1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: This is a production of Journalista Podcast LLC and iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:12,039 Speaker 1: And as for you, my fine mighty true, I can't 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: attend you here and now as I'd like, but just 4 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: try to stay up. 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 2: In my way. 6 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: Just try. 7 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 3: I don't get you mine pretty and your little dog too. 8 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: That Welcome back to the Journalista Podcast. Okay, Cookie didn't 9 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: have a dog. And there is no yellow brick road 10 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: in Nicaragua. But there is a wicked witch and it 11 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: ain't karma, it's reality. Sometimes it bites, It eventually catches 12 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: up with you, no matter how fucking cool and badass 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: you think you are, even if you're from New Orleans. 14 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 3: So the Mexican crew is back here as usual. There's 15 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 3: no particular story that we were in search of. We 16 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 3: had to keep ourselves busy. We had to work our 17 00:00:58,400 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 3: day's work to get our days past. 18 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: So you just go out and look for stuff. 19 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 3: We go out look for stuff I'd invent, you know, 20 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 3: a trip here, a trip there. And the Mexicans were 21 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 3: always game, they were fearless. 22 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 2: And even Larry. 23 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 3: Doyle, that was his favorite crew to work with because 24 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 3: he knew he could count on these guys to do 25 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 3: anything everything and go above and beyond because there were 26 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 3: some crews that didn't like to do extremely dangerous stuff 27 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 3: they did. 28 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: So we go out. It was a Tuesday, and. 29 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 3: I knew it was Marti Gras in New Orleans because 30 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 3: the night before had spoken to some family members. In 31 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 3: a war zone, and you're there for years, you kind 32 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 3: of lose track of what's going on in the real world. 33 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: You know, you're only in the other real world, which 34 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 2: is war. 35 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 3: So we're out and we met up with a platoon 36 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 3: of Sandinistas. I think that we were in an area 37 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 3: that Contras had been in but had since been pushed 38 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 3: out or they had abandoned. The soldiers are talking and 39 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 3: the Mexicans and myself we're walking ahead. 40 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 2: All of a sudden, I hear some screaming and some arm. 41 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 3: Flailing from one of the soldiers, saying stop, stop, stop, 42 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 3: don't take another step, don't move. When somebody tells you 43 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 3: that in a warzone, you stop. You don't ask questions, 44 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 3: you don't argue. 45 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: You stop. 46 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 3: You got to remember the crew is holding all this equipment. 47 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 3: I'm probably at that point holding a tripod, and these 48 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 3: things were not lightweight back then. This was heavy stuff. 49 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 3: So we stop and we're like, why are we stopping? 50 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 2: What's wrong? 51 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 3: And one of the soldiers says, I hate to say this, 52 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 3: but you're in a possible minefield, and I mean, what 53 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 3: do you mean possible? And he says, well, sometimes the 54 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 3: consciras leave these mines, which we found out later were 55 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 3: Claymore mines and left over from the Vietnam War. 56 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: According to the International Red Cross, during the Civil War 57 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: in Nicaragua, the two sides laid over one hundred and 58 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: seventy nine thousand land mines and an estimated eight hundred 59 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: and forty one minefields, leaving a legacy of senseless death 60 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: and human misery. 61 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 3: Claymore minds are detonated by remote control, so someone has 62 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 3: to be around there to set it off. But since 63 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 3: the countures had already left, there's another way to activate 64 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 3: these minds, and that's with tripwires. I'm not familiar with minds, 65 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 3: whether it be detonating with a remote control or trip wires. 66 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 3: All I know is a mine is a mine, and 67 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 3: a mine will blow up. We're told don't move. We 68 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 3: think we have somebody that knows the schematics of what's here. 69 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 2: You know where you can. 70 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 3: Step, but he's not here. Now and we have to 71 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 3: find it so again. And it's you know, the middle 72 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 3: of the day. The sun is beating down because it's 73 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 3: an open field, and I'm just looking and saying to myself, 74 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 3: here you go again, your stupid bitch. You're in a 75 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 3: situation you can't get out of by your charm. 76 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: By bullshitting. I could be New Orleans right. 77 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 3: Now at Marti Gras, but here I am yet in 78 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 3: another fix, in another problem. 79 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: What's your problem? 80 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 4: My problem is I don't want a thousand steel balls 81 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 4: to shread my genitals. 82 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 3: Uh, Claymore mind full of steel balls that fly one 83 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 3: thousand meters or one click a second right. 84 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: At dick levels easy for peace or ass level, which 85 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: in your case would also take off your head. That 86 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: was a clip from the FX show Archer explaining exactly 87 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: the kind of damage a Claymore Mind can do to 88 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: the human body. 89 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:34,119 Speaker 2: It had a happy ending. 90 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 3: The guy came that was familiar with the area and 91 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 3: he taught us, screaming at us what to do to 92 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 3: look for the trip wire because it wasn't the fear 93 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 3: of a remote control because there were no contras there 94 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 3: and the contiras had been using these Claymore minds. I 95 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 3: think that even used it in the Capitol killed a 96 00:04:55,520 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 3: busload of civilians, so we were able to disarm another 97 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 3: of them to walk out of that field and get away. 98 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: So they were instructing you how to how to. 99 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 3: Find the trip wires because the trip wives aren't obvious, 100 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 3: so you. 101 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: Had to find the trip wires, disarm the mind. 102 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,679 Speaker 3: Well, cut the trip wire, and then disarming the mine 103 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 3: wasn't a big deal because that was only if it 104 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 3: was going to be remote controls. 105 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: Still is fucking scary. 106 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 3: It is scary, and I never looked at an open 107 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 3: field the same way. 108 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 2: Again. 109 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: I mean, how many times have you watched a movie 110 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: or a show where people are stuck in a minefield 111 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: and inevitably someone's going. 112 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 3: Up and you don't know if you've already set off 113 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 3: the wire. You know you'll hear a click or something. 114 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 2: I didn't know. 115 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 3: That, but that was the day I got my education 116 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 3: in mind. 117 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure at that moment, Bourbon Street looked pretty good. 118 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 2: It sure did. 119 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 3: And I remember getting back to the hotel and calling 120 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 3: some family and friends and saying, you'll never believe what 121 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 3: my Mardi Gras was like, and they never I have 122 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 3: these stories and they just sound so unbelievable, but they're 123 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 3: all true. 124 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: But you're in a war zone. This is what happens. 125 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: This is not unusual in a war zone. 126 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: No it's not. 127 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 3: But when it happens to you for the first time, 128 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 3: it's like, damn shit, what have I gotten myself into? 129 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 2: Yet again? 130 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course you could have got shot on Bourbon 131 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: Street too. Absolutely, we often talk about how you often 132 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: became the story. 133 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 3: That was one of the tips Mike gave me early on. 134 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,799 Speaker 3: Never be the story. Just cover the story. It didn't 135 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 3: happen just that one time. It happened several times. 136 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: There was one event where you absolutely were the story. 137 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: There was this attack on the airport in Monagua, and 138 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: you were all up in the middle of that. Shit, 139 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: why were you there? 140 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 3: I had this thing, and you know by now from 141 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 3: several episodes that I always liked taking care of my boys, 142 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 3: and one of the things I loved doing was going 143 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 3: personally to the airport to pick up Cruise and their 144 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 3: equipment or anyone that was coming in to do a story. 145 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,119 Speaker 2: And I also liked dropping them off. 146 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 3: Even though drop off time and departure times in Nicaragua 147 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 3: were before the crack of dawn. 148 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 2: I was doing something that no one does. Now everyone does. 149 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 3: I used to go out in my pajamas, whether it 150 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 3: be regular pajamas or Victoria's secret nightgowns, and my mother 151 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 3: always told me that's going to get you in trouble 152 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 3: one day. 153 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 2: So this one. 154 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 3: Particular morning, I'm taking the Mexican crew, Roberto Pineda and 155 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 3: Jime Robliz. They've done their six week stint in Nicaragua. 156 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 3: Up until that point, Cruise would check in their gear 157 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 3: like luggage I had always been done, because there was 158 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 3: always so much of it, and of course the networks 159 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 3: didn't particularly like to have to pay for an extra 160 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 3: seat to put the camera and the recorder on a flight. 161 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 3: So we get there, I'm wearing my Victoria's secret Nike, 162 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 3: thinking it's going to be business as usual. Dropping off 163 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 3: the crew. We were inside the terminal somehow or another. 164 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 3: I would always be allowed to go all the way in, 165 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 3: you know, to check in the crew and their gear, 166 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 3: even though there'd always be a Sandinista soldier telling me 167 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 3: you can't go in, and of course I would go 168 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 3: in this particular time, I think the sun was just 169 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 3: starting to rise. 170 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 2: The crew's checked in. The gears checked in. 171 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 3: I think and Roberto each had a camera, a still 172 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 3: camera which they always carried around. 173 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 2: We're waiting because I'd. 174 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 3: Always wait until they would get on the flight and 175 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 3: take off. All of a sudden, we heard a bombing. 176 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 3: We thought it was inside of the airport. We're thinking bombs. 177 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 3: The soldiers in the airport are not letting anyone. 178 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 2: In or out. 179 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 3: We know this is a because this is an attack 180 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 3: in the city, in the capitol, which was very, very unusual, 181 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 3: and it's the airport. What we did not know was 182 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 3: that a Contra pilot in his small Cessna airplane was 183 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 3: going to fly in and bomb the airport. The Sandinistas 184 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 3: had anti aircraft soldiers in their trenches, but since nothing 185 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 3: had ever happened before in the city, they were sleeping. 186 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 3: We think we're under attack. We obviously want to get out. 187 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 3: We want to film. We can't get our gear at 188 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 3: this point, but if we can get out of the terminal, 189 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 3: we can get local gear from the local TV station. 190 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 3: At this point, journalists, everyone that was based in Monagua, 191 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 3: they're already at the airport outside, but they're not being 192 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 3: allowed in either. Everyone thinks the airport's under attack, it's 193 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 3: under siege. We're going to be killed, and like idiots, 194 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 3: the soldier aren't letting us out. 195 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: Everyone stays in. 196 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 3: We were stuck in there, I would say two maybe 197 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 3: three hours before we started to gather some information. I 198 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 3: would talk it to some of the soldiers that I 199 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 3: already knew what happened were we bombed, and I was 200 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 3: told what they thought had happened. I have now managed 201 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 3: to get the crew and myself not outside of the airport, 202 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 3: but outside on the armat, which is where the destruction was. 203 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 3: And at first you really couldn't tell were they shot down. 204 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 2: Was this guy shut down. 205 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 3: Or as the cameraman Roberto Pineda said, this guy got 206 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 3: caught in a wire. This pilot, who was from Nicaragua 207 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 3: and knew the layout of the airport somehow lost control 208 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 3: of the plane. The plane got caught up in a wire, 209 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 3: whether it was you know, electrical wire, but wire, which 210 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 3: was the first. 211 00:10:58,440 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 2: Boom that we've heard. 212 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 3: Then the wire projected him against the airport building itself. 213 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 3: All of this is outside, it's not inside, but we 214 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 3: don't know that. We don't know what's going on. 215 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 2: But what did. 216 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 3: Happen is when that plane hit the terminal on the outside, 217 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 3: it blew up pieces of body all over. Well, at 218 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 3: this point, we don't have gear, we don't have cameras, 219 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 3: but we got the still cameras, so we start taking 220 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 3: turns using one camera, only. 221 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 2: Still camera to take pictures. 222 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 3: Remember I've said this before, airplane crashes, helicopter crashes, horrible 223 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 3: stories to cover Krispy critters. You're burned to death, pieces 224 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 3: of bodies strewn about. And I remembered when it was 225 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 3: my turn to start taking the pictures and we're the 226 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 3: only ones in there taking these pictures. Roberto told me, 227 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 3: just take the picture. Don't look at what you're taking 228 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 3: the picture of before you take the picture. 229 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 2: Take the picture. And I'd do it. 230 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 3: I would feel like I was getting physically ill. We 231 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 3: took several pictures that later made it into Newsweek magazine. 232 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 3: Later on, the San Denistis changed the story. They said 233 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 3: that that third explosion was the anti aircraft soldiers shooting 234 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 3: down the plane. The funny thing is, at that point, 235 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 3: every network, international, local, everyone wanted to interview me, and 236 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 3: I'm wearing my pajamas. Someone handed me a blazer to 237 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 3: put over it, and I proceeded to be interviewed that 238 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 3: day by at least twenty to twenty five different news agencies, 239 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 3: and the point of contention was how many explosions did 240 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 3: you hear? Which conflicted with the amount of explosions the 241 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 3: Sandinista government set happened. Obviously, the US embassy was happy 242 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 3: with my version. The Sandinista government wanted their version to 243 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 3: be the official version. 244 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: The New York Times wrote this about the airport attack. 245 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: The next day, A. 246 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 4: Light plane piloted by anti Sandinista exiles bombed Monagua's main 247 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 4: air base and international Airport today, causing heavy damage to 248 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 4: the control tower and other airport buildings. Responsibility for the 249 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 4: attack was claimed in neighboring Costa Rica by the Revolutionary 250 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 4: Democratic Alliance under the leadership of Eden Pastora, the former 251 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 4: Sandinista deputy Defense Minister. The Nicaraguan government said the plane, 252 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 4: described as a twin engine propeller driven Cesna, was hit 253 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 4: by anti aircraft fire and crashed into the airport control tower. 254 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 4: According to the Foreign Ministry, the attack, aircraft and bombs 255 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 4: were handed over to the counter revolutionaries as part of 256 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 4: assistance given by the US government via the Central Intelligence 257 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 4: Agency to these forces. 258 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 2: Never happened, Never happened. 259 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: I love the fact that spin is always a part 260 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: of these stories. 261 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 262 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 3: Remember the propaganda machine was twenty four seven full force. 263 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: The Sandinistas couldn't afford to look bad. 264 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 3: Well, they could ford to look like, yeah, we have 265 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 3: any aircraft soldiers, but they were sleeping. Why the fuck 266 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,719 Speaker 3: do you have any aircraft soldiers if they're sleeping. If 267 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 3: they had been away, that play would have never made 268 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 3: it as close to the airport as it did. 269 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think also in terms of being in a war, 270 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: you don't want your enemy to think you can just 271 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: show up and blow up your airport. 272 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 2: Correct, you know, to know a weakness that you have. 273 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 3: I think that they even went so far as to 274 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 3: honor these sleeping any aircraft soldiers because they are the 275 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 3: ones that shot down the plane. 276 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: Oh, they got medals for Spra. 277 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 2: They got medals. 278 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 3: They were paraded about as having saved the airport in 279 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 3: Managua and saved lives, because no one was killed that day, 280 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 3: miraculously except that pilot. 281 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: Sandinista Defense Minister Humberto Ortega said the use of a 282 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: plane from Costa Rica shows the disrespect the CIA has 283 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: for that country, which surely has been carrying out operator 284 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: behind the backs of that country's authorities. 285 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 3: It didn't make me stop wearing my pajamas to go 286 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 3: out after that, But it was a scary day. I 287 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 3: thought that day we were going to be blown to 288 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 3: bits because we didn't know how many planes would flown in, 289 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 3: We didn't know how many bombs were going to be dropped. 290 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 3: It was a scary, scary morning. 291 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: It's funny, it just sounds like another Third world fucked 292 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: up attack. Yeah, so Cookie survived aerial bombing, mortars, minefields, 293 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: helicopter crashes, even been shot at on several occasions. She's 294 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: clearly indestructible. Coming up, Cookie finds her kryptonite. We'll be 295 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: right back. Welcome back our rat fampin and it's dragged. 296 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: Have you ever been at a punk concert and thought 297 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: that mash pit looks like fund after all the shit 298 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: Cookies been through. It might just be an excited crowd 299 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: that kills her. So tell me the scariest thing that 300 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: ever happened to you as a journalist. 301 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 3: It's funny because most people would think, you know, getting 302 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 3: shot down in a helicopter, running through mine fields, mortars, 303 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 3: It wasn't any of those things. It was one July 304 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 3: nineteenth and a versary of the revolution. Everyone was given 305 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 3: off work. People were given a stipend to be busted 306 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 3: in to the main plaza in downtown Monagua that had 307 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 3: been destroyed by the earthquake in seventy two. They would 308 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 3: set up, you know, a huge stage. There would be 309 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 3: dignitaries that would come in, different dignitaries at different times, 310 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 3: you know, Castro would come in. 311 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 2: Different people. 312 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: This is actually the same day Cookie had a religious 313 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: experience with Mother Teresa. 314 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 3: The populace is being bust in. They had seating on 315 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 3: the stage behind the speaker's podium, dignitaries in front of 316 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 3: the stage there were lesser dignitaries. Then there was press. 317 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 3: There were no press boxes or press booths. It's all 318 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 3: very third world. And then obviously all the people being 319 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 3: busted in, so we were set up somewhere in the 320 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 3: middle of the whole thing. Other speakers come to the podium, 321 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 3: they're giving their speeches, people are clapping, cheering. 322 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: How many people were there, I would. 323 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 3: Say maybe one hundred thousand. I'm not good with figures, 324 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 3: but the plaza was full. And this was a big 325 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 3: plaza when Ortega finally takes the podium. He starts to 326 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 3: give his speech, and the crowd starts to get very 327 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 3: riled up. Here's their fearless leader, El Presidente. Somehow or another, 328 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 3: the crowd started moving towards the stage to the area. 329 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 2: Where ortegas give the speech. 330 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 3: The crowd starts moving a little more aggressively, a little harder. 331 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 3: The next thing I know, I'm separated from the camera crew. 332 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 3: I'm by myself and I fall, and when I fall, 333 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 3: I have nobody to reach out for because the camera 334 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 3: crew had their equipment, and of course they're trying to 335 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 3: save their equipment as well, and I'm starting to be 336 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 3: trampled upon. 337 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 2: People are screaming. 338 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 3: They don't realize I'm on the ground, and if they did, 339 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 3: they didn't care because they are also falling and being trampled. 340 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 3: The one main thing that had saved me throughout all 341 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 3: these war years was my loud voice. 342 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 2: It was a plus for several reasons. 343 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 3: One of them, if we would be in a big 344 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 3: stadium or a big convention center, questions needed to be 345 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 3: thrown out. Even some of the other journalists would say, cookie, 346 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 3: can you ask such and such a question? Can you 347 00:18:56,119 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 3: ask these questions. Because I was loud, I could always 348 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 3: be heard. So I realized at this point, I am 349 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 3: going to die. I am going to die, and no 350 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 3: one's even going to know it. 351 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 2: It's now or nothing. 352 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 3: I have to start screaming now. Remember I can't hardly breathe. 353 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 3: I mustered up all the strength that I had and 354 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 3: started to scream out to Ortega. And I'm screaming, President Ortega, 355 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 3: Presidente Ortega, it's Cookie. 356 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 2: I'm dying. I'm dying. 357 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden, I could hear Ortega 358 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 3: over the loudspeaker saying to please settle down, to the crowd, 359 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 3: be quiet. I hear something. He knew my voice already. 360 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 3: I kept screaming, help me, help me. He told the 361 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 3: crowd stop moving, be quiet. Someone is in trouble. One 362 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 3: of the journalists is in trouble. Cookie is in trouble. 363 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 3: I could hear him say to State Security and to 364 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 3: Nicaraguan journalists, try to find Cookie. 365 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 2: Try to find Cookie. She's on the ground somewhere. 366 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: So he is interrupting his speech. 367 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 2: The speech is interrupted. 368 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: Is the crowd quieting? 369 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 2: The crowd is quieting. 370 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 3: The crowd has stopped surging because here's the fearless leader 371 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 3: telling them what to do. He saved my life. Someone 372 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 3: found me, they lifted me up. I got picked up, 373 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 3: brought together back with my crew, and then just continued 374 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 3: business as usual. He picked up on his speech where 375 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 3: he had left off after making sure that I was okay. 376 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: Did you ever speak to him after that about it? 377 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 3: No? 378 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 2: Never did. 379 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:34,360 Speaker 1: It's so crazy. 380 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 2: Never did. 381 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: Was it like one of those moments when you're at 382 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: a rock concert and the band comes out, everybody starts 383 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 1: pushing toward the front. 384 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 3: It was like that, but the end result was more 385 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 3: like the soccer matches Melas when the crowd is just 386 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 3: out of control and there's no stopping them. 387 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 2: There's no one yelling that would have the control. 388 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 3: Over the crowd to tell and people get trampled and 389 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 3: people die. 390 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, but no one died that day. 391 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: Cookie avoids death by trampling because of her loud mouth. 392 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: But now she faces her biggest rival, the United States 393 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: of America, and they are coming for her. 394 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 3: Rumor had it that there was a list in Washington 395 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 3: of journalists that the administration deemed, you know, not friendly 396 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 3: to what was going on. I was told I was 397 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 3: on that list, was to try to blackball or discredit 398 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 3: some journalists that were deemed problematic for our government at 399 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 3: the time. They did not like the coverage that CBS 400 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 3: was giving. 401 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, what did they call CBS? 402 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 3: The Communist Broadcasting Service speaks for itself. It wasn't because 403 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 3: of that. We were not pro COMMI, pro socialists. We 404 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 3: were simply anti Reagan. A lot of us didn't know 405 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,479 Speaker 3: was that Reagan was already suffering from a form of 406 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 3: dementia alzheim. 407 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: Who knows, but give him credit. The man could stand 408 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 1: in front of a microphone and put on a show. 409 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: He was good at the tame. 410 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 2: He was an actor. 411 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 5: There's another regional conflict that has serious implications for our 412 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 5: country security interest Nicaragua. Our policy consistently has been to 413 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 5: bring peace and freedom to all of Central America. Today, 414 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 5: four of the five Central American countries choose their governments 415 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 5: in free and open democratic elections. One country, Nicaragua, with 416 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 5: its communist regime, remains a threat for this democratic tide 417 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 5: in the region. So our message to the people of 418 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 5: Nicaragua tonight is the same as it has been for 419 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 5: the past seven years. Freedom based on true democratic principles. 420 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 3: What we didn't know the person that was pulling the 421 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 3: strings was his VP, George HW. You have to understand 422 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 3: George HW was the head of the CIA. 423 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: Bush was appointed CIA Director by President Gerald Ford in 424 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six. He'd been in Congress, men from Texas, 425 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: special envoy to China under Nixon, an ambassador to the 426 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: United Nations. One hell of a resume, according to CIA 427 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: dot gov. His tenure at the CIA lasted just short 428 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: of a year, but he's credited with restoring the credibility 429 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: and morale of the agency, leading reforms that earned the 430 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: respect of both political parties. So when he became Vice 431 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: president under Reagan, he was probably the most experienced person 432 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: to ever hold that position, and he already knew where 433 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: all the bodies were buried. 434 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 3: This is a brilliant guy, and I'm not detracting from 435 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 3: Reagan's intelligence, but by this time he was compromised mentally. 436 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 3: Nobody knew that because Nancy and George H. W were 437 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 3: running the show, they came after us. 438 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: So do you think the Reagan administration was onto you? 439 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 2: We didn't even know what we were onto yet. 440 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you about something that I 441 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: found just researching your life. As you know, it's hard 442 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: to find things because one your cookie hood. You're not 443 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: Courtney hood to me. 444 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 2: And I was always on the DL. 445 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: For obvious reasons. Yeah, but I found a couple of 446 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 1: articles that are totally trashing not only you, but other 447 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: women who were working in the CBS office in Managua. 448 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: Do you remember that. 449 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what in the business we called hit pieces, 450 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 3: where out of the blue character assassination articles would be written. 451 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 3: We did not realize it. A wannabe shows up in Nicarai. 452 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 3: We're trying to pass himself off as a left leaning 453 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 3: journalist from Maryland or Virginia for a little known I 454 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 3: don't know if he told us it was a newspaper 455 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 3: or a magazine. 456 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 2: I can't even remember. 457 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 3: And unbeknownst to all of us, he was a plant 458 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 3: sent in by the US government, right wing publication. Let's 459 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 3: go blow the whistle on these kami journalists working against 460 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 3: us in in America. He ingratiated himself with a bunch 461 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,479 Speaker 3: of us, you know, hung out with us, went on 462 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 3: junkets with us, not into the jungles, because he was 463 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 3: obviously a coward and not a real journalist, would hang 464 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 3: out at our get together as our parties and avail 465 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 3: himself of anything that myself and other journalists could help 466 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 3: him with. I go on a vacation, a really really 467 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 3: necessary R and R with Domingo and Azis, my other 468 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 3: favorite camera crew, and we were in Mexico. I get 469 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 3: a call from CBS New York. Now they knew I 470 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 3: was on vacation. That's the big boys, that's the big boys. 471 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 3: They knew I was on vacation, so them calling me 472 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 3: was a big deal. So I got a little nervous, 473 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 3: as did Domingo and Asi's because you never know what's 474 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 3: going on. I get this call from the Foreign desk 475 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 3: in New York telling me that I was on page 476 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 3: six of the New York Post. 477 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 1: Over the last forty years, page six has ruled the 478 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: world of gossip about the famous, and the powerful and 479 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: the notorious. Being mentioned there can make you or break you. 480 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 2: Page six. 481 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 3: They trying to reach me for comment on a story 482 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 3: that was just published in Washington, but they can't reach 483 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 3: me because I'm too busy vacationing in Acapulca. So it 484 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 3: just made it sound like cavalier cavalier, I'm on vacation. 485 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 3: She's not a war correspondent. So here I am on 486 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 3: page six and I'm like, for what it was making 487 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 3: reference to an article that had been written for a 488 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,479 Speaker 3: right wing publication that was I think actually even just 489 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 3: made up and made up for this one article. 490 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 2: I think you know the name of the publication. 491 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: The National Interest Magazine. The article was entitled Reporting Nicaragua, 492 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: written by Gary Moore, wrote this about our press conference 493 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: he attended given by Humberta Ortega, Santinista defense Minister. 494 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 6: Just in front of me sat Courtney cookie Hood, Monogua 495 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 6: bureau producer for CBS News. Surrounded by the trappings of 496 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,239 Speaker 6: military might, she rose from her chair and began to 497 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 6: weave back and forth to the music to dance a 498 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 6: little to boogie. As the producer danced, she raised her 499 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 6: hand in the air, saying loudly with apparent exultation, you know, 500 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 6: this is the youngest government that's ever been in power. 501 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 6: It's our generation that's running this government. While waiting for 502 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 6: Artega's arrival in the hall, the reporters were entertained with 503 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,479 Speaker 6: rock music from the nineteen sixties and with cookie Hood's 504 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 6: impromptu dance and tribute to the Sandinista regime. 505 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: In another hit piece in the right wing newsletter The 506 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: Aim Report, writer Daniel James estimated that ninety percent of 507 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 1: the US media were Sandinisa sympathizers and described the methods 508 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: used by the Sandinisis to cultivate these reporters, including the 509 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: use of sex. I even recall there was a specific 510 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: reference that some housekeeper had said that you were entertaining 511 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: the Minister of the Interior. 512 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 2: In my private hotel room, and. 513 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 1: Then quoted you was saying, yeah, it was always weird 514 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: when he was sneaking in with. 515 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,239 Speaker 3: His bodyguards and everything, and that I would dance on 516 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 3: the tables of the offices. 517 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: And all that was bullshit. 518 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 2: It was all a lie. 519 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 3: And I get a call from New York CBS New 520 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 3: York Foreign Desk saying your vacation is over. We need 521 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 3: you to fly in right away. We've got a problem. 522 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: So the shit has hit the fan. The accusations are 523 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: flying fast and furious. The big question is is she 524 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: sleeping with Santainista generals and politicians to get all these 525 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: amazing stories that have made her such a threat to 526 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: the Reagan administration. Cookies in trouble, big trouble. We'll be 527 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: right back. Welcome back. Cookie thinks she's heading to another 528 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: firing squad, but this time it's in front of the 529 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: big whigs at CBS. But first, let's meet the Sandinista 530 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: man at the center of all the accusations. Minister of 531 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: the Interior to Moss Borge. In his obituary, The Guardian 532 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: wrote this to Moss Borge was one of the founders 533 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: of the Sandinista guerrilla movement that overthrew the Samosa family 534 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: dictatorship in Nicaragua. Revered by his followers, hated and feared 535 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: by his opponents, Borgey embodied many of the contradictions at 536 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: the heart of the Sandinista Revolution. A skilled poet and writer, 537 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: he was capable of attaining great lyrical and emotional heights 538 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: even while penning what was essentially propaganda. As Interior Minister 539 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: and secret police chief in the Sandinista government, he could 540 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: appear cynical and ruthless, as implacable with his enemies as 541 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: he was self sacrificing in the cause for which he 542 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: several times came close to giving his life. 543 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 2: We were friends, we were acquaintances. 544 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 3: I don't think that I ever really realized or thought 545 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 3: about how ruthless and cold blooded these guys were. They 546 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 3: were completely and one hundred percent capable of torture, killing, 547 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 3: slow death, the worst of the worst. 548 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: And he was in charge of all of that, all 549 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: of it. He's a scary motherfucker. 550 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 2: He's a scary motherfucker. 551 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: Had you known him prior. 552 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 3: I knew him when they overthrew the Samosa regime and 553 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 3: he became one of the nine comandante's in charge. 554 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: He genuinely liked you. 555 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 3: He did because I was pretty, I was fun. He 556 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,719 Speaker 3: was not a very good looking man. He was short, 557 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 3: he was stocky, he was ugly. Still did well with 558 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 3: the ladies because of He was very, very very powerful. 559 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: If you remember back in episode five down in Dirty 560 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: Borge had the hots for Jane Wallace, Center flowers and everything. 561 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 3: We just enjoyed what each of us represented to the other. 562 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 3: He represented inside scoop. Powerful pretty girl with power in 563 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 3: the news business was probably very attractive to him as well. 564 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: And they had to know that you were a left 565 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: leaning journalist. 566 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 3: They knew, as were most of the journalists based in Nicaragua. 567 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 3: I hate to say it, and I'm sure that many 568 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 3: of us don't even want to admit it now, but we. 569 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 2: Were all leaning left. 570 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 3: Not that we were socialists, not that we were communists, 571 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 3: but we were more humanists. I always remember saying. 572 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: So you're getting these stories, You're getting a lot of 573 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: inside information from him and other people. 574 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 2: You're getting dibbs, You're getting of the best. 575 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: That's right, of the best. 576 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 3: Remember I told you a little while back. Everybody was 577 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 3: a contact for me, from the gardener to the prostitute 578 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 3: to the president. Everyone was a contact for me. And 579 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 3: I always found behind every story there was true, some truth. 580 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 3: It could be a bullshit story, but there was some 581 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 3: truth to it. 582 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: Why was he so willing to give you leads? And 583 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: because he. 584 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 3: Knew that I'd put it out there. I put the 585 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 3: story out there. 586 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: Did he think you would be fair? 587 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 2: He thought I'd be fair. 588 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,959 Speaker 3: He might have just been using me one hundred percent 589 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 3: like I used him and many others. Sort of scratch 590 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 3: my back, I'll scratch your back. 591 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: Did you ever party with him in any way? 592 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 3: Not really, not drugs or anything. Cocktails, yeah, but no, 593 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 3: not drugs. 594 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: Was he the kind of guy that you could have 595 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: a drink with? 596 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 2: Yes? 597 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: Was he fine in those situations? 598 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 2: He was interesting, not fun. 599 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 3: He wasn't a fun guy, but he was interesting, and 600 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 3: the fact that he found me completely enthralling that I 601 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 3: was a journalist, also that I came from the elite 602 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 3: part of society that he probably never really had an 603 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 3: entrance into. 604 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 2: I think I was intriguing to him. 605 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: He probably knew everything about you. 606 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 3: That absolutely I found out later there was a big, 607 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 3: big file on me. 608 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I would like to have seen that. 609 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 2: I would too, I would have liked to have seen 610 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 2: that as well. 611 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: So he became a source for you. 612 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 3: He did, And I don't think he was a source 613 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 3: for many people because of what he did, but he 614 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 3: became a source for me. 615 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 2: He liked me immediately. I liked him. 616 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 3: He was a very kind of flirty, dirty old man 617 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 3: kind of thing, which I was well versed in that language. 618 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 3: We just hit it off, you know, got to know 619 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 3: each other. I think he gave me his card, told me, 620 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 3: you ever need anything, you call me. I'm thinking in 621 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 3: terms of if I ever get arrested or do something bad, 622 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 3: but he meant it in the terms of, you know, 623 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 3: if I can ever help you in a story. 624 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 2: I'm available. 625 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:11,240 Speaker 1: And did that happen? 626 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 3: Both things happened in different levels. I would get calls 627 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 3: from his people alerting me to maybe go track this 628 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 3: thing down or go look at to this person, sort 629 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 3: of breadcrumbs leading me to a bigger story without telling 630 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 3: me what that story was. 631 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: And why do you think he chose you for that? 632 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 2: I'm not sure. 633 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 3: Maybe he found I don't want to say, a kindred spirit, 634 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 3: but maybe he found someone that could quite possibly be 635 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 3: open minded to what he was selling. I don't want 636 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 3: to say a comrade, because I'm a journalist. I'm not 637 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 3: supposed to be anybody's comrade. 638 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 2: I don't know. 639 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 3: Maybe he just felt that I would be somebody that 640 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 3: could be helpful, and that he could be helpful too. 641 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 3: I'm sort of not ashamed, but a little embarrassed about 642 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 3: that I would help them. 643 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: So you find out down the road that he was 644 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 1: more involved in your life than you thought, looking out 645 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: for you, protecting. 646 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 6: You, right. 647 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 2: I found that out years later. 648 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: I find that fascinating. 649 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,359 Speaker 3: I found out that on every junket that I ever 650 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 3: made out of the city, any dangerous near death situations 651 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 3: that I found myself in, I did not know at 652 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 3: the time, but he always had one or two guys 653 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 3: whose job was you die before she gets a scratch, 654 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,800 Speaker 3: not just when I would leave the city in search 655 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 3: of Bang Bang or the war, but also in the city, 656 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,240 Speaker 3: he always made sure that I was safe. 657 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: That's crazy. Rookie and Timos boor Hey were friends that 658 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: needed each other. But did she have sex with him 659 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: to get her stories? Let's find out. 660 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:09,879 Speaker 2: I get this call. 661 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 3: It's from one of the old guard, old school tough journalists, 662 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:22,800 Speaker 3: David Bucks Bob. Anybody at CBS from that era knew 663 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 3: exactly who Bucks was. 664 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 2: He was of the ilk of. 665 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 3: Cronkite Morrow, and this was a kind of guy that 666 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 3: still referred to women as Broad's and he wasn't always 667 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:35,720 Speaker 3: very keen on women. 668 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 2: But I had met him a few times and he 669 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 2: liked me. 670 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 3: He's calling me, and he's furious. I was scared I 671 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 3: was going to lose my job. 672 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,359 Speaker 1: So they call you in, So they call me in. 673 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 3: They fly me out of Mexico. This is after the 674 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:52,919 Speaker 3: page six story hit. 675 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 2: Sometimes it's good to be on. 676 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 3: Page six, Sometimes it's great. This time it wasn't. I 677 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 3: explained to him exactly what had happened, that this was 678 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 3: obviously an ambush. None of those things were true. If 679 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 3: they had been true, he would have heard about it 680 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 3: long ago from other journalists. Plus they knew the reputation 681 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 3: of one of the other female journalists. I was in 682 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 3: good company in other words, for them to believe that 683 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 3: it was all. 684 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 2: False, and even if there was some truth. 685 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 3: To any of it CPS at that point, they were 686 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 3: getting what they wanted and what they needed, which was 687 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 3: the stories, breaking news exclusives. We were getting them and 688 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 3: that was because of me. 689 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,800 Speaker 1: So did they literally look at you and say, Cookie, 690 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 1: is this true? 691 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,359 Speaker 2: Yeah? And I said, there's no truth to it. 692 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 3: I am friends with these people, but I'm not sleeping 693 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 3: with them to get the story. 694 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:50,319 Speaker 2: I don't need to. 695 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 3: We're friends, they're my contacts, They're in my rolodex. 696 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 2: As soon as I set him at ease. 697 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:03,279 Speaker 3: I did not know this, but Bucks wrote a very 698 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 3: threatening letter not only to that publication, the Right Way publication, 699 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 3: but also to the fake wanna be journalist Gary Moore 700 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 3: and just basically cease and desist. 701 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 2: Stop all of this. 702 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 3: We want a retraction and if there is none, you 703 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 3: will have the wrath and the power that is CBS 704 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:27,240 Speaker 3: on your ass. 705 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 1: Bucksbom wrote this to Irving Crystal, the editor of the 706 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: National Interest magazine, the man behind the bullshit smear on 707 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: Cookie and the women of CBS Monagua. 708 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 7: Dear mister Crystal, an article in the current summer issue 709 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 7: by freelance writer Gary Moore, deals with issues of journalistic 710 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 7: access to the news. In addition to a number of 711 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 7: faulty assumptions, it contains a series of allegations and innuendos 712 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 7: about the conduct of CBS News personnel working in Nicaragua. 713 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 7: Our investigation of the substance of those allegations and innuendos 714 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,840 Speaker 7: has convinced us that they are false. In addition to falsity, 715 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 7: they have every appearance being malicious, an unjustifiable attempt to 716 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 7: taint both the professional reputations and the personal lives of 717 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 7: responsible news journalists. Your writer and your magazine owe them 718 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 7: an apology. Sincerely, David Bucksbaum, CBS News, Vice President News 719 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:15,879 Speaker 7: Coverage and Operations. 720 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: Basically, cease and assist, fuck around and find out. Esquire 721 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 1: Magazine called Irving Crystal the godfather of the most powerful 722 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 1: new political force in America, neo Conservatism. George W. Bush 723 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,880 Speaker 1: awarded him the Presidential Medal of Freedom. You might know 724 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 1: his son, Bill Crystal, neo Conservative founder of The Weekly 725 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: Standard and now editor at large of the bulwark and 726 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: popular pundit on numerous cable news programs. He held various 727 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: positions in the Reagan and Bush administrations and was a 728 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: leading advocate of the misguided invasion of Iraq. He's a 729 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,280 Speaker 1: proud Republican, but now an outspoken critic of the former 730 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: President Trump. 731 00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 3: Here's Nobodies, Gary Moore and Nobody the publication, which I 732 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 3: think was just invented to do that piece. Realize, Yeah, 733 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 3: we fucked him. Now we're finding out they retracted it. 734 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 3: I will forever be grateful to Bucks. I loved that man. 735 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,799 Speaker 3: That letter would have been as if Walter Cronkite had 736 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 3: signed it himself. I cried, I've kept it all these years. 737 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 3: It was a badge of honor for me. We cleared everything. 738 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,280 Speaker 3: He showed me the letter defending me and my honor 739 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 3: because he was that kind of old school guy and 740 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 3: defending the honor of CBS that we are always on 741 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 3: the up and up, even though sometimes we weren't. But 742 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 3: you gotta do what you gotta do to get the story. 743 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 1: So you are saying categorically that you did not sleep 744 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: with generals for. 745 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 3: Stories or dance on tables, saying I love revolutions and No, 746 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:53,320 Speaker 3: that did not happen. 747 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: I see you dancing on tables. 748 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 2: Correct, But not for that, not for that. 749 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 1: Cookie die a bullet. She's on top of the world, 750 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,880 Speaker 1: master of her domain, but there is one unstoppable enemy 751 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,280 Speaker 1: that's about to take her down. Someone she's been battling 752 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 1: her whole life herself. Next time on Journalista. 753 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 3: We were in a very remote part of the country. 754 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 3: I was with Subsandinista soldiers. One of them realized that 755 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 3: I'd been smoking weed. We get back to the barracks, 756 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,759 Speaker 3: he ratch me out. The next thing I know, the 757 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 3: commander and I guess what they call their MPs grab 758 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 3: me by both arms and they're going to lead me 759 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,760 Speaker 3: away to I don't know jail. 760 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: The Journalista podcast features the stories and voice of Cookie Hood, 761 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 1: narrated by Steven Esteb, Produced by Sean J. Donnelly, Executive 762 00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:00,760 Speaker 1: producers Jason Wagensback, Roy Laughlin and Ellen k Heart. Executive 763 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: producer Tyler Klang, Written and edited by Steven Esteb, Music 764 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 1: by Jay Weigel, Associate producer in sound design Stephen Tonti, 765 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: Sound mixing by Jesse Sollen Snyder. Special guests Lloyd Sherr, 766 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:19,919 Speaker 1: Stephen Tonti, and Casey Groves. Special musical appearance by Rhythm 767 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 1: Collision with Sean J. Donnelly on drums. This is a 768 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,240 Speaker 1: production of Journalista podcast LLC and iHeartRadio