Speaker 1: This is a production of Journalista Podcast LLC and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: And as for you, my fine mighty true, I can't
Speaker 1: attend you here and now as I'd like, but just
Speaker 1: try to stay up.
Speaker 2: In my way.
Speaker 1: Just try.
Speaker 3: I don't get you mine pretty and your little dog too.
Speaker 1: That Welcome back to the Journalista Podcast. Okay, Cookie didn't
Speaker 1: have a dog. And there is no yellow brick road
Speaker 1: in Nicaragua. But there is a wicked witch and it
Speaker 1: ain't karma, it's reality. Sometimes it bites, It eventually catches
Speaker 1: up with you, no matter how fucking cool and badass
Speaker 1: you think you are, even if you're from New Orleans.
Speaker 3: So the Mexican crew is back here as usual. There's
Speaker 3: no particular story that we were in search of. We
Speaker 3: had to keep ourselves busy. We had to work our
Speaker 3: day's work to get our days past.
Speaker 1: So you just go out and look for stuff.
Speaker 3: We go out look for stuff I'd invent, you know,
Speaker 3: a trip here, a trip there. And the Mexicans were
Speaker 3: always game, they were fearless.
Speaker 2: And even Larry.
Speaker 3: Doyle, that was his favorite crew to work with because
Speaker 3: he knew he could count on these guys to do
Speaker 3: anything everything and go above and beyond because there were
Speaker 3: some crews that didn't like to do extremely dangerous stuff
Speaker 3: they did.
Speaker 2: So we go out. It was a Tuesday, and.
Speaker 3: I knew it was Marti Gras in New Orleans because
Speaker 3: the night before had spoken to some family members. In
Speaker 3: a war zone, and you're there for years, you kind
Speaker 3: of lose track of what's going on in the real world.
Speaker 2: You know, you're only in the other real world, which
Speaker 2: is war.
Speaker 3: So we're out and we met up with a platoon
Speaker 3: of Sandinistas. I think that we were in an area
Speaker 3: that Contras had been in but had since been pushed
Speaker 3: out or they had abandoned. The soldiers are talking and
Speaker 3: the Mexicans and myself we're walking ahead.
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, I hear some screaming and some arm.
Speaker 3: Flailing from one of the soldiers, saying stop, stop, stop,
Speaker 3: don't take another step, don't move. When somebody tells you
Speaker 3: that in a warzone, you stop. You don't ask questions,
Speaker 3: you don't argue.
Speaker 2: You stop.
Speaker 3: You got to remember the crew is holding all this equipment.
Speaker 3: I'm probably at that point holding a tripod, and these
Speaker 3: things were not lightweight back then. This was heavy stuff.
Speaker 3: So we stop and we're like, why are we stopping?
Speaker 2: What's wrong?
Speaker 3: And one of the soldiers says, I hate to say this,
Speaker 3: but you're in a possible minefield, and I mean, what
Speaker 3: do you mean possible? And he says, well, sometimes the
Speaker 3: consciras leave these mines, which we found out later were
Speaker 3: Claymore mines and left over from the Vietnam War.
Speaker 1: According to the International Red Cross, during the Civil War
Speaker 1: in Nicaragua, the two sides laid over one hundred and
Speaker 1: seventy nine thousand land mines and an estimated eight hundred
Speaker 1: and forty one minefields, leaving a legacy of senseless death
Speaker 1: and human misery.
Speaker 3: Claymore minds are detonated by remote control, so someone has
Speaker 3: to be around there to set it off. But since
Speaker 3: the countures had already left, there's another way to activate
Speaker 3: these minds, and that's with tripwires. I'm not familiar with minds,
Speaker 3: whether it be detonating with a remote control or trip wires.
Speaker 3: All I know is a mine is a mine, and
Speaker 3: a mine will blow up. We're told don't move. We
Speaker 3: think we have somebody that knows the schematics of what's here.
Speaker 2: You know where you can.
Speaker 3: Step, but he's not here. Now and we have to
Speaker 3: find it so again. And it's you know, the middle
Speaker 3: of the day. The sun is beating down because it's
Speaker 3: an open field, and I'm just looking and saying to myself,
Speaker 3: here you go again, your stupid bitch. You're in a
Speaker 3: situation you can't get out of by your charm.
Speaker 2: By bullshitting. I could be New Orleans right.
Speaker 3: Now at Marti Gras, but here I am yet in
Speaker 3: another fix, in another problem.
Speaker 1: What's your problem?
Speaker 4: My problem is I don't want a thousand steel balls
Speaker 4: to shread my genitals.
Speaker 3: Uh, Claymore mind full of steel balls that fly one
Speaker 3: thousand meters or one click a second right.
Speaker 1: At dick levels easy for peace or ass level, which
Speaker 1: in your case would also take off your head. That
Speaker 1: was a clip from the FX show Archer explaining exactly
Speaker 1: the kind of damage a Claymore Mind can do to
Speaker 1: the human body.
Speaker 2: It had a happy ending.
Speaker 3: The guy came that was familiar with the area and
Speaker 3: he taught us, screaming at us what to do to
Speaker 3: look for the trip wire because it wasn't the fear
Speaker 3: of a remote control because there were no contras there
Speaker 3: and the contiras had been using these Claymore minds. I
Speaker 3: think that even used it in the Capitol killed a
Speaker 3: busload of civilians, so we were able to disarm another
Speaker 3: of them to walk out of that field and get away.
Speaker 1: So they were instructing you how to how to.
Speaker 3: Find the trip wires because the trip wives aren't obvious,
Speaker 3: so you.
Speaker 1: Had to find the trip wires, disarm the mind.
Speaker 3: Well, cut the trip wire, and then disarming the mine
Speaker 3: wasn't a big deal because that was only if it
Speaker 3: was going to be remote controls.
Speaker 1: Still is fucking scary.
Speaker 3: It is scary, and I never looked at an open
Speaker 3: field the same way.
Speaker 2: Again.
Speaker 1: I mean, how many times have you watched a movie
Speaker 1: or a show where people are stuck in a minefield
Speaker 1: and inevitably someone's going.
Speaker 3: Up and you don't know if you've already set off
Speaker 3: the wire. You know you'll hear a click or something.
Speaker 2: I didn't know.
Speaker 3: That, but that was the day I got my education
Speaker 3: in mind.
Speaker 1: I'm sure at that moment, Bourbon Street looked pretty good.
Speaker 2: It sure did.
Speaker 3: And I remember getting back to the hotel and calling
Speaker 3: some family and friends and saying, you'll never believe what
Speaker 3: my Mardi Gras was like, and they never I have
Speaker 3: these stories and they just sound so unbelievable, but they're
Speaker 3: all true.
Speaker 1: But you're in a war zone. This is what happens.
Speaker 1: This is not unusual in a war zone.
Speaker 2: No it's not.
Speaker 3: But when it happens to you for the first time,
Speaker 3: it's like, damn shit, what have I gotten myself into?
Speaker 2: Yet again?
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course you could have got shot on Bourbon
Speaker 1: Street too. Absolutely, we often talk about how you often
Speaker 1: became the story.
Speaker 3: That was one of the tips Mike gave me early on.
Speaker 3: Never be the story. Just cover the story. It didn't
Speaker 3: happen just that one time. It happened several times.
Speaker 1: There was one event where you absolutely were the story.
Speaker 1: There was this attack on the airport in Monagua, and
Speaker 1: you were all up in the middle of that. Shit,
Speaker 1: why were you there?
Speaker 3: I had this thing, and you know by now from
Speaker 3: several episodes that I always liked taking care of my boys,
Speaker 3: and one of the things I loved doing was going
Speaker 3: personally to the airport to pick up Cruise and their
Speaker 3: equipment or anyone that was coming in to do a story.
Speaker 2: And I also liked dropping them off.
Speaker 3: Even though drop off time and departure times in Nicaragua
Speaker 3: were before the crack of dawn.
Speaker 2: I was doing something that no one does. Now everyone does.
Speaker 3: I used to go out in my pajamas, whether it
Speaker 3: be regular pajamas or Victoria's secret nightgowns, and my mother
Speaker 3: always told me that's going to get you in trouble
Speaker 3: one day.
Speaker 2: So this one.
Speaker 3: Particular morning, I'm taking the Mexican crew, Roberto Pineda and
Speaker 3: Jime Robliz. They've done their six week stint in Nicaragua.
Speaker 3: Up until that point, Cruise would check in their gear
Speaker 3: like luggage I had always been done, because there was
Speaker 3: always so much of it, and of course the networks
Speaker 3: didn't particularly like to have to pay for an extra
Speaker 3: seat to put the camera and the recorder on a flight.
Speaker 3: So we get there, I'm wearing my Victoria's secret Nike,
Speaker 3: thinking it's going to be business as usual. Dropping off
Speaker 3: the crew. We were inside the terminal somehow or another.
Speaker 3: I would always be allowed to go all the way in,
Speaker 3: you know, to check in the crew and their gear,
Speaker 3: even though there'd always be a Sandinista soldier telling me
Speaker 3: you can't go in, and of course I would go
Speaker 3: in this particular time, I think the sun was just
Speaker 3: starting to rise.
Speaker 2: The crew's checked in. The gears checked in.
Speaker 3: I think and Roberto each had a camera, a still
Speaker 3: camera which they always carried around.
Speaker 2: We're waiting because I'd.
Speaker 3: Always wait until they would get on the flight and
Speaker 3: take off. All of a sudden, we heard a bombing.
Speaker 3: We thought it was inside of the airport. We're thinking bombs.
Speaker 3: The soldiers in the airport are not letting anyone.
Speaker 2: In or out.
Speaker 3: We know this is a because this is an attack
Speaker 3: in the city, in the capitol, which was very, very unusual,
Speaker 3: and it's the airport. What we did not know was
Speaker 3: that a Contra pilot in his small Cessna airplane was
Speaker 3: going to fly in and bomb the airport. The Sandinistas
Speaker 3: had anti aircraft soldiers in their trenches, but since nothing
Speaker 3: had ever happened before in the city, they were sleeping.
Speaker 3: We think we're under attack. We obviously want to get out.
Speaker 3: We want to film. We can't get our gear at
Speaker 3: this point, but if we can get out of the terminal,
Speaker 3: we can get local gear from the local TV station.
Speaker 3: At this point, journalists, everyone that was based in Monagua,
Speaker 3: they're already at the airport outside, but they're not being
Speaker 3: allowed in either. Everyone thinks the airport's under attack, it's
Speaker 3: under siege. We're going to be killed, and like idiots,
Speaker 3: the soldier aren't letting us out.
Speaker 2: Everyone stays in.
Speaker 3: We were stuck in there, I would say two maybe
Speaker 3: three hours before we started to gather some information. I
Speaker 3: would talk it to some of the soldiers that I
Speaker 3: already knew what happened were we bombed, and I was
Speaker 3: told what they thought had happened. I have now managed
Speaker 3: to get the crew and myself not outside of the airport,
Speaker 3: but outside on the armat, which is where the destruction was.
Speaker 3: And at first you really couldn't tell were they shot down.
Speaker 2: Was this guy shut down.
Speaker 3: Or as the cameraman Roberto Pineda said, this guy got
Speaker 3: caught in a wire. This pilot, who was from Nicaragua
Speaker 3: and knew the layout of the airport somehow lost control
Speaker 3: of the plane. The plane got caught up in a wire,
Speaker 3: whether it was you know, electrical wire, but wire, which
Speaker 3: was the first.
Speaker 2: Boom that we've heard.
Speaker 3: Then the wire projected him against the airport building itself.
Speaker 3: All of this is outside, it's not inside, but we
Speaker 3: don't know that. We don't know what's going on.
Speaker 2: But what did.
Speaker 3: Happen is when that plane hit the terminal on the outside,
Speaker 3: it blew up pieces of body all over. Well, at
Speaker 3: this point, we don't have gear, we don't have cameras,
Speaker 3: but we got the still cameras, so we start taking
Speaker 3: turns using one camera, only.
Speaker 2: Still camera to take pictures.
Speaker 3: Remember I've said this before, airplane crashes, helicopter crashes, horrible
Speaker 3: stories to cover Krispy critters. You're burned to death, pieces
Speaker 3: of bodies strewn about. And I remembered when it was
Speaker 3: my turn to start taking the pictures and we're the
Speaker 3: only ones in there taking these pictures. Roberto told me,
Speaker 3: just take the picture. Don't look at what you're taking
Speaker 3: the picture of before you take the picture.
Speaker 2: Take the picture. And I'd do it.
Speaker 3: I would feel like I was getting physically ill. We
Speaker 3: took several pictures that later made it into Newsweek magazine.
Speaker 3: Later on, the San Denistis changed the story. They said
Speaker 3: that that third explosion was the anti aircraft soldiers shooting
Speaker 3: down the plane. The funny thing is, at that point,
Speaker 3: every network, international, local, everyone wanted to interview me, and
Speaker 3: I'm wearing my pajamas. Someone handed me a blazer to
Speaker 3: put over it, and I proceeded to be interviewed that
Speaker 3: day by at least twenty to twenty five different news agencies,
Speaker 3: and the point of contention was how many explosions did
Speaker 3: you hear? Which conflicted with the amount of explosions the
Speaker 3: Sandinista government set happened. Obviously, the US embassy was happy
Speaker 3: with my version. The Sandinista government wanted their version to
Speaker 3: be the official version.
Speaker 1: The New York Times wrote this about the airport attack.
Speaker 1: The next day, A.
Speaker 4: Light plane piloted by anti Sandinista exiles bombed Monagua's main
Speaker 4: air base and international Airport today, causing heavy damage to
Speaker 4: the control tower and other airport buildings. Responsibility for the
Speaker 4: attack was claimed in neighboring Costa Rica by the Revolutionary
Speaker 4: Democratic Alliance under the leadership of Eden Pastora, the former
Speaker 4: Sandinista deputy Defense Minister. The Nicaraguan government said the plane,
Speaker 4: described as a twin engine propeller driven Cesna, was hit
Speaker 4: by anti aircraft fire and crashed into the airport control tower.
Speaker 4: According to the Foreign Ministry, the attack, aircraft and bombs
Speaker 4: were handed over to the counter revolutionaries as part of
Speaker 4: assistance given by the US government via the Central Intelligence
Speaker 4: Agency to these forces.
Speaker 2: Never happened, Never happened.
Speaker 1: I love the fact that spin is always a part
Speaker 1: of these stories.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Remember the propaganda machine was twenty four seven full force.
Speaker 1: The Sandinistas couldn't afford to look bad.
Speaker 3: Well, they could ford to look like, yeah, we have
Speaker 3: any aircraft soldiers, but they were sleeping. Why the fuck
Speaker 3: do you have any aircraft soldiers if they're sleeping. If
Speaker 3: they had been away, that play would have never made
Speaker 3: it as close to the airport as it did.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think also in terms of being in a war,
Speaker 1: you don't want your enemy to think you can just
Speaker 1: show up and blow up your airport.
Speaker 2: Correct, you know, to know a weakness that you have.
Speaker 3: I think that they even went so far as to
Speaker 3: honor these sleeping any aircraft soldiers because they are the
Speaker 3: ones that shot down the plane.
Speaker 1: Oh, they got medals for Spra.
Speaker 2: They got medals.
Speaker 3: They were paraded about as having saved the airport in
Speaker 3: Managua and saved lives, because no one was killed that day,
Speaker 3: miraculously except that pilot.
Speaker 1: Sandinista Defense Minister Humberto Ortega said the use of a
Speaker 1: plane from Costa Rica shows the disrespect the CIA has
Speaker 1: for that country, which surely has been carrying out operator
Speaker 1: behind the backs of that country's authorities.
Speaker 3: It didn't make me stop wearing my pajamas to go
Speaker 3: out after that, But it was a scary day. I
Speaker 3: thought that day we were going to be blown to
Speaker 3: bits because we didn't know how many planes would flown in,
Speaker 3: We didn't know how many bombs were going to be dropped.
Speaker 3: It was a scary, scary morning.
Speaker 1: It's funny, it just sounds like another Third world fucked
Speaker 1: up attack. Yeah, so Cookie survived aerial bombing, mortars, minefields,
Speaker 1: helicopter crashes, even been shot at on several occasions. She's
Speaker 1: clearly indestructible. Coming up, Cookie finds her kryptonite. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back. Welcome back our rat fampin and it's dragged.
Speaker 1: Have you ever been at a punk concert and thought
Speaker 1: that mash pit looks like fund after all the shit
Speaker 1: Cookies been through. It might just be an excited crowd
Speaker 1: that kills her. So tell me the scariest thing that
Speaker 1: ever happened to you as a journalist.
Speaker 3: It's funny because most people would think, you know, getting
Speaker 3: shot down in a helicopter, running through mine fields, mortars,
Speaker 3: It wasn't any of those things. It was one July
Speaker 3: nineteenth and a versary of the revolution. Everyone was given
Speaker 3: off work. People were given a stipend to be busted
Speaker 3: in to the main plaza in downtown Monagua that had
Speaker 3: been destroyed by the earthquake in seventy two. They would
Speaker 3: set up, you know, a huge stage. There would be
Speaker 3: dignitaries that would come in, different dignitaries at different times,
Speaker 3: you know, Castro would come in.
Speaker 2: Different people.
Speaker 1: This is actually the same day Cookie had a religious
Speaker 1: experience with Mother Teresa.
Speaker 3: The populace is being bust in. They had seating on
Speaker 3: the stage behind the speaker's podium, dignitaries in front of
Speaker 3: the stage there were lesser dignitaries. Then there was press.
Speaker 3: There were no press boxes or press booths. It's all
Speaker 3: very third world. And then obviously all the people being
Speaker 3: busted in, so we were set up somewhere in the
Speaker 3: middle of the whole thing. Other speakers come to the podium,
Speaker 3: they're giving their speeches, people are clapping, cheering.
Speaker 1: How many people were there, I would.
Speaker 3: Say maybe one hundred thousand. I'm not good with figures,
Speaker 3: but the plaza was full. And this was a big
Speaker 3: plaza when Ortega finally takes the podium. He starts to
Speaker 3: give his speech, and the crowd starts to get very
Speaker 3: riled up. Here's their fearless leader, El Presidente. Somehow or another,
Speaker 3: the crowd started moving towards the stage to the area.
Speaker 2: Where ortegas give the speech.
Speaker 3: The crowd starts moving a little more aggressively, a little harder.
Speaker 3: The next thing I know, I'm separated from the camera crew.
Speaker 3: I'm by myself and I fall, and when I fall,
Speaker 3: I have nobody to reach out for because the camera
Speaker 3: crew had their equipment, and of course they're trying to
Speaker 3: save their equipment as well, and I'm starting to be
Speaker 3: trampled upon.
Speaker 2: People are screaming.
Speaker 3: They don't realize I'm on the ground, and if they did,
Speaker 3: they didn't care because they are also falling and being trampled.
Speaker 3: The one main thing that had saved me throughout all
Speaker 3: these war years was my loud voice.
Speaker 2: It was a plus for several reasons.
Speaker 3: One of them, if we would be in a big
Speaker 3: stadium or a big convention center, questions needed to be
Speaker 3: thrown out. Even some of the other journalists would say, cookie,
Speaker 3: can you ask such and such a question? Can you
Speaker 3: ask these questions. Because I was loud, I could always
Speaker 3: be heard. So I realized at this point, I am
Speaker 3: going to die. I am going to die, and no
Speaker 3: one's even going to know it.
Speaker 2: It's now or nothing.
Speaker 3: I have to start screaming now. Remember I can't hardly breathe.
Speaker 3: I mustered up all the strength that I had and
Speaker 3: started to scream out to Ortega. And I'm screaming, President Ortega,
Speaker 3: Presidente Ortega, it's Cookie.
Speaker 2: I'm dying. I'm dying.
Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden, I could hear Ortega
Speaker 3: over the loudspeaker saying to please settle down, to the crowd,
Speaker 3: be quiet. I hear something. He knew my voice already.
Speaker 3: I kept screaming, help me, help me. He told the
Speaker 3: crowd stop moving, be quiet. Someone is in trouble. One
Speaker 3: of the journalists is in trouble. Cookie is in trouble.
Speaker 3: I could hear him say to State Security and to
Speaker 3: Nicaraguan journalists, try to find Cookie.
Speaker 2: Try to find Cookie. She's on the ground somewhere.
Speaker 1: So he is interrupting his speech.
Speaker 2: The speech is interrupted.
Speaker 1: Is the crowd quieting?
Speaker 2: The crowd is quieting.
Speaker 3: The crowd has stopped surging because here's the fearless leader
Speaker 3: telling them what to do. He saved my life. Someone
Speaker 3: found me, they lifted me up. I got picked up,
Speaker 3: brought together back with my crew, and then just continued
Speaker 3: business as usual. He picked up on his speech where
Speaker 3: he had left off after making sure that I was okay.
Speaker 1: Did you ever speak to him after that about it?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Never did.
Speaker 1: It's so crazy.
Speaker 2: Never did.
Speaker 1: Was it like one of those moments when you're at
Speaker 1: a rock concert and the band comes out, everybody starts
Speaker 1: pushing toward the front.
Speaker 3: It was like that, but the end result was more
Speaker 3: like the soccer matches Melas when the crowd is just
Speaker 3: out of control and there's no stopping them.
Speaker 2: There's no one yelling that would have the control.
Speaker 3: Over the crowd to tell and people get trampled and
Speaker 3: people die.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but no one died that day.
Speaker 1: Cookie avoids death by trampling because of her loud mouth.
Speaker 1: But now she faces her biggest rival, the United States
Speaker 1: of America, and they are coming for her.
Speaker 3: Rumor had it that there was a list in Washington
Speaker 3: of journalists that the administration deemed, you know, not friendly
Speaker 3: to what was going on. I was told I was
Speaker 3: on that list, was to try to blackball or discredit
Speaker 3: some journalists that were deemed problematic for our government at
Speaker 3: the time. They did not like the coverage that CBS
Speaker 3: was giving.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what did they call CBS?
Speaker 3: The Communist Broadcasting Service speaks for itself. It wasn't because
Speaker 3: of that. We were not pro COMMI, pro socialists. We
Speaker 3: were simply anti Reagan. A lot of us didn't know
Speaker 3: was that Reagan was already suffering from a form of
Speaker 3: dementia alzheim.
Speaker 1: Who knows, but give him credit. The man could stand
Speaker 1: in front of a microphone and put on a show.
Speaker 1: He was good at the tame.
Speaker 2: He was an actor.
Speaker 5: There's another regional conflict that has serious implications for our
Speaker 5: country security interest Nicaragua. Our policy consistently has been to
Speaker 5: bring peace and freedom to all of Central America. Today,
Speaker 5: four of the five Central American countries choose their governments
Speaker 5: in free and open democratic elections. One country, Nicaragua, with
Speaker 5: its communist regime, remains a threat for this democratic tide
Speaker 5: in the region. So our message to the people of
Speaker 5: Nicaragua tonight is the same as it has been for
Speaker 5: the past seven years. Freedom based on true democratic principles.
Speaker 3: What we didn't know the person that was pulling the
Speaker 3: strings was his VP, George HW. You have to understand
Speaker 3: George HW was the head of the CIA.
Speaker 1: Bush was appointed CIA Director by President Gerald Ford in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six. He'd been in Congress, men from Texas,
Speaker 1: special envoy to China under Nixon, an ambassador to the
Speaker 1: United Nations. One hell of a resume, according to CIA
Speaker 1: dot gov. His tenure at the CIA lasted just short
Speaker 1: of a year, but he's credited with restoring the credibility
Speaker 1: and morale of the agency, leading reforms that earned the
Speaker 1: respect of both political parties. So when he became Vice
Speaker 1: president under Reagan, he was probably the most experienced person
Speaker 1: to ever hold that position, and he already knew where
Speaker 1: all the bodies were buried.
Speaker 3: This is a brilliant guy, and I'm not detracting from
Speaker 3: Reagan's intelligence, but by this time he was compromised mentally.
Speaker 3: Nobody knew that because Nancy and George H. W were
Speaker 3: running the show, they came after us.
Speaker 1: So do you think the Reagan administration was onto you?
Speaker 2: We didn't even know what we were onto yet.
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you about something that I
Speaker 1: found just researching your life. As you know, it's hard
Speaker 1: to find things because one your cookie hood. You're not
Speaker 1: Courtney hood to me.
Speaker 2: And I was always on the DL.
Speaker 1: For obvious reasons. Yeah, but I found a couple of
Speaker 1: articles that are totally trashing not only you, but other
Speaker 1: women who were working in the CBS office in Managua.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what in the business we called hit pieces,
Speaker 3: where out of the blue character assassination articles would be written.
Speaker 3: We did not realize it. A wannabe shows up in Nicarai.
Speaker 3: We're trying to pass himself off as a left leaning
Speaker 3: journalist from Maryland or Virginia for a little known I
Speaker 3: don't know if he told us it was a newspaper
Speaker 3: or a magazine.
Speaker 2: I can't even remember.
Speaker 3: And unbeknownst to all of us, he was a plant
Speaker 3: sent in by the US government, right wing publication. Let's
Speaker 3: go blow the whistle on these kami journalists working against
Speaker 3: us in in America. He ingratiated himself with a bunch
Speaker 3: of us, you know, hung out with us, went on
Speaker 3: junkets with us, not into the jungles, because he was
Speaker 3: obviously a coward and not a real journalist, would hang
Speaker 3: out at our get together as our parties and avail
Speaker 3: himself of anything that myself and other journalists could help
Speaker 3: him with. I go on a vacation, a really really
Speaker 3: necessary R and R with Domingo and Azis, my other
Speaker 3: favorite camera crew, and we were in Mexico. I get
Speaker 3: a call from CBS New York. Now they knew I
Speaker 3: was on vacation. That's the big boys, that's the big boys.
Speaker 3: They knew I was on vacation, so them calling me
Speaker 3: was a big deal. So I got a little nervous,
Speaker 3: as did Domingo and Asi's because you never know what's
Speaker 3: going on. I get this call from the Foreign desk
Speaker 3: in New York telling me that I was on page
Speaker 3: six of the New York Post.
Speaker 1: Over the last forty years, page six has ruled the
Speaker 1: world of gossip about the famous, and the powerful and
Speaker 1: the notorious. Being mentioned there can make you or break you.
Speaker 2: Page six.
Speaker 3: They trying to reach me for comment on a story
Speaker 3: that was just published in Washington, but they can't reach
Speaker 3: me because I'm too busy vacationing in Acapulca. So it
Speaker 3: just made it sound like cavalier cavalier, I'm on vacation.
Speaker 3: She's not a war correspondent. So here I am on
Speaker 3: page six and I'm like, for what it was making
Speaker 3: reference to an article that had been written for a
Speaker 3: right wing publication that was I think actually even just
Speaker 3: made up and made up for this one article.
Speaker 2: I think you know the name of the publication.
Speaker 1: The National Interest Magazine. The article was entitled Reporting Nicaragua,
Speaker 1: written by Gary Moore, wrote this about our press conference
Speaker 1: he attended given by Humberta Ortega, Santinista defense Minister.
Speaker 6: Just in front of me sat Courtney cookie Hood, Monogua
Speaker 6: bureau producer for CBS News. Surrounded by the trappings of
Speaker 6: military might, she rose from her chair and began to
Speaker 6: weave back and forth to the music to dance a
Speaker 6: little to boogie. As the producer danced, she raised her
Speaker 6: hand in the air, saying loudly with apparent exultation, you know,
Speaker 6: this is the youngest government that's ever been in power.
Speaker 6: It's our generation that's running this government. While waiting for
Speaker 6: Artega's arrival in the hall, the reporters were entertained with
Speaker 6: rock music from the nineteen sixties and with cookie Hood's
Speaker 6: impromptu dance and tribute to the Sandinista regime.
Speaker 1: In another hit piece in the right wing newsletter The
Speaker 1: Aim Report, writer Daniel James estimated that ninety percent of
Speaker 1: the US media were Sandinisa sympathizers and described the methods
Speaker 1: used by the Sandinisis to cultivate these reporters, including the
Speaker 1: use of sex. I even recall there was a specific
Speaker 1: reference that some housekeeper had said that you were entertaining
Speaker 1: the Minister of the Interior.
Speaker 2: In my private hotel room, and.
Speaker 1: Then quoted you was saying, yeah, it was always weird
Speaker 1: when he was sneaking in with.
Speaker 3: His bodyguards and everything, and that I would dance on
Speaker 3: the tables of the offices.
Speaker 1: And all that was bullshit.
Speaker 2: It was all a lie.
Speaker 3: And I get a call from New York CBS New
Speaker 3: York Foreign Desk saying your vacation is over. We need
Speaker 3: you to fly in right away. We've got a problem.
Speaker 1: So the shit has hit the fan. The accusations are
Speaker 1: flying fast and furious. The big question is is she
Speaker 1: sleeping with Santainista generals and politicians to get all these
Speaker 1: amazing stories that have made her such a threat to
Speaker 1: the Reagan administration. Cookies in trouble, big trouble. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back. Welcome back. Cookie thinks she's heading to another
Speaker 1: firing squad, but this time it's in front of the
Speaker 1: big whigs at CBS. But first, let's meet the Sandinista
Speaker 1: man at the center of all the accusations. Minister of
Speaker 1: the Interior to Moss Borge. In his obituary, The Guardian
Speaker 1: wrote this to Moss Borge was one of the founders
Speaker 1: of the Sandinista guerrilla movement that overthrew the Samosa family
Speaker 1: dictatorship in Nicaragua. Revered by his followers, hated and feared
Speaker 1: by his opponents, Borgey embodied many of the contradictions at
Speaker 1: the heart of the Sandinista Revolution. A skilled poet and writer,
Speaker 1: he was capable of attaining great lyrical and emotional heights
Speaker 1: even while penning what was essentially propaganda. As Interior Minister
Speaker 1: and secret police chief in the Sandinista government, he could
Speaker 1: appear cynical and ruthless, as implacable with his enemies as
Speaker 1: he was self sacrificing in the cause for which he
Speaker 1: several times came close to giving his life.
Speaker 2: We were friends, we were acquaintances.
Speaker 3: I don't think that I ever really realized or thought
Speaker 3: about how ruthless and cold blooded these guys were. They
Speaker 3: were completely and one hundred percent capable of torture, killing,
Speaker 3: slow death, the worst of the worst.
Speaker 1: And he was in charge of all of that, all
Speaker 1: of it. He's a scary motherfucker.
Speaker 2: He's a scary motherfucker.
Speaker 1: Had you known him prior.
Speaker 3: I knew him when they overthrew the Samosa regime and
Speaker 3: he became one of the nine comandante's in charge.
Speaker 1: He genuinely liked you.
Speaker 3: He did because I was pretty, I was fun. He
Speaker 3: was not a very good looking man. He was short,
Speaker 3: he was stocky, he was ugly. Still did well with
Speaker 3: the ladies because of He was very, very very powerful.
Speaker 1: If you remember back in episode five down in Dirty
Speaker 1: Borge had the hots for Jane Wallace, Center flowers and everything.
Speaker 3: We just enjoyed what each of us represented to the other.
Speaker 3: He represented inside scoop. Powerful pretty girl with power in
Speaker 3: the news business was probably very attractive to him as well.
Speaker 1: And they had to know that you were a left
Speaker 1: leaning journalist.
Speaker 3: They knew, as were most of the journalists based in Nicaragua.
Speaker 3: I hate to say it, and I'm sure that many
Speaker 3: of us don't even want to admit it now, but we.
Speaker 2: Were all leaning left.
Speaker 3: Not that we were socialists, not that we were communists,
Speaker 3: but we were more humanists. I always remember saying.
Speaker 1: So you're getting these stories, You're getting a lot of
Speaker 1: inside information from him and other people.
Speaker 2: You're getting dibbs, You're getting of the best.
Speaker 1: That's right, of the best.
Speaker 3: Remember I told you a little while back. Everybody was
Speaker 3: a contact for me, from the gardener to the prostitute
Speaker 3: to the president. Everyone was a contact for me. And
Speaker 3: I always found behind every story there was true, some truth.
Speaker 3: It could be a bullshit story, but there was some
Speaker 3: truth to it.
Speaker 1: Why was he so willing to give you leads? And
Speaker 1: because he.
Speaker 3: Knew that I'd put it out there. I put the
Speaker 3: story out there.
Speaker 1: Did he think you would be fair?
Speaker 2: He thought I'd be fair.
Speaker 3: He might have just been using me one hundred percent
Speaker 3: like I used him and many others. Sort of scratch
Speaker 3: my back, I'll scratch your back.
Speaker 1: Did you ever party with him in any way?
Speaker 3: Not really, not drugs or anything. Cocktails, yeah, but no,
Speaker 3: not drugs.
Speaker 1: Was he the kind of guy that you could have
Speaker 1: a drink with?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Was he fine in those situations?
Speaker 2: He was interesting, not fun.
Speaker 3: He wasn't a fun guy, but he was interesting, and
Speaker 3: the fact that he found me completely enthralling that I
Speaker 3: was a journalist, also that I came from the elite
Speaker 3: part of society that he probably never really had an
Speaker 3: entrance into.
Speaker 2: I think I was intriguing to him.
Speaker 1: He probably knew everything about you.
Speaker 3: That absolutely I found out later there was a big,
Speaker 3: big file on me.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I would like to have seen that.
Speaker 2: I would too, I would have liked to have seen
Speaker 2: that as well.
Speaker 1: So he became a source for you.
Speaker 3: He did, And I don't think he was a source
Speaker 3: for many people because of what he did, but he
Speaker 3: became a source for me.
Speaker 2: He liked me immediately. I liked him.
Speaker 3: He was a very kind of flirty, dirty old man
Speaker 3: kind of thing, which I was well versed in that language.
Speaker 3: We just hit it off, you know, got to know
Speaker 3: each other. I think he gave me his card, told me,
Speaker 3: you ever need anything, you call me. I'm thinking in
Speaker 3: terms of if I ever get arrested or do something bad,
Speaker 3: but he meant it in the terms of, you know,
Speaker 3: if I can ever help you in a story.
Speaker 2: I'm available.
Speaker 1: And did that happen?
Speaker 3: Both things happened in different levels. I would get calls
Speaker 3: from his people alerting me to maybe go track this
Speaker 3: thing down or go look at to this person, sort
Speaker 3: of breadcrumbs leading me to a bigger story without telling
Speaker 3: me what that story was.
Speaker 1: And why do you think he chose you for that?
Speaker 2: I'm not sure.
Speaker 3: Maybe he found I don't want to say, a kindred spirit,
Speaker 3: but maybe he found someone that could quite possibly be
Speaker 3: open minded to what he was selling. I don't want
Speaker 3: to say a comrade, because I'm a journalist. I'm not
Speaker 3: supposed to be anybody's comrade.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Maybe he just felt that I would be somebody that
Speaker 3: could be helpful, and that he could be helpful too.
Speaker 3: I'm sort of not ashamed, but a little embarrassed about
Speaker 3: that I would help them.
Speaker 1: So you find out down the road that he was
Speaker 1: more involved in your life than you thought, looking out
Speaker 1: for you, protecting.
Speaker 6: You, right.
Speaker 2: I found that out years later.
Speaker 1: I find that fascinating.
Speaker 3: I found out that on every junket that I ever
Speaker 3: made out of the city, any dangerous near death situations
Speaker 3: that I found myself in, I did not know at
Speaker 3: the time, but he always had one or two guys
Speaker 3: whose job was you die before she gets a scratch,
Speaker 3: not just when I would leave the city in search
Speaker 3: of Bang Bang or the war, but also in the city,
Speaker 3: he always made sure that I was safe.
Speaker 1: That's crazy. Rookie and Timos boor Hey were friends that
Speaker 1: needed each other. But did she have sex with him
Speaker 1: to get her stories? Let's find out.
Speaker 2: I get this call.
Speaker 3: It's from one of the old guard, old school tough journalists,
Speaker 3: David Bucks Bob. Anybody at CBS from that era knew
Speaker 3: exactly who Bucks was.
Speaker 2: He was of the ilk of.
Speaker 3: Cronkite Morrow, and this was a kind of guy that
Speaker 3: still referred to women as Broad's and he wasn't always
Speaker 3: very keen on women.
Speaker 2: But I had met him a few times and he
Speaker 2: liked me.
Speaker 3: He's calling me, and he's furious. I was scared I
Speaker 3: was going to lose my job.
Speaker 1: So they call you in, So they call me in.
Speaker 3: They fly me out of Mexico. This is after the
Speaker 3: page six story hit.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's good to be on.
Speaker 3: Page six, Sometimes it's great. This time it wasn't. I
Speaker 3: explained to him exactly what had happened, that this was
Speaker 3: obviously an ambush. None of those things were true. If
Speaker 3: they had been true, he would have heard about it
Speaker 3: long ago from other journalists. Plus they knew the reputation
Speaker 3: of one of the other female journalists. I was in
Speaker 3: good company in other words, for them to believe that
Speaker 3: it was all.
Speaker 2: False, and even if there was some truth.
Speaker 3: To any of it CPS at that point, they were
Speaker 3: getting what they wanted and what they needed, which was
Speaker 3: the stories, breaking news exclusives. We were getting them and
Speaker 3: that was because of me.
Speaker 1: So did they literally look at you and say, Cookie,
Speaker 1: is this true?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And I said, there's no truth to it.
Speaker 3: I am friends with these people, but I'm not sleeping
Speaker 3: with them to get the story.
Speaker 2: I don't need to.
Speaker 3: We're friends, they're my contacts, They're in my rolodex.
Speaker 2: As soon as I set him at ease.
Speaker 3: I did not know this, but Bucks wrote a very
Speaker 3: threatening letter not only to that publication, the Right Way publication,
Speaker 3: but also to the fake wanna be journalist Gary Moore
Speaker 3: and just basically cease and desist.
Speaker 2: Stop all of this.
Speaker 3: We want a retraction and if there is none, you
Speaker 3: will have the wrath and the power that is CBS
Speaker 3: on your ass.
Speaker 1: Bucksbom wrote this to Irving Crystal, the editor of the
Speaker 1: National Interest magazine, the man behind the bullshit smear on
Speaker 1: Cookie and the women of CBS Monagua.
Speaker 7: Dear mister Crystal, an article in the current summer issue
Speaker 7: by freelance writer Gary Moore, deals with issues of journalistic
Speaker 7: access to the news. In addition to a number of
Speaker 7: faulty assumptions, it contains a series of allegations and innuendos
Speaker 7: about the conduct of CBS News personnel working in Nicaragua.
Speaker 7: Our investigation of the substance of those allegations and innuendos
Speaker 7: has convinced us that they are false. In addition to falsity,
Speaker 7: they have every appearance being malicious, an unjustifiable attempt to
Speaker 7: taint both the professional reputations and the personal lives of
Speaker 7: responsible news journalists. Your writer and your magazine owe them
Speaker 7: an apology. Sincerely, David Bucksbaum, CBS News, Vice President News
Speaker 7: Coverage and Operations.
Speaker 1: Basically, cease and assist, fuck around and find out. Esquire
Speaker 1: Magazine called Irving Crystal the godfather of the most powerful
Speaker 1: new political force in America, neo Conservatism. George W. Bush
Speaker 1: awarded him the Presidential Medal of Freedom. You might know
Speaker 1: his son, Bill Crystal, neo Conservative founder of The Weekly
Speaker 1: Standard and now editor at large of the bulwark and
Speaker 1: popular pundit on numerous cable news programs. He held various
Speaker 1: positions in the Reagan and Bush administrations and was a
Speaker 1: leading advocate of the misguided invasion of Iraq. He's a
Speaker 1: proud Republican, but now an outspoken critic of the former
Speaker 1: President Trump.
Speaker 3: Here's Nobodies, Gary Moore and Nobody the publication, which I
Speaker 3: think was just invented to do that piece. Realize, Yeah,
Speaker 3: we fucked him. Now we're finding out they retracted it.
Speaker 3: I will forever be grateful to Bucks. I loved that man.
Speaker 3: That letter would have been as if Walter Cronkite had
Speaker 3: signed it himself. I cried, I've kept it all these years.
Speaker 3: It was a badge of honor for me. We cleared everything.
Speaker 3: He showed me the letter defending me and my honor
Speaker 3: because he was that kind of old school guy and
Speaker 3: defending the honor of CBS that we are always on
Speaker 3: the up and up, even though sometimes we weren't. But
Speaker 3: you gotta do what you gotta do to get the story.
Speaker 1: So you are saying categorically that you did not sleep
Speaker 1: with generals for.
Speaker 3: Stories or dance on tables, saying I love revolutions and No,
Speaker 3: that did not happen.
Speaker 1: I see you dancing on tables.
Speaker 2: Correct, But not for that, not for that.
Speaker 1: Cookie die a bullet. She's on top of the world,
Speaker 1: master of her domain, but there is one unstoppable enemy
Speaker 1: that's about to take her down. Someone she's been battling
Speaker 1: her whole life herself. Next time on Journalista.
Speaker 3: We were in a very remote part of the country.
Speaker 3: I was with Subsandinista soldiers. One of them realized that
Speaker 3: I'd been smoking weed. We get back to the barracks,
Speaker 3: he ratch me out. The next thing I know, the
Speaker 3: commander and I guess what they call their MPs grab
Speaker 3: me by both arms and they're going to lead me
Speaker 3: away to I don't know jail.
Speaker 1: The Journalista podcast features the stories and voice of Cookie Hood,
Speaker 1: narrated by Steven Esteb, Produced by Sean J. Donnelly, Executive
Speaker 1: producers Jason Wagensback, Roy Laughlin and Ellen k Heart. Executive
Speaker 1: producer Tyler Klang, Written and edited by Steven Esteb, Music
Speaker 1: by Jay Weigel, Associate producer in sound design Stephen Tonti,
Speaker 1: Sound mixing by Jesse Sollen Snyder. Special guests Lloyd Sherr,
Speaker 1: Stephen Tonti, and Casey Groves. Special musical appearance by Rhythm
Speaker 1: Collision with Sean J. Donnelly on drums. This is a
Speaker 1: production of Journalista podcast LLC and iHeartRadio