Speaker 1: Welcome to Inside the Studio presented by I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Joe Leaving. Okay, so probably none of
Speaker 1: you are surprised that the sales of things like puzzles, sweatpants,
Speaker 1: and pajamas have been booming during the pandemic, But it
Speaker 1: was news a few weeks back that the sales of
Speaker 1: guitars was searching as well. So it turns out that, yes,
Speaker 1: strumming is soothing, but learning to play the guitar or
Speaker 1: any new instrument is good for you. The New York
Speaker 1: Times talked with a neuroscientist, Daniel Levitton, who wrote a
Speaker 1: book called This Is Your Brand on music, and he
Speaker 1: explained that taking up a new instrument requires you to
Speaker 1: grow new neural pathways, and I think we can all
Speaker 1: agree we'd like as many new neural pathways as we
Speaker 1: can lay our reins on. Anyway, if you did buy
Speaker 1: a new guitar, you actually had the opportunity to take
Speaker 1: some lessons from the guest on this episode of the
Speaker 1: home edition of the show, James Bay, who has been
Speaker 1: spending two days a week during lockdown on Instagram teaching
Speaker 1: fans how to play his songs. We started the home
Speaker 1: edition of inside the studio to let you know how
Speaker 1: the pandemic has impacted the lives of artists and how
Speaker 1: it's affecting the way they make music. But this is
Speaker 1: just a great example of how one musician decided to
Speaker 1: combat the isolation we've all had to deal with by
Speaker 1: giving back. And James Bay told our Quarantine correspondent Jordan
Speaker 1: Runtog all about the album that he was finishing in
Speaker 1: Nashville just before Lockdown, working with the producer Dave Cobb,
Speaker 1: who has made amazing records with artists like Jason Isabel
Speaker 1: and Brandy Carlyle. James also talked about how his music
Speaker 1: has taken a turn towards the positive. So if you
Speaker 1: enjoy the episode, be sure to check out the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio podcast that Jordan's hosts. It's called Rivals Music's
Speaker 1: Greatest Feuds, and it's available wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody,
Speaker 1: My name is Jordan run Tug, But enough about me.
Speaker 1: My guest today is a British singer songwriter whose soulful
Speaker 1: voice has been compared to the late great Jeff Buckley.
Speaker 1: His explosive debut in earned him three Grammy nominations and
Speaker 1: global hits like Let It Go and Hold Back the River.
Speaker 1: Earlier this year, he went down to Nashville's historic r
Speaker 1: C A studio AD to work on his upcoming third album,
Speaker 1: and in July we heard a taste when he dropped
Speaker 1: his latest single, the sensual Chew on My Heart. I'm
Speaker 1: so thrilled to welcome the extremely suave Mr James Bay.
Speaker 1: Thank you, wow, kind words. Thank you for that wonderful introduction.
Speaker 1: I'm good. Uh, it's a strange time. I'm sure we'll
Speaker 1: kind of stop there one way or another, but it's
Speaker 1: still nice to be talking to you. It's so great
Speaker 1: to have you. I mean, as you said, the last
Speaker 1: few months have been tough on all of us. How
Speaker 1: have you been staying grounded and feeling good? Um? Well,
Speaker 1: it was an interesting one because I got home from
Speaker 1: Nashville and twenty four hours later Lockdown began in the
Speaker 1: UK for the first time. So that was like, it
Speaker 1: was such an amazing start to the year. I was
Speaker 1: writing right up until I went to the studio for
Speaker 1: this third record, and then I traveled over to Nashville.
Speaker 1: We did what we did, had a great time. I
Speaker 1: came home and that happened and there was a beat
Speaker 1: in time where everybody, including the music industry, kind of
Speaker 1: went can we go on? Can we go forward? Or
Speaker 1: is or is this kind of it? And are we
Speaker 1: going to have to weather quite an intense stall. But
Speaker 1: I suppose I'm feeling good today. Obviously that was a
Speaker 1: few months back now that lockdown stuff started in anybody's life,
Speaker 1: definitely in mind here in the UK, and I'm feeling
Speaker 1: good because it was only a beat in the music
Speaker 1: industry that that that we felt like we couldn't go forward. Obviously,
Speaker 1: live is still very tricky playing show and stuff, but
Speaker 1: I've obviously been able to put out a new single
Speaker 1: despite the times, and that is really exciting. So I'm
Speaker 1: feeling pretty good. That's so good to hear, you know,
Speaker 1: single two of My Heart, which is I don't think
Speaker 1: I've ever heard the expression of love phrase quite that
Speaker 1: way in music before I tell me about that song, Yeah,
Speaker 1: no one seems to have, and neither hard I. It's
Speaker 1: not I'm not like I haven't keep it a secret. Um.
Speaker 1: I suppose that was actually a really exciting moment. It
Speaker 1: is I think for any songwriter and you feel like
Speaker 1: you might have coined a phrase like kind of for
Speaker 1: the first time, and there's no telling whether it will
Speaker 1: catch on at all, but it jumped out at me.
Speaker 1: I was sat with my guitar, singing around kind of
Speaker 1: melodic ideas, you know, any kind of version of la
Speaker 1: la la, and sort of shaping vowel sounds and never
Speaker 1: quite saying complete words. And what sounded I suppose like
Speaker 1: a phrase too, or my heart came out and and
Speaker 1: it formed itself and I kind of in the room.
Speaker 1: I went chew on my heart that whatever was, I
Speaker 1: said to myself, and I remember this, well, I have
Speaker 1: to have it. I have to I have to turn
Speaker 1: it into And this is a pretty sort of textbook
Speaker 1: moment for any songwriter, whether it's a phrase you've heard
Speaker 1: before or not. If you're attached to it, if it
Speaker 1: if it's attractive, then you want to work it. Unless
Speaker 1: you've already come to the sort of songwriting situation with
Speaker 1: something to say and something want to write about. The
Speaker 1: other way of doing things is this one where you go, okay,
Speaker 1: cannot apply to something real, something that's real for me,
Speaker 1: something that's that I really want to kind of get
Speaker 1: out in the form of song. And I was able
Speaker 1: to do that, and I'm really glad because it's a
Speaker 1: probably Zaney sort of phrase entitle and those ones are
Speaker 1: always the best ones to sort of go with. There
Speaker 1: is an interview gave recently in the UK where you said,
Speaker 1: in the past, you've been writing from a place of sadness.
Speaker 1: I guess I'm thinking about your EP or my messy mind.
Speaker 1: What's responsible for this new bout of of musical optimism. Oh,
Speaker 1: good question, because it's true. I found, even on Okay
Speaker 1: Asians where I was feeling pretty level and pretty up,
Speaker 1: I just enjoyed kind of drawing from a place of
Speaker 1: heartbreak and a place of sadness, and it's it's there's
Speaker 1: something that seems to sort of feel like it means
Speaker 1: so much in a songwriting environment, in a songwriting capacity,
Speaker 1: when you draw from that stuff. So this has been
Speaker 1: a sort of surprise to me. I made all this music,
Speaker 1: and I only realized after when the lockdown thing began
Speaker 1: and I had this this suddenly natural moment to listen
Speaker 1: back that I've drawn from this kind of positive place.
Speaker 1: It was quite a private place as well. I've been
Speaker 1: with my girlfriend for thirteen years. We were kids really
Speaker 1: when we sort of got together. We were definitely friends
Speaker 1: beforehand from the same small town. We've been through it all,
Speaker 1: through thick and thin, through the absolute roller coaster that
Speaker 1: that life is for anybody. But life has certainly been
Speaker 1: for me and for us through you know, the meeting
Speaker 1: record labels and touring the world and all of that stuff.
Speaker 1: And she's she's the rock, you know, I know it's
Speaker 1: She's not Dayne Johnson. She's my rock. Imagine she's U
Speaker 1: and I and I found myself paying tribute to that,
Speaker 1: and I didn't. I'd never I can say. It's a
Speaker 1: private part of my life, so I've always been careful
Speaker 1: with it, but it couldn't help itself, and it came
Speaker 1: out through songs and I'm I'm in love with the music.
Speaker 1: So I'm really kind of pleased I did it, even
Speaker 1: though I sort of almost told myself, without ever telling
Speaker 1: myself in the past, that I wouldn't, you know, just
Speaker 1: for the sake of maintaining a bit of privacy. But stuff,
Speaker 1: when it's got to come out, it gets out. And
Speaker 1: that has to be tough. I mean, you you've decided
Speaker 1: to be this public figure, and I imagine your girlfriend
Speaker 1: Lucy did not, and so is that is that difficult
Speaker 1: to balance that yes and no, you're you're absolutely right,
Speaker 1: I signed up for all of this, and you're absolutely
Speaker 1: right she didn't. But as long as you were well
Speaker 1: aware of that, and I think that as long as
Speaker 1: we communicate that to each other and we're constantly and
Speaker 1: it's constantly kind of a conversation, then it becomes normal
Speaker 1: and un kay that I signed up for it and
Speaker 1: she didn't, and it's and it's and it's a much
Speaker 1: deeper understanding is had of that. It can be a
Speaker 1: strange one to navigate. It can be a difficult one
Speaker 1: to navigate. It's never completely straightforward. It's sometimes easier than
Speaker 1: other times and sometimes harder. But I guess it's testament
Speaker 1: to how chinned into each other we are, and how
Speaker 1: we are one thing. You know, we are a unit,
Speaker 1: and it's testament to all of that that I'm able
Speaker 1: to at this point sort of let it into my work,
Speaker 1: because that's a real crossing of wires in many respects
Speaker 1: as well, but let it into my work in this way.
Speaker 1: It's never that's also never a kind of clean cut
Speaker 1: thing work in life. When you do what I do,
Speaker 1: they blend, whether you want them to or not. And
Speaker 1: she also played, I've heard a big role in your
Speaker 1: own musical history. She encouraged you, right, yeah, if you're
Speaker 1: that massively. I mean to the extent that we met
Speaker 1: in this small town that we're both from, and I
Speaker 1: was playing in some bands, and like I was always
Speaker 1: in a band with my brother, and then another very
Speaker 1: very close friend of mine, Tom, who is essentially a brother.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're not blood related, but we might as
Speaker 1: well be. And he still plays bas in my band today,
Speaker 1: and we've known each other since we're about three years old.
Speaker 1: It was a small town, tight knit sort of atmosphere,
Speaker 1: and we were playing and we all met when we
Speaker 1: were teenagers, and Lucy was excited to go and see
Speaker 1: bands in town like and and and sort of followed
Speaker 1: local music, and so one way or another we all
Speaker 1: became friends. And she always thought it was cool in
Speaker 1: that respect. But there was a moment where I suppose
Speaker 1: there's a moment where because this is at the time
Speaker 1: when school was still a big real thing for everybody,
Speaker 1: and what's happening with that, and is someone going to
Speaker 1: get a job? Are you gonna, you know, how are
Speaker 1: we gonna There's that moment when you're a teenager, when
Speaker 1: your parents aren't giving you kind of an allowance or
Speaker 1: anything anymore. And it's all about like, well, there's a
Speaker 1: supermarket that's employing people, and it becomes all of that.
Speaker 1: And as we moved through those years, I was always
Speaker 1: most hungry to hold onto playing music one way or another.
Speaker 1: What I'm trying to say is Lucy essentially got serious
Speaker 1: about it before I did. As far as me me
Speaker 1: wanting to kind of she she would say to me,
Speaker 1: would be sat in on a sort of week night
Speaker 1: watching TV and maybe like watching a gig or something
Speaker 1: on TV, or see some music thing. Once again, I'd say, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I really wanted to be me one day
Speaker 1: so inspired and I could do that, And she would
Speaker 1: kind of turn to me and go, okay, well, there
Speaker 1: are a couple of pubs in town that have an
Speaker 1: open mic night happening right now. Why are you sitting
Speaker 1: on the couch. You know, if you're really serious, surely
Speaker 1: you should. And it was never it was always encouragement.
Speaker 1: It was never like a negative thing. It was always like,
Speaker 1: you know, if you're serious about it makes some moves,
Speaker 1: go and go and do it. And that I mean,
Speaker 1: that's priceless, priceless sort of moment in my life. Really,
Speaker 1: at what point did you go from being somebody who
Speaker 1: loved music and a fan of music to actually writing
Speaker 1: it and making it yourself. Was there a decisive moment
Speaker 1: or just sort of gradually happen. It gradually happened, but
Speaker 1: in a way, there was a decisive moment as soon
Speaker 1: as I picked up an instrument that I didn't just
Speaker 1: want to learn other people's stuff. Boy, is it vital
Speaker 1: that you're learning other people's stuff and working out how
Speaker 1: things are done and sort of opening your mind to
Speaker 1: how you could do things yourself. But life has said
Speaker 1: about me and Tom and my brother Alex, like when
Speaker 1: we were little kids, well, when we were very young
Speaker 1: teenagers and just starting out going from listening to music
Speaker 1: our whole lives to start to try to play instruments.
Speaker 1: There was also other kids in town do the same thing.
Speaker 1: As you can imagine, every generation has loads and loads
Speaker 1: of kids trying it out. We were really one of
Speaker 1: the only bunches of kids who were interested in original material.
Speaker 1: We were willing and I didn't even realize at the time.
Speaker 1: I only recognize in hindsight it's it's of course we
Speaker 1: have this kind of blind sort of confidence and faith
Speaker 1: in ourselves that if we turned up with something original,
Speaker 1: it was already awesome because it was original, you know.
Speaker 1: And I'm sort of so glad that nobody ever really
Speaker 1: got to us and said, you know it kind of
Speaker 1: it's not It's like it's like barely five out of ten,
Speaker 1: but good for you for trying. We believed it was great.
Speaker 1: Everybody else was own lead. They could only handle doing
Speaker 1: covers because they thought it was safer for playing songs
Speaker 1: that people know, and there's something really wise about that. We,
Speaker 1: I guess weren't so wise. So you know, we did covers,
Speaker 1: and we really enjoyed playing covers to people, and obviously
Speaker 1: the reaction was always amazing, whether we were in a
Speaker 1: bar or a pub or whatever. But it was from
Speaker 1: moment one that I and my brother in all this,
Speaker 1: we were willing to just make stuff up and call
Speaker 1: those our songs and then rehearse them and go and
Speaker 1: play them. There was no there was sentially no worry
Speaker 1: about that we were. We sort of thought, well, if
Speaker 1: if we want to be the Rolling Stones, that's what
Speaker 1: they did, so they've got to do it too. Now
Speaker 1: your your most recent album, as he said, it's filled
Speaker 1: with uptimism. I assume that this was done prior this
Speaker 1: was Have you been working on the album in lockdown
Speaker 1: or is it completely done and ready to roll before
Speaker 1: before all this went down. The only stuff that we're
Speaker 1: doing in having to do in lockdown is is mixing.
Speaker 1: Usually i'd be in the company of the person mixing
Speaker 1: and and sort of putting my two cents in helping out.
Speaker 1: But um, I can't do that, can't travel in that capacity.
Speaker 1: So I started writing this album towards the beginning to
Speaker 1: the middle of tens springtime. I think it's when I'd
Speaker 1: say I really sort of starting to get my head
Speaker 1: down and think about it and write for a third record.
Speaker 1: But um, so I was doing that all through the
Speaker 1: rest of and from the very beginning of and really
Speaker 1: right up until the last week. There was suddenly like
Speaker 1: there was a there was a few conversations went on,
Speaker 1: and I was I was made aware that this brilliant man,
Speaker 1: Um Dave Cobb, who's a great producer in in in
Speaker 1: Nashville in America, UM was keen to work together and
Speaker 1: there was a window of time. Essentially, I thought, well,
Speaker 1: let's just go for it. I feel great about the songs.
Speaker 1: He'd heard some of the songs and felt great Aboutum,
Speaker 1: let's just give it a shot and see what happens.
Speaker 1: There's always a little sort of element of kind of
Speaker 1: throw caution to the wind, sort of gamble a little
Speaker 1: bit and just try. Um So, yeah, I really rolled
Speaker 1: from writing right into Nashville and recording. Spent about five
Speaker 1: weeks doing that there, and we got everything done, even
Speaker 1: though for the last couple of weeks the atmosphere in
Speaker 1: the well in the world changed, and we felt it
Speaker 1: even in our bubble in the studio. Um So, it's
Speaker 1: it was all written very much before all this lockdown stuff.
Speaker 1: But it's been interesting the ways in which it feels
Speaker 1: like it resonates with the current times as I listened
Speaker 1: to the songs now in this global context. What was
Speaker 1: it like working with Deve carb I know it sounds
Speaker 1: like he had to do a lot of tracking live
Speaker 1: and do a lot of full takes live. What was
Speaker 1: that like? Was that like all right, lights on, gotta
Speaker 1: hit it right? It really was like that, I think so,
Speaker 1: And it's I really am so grateful that I worked
Speaker 1: with him for particularly for those reasons. Um Davis willing
Speaker 1: to you know, speaking of almost sort of blind faith
Speaker 1: and being willing to kind of go with your gut. Um.
Speaker 1: Dave's extremely experienced and well versed, but he still sort
Speaker 1: of wholeheartedly believes you just gotta play, and you play
Speaker 1: to that feels right, and you don't labor it. You don't.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can do fifteen takes, you can do
Speaker 1: twenty five takes and do fifty takes, and there's nothing
Speaker 1: wrong with that. That's absolutely fine. Whoever you are, whatever
Speaker 1: you want to do, it's it's just as valid. But
Speaker 1: I love Dave's spirit is we've probably got it and
Speaker 1: takes two to four, but we'll do five or six
Speaker 1: just to feel okay, but then we're moving on and
Speaker 1: like that. So that was something I was really drawn to.
Speaker 1: Um and And and he obviously he goes and finds
Speaker 1: fantastic musicians. Um and I let him very much in
Speaker 1: producer capacity obviously do all that stuff as well. Assemblar
Speaker 1: Band um the big one from a pop perspective, Whoever
Speaker 1: you are, whatever you're doing, whatever your music is, if
Speaker 1: if it's if it's in one way or another pot
Speaker 1: you will record to a click track and there's people
Speaker 1: out there listening who may not know what that is,
Speaker 1: and there's people who who will. It just means that
Speaker 1: you are a dedicated tempo that doesn't shift. Usually when
Speaker 1: you play and you get to the chorus and the
Speaker 1: music and the momentum are driving things, you'll probably speed
Speaker 1: up a little bit when you get to the chorus,
Speaker 1: not too noticeable. But these days people play only to
Speaker 1: a click so that the tempo doesn't shift and you're
Speaker 1: locked in. There is something wonderful, and Dave is a
Speaker 1: massive advocate for this. There is something wonderful and that
Speaker 1: has so much spirit about not playing to a click.
Speaker 1: Let the atmosphere lead and drive you. Let the spirit
Speaker 1: of a song, of a chorus um, you know, make
Speaker 1: you put your foot on the gas a tony bit more.
Speaker 1: And that was again, that was the sort of I
Speaker 1: was kind of following Dave into that place. It seemed
Speaker 1: like a darkness to me, but he knew it was okay,
Speaker 1: so I followed him and I really enjoyed working with
Speaker 1: him for that as well. I let me tell you, sorry,
Speaker 1: I've gone on about this one, but let me tell
Speaker 1: you this. I went into the experience with Dave in
Speaker 1: Nashville knowing I was so up for that doing it,
Speaker 1: actually doing it, and sitting back and listening to take
Speaker 1: and noticing with my sort of twenty one century pop
Speaker 1: ears that like sometimes it's sped up in the I
Speaker 1: was really uneasy. I haven't even really sort of talked
Speaker 1: to Day about this yet. I was kind of uneasy,
Speaker 1: and I was I was trying to sort of dedicate
Speaker 1: to be followed. And as I listened back today, as
Speaker 1: we're finishing off mixes, and it's the same moments, a
Speaker 1: sort of speeding up or whatever or slowing down, and
Speaker 1: it's all going very much with the flow. I love it.
Speaker 1: It's so it's so human, it's so real, and the
Speaker 1: momentum is so natural and it ebbs and flows so wonderfully.
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm I'm glad I trusted him and followed him.
Speaker 1: You know, he knows what he's doing. He's we've got
Speaker 1: the saw on those things. And speaking of saw, you're
Speaker 1: in our c A studio A what was it tell
Speaker 1: me about that? I'm a huge music history both that
Speaker 1: what was that feeling like? So, for one, you're standing
Speaker 1: in a building that is about a meter and a
Speaker 1: half away from another building. That building is our CIA
Speaker 1: studio B that place. Google that for a for a
Speaker 1: list of a historic list of Elvis Presley bangers, Like
Speaker 1: that's where Studio B is where all that stuff went down,
Speaker 1: and you could it's a bit of a museum these days,
Speaker 1: but you can go in there, and I think it's
Speaker 1: still used and it was very cool. We got a
Speaker 1: moment or two to step in there and so see
Speaker 1: what was going on. But Studio A, which gave me
Speaker 1: slightly gave me the sort of Abbey Roads Studio two fields,
Speaker 1: because it's this beautiful big room, one big open space.
Speaker 1: There's a control room slightly separate, um, and there's this
Speaker 1: like big lovely staircase in the room, so you can
Speaker 1: sort of do all sorts of things with sort of
Speaker 1: microphone height. UM. Nowadays people take their laptop to any
Speaker 1: room on the planet. They open it up, they've got
Speaker 1: pro tools, they've got logic, they record and they can
Speaker 1: get exactly the same sounds wherever the other plugins. And
Speaker 1: right back then we didn't they didn't have that. So
Speaker 1: the chat actings decided to build the same room, the
Speaker 1: spec being exactly the same around the world, like it
Speaker 1: was there like seven or eight of them. I think
Speaker 1: it was like four or five in America, three or
Speaker 1: four in the in in Europe. Um, this is the
Speaker 1: only one left. The one in Nashville is the only
Speaker 1: one left. All of the rest of them are knocked down.
Speaker 1: But I remember when we went in at the very beginning,
Speaker 1: and I was just hanging out with Day for an afternoon,
Speaker 1: being in the space, talking about plans and stuff, and
Speaker 1: he told me a little about the history and he said, yeah,
Speaker 1: they've made all sorts of music in here. He said,
Speaker 1: probably about where you're standing. Sometime in the sort of
Speaker 1: late seventies, Dolly Parton was standing there and in the
Speaker 1: same three hours she sang down, I Will Always love
Speaker 1: you and Julian no pressure, no pressure. I was like, sure,
Speaker 1: no pressure. That's just the rest of her life completely made. Um.
Speaker 1: So they made so much brilliant I mean, I'm just
Speaker 1: more recently. I'm sure you've heard this one. But there's
Speaker 1: a fantastic record called by the Way I Forgive You
Speaker 1: by Brandy Carlyle that Dave Da've made. That it won
Speaker 1: all sorts of Grammys, and it's a beautiful piece of music,
Speaker 1: collection of music, and that was made in that room
Speaker 1: as well. So loads of great stuff been made in
Speaker 1: the one of an incredible place. Crazy You've you've talked about.
Speaker 1: There's a great video on YouTube of you talking about
Speaker 1: Eric Clapton's Laila being a huge influence on you as
Speaker 1: as a as a young student of music who is
Speaker 1: mother class A grad guy guns that really really inspired
Speaker 1: you when you were younger. There's lots There's lots and
Speaker 1: lots m from just this sort of guitar player perspective.
Speaker 1: It was Eric Clapton, it was Stevie oy Vaughan, it
Speaker 1: was Robbie Robertson in the band massively, The Rolling Stones
Speaker 1: were huge for me. Later in my life, into my teens,
Speaker 1: into my late teens, I finally came around to the Beatles,
Speaker 1: but of course when we all start out, it's one
Speaker 1: or the other Beatles of Stones. Well, yeah, my dad
Speaker 1: was like, super duper a Stones guy, So I got
Speaker 1: to I got that way way faster. Bruce Springsteen all
Speaker 1: day long, like I love Bruce Bringsteen's music. And then
Speaker 1: and then it's it's I suppose as that's classic rock,
Speaker 1: but just from the same era. It's all the soul.
Speaker 1: It's it's every Aretha Franklin record, it's every Ray Charles record.
Speaker 1: You know, all of that stuff. I just since I
Speaker 1: was like fifteen years old, I just did all I've
Speaker 1: listened to and to the extent that like, I go
Speaker 1: to that stuff in honesty more than a lot of
Speaker 1: the music that's been released in sort of my uh
Speaker 1: well in the twenty one century. But you know, there's
Speaker 1: obviously loads of phenomenal music from Kings of ly On
Speaker 1: to Adele. It's all inspired by some of that great
Speaker 1: older stuff, and it's all very much for and from
Speaker 1: the present day. So it mixes and it changes. You know,
Speaker 1: it's good. It's what have you been listening to during lockdown?
Speaker 1: Because I don't know about you, but I've been listening
Speaker 1: to things that I haven't listened to since I was
Speaker 1: in high school, since that was a teenager. It's like,
Speaker 1: I want something familiar. Have you been feeling that way?
Speaker 1: I I one of the things one of the things
Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed. This is a little bit more for
Speaker 1: for us folks over here, but I think people in
Speaker 1: America know a little bit about an artist called Paler,
Speaker 1: new teen Scottish guy. Oh my goodness, Like that was
Speaker 1: real big music for me when I was like thirteen, fourteen,
Speaker 1: I mean, he that's the first show I ever saw
Speaker 1: in a big, proper venue was his show in two
Speaker 1: thousand and five. I think, um, I've been loving, loving,
Speaker 1: loving him's new album. It's their third album. The guitar
Speaker 1: sounds on that are everything. I mean, the songs are
Speaker 1: fantastic and the performances in the production and there's is
Speaker 1: such a great team of people. But just as a
Speaker 1: guitar geat, the guitar sounds amazing. Um. I there's also
Speaker 1: a great artist called Phoebe Bridges. Oh yeah, I love
Speaker 1: Phoebe Bridges music. She's brilliant. A big fan of her.
Speaker 1: So all sorts of different things. I'm always going back
Speaker 1: to um again, it's some older stuff, like I'll always
Speaker 1: go back to All Things must Pass is a great
Speaker 1: George Harrison record, game changer, and obviously on Friday this
Speaker 1: is super fresh. But on Friday, Taylor Swift put a
Speaker 1: new music out and like I gave it a couple
Speaker 1: of rounds, you know, in sort of peripherally, kind of
Speaker 1: had it on the side of the room and like
Speaker 1: it was cool. But I just was driving around earlier
Speaker 1: this morning, and that's something that Cardigan song, Oh that's
Speaker 1: serious stuff. There's a chorus in there that is forever.
Speaker 1: It's It's for the It's for the ages. So that
Speaker 1: hit me. That finally hit me this morning, sort of
Speaker 1: four days after it came out. A big fan of
Speaker 1: that incredible album. Have you been feeling productive musically during lockdown?
Speaker 1: Have you been writing? All right? Let me tell you so. Yes,
Speaker 1: it is the answer, And I'm all about sort of
Speaker 1: pushing forward in that capacity. But I humbly right on
Speaker 1: a guitar or maybe a piano um and use my
Speaker 1: sort of phones kind of voice notes app. That's all
Speaker 1: I got. I don't know how to use pro tools.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to use logic. I've just don't.
Speaker 1: I wish I could, and I love the people that can,
Speaker 1: and they're amazing, but I'm just I haven't got this
Speaker 1: sort of patience or the or the brain for some
Speaker 1: of that degree of technology until I found it. And
Speaker 1: this sounds like such a massive plug. But this is
Speaker 1: thing called the Spire by Isotope. It's like an eight
Speaker 1: track recorder and you sort of control it with an app.
Speaker 1: You don't have to do You control it with an
Speaker 1: app on your phone, and it's limited and I love it.
Speaker 1: For that, and you can it records like you know,
Speaker 1: their proper sound way. It sounds like files like it's
Speaker 1: only eight tracks, but you can. You can finish it
Speaker 1: up and do a little mix of it yourself, um
Speaker 1: and send it off to someone who's got pro tools
Speaker 1: or logic and they can do all sorts of things
Speaker 1: with it. They can take the files and like totally
Speaker 1: sort of use them and like make them into a
Speaker 1: proper record. But I've really enjoyed as far as writing
Speaker 1: in lockdown, I've been able to sort of makes slightly
Speaker 1: fancier but still very homemade demos using this thing. And
Speaker 1: because I had an eight track when I was a
Speaker 1: teenager my brother, and this is my new version of that,
Speaker 1: and I love it. I used superstitious at all. When
Speaker 1: you ride, is there like an instrument you always use,
Speaker 1: or a place in your house you always ride, or
Speaker 1: a time of day or is it just whenever? Good question.
Speaker 1: I'm only superstitious as far as this isn't a superstition.
Speaker 1: I just really I always trying to do something else
Speaker 1: because as an instrumentalist, you know when you play an instrument,
Speaker 1: is what I'm trying to say, And the better you
Speaker 1: get at it. You get into ruts like you always
Speaker 1: pick it up. You always pick up a guitar and
Speaker 1: do something and eat or do something in g you know,
Speaker 1: on a piano you might jump on and always do
Speaker 1: something and see. And so I'm always trying. It's not
Speaker 1: so much a superstition. I just always try if I
Speaker 1: can to. It's hard when you're so familiar on an
Speaker 1: instrument to sort of step out of, you know, a habit.
Speaker 1: And then the other thing is like, I'm not very
Speaker 1: good at beginning anything or even committing to beginning anything
Speaker 1: in earshot of anyone else. I I sort of need
Speaker 1: to be. I mean, I co write, and I do
Speaker 1: do it in that capacity, but there's sort of an unwritten,
Speaker 1: unspoken law that is we're both in the same vulnerable,
Speaker 1: fragile place of like anything could be anything, but generally
Speaker 1: I like to be very sort of solitary and solo
Speaker 1: when I'm dipping my toe into the pool, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't. I like to be as
Speaker 1: sort of in the furthest corner of the house if
Speaker 1: I can, I was gonna say, yeah, you worked with
Speaker 1: Ryan Terror, Julia Michael As, you worked with some incredible songories.
Speaker 1: Tell me about working with Brandon Flowers. I mean, where
Speaker 1: do we start? Brandon? You know, he's I'm sort of
Speaker 1: I look at him as like a young legend. He's
Speaker 1: kind of a he's already legend status. He's already sort
Speaker 1: of icon status, you know, in the way that I
Speaker 1: look up to and people twenty thirty years older than
Speaker 1: me look up to Bruce Springsteen, for example. Brandon is
Speaker 1: like a sort of new age one of those to
Speaker 1: me and I think to so many people. It was
Speaker 1: pleasure to get to write with him, and we had
Speaker 1: that gender going in that was nice. You know. It
Speaker 1: wasn't hey, are we're writing for you? We write for me?
Speaker 1: It was kind of less right and see who it fits. Um,
Speaker 1: it felt like it was for me coming away. In truth,
Speaker 1: we ended up building off a verse idea that I
Speaker 1: had that I guess he thought was very much mine.
Speaker 1: I suppose lyrically it was kind of mine. Um, so
Speaker 1: he was okay with that, and it was just it's tough,
Speaker 1: you know, because when you're when you're writing with someone,
Speaker 1: you are equals. Everyone's equal in the room, and everyone's
Speaker 1: got to throw as much as they can at the wall.
Speaker 1: See what sticks. But sometimes I catch are such just
Speaker 1: watch aga and throw stuff at the wall and that
Speaker 1: in that sort of hypothetic, pothetical way, because it's so
Speaker 1: cool to see that to me, slightly sort of legendary process.
Speaker 1: You know, he's done that for so many massive songs now,
Speaker 1: and he's co written and he's not kind of written.
Speaker 1: You know, it's very it doesn't matter. He's written all
Speaker 1: sorts of brilliant music. So it was inspiring, enormously inspiring. Um,
Speaker 1: slightly overwhelming initially, but he was great. You know, he's
Speaker 1: a great guy, very very very accommodating, but very dedicated
Speaker 1: to the craft. So there's so much to learn. Whilst
Speaker 1: like in flight, you know, your sort of hands on
Speaker 1: the thing, but like you've gotta keep checking over your
Speaker 1: shoulders to see how it's down. At the same time,
Speaker 1: because he really knows will this be on your your
Speaker 1: upcoming third album or still figuring that out. I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I know it applies. I know this
Speaker 1: song applies to me and too, and and I do
Speaker 1: hope will be released. And there's no pressure from sort
Speaker 1: of any anybody in any other corner of the room. Um,
Speaker 1: but I guess I worked my mind works in a
Speaker 1: sort of these songs are a thing together. They should
Speaker 1: go out together, and I'm not sure that one fits
Speaker 1: in there, but but it applies somewhere, one wear another.
Speaker 1: It will be heard with the latest with your Europe
Speaker 1: coming up, do you have released window for that schedule yet?
Speaker 1: No release date, no release date beyond the plan. So, um,
Speaker 1: that's that's exciting. But we were you know, the first
Speaker 1: thing has just come out. There will be another and
Speaker 1: then yeah, there's no there's no sort of plan beyond that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think that's you know, as much to do
Speaker 1: with we we still music currently lives in a world
Speaker 1: where we're waiting to see how things open up again unfold,
Speaker 1: you know again. Um, and how so no one wants
Speaker 1: to go racing forward, but no one wants to come
Speaker 1: lagging behind and have not sort of done anything. So
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a bit touch and go. But but hey,
Speaker 1: we live in a world where music can get put
Speaker 1: out still, so I'm doing as much as that as
Speaker 1: I can, and there will be in our something Obviously
Speaker 1: you can't be on the road right now, but you've
Speaker 1: been connecting with fans in this really cool way you've
Speaker 1: been giving guitar lessons on Instagram. Let's put in the response.
Speaker 1: But like for that, that's so cool. Um, it's been
Speaker 1: very cool to do that. And I wasn't like mr
Speaker 1: social media before lockdown. I wasn't like a regular regular
Speaker 1: Instagram liver uh. And there was just a big whole
Speaker 1: formed when lockdown began, where interaction almost sort of dropped
Speaker 1: to zero. So you kind of I very much went,
Speaker 1: how can I? You know, can I? How can I?
Speaker 1: It's social media is a big old echo chamber as well,
Speaker 1: where you know, not to criticize exactly, but you know,
Speaker 1: one person says something um sort of striking or alarming
Speaker 1: or or even just um provocative, and then the whole
Speaker 1: place goes nuts. And I I just wanted to come
Speaker 1: in a little more sort of um, unarmed and a
Speaker 1: bit more kind of like chill. Not a lot of
Speaker 1: chill on social media. There's not a lot of chill,
Speaker 1: you know, for better and for worse, Like there's not
Speaker 1: a lot. But I wanted to. I'm an entertainer. I
Speaker 1: jump up on stage. I'm a bit of a storyteller.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's kind of what all I really can do
Speaker 1: and play music and play instruments. So I thought, can
Speaker 1: I apply that version of myself in any way? Because
Speaker 1: I'm a social media is a place for me regarding me.
Speaker 1: Social media is a place with my fans, um. So
Speaker 1: I sort of I asked the question can I give
Speaker 1: them anything? And I talked guitar when I was eighteen
Speaker 1: years old for about a year. So I thought, maybe
Speaker 1: I can sort of break down in a guitar teacher capacity,
Speaker 1: how I play my songs, you know, how how I
Speaker 1: played them when I wrote them, how I played them live,
Speaker 1: how I played them, and I played them just solo acoustic.
Speaker 1: So I started doing that. I start doing these live
Speaker 1: lessons every day at five pm sort of London time.
Speaker 1: People seem to really enjoy them. We've done like twenty
Speaker 1: four at this point um in like three months. So
Speaker 1: it's been cool to sort of interact and connect with everybody.
Speaker 1: And it's become as as as kind of legit a
Speaker 1: lesson as it's supposed to be. It's become a bit
Speaker 1: of a hang and it's nice that it exists between
Speaker 1: those two things. You know, do you still have your
Speaker 1: first guitar? I do. My parents is at their house.
Speaker 1: I don't actually have it with me in honesty, and
Speaker 1: it's fine. It's not like I don't like it. It's
Speaker 1: just I got a few more and yeah and yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I can't have them all in the
Speaker 1: same place because I don't have enough room. What's what's
Speaker 1: your main one now? Is it the epiphone century the century? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I still it's still kind of the main one. In honesty,
Speaker 1: I have a few different things, kicking around and playing
Speaker 1: a lot. I have a Gibson j fifty fifty that
Speaker 1: I've had for a long time now that I play
Speaker 1: a lot. It's not too long of a story, but
Speaker 1: Dave Cobb has so many fantastic guitars, as you can imagine,
Speaker 1: he's just every guitarist just dreaming, and I gravitated towards
Speaker 1: many of them. When I got to the studio, there
Speaker 1: was a Fender Jag that just looked great, so I
Speaker 1: picked it up and it felt great, and we were
Speaker 1: doing a song. I've got a great first take. I
Speaker 1: think the intention from my perspective is to do a
Speaker 1: few takes. But after I kind of played the guitar
Speaker 1: before we did the take, I plut me and Dave
Speaker 1: st literally to like set guitar sounds good. And then
Speaker 1: we did the take and we finished it. The first
Speaker 1: take we finished it, everybody stopped and I looked at
Speaker 1: Dave like that sounded pretty like the guitar sounds great
Speaker 1: and that tape was pretty killer, and he just got
Speaker 1: up and walked over to it and he shook my hand.
Speaker 1: He said, that was the one in congratulations. That thing's yours.
Speaker 1: It's a three some birst Fender Jay and he just
Speaker 1: gave it to me. So that is currently at my
Speaker 1: house and I'm playing it a lot. Oh yeah, good,
Speaker 1: it's a beauty. It's a beauty's that's incredible. My last
Speaker 1: question of the the early days of your your learning
Speaker 1: I play guitar. What was the first song you learned
Speaker 1: how to play? Do you remember the first one? I
Speaker 1: really sort of sat down and got my fingers around
Speaker 1: and learned was there was a few different things. There's
Speaker 1: a few different kind of basic riffs, like basic twelve
Speaker 1: bar rock and roll sort of riffs. And then it
Speaker 1: was later, Oh yeah, let it was Eric Classon's later
Speaker 1: and I did that. I'm not I didn't nail it
Speaker 1: first time. I'm not like he checked me out. Later
Speaker 1: was the first thing I was able to play like
Speaker 1: that's overdo right. Yeah, I was never as you also,
Speaker 1: but that was the first one I really sort of
Speaker 1: sat down and worked out, um, you know, following tabs
Speaker 1: and watching videos and listening um later. Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: a not a bad first one, not a bad first
Speaker 1: one at all. I love that one. I mean, like
Speaker 1: I say, like, it wasn't the first thing. I don't
Speaker 1: want to sort of sound like some sort of I
Speaker 1: learned how to do a few other things that weren't
Speaker 1: like classic riffs, but the first classic rifference was that one.
Speaker 1: For me. You've been active in the the Save our
Speaker 1: Venues campaign, which I think it's so important. I want
Speaker 1: to ask you a little about that. What that campaign
Speaker 1: means to you and how it's going. It means as
Speaker 1: much to me as my my sort of my arms
Speaker 1: and legs mean to me. Um, Like, I have to
Speaker 1: have it. I have to have, well, the campaign I
Speaker 1: have to have because I have to have live shows.
Speaker 1: You know, I can't. There's there's really no artist that
Speaker 1: can fully exist without it's there. It's it's a vital
Speaker 1: part of being a touring and recording artist, particularly a
Speaker 1: touring artist, you know, to be to try and be
Speaker 1: the whole nine yards. And I say that because these days,
Speaker 1: particularly sort of since I don't know thousand five ten,
Speaker 1: the kind of online overnight success kind of artists became
Speaker 1: a reality, and there's lots of different versions of sort
Speaker 1: of what that is. But you know, broadly speaking, you
Speaker 1: can arrive in front of the world via say YouTube
Speaker 1: or something like that, but a couple of videos of
Speaker 1: you doing a nice song, be original or a cover,
Speaker 1: and things can really kick off for for young debut artists.
Speaker 1: But you need at some point if you want to,
Speaker 1: like I say, kind of go the whole nine yards
Speaker 1: and really sort of be a full, fully rounded artist.
Speaker 1: The team that you build around you and develop over
Speaker 1: time are going to say, okay, let's get you in
Speaker 1: a space in front of some people, on a stage,
Speaker 1: during the corner of a bar whatever. It can be
Speaker 1: low key, but it's about that live atmosphere, those vibrations,
Speaker 1: that scenario that's very different to streaming yourself through YouTube
Speaker 1: or whatever via a webcam, and you and you need it,
Speaker 1: you we all need it. For me, it was less
Speaker 1: about that, even though my journey very much involved a
Speaker 1: moment where a record label saw a video of me
Speaker 1: on YouTube. It was a video of me on YouTube
Speaker 1: playing in a bar to a few people. There's sort
Speaker 1: of a half empty bar, the whole slightly slightly depressing,
Speaker 1: slightly exciting atmosphere that is depicted in those things. I mean,
Speaker 1: like in real life much in YouTube videos is important.
Speaker 1: You know, if you can stay afloat in a bar
Speaker 1: for the people who are half for the people who
Speaker 1: aren't interested, you've really learned something. You make some strides.
Speaker 1: So the act of live performance is vital to me
Speaker 1: and to all artists. And it's not about getting on
Speaker 1: a stage in an empty room. It's about having people
Speaker 1: in that room with you and sharing that experience in
Speaker 1: the moment. There's nothing like it then there never will be.
Speaker 1: And I was lucky. Recently we took a baby step
Speaker 1: from Lockdown two. I got to go into a venue,
Speaker 1: an empty venue, and stream broadcast myself doing show to
Speaker 1: as many people as wanted to watch. It was free,
Speaker 1: but there was a donate button on the screen and
Speaker 1: they could watch me play songs to them, but from
Speaker 1: this completely empty venue, on a stage with proper lights
Speaker 1: and everything, and they could if they wanted to donate
Speaker 1: to the Save Our venues campaign. We raised like on
Speaker 1: the night we raised just over four thousand pounds, but
Speaker 1: it's still going up so um. You know, every little
Speaker 1: helps and it was nice to do it. It's nice
Speaker 1: to be in a real venue. It just sucked that
Speaker 1: there was no one in there. It must have felt
Speaker 1: good at least being back. Yeah, I mean this whole time,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be hard for so many different ways of me,
Speaker 1: especially for a touring musician who wants to get back
Speaker 1: out there. But has there been any kind of a
Speaker 1: silver lining of this period for you at all? I
Speaker 1: mean in the UK? I mean, and it's the government
Speaker 1: in the UK said stadiums will be full in October.
Speaker 1: We were like, okay, tell us more. They were like no,
Speaker 1: I can't tell you more. Interesting. They're like, okay, what
Speaker 1: do you What do you mean then? And what they
Speaker 1: really mean is that's what they're gunning for, that's what
Speaker 1: they're going for, that's what they're raising, that's what they're
Speaker 1: working towards. Um, and everything has to go right between
Speaker 1: now and then. Uh silver linings you know again, like
Speaker 1: the next best one after that is really that you know,
Speaker 1: agents and promoters are looking at spring te quite realistically,
Speaker 1: as as as long as progress goes at the rate
Speaker 1: that has been happening at, you know until then. Um,
Speaker 1: otherwise it's tough, you know, because you put more and
Speaker 1: more people in spaces right next to each other together,
Speaker 1: breathing on each other, singing at the top of their lungs, etcetera, etcetera.
Speaker 1: You know, we can sort of get into the science
Speaker 1: of it, but neither of us, our scientists, it gets
Speaker 1: it gets Corona difficult eventually, you know. So there's only
Speaker 1: been so much progress, but of course, behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: way far away from this conversation, there is sort of
Speaker 1: scientific progress going on, and we're very hopeful that that
Speaker 1: brings us like gigs sooner and sooner. Thinks ross my
Speaker 1: last question, and that's how I always end these episodes,
Speaker 1: and so curious to hear what you have to say.
Speaker 1: If you could stap your fingers and have lockdown, beyond
Speaker 1: virus has done, everything is completely back to the way
Speaker 1: it was. What's the first thing you would do? Trips?
Speaker 1: You want to take people you want to hug. It's
Speaker 1: a good question because you know, you know people I
Speaker 1: want to hug into it. And my answer changes from
Speaker 1: just doing a live show to like, oh yeah, there's
Speaker 1: some people I probably should hug and I want to hug.
Speaker 1: It's not even a specific place, it's just all my
Speaker 1: loved ones. I go to somewhere with them where, like
Speaker 1: all the eternity before coronavirus, we didn't have to think
Speaker 1: twice about leaning on someone's shoulder, throwing an arm around
Speaker 1: the waist, embracing one another, high fiving, you know, dancing together.
Speaker 1: I just just that, and I just I just I
Speaker 1: just don't want to have to. I just go to
Speaker 1: a place where we don't have to think twice about
Speaker 1: any of those things, and take me there. That's just
Speaker 1: where I go. It's it's it's no in particular, it's
Speaker 1: just with all my people. You know everyone has that people.
Speaker 1: It's just with all my people. That's a beautiful answer,
Speaker 1: James back, Thank you so much for your time or day.
Speaker 1: It's been of such a pleasure. Love always, man, Thank
Speaker 1: you for having me. You're the best, sir. We hope
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode of Inside the Studio Home Edition,
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more episodes of
Speaker 1: Inside the Studio and other shows from I Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: check out the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts