Speaker 1: Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shonda Land Audio in
Speaker 1: partnership with I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the
Speaker 1: third season of Criminalia. This season, we are exploring the
Speaker 1: lives and motivations of some of the most notorious impostors
Speaker 1: throughout history. I'm Maria tra Marquis and I'm Holly Fry
Speaker 1: And in this episode, we're going all the way back
Speaker 1: to England in the fourteen hundreds. We're talking about late
Speaker 1: Middle Ages in the very early beginning of the Renaissance.
Speaker 1: So to set the scene, Johannes Guttenberg had invented the
Speaker 1: printing press at this time and had already printed the
Speaker 1: first Bible. Typical jobs during this period would have been
Speaker 1: things like blacksmiths, Stonemason's, minstrels, weavers, farmers, and tax collector.
Speaker 1: Must insert something here that I loved at. One of
Speaker 1: the most popular jobs in like fourteen eighty was a
Speaker 1: tax collector. Listen, you have to finding saw that. I know.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not surprised, but I was pleased to
Speaker 1: see that it popped up on the list because it
Speaker 1: seems true. Yes, Uh, common foods that people would be
Speaker 1: eating include a lot of grain, based foods like bread, porridge,
Speaker 1: and beer, and for most people men and women alike,
Speaker 1: tunics were the main fashion statement. It was pretty utilitarian.
Speaker 1: They were usually made of hemp or coarse wool or linen.
Speaker 1: Ladies of a certain class though, and pretty much the
Speaker 1: class that we're gonna be talking about, we're wearing gowns
Speaker 1: with kind of a low waist and a high neckline,
Speaker 1: made a very thick and rich material, often brocaded with gold.
Speaker 1: And this is around the time Leonardo da Vinci was
Speaker 1: painting The Last Supper. This is also the time when Richard,
Speaker 1: Duke of Gloucester, who you might know better as Richard three,
Speaker 1: and his brother Edward the Fourth, who was King of
Speaker 1: England at the time, we're both alive, and they were
Speaker 1: both very hungry for power, specifically Richard. Richard wanted to
Speaker 1: be a king, and power and murder are plentiful in
Speaker 1: his story. But we need to talk about him and
Speaker 1: a few other royals before we can talk about our
Speaker 1: impostor so. King Edward the Fourth death was sudden and unexpected.
Speaker 1: He was just forty one years old at the time,
Speaker 1: and while no one knows for certain what that cause
Speaker 1: of death was, the leading theory is that it was
Speaker 1: from complications of pneumonia. When Edward died, it was not
Speaker 1: his brother, Richard, Duke of Gloucester, who ascended to the throne.
Speaker 1: The king had several children, including two sons, Edward, Prince
Speaker 1: of Wales and Richard, Duke of York. It was Edward
Speaker 1: the Fourth's eldest son, the Prince of Wales, who was
Speaker 1: declared king in fourteen eight three. At this point he
Speaker 1: was only about twelve or thirteen years old, and his
Speaker 1: brother Richard, Duke of York, was named his air presumptive.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about air presumptive and what exactly that means.
Speaker 1: So an air presumptive is the person first in line
Speaker 1: to inherit a title such as king, but they can
Speaker 1: be displaced by a more eligible air such as say
Speaker 1: the birth of a son. The title is not guaranteed
Speaker 1: like it would be if you were named air apparent.
Speaker 1: A modern example of an heir apparent is Charles, Prince
Speaker 1: of Wales, as the eldest son of Queen Elizabeth. The
Speaker 1: second Prince Charles will without a doubt ascend to the
Speaker 1: British throne, and Prince William, who is Charles's eldest son
Speaker 1: will follow his father, and it's just locked in air apparent.
Speaker 1: On May ninete, Edward, Prince of Wales was relocated into
Speaker 1: the Tower of London, which was traditionally where a monarch
Speaker 1: would live prior to their coronation. It kind of functioned
Speaker 1: like a palace slash fortress slash prison, which I think
Speaker 1: is how a lot of people know it as the
Speaker 1: prison part. We'll talk about some of that. And to Edward,
Speaker 1: things seem to be moving along smoothly towards his ascension
Speaker 1: to the throne. About a month later in June, his
Speaker 1: brother Richard, Duke of York, joined him at the tower,
Speaker 1: but just before the big event was supposed to take place,
Speaker 1: his uncle and guardian, Duke of Gloucester, delayed the coronation,
Speaker 1: and he delayed it indefinitely. So keep in mind here though,
Speaker 1: that the Duke of Gloucester is uncle Richard Edward. The
Speaker 1: five did rain, though it was very brief. It was
Speaker 1: just from April nine to June, only seventy eight days.
Speaker 1: He was never actually crowned, and his reign was mostly
Speaker 1: dominated by the influence of his throne hungry uncle Richard,
Speaker 1: Duke of Gloucester, there's a fundamental problem with the setup,
Speaker 1: where like the power hungry person might be in charge
Speaker 1: of the actual person in power, and usually who is
Speaker 1: a child. Right, So Uncle Richard not exactly what you
Speaker 1: might categorize as paternal, not even the kind of uncle
Speaker 1: you might enjoy spending some time with once a year
Speaker 1: during the holidays. He was the opposite. He kind of
Speaker 1: had this role in shorthand versions of the story as
Speaker 1: the evil uncle, which is kind of earned. He forced
Speaker 1: parliament to declare King Edward the fifth and his brother Richard,
Speaker 1: Duke of York, as born out of wedlock. The argument
Speaker 1: here was that the marriage between Edward the fourth and
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Woodbill, their mother, was invalid due to Edward the
Speaker 1: fourth pre contract pre contracts. I feel like I'm kind
Speaker 1: of explaining all these little things today. If your Maria
Speaker 1: in cycling had today, Yes, if there was an existing
Speaker 1: promise of marriage, and in this case, Richard was suggesting
Speaker 1: that the promise was not made to Elizabeth, then the
Speaker 1: pre contract rule would legally void any future marriages. So
Speaker 1: in making the royal marriage void, it made the boys
Speaker 1: illegitimate airs and they weren't in line for anything. So
Speaker 1: in this strategic power play, Richard, Duke of Gloucester see
Speaker 1: used to the throne and became King Richard the Third,
Speaker 1: So not coincidentally, this is also the same time when
Speaker 1: Edward the fourth sons we're never seen again. They disappear
Speaker 1: from the record, And as we mentioned, the boys stayed
Speaker 1: at a luxury area of the Tower of London before Edward,
Speaker 1: Prince of Wales's coronation. But remember also a prison uh
Speaker 1: and execution by beheading there, including that of Anne Boleyn,
Speaker 1: the second wife of Henry the eighth, was not particularly uncommon.
Speaker 1: So we're going to take a quick break for a
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. But when we come back, we'll
Speaker 1: talk about Richard, Duke of York. Welcome back to Criminalia
Speaker 1: for anyone who's not a big fan of this time
Speaker 1: and maybe knows about it already. We're going to start
Speaker 1: by talking a bit about the princes in the Tower.
Speaker 1: So the story of the two princes in the Tower
Speaker 1: is actually pretty unsettling. Richard, Duke of York and his
Speaker 1: brother Edward, Prince of Wales mysteriously disappeared after having been
Speaker 1: seen taken to the heavily guarded Tower of London. No
Speaker 1: one saw Edward or Richard again, so, imagining the worst,
Speaker 1: many hoped that the boys had been smuggled out of
Speaker 1: the tower and whisked away to safety and away from
Speaker 1: the king, because who wouldn't want to hope that, But
Speaker 1: no one was actually whisked away to safety. Richard, Duke
Speaker 1: of Gloucester became King Richard the third and four three,
Speaker 1: and very quickly after Richard, Duke of York and Edward
Speaker 1: the Fifth had disappeared completely because Richard the Third was feared, uh,
Speaker 1: everybody knew he was not somebody to mess with, so
Speaker 1: nobody dared to ask him what had become of the boys,
Speaker 1: whether or not Edward and Richard were or were not
Speaker 1: killed in that tower. His historians do agree that Richard
Speaker 1: the third did order the murder of his nephews. Technology,
Speaker 1: though during this time, wasn't at all like what's available today,
Speaker 1: So even if he suspected or knew that Richard had
Speaker 1: killed or ordered the murder of his nephews, it was
Speaker 1: going to be difficult to prove. There was really no
Speaker 1: way to work with forensic evidence, and that meant there
Speaker 1: was no way to conclusively identify anybody, whether it was
Speaker 1: a royal body or a not royal body, including the
Speaker 1: two skeletons that were later found in the tower. Famously,
Speaker 1: William Shakespeare wrote a play about Richard the Third, and
Speaker 1: in it he portrayed him as a villain and the
Speaker 1: most evil and controversial king imaginable. The play, aptly called
Speaker 1: Richard the Third, is widely considered to be actually a
Speaker 1: factual telling of the authentic story of the tyrant king
Speaker 1: who was killed in battle. Specifically, this was the battle
Speaker 1: that ended the War of the Roses, So super fast
Speaker 1: refresh about the War of the Roses? Were the Roses
Speaker 1: is bloody civil wars thought over who was going to
Speaker 1: rule England that was between the House of York and
Speaker 1: the House of Lancaster. The War of the Roses lasted
Speaker 1: decades between fourteen fifty five and four five. So King
Speaker 1: Richard the Third of the House of York was the
Speaker 1: last English king to die on the battlefield, and as
Speaker 1: he was such an unpopular King of England, there were
Speaker 1: many people who believed that he deserved his faith. On
Speaker 1: August eighty five, at the Battle of boss Worth, Richard
Speaker 1: the Third was killed at age thirty two by Henry
Speaker 1: the Seventh of the House of Lancaster. That event marked
Speaker 1: both the end of the York dynasty, which had ruled
Speaker 1: for more than three hundred years, and the beginning of
Speaker 1: the Tutor period. The Tutors rose to power as a
Speaker 1: direct result of Henry the seventh victory for the House
Speaker 1: of Lancaster and his subsequent marriage to Elizabeth of York.
Speaker 1: That marriage, you could tell a York and a Lancaster
Speaker 1: joined these two houses. The Tutor period lasted for eighteen years.
Speaker 1: So Richard, Duke of York, as you'll remember from before
Speaker 1: our break that we took, was the second son of
Speaker 1: King Edward the fourth and one of the two princes
Speaker 1: in the tower. And you may have heard of him
Speaker 1: by the name of Richard of Shrewsbury, Duke of York,
Speaker 1: probably just Richard. We're going to call him Richard, Duke
Speaker 1: of York because that is the title that he seemed
Speaker 1: to use the most. Plus there are multiple Richards in
Speaker 1: this story, so that's the way that we can help
Speaker 1: keep track of. Wow, Richard third evil uncle, Richard Duke
Speaker 1: of York, little kid nephew, and it was probably murdered
Speaker 1: by it, right, I mean, if Edward was twelve or thirteen,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, these are kids. These are kids, Uncle,
Speaker 1: uncle Richard, please remember that. So um. At this point
Speaker 1: in the story, it's assumed that Richard, Duke of York
Speaker 1: and his brother Edward, Prince of Wales had been executed
Speaker 1: by order of their uncle Richard in three. But a
Speaker 1: man pretending to be Richard, Duke of York now enters
Speaker 1: this story. Yeah, you've noticed. We haven't gotten to the
Speaker 1: impostor yet, but it's time. We're going to take a
Speaker 1: quick break for a word from our sponsor, and when
Speaker 1: we get back we will meet that impostor. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to Criminalia. Let's now meet a man named Perkin Warbeck.
Speaker 1: Upon Richard the third death in five, that man, Perkin Warbeck,
Speaker 1: saw an opportunity. Since there was no firm evidence as
Speaker 1: to the fate of either of the princes in the tower,
Speaker 1: what should stop him? Perkin decided from claiming one of
Speaker 1: their identities. So he did just that, and he laid
Speaker 1: claim to the throne of the first Tutor King of England,
Speaker 1: Henry the seventh, because why not. During his masquarade, Perkin
Speaker 1: claimed to be Richard Shrewsbury, Duke of York, the second
Speaker 1: son of King Edward the fourth. He claimed he was
Speaker 1: one of the princes in the tower and confirmed that Edward,
Speaker 1: Prince of Wales, his brother, had indeed died in the
Speaker 1: Tower of London. He though, was spared from death because
Speaker 1: of how young he'd been, and he kept a story going.
Speaker 1: He said, then he was smuggled into Europe, where he'd
Speaker 1: been living under cover all these years. There's a lot
Speaker 1: about Warbeck that we're never gonna know, because of course
Speaker 1: this is hundreds and hundreds of years ago, and some
Speaker 1: details have been lost through the centuries. Here's what we
Speaker 1: do know. He was born as Pierre shon d Warbeck,
Speaker 1: who went by Perkin Warbeck, and was the son of
Speaker 1: Johanda Warbeck also known as John Warbeck, and Catherine de
Speaker 1: Faroh in Tournai in fourteen seventy four. Turn I was
Speaker 1: at the time located in France. Today, of course, borders
Speaker 1: have shifted a bit and Tournai is now part of Belgium,
Speaker 1: very near the French border. Perkin grew up in Antwerp
Speaker 1: and was working a series of domestic jobs until he
Speaker 1: was hired by a silk merchant named Pierre may Know.
Speaker 1: May Know brought Prkin to Cork, Ireland, probably around four
Speaker 1: one ish, when people saw Richard modeling may No silks
Speaker 1: and other works. It was rumored that he was actually
Speaker 1: a son born out of wedlock to the late George,
Speaker 1: Duke of Clarence. Or and this one'll get you, perhaps
Speaker 1: even King Richard the Third. So Richard, Duke of York
Speaker 1: stood out, and he stood out as perhaps royalty. So
Speaker 1: Perkin initially called himself the Earl of Warwick, but there
Speaker 1: was actually already another person impersonating the Earl of Warwick.
Speaker 1: Back off, this is my corner. Such were the times
Speaker 1: Lambert Simmel was trying to claim the throne of England
Speaker 1: by pretending to be Edward, Earl of Warwick, nephew of
Speaker 1: Richard the third. Lambert, who was only ten years old,
Speaker 1: was it was presumed, being used by adults seeking to
Speaker 1: re establish the House of York's claim to the throne.
Speaker 1: But there can only be one fake Earl of Warwick,
Speaker 1: so Perkin shifted instead to claiming that he was the
Speaker 1: Duke of York. Perkin is like the Highlander of Monsters.
Speaker 1: Very soon after this, Perkin began using the new identity
Speaker 1: full time, adopting it during his time in Ireland in November.
Speaker 1: The first we hear of Perkin officially claiming to be
Speaker 1: the son of King Edward the Fourth, though, is when
Speaker 1: he announced himself as Richard, Duke of York and the
Speaker 1: younger of the two Princes of the Tower at the
Speaker 1: Court of Burgundy. He also began his campaign to take
Speaker 1: the English throne. So around this time Perkin decided it
Speaker 1: was time to up his game and get people in
Speaker 1: powerful places to identify him as Richard, Duke of York.
Speaker 1: That would you know, bolster his entire little plan here,
Speaker 1: and considering there was a Larry Simil, he needed to
Speaker 1: do this before other royal impersonators got there. First. Invited
Speaker 1: to Paris, shortly after his visit to Ireland, the would
Speaker 1: be Richard was recognized as Duke of York by King
Speaker 1: Charles the Eight. That was big. Important people in general, though,
Speaker 1: were taken in by Perkin as Richard, Duke of York,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't just the King of France. In May
Speaker 1: fourteen ninety four, Maximilian the First, the Holy Roman Emperor,
Speaker 1: recognized Warbeck as the rightful King of England. By February four,
Speaker 1: Sir William Stanley, the Lord Chamberlain was found guilty of
Speaker 1: treason and executed for his support of Perkin Warbeck. One
Speaker 1: of the most influential supporters of the fake Richard, Duke
Speaker 1: of York, though, was Margaret of York, Duchess of Burgundy.
Speaker 1: Margaret was the real aunt of the real Richard, but
Speaker 1: she believed the disappearance slash reappearance story that he gave.
Speaker 1: She gave him the title of the White Rose of England,
Speaker 1: the symbol of the House of York, and she referred
Speaker 1: to him as her nephew. With all of this acceptance
Speaker 1: that he just Perkin was feeling pretty successful with his
Speaker 1: new identity, and there were even many aristocrats promising to
Speaker 1: aid him in his effort to recover the throne and
Speaker 1: his inheritance. The news about the Duke of York being
Speaker 1: alive and found in Flanders didn't reach England until free
Speaker 1: and they believed it was really him because the Duchess
Speaker 1: of Burgundy herself identified and acknowledged him as so a
Speaker 1: lot of high ranking men became very interested in this
Speaker 1: Richard has returned story, including nobleman named things such as
Speaker 1: Lord Fitzwater and Sir Simon Montfort, who were actual people
Speaker 1: with wonderful monikers and other lords and sirs who openly
Speaker 1: liked him and really just considered him to be Richard,
Speaker 1: Duke of York. There were also the people, including Sir
Speaker 1: Robert Clifford and William Barley, who openly referred to Perkin instead,
Speaker 1: not as the Duke of York, but as the sham Duke.
Speaker 1: I really like that. Um. So we do need a
Speaker 1: little bit more context, though, to help understand why powerful
Speaker 1: royals would back this man and buy into this ruse.
Speaker 1: There were so many unsettled battles over power and control
Speaker 1: in Europe at this time, and even for people who
Speaker 1: maybe didn't believe that Perkin was royal, it was in
Speaker 1: their interest to to destabilize the English government and possibly
Speaker 1: install a monarch who was loyal to them all in
Speaker 1: one go. There are historians who believe that both Charles
Speaker 1: the eighth of France and Margaret of Burgundy were using
Speaker 1: Perkin actually to undermine Henry the seventh and the Holy
Speaker 1: Roman Emperor Maximilian's recognition of Perkin Warbeck as King Richard
Speaker 1: the Fourth could have been devastating if the Emperor had
Speaker 1: been more powerful and able to leverage his influence a
Speaker 1: little more effectively. Yeah, if any of these people who
Speaker 1: backed him had had just a little more yeah, we
Speaker 1: might be living in a very different history. But throughout
Speaker 1: all of these mack nations, Henry the seventh was doing
Speaker 1: his own work to ensure that this pretender did not
Speaker 1: gain the support that would have been needed to unseat him.
Speaker 1: The King of England was carefully and quietly through a
Speaker 1: Spye network, gathering intelligence and assessing the threat level, as
Speaker 1: well as identifying people who were not loyal to him.
Speaker 1: In several cases, acts of attainder were passed in Parliament
Speaker 1: naming specific people as guilty of conspiracy against the king.
Speaker 1: This legislation essentially bypassed at trial. It's sort of just
Speaker 1: legally declared a person guilty, and it opened the door
Speaker 1: for punishment, often execution, without all of that pain in
Speaker 1: the neck legal rambling. Henry the seventh, you may surmise,
Speaker 1: was not messing around with this faux Duke of York situation.
Speaker 1: Perkin made a number of tries at taking the throne,
Speaker 1: but he never actually amassed enough power to do it.
Speaker 1: He tried to land intent to march on London in
Speaker 1: summer four, but the whole thing was really just a
Speaker 1: poorly planned mess. Warbeck abandoned some of his supporters to
Speaker 1: while he fled to Ireland, which is never a good
Speaker 1: look for a would be leader. Similar scenarios played out
Speaker 1: on subsequent attempts, as Perkin gained supporters and then lost
Speaker 1: them through blunders and just an overall lack of leadership abilities. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was like, we're with you, We're with you. What
Speaker 1: you left more? Yeah? Now, after several failed attempts to
Speaker 1: secure the throne, Perkins thought sanctuary at an abbey in
Speaker 1: Hampshire before surrendering to Henry's men. When he was taken
Speaker 1: into custody, Perkin did confess his true identity. He also
Speaker 1: confessed that he had a wife, Lady Catherine Gordon, who
Speaker 1: he had married in March of that was also under
Speaker 1: the ruse because her family had approved of that marriage
Speaker 1: based on the identity he was claiming at the time
Speaker 1: of Richard, Duke of York. Surprise. So he spent six
Speaker 1: years pretending to be Richard, Duke of York, and now
Speaker 1: it had come to an end. Perkin confessed to being
Speaker 1: an impostor, but because he wasn't a British subject, he
Speaker 1: couldn't be tried for treason. Initially, Henry the seventh was
Speaker 1: fairly lenient with warback. He gave his approval for the
Speaker 1: pretender to stay at court. He was pushed like a
Speaker 1: hawk though that he was still able to live at court,
Speaker 1: So that's you know what I mean, that's not too bad.
Speaker 1: But then he tried to escape Perkin. It was after
Speaker 1: that attempt in four nine when he was put in
Speaker 1: the stocks and then sent to the Tower of London.
Speaker 1: He was later executed, but that punishment actually was not
Speaker 1: for imitating a Yorkist royal, right, that was for participating
Speaker 1: in a plot to overthrow King Henry the seventh, and
Speaker 1: for conspiring to escape the tower where he had been
Speaker 1: held for his crimes. Uh, don't don't run away from
Speaker 1: a comfy house. Arrest is the lesson. Maybe. He was
Speaker 1: hanged on November twenty three, and upon his death, his wife,
Speaker 1: Lady Catherine, was under strict orders of the king to
Speaker 1: be kept at the palace, and there she became Lady
Speaker 1: in waiting for the Queen Elizabeth of York. So, Holly,
Speaker 1: let's move onto mocktails. Who was your inspiration from this?
Speaker 1: For what she made for us today? Well? So there
Speaker 1: were a couple of things that I took into account here.
Speaker 1: I was trying to think at things that were very
Speaker 1: commonly imbibed during this time. He'll always see that thing
Speaker 1: of like everybody drank alcohol all the time because the
Speaker 1: water was dirty. That's that's not entirely accurate. But people
Speaker 1: find alcohol because it's good, right. So one of the
Speaker 1: things that was very common was cider, and so I
Speaker 1: was thinking something appily as a base might be fun.
Speaker 1: And then, of course, because I'm predictable, as I'll get out,
Speaker 1: he was nicknamed the white Rose. At one point, I
Speaker 1: was like, well, we had to get some rose flavor involved.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, when you said that you
Speaker 1: were predictable, I'm like, hire comes the rose paddles. Yes,
Speaker 1: you're coming the roses. There are numerous reasons do you
Speaker 1: use the roses here? Or so delicious um, although the
Speaker 1: rose flavor does not drive the bus in this instance,
Speaker 1: so hold on because there's other stuff. So I'm calling
Speaker 1: this the Rosy Pretender. It starts with five ounces of
Speaker 1: apple juice, and unless you really love very very sweet things,
Speaker 1: go with the lowest sugar option you can find here,
Speaker 1: because this does get very sweet in a hurry. The
Speaker 1: next thing you're gonna add, and I would put this
Speaker 1: in a shaker, is one ounce of tart cherry concentrate.
Speaker 1: This is not hard to find. I literally found it
Speaker 1: at my local grocery store. It's in the juice aile
Speaker 1: and then an ounce of rose syrup. And you're gonna
Speaker 1: shake this like the Dickens, because you really want everything
Speaker 1: to incorporate and for it to get just a little
Speaker 1: bit frothy. And then that's it poured over a ton
Speaker 1: of ice, because the ice as it melts will also
Speaker 1: help dilute that sweetness a little bit. And in the shaking,
Speaker 1: when you're shaking it with ice, that will also help
Speaker 1: dilute that sweetness. It's very bright and delicious, so um.
Speaker 1: This is a very good one for summer sipping. You
Speaker 1: can just pop your straw right in there. If you
Speaker 1: want to mess around with things, you could put some
Speaker 1: bitters in here and do something very interesting. I think
Speaker 1: some people that would want to drink a mocktail don't
Speaker 1: want to touch a bitter, but there are some very
Speaker 1: good cherry bitters. It would be lovely. You could also
Speaker 1: toss an angi stir in here and just get a
Speaker 1: different flavor profile that kind of deepens the whole thing
Speaker 1: for my drinkers in the crowd. If you want to
Speaker 1: make this into an alcoholic version, um, I think to
Speaker 1: retain those flavors, you really want to go with a
Speaker 1: neutral spirit, which means, you know, vodka essentially, because otherwise
Speaker 1: things are going to play with those berry and rose
Speaker 1: flavors together. What happens when you sip it is, even
Speaker 1: though it's all been incorporated, the flavors hit you kind
Speaker 1: of in a row. So you get apple heart upfront
Speaker 1: with that cherry flavor, and then the roses kind of
Speaker 1: like at the end goes hello, I'm roses, um, and
Speaker 1: it's very very yummy. My rose petals talk to me
Speaker 1: as well, Like is that not how flavors reveal themselves
Speaker 1: to you? Hello, I'm hello, I hugging you with deliciousness.
Speaker 1: Yours are very friendly. Mine are very friendly because I
Speaker 1: love to taste things. Um. And you know, you kind
Speaker 1: of can't go wrong with these three. But like I said,
Speaker 1: it is a very sweet drink if you are doing
Speaker 1: it with the apple juice that has like regular sugar levels.
Speaker 1: Even Cutch I did one with UM, even a pretty
Speaker 1: reduced sugar level. It was like less sugar and even
Speaker 1: that I was like, well, that's very sweet. So find
Speaker 1: your hippie apple juice that has very little sugar in it.
Speaker 1: And that's really where you want to go with this.
Speaker 1: Tell me the name of it again. It's called the
Speaker 1: rosy Pretender. The rosy pretender. Huh. Everything should taste like roses.
Speaker 1: It just makes life better. I'm sure there are people
Speaker 1: who do not concur, but that is fine. Here's the thing.
Speaker 1: This is one of those things too that's easy to
Speaker 1: mess with. I would stick with that tart cherry concentrate
Speaker 1: because it really kind of defines the flavor. But outside
Speaker 1: of that, you could do some really interesting experimenting with
Speaker 1: different syrup flavors. You could even throw like an orga
Speaker 1: in there and give it an almond flavor, which would
Speaker 1: also be very interesting. It won't be a rosy pretender anymore,
Speaker 1: but um, it'll be something else. You could definitely do.
Speaker 1: Like any of the tart fruits, like a tart apple
Speaker 1: syrup in there would be great. You could do you
Speaker 1: like a mango, might do something very interesting. As I
Speaker 1: always say, substitute stuff out and experiment. Find something super
Speaker 1: yummy for you. It should always be playful and fun.
Speaker 1: That's the whole point. It should be right. It isn't
Speaker 1: that you're supposed to be living your life. That's how
Speaker 1: I live my life. Thank you again for spending another
Speaker 1: another podcast with us, listening to us prattle on about histories,
Speaker 1: strange and unusual people. We will be right back here
Speaker 1: once again next week with another impostor and more. Hopefully
Speaker 1: you may beverages. Criminalia is a production of Shonda land
Speaker 1: Audio in partnership with I heart Radio. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: from Shonda land Audio, please visit the I heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,