WEBVTT - Shannon & The Clams 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:23.116 Pushkin. The band Shannon and the Clams were longtime regulars 0:00:23.156 --> 0:00:26.996 in the Bay Area music scene. The band's two main songwriters, 0:00:26.996 --> 0:00:31.596 Shannon Shaw and Cody Blanchard, met in college in Oakland, California, 0:00:31.676 --> 0:00:34.276 and remained there for about a decade until a number 0:00:34.276 --> 0:00:38.436 of events set them adrift, not only physically but also spiritually. 0:00:39.196 --> 0:00:41.836 There was a tragic ghost ship warehouse fire in twenty 0:00:41.836 --> 0:00:45.276 sixteen that killed thirty six people attending the show in Oakland. 0:00:45.916 --> 0:00:48.196 Then there was a danger situation where Shannon was a 0:00:48.276 --> 0:00:51.796 victim of a stalker, and if that weren't enough, there 0:00:51.876 --> 0:00:55.236 was also the death of Shannon's fiance only weeks before 0:00:55.316 --> 0:00:58.756 their wedding day. The band's new album, The Moon Is 0:00:58.756 --> 0:01:01.476 in the Wrong Place, is taken from a phrase Shannon's fiancee, 0:01:01.636 --> 0:01:05.436 Joe Hayner, uttered shortly before his passing. It's also the 0:01:05.476 --> 0:01:08.876 record's moving title track. Much of the new record is 0:01:08.916 --> 0:01:13.076 a Shannon's grief, but there's also tender moments like the Vow, 0:01:13.396 --> 0:01:16.116 a song Shannon had written to surprise Joe on their 0:01:16.156 --> 0:01:20.556 wedding day. I spoke to Shannon, Sean Cody Blanchard about 0:01:20.556 --> 0:01:23.956 moving away from Oakland the aftermath of losing a friend 0:01:23.956 --> 0:01:27.636 in fiance and about their Dan Aarbach produced record, The 0:01:27.676 --> 0:01:33.116 Moon Is in the Wrong Place. This is broken record 0:01:33.436 --> 0:01:37.236 liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's 0:01:37.276 --> 0:01:41.236 my conversation with Shannon Shaw and Cody Blanchard of Shannon 0:01:41.436 --> 0:01:45.596 and the Clams. When the single The Moon Is in 0:01:45.636 --> 0:01:48.516 the Wrong Place first came out, and when I realized 0:01:48.516 --> 0:01:50.956 it was the album title, my thought was it might 0:01:50.996 --> 0:01:53.276 be one of the better album titles in recent memory. 0:01:53.596 --> 0:01:56.036 And then when I read the backstory, I got a 0:01:56.076 --> 0:01:59.236 little bummed out. I was like, where it comes from 0:01:59.276 --> 0:02:01.516 makes it even better in a sense. But it's obviously 0:02:01.556 --> 0:02:03.596 just a brutal way to come to it. And I 0:02:03.596 --> 0:02:05.276 don't know what degree you want to talk about it 0:02:05.396 --> 0:02:08.396 or Shannon, but you know, I don't know how to 0:02:08.396 --> 0:02:10.356 talk about this, so sorry. 0:02:10.356 --> 0:02:13.556 Well, we're not raised to talk about it or trained 0:02:13.756 --> 0:02:18.316 generally in America. It really seems. 0:02:19.516 --> 0:02:23.276 Like just so not a part of our culture. 0:02:24.596 --> 0:02:24.796 You know. 0:02:25.196 --> 0:02:30.516 The funeral marks the end of your time to publicly 0:02:31.396 --> 0:02:38.916 deal with with the loss. But I'm not going that route. 0:02:38.956 --> 0:02:42.356 I can't go that route. It's not sustainable to me. 0:02:43.356 --> 0:02:47.396 What was your relationship with sort of life and death 0:02:48.156 --> 0:02:51.356 prior to this experience, and has it evolved if it 0:02:51.396 --> 0:02:51.756 has at. 0:02:51.676 --> 0:02:56.436 All, It's yeah, it's evolved a lot. You know. 0:02:56.516 --> 0:03:02.036 I've lost my grandparents who I loved but I was 0:03:02.076 --> 0:03:07.276 not very close with. And we had someone who used 0:03:07.276 --> 0:03:14.836 to drum for us years ago committed suicide and that 0:03:14.996 --> 0:03:20.676 was definitely hard. And then I would say the ghost 0:03:20.756 --> 0:03:22.596 Ship fires, was. 0:03:24.716 --> 0:03:32.836 It definitely? Yes? Yeah, that definitely took a lot out 0:03:32.876 --> 0:03:33.236 of us. 0:03:33.356 --> 0:03:36.396 You know, It's that occurred in like the same kind 0:03:36.476 --> 0:03:40.756 of spaces that we frequent and you know, came up 0:03:40.796 --> 0:03:44.716 playing and had had some friends in there and everyone 0:03:44.916 --> 0:03:49.036 was just maybe one or two degrees away from us. 0:03:49.076 --> 0:03:52.436 So it was that was a really hard one. But 0:03:53.156 --> 0:03:58.516 nothing has affected me like this before ever. I think 0:03:58.756 --> 0:04:05.756 just having it be something from inside of my life 0:04:06.116 --> 0:04:11.956 disrupting every part of my life and changing my future. 0:04:13.036 --> 0:04:13.756 Drastically. 0:04:14.636 --> 0:04:18.796 Yeah. How long after you lost your partner, Shannon, did 0:04:18.796 --> 0:04:22.956 you feel that you could reasonably move forward with music again? 0:04:24.196 --> 0:04:25.156 Pretty quick? Right? 0:04:26.036 --> 0:04:26.356 Yeah? 0:04:27.996 --> 0:04:31.316 I never thought of it quite in those terms, because 0:04:33.756 --> 0:04:38.236 when I write music, it's usually coming from a place 0:04:38.436 --> 0:04:42.236 of I need to get something out of me. 0:04:43.636 --> 0:04:43.876 You know. 0:04:44.396 --> 0:04:49.876 The way I make music is it's processing emotions, so 0:04:50.236 --> 0:04:56.356 it shouldn't be a surprise that that's the route I took. 0:04:56.756 --> 0:05:01.076 I mean, since I was a little kid making up songs. 0:05:01.516 --> 0:05:03.916 I started making up songs when I was really young, 0:05:04.036 --> 0:05:08.036 five or so and not playing music. I never ever, 0:05:08.116 --> 0:05:10.156 I never thought i'd be a musician. That was a 0:05:10.396 --> 0:05:13.476 huge surprise to me, and I didn't start playing anything 0:05:13.596 --> 0:05:16.676 till I was twenty five. But it's always been a 0:05:16.716 --> 0:05:20.956 form of self soothing to me, and now I see 0:05:20.996 --> 0:05:26.836 it as processing too, So songs started coming to me 0:05:27.156 --> 0:05:27.676 right away. 0:05:28.556 --> 0:05:30.556 What was the first song to come to you? 0:05:31.316 --> 0:05:34.876 I feel like it was maybe the bean Fields, not 0:05:34.956 --> 0:05:40.636 like the melody or the music, but the concept and 0:05:41.236 --> 0:05:46.956 maybe life is unfair? Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, we were spending 0:05:47.076 --> 0:05:52.156 so much time just sitting in this crop. I don't 0:05:52.156 --> 0:05:56.956 know if you know, but Joe's pickup flipped into the 0:05:56.956 --> 0:06:01.596 bean field that he tended, and himself. I don't know, 0:06:01.716 --> 0:06:05.556 it's ironic, I guess, but yeah, just me and his 0:06:05.636 --> 0:06:10.596 family and some friends just ended up spending so much 0:06:10.756 --> 0:06:16.876 time just sitting out there, you know, surrounded by this madness, 0:06:16.916 --> 0:06:19.636 you know, as a real juxtaposition between life and death, 0:06:19.716 --> 0:06:24.876 being surrounded by all these blossoms, and bees buzzing, and 0:06:25.196 --> 0:06:29.676 you know, the beans starting to come in, and then 0:06:29.716 --> 0:06:33.356 this big burnt out hole in the earth where his 0:06:33.436 --> 0:06:38.076 pickup had been, and we just ended up spending so 0:06:38.196 --> 0:06:41.916 much time there that I eventually hauled out this camping. 0:06:41.996 --> 0:06:45.276 Matt and me and his sister Beth would just lay 0:06:46.316 --> 0:06:49.476 out there night and day, and eventually we dragged out 0:06:49.636 --> 0:06:54.716 chairs and a table and would meet there like every 0:06:54.836 --> 0:06:58.676 night and listen to music and talk and watch the 0:06:58.756 --> 0:07:00.636 meteor shower that had been going on. 0:07:02.116 --> 0:07:04.756 And I think. 0:07:04.676 --> 0:07:09.916 Being in that environment made me feel really inspired and 0:07:09.956 --> 0:07:17.116 blown away that I could still appreciate anything, and nature 0:07:17.236 --> 0:07:21.996 became a really big, in your face, in my face 0:07:22.876 --> 0:07:28.076 inspiration and just being able to appreciate it in a 0:07:28.156 --> 0:07:31.556 new way and just kind of living in awe. 0:07:32.476 --> 0:07:35.436 Were you starting to trend that way? I mean, you 0:07:35.556 --> 0:07:39.516 had moved to, you know, your partner's farm outside of Portland, 0:07:39.596 --> 0:07:41.596 and from what I gathered was a pretty, you know, 0:07:41.636 --> 0:07:45.276 like beautiful piece of land. So I mean, were you 0:07:45.316 --> 0:07:49.756 starting to trend towards being a person inspired by nature anyway? 0:07:50.676 --> 0:07:53.876 Or was that period of morning more of a time 0:07:53.876 --> 0:07:54.636 where that happened. 0:07:55.116 --> 0:07:58.996 I mean, I've always loved nature, grew up in the country, 0:07:59.476 --> 0:08:04.156 and I've always wanted I mean, I spent sixteen years 0:08:04.196 --> 0:08:08.676 I think in Oakland and then two years in Portland. 0:08:09.116 --> 0:08:12.436 I would go back and forth between Portland and the farm. 0:08:12.476 --> 0:08:17.716 But I've always been a lover of nature, but it 0:08:17.956 --> 0:08:23.476 totally changed. I just started to take certain things really seriously, 0:08:23.796 --> 0:08:30.636 like feeling overwhelmed by the sunsets that we were seeing 0:08:31.156 --> 0:08:38.756 and overwhelmed by plants and bugs, and I felt like 0:08:38.836 --> 0:08:41.716 a new relationship with them. 0:08:42.956 --> 0:08:47.596 Yeah, that Beanfields is one of my favorite songs on 0:08:47.636 --> 0:08:50.076 the album, along with the title track. There's a couple 0:08:50.156 --> 0:08:52.956 others you so Lucky the vow, but bean Fields feels 0:08:52.996 --> 0:08:54.436 like a For it to be one of the first 0:08:54.476 --> 0:08:56.796 songs you'd written is surprising to me because it feels 0:08:56.796 --> 0:08:59.596 like it's coming from a person who's fully, fully processed 0:08:59.596 --> 0:09:01.236 things and fully I don't know, it seems like such 0:09:01.716 --> 0:09:05.796 a beautifully you know, given the circumstances, like a beautifully 0:09:05.836 --> 0:09:09.716 formed way of thinking about happened. 0:09:10.116 --> 0:09:10.516 Thanks. 0:09:10.596 --> 0:09:14.876 I think that one is something that really surprised me 0:09:15.236 --> 0:09:24.796 that I felt soon after the loss was gratitude and that, 0:09:24.996 --> 0:09:28.476 you know, it's a concept that I've always understood, but 0:09:28.956 --> 0:09:35.036 I think it wasn't until this event where I felt 0:09:35.076 --> 0:09:41.156 it like deep within me, like I have been so 0:09:41.716 --> 0:09:47.236 deeply grateful to have had Joe for the amount of 0:09:47.276 --> 0:09:53.636 time I've had him, and I feel like definitely forever 0:09:53.796 --> 0:09:57.236 changed by having his influence in my life, and I 0:09:57.276 --> 0:10:02.836 feel like I still am being inspired by him as 0:10:02.876 --> 0:10:07.916 a person. I constantly asked myself like, WWJD, what would 0:10:07.996 --> 0:10:13.156 Joe do? You know, I'm like using him as a 0:10:13.196 --> 0:10:18.876 moral compass oftentimes, and I think that was part of 0:10:19.916 --> 0:10:22.916 the joy that you feel in the bean Fields. I 0:10:22.956 --> 0:10:26.276 was afraid of that song at first because when I 0:10:26.316 --> 0:10:29.276 started really working on it, that's all that was coming 0:10:29.316 --> 0:10:34.516 out of me, was like a joy, a celebration and appreciation. 0:10:35.476 --> 0:10:39.436 I was so surprised to be writing something upbeat, and 0:10:39.916 --> 0:10:43.476 I was afraid to embrace that because I was like, 0:10:43.636 --> 0:10:47.876 is that disrespectful or is it too weird? Too soon 0:10:48.676 --> 0:10:51.956 to put a joyous song on there? And you know, 0:10:52.116 --> 0:10:54.756 I answered, have answered my own question, and it's no, 0:10:55.276 --> 0:11:00.516 absolutely not. You know this, this grief has been a 0:11:00.596 --> 0:11:07.516 really massive range, you know, of emotions, and I think 0:11:07.676 --> 0:11:16.276 with the extreme depths of depression and darkness and nothingness 0:11:17.276 --> 0:11:25.116 that I've experienced, I've also experienced sheer joy and celebrating 0:11:25.196 --> 0:11:27.556 feels so important. 0:11:28.196 --> 0:11:29.956 Yeah, and really. 0:11:30.396 --> 0:11:35.196 Grasping any bits of light that I can find is 0:11:35.516 --> 0:11:38.356 so important to my survival. 0:11:38.996 --> 0:11:41.516 I'm so happy to hear that. I'm grateful that you've 0:11:42.036 --> 0:11:45.436 sort of found the strength or the sensibility or the 0:11:45.476 --> 0:11:47.196 courage or to handle it the way that you have. 0:11:47.236 --> 0:11:50.516 It's been the rough kind of beautiful to watch as well. 0:11:51.356 --> 0:11:52.676 Thank you, Thank you. 0:11:52.956 --> 0:11:55.916 Yeah, Cody, As someone who's known Shannon, like you know 0:11:56.036 --> 0:11:58.756 obviously a very long time, how has the last couple 0:11:58.796 --> 0:11:59.596 of years been for you? 0:12:03.076 --> 0:12:09.076 I mean, right after Joe Dive was just fucking completely shattering. 0:12:10.356 --> 0:12:11.396 It was just like. 0:12:12.956 --> 0:12:17.236 Total destruction for me. And then to watch your friend 0:12:17.756 --> 0:12:21.996 have to go through this and deal with this is like, yeah, 0:12:22.036 --> 0:12:26.836 it's just annihilating. Just everything stopped, you know, like we 0:12:26.956 --> 0:12:32.596 just didn't do anything else, just cancel everything. Yeah, and 0:12:33.596 --> 0:12:35.916 you know, Shannon came and stayed at our house for 0:12:35.956 --> 0:12:39.476 a while because she was living in Portland. But obviously 0:12:39.596 --> 0:12:42.996 like didn't want to go back to their apartment. I 0:12:43.036 --> 0:12:45.236 mean I even had a hard time going in there 0:12:45.236 --> 0:12:48.196 and I didn't even live there. I tried to just 0:12:49.716 --> 0:12:52.996 i don't know, be like a point of light or 0:12:54.036 --> 0:12:57.636 be like the kind of friend that Shannon was used to, 0:12:59.076 --> 0:13:04.876 So be present and not like try to force anything, 0:13:04.876 --> 0:13:08.436 you know, not try to like really force Shannon to 0:13:08.476 --> 0:13:12.836 talk about what she was feeling or what's going on, 0:13:12.956 --> 0:13:17.476 and to like allow moments of levity or find a 0:13:17.516 --> 0:13:21.836 little moments of like joy or humor, you know, when 0:13:21.876 --> 0:13:22.316 we could. 0:13:22.916 --> 0:13:27.316 Yeah, how long after Shannon wrote Beanfields did you hear 0:13:27.356 --> 0:13:29.036 it or see it? I don't know if the words 0:13:29.036 --> 0:13:30.876 came first or if everything sort of came together. 0:13:31.676 --> 0:13:34.396 I guess probably December or January, so that was probably 0:13:34.396 --> 0:13:36.996 like four months because we didn't really get together to 0:13:37.036 --> 0:13:39.636 work on stuff until January. 0:13:40.436 --> 0:13:42.316 How did you feel about the things coming in? The 0:13:42.316 --> 0:13:43.516 songs coming in from Shannon? 0:13:44.516 --> 0:13:46.276 We were trying to we keep talking about this. We 0:13:46.276 --> 0:13:50.036 were trying to find another instrument for Shannon to write on, 0:13:50.156 --> 0:13:54.156 and someone told Shannon to get an omnichord because you 0:13:54.196 --> 0:13:59.076 can just push buttons and like it plays chords for you, 0:13:59.156 --> 0:14:02.556 and it has a drum machine in it. So that 0:14:02.636 --> 0:14:05.756 was I thought was really cool because it I think 0:14:05.836 --> 0:14:10.036 it removed the like translation step because there's often Shannon's 0:14:10.076 --> 0:14:13.636 writing on bass and then we're trying to find these 0:14:13.716 --> 0:14:16.276 chords that work with you know, what she's singing or 0:14:17.436 --> 0:14:19.196 you know, like if you play a bass note and 0:14:19.236 --> 0:14:21.276 then you sing a melody on top of it, it 0:14:21.316 --> 0:14:25.396 informs like what the key it's in or what chords 0:14:25.676 --> 0:14:26.436 would work. 0:14:26.236 --> 0:14:28.356 With it, right, and then if you change the bass 0:14:28.356 --> 0:14:32.716 note or something, it would totally change the. 0:14:32.196 --> 0:14:37.916 Between those two notes. But it like removed that translation 0:14:38.356 --> 0:14:41.716 kind of step. And then Shannon could just like play 0:14:41.756 --> 0:14:45.076 around with all these different weirdo chords and I think 0:14:45.116 --> 0:14:46.036 write more freely. 0:14:46.756 --> 0:14:49.516 And then so like we're the demos with omni chord 0:14:49.676 --> 0:14:52.716 on them that you're hearing, Yeah, that's pretty cool. Like 0:14:52.876 --> 0:14:55.116 how did that inform? I guess what you do? Then? 0:14:55.156 --> 0:14:57.676 As a guitar player, must have just given you like 0:14:57.716 --> 0:15:00.516 a kind of a pretty strong blueprint for what to do. 0:15:00.556 --> 0:15:00.996 I guess. 0:15:01.196 --> 0:15:05.356 Yeah, it's still has to get glued together, and I 0:15:05.356 --> 0:15:09.956 think like backing vocals and harmonies and stuff still come 0:15:09.996 --> 0:15:11.956 to you know, like Shannon usually has an idea for 0:15:12.716 --> 0:15:15.196 a backing vocal, but it's just it's different when we 0:15:15.236 --> 0:15:18.036 all get together because we bring different like we sing 0:15:18.076 --> 0:15:20.796 in different ranges and have different ideas, and we tried, 0:15:20.916 --> 0:15:25.556 we tried to like have a more free form, you know, 0:15:25.636 --> 0:15:30.156 like jam session where we were coming with really incomplete ideas. 0:15:30.396 --> 0:15:32.316 But I don't know. It was cool and it was fun, 0:15:32.316 --> 0:15:36.076 but we didn't actually produce that much usable stuff. It 0:15:36.156 --> 0:15:38.996 just felt like everything was like upside down and we 0:15:38.996 --> 0:15:39.916 could try anything. 0:15:40.116 --> 0:15:42.116 Yeah, right, it felt like a good time just to 0:15:42.156 --> 0:15:44.116 try a new playbook maybe, But. 0:15:44.116 --> 0:15:46.716 The stuff we kept from it was really stuff that 0:15:46.796 --> 0:15:50.596 had been pretty well like written before because we were 0:15:50.636 --> 0:15:53.636 recording in March and that's started in January, so it 0:15:53.676 --> 0:15:56.876 wasn't like a ton of time to write stuff. 0:15:57.356 --> 0:16:00.036 Yeah, I was writing on the on the code for you. 0:16:00.876 --> 0:16:04.996 It opened up a whole new world. 0:16:05.356 --> 0:16:10.556 I mean, it just made I was just over flowing 0:16:10.716 --> 0:16:16.956 with ideas that I couldn't capture because I just felt 0:16:17.036 --> 0:16:20.716 too limited on the bass. That's how I normally write songs. 0:16:21.596 --> 0:16:25.996 And I only know a handful of guitar chords. And 0:16:26.036 --> 0:16:29.636 I'm not a good guitar player at all. I'm not 0:16:29.716 --> 0:16:31.556 even an okay guitar player. 0:16:31.836 --> 0:16:32.836 Do you try? Do you try? 0:16:33.076 --> 0:16:34.476 I try? I try. 0:16:34.596 --> 0:16:40.156 Yeah. Joe actually made me learn a few guitar chords 0:16:40.436 --> 0:16:45.476 in twenty twenty. It was important to him that I 0:16:45.556 --> 0:16:48.356 learn a few. He was like, just trust me, you're 0:16:48.396 --> 0:16:48.956 gonna love it. 0:16:48.996 --> 0:16:51.516 You're gonna get it. It's just gonna help you. You're 0:16:51.516 --> 0:16:52.116 gonna love it. 0:16:52.396 --> 0:16:56.156 And I was so resistant because I hate being bad 0:16:56.196 --> 0:16:59.956 at stuff. And that's actually kind of how I wrote 0:16:59.996 --> 0:17:04.036 the vow. I used the chords he taught me and 0:17:04.596 --> 0:17:05.716 wrote that song. 0:17:06.076 --> 0:17:06.476 Wow. 0:17:07.796 --> 0:17:10.756 Yeah, that's the one song that was written before he 0:17:10.836 --> 0:17:13.156 died because I was going to perform it at our 0:17:13.196 --> 0:17:16.956 wedding as a surprise to him. Yeah, but yeah, it 0:17:17.036 --> 0:17:21.836 was going to be that really simple, simple song, and 0:17:23.036 --> 0:17:27.276 it made me furious that he was never going to 0:17:27.316 --> 0:17:30.476 get to hear it. You know, I would never written 0:17:30.516 --> 0:17:35.076 it if he hadn't convinced me that I should learn 0:17:35.116 --> 0:17:39.476 a few chords. And I did get really addicted to 0:17:39.636 --> 0:17:44.796 guitar during lockdown, and it. 0:17:44.476 --> 0:17:45.956 Had become a great tool to me. 0:17:46.156 --> 0:17:50.596 I never got good, but yeah, I was really sad 0:17:50.836 --> 0:17:53.476 for some reason that detail. Of all of the things 0:17:54.076 --> 0:17:57.556 that I was mad about, I kept coming back to 0:17:57.836 --> 0:18:03.396 that song and it was just so naive, you know, 0:18:03.476 --> 0:18:08.876 it was so full of hope and joy and was 0:18:09.196 --> 0:18:10.796 it and when I. 0:18:10.716 --> 0:18:13.196 Was the happiest I've ever been in my whole life. 0:18:13.116 --> 0:18:13.316 You know. 0:18:13.636 --> 0:18:19.596 Yeah, So I guess I wanted that to be on 0:18:19.676 --> 0:18:28.276 the album to tell the story of, like, look how 0:18:28.356 --> 0:18:32.036 fucking happy I was, you know, like we had our 0:18:32.076 --> 0:18:37.076 lives like together, things were going great, and. 0:18:38.076 --> 0:18:40.396 That song was just such a symbol. 0:18:40.196 --> 0:18:48.596 Of of how much I believed in our union and 0:18:49.076 --> 0:18:53.836 how proud I was. So I guess I just wanted 0:18:53.876 --> 0:18:59.636 to kind of share with people how it felt for 0:18:59.756 --> 0:19:06.556 everything to stop. And that's essentially what we put the 0:19:06.636 --> 0:19:09.956 Vow next to our Glass too, because I feel like 0:19:09.996 --> 0:19:17.236 those two songs together some up that nightmarish journey, you know, 0:19:17.556 --> 0:19:18.356 of the beginning. 0:19:18.996 --> 0:19:22.476 Yeah, we'll be right back with more from Shannon and 0:19:22.516 --> 0:19:29.476 the Clams after this break. We're back with Shannon and 0:19:29.516 --> 0:19:33.596 the Clams. When did you decide to put the Vow 0:19:33.716 --> 0:19:35.676 on the album or to revisit it as a song? 0:19:35.796 --> 0:19:39.716 And rework it and I didn't show anyone until we 0:19:39.716 --> 0:19:44.636 were at this session in January when we were writing together, 0:19:45.276 --> 0:19:49.836 and I was like, knew that it would could be 0:19:49.916 --> 0:19:54.556 potentially cruel, you know, I never know how real to get, 0:19:55.396 --> 0:19:58.476 and I decided to just be like completely real, like 0:19:58.796 --> 0:20:02.276 I'm going to just share the devastation because I can't 0:20:02.476 --> 0:20:04.676 I can't hold it by myself. 0:20:05.036 --> 0:20:06.956 When you say you in the past or you know, 0:20:06.956 --> 0:20:09.876 you're never sure how real to get, Like, what do 0:20:09.916 --> 0:20:11.436 you think that instinct. 0:20:11.076 --> 0:20:17.196 Is protecting people? Also, it's just hard. It's hard and 0:20:17.316 --> 0:20:22.196 exhausting to be so vulnerable all the time. Yeah, lately, 0:20:22.876 --> 0:20:27.996 I'm just talking about my grief with press because y'all 0:20:27.996 --> 0:20:28.596 are asking. 0:20:29.516 --> 0:20:32.556 And I do find myself. 0:20:33.516 --> 0:20:39.196 Keeping certain thoughts to myself because they're so sad. I 0:20:39.236 --> 0:20:45.636 don't want to like take someone's innocence away by by 0:20:45.756 --> 0:20:50.796 sharing them like with them, like some of the extreme 0:20:50.916 --> 0:20:55.796 darkness that I live with now, you know. Yeah, but 0:20:55.916 --> 0:21:01.796 I don't you know, I'm also really open, but if 0:21:01.836 --> 0:21:05.596 no one's asking, I'm not usually bringing it out currently. 0:21:05.996 --> 0:21:09.116 Yeah, do you prefer do you prefer people not to add? 0:21:09.596 --> 0:21:10.956 I mean, where are you at with them? 0:21:11.156 --> 0:21:14.236 I want people to ask because it's my life now, 0:21:15.036 --> 0:21:17.436 this is my life, this is all I think about. 0:21:18.436 --> 0:21:23.036 And what is weird to me is if you are 0:21:23.956 --> 0:21:28.276 someone who loves me, friends or family wise, and it 0:21:28.316 --> 0:21:31.196 doesn't come up, you don't bring it up, you don't 0:21:31.316 --> 0:21:36.876 check on me or something that is disturbing to me. Yeah. 0:21:37.116 --> 0:21:39.476 I like to think of it as a dresser. I 0:21:39.596 --> 0:21:44.476 like to think of my relationships as a big dresser, 0:21:45.076 --> 0:21:48.636 and some of those people previously that were in my 0:21:48.716 --> 0:21:52.116 top drawer have had to go to the bottom drawer. 0:21:52.236 --> 0:21:54.996 I love them, But going back to what we first 0:21:54.996 --> 0:21:58.356 talked about, you apologize and said, I'm sorry, I don't 0:21:58.396 --> 0:21:59.796 know how to talk about this stuff. 0:22:00.316 --> 0:22:02.436 We do not know how to talk about it. 0:22:02.596 --> 0:22:05.676 We don't and I don't blame anyone for that, but 0:22:05.996 --> 0:22:08.836 some people are a lot better than others at it, 0:22:08.876 --> 0:22:12.996 you know, instinctual, and like give me the space, you know, 0:22:13.076 --> 0:22:16.676 bring it up and check in with me, and then 0:22:16.756 --> 0:22:17.316 give me. 0:22:18.756 --> 0:22:23.116 The space I need to talk about it. 0:22:23.436 --> 0:22:28.676 And that to me, that's like invaluable. And I honestly 0:22:28.716 --> 0:22:34.876 have a list of friends that have provided that kind 0:22:34.916 --> 0:22:38.916 of a space for me. And I've just had to 0:22:39.076 --> 0:22:44.676 let other friends and family that I thought could could 0:22:44.756 --> 0:22:48.436 hold me there and could be there, I've just had 0:22:48.476 --> 0:22:49.796 to put them in the bottom drawer. 0:22:50.036 --> 0:22:54.036 Yeah, have you been handling this just purely instinctually? I 0:22:54.036 --> 0:22:56.676 mean I've been doing therapy. Well, how do you like, 0:22:57.036 --> 0:22:59.636 how are you finding the words and the processes to 0:23:00.116 --> 0:23:02.196 reprioritize and I mean all these things that you're saying me, 0:23:02.236 --> 0:23:04.396 it's just like, yeah, I'm kind of stunned that you're 0:23:04.396 --> 0:23:06.476 able to do all this, you know, consciously. 0:23:07.036 --> 0:23:07.516 Thank you. 0:23:08.436 --> 0:23:12.716 I I would say a lot of it is instinctual. 0:23:13.436 --> 0:23:19.036 But I did join a grief group. Someone connected me 0:23:19.076 --> 0:23:23.876 with a grief counselor right away, so I've had her, 0:23:24.516 --> 0:23:27.036 and then I have a grief group, which has been 0:23:28.196 --> 0:23:34.396 really helpful. But years ago, I did therapy off and on, 0:23:34.516 --> 0:23:38.796 and I still have a relationship with my old therapist. 0:23:39.316 --> 0:23:40.756 I haven't talked to him in a while now because 0:23:40.756 --> 0:23:42.836 I can't afford three different therapies. 0:23:42.916 --> 0:23:46.196 But I'm glad to know you have the same problem 0:23:46.276 --> 0:23:47.836 as me. It's like I need therapy. 0:23:48.036 --> 0:23:53.116 Yeah, It's that's really sad to me because I think, 0:23:53.156 --> 0:23:56.916 no matter what you've going you've been going through, you 0:23:56.996 --> 0:24:00.956 don't have to have had a, you know, life changing death. 0:24:00.996 --> 0:24:05.076 I think that everyone needs therapy just to learn how 0:24:05.116 --> 0:24:10.076 to like communicate with each other. I think that having 0:24:10.116 --> 0:24:16.796 that therapy years ago put me in a much better place. 0:24:18.076 --> 0:24:24.236 I really like encourage everyone I know to have therapy. 0:24:24.836 --> 0:24:28.316 But now the grief group has been so good for me. 0:24:28.756 --> 0:24:36.116 I think being with other people who lost people in 0:24:36.556 --> 0:24:41.996 different ways, different scenarios, different relationships, just I mean, you 0:24:42.036 --> 0:24:45.116 already from a loss like this, you already gain a 0:24:45.116 --> 0:24:50.756 lot of perspective, which I wasn't expecting. But like, things 0:24:50.796 --> 0:24:56.076 that were so important to me before are totally not 0:24:56.276 --> 0:25:00.076 you know, those dresser drawers have moved around on their own, 0:25:00.356 --> 0:25:05.036 and a lot of the noise gets cleared out of life. 0:25:05.076 --> 0:25:08.716 Like a lot of the little things that stressed me 0:25:08.756 --> 0:25:13.276 out gave me anxiety, you know, those the important things 0:25:13.396 --> 0:25:17.636 are like bursting out of the top. Wow, and so 0:25:17.756 --> 0:25:21.356 much further away from from the little noise. But hearing 0:25:21.436 --> 0:25:27.116 other people's grief journeys, I guess you would call it 0:25:27.196 --> 0:25:31.396 is amazing. And I feel so grateful to have this 0:25:31.636 --> 0:25:36.156 group of people to be with every week, because I 0:25:36.196 --> 0:25:42.316 can have the most supportive, wonderful friends, but being with 0:25:42.556 --> 0:25:48.476 someone who's suffered anything close to similarly like it's it's 0:25:48.556 --> 0:25:51.116 kind of one of the only places where I feel 0:25:51.116 --> 0:25:53.956 like I can let my hair down. Yeah, you know, 0:25:54.076 --> 0:25:57.556 and like I liken it too. When I get to 0:25:57.636 --> 0:26:02.156 that group, I feel like I can like unbutton a 0:26:02.196 --> 0:26:03.316 tight pair of genes. 0:26:03.796 --> 0:26:06.116 Oh you know, do you feel like your writing's kind 0:26:06.116 --> 0:26:07.076 of forever impacted? 0:26:09.236 --> 0:26:13.436 I do, because I guess going back to what I 0:26:13.476 --> 0:26:19.876 was trying to say about perspective and the important things 0:26:19.916 --> 0:26:24.236 like blasting to the top and the noise settling down 0:26:24.276 --> 0:26:29.636 at the bottom. I think that it's changed my fears. 0:26:30.516 --> 0:26:33.636 You know, I'm like just not as afraid to do anything. 0:26:34.236 --> 0:26:40.716 I'm not as caught up on worrying what people will think, 0:26:41.116 --> 0:26:44.716 or I'm not as afraid to try things. You know, 0:26:44.916 --> 0:26:47.796 about our session we did in January to go over 0:26:48.356 --> 0:26:52.076 demos and try to jam. I hated jamming, you know, 0:26:52.156 --> 0:26:54.756