Speaker 1: Hi everyone. So about a month ago I bought a bike,
Speaker 1: primarily for commuting once we go back to the office,
Speaker 1: but also for just getting out there. It's a gravel
Speaker 1: bike built to be great on pavement, but if you
Speaker 1: see a trail off to the side, you'll be fine.
Speaker 1: I love it, I really do. But at the same
Speaker 1: time I also bought a car. Am I happy about it? No?
Speaker 1: Not really. It's my first car in seven years since
Speaker 1: moving here to London from Washington, d C. When I
Speaker 1: sold my last car back and said, okay, the next
Speaker 1: one will definitely be fully electric, but it didn't happen.
Speaker 1: We went fully ice or internal combustion engine. The main reasons,
Speaker 1: and I'm talking as a consumer here, were charging and choice.
Speaker 1: With charging, well, there are places to charge, you see
Speaker 1: them around, but not in my flat. We only have
Speaker 1: street parking and no charge points nearby. And choice. I'm
Speaker 1: not in the market for a Tesla, and when I
Speaker 1: was looking around, the fully electric car seemed a bit
Speaker 1: fewer and further between. Maybe both these were a matter
Speaker 1: of perception and I should have done more research. But
Speaker 1: also maybe I'm a good proxy for the public who
Speaker 1: needs it to be a bit easier okay, but despite
Speaker 1: the ice, it doesn't make me any less of a
Speaker 1: fan of e v's and doesn't make me want one
Speaker 1: any less. Next car will absolutely be electric, and I
Speaker 1: told myself, by the time I'm in the market again,
Speaker 1: the charging infrastructure and range of models will have caught up. Well.
Speaker 1: If today's guest has anything to do with it, that
Speaker 1: will absolutely be the case. Today we're joined by a
Speaker 1: UK Member of Parliament and Parliamentary Under Secretary of State
Speaker 1: at the Department for Transport, Minister for the Future of
Speaker 1: Transport and Decarbonization, Rachel McClain. You'll note that the very
Speaker 1: first thing Minister McClain says is that for the UK
Speaker 1: to hit the net zero emissions target they set, they
Speaker 1: need to expand the charging network and offer enough evs
Speaker 1: at the right price. But during the conversation, she and
Speaker 1: my co host and had of Europe, Middle Eastern Africa
Speaker 1: for BENF Dana Perkins, look at the future of transport
Speaker 1: in the UK as a whole. They discuss hydrogen trains, planes,
Speaker 1: emission standards, bikes, scooters and how each can contribute to
Speaker 1: zero target. Dana's interview with Minister mcclin took place as
Speaker 1: part of the BENF London Summit on October being if
Speaker 1: users can see this interview and more, including all the
Speaker 1: benef analyst talks on BENF talk Com, the BENF Mumbile
Speaker 1: app and the Bloomberg terminal. As a reminder, BENF does
Speaker 1: not provide investment or strategy advice, and you can hear
Speaker 1: the full disclaimer at the end of the show. I'm
Speaker 1: Mark Taylor and you're listening to switch on now over
Speaker 1: to Dana for her interview with Minister McClain. Minister McClain,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today and taking
Speaker 1: time out of your busy schedule. It's a pleasure to
Speaker 1: be with you, Dana, thank you for having me along.
Speaker 1: So let's dive right in. Let's talk about net zero
Speaker 1: missions and the electric vehicle transition. So here we are,
Speaker 1: we're in the UK, We have a twenty fifty target
Speaker 1: and no doubt electric vehicles are going to play an
Speaker 1: important part in that. So if we're looking at the
Speaker 1: transition that needs to take place over the next ten
Speaker 1: to maybe fifteen years, I want to know what steps,
Speaker 1: what are the most significant steps you think need to
Speaker 1: be taken in order to achieve that goal. In that timeline. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: and it is a very ambitious goal, but we already
Speaker 1: confident that we can meet to and what's more, we
Speaker 1: are committed as a government. We think it's vitally important,
Speaker 1: and we are the first major economy to actually legislate
Speaker 1: for that net zero target. So we do have a
Speaker 1: lot of work to do. And I think is anyone
Speaker 1: who drives an e Vy knows whether you know you're
Speaker 1: doing it for commercial reasons or you're just a private driver,
Speaker 1: you will know that one of the key challenges is
Speaker 1: around the infrastructure side of things, getting that charging infrastructure
Speaker 1: in the right place, at the right cost, getting it
Speaker 1: there reliably for people, and that's vital that we get
Speaker 1: that right. And I think the second thing is making
Speaker 1: sure that we have enough electric vehicles available to buy
Speaker 1: at the right price for people. So you will know
Speaker 1: that the government is already supporting the purchase price of
Speaker 1: electric vehicles cars for private individuals, private buyers and drivers,
Speaker 1: and also providing a lot of support for business customers
Speaker 1: as well through plugging car grants and so on, and
Speaker 1: helping people to get charge points installed at their homes
Speaker 1: or their workplaces. But that work clearly has to continue
Speaker 1: and it has to accelerate, and that is exactly what
Speaker 1: we are committed to doing. What do you think will
Speaker 1: be the most important mechanism in order to get As
Speaker 1: you were discussing on prices, what do you think would
Speaker 1: be the most important thing to make them accessible to
Speaker 1: people at a wide range of incomes, given that they
Speaker 1: are currently, at least right now more expensive than internal
Speaker 1: combustion engines. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple
Speaker 1: of things to consider about the price of an electric vehicle.
Speaker 1: There are new models coming into the market all the time,
Speaker 1: and what we know about the automot motive industries, it's
Speaker 1: fantastic at innovating. So certainly as we start to see
Speaker 1: the direction of travel through legislation and also through consumer demand,
Speaker 1: we know that the car industry will respond to that.
Speaker 1: We absolutely accept it's a hard time for the car
Speaker 1: industry at the moment, But even just recently we saw
Speaker 1: electric vehicle registrations accelerate and really quite significantly. So there
Speaker 1: are a number of people that are choosing to buy
Speaker 1: an electric vehicle now as a percentage of all car
Speaker 1: buyers is bigger than it has ever been since we
Speaker 1: started keeping these records. So we have to consider the
Speaker 1: overall cost of an electric vehicle, and of course, if
Speaker 1: you are not filling up at the pump, you're saving
Speaker 1: a huge amount of money. You're you're keeping cash in
Speaker 1: your pocket that you would have been, you know, putting
Speaker 1: into your petrol or diesel tank. So we are providing
Speaker 1: a lot of support for people with that initial purchase price,
Speaker 1: and that is in place at the moment for the
Speaker 1: foreseeable future, but we will have to keep that under
Speaker 1: review as we consider, you know, where do we invest
Speaker 1: government cash in this infrastructure transition and this revolution towards
Speaker 1: electric driving. So you're saying the record number of electric
Speaker 1: vehicles are being purchased. Do you think it is that
Speaker 1: cost savings at the pump that's driving it or what
Speaker 1: do you think is the primary reason people are buying them? Well,
Speaker 1: I genuinely think that is a real mindset shift with people,
Speaker 1: and we saw it before COVID, but I think COVID
Speaker 1: has brought it to the fall and we've seen people
Speaker 1: really think about the fact that they did really like
Speaker 1: the fact that their air was clean, that their streets
Speaker 1: were clean during the lockdown period. It made them appreciate
Speaker 1: if you like the health of our planet, how everything
Speaker 1: is connected, and it made them consider the choices that
Speaker 1: they're making in all areas of their lives. And so
Speaker 1: we as a government, we really welcome that and we
Speaker 1: are committed to a green recovery across all of the
Speaker 1: work that we're doing. So it now is a real
Speaker 1: moment I think for people who are coming into the
Speaker 1: market looking at what's available, um and thinking about doing
Speaker 1: that for I think for the sort of the right reasons,
Speaker 1: if you like, thinking about the environmental reasons as well
Speaker 1: of course of that cost factor, So taking into account
Speaker 1: the overall cost of ownership of an electric vehicle, it
Speaker 1: can work out significantly cheaper over the long term. So
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about the emission standards and
Speaker 1: kind of the role the government has to play in
Speaker 1: looking at some of this. In the EU, you know
Speaker 1: they have some pretty aggressive emission standards coming out with
Speaker 1: the UK. Do you think they're the policies here are
Speaker 1: going to make the electric vehicle transition faster, slower? You know,
Speaker 1: they're going to be stricter, they're going to be more relaxed.
Speaker 1: And how will that come into play as we leave
Speaker 1: the European Union? So obviously as we're leaving the European Union,
Speaker 1: all the regulations that were part of the EU law
Speaker 1: but will be brought into our law, so we will
Speaker 1: have those standards that domestically as the EU did. But
Speaker 1: we are currently consulting on what will our standards look
Speaker 1: like after the end of the transition period, and we
Speaker 1: will see the consult that the results of that consultation
Speaker 1: very soon. But we've been very clear that we're going
Speaker 1: to be at least as ambitious as the EU in
Speaker 1: our emission standards because we want to be leading in
Speaker 1: this area, and we see the opportunity of leaving the
Speaker 1: EU as a chance for us to set our own
Speaker 1: standards as right for our own market, right for our
Speaker 1: own environment. So that's great. And you actually actually also
Speaker 1: pointed out a little bit earlier that the automakers have
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of innovation when they put their my
Speaker 1: into it. So what, well, you think it will be
Speaker 1: the best way in order to incentiviz that I don't
Speaker 1: maker is to be a part of the emissions reduction strategy. Well,
Speaker 1: I have regular conversations with all the automakers and I
Speaker 1: can tell you that they are absolutely up for the
Speaker 1: challenge and they definitely have already got very advanced plans
Speaker 1: almost all of them to go to a sort of
Speaker 1: zero carbon or a very low carbon product range. But
Speaker 1: it is important that we as government support them in this.
Speaker 1: It's a vital industry employing thousands of people up and
Speaker 1: down the UK with highly skilled jobs, you know, lots
Speaker 1: of different areas of the country. So we have made
Speaker 1: available one and a half billion pounds already to help
Speaker 1: them make that transition to new forms of technology, and
Speaker 1: we know we need to continue to work hand in
Speaker 1: hand with the industry on issues like batteries, supplier batteries,
Speaker 1: how our batteries recycled, to help them develop that technology
Speaker 1: that they will need to grasp this new opportunity. There's
Speaker 1: a very constructive relationship that we have with them. So
Speaker 1: in terms of technology advancements, one that is looking very
Speaker 1: promising at the moment act switching tracks a little bit
Speaker 1: is onto hydrogen in particular for the heart to abate sectors.
Speaker 1: So what are some of the more promising things that
Speaker 1: you think are happening over at the Department of Transportation
Speaker 1: when it comes to hydrogen, And then additionally, like what
Speaker 1: are some of the benchmarks that you're looking for in areas,
Speaker 1: let's say aviation, that show us that we're succeeding. You
Speaker 1: know what, what things are you looking for, and I
Speaker 1: think therefore we should be looking for So we we
Speaker 1: definitely see a future in hydrogen across the department. We
Speaker 1: we maintain a technology neutral approach, so we don't necessarily
Speaker 1: pick or choose one particular technology, but we definitely think
Speaker 1: hydrogen has got a very significant role to play, as
Speaker 1: you mentioned in some of those harder to de carbonized sectors,
Speaker 1: specifically the harder, the heavier sectors such as maritime such
Speaker 1: as the freight sector, and potentially aviation as well. We've
Speaker 1: already seen a hydrogen fueled plane take off this last week,
Speaker 1: and there's also potentially in trains as well, and I
Speaker 1: think it's really exciting to to see the development of
Speaker 1: the hydrogen policy. Now. Last week I was lucky enough
Speaker 1: to go to Middlesborough to actually open the first Hydrogen
Speaker 1: for Transport hub, and what we're doing with that is
Speaker 1: we are looking to see how transport can actually work
Speaker 1: on the ground in a specific location, so we can
Speaker 1: consider all the different parts of the hydrogen ecosystem. For example,
Speaker 1: the fueling, Where does the power come from, how do
Speaker 1: we get the hydrogen, how do we actually make it
Speaker 1: work at scale in a location with buses and lorries
Speaker 1: and and ships and all the different modes of transport.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot more work to do as we
Speaker 1: develop that technology even further because at the moment it
Speaker 1: does need to sort of overcome some hurdles in terms
Speaker 1: of that mass commercialization, particularly with the green hydrogen, and
Speaker 1: that's where where we want to go with it. So
Speaker 1: it's an exciting time for it and we are investing
Speaker 1: heavily in the R and D for hydrogen. There are
Speaker 1: some physical limitations to hydrogen. Do you think that there
Speaker 1: is a specific part of the UK that's going to
Speaker 1: benefit more from this incubation or is it too early
Speaker 1: to tell? Well, we it is a bit early to tell.
Speaker 1: We picked Middlesbrough tea Side for our first transport hub
Speaker 1: out of a number of places actually because it does
Speaker 1: have all the right capacity for our initial work. It's
Speaker 1: got apport, it's got access to renewable energy, it's got
Speaker 1: a it's got a very highly developed skills base and
Speaker 1: also it's got a fantastic university there with the cutting
Speaker 1: edge R and D research, so it had all the
Speaker 1: factors there, but there's no reason why other areas of
Speaker 1: the UK couldn't also benefit. There's some great work going
Speaker 1: on in Scotland, for example, and any facts across the UK,
Speaker 1: So we want to see it spread out across all
Speaker 1: areas that can benefit in the future. Well, so let's
Speaker 1: talk about COVID. It's definitely on the top of everyone's
Speaker 1: minds and I think it's I can say that it's
Speaker 1: changed everybody's lives in a lot of different ways. And
Speaker 1: one of those that I think we're just at the
Speaker 1: beginning of seeing is maybe a move of people out
Speaker 1: of cities and maybe having eventually longer commutes but less frequently.
Speaker 1: And we know right now those communites actually need to
Speaker 1: be much less densely packed. So that changes everything for
Speaker 1: the rail network in terms of how they make their money.
Speaker 1: And my question is really around do you think that
Speaker 1: there will need to be ongoing government intervention in the
Speaker 1: rail networks in order to keep these you know, commuter
Speaker 1: trains running. Well. I think you're right to point to
Speaker 1: a huge shift in society and in the way that
Speaker 1: we work, and I don't think that's fully played out yet.
Speaker 1: But but certainly the governments recognized that we do need
Speaker 1: to underwrite the rail network, certainly at the moment, and
Speaker 1: that's why you know, you've seen that process take place.
Speaker 1: We've kept the trains running even though there's very little
Speaker 1: revenue coming in from them. I have noticed myself because
Speaker 1: I've had to carry on commuting basically through through most
Speaker 1: of the lockdown because we will call back to Westminster,
Speaker 1: as you probably know, so I've had to trouvel by
Speaker 1: train from my constituency and it was very very quiet
Speaker 1: at the beginning, but the numbers are started to pick
Speaker 1: up now and so the message that we are sort
Speaker 1: of putting out there's a Department of Transport is it
Speaker 1: is so to travel the the train of freights Income
Speaker 1: has It's done a fantastic job actually cleaning those trains,
Speaker 1: making them safe, making sure everybody can feel comfortable to
Speaker 1: travel and wearing face masks. So it's a bit too
Speaker 1: early to see how it's it's going to play out,
Speaker 1: but at the top of the time, big it is
Speaker 1: safe to travel and it's a much greener way of
Speaker 1: traveling down getting in a car. Okay, so let's say
Speaker 1: you're not taking the train and you live close enough
Speaker 1: to do those short trips, and I am seeing bike
Speaker 1: lanes open up all over London actually at the moment,
Speaker 1: and I am now a pride proud bike owner and
Speaker 1: I'm going to be doing my commute by a bike.
Speaker 1: So in this micro mobility space, you know, Actually, another
Speaker 1: thing that has become popular have been these electric scooters,
Speaker 1: which are currently not yet legal. What do you foresee
Speaker 1: happening with those? Is there a path to legalization? And
Speaker 1: also how big of an impact do you think micro
Speaker 1: mobility can have so bikes and electric little scooters on
Speaker 1: the overall emissions reduction strategy. Well, well don't you getting
Speaker 1: on your bloke actually b already because well at the weekend,
Speaker 1: and it is fantastics, it's very hearly where I live.
Speaker 1: So it's been a bit of a revelation. But yeah, ea,
Speaker 1: scooters are are really quite a very very new and
Speaker 1: potentially very exciting policy area actually, and I think what
Speaker 1: we we took the view that well, look, you know
Speaker 1: these are available in pretty much every other European country
Speaker 1: that you go to, and we know that there is
Speaker 1: a demand for them. We know that people are using
Speaker 1: them illegally. As you say, you know it very clear
Speaker 1: it is illegal to ride them at the moment unless
Speaker 1: you're in a trial area. But in recognition of the
Speaker 1: fact that we are in a global pandemic, we're in
Speaker 1: an extraordinary situation where there were issues with getting on
Speaker 1: public transport, but at the same time we wanted to
Speaker 1: maintain our commitment to greener forms of transport. That's why
Speaker 1: we brought forward the trials of East scooters, which are
Speaker 1: now taking place in a few areas, not in London yet,
Speaker 1: but they're taking place in about half a dozen areas
Speaker 1: of the UK, and we'll have a few more coming
Speaker 1: on stream as well, and I think there is a
Speaker 1: huge potential in EAST scooters. They don't replace cycles or walking.
Speaker 1: They are an alternative for people who may choose to
Speaker 1: use them on a certain day for a certain journey
Speaker 1: where it may not be appropriate or may not be
Speaker 1: their preference to use a bike. But it's certainly a
Speaker 1: very good alternative if you are make if you were
Speaker 1: going to make a very short journey by a car,
Speaker 1: to use an e scooter instead. And that's how we
Speaker 1: see it playing into the mix. Because we know that
Speaker 1: we know that vast numbers of car journeys are very
Speaker 1: short there, three or four and maybe even five miles,
Speaker 1: and it's entirely foreseeable that someone would use an e
Speaker 1: scooter that that type of journey, and you imagine the
Speaker 1: potential reduction in carbon and greenhouse gas that's going to
Speaker 1: be achieved if we can shift even a few of
Speaker 1: those car journeys onto the scooters or indeed on other
Speaker 1: forms of micro mobility vehicles. We are looking across the
Speaker 1: board actually where we could potentially introduce other forms of
Speaker 1: slightly new vehicles that are out there. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: all in favor of innovation, and some of these scenes
Speaker 1: can help people get around people with mobility issues that
Speaker 1: you know, may we can't cycle or walk. So I
Speaker 1: think it's right that we free up this sort of
Speaker 1: innovation as long as we're doing it safely, which we are.
Speaker 1: What are some other examples of things that you guys
Speaker 1: are looking at? So got the electric scooters and bikes
Speaker 1: and electric bikes. What are some other things on the
Speaker 1: kind of cutting edge tech wise? There's a lot of
Speaker 1: sort of work in progress going on. We we obviously
Speaker 1: are a leader in this country in sort of automated automation,
Speaker 1: self driving vehicles as well, so that that's work is
Speaker 1: coming on stream. There's quite a lot of vehicles in
Speaker 1: the sort of what we call the novel vehicle category.
Speaker 1: So as well as the scooters that you see there
Speaker 1: are seeded scooters very beneficial for some people. There's a
Speaker 1: smaller vehicles that don't really it's a broad class of
Speaker 1: vehicles called L class vehicles, and there's some things in
Speaker 1: there that are really quite cool and look quite futuristic.
Speaker 1: So we're examining how we can enable some of these
Speaker 1: new vehicles to come to the market and be safely
Speaker 1: adopted onto our roads across the UK Okay, so hopefully
Speaker 1: they make a different and send those shorthaul last miles traveled. Well.
Speaker 1: So yeah, let's go back to emissions and some of
Speaker 1: the other ways that the Department of Transportation may be
Speaker 1: thinking of incubating new ideas. I think we know where
Speaker 1: we need to get to, but it's not entirely clear
Speaker 1: how we're going to get there, and we're going to
Speaker 1: need to run some experiments and take some chances. What
Speaker 1: are some areas where you think we maybe aren't even
Speaker 1: yet but could be collecting data and taking a few
Speaker 1: more experiments to really push innovation. We recognize that we
Speaker 1: do have, you know, a lot to work through in
Speaker 1: order to reach this target. What we've been doing is
Speaker 1: working across the whole department Transport, introducing what we've called
Speaker 1: the Transport Decarbonization Plan. That's been a very significant piece
Speaker 1: of work over the summer months. We will be publishing
Speaker 1: that plan actually before the end of the year, and
Speaker 1: that's where you will see a lot more specifics around
Speaker 1: how we intend to get there, what is the pathway,
Speaker 1: Where where are we going to change our policy in
Speaker 1: or to decarbonize various sectors. But I think to your question,
Speaker 1: and I think for me, one of the key focuses
Speaker 1: is obviously touching on the infrastructure feed that we've already mentioned.
Speaker 1: I think the whole error of freight is huge, and
Speaker 1: that's not just heavy freight, but it's also you mentioned
Speaker 1: the last mile, it's the last mile deliveries, it's the
Speaker 1: smaller freight deliveries that are taking place now while people
Speaker 1: are working from home. I think we can actually really
Speaker 1: accelerate the work around this sort of zero emission automated
Speaker 1: logistics side of things. Data will be key for that.
Speaker 1: It's how do we gather the data, how do we
Speaker 1: use it really in a really smart way to figure
Speaker 1: out where are people actually, where the demand is, where
Speaker 1: the where the supply is, how we can bring that
Speaker 1: together and cut down on a lot of sort of
Speaker 1: unnecessary driving around and also free up space on the
Speaker 1: streets for some of the you know, the micromeability vehicles
Speaker 1: that we've essentially talked about. I mean, there are the
Speaker 1: things that kind of happen behind the curtain, so to speak,
Speaker 1: and then the things that really are part of everybody's
Speaker 1: lives and and really behavior change. So what do you
Speaker 1: think the main things that are going to meet to
Speaker 1: be done in order to encourag behavior change? And I
Speaker 1: think the Transport Decorganization Plan is meant to be a
Speaker 1: part of get behavior change is absolutely vital. And we
Speaker 1: know that government's got a really big job there in
Speaker 1: terms of giving people that confidence that there is going
Speaker 1: to be an electric big charge points at their destination
Speaker 1: for example. So you know, we work hand in hand
Speaker 1: with with the providers. But I think it also comes
Speaker 1: down to really simple things like, for example, if if
Speaker 1: you know that it's going to be easy for you
Speaker 1: to put your bike on a train, or if you
Speaker 1: you know if it's really easy for you to actually
Speaker 1: charge your electric vehicle at home. So there's issues around
Speaker 1: for people who don't happen to live you know, someone
Speaker 1: where the drive. So we have to tackle those sorts
Speaker 1: of problems as well. We have to remove those barriers
Speaker 1: of people. But but we do know that we're we're
Speaker 1: a social race, you know not, So we're we're are
Speaker 1: social beings, aren't we. So we are very much influenced
Speaker 1: by what people around us are doing. So we believe
Speaker 1: that and behavioral science that we've done actually bears this
Speaker 1: out that the more that we see other people like
Speaker 1: us adopting zero zero emission falls of transport and enjoying
Speaker 1: it and seeing the benefits, the more that we will
Speaker 1: see that mass adoption. So it is very much about
Speaker 1: normalizing it, removing the barriers, providing nose and centers where
Speaker 1: they are appropriate and necessary, but just sending out the
Speaker 1: message that this is not a sort of hard thing
Speaker 1: to do. It's not an out there thing to do.
Speaker 1: It's a normal part of life that you need to
Speaker 1: drive an electric vehicle now or a hydrogen self vehicle
Speaker 1: or whatever it will be in the future. People are
Speaker 1: going to see us on their bikes and they're going
Speaker 1: to want to help on a bake themselves, the bakes
Speaker 1: so on. On the Transport Decarbonization Plan, you know, there
Speaker 1: were already several strategies in place, and you've gone through
Speaker 1: a bit on what the decarbonization plan and looks to address.
Speaker 1: Are there any other things that it does that is,
Speaker 1: you know, really additional on why it was so essentially
Speaker 1: needed in order to take it the next step? Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, the Department is already a leader in
Speaker 1: R and D in investments and working with the transport
Speaker 1: into street but we had not specifically addressed the net
Speaker 1: zero by twenty fifty challenge because the target was I
Speaker 1: forget what it was, sorry, but it was lower than
Speaker 1: zero before we actually started this piece of work and
Speaker 1: before this this particular government and Parliament came into office,
Speaker 1: so we needed to look again at those challenges and
Speaker 1: see where there were still gaps that we needed to
Speaker 1: address in policy. I think the other point about it
Speaker 1: is that this is the first time that we've looked
Speaker 1: across the whole system. So we haven't just looked at
Speaker 1: buses and individual murdered transport. We haven't just looked at
Speaker 1: shipping and maritime, in aviation. We've looked all of it
Speaker 1: together because there are obviously interconnectivities with how you decarbonize
Speaker 1: a particular area, for example, so we will not have
Speaker 1: the same solution for every part of the UK. It's
Speaker 1: really important that we think about local geographies, local issues.
Speaker 1: You know what, what works in London is not working
Speaker 1: my constituency and read it for example, for all sorts
Speaker 1: of reasons. So it's very much about thinking about how
Speaker 1: do we make these things work on the ground in reality. Well,
Speaker 1: here's to making things work on the ground in reality,
Speaker 1: Mr McClain, Thank you very much for joining us today
Speaker 1: and sharing us your insights and your strategies. Thank you
Speaker 1: very much for having me. Today's episode of Switched On
Speaker 1: was edited by Rex Warner of Gray Stoak Media. Bloomberginia
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