1 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane. 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: Never told you the production of I Heart Radio. Today. 3 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: We're very excited. It's time for one of our very 4 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: favorite segments here on Sminty Female First, and that means 5 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: we are joined by one of our very favorite people, Eves. Hello, Eves, Hey, y'all, 6 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: how are you? How are you doing? Eves? I am 7 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: doing well. I feel like that's such a loaded question, 8 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 1: is that true? Um? Any time anybody asked me how 9 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: I'm doing, I'm like, oh, I have to feel all 10 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: the fields right now. Um. But it's but it's a 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: good thing. Like I'm I'm okay with working through that. Um, 12 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: but I feel, um, I feel hopeful. Okay, I'll say that. Okay, 13 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: that's supposed to be. Yeah, Um, I'm I am very 14 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: excited to talk about the person you've brought for us today, Eves. So, 15 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: who who did you choose? I am very excited to 16 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: talk about Lucy hicks Anderson. She's who will be talking 17 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: about today. UM. And it's honestly so long overdue to 18 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: be talking about a trans woman on in this series. UM. 19 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: I feel like there's a lot that's not known about 20 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: her history. But I did a deep dive into all 21 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: of the newspaper articles on her, and it's super weird 22 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: and also fascinating to kind of track the way that 23 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: um the local newspaper was talking about her. But UM, 24 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: just to say what her first is, it was, UM 25 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,919 Speaker 1: was she was considered one of the first trans people 26 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: to fight for trans rights in court and consider the first, 27 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: like black American trans woman to be put on trial 28 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: for her identity. And as always, like you know, there's 29 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: so many first happening for trans women like today just 30 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: because of access, because of whose story is told and 31 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: and distributed. And that being said, like trans women have 32 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: been pioneers for so long. Um, They've been first for 33 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: so long, but have so frequently gone unrecognized. UM. So yeah, 34 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: that caveat that happens around first happens here just like 35 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: as we always do in other episodes. But UM, it's 36 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: particularly relevant in this case just because of how frequent 37 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: trans women, and especially trans black women go. I'm recognized 38 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: in history absolutely, and um selfishly one of my biggest 39 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: frustrations when I research, UM, women of history ism or 40 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: just history in general, the terminology didn't exist, and I 41 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: never ever ever want to UM use the wrong identity 42 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: for someone if I can help it. UM. But for 43 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: so long there was no terminology and and because of that, Yeah, 44 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: it's I'm glad you put that caveat UM that so 45 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: many people have probably definitely did have first that are unrecognized. Yeah, 46 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 1: I was definitely going to bring up the language thing. 47 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: I mean, as we know, language is always changing, and 48 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: we want to use the terminology that a person would 49 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: have wanted to use for themselves, and that um Lucy 50 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: Hicks Anderson has been put in this category of you know, 51 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: trans woman, and for that reason we can say it 52 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: was that first for a trans woman. But you know, 53 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: terms like trans sexual, transgender, UM and like to spirit 54 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: are relatively new U through like over the course of 55 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: history in terms of when and were coined and when 56 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: they started becoming part of popular usage. UM. But the trans, 57 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: non binary and gender queer identities have really existed for 58 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: so long, for centuries. And obviously gender is complicated, and 59 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: our knowledge around it and our understanding of and perception 60 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: of it is consistently UM transforming. And it's also still personal, 61 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: you know, it's so personal UM and so specific to 62 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: a person. So that means that like finding first for 63 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: trans folks who are no longer with us I can't 64 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: speak for themselves is really difficult and but but still 65 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: also so important to me, is like, because that's so difficult, 66 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: I think that's why it's important to bring to the 67 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: forefront a person like Lucy hicks Anderson. Like I can't 68 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,679 Speaker 1: I can't just say, oh, it's difficult. I'm not gonna 69 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: like talk about this person and try to frame it 70 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,559 Speaker 1: as a first because the language around it is changing. 71 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,799 Speaker 1: Let me just bring her story to the forefront, because 72 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: that's what needs to happen. UM. And that's on top 73 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: of the fact that they were so often marginalized and 74 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: persecuted for their identities, regardless of what the identity was 75 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 1: called UM, and they had to be very discerning about 76 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: how they presented themselves and what they chose to record, 77 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: because you know, once it's it's it's once it's written, 78 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: once it's recorded, is there. And also on top of that, 79 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: their histories were often sidelined by siss folks who were 80 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,559 Speaker 1: actually doing the recording of the history. So all those 81 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: things like that just makes this a multilayered situation, but 82 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: doesn't negate the fact that Lucy Hicks anderson story is 83 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: one that we deserve to learn about. No, yeah, yeah, yeah, 84 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: And I love this was such an amazing story. I 85 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: love it was almost like a page turner because I thought, oh, 86 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: I first looked her up, okay, chef uh, and then 87 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 1: I was reading along, Oh wow, this is going in 88 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: a direction I really didn't anticipate. Yeah. Yeah, a lot 89 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: of twists and earns. I will say that in her story. 90 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: I'll just start off with the content warning up front, 91 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: because there is some mention of violence against women in 92 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: this conversation. Um, but yeah, it's like a it's twists 93 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: and turns in this story, I mean, and it's super fascinating. 94 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: And I think also telling that like the people who 95 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: were the ones who recorded her words, like, I think 96 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: we have to be careful because in the newspapers that 97 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: quote her, it's like she's not quoting herself. Those are 98 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: other people who are saying what she said in the courtroom. 99 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: So but yeah, um, a lot of twists and turns. 100 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: So shall we shall we begin? So she was born 101 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: in Waddi, Kentucky in eight um. She grew up there 102 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: and she knew from a young age that she was 103 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: a girl, So she wore dresses and she started going 104 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: by the name Lucy when she was super young. And 105 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: the story, as the story goes, her mother took her 106 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: to a doctor when she was nine and the dit 107 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: to recommended that they raised her as a girl, and 108 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: so she left school at age fifteen and she began 109 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: doing domestic work. So after a while, um, a little 110 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: bit later in life, she married her first husband, Clarence Hicks, 111 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: and that was in nineteen twenty, and she did later 112 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: divorce him in nineteen nine. They actually separated I think 113 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: around nineteen six, like before they got to the point 114 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: of actual divorce, they have been separated for a while. 115 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: But when they were together, they moved to Oxnard, California, 116 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: And so she did domestic work there too. And as 117 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: you brought up earlier, Andy, she worked as a chef. 118 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: She was like she was popping in Oxnard. After she 119 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: saved enough money, she purchased a boarding house and she 120 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: ran a brothel there and to speak easy and this 121 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: was during prohibition and so yeah, like I said, she 122 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: was popping. Like she was really well known for in 123 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: the community. She would host parties um that people love 124 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: to have of her at in terms of her serving 125 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: and her hosting and her cooking, and she also appeared 126 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: in the city and county courts a lot um when 127 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: she and other sex workers in her establishment were arrested 128 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: in raids, and reportedly when she got arrested one night, 129 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: Oxnard's quote unquote leading banker built her out because he 130 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: had planned a huge dinner party that would have failed 131 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: if she were actually incarcerated, So he wanted her to 132 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: be there so badly. You built her out. My dinner 133 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: party is in danger shaped my money, Yeah, which I 134 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: think speaks to just how well liked and well loved 135 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: she was in the community there. Yeah. So in nineteen 136 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: four she married Ruben Anderson, who was in the army. 137 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: And there's not a ton of information out there about 138 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: her life, but according to scholar see Riley snorton Um 139 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: who wrote the book Black on Both Sides, a Racial 140 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: History of trans Identity, which has a lot of cool 141 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: information on Lucy Hicks Anderson in there, but a lot 142 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,599 Speaker 1: that was documented about her was taken from articles that 143 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 1: were written between nineteen and nineteen and that's when her 144 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: child's actually started getting a lot of media coverage across 145 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: the US. Um a lot of It was obviously centered 146 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: in California because um, like Oxnard and that's where it 147 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: was based. But there was also national coverage of her 148 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: court cases, which we'll get to in a second. I 149 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: would recommend, like, if you're interested in learning more about 150 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: Lucy Hicks Anderson reading those newspapers. They are documented online, 151 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: like you can't get access to them online. But there 152 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: is a lot of dehumanizing anti trans language and in 153 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: those in those articles as well as like a lot 154 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: of miss gendering the is dead naming in there, and 155 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: they put her name in quotes. Uh so yeah, like 156 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: that's expect that when you read through those articles, Like 157 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: they often appended negro to to her name. They were 158 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 1: like Lucy Hicks Anderson negro or Lucy Hicks negro, like 159 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: that was an essential part of her name. Um, and 160 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: often too would call her like John Doe and then 161 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: put Lucy in parentheses or like just straight up call 162 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: her the ox Nart negro as if there was only one. 163 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: There was only one black person in Oxnard at the time, 164 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,599 Speaker 1: and you bet it was Lucy Hicks Anderson. Um. But 165 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 1: all that said, like there is uh that that's the 166 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 1: language that you'll encounter when you're reading these descriptions of 167 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: all the stuff that was happening to Lucy at the time. 168 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: We have some more for you listeners, but first we 169 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: have a quick break for a word from our sponsor, 170 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: and we're back, Thank you sponsor. Speaking of articles, um, 171 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: there is this one that that comes up that's kind 172 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: of a flashpoint in her life. On November five, there 173 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: was an issue of Time magazine that included an article 174 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: on Lucy. Yeah, and it was called it was the 175 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: title of the article was Sin and Sue Flay. Oh 176 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: you can imagine what this is going to be about, um. 177 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: And it was titled that because according to the article, 178 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: that's what Lucy trafficked in Sin and Sue Flay quotes 179 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: trafficked ja um. And the article describes how she cooked 180 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: for ox and Narts leading families, and how her cooking 181 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: was the quote unquote talk of the town. So I 182 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 1: want to read an excerpt from the article so you 183 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: can get a better sense of her character and appearance 184 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: through the through the words of the person who wrote 185 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: the article. But here's the quote. As ox Nart grew, 186 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: Lucy's lone body house expanded into a half block of 187 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: frame buildings, each well furnished, neatly painted, and with window 188 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: boxes full of geraniums. In Ventura County, she became as 189 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: well known as ox Nart's huge American Crystal Sugar Company refinery. 190 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: Lucy was the more spectacular site. She wore bright, low 191 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: cut silk dresses, from which her slat like collar bones protruded, 192 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 1: and she affected picture hats and high heeled shoes. Her 193 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: wigs were her pride. She had a long black wavy one, 194 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: a short, straight bobbed one, and for special occasions, a 195 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: shoulder limp job in red um. Yeah. So her wigs 196 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: is like one thing people love to talk about in 197 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: these in these articles they were like obsessed with her wigs. Um. Yeah. 198 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: So it also said in the article she gave generously 199 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: to the Red Cross, to the Boy Scouts, into the charities, 200 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: and all in all in total, like the the articles 201 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,559 Speaker 1: really laudatory of of her life in ox Nard and 202 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: the things that she did in ox Nard. Um. It 203 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: was said that in the article she was immune to 204 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: the law because of her local fame and knowledge of 205 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: town secrets. And I'm like, oh, I want to know 206 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: these towns because but that those weren't those weren't mentioned, 207 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: so I'm like, well, what are those anyway? She had? 208 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: That also said that she had purchased nearly fifty dollars 209 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: in war bonds. Basically, the tone of the article in 210 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 1: the beginning was Lucy was doing really well. You know, 211 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: she was this great community figures. He did a lot 212 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: for a lot of people. She was you know, she 213 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: was moneyed. Um. But at the end of the article 214 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: it was like this if not Shamalan twist, where it 215 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: was like the like it said that a sailor had 216 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: gotten an s t I from one of the women 217 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: at Lucy's brothel, and of course it's posturing this in 218 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: a way where like that's a bad thing. And the 219 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: article said that the women there, including Lucy, were four 220 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: to undergo a medical exam. Um, when this sailor had 221 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: brought up this instance. Um, And there's this kicker at 222 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: the end of the article. Um. The very last sentence 223 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: of the article was Lucy was a man. Like. That 224 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: was the punchline. Um. And the whole life that they 225 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: described so glowingly up until that point was like part 226 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: of the joke. Um, so yeah, super bad. But it 227 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: was this led to like a basically another attain of events, 228 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: like it was a snowball after this whole forced medical 229 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: examination situation, um, so it was revealed that Lucy was 230 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: assigned mill at birth um. And then at that point 231 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: the Ventura County District Attorney voided her marriage to Ruben 232 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: and arrested her for perjury. So he justified that charge 233 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: by saying that she signed the marriage license saying that 234 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: there were no legal object to the marriage. So in 235 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: that case, at the time, marriage was supposed to be 236 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: between a man and a woman. That was how marriage 237 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: was defined, and in their eyes, Lucy was not a woman. 238 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: So by saying that there were no legal adjusts to 239 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: the marriage by signing the marriage license, she was in 240 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: effect committing fraud, like she was lying. So she pleaded 241 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: not guilty to that charge of perjury. And at the 242 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: same time, the whole time, the district attorney was maintaining 243 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: that she was a man and therefore incapable of marrying Reuben. 244 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: And yeah, that's how that the whole situation kind of 245 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: started in snowballed into a lot more back and forth 246 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: with the court system. Yeah, I feel like that Times 247 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: article was just kind of like a gotcha article. They 248 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: were trying to be so shocking, trying to get the 249 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: shock value. It's such a weird like way of leading 250 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: out to it. I also think that it worked in 251 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: opposition to the goal that they were trying to that 252 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: it seems like they were trying to go for, which 253 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: is like, well, you she's an amazing person as far 254 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: as you tell me, like the first three quarters of 255 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: this article, and it wasn't that long, the first five 256 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: six of this article is are very praising of Lucy. 257 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: So like, as far as I can tell, like, what's 258 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: the issue, which was she sounds like she's like a 259 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: source of joy in this community. Um, that's that's the 260 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: impression that I got from it. Um. So yeah, it 261 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: seems it's very uh weird, but also you know, not 262 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: to be expected, you know. Yeah. So she went through 263 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: a week long trial in Vincia County and there was 264 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: medical testimony given as a trial where the doctors attested 265 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: that Lucy was a man um and Louise Gale testified 266 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: as Lucy's sister. She said that she was Lucy's sister, 267 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: and she affirmed Lucy's testimony that doctor had told her 268 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: that she was quote more of a girl than a 269 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: boy in her childhood, referring back to the um part 270 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 1: of her life that we spoke about earlier when her 271 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: her mother took her to the doctor. So Lucy testified 272 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: that Ruben was her husband. When they asked her, is 273 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: rooming your husband? She said yes, And she also said 274 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: that she planned on staying with him till death. Do 275 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: us part um? Yeah. So Lucy's defense attorney presented this 276 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: theory that Lucy had quote unquote hidden organs that couldn't 277 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: be discovered until she went through an autopsy after she died. 278 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: So I want to highlight because this just says it 279 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: so concisely, um in a way better than I could. 280 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: But I wanted to highlight Apart from Snortin's black on 281 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: both Sides book that I mentioned earlier, I'm just gonna 282 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 1: read a quote here in exchange for an unincarcerated life. 283 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: Hicks Anderson's hidden organs defense offered up her corpse to 284 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: be put to indefinite institutional use, indexing the medical industries 285 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: sustained practice of experimentation on black bodies in the United States. 286 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: Though hicks Anderson's defense comprised a critique of medical wisdom 287 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: as a science of the surface. It also highlighted how 288 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: black flesh had long been central to medical professional knowledge, 289 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: and it's so relevant to things still happening today. You know, 290 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: black bodies being offered up for medical experimentation and for 291 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: use as if they should just be objectified and treated 292 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: as flesh in the wording of the author from that quote. Yeah, 293 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: and it's just gross, to put it plainly. So on 294 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: November seven, a jury found Lucy guilty of perjury and 295 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,719 Speaker 1: she was incarcerated in the men's section of the Ventura 296 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: County Jail, something that's also still happening to this day. Um. 297 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: She was facing a term of up to fourteen years 298 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: in state prison. I think it was a minimum of 299 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: one year and and maximum of fourteen years in state 300 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: prison for quote unquote perjury UM on this marriage marriage license. 301 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: But she was in the end sentenced to ten years 302 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: on probation UM, with the first year spent in county jail. 303 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: So she was incarcerated at the county jail from December 304 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: of nineteen forty five to May of nineteen forty six 305 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 1: and in early June of that year. After she was released. 306 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: In early June of nineteen forty six, she held a 307 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: political rally and cook out to encourage people to vote. 308 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: And you can read an article about this talking about 309 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: the political rally that she held actually UM and they 310 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: said it was a democratic political rally. But the quotes 311 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: that they give from Lucy Hicks Anderson in the article itself, 312 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: and she's like, I'm not for anybody, you know, I'm 313 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: just here. She was kind of very neutral in the situation, UM, 314 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: even though I think the rally was for like sheriff 315 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: and obviously positioned within the times in the conversations we're 316 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: having around, you know, really taking a stand in the 317 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: ways that we talk about policing. UM right now is 318 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: it was just funny to read the article like the 319 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: context of contemporary times. But all that said, UM, there 320 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: is an article about that political rally, and and you know, 321 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: positioning her as this person who's upstanding in the community 322 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: and like holding these events that people want to go to. UM. 323 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 1: But she would soon be in car s again. So 324 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: rewinding a little bit, you know, back in October of nineteen, 325 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 1: an FBI agent actually arrested her for failing to register 326 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: for the draft in World War two. While she was 327 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: awaiting her trial for perjury. Her charge for violating the 328 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: Selective Service Act was actually dismissed, so that charge for 329 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: not registering for the draft was dismissed, but that FBI 330 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: agent went hunting for information on whether she was getting 331 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: allowances from the government for being the wife of a 332 00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: service members. He was like, I'm gonna get you now, 333 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: Like maybe I couldn't get you for the draft thing, 334 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: but you know we're gonna find something. Um. Yeah, So 335 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: Lucy did admit to getting texts from Reuben, but the 336 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: question was whether she was just getting allotments for Reuben 337 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: or she was getting a wife a quote unquote wife 338 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: allowance which was partly from a service member's pay and 339 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: then partly from the U. S. Treasury. So that made 340 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 1: it a whole different situation since he would be getting 341 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: money from the actual US government. Um. So if the 342 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: latter was the case, she would also be accused of 343 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: defrauding the government. So of course, this entire time, Lucy 344 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: was having to affirm that she was a woman, like 345 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: she was having to defend her identity. Reuben was also arrested. 346 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: Her husband was also arrested while he was on duty 347 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: at Mitchell Field in New York. So he was a 348 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: corporal in the Army Air Forces. UM. This was before 349 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: the Air Force was established as a separate branch. So 350 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: they were convicted of fraud UM, and Lucy was sentenced 351 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 1: to a year in jail and a nine hundred dollar 352 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: fine in July of nineteen forty six. And so that 353 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: nine hundred dollars was about the same amount that she 354 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 1: had gotten in allotments. And just to put that in context, 355 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: like that's about twelve thousand dollars today when you're accounting 356 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: for inflation. Reuben was also sentenced to a year in 357 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: jail in New York. So yeah, um, Lucy. She was 358 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: also prohibited from wearing traditionally feminine clothes UM. And when 359 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: they were released from jail, they were banned from returning 360 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: to Oxnard, and Lucy was still in probation. But in 361 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: nineteen forty nine, Lucy was released from the terms of 362 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: her probation after it was discovered that she had sold 363 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: her ox and Art property. So the judge still advised 364 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 1: that she stayed out of ox and Art for at 365 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: least the next year. But you know, after at that point, 366 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: Lucy she rarely returned to ox Nard, and she spoke 367 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: of missing her friends there, of course, UM, I can 368 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: only imagine what it was like for her to go 369 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: through that like emotionally and and be essentially eggs out 370 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: from a place where she created so much love and 371 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: so much community and like was thriving mhm in a way. 372 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: Obviously there was still a lot that she was up against, 373 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: but um was a very active member of her community. UM. Yeah. 374 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: So they lived in Los Angeles at that point, and 375 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: Lucy died in Los Angeles in nineteen fifty four, and 376 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: it was reported in the Ventura County Star Free Press, 377 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: which is where that's the newspaper. You can read a 378 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: lot of the articles that reported on her kind of 379 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: like especially in that nineteen forty six time period where 380 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: it's just kind of like, okay article, there's a point 381 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: where it's like an article every other day following her 382 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: court case. UM. But yeah, it was reported there that 383 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: a niece was with her at death, um and unnamed Denise. 384 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: I don't think they named the niece in the article, 385 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,239 Speaker 1: but that they also said that her creamation and her 386 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: burial were unattended. We have a little bit more for 387 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: you listeners, but first we have one more quick break 388 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsor and her back, Thank 389 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: you sponsor. So that's the story of Lucy Hicks Anderson 390 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: and definitely one that I think it's so important to tell, 391 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: and it's also just so interesting to look back on. Yeah, um, 392 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: I totally agree. Uh, I'm so. I was so glad 393 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: that you you picked this one. And again I agree 394 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: that I hadn't heard of her earlier. Uh. So it's 395 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: always great to spotlight these people that we should be spotlighting. Um. 396 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 1: And her story is amazing, Like I I wasn't exaggerating 397 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: before when I was like learning about her so excitedly 398 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: and it was like, oh and this and then there's 399 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: a brothel and it's prohibition, but everybody liked there so 400 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: much they let it go on all right. And yeah, 401 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: having reading about someone who was so well loved and 402 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: it seems so generous with her herself and her time 403 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: and her money, um yeah, and it just made me 404 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:43,199 Speaker 1: sort of like it was very inspiring. And also sometimes 405 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 1: I get really model in these days about like I'll 406 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: remember when we could do this thing with people, and 407 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: just reading about all the community functions she she planned 408 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: and like the welcome home parties and right, she just 409 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: seems so kind as um, I mean, according to the 410 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: articles and even just what we you were talking about 411 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: and the small bits that I was able to love research. 412 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,239 Speaker 1: She was a pillar in that community. Um and because uh, 413 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: the doctor was forcibly trying to I don't know, identify 414 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: all the women in the brothel, which sounds very political 415 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 1: in its way. Of course, UM had to take down 416 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: a woman who only wanted to love people. And I 417 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: don't you know, it's just such a big statement of 418 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: this label of what did this do? How did this help? 419 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: It help no one. There was nothing about what happened 420 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: that actually helped anyone other than her coming out and 421 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: saying I will fight for who I am, and this 422 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: is who I am. It's not even bigger than I'm 423 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: going to fight because I am a woman and I've 424 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: been a woman, and I don't understand you've been accepting 425 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: me as a woman. That's what you've seen. And there 426 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: was no question until this nonsense essentially comes about. And 427 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 1: I do love I did watch a small, a short 428 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: documentary on her when they as she was she was 429 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: not a bus starting the rules, and I was like, 430 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: I like her so much. I wish I had that courage. Yeah, yeah, 431 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: well then that's what makes it so like extra sad 432 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: that she essentially was exiled from a police she was 433 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: so well uved and I had built up, um all 434 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: these friends and then um for her funeral to be unattended. 435 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: That's that's so sadh. Yeah, I think that. Yeah, like 436 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 1: you said, Samantha, it just it doesn't make any sense 437 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: to pull somebody, I mean out of a community that 438 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: was contributing so much to that community, Like what is 439 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: this going to do for you? But that's how anti 440 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: transness works, that's how anti blackness works, um, and all 441 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: of those things that are wrapped up in in the 442 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: life and story of Lucy hicks Anderson that you know 443 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: there was and then the issue of morality on top 444 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: of that in terms of her being along with with 445 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: and obviously all the things of the unnamed sex workers, 446 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: because I didn't see any names of the sex workers 447 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: who were also involved in in all of the rates 448 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: that were happening. But I think it's worthy to call 449 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: out just that, you know, there were a lot of 450 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: other people who are also implicated in the things that 451 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: were happening along with Lucy hicks Anderson. But yeah, it's 452 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: just indicative and the thing that's still happening today when 453 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: it comes to the way that trans black people are treated. 454 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: Um And it's like, you know, frustrating to see that 455 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: Lucy Hicks Anderson was born in eighteen eighty six, like 456 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: that was a long time ago. Um. She operated during Prohibition, 457 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: which like feels so long ago for us. It was 458 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: it was you know, over the whole course of history, 459 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: not super long, but I mean, you know, we're so 460 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: removed from from that kind of time right now. So yeah, 461 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: it is frustrating so many ways to see what Lucy 462 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: hicks Anderson had to go through. Um And even though 463 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: a lot of her story isn't told through her eyes 464 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: and through the eyes of the people who are writing 465 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: these articles, it is refreshing to be able to kind 466 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: of get a chance to form this image of a person, 467 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: this full round character, because I think so often, um, 468 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: we don't get that opportunity to see a person as 469 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: round and as dynamic as Lucy hicks Anderson has been presented. 470 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: Like I was saying earlier in that Time Magazine article 471 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: is like y'all try to make her flat, but guess 472 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: what y'all did the opposite, Like y'all, y'all didn't take 473 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: her personality away from her, like y'all still afforded her 474 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: that And I can see that through the article, no 475 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: matter what y'all were trying to do. And you know, 476 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: I appreciate getting the opportunity to at least try to 477 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: be able to imagine Lucy Hicks Anderson in this more 478 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: expansive way where um, I see that y'all were trying 479 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: to kind of make fun of her in these articles. 480 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: The way y' all talked about how she she walked 481 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: in with her wigs on and her her quote unquote 482 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: women's suits on, and the way that she spoke about 483 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: her husband, Ruben and like saying yeah, like we're good. 484 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: And when they found out that she had been she 485 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: actually had been married before Ruben, that was a whole 486 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: other thing. You know. They were like, oh, like you 487 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: were divorced with somebody help. Yeah. So they did a 488 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: lot to try to tear her down, But I was 489 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: still able to see her as this, this fool person, 490 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: this whole um human being. I think in looking back 491 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: at the documentation of her and I am, you know, 492 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: happy that we are able to to bring these stories 493 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: some light today. Yes, it wasn't. Yeah, I just keep 494 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: thinking because it's very small bit of what we have 495 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: in her history, as you were saying, um, and it's 496 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: very limited through the articles. But yeah, everything you read, 497 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: every time I was jumped from one thing to another. 498 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: It was just pretty much how she kept pushing and 499 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: did bigger like whether it's you know, saying at a 500 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: young age, no, I'm a girl and the doctor being like, yeah, 501 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: you are, to coming out at fifteen making our own living, 502 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: to being able to pay fifty dollars for a home 503 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: and business and she's just doing it, and it's like, um, 504 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: there's really not much to be said other than she's 505 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: a success in the story and she made sure that 506 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: people need well and you I guess history made sure 507 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: that we knew she was successful. And then that's it 508 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: and that's what she got outed by. Yeah. Yeah, Um 509 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: it's like I'm not I'm not being fooled. No, no, um, 510 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: it is. I mean it's terribly terribly frustrating and sad, 511 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: but also kind of like you're saying, it's it's almost 512 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: funny because it's like you're saying all of these nice things, 513 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: like if you're just giving me these sort of facts 514 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: and they all sound really good, like mm hmm. It's 515 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: like they've just they were missing the whole point, um, 516 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: and it it almost becomes a joke on them. And 517 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: of course the power dynamics make it a dangerous thing, 518 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: um and one that yeah, we're still seeing today, so 519 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: there is that that layer to it. But yeah, I mean, 520 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: especially with our modern eyes, I was reading a lot 521 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: of these articles like this person sounds amazing, but I 522 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: can tell you're trying to convince me that they're not. 523 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, one of my friends with her, she's the 524 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: connection that I would have wanted to have right at 525 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: that point in time. I need the dinner party. It's 526 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: really to get her out of jail because she was 527 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: so essential. Yeah. Yeah, And I just wanted to, Um, 528 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: I think I know that the documentary you were talking about, 529 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: the short documentary. Um, we've been around dot com, yes, yes, yeah, 530 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: we've been around. Yeah. I just wanted to, you know, 531 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: call attention to that. Thank you as always for for 532 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: stopping by Eve's. UM. Always a pleasure, and we really 533 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: appreciate you bringing these stories, UM. Legitimately excited every time 534 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: to figure to learn who you are spotlighting. UM. So 535 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, thank you. Where can the listeners 536 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: find you. Um, so y'all can find me at Eve's 537 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: Jeff co on Twitter. You can find me at not 538 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 1: Apologizing on Instagram. I am no longer the host of 539 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: This Day in History Class, but there's a huge backlog 540 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: of episodes for the show, so if you still want 541 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: to hear my voice on the show, UM, you can 542 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: listen to This Day and History Class. Um. You can 543 00:33:54,040 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: also listen to Unpopular and that's what I got, y'all awesome, awesome. 544 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: Definitely go check Eve's out listeners. She's amazing. UM. You 545 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: can also contact us if you want. Yes, that's right, 546 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: we have an email address. It is Stuff Media, mom 547 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: Stuff at I heart media dot com. You can also 548 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: find us on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You 549 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always 550 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,800 Speaker 1: to our super producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to you 551 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: for listening Stuff I've Never Told You. It was a 552 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,879 Speaker 1: production of IRT Radio. For more podcast from iHeart Radio, 553 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: you can visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 554 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.