1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 2: I welcome stuff. I never told you a production of iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 2: And it's been a long time since we've talked about 4 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 2: Dungeons and Dragons, so I wanted to bring back a 5 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: classic on dungeons and dragons and women, especially because one 6 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 2: of my very good friends, who traditionally has not had 7 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 2: a good experience with Dungeons and Dragons and hasn't had 8 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 2: a good experience with board games, has started to play it. 9 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 2: And when I started to play it a lot, she's 10 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 2: in like three or four campaigns. 11 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: It's blowing my mind. 12 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 2: Now. We hung out last night and she was talking 13 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 2: about the possibility of her being a dungeon master or 14 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 2: game master. I was like, WHOA, You've really, like very 15 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 2: quickly gotten into this, and she's I mean, she's such 16 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 2: a creative person. That makes sense to me, and I 17 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 2: think I'm fortunately, which is something we talk about in 18 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 2: this episode. Part of her bad experience has been feeling 19 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 2: like she doesn't know what she's doing. Men kind of 20 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 2: talking over her or dismissing her character, which is something 21 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 2: I experienced as well, but not not in the campaigns 22 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 2: I've played with friends. No one everyone's so welcoming, and 23 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 2: now I'm kind of like I want her to play 24 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 2: in my campaign so she can show off and show 25 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 2: her like, look, how good of a dungeon master? 26 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: I am really good. 27 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 3: You know. My partner is ready, So whenever you start 28 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 3: this new campaign, he is in. 29 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I am thinking about the kind out. But 30 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: you would be a. 31 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: Fun uh spectator, Yeah, a fun spectator. 32 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: Yes. 33 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 2: But it's been interesting hearing her thoughts and where some 34 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: things have gone wrong and some things have gone really right, 35 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 2: especially because they're doing it virtually, and I think there's 36 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 2: pluses and minuses to that. The campaign I was working 37 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 2: on at this time, one of the players moved to 38 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 2: Tennessee and we haven't been able to play since then, 39 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: and we've been trying to figure out if we're going 40 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 2: to do it virtually or like have some hangout in 41 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: between where we all are I don't know, but yes, 42 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: it seems people are really into it these A lot 43 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 2: of the people in her group are much younger, and 44 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 2: so I'm intrigued by the growing popularity of dungeons and dragons. 45 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: So please enjoy. 46 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 2: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and what come to 47 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 2: stuff I've never told you production of iHeartRadio. 48 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 3: So Annie, Yes, I thought for today's Monday, MANI I 49 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 3: was going to do this whole, like big research thing 50 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 3: and then like, oh, yeah, I got to handle on 51 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 3: this subject for sure, because you've been talking to me 52 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 3: about it for so long that I was like, hey, 53 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 3: we're good. I'm just gonna put some little facts in here, 54 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 3: little statistics. And then as I was researching it, I realized, oh, 55 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 3: my goodness, I actually don't know anything about Dungeons and Dragons, 56 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 3: which is what we're going to talk about today. Because 57 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 3: I thought it would be fun for you to tell 58 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 3: us what's going. 59 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: On in your world of D and D. 60 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 3: Right, And I was like, you know what, and for 61 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 3: Monday many, not only will we have the personal things 62 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 3: that are going on, we'll do a little statistics because 63 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 3: I don't know who we've done this. And then as 64 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 3: I was looking things up, I realized, yeah, I have 65 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 3: no idea what this game is. In my head, Dungeons 66 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 3: and Dragons meant you know, there's a dragon maybe, and 67 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 3: someone we're in a costume doing magic possibly. Yeah. 68 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: No. 69 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 3: And for those who do love D and D, I'm 70 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 3: sorry that was not an insult. I really did not 71 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 3: realize what it all was. And I know you've done 72 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 3: a little bit about. 73 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 2: D and D before before I came on, right, Yes, 74 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 2: we talked about it briefly when I had Tracy V. 75 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: Wilson from Stuff You Missed in History cross on the 76 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 2: show and we did one on tabletop gaming, and we 77 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 2: talked about our experiences playing D and D and like 78 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 2: even with you, Samantha, back when we first started, we 79 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: did our Trauma mini series, we did those self care 80 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 2: things at the end, and mine was always Dungeons and 81 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 2: Dragons based. But I would love to of course, me 82 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 2: being a nerd, I would love to come back and 83 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 2: do a whole episode on Dungeons and Dragons. But Tracy 84 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 2: and I talked about how when the game was first developed, 85 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: women characters had these things called beauty points where you 86 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 2: would use your beauty to charm someone or I'm guessing 87 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: not charm someone, depending on what your character, and just 88 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 2: problematic things like that, and I think some racist like 89 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: tropes maybe in there. This is an interesting world because 90 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 2: you've got like dwarves and elves and. 91 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: They have like traits. 92 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: But it's changed, for sure, but back when it's I 93 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 2: would love to trace the evolution of. 94 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 1: That, right for sure. 95 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, So from what I understand, this originally was geared 96 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 3: toward men, essentially thinking that they would be the ones 97 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 3: that joy enjoyed this. But there was an overhaul and 98 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 3: in the seventies they're like, wait, wait, wait, there's a 99 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 3: lot of women who are really into this as well. 100 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 3: But we started seeing like, but if you're a woman, 101 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 3: you're gonna have to have these beauty points in these 102 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 3: and these and these. But the original creator started by 103 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 3: testing this out with his children when I didn't know that, 104 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 3: and it involved his son and his daughter, as in fact, 105 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 3: the daughter is the one who chose the name Dungeons 106 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 3: and Dragons, So I'm not really sure how they veered 107 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 3: from that to be like, let's make it a little 108 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 3: bit sexist. Yeah, okay, And of course the early editions 109 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 3: had help from other women creators like Jeane Wells and 110 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 3: Keim Mohan and Penny Williams and apparently a lot a 111 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 3: lot more. But yet we still have that like, hmm, 112 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 3: you don't want to credit them for some reason, okay, right, 113 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 3: And that's when I started realizing, Okay, I don't really 114 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 3: know this game. As I'm trying to understand all these things, 115 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 3: and I wanted to ask you, can you give us 116 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 3: the because what I read was there are some already 117 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 3: base characters, but of course it's grown bigger and bigger 118 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 3: into the storytelling and you create your own world. 119 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: But what is the basis of D and D Well, 120 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: Let me begin. 121 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 2: We'll talk about version five E. There have been several versions. 122 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: I think the easiest way to explain it is it 123 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 2: is a role playing game where you have a dungeon 124 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 2: master or a game master who runs the game. 125 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: They are the ones that know the rules that tell 126 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: the story. 127 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 2: So if you were playing with me, Samantha, I would 128 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 2: be like, you enter a bar and you hear buzzing 129 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: of people talking and people are drunk, Like I would 130 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: paint a picture for you right, and you, as a player, 131 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 2: would decide I want to go up and talk to 132 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 2: the bartender and get in a bar fight or you. 133 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: Know, you would say what you want to do. 134 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 2: I would tell you, based on the rules of the game, 135 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 2: what whether or not you can do that, and what 136 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 2: will happen if you do. And that's largely determined by 137 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 2: rolling a D twenty dice and seeing if you succeed. 138 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 2: If you get a twenty good, one very bad. You're 139 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 2: gonna lose that bar fight, Samantha. 140 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: You're probably gonna lose, lose all your money fall. 141 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: And get your head stuck in a bucket in a 142 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 2: bucket even okay, yes, yes, you do not want a 143 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 2: one very very bad okay. 144 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: And so you create these characters. 145 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 2: You choose the race off like an elf or human 146 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 2: our dwarf, and then the class, which is like a 147 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 2: rogue or a thief character or a mage. You do magic, 148 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 2: and then you roll for stats, and there are six 149 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: main stats, and they are things like charisma, which did 150 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: yes used to be beauty points or sell well, dexterity, 151 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 2: and constitution, and you determine on what you roll. It 152 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: determines if, like, you're good at being charismatic or if 153 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 2: you're terrible at being charismatic, and then that can facts yes, 154 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 2: oh gosh, yes, so you have kind of those base things. 155 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 2: And then there are worlds and maps and storylines that 156 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 2: are already written. So if I wanted to be a 157 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: dungeon master, but I didn't want to write a whole story, 158 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 2: then I can just get one of these and do 159 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 2: it that way. I of course like to make things 160 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 2: really really complicated for myself. So I homebrew as it's called, 161 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 2: and that means you write the entire story. 162 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 3: So there is a base, like there is something that 163 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 3: you can just automatically use or you become creative zone, 164 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 3: which is what I was trying to figure out myself, 165 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 3: like what is what's happening? And speaking of that, as 166 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 3: you were talking about dungeon masters or dms, and obviously 167 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 3: there's been a whole I've noticed a Twitter back and 168 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 3: forth like it's a conversation and they're not arguing, but 169 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 3: more of a conversation about whether or not to change 170 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 3: the term masters. So a lot of people have talked 171 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 3: about using moderators and then just doing the initials the DM, 172 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 3: the GMS and all of that. So that's a whole 173 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 3: different level of conversation. But as I'm reading and trying 174 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 3: to figure out this scientific world of dungeons and dragons, yeah, 175 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 3: that there's not too many women who take on the 176 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 3: DMA or GM role. Can you talk about that a 177 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 3: little bit? 178 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: Yeah? 179 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 2: So for me, when I first got into Dungeons and Dragons, 180 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 2: I did get into it because of a dude and 181 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 2: also because of I thought it would help me figure 182 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 2: out the ending of this thing, I was writing, if 183 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 2: I had to play as this character, what would she do? 184 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 2: And also help with the PTSD, which it's been said 185 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 2: that it does. But the reason I put it off 186 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 2: so long was because I was afraid of the rules. 187 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 2: It's there are a lot of rules, and I thought 188 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 2: it was very technical, and if I start playing with 189 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 2: people who've already played, and a lot of them dudes like, 190 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 2: I'm just going to be scared the whole time to 191 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 2: do anything, and I'm not going to do anything. Which 192 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 2: it was like that, not in terms of people being 193 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 2: mean to me at all, but it was like that 194 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,199 Speaker 2: where I was just nervous that I was going to 195 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 2: screw up in heavy quotes, and it is kind of 196 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 2: a it can be really vulnerable, especially with the character 197 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 2: I did, where you do have this kind of close 198 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 2: connection where it's like I felt so timid. 199 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: Like well, she would do this. 200 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 2: Right, and unsure of just how the rules work and 201 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 2: not wanting to really screw up. But I played for 202 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 2: probably a year, and then it became we didn't want 203 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 2: the same person to have to run the game again 204 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 2: because it is a lot of work, but no one 205 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 2: else wanted to run it. I wanted to keep playing, 206 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: so I had to. If that was the case, I 207 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 2: had to do it. 208 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 3: You had to take up the mantle. 209 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 2: I had to take up the mantle. But I was 210 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: extremely intimidated to do it. I will say I had 211 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 2: talked to friends about it and heard about how being 212 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 2: a woman and being a DM, they felt like they 213 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 2: got called out more about like rules knowledge and like 214 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 2: are you sure I think I can get away with it, 215 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 2: you know, like kind of being questioned. 216 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: And these were friends of mine I. 217 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 2: Was playing with, so I wasn't really worried about that, 218 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 2: although in the heat of the game, people will be like, 219 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 2: are you no get out that rule book right right? 220 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 2: And just because I had, I know the rule book 221 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: is huge, I would guess, yeah, yeah, And I'm lucky 222 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 2: that I play with people. 223 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: Who are pretty flexible. 224 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 2: Unless it gets down to it, then they want to 225 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 2: know the rule but you know, like you're more interested 226 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 2: in the game moving on smoothly than getting every rule correctly. 227 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 2: But I was, you know, me Smith, I'm somebody who 228 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: wants to get those things correct and then I start 229 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 2: doubting myself. So I had to get over that, and 230 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 2: I still get nervous, like I'm supposed to play tonight, right, 231 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 2: and I'm already nervous. It's like hours away. Yeah, just 232 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 2: because you want people to have a fun time. And 233 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 2: then I will say something else. I've never experienced this, 234 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 2: but I have seen people experience it or be afraid 235 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 2: that they would. And I've been afraid of it too, 236 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 2: where you're as a woman worried about sexists. It sounds 237 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 2: so strange, but like basically being treated misogynistically in a game, 238 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 2: like your character being. 239 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: Treated that way. 240 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: So I've played with random people once and it didn't happen, 241 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 2: but I was nervous. They were all guys, and I like, 242 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 2: what if I'm the only woman character in this game? 243 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: What if they're like flirting with me or like. 244 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 2: The male villain does something like having that concern. 245 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: And I've heard of it happening, right, I could absolutely 246 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 1: see that. 247 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that I've never been afraid of that with 248 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 2: the people I play with. But somebody I did play 249 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 2: with she kind of had. I wouldn't call it a 250 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 2: panic attack, but she removed her character from a situation 251 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 2: where we were all flirting with like the guards, and 252 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 2: then she just was like, no, I don't want to 253 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 2: do this anymore. Yeah, And I think it's kind of 254 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 2: that fear of like, what is this going to escalate? 255 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: Right too? 256 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 2: Right? 257 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well that's kind of my it's been my experience. 258 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and that's where I'm just as I'm 259 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,839 Speaker 3: reading about why people are pushing or who they are saying, 260 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 3: and the fact that there has to be justifications of 261 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 3: saying literal articles that say, yes, women belong in D 262 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 3: and D you know, stuff like that tells you, wait, 263 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 3: who said they didn't? Okay, there's a fight for this 264 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 3: to even have to be a conversation. And again, one 265 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 3: of the things I talked about with the DM and 266 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 3: if it was a woman, if it versus being a man, 267 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 3: the conversation was like one of the benefits in having 268 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 3: a female or a woman to be the DM for 269 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 3: this is the fact that they're probably more likely to 270 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 3: anticipate a lot more situations. As you've told me, this 271 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 3: is the one thing I know is that you have 272 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 3: to be ready for any and all posts situations that 273 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 3: the players are going to throw at you. A b 274 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 3: as well as the fact that you are a very 275 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 3: creative storyteller and a lot of the times when it 276 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 3: was just all men, it was just all about mechanics 277 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 3: and the technicalities and instead of setting up a beautiful storyline. 278 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 3: And that's for a lot of even though this is 279 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 3: the kind of a gendered conversation, but it has shown 280 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 3: true that women are more detail oriented in things like 281 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 3: this as well as willing to see a bigger story 282 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 3: and or a detailed story. And so that is a 283 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 3: benefit of having a woman to be the DM. Would 284 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 3: you agree with that? Yeah, in my experience for sure. 285 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 2: And I I shuddered to think because our big convention here, 286 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 2: Dragon Con, they have a whole floor where you can 287 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 2: play dungeons and dragons, and I just feel like, what's 288 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 2: going to happen if I ever decided to DM that is, 289 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 2: it's just going to be dudes attacking me. 290 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: For the rules. 291 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 2: But the people I play with are pretty balanced between 292 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 2: men and women, And I will say the thing that 293 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: I've noticed anecdotally is that women are more likely to 294 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 2: recognize that it is a game and there are rules, 295 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 2: and sometimes it's not worth like questioning every single thing, right, 296 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 2: Sometimes if you want the story to move on, you 297 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 2: have to just in the back of your play of 298 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 2: brain be like, Okay. 299 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: This is a game. 300 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 2: And if the if the dungeon master is saying, here's 301 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 2: this important flyer, I wouldn't do it that way. But basically, 302 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 2: if I'm drawing attention to certain things, pay attention. You 303 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 2: should probably pay attention to those things instead of just 304 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 2: being like I want to go that way and. 305 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: Then I have to come up with something completely. 306 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 2: That's what I've noticed is like women are, they'll move 307 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 2: it along, right, And if you're a good DM, which 308 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 2: I like to think I am, then that doesn't usually 309 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 2: become a problem. 310 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: But you'll some players. 311 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 2: Are just like, no, I want to go do this 312 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 2: and okay, and. 313 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 3: That tells me that I don't need to be playing 314 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 3: D and D because I probably would be that player. No, 315 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 3: you can't tell me what to do. 316 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this. I think that I know you 317 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: well enough that I could. 318 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 3: My contrarian personality you'll kind of already know. Yeah, well, 319 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 3: thank you for answering that, because, as I said, as 320 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 3: I was trying to research it, I was like, I 321 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 3: really don't know anything. 322 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: About this. I just know what Annie is doing. 323 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, not the overall, but speaking of what Annie is doing, Annie, 324 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 3: I need an update about what's going on in your 325 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 3: D and D World. 326 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 2: Oh, I'm gonna try to keep this shirt because I 327 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 2: could go on. 328 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: And audit on. 329 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 2: So the campaign I was talking about when we first 330 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 2: started our Trauma series where I tried to figure out 331 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 2: the ending of that character. I did figure out how 332 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 2: that story ends. It's very sad, of course. But after that, 333 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 2: that was the one I took and it was the 334 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 2: first time I ran a game. And that campaign just 335 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 2: came to an end a couple months ago after three years. 336 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: That's a long time. Three years. 337 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 2: I've had to figure out how to do it during Quarantine, 338 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 2: which involves like a two laptop setup and an overhead 339 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 2: camera and all this stuff, and it was really. 340 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: I have to say, it was really I felt seen 341 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: in a way. 342 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: I wasn't sure I was ready to because it was 343 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:29,199 Speaker 2: a very upsetting storyline and I didn't anticipate how I 344 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 2: was like, do they think I'm like messed up. 345 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: RPG? 346 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 2: Because they really investigated and I was kind of hoping 347 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 2: they wouldn't. 348 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 1: But anyway, that's on me. 349 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 2: The other one I'm doing I started recently, so it's newer, 350 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 2: and I have, of course my poor Cinnamon roll, poor 351 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 2: print cinnamon role has just been kidnapped. 352 00:17:59,400 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: In this world. 353 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 2: It is a world of very many Star Wars based puns, 354 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 2: so many like snowby One, Kenobi, Shenanikins, which like imagine 355 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 2: trying to keep a straight face and perhaps do a 356 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 2: voice when you're saying these things. And I'm lucky that 357 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 2: I play with I play with really good friends of mine, 358 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 2: and they know me really well, so they try to 359 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 2: get me to say all the Star Wars puns. They'll 360 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 2: try to get their characters to get to the bottom 361 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 2: of the very intricate puns I've created. 362 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 3: I still think, because we've talked about this before's you 363 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 3: need to do a Patreon because it involved savers co 364 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 3: hosts Lauren as well as a stuff I don't want 365 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:45,239 Speaker 3: you to know. 366 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: Co hosts. 367 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 3: Ben is no old part of that one too, I remember. 368 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 2: No, but he helps me write songs for it. My 369 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 2: campaigns have songs in it. 370 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 3: Listen. Oh, I still think you need to do like 371 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 3: a live feed of or recording of you guys playing. 372 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 3: At one point in time, I think people would pay 373 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 3: a little bit of money to. 374 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 2: See that we actually talked about it. We were going 375 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 2: to try to raise money for a charity. Funnily enough, this. 376 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 2: You know, always keep in mind if you're nervous, other 377 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 2: people are probably nervous too. Because they told me they 378 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 2: were too nervous at first to have it, to play 379 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 2: it and have other people listen to it. 380 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: But I bet they would now now that they've played 381 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: a little bit, they got it. Yeah. 382 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,479 Speaker 2: They always do just the silliest thing I think they 383 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 2: can do, And twice they've completely broken me as a 384 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 2: dungeon master where I just couldn't stop laughing. One was 385 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 2: of this time where Ben's character tried to talk to 386 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 2: some fish. I was trying to get them to go 387 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 2: fishing because they needed fish for a meal, and he 388 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 2: tried to talk to He put his head in the water, 389 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 2: tried to talk to the fish, okay, and I could 390 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: not stop laughing. I was like, you could just go fishing, 391 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 2: which is not very good as a DM, but I 392 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 2: could stop laughing. And then in the most recent one, 393 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 2: and no one will get this because it's a holiday, 394 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 2: the Star Wars Holiday Special Base, but I was trying 395 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 2: to get them to realize that Mala needs to break 396 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,479 Speaker 2: up with Chewbacca and she needs to go hook up 397 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: with either Mando Orlando. However, they completely misinterpreted the situation, 398 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 2: and they're trying to get her to hook up with Wicket, 399 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 2: who is the ewok Okay then, and I could not 400 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 2: I was dying laughing because they were like writing notes 401 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 2: and pretending they were from the other characters. 402 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: That's amazing, It was so funny. 403 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I do have a character based on 404 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 2: your dog, Samantha, Peaches. 405 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 3: I had request just to please put her in there, 406 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,479 Speaker 3: to make a lot of mischief because I feel that 407 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 3: represents both me and my dog. 408 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 1: Yes, and so Peaches. 409 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 2: Basically the plot line is that they have to go 410 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 2: to eight cities and get something in every city, and 411 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 2: so far they're they're on their third. They're on the 412 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 2: way to Tattooine essentially, so the fourth city, and Peaches 413 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 2: has shown up in everyone and by now, because Peaches 414 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 2: does cause so much trouble, like in the first one, 415 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 2: she was like, I told those guys over there. 416 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: Where you were. 417 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 2: They look really angry, but maybe they just and so 418 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:13,959 Speaker 2: they had to go fight those dudes. 419 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 1: By now they like grown or Yeah. 420 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 3: I was gonna say, she's gotten quite a reputation. They've 421 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 3: never met my dog, but she's got a reputation, and 422 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 3: which I say, I want her to be a lovable 423 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 3: dog and she doesn't mean to cause these mischiefs. 424 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: It just doesn't happens to be. 425 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 2: I did toy with the idea that she would be 426 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 2: the big bad at the end, but I've dismissed it. Yeah, 427 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 2: they've turned it into a verb peaches mcfuzzing something, which 428 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 2: means to mess something up. 429 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so that's about again. I could go on 430 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: and on it. 431 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 2: Right, they forgot what was in their bag of holding 432 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 2: and oh that something they made me roll for it. 433 00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, So thank you for sharing with me, because 434 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 3: again I was like, yeah, let's just do something fun 435 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 3: because we're pretty heavy duty with our stuff lately, and 436 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 3: this was a good way of talking about gaming. And 437 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 3: as we're coming towards end the pandemic, we know we're 438 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 3: going to do a little more face to face stuff. 439 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 3: And though this is a face to face thing, this 440 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 3: has been a nice distraction, I think for you and 441 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 3: for others to be able to do this over video 442 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 3: conferencing and all that. So I wanted to talk about 443 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 3: it and follow up again because I think people love 444 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 3: hearing what's going on in these make believe worlds that 445 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 3: I know nothing. 446 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: About obviously you should guess. 447 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 3: But yeah, and obviously a world that I don't know 448 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 3: much about and involving such a huge I mean, the 449 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 3: D and D is probably one of the most popular 450 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 3: games of all time essentially, and it's it's able to 451 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 3: connect a lot of people, like you talk about how 452 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 3: people work at work there some of their trauma, and 453 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 3: you've talked about the fact that you know, maybe some 454 00:22:54,840 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 3: daddy issues made the thing and able to like find 455 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 3: the ending to your characters whatever in books. This is 456 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 3: an amazing outlet, So thank you for sharing that with us. 457 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: Thank you for letting me talk about it. 458 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 2: I do think as we were having this discussion, I 459 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,959 Speaker 2: realized that of the four groups of people I know 460 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 2: that played D and D, all of them have had 461 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 2: a female DM. 462 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: So I think it is having a resurgence. 463 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 2: And I do think, I know we talked about it 464 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 2: in the Susan care episode with Bridget It does these 465 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,199 Speaker 2: skills that have been traditionally seen as more like in 466 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 2: the realm of women. But I mean, even if you 467 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 2: just want to build up skills of like project planning 468 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 2: and reading people, this is for you. 469 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: That's awesome. You can do it. You can do it. 470 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm sure there will be more updates in the future, 471 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 2: but until then, listeners. If you're playing d and d Oh, 472 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 2: tell us about your character. If you're running a game, 473 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 2: tell us about your experience. We would love to hear 474 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 2: from you our emails, step Media, mom Stuff at iHeartMedia 475 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 2: dot com. You can find us on Instagram at Stuff 476 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,160 Speaker 2: I've Never Told You or on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. 477 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 2: Thanks as always for our super producer Christina, Thank you, 478 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 2: and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You. 479 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: Protection of iHeartRadio. 480 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visits iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, 481 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.