WEBVTT - Enough EVs at the Right Price Is a Good Start for Net Zero 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.000 Hi everyone. So about a month ago I bought a bike, 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:05.640 primarily for commuting once we go back to the office, 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:08.440 but also for just getting out there. It's a gravel 0:00:08.480 --> 0:00:10.600 bike built to be great on pavement, but if you 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:12.400 see a trail off to the side, you'll be fine. 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:15.280 I love it, I really do. But at the same 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:18.440 time I also bought a car. Am I happy about it? No? 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:21.439 Not really. It's my first car in seven years since 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:23.680 moving here to London from Washington, d C. When I 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:26.440 sold my last car back and said, okay, the next 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.640 one will definitely be fully electric, but it didn't happen. 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:33.440 We went fully ice or internal combustion engine. The main reasons, 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:36.400 and I'm talking as a consumer here, were charging and choice. 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.120 With charging, well, there are places to charge, you see 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:40.960 them around, but not in my flat. We only have 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:44.080 street parking and no charge points nearby. And choice. I'm 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:46.080 not in the market for a Tesla, and when I 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:48.479 was looking around, the fully electric car seemed a bit 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:50.880 fewer and further between. Maybe both these were a matter 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:52.960 of perception and I should have done more research. But 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:54.960 also maybe I'm a good proxy for the public who 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.960 needs it to be a bit easier okay, but despite 0:00:57.960 --> 0:00:59.600 the ice, it doesn't make me any less of a 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:01.320 fan of e v's and doesn't make me want one 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.600 any less. Next car will absolutely be electric, and I 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:06.399 told myself, by the time I'm in the market again, 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.800 the charging infrastructure and range of models will have caught up. Well. 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:12.280 If today's guest has anything to do with it, that 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:15.200 will absolutely be the case. Today we're joined by a 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.000 UK Member of Parliament and Parliamentary Under Secretary of State 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:21.080 at the Department for Transport, Minister for the Future of 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:24.840 Transport and Decarbonization, Rachel McClain. You'll note that the very 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.479 first thing Minister McClain says is that for the UK 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:30.720 to hit the net zero emissions target they set, they 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:34.200 need to expand the charging network and offer enough evs 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:36.760 at the right price. But during the conversation, she and 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:38.920 my co host and had of Europe, Middle Eastern Africa 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.679 for BENF Dana Perkins, look at the future of transport 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:46.000 in the UK as a whole. They discuss hydrogen trains, planes, 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.440 emission standards, bikes, scooters and how each can contribute to 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.080 zero target. Dana's interview with Minister mcclin took place as 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.880 part of the BENF London Summit on October being if 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:58.240 users can see this interview and more, including all the 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:01.000 benef analyst talks on BENF talk Com, the BENF Mumbile 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:03.480 app and the Bloomberg terminal. As a reminder, BENF does 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:05.440 not provide investment or strategy advice, and you can hear 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:07.240 the full disclaimer at the end of the show. I'm 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.639 Mark Taylor and you're listening to switch on now over 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:19.359 to Dana for her interview with Minister McClain. Minister McClain, 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:21.560 thank you so much for joining us today and taking 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:23.800 time out of your busy schedule. It's a pleasure to 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:26.160 be with you, Dana, thank you for having me along. 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.640 So let's dive right in. Let's talk about net zero 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:32.680 missions and the electric vehicle transition. So here we are, 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.240 we're in the UK, We have a twenty fifty target 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:38.680 and no doubt electric vehicles are going to play an 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.320 important part in that. So if we're looking at the 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:44.560 transition that needs to take place over the next ten 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:47.680 to maybe fifteen years, I want to know what steps, 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:49.880 what are the most significant steps you think need to 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:54.640 be taken in order to achieve that goal. In that timeline. Yeah, absolutely, 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.720 and it is a very ambitious goal, but we already 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:00.799 confident that we can meet to and what's more, we 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:04.040 are committed as a government. We think it's vitally important, 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:06.840 and we are the first major economy to actually legislate 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.840 for that net zero target. So we do have a 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:12.080 lot of work to do. And I think is anyone 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:14.680 who drives an e Vy knows whether you know you're 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.840 doing it for commercial reasons or you're just a private driver, 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:20.560 you will know that one of the key challenges is 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.959 around the infrastructure side of things, getting that charging infrastructure 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:26.720 in the right place, at the right cost, getting it 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.160 there reliably for people, and that's vital that we get 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:33.160 that right. And I think the second thing is making 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.680 sure that we have enough electric vehicles available to buy 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.280 at the right price for people. So you will know 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.400 that the government is already supporting the purchase price of 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:47.240 electric vehicles cars for private individuals, private buyers and drivers, 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:50.120 and also providing a lot of support for business customers 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:52.680 as well through plugging car grants and so on, and 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.800 helping people to get charge points installed at their homes 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:59.680 or their workplaces. But that work clearly has to continue 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.800 and it has to accelerate, and that is exactly what 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:04.920 we are committed to doing. What do you think will 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.760 be the most important mechanism in order to get As 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.119 you were discussing on prices, what do you think would 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:12.200 be the most important thing to make them accessible to 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:14.360 people at a wide range of incomes, given that they 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:17.520 are currently, at least right now more expensive than internal 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:20.039 combustion engines. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.680 of things to consider about the price of an electric vehicle. 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:26.760 There are new models coming into the market all the time, 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.360 and what we know about the automot motive industries, it's 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:34.240 fantastic at innovating. So certainly as we start to see 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:38.279 the direction of travel through legislation and also through consumer demand, 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:40.640 we know that the car industry will respond to that. 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.440 We absolutely accept it's a hard time for the car 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:47.240 industry at the moment, But even just recently we saw 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:54.280 electric vehicle registrations accelerate and really quite significantly. So there 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:55.960 are a number of people that are choosing to buy 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.360 an electric vehicle now as a percentage of all car 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:01.680 buyers is bigger than it has ever been since we 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:05.279 started keeping these records. So we have to consider the 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:08.160 overall cost of an electric vehicle, and of course, if 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:10.960 you are not filling up at the pump, you're saving 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.159 a huge amount of money. You're you're keeping cash in 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:15.400 your pocket that you would have been, you know, putting 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:19.120 into your petrol or diesel tank. So we are providing 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:22.159 a lot of support for people with that initial purchase price, 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:24.400 and that is in place at the moment for the 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.039 foreseeable future, but we will have to keep that under 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:29.640 review as we consider, you know, where do we invest 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:34.239 government cash in this infrastructure transition and this revolution towards 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.360 electric driving. So you're saying the record number of electric 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.560 vehicles are being purchased. Do you think it is that 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.920 cost savings at the pump that's driving it or what 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:46.599 do you think is the primary reason people are buying them? Well, 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:50.640 I genuinely think that is a real mindset shift with people, 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:54.040 and we saw it before COVID, but I think COVID 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.080 has brought it to the fall and we've seen people 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.840 really think about the fact that they did really like 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.919 the fact that their air was clean, that their streets 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:06.520 were clean during the lockdown period. It made them appreciate 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.200 if you like the health of our planet, how everything 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:12.120 is connected, and it made them consider the choices that 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.080 they're making in all areas of their lives. And so 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:17.800 we as a government, we really welcome that and we 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:20.680 are committed to a green recovery across all of the 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:23.640 work that we're doing. So it now is a real 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.880 moment I think for people who are coming into the 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:30.880 market looking at what's available, um and thinking about doing 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:33.520 that for I think for the sort of the right reasons, 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:36.520 if you like, thinking about the environmental reasons as well 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:40.400 of course of that cost factor, So taking into account 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.279 the overall cost of ownership of an electric vehicle, it 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.080 can work out significantly cheaper over the long term. So 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.320 let's talk a little bit about the emission standards and 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:51.359 kind of the role the government has to play in 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.560 looking at some of this. In the EU, you know 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:58.200 they have some pretty aggressive emission standards coming out with 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:01.760 the UK. Do you think they're the policies here are 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:06.960 going to make the electric vehicle transition faster, slower? You know, 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.279 they're going to be stricter, they're going to be more relaxed. 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.280 And how will that come into play as we leave 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:16.040 the European Union? So obviously as we're leaving the European Union, 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:19.240 all the regulations that were part of the EU law 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:21.080 but will be brought into our law, so we will 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.600 have those standards that domestically as the EU did. But 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.240 we are currently consulting on what will our standards look 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.280 like after the end of the transition period, and we 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:32.760 will see the consult that the results of that consultation 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.680 very soon. But we've been very clear that we're going 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:38.880 to be at least as ambitious as the EU in 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.840 our emission standards because we want to be leading in 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.800 this area, and we see the opportunity of leaving the 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:46.960 EU as a chance for us to set our own 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:49.520 standards as right for our own market, right for our 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.960 own environment. So that's great. And you actually actually also 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:56.760 pointed out a little bit earlier that the automakers have 0:07:57.520 --> 0:07:59.880 a tremendous amount of innovation when they put their my 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.320 into it. So what, well, you think it will be 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.520 the best way in order to incentiviz that I don't 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:07.880 maker is to be a part of the emissions reduction strategy. Well, 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.560 I have regular conversations with all the automakers and I 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:12.360 can tell you that they are absolutely up for the 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.880 challenge and they definitely have already got very advanced plans 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.400 almost all of them to go to a sort of 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:22.080 zero carbon or a very low carbon product range. But 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:24.360 it is important that we as government support them in this. 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:27.240 It's a vital industry employing thousands of people up and 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.239 down the UK with highly skilled jobs, you know, lots 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.920 of different areas of the country. So we have made 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.080 available one and a half billion pounds already to help 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:39.160 them make that transition to new forms of technology, and 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.240 we know we need to continue to work hand in 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:45.320 hand with the industry on issues like batteries, supplier batteries, 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.359 how our batteries recycled, to help them develop that technology 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:51.280 that they will need to grasp this new opportunity. There's 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:53.720 a very constructive relationship that we have with them. So 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:58.719 in terms of technology advancements, one that is looking very 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.360 promising at the moment act switching tracks a little bit 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.440 is onto hydrogen in particular for the heart to abate sectors. 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:08.520 So what are some of the more promising things that 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.720 you think are happening over at the Department of Transportation 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:14.400 when it comes to hydrogen, And then additionally, like what 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:17.440 are some of the benchmarks that you're looking for in areas, 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:21.520 let's say aviation, that show us that we're succeeding. You 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:23.280 know what, what things are you looking for, and I 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:25.960 think therefore we should be looking for So we we 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:30.200 definitely see a future in hydrogen across the department. We 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.800 we maintain a technology neutral approach, so we don't necessarily 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:37.400 pick or choose one particular technology, but we definitely think 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:40.559 hydrogen has got a very significant role to play, as 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.400 you mentioned in some of those harder to de carbonized sectors, 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:47.880 specifically the harder, the heavier sectors such as maritime such 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:51.600 as the freight sector, and potentially aviation as well. We've 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:55.360 already seen a hydrogen fueled plane take off this last week, 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.720 and there's also potentially in trains as well, and I 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:00.959 think it's really exciting to to see the development of 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:04.600 the hydrogen policy. Now. Last week I was lucky enough 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:08.679 to go to Middlesborough to actually open the first Hydrogen 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.800 for Transport hub, and what we're doing with that is 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.840 we are looking to see how transport can actually work 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.839 on the ground in a specific location, so we can 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.400 consider all the different parts of the hydrogen ecosystem. For example, 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:23.760 the fueling, Where does the power come from, how do 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:25.880 we get the hydrogen, how do we actually make it 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.760 work at scale in a location with buses and lorries 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.479 and and ships and all the different modes of transport. 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:34.800 So there's a lot more work to do as we 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:38.079 develop that technology even further because at the moment it 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:40.840 does need to sort of overcome some hurdles in terms 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.360 of that mass commercialization, particularly with the green hydrogen, and 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.280 that's where where we want to go with it. So 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.120 it's an exciting time for it and we are investing 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:53.520 heavily in the R and D for hydrogen. There are 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.720 some physical limitations to hydrogen. Do you think that there 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:59.199 is a specific part of the UK that's going to 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:01.880 benefit more from this incubation or is it too early 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:04.800 to tell? Well, we it is a bit early to tell. 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:08.600 We picked Middlesbrough tea Side for our first transport hub 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.240 out of a number of places actually because it does 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.840 have all the right capacity for our initial work. It's 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:18.480 got apport, it's got access to renewable energy, it's got 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:21.240 a it's got a very highly developed skills base and 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:24.400 also it's got a fantastic university there with the cutting 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.280 edge R and D research, so it had all the 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:29.480 factors there, but there's no reason why other areas of 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.360 the UK couldn't also benefit. There's some great work going 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.680 on in Scotland, for example, and any facts across the UK, 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:38.040 So we want to see it spread out across all 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.720 areas that can benefit in the future. Well, so let's 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:44.160 talk about COVID. It's definitely on the top of everyone's 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.160 minds and I think it's I can say that it's 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:48.920 changed everybody's lives in a lot of different ways. And 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:50.400 one of those that I think we're just at the 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:53.760 beginning of seeing is maybe a move of people out 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:58.600 of cities and maybe having eventually longer commutes but less frequently. 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.120 And we know right now those communites actually need to 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:05.240 be much less densely packed. So that changes everything for 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:07.920 the rail network in terms of how they make their money. 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:11.200 And my question is really around do you think that 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.480 there will need to be ongoing government intervention in the 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.600 rail networks in order to keep these you know, commuter 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.320 trains running. Well. I think you're right to point to 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.840 a huge shift in society and in the way that 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.199 we work, and I don't think that's fully played out yet. 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.480 But but certainly the governments recognized that we do need 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.679 to underwrite the rail network, certainly at the moment, and 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.920 that's why you know, you've seen that process take place. 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.240 We've kept the trains running even though there's very little 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.640 revenue coming in from them. I have noticed myself because 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.520 I've had to carry on commuting basically through through most 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.240 of the lockdown because we will call back to Westminster, 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.480 as you probably know, so I've had to trouvel by 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.640 train from my constituency and it was very very quiet 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:54.600 at the beginning, but the numbers are started to pick 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.840 up now and so the message that we are sort 0:12:57.840 --> 0:12:59.680 of putting out there's a Department of Transport is it 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:01.640 is so to travel the the train of freights Income 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.400 has It's done a fantastic job actually cleaning those trains, 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:09.000 making them safe, making sure everybody can feel comfortable to 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:12.480 travel and wearing face masks. So it's a bit too 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:14.760 early to see how it's it's going to play out, 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.320 but at the top of the time, big it is 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.240 safe to travel and it's a much greener way of 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:20.480 traveling down getting in a car. Okay, so let's say 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:22.520 you're not taking the train and you live close enough 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.040 to do those short trips, and I am seeing bike 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.240 lanes open up all over London actually at the moment, 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.880 and I am now a pride proud bike owner and 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:33.680 I'm going to be doing my commute by a bike. 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.040 So in this micro mobility space, you know, Actually, another 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:40.280 thing that has become popular have been these electric scooters, 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:44.360 which are currently not yet legal. What do you foresee 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:48.120 happening with those? Is there a path to legalization? And 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:50.640 also how big of an impact do you think micro 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:55.160 mobility can have so bikes and electric little scooters on 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:58.520 the overall emissions reduction strategy. Well, well don't you getting 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.000 on your bloke actually b already because well at the weekend, 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.439 and it is fantastics, it's very hearly where I live. 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:06.440 So it's been a bit of a revelation. But yeah, ea, 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.400 scooters are are really quite a very very new and 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:13.160 potentially very exciting policy area actually, and I think what 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:15.560 we we took the view that well, look, you know 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.800 these are available in pretty much every other European country 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.240 that you go to, and we know that there is 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.600 a demand for them. We know that people are using 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:27.200 them illegally. As you say, you know it very clear 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:29.520 it is illegal to ride them at the moment unless 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.320 you're in a trial area. But in recognition of the 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.080 fact that we are in a global pandemic, we're in 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:37.880 an extraordinary situation where there were issues with getting on 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.800 public transport, but at the same time we wanted to 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:44.280 maintain our commitment to greener forms of transport. That's why 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:46.800 we brought forward the trials of East scooters, which are 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.480 now taking place in a few areas, not in London yet, 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.320 but they're taking place in about half a dozen areas 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:53.960 of the UK, and we'll have a few more coming 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:55.920 on stream as well, and I think there is a 0:14:56.000 --> 0:15:01.160 huge potential in EAST scooters. They don't replace cycles or walking. 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:04.720 They are an alternative for people who may choose to 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:07.560 use them on a certain day for a certain journey 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:09.880 where it may not be appropriate or may not be 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.400 their preference to use a bike. But it's certainly a 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:15.920 very good alternative if you are make if you were 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.000 going to make a very short journey by a car, 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:21.040 to use an e scooter instead. And that's how we 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.840 see it playing into the mix. Because we know that 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.640 we know that vast numbers of car journeys are very 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:30.240 short there, three or four and maybe even five miles, 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:32.800 and it's entirely foreseeable that someone would use an e 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.640 scooter that that type of journey, and you imagine the 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.760 potential reduction in carbon and greenhouse gas that's going to 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:40.800 be achieved if we can shift even a few of 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.480 those car journeys onto the scooters or indeed on other 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:47.480 forms of micro mobility vehicles. We are looking across the 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:50.880 board actually where we could potentially introduce other forms of 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.080 slightly new vehicles that are out there. I mean, I'm 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.480 all in favor of innovation, and some of these scenes 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.160 can help people get around people with mobility issues that 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.120 you know, may we can't cycle or walk. So I 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:04.000 think it's right that we free up this sort of 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.320 innovation as long as we're doing it safely, which we are. 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:08.560 What are some other examples of things that you guys 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:12.120 are looking at? So got the electric scooters and bikes 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:14.240 and electric bikes. What are some other things on the 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:16.840 kind of cutting edge tech wise? There's a lot of 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:19.600 sort of work in progress going on. We we obviously 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:23.640 are a leader in this country in sort of automated automation, 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:28.000 self driving vehicles as well, so that that's work is 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:30.680 coming on stream. There's quite a lot of vehicles in 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:32.800 the sort of what we call the novel vehicle category. 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.280 So as well as the scooters that you see there 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:39.200 are seeded scooters very beneficial for some people. There's a 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:43.760 smaller vehicles that don't really it's a broad class of 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:46.120 vehicles called L class vehicles, and there's some things in 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.840 there that are really quite cool and look quite futuristic. 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:52.320 So we're examining how we can enable some of these 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.400 new vehicles to come to the market and be safely 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.520 adopted onto our roads across the UK Okay, so hopefully 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:03.320 they make a different and send those shorthaul last miles traveled. Well. 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:07.119 So yeah, let's go back to emissions and some of 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:09.440 the other ways that the Department of Transportation may be 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.680 thinking of incubating new ideas. I think we know where 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.080 we need to get to, but it's not entirely clear 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.480 how we're going to get there, and we're going to 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.960 need to run some experiments and take some chances. What 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:25.040 are some areas where you think we maybe aren't even 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.440 yet but could be collecting data and taking a few 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:32.760 more experiments to really push innovation. We recognize that we 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:35.520 do have, you know, a lot to work through in 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.000 order to reach this target. What we've been doing is 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:40.600 working across the whole department Transport, introducing what we've called 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:44.240 the Transport Decarbonization Plan. That's been a very significant piece 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.720 of work over the summer months. We will be publishing 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:48.560 that plan actually before the end of the year, and 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:50.879 that's where you will see a lot more specifics around 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.600 how we intend to get there, what is the pathway, 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.320 Where where are we going to change our policy in 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.919 or to decarbonize various sectors. But I think to your question, 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.240 and I think for me, one of the key focuses 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:06.159 is obviously touching on the infrastructure feed that we've already mentioned. 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.479 I think the whole error of freight is huge, and 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:11.840 that's not just heavy freight, but it's also you mentioned 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:14.040 the last mile, it's the last mile deliveries, it's the 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.680 smaller freight deliveries that are taking place now while people 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.680 are working from home. I think we can actually really 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:23.840 accelerate the work around this sort of zero emission automated 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.800 logistics side of things. Data will be key for that. 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:29.159 It's how do we gather the data, how do we 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:31.480 use it really in a really smart way to figure 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:34.760 out where are people actually, where the demand is, where 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:36.840 the where the supply is, how we can bring that 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:39.080 together and cut down on a lot of sort of 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:42.439 unnecessary driving around and also free up space on the 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.119 streets for some of the you know, the micromeability vehicles 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:47.359 that we've essentially talked about. I mean, there are the 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.560 things that kind of happen behind the curtain, so to speak, 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.480 and then the things that really are part of everybody's 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.040 lives and and really behavior change. So what do you 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:57.919 think the main things that are going to meet to 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.919 be done in order to encourag behavior change? And I 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.879 think the Transport Decorganization Plan is meant to be a 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:08.439 part of get behavior change is absolutely vital. And we 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:10.560 know that government's got a really big job there in 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.399 terms of giving people that confidence that there is going 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:15.720 to be an electric big charge points at their destination 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:18.080 for example. So you know, we work hand in hand 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:20.720 with with the providers. But I think it also comes 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:23.280 down to really simple things like, for example, if if 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:24.760 you know that it's going to be easy for you 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.200 to put your bike on a train, or if you 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:29.400 you know if it's really easy for you to actually 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.240 charge your electric vehicle at home. So there's issues around 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.080 for people who don't happen to live you know, someone 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:38.640 where the drive. So we have to tackle those sorts 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.200 of problems as well. We have to remove those barriers 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:45.200 of people. But but we do know that we're we're 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.359 a social race, you know not, So we're we're are 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:51.560