by

542
00:30:11,156 --> 00:30:15,716
Speaker 1: Jake Krski, Recording engineering by Nita Lawrence, fact checking by

543
00:30:15,836 --> 00:30:20,036
Speaker 1: Arthur Gombert's original music by Eric Phillips. The rest of

544
00:30:20,036 --> 00:30:25,596
Speaker 1: our team includes Carl Catele, Ashley Weaver, Greta Cone, Christina Sullivan,

545
00:30:25,916 --> 00:30:31,316
Speaker 1: Sarah Nix, Nicole Optenbosch, Eric Sandler, Kerry Brody, Taly Emlin,

546
00:30:31,516 --> 00:30:35,276
Speaker 1: and Jake Flanagan. Special thanks to the Congressional Medal of

547
00:30:35,316 --> 00:30:39,956
Speaker 1: Honor Society, the Pritzkert Military Museum in Library and Adam Plumpton,

548
00:30:40,596 --> 00:30:44,876
Speaker 1: and extra special thanks to Dan McGinn. If you want

549
00:30:44,916 --> 00:30:47,636
Speaker 1: to learn more about our Medal of Honor recipients, follow

550
00:30:47,716 --> 00:30:50,836
Speaker 1: us on Instagram and Twitter. We'll be sharing photos and

551
00:30:50,956 --> 00:30:54,196
Speaker 1: videos of the heroes featured on the show. We'd also

552
00:30:54,316 --> 00:30:56,876
Speaker 1: love to hear from you dm us with a story

553
00:30:56,876 --> 00:30:59,916
Speaker 1: about a courageous veteran in your life. If you don't

554
00:30:59,956 --> 00:31:02,356
Speaker 1: know a veteran, we would love to hear a story

555
00:31:02,596 --> 00:31:07,276
Speaker 1: of how courage was contagious in your own life. I'm

556
00:31:07,316 --> 00:31:09,076
Speaker 1: your host, Malcolm Glabba.

557
00:31:10,276 --> 00:31:10,836
Speaker 4: Have sp