Speaker 1: You're listening to Comedy Central.
Speaker 2: I sat down with President Barack Obama for a wide
Speaker 2: region conversation. We talked about the challenges facing the world,
Speaker 2: his message to young activists, and workshopping slogans with Michelle Enjoy.
Speaker 2: Are you going to fill a bust me or like,
Speaker 2: because I don't have all the time?
Speaker 1: You want me to be very So is this like
Speaker 1: a roundabout way of saying you just want me to
Speaker 1: give short pithy No, I don't want short question. You
Speaker 1: want me to speed up. You want me to talk faster?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, please, mister President.
Speaker 1: I will not I will not purposely fillibuster, but sometimes
Speaker 1: I will have a pause as I'm formulating my thoughts.
Speaker 1: As you well know, Michelle, Michelle has been speeding up
Speaker 1: my auto my my audiobook. So you know, I guess
Speaker 1: you can press a button so it.
Speaker 2: Plays like, yeah, you can like one or one and
Speaker 2: a half. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're a one and a
Speaker 2: half guy. You're definitely one and a half guy.
Speaker 1: I was a little offended by that, but that's okay,
Speaker 1: that's fine. It does it doesn't communicate the depth of
Speaker 1: feeling with which I'm doing the reading, but it's Okay.
Speaker 2: How do you like being referred to like just as
Speaker 2: a human being? Do you like?
Speaker 1: Mister President's people call me Baraq. But then sometimes some
Speaker 1: folks feel awkward doing it. Obviously that's what my friends
Speaker 1: call me. So I consider you a friend, but you
Speaker 1: may feel you.
Speaker 2: Know, so no, no, no, the people, the people will
Speaker 2: feel like like even Africans will. They'll write me letters
Speaker 2: saying how dare you?
Speaker 1: This is my fourth two So I don't want to
Speaker 1: get you in trouble. So you can say it, mister President.
Speaker 2: That makes sense.
Speaker 1: You can call me potus.
Speaker 2: My favorite one was Obisil. That was my favorite.
Speaker 1: Please call me that, mister President.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Daily Social Distancing Show.
Speaker 1: I am very happy to be here with you.
Speaker 2: You're out there promoting a brand new book, a promised land,
Speaker 2: a seven hundred page book, if I may add, of
Speaker 2: reading your stuff. Don't get me wrong, but like I
Speaker 2: would have liked three fifty three fifty why seven hundred pages?
Speaker 1: You know I would have been I would have broken
Speaker 1: it up even more. But you know, the publishers thought
Speaker 1: that bringing it up into two volumes would be about right.
Speaker 1: And look, the goal of the book was to give
Speaker 1: people a sense of what it's like to be in
Speaker 1: the White House as a normal person finding themselves in
Speaker 1: extraordinary circumstances. And I think part of the goal, particularly
Speaker 1: for young people, I wanted them to get a sense that,
Speaker 1: you know, not everybody's going to end up being president,
Speaker 1: but if you decide that your voice makes a difference,
Speaker 1: if you decide that you can have an impact, then
Speaker 1: through the ups and downs, you will end up having
Speaker 1: some pretty extraordinary experiences. And I want I wanted to
Speaker 1: be an encouragement for people to say, ah, you know
Speaker 1: the guy, Yeah, okay, but he's not so special and
Speaker 1: look what he ended up doing. Maybe I can do
Speaker 1: something as well.
Speaker 2: It feels like this book is Barack Obama convincing Barack
Speaker 2: Obama to remain optimistic. And what I mean by convincing
Speaker 2: Barack Obama I think of like a young Barack Obama.
Speaker 2: I think of a fledgling Barack Obama. I'm not trying
Speaker 2: to emulate you, per se, but rather anyone who's trying
Speaker 2: to make a change in the world or their world.
Speaker 2: That's what it feels like if you are writing to
Speaker 2: young people to be optimistic. In the book, what are
Speaker 2: some of the frustrations that you understand on their side
Speaker 2: that may hinder that optimism, you know, because if a
Speaker 2: young person says, yeah, but this system right now is
Speaker 2: crumbling more and more, how do you maintain that optimism
Speaker 2: or do you think that there has to be a
Speaker 2: point where they go, I'm not optimistic. I'm just fighting
Speaker 2: to break what it is to create something new.
Speaker 1: Part of the reason that it's seven hundred page as
Speaker 1: long is because by reading the book they'll see, Man,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of structural problems or barriers in
Speaker 1: making this place better. We're learning right now in vivid
Speaker 1: a vivid example of the fact that our democracy is
Speaker 1: not the way we would imagine it to be. Right.
Speaker 1: There are all kinds of elements to it where the
Speaker 1: most votes don't necessarily translate into the equivalent amount of power.
Speaker 1: Very popular proposals can wither on the vine because of
Speaker 1: a filibuster in the Senate, and so I don't try
Speaker 1: to gloss those over. You know. The Paris Accord did
Speaker 1: not solve climate change, but it created the first global
Speaker 1: framework whereby all countries agreed we have to do something
Speaker 1: about this, and here's a mechanism to do it. You
Speaker 1: can still be terrified about the pace at which we
Speaker 1: are burning up the planet, and yet think that was
Speaker 1: a worthwhile endeavor because it gives us at least the
Speaker 1: opportunity maybe three, four or five years down the road,
Speaker 1: to keep building on them. So that is the kind
Speaker 1: of mentality I want young people to have a certain impatience,
Speaker 1: a certain frustration, a certain anger about the status quo.
Speaker 1: There are times now where you have younger activists criticizing
Speaker 1: me for Obama, why didn't you take care of this
Speaker 1: or that or the other. And I welcome them feeling
Speaker 1: frustrated and impatient, because that's how I was before I
Speaker 1: got started. And then they'll get their own knocks on
Speaker 1: the head, and you know, some stuff won't work out
Speaker 1: exactly the way they want. But the impulse is the
Speaker 1: one that I want to encourage because it's as a
Speaker 1: consequence of that constant striving and imagining something better that
Speaker 1: things don't get exactly as we wanted, but they get better.
Speaker 2: You're a very serious person, because I mean, you're a
Speaker 2: president of the United States, But at the same time,
Speaker 2: you're a lot more fun than a lot of people think.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm constantly trying to explain to people. I'm
Speaker 1: a funny guy, but I don't know.
Speaker 2: But you really are, you really really are. And what
Speaker 2: I liked in the book is there are moments where
Speaker 2: there's just like a roasting of people or life like
Speaker 2: the G twenty. I've never heard of a world need
Speaker 2: to describe the G twenty the way you do in
Speaker 2: the book The High School of it All. I wandered
Speaker 2: on a personal level, have you maintained connections with those
Speaker 2: world leaders as like, like do you do you send
Speaker 2: Angler Merkel memes? Do you like who are you still
Speaker 2: close with just as a human being?
Speaker 1: You know, I don't send Angelo Merkell memes, but I
Speaker 1: talked to her sometimes sometimes you know, she'll give me
Speaker 1: a call. I'll give her a call and we'll trade notes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're a handful of folks who you've been in the
Speaker 1: thoughts old with right, you've done some good, important work.
Speaker 1: Some of them are still in power. So I don't
Speaker 1: want to mention that you know that I'm giving them
Speaker 1: a call because you know, who knows they might give
Speaker 1: them get them in trouble. You mentioned somebody like an
Speaker 1: Angela Merkel. Look, you know the stance she took in
Speaker 1: Europe relative to immigration and the enormous political costs she
Speaker 1: paid for that, and yet there was something inside her
Speaker 1: that said, look, I'm not going to simply abandon a
Speaker 1: million people who are in desperate need. You know, you
Speaker 1: see that in somebody, and you say, it encourages you
Speaker 1: that for all the cruelty and venality and corruption around
Speaker 1: the world, there are a lot of good people doing
Speaker 1: good work, and some of them actually rise to significant
Speaker 1: positions of power. And in that sense, democracy can work
Speaker 1: the way it's supposed to if we have a vigilant citizenry,
Speaker 1: and that's not always the case.
Speaker 2: You started leadership programs, not just in South Africa, but
Speaker 2: all over the world. The Obama Foundation has set about
Speaker 2: on a journey to inspire young people to grow up
Speaker 2: to become leaders. Growing up in South Africa, I was
Speaker 2: taught about the different levels of what a struggle is
Speaker 2: going to be. You know, the freedom fighters may not
Speaker 2: necessarily be the best politicians. The best politicians may not
Speaker 2: necessarily best be the best leaders. The best activists may
Speaker 2: not be the best organizers, and so on and so forth.
Speaker 2: Everyone has a role to play in trying to get
Speaker 2: to a certain place. And so I wonder when you
Speaker 2: set up these you know, this leadership academy that's that's
Speaker 2: all over the globe. You know, you're clearly trying to
Speaker 2: create mini Obamas everywhere, which is probably like a fever
Speaker 2: dream of the rights. But what you what you're trying
Speaker 2: to do is create something pacific. And I'd like you
Speaker 2: know what that is? What do you believe a leader
Speaker 2: is not just somebody who's in power, but a leader.
Speaker 1: The program we did in Johannesburg, we gathered up two
Speaker 1: hundred young leaders from fifty countries on the continent of Africa,
Speaker 1: and it was as varied. You had young women who
Speaker 1: had started rural health clinics, you had MPs who had
Speaker 1: taken a more conventional political route, you had entrepreneurs. The
Speaker 1: thing they all had in common, though, was this sense
Speaker 1: not only that the world could be better and that
Speaker 1: they had a role to play in it, but also
Speaker 1: the belief that they couldn't do it by themselves, and
Speaker 1: that they had to in some ways unlock the potential
Speaker 1: and power of other people. A speech I gave in
Speaker 1: Johannesburg in conjunction with that is for the anniversary Mandela's
Speaker 1: one hundredth anniversary, where I contrasted that sort of democratic,
Speaker 1: inclusive leadership to this strongman leadership that in some ways
Speaker 1: we've seen ascendant in certain parts of the world, in
Speaker 1: some ways has was acendant here in the United States.
Speaker 1: And those are two different stories of what it means
Speaker 1: to be a leader and power. And that conflict, that
Speaker 1: battle between a more democratic, inclusive vision and one that's
Speaker 1: top down, dominant, subordinate. That's a contest that's taking place
Speaker 1: here in the United States and around the world. And
Speaker 1: it's not going to be finished just because the election's
Speaker 1: over and Donald Trump was defeated, because you see examples
Speaker 1: of this in the Philippines and Hungary, uh in a
Speaker 1: variety countries in Africa and Asia, and so that contest
Speaker 1: is going to continue.
Speaker 2: What I find fascinating about the conversation that a lot
Speaker 2: of Americans are having now, and you talk about this
Speaker 2: in the book as well, is how America's influence in
Speaker 2: the world has diminished over the past few years. You know,
Speaker 2: how countries around the world have no longer said, what
Speaker 2: is America doing, We'll work with them. It's it's been
Speaker 2: more like, no, guys, we can't wait for America. We're
Speaker 2: doing our own thing. But I wonder, as somebody who
Speaker 2: has grown up in other parts of the world, as
Speaker 2: someone who has family and other parts of the world,
Speaker 2: is there an argument that maybe that's a good thing
Speaker 2: that the world doesn't follow America anymore, or what would
Speaker 2: the what would the inverse of that argument be, like,
Speaker 2: should the world follow America? Or is it time for
Speaker 2: the world to start doing its own thing and America
Speaker 2: to be less the world police.
Speaker 1: I think it is a good thing that other countries
Speaker 1: catch up and have their own capabilities and their own agency.
Speaker 1: That's not something that I think America should fear. My
Speaker 1: argument would be that even in a more multipolar world
Speaker 1: where you don't have just one big power, but you
Speaker 1: have other countries who are coming into their own the
Speaker 1: principles that America articulated at its best about rule of law,
Speaker 1: human rights, freedom of speech, democracy, those values, at least
Speaker 1: I choose to believe, are not exclusively American. Yeah, you,
Speaker 1: as somebody who lived in South Africa, know the play
Speaker 1: that in other countries. Sometimes you hear where somebody who's
Speaker 1: doing something entirely for power and money and influence will
Speaker 1: say if they're criticized, to say, ah, you know, you've
Speaker 1: been just influenced by Western thinking. That's colonial thinking. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you are stealing from your people, don't And when we
Speaker 1: criticize you, don't aim that somehow this is some American
Speaker 1: hegemony being asserted against you. We're calling you on the
Speaker 1: fact that you're a thief. I think it's important for
Speaker 1: us to recognize that, for all its failings, the values
Speaker 1: that America is often articulated on the world stage had
Speaker 1: been ones that I would still believe in and that
Speaker 1: a lot of people took comfort from. And when we
Speaker 1: are not asserting them, oftentimes they don't, you know, they
Speaker 1: don't play out on the world stage.
Speaker 2: I sometimes wondered if you ever grappled with the difficulty
Speaker 2: of the paradox that America was creating in what it
Speaker 2: was trying to do in the world, and then what
Speaker 2: its actions was sometimes creating in the world.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think about that in the Middle East,
Speaker 2: you know, wars that have been started on the false pretenses,
Speaker 2: people who have been killed who had nothing to do,
Speaker 2: you know, And so I wonder someone who had to
Speaker 2: make decisions and someone who was in that leadership position,
Speaker 2: do you sometimes grapple with how America did or did
Speaker 2: not help itself in how it acted with the world,
Speaker 2: because in the world, like I'll tell you, as an
Speaker 2: international person, we would oftentimes go like, man, yes, America
Speaker 2: is great and it's doing wonderful things. But then you'd
Speaker 2: be like, but also, man, sometimes they just break the
Speaker 2: rules and no one can say anything about it.
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, and I record examples in the book of
Speaker 1: where I'm grappling with this right and one of the
Speaker 1: interesting challenges of being president of the United States. But
Speaker 1: I think being head of government or state in any
Speaker 1: country is you inherit a legacy. Right. So if I
Speaker 1: come in as president and I can't undo the Iraq War,
Speaker 1: the decision to go into Iraq. Now, I can manage
Speaker 1: as best I can how we can wind down that war,
Speaker 1: mitigate some of the damage that's been done, but I
Speaker 1: can't reverse it.
Speaker 2: Did you ever Did you ever envy though? How like
Speaker 2: Trump just came in and basically broke shit though because
Speaker 2: I mean he didn't care.
Speaker 1: No, I didn't envy it, because I do care, and
Speaker 1: I do not think that is an option to simply
Speaker 1: pretend that the legacy of problems or issues that you
Speaker 1: inherit are somehow things you can just brush aside. So
Speaker 1: the answer is yes, I would struggle with the fact
Speaker 1: that any action I took, particularly when you're talking about
Speaker 1: you know, counter terrorism, right, That's probably the area where
Speaker 1: I wrestled with this most because my obligation first and
Speaker 1: foremost in the United States was to make sure that
Speaker 1: people didn't get hurt. That's sort of the bare minimum
Speaker 1: that you expect out of a nation state that you're
Speaker 1: living in, is that you can defend against harm because
Speaker 1: you're dealing with non state actors. That meant that by
Speaker 1: the time I took office, you had networks that were
Speaker 1: embedded in societies, not necessarily supported by those societies, but
Speaker 1: they're there and they are plotting in their planning, and
Speaker 1: that wasn't made up. And there were organizations that if
Speaker 1: they could blow up the New York subway system, they would,
Speaker 1: If they could get their hands on a biological weapon,
Speaker 1: they would use it. You then are wrestling with how
Speaker 1: do I protect the American people from those actors, but
Speaker 1: do it in a way that is morally and ethically justified.
Speaker 1: And war is madness, kinetic action of any sort, military
Speaker 1: action of any sort that results in death and destruction
Speaker 1: at a certain level is not the thing I would
Speaker 1: want humanity to do. And what happens to people is tragic,
Speaker 1: It is not It is not something you gloss over
Speaker 1: what it does to our soldiers and our troops. You know,
Speaker 1: as I talk about in the book, it's not just
Speaker 1: the harm that our young men and women suffered and
Speaker 1: I would witness in Walter read, but it's also how
Speaker 1: it changes them internally when they have engaged in violence,
Speaker 1: even if necessary and justified, against others. So that the
Speaker 1: best I could come up with was to never glorify it,
Speaker 1: to never pretend like it isn't a dilemma. And so
Speaker 1: those kinds of of questions I think are ones that
Speaker 1: not only should American leaders have to grapple with, but
Speaker 1: I think the American people have to be aware. And
Speaker 1: sometimes the media does not do a very good job.
Speaker 1: It's a very binary you know, the Iraq War, It's
Speaker 1: glorious for the first year and a half and then
Speaker 1: suddenly it's not. Yes, and were shocked that US invading
Speaker 1: another country might turn out to be messy. Hopefully that's
Speaker 1: not a lesson we have to repeatedly relearn.
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty was a year for many of racial reckoning.
Speaker 2: You know, it was the year when people of all
Speaker 2: ages took to the streets, black and white alike, and said,
Speaker 2: we need to change the way the police deal with
Speaker 2: people in this country, predominantly black people in this country.
Speaker 2: It was an interesting time as well, because I mean
Speaker 2: your presidency, as you know better than anyone, people thought, well,
Speaker 2: that is it. We're now in a post racial utopia.
Speaker 2: Barack Obama's in the white House. We have half black,
Speaker 2: half whites, all black. Good times, let's have a good one.
Speaker 2: And then people saw that there was still a lot
Speaker 2: of work to be done. Let's talk a little bit
Speaker 2: about the movement as you see it. So the problem
Speaker 2: I have with headlines sometimes is like people take things
Speaker 2: out of context, etc. But some activists criticize you for
Speaker 2: saying they've got to be careful of snappy slogans, you know,
Speaker 2: like defund the police because it loses people. But I wonder,
Speaker 2: do you think that the slogan is off is the
Speaker 2: thing that makes people for or against you? Or do
Speaker 2: you think people are just going to be four or
Speaker 2: against you? And then the slogan doesn't really mean as much.
Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is like like Donald
Speaker 2: Trump's make America great again. It's not a very divisive slogan.
Speaker 2: If you look at it. On the face of it,
Speaker 2: that's a great slogan. Why would anyone not want to
Speaker 2: make America great again? But the subtext sets something else
Speaker 2: when you're thinking of that as someone who's greatest slogans.
Speaker 2: By the way, I mean, yes, we can. It's snappy.
Speaker 1: It works. Although, as I said in the book, I
Speaker 1: actually thought it was corny. I didn't I didn't like
Speaker 1: it that much when when my team came up with it,
Speaker 1: and then they went to ask Michelle, and Michelle said, no,
Speaker 1: it's not corny, it's fine. So clearly she had a
Speaker 1: better political brain than I did on this. I'm glad
Speaker 1: you actually brought this up, because you know what's been
Speaker 1: fascinating while I've been on this book tour is you know,
Speaker 1: people have asked me what's my source of optimism, And
Speaker 1: uniformally what I have said is nothing made me more
Speaker 1: optimistic during a very difficult year than the activism that
Speaker 1: we saw in the wake of George Floyd's murder and
Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter. And I have consistently believed that their courage, activism,
Speaker 1: media savvy, strategic resolve far exceeds anything that I could
Speaker 1: have done at their age, and I think has shifted
Speaker 1: the conversation in ways that I would not even imagined
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. So throughout this slew of compliments,
Speaker 1: then said, well, what do you think about the particular
Speaker 1: slogan defund the police? And I said, well, that particular slogan.
Speaker 1: I think the concern is that there may be potential
Speaker 1: allies out there that you lose. And the issue always
Speaker 1: is how do you get enough people to support your
Speaker 1: cause that you can actually institutionalize it and translate it
Speaker 1: into laws, structures and so forth. There were two or
Speaker 1: three writers who I admire who wrote Obama's making an
Speaker 1: admission to chastise Black Lives Matter, and you go, what,
Speaker 1: hold on a second, I just spent the whole summer
Speaker 1: complementing a member. What are you talking about. The reason
Speaker 1: it caught attention I suspect is there were some in
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party who suggested the reason we didn't do
Speaker 1: better in the congressional elections this time was because of
Speaker 1: this phrase. And I think that people assumed that somehow
Speaker 1: I was making an argument that that's why we didn't
Speaker 1: get a bigger democratic majority. That actually was not the
Speaker 1: point I was making. I was making a very particular
Speaker 1: point around if we in fact want to translate the
Speaker 1: very legitimate belief that how we do needs to change,
Speaker 1: and that if there is, for example, a homeless guy
Speaker 1: ranting and railing in the middle of the street, sending
Speaker 1: a mental health worker rather than an armed, untrained police
Speaker 1: officer to deal with that person might be a better
Speaker 1: outcome for all of us and make us safer. Right
Speaker 1: that if we describe that to not just white folks,
Speaker 1: but let's say Michelle's mom, that makes sense to them.
Speaker 1: But if we say defund the police, not just white folks,
Speaker 1: but Michelle's mom might say, if I'm getting robbed, who
Speaker 1: am I going to call? And is somebody going to
Speaker 1: show up? Right? So the issue here becomes, you know,
Speaker 1: at any given time, how are we translating and using
Speaker 1: language not to make people more comfortable? Quote unquote, right?
Speaker 1: Because that's always a strain and historically right. The concern
Speaker 1: in these debates is also is often or are we
Speaker 1: just trying to make white people comfortable rather than speaking
Speaker 1: truth to power? Right, That's the framework we tend to
Speaker 1: think about these things, Right, Yeah, the issue to me,
Speaker 1: is not making them comfortable. It is can we be
Speaker 1: precise with our language enough that people who might be
Speaker 1: persuaded around that particular issue to make a particular change
Speaker 1: that gets a particular result that we want. What's the
Speaker 1: best way for us to describe that.
Speaker 2: What you're basically saying is we should workshop all of
Speaker 2: our slogans with Michelle. That's what I hate saying.
Speaker 1: That probably would be wise, it would probably work. But
Speaker 1: I want to go back to something you said earlier,
Speaker 1: which I think is really important. And I said this
Speaker 1: in the wake of some criticism. I said, Look, part
Speaker 1: of this is also everybody has different roles to play.
Speaker 1: An activist, a movement leader is going to provide a
Speaker 1: prophetic voice and speak certain truths that somebody who is
Speaker 1: going to be elected into office will not be able
Speaker 1: to say. I reread James Baldwin's A Fire next time
Speaker 1: this summer. How is it that something written fifty years ago,
Speaker 1: fifty five years ago, yeah, applies directly today, right, despite
Speaker 1: everything that's happened to me. That is as searing and
Speaker 1: as honest a portrayal of the gaping wound of race
Speaker 1: in America. But of course James Baldwin can be elected
Speaker 1: to the US Senate or unlikely that he would want
Speaker 1: to be the mayor of a city who's responsible for
Speaker 1: figuring out how do I deal with the police union? Right,
Speaker 1: that's somebody else's role, and and all these roles are important.
Speaker 2: Uh, And so why do you think if I may interrupt?
Speaker 2: Why do you think though, that Republicans or right wingers
Speaker 2: now do that though? That's that's something that I've I've
Speaker 2: struggled to to understand. You see, now, even in this election,
Speaker 2: I mean, some of the Republicans who were running were
Speaker 2: Qann supporters, and they were going, we're running and this
Speaker 2: is what and some of them were winning. Some of
Speaker 2: them are so extreme and they're winning. And so I
Speaker 2: sometimes wonder if if there's this, there's this is it
Speaker 2: just a political thing in America where if you if
Speaker 2: you're in the Republican Party, you can be completely bombastic
Speaker 2: in what you believe in, and then as a Democrat
Speaker 2: you're trying to toe the line between centrist and and
Speaker 2: and left leaning.
Speaker 1: Well, because I think in fact, the Republican Party is
Speaker 1: the minority party in this country. The only reason that
Speaker 1: it doesn't look like they're the minority party is because
Speaker 1: of structures like the US Senate and the Electoral College
Speaker 1: that don't render them the majority party. So they have
Speaker 1: certain built in advantages around power, given their population distribution
Speaker 1: and how our government works. But the truth of the
Speaker 1: matter is is that sixty percent of the people are
Speaker 1: occupying what I would consider a more reality based universe,
Speaker 1: and those are the constituents worth speaking to, and that
Speaker 1: is a more diverse group.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I describe in the book the first time I go
Speaker 1: to the Republican House caucus to speak to them, and
Speaker 1: I think there was an Asian guy or gel and
Speaker 1: maybe a couple of Hispanics and that was it. It
Speaker 1: is much more homogeneous, which means that, yes, they have
Speaker 1: to do less work, but it also means that they
Speaker 1: can talk to themselves, and as a consequence of the
Speaker 1: way our democracy or republic is structured, they don't have
Speaker 1: to appeal to as broad of a base. That's not fair,
Speaker 1: but you know what, I at least would prefer not
Speaker 1: having the progressives model ourselves out of or model ourselves
Speaker 1: on the current Republican party. That doesn't feel like a
Speaker 1: good strategy to me to get the outcomes that we want.
Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about let's loosen things up.
Speaker 2: That's unbuttoned, one of those one of those buttons on
Speaker 2: the shirt. As someone who I consider to be one
Speaker 2: of the best deliverers of jokes and roasts, are you
Speaker 2: going to be more careful going forward about who you roast?
Speaker 2: And I say this because you roast to Donald Trump,
Speaker 2: he ran for president. He roast to Kanye West, he
Speaker 2: ran for president. So I don't know if you've noticed,
Speaker 2: but you have an ability to inspire people to run
Speaker 2: for the highest office in the land with some of
Speaker 2: the jokes that you tell about them.
Speaker 1: Well I should. I should roast people people I admire more.
Speaker 1: I'll start roasting you man, who knows, although you weren't
Speaker 1: born here. So yeah, but look, look I was able
Speaker 1: to get away with it apparently who knows.
Speaker 2: Before I let you go, I wanted to know one
Speaker 2: last thing, and that is being president of the United
Speaker 2: States is arguably the toughest job in the world. When
Speaker 2: you transition back to personal life, I wonder what that
Speaker 2: is like, because unlike you, I don't have that power.
Speaker 2: I've never been able to just change a thing in
Speaker 2: the world or do something about it. But now in
Speaker 2: many ways, you are like me and that you see
Speaker 2: the thing on the TV and then you get angry
Speaker 2: or sad, but you cannot really do anything about it.
Speaker 2: And so I wonder, as as former President Barack Obama,
Speaker 2: have you have you transitioned into that completely or do
Speaker 2: you find different ways to try and fix the problems
Speaker 2: that you see in the world.
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, I'm not anything like you. I
Speaker 1: still have a lot more influence in cloud. So let's
Speaker 1: just be clear. Come on, man, I.
Speaker 2: Was hoping you just let that one slide. I was
Speaker 2: hoping you'd just be like, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: In any ways, Look, the truth is that I did
Speaker 1: not have those kinds of withdrawals, and I know that
Speaker 1: they're there are people who I know who've had them
Speaker 1: when they leave public life, and very visibly, you know,
Speaker 1: they they want to get back on stage. Michelle and I,
Speaker 1: that's something we share. We feel good about the work
Speaker 1: we did. We don't feel anxiety about not being the
Speaker 1: center of attention. We get frustrated, like I think citizens
Speaker 1: around the world and here in the country do when
Speaker 1: we see something unjust or unfair. And yes, the goal
Speaker 1: I think for us is to find new ways to
Speaker 1: have that same impact, understanding that we'll never have the
Speaker 1: exact same impact as you have in the office. But
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of the work around the foundation
Speaker 1: is you know, you said create a lot of Obamas.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that's the goal, but to you know,
Speaker 1: if ten years, twenty years down the road, there are
Speaker 1: a thousand, ten thousand, one hundred thousand young people who
Speaker 1: are now moving into positions of authority and power and
Speaker 1: in some ways have been shaped by our example in
Speaker 1: a positive way. Yeah. That that that's a legacy that
Speaker 1: may exceed anything that we did. Uh, you know while
Speaker 1: we were in uh in in our formal positions and
Speaker 1: and uh and that feels pretty good.
Speaker 2: Well, I can talk to you for hours, but luckily
Speaker 2: I have a seven hundred page book to answer the
Speaker 2: rest of my questions. Thank you for joining me, Thank
Speaker 2: you for taking the time, and uh yeah, thank you
Speaker 2: for being you, mister president aka obisl thank you for
Speaker 2: joining me on the Daily Social Enjoyed it, man.
Speaker 1: We'll do it again.
Speaker 3: Volume two Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast
Speaker 3: universe by searching The Daily Show wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 3: Watch The Daily Show week nights at eleven ten Central
Speaker 3: on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Fair
Speaker 3: Amount Plus.
Speaker 1: This has been a Comedy Central podcast