1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: We're doing something a little different on NBA DNA this 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: week in revisiting the early days of the Charlotte Hornets. 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,319 Speaker 1: I had a chance to speak with Rex Chapman for 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: our last episode, and his story is so compelling and 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: inspiring that we decided to share it. Here are Kentucky. 6 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: Chapman is one of the greatest players to emerge from 7 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: the basketball crazed state of Kentucky. At Apollo High School 8 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: in Owensboro, Rex was named Mister Basketball, also Gatorade Player 9 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: of the Year, Associated Press Player of the Year, and 10 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: a McDonald's All American. He went on to have two 11 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: remarkable seasons at the University of Kentucky, earning him the 12 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: nickname King Rex, before being selected eighth overall in the 13 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight draft by the expansion Charlotte Hornets. 14 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 2: Might be looking for somebody to give it, don to 15 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 2: give to Chapin night Well slammed up. 16 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 3: That's a great play. 17 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 2: I didn't think that six moore guide. 18 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: Rex would go on to spend twelve years in the 19 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: league playing for the Washington Bullets, Miami Heat, and Phoenix Suns. 20 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: After Charlotte thought. 21 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 2: It comes to chavel almost overthrown javelon shot it. 22 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: Rex's pro basketball career included some spectacular moments, but was 23 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: marked by injury and struggles with depression and anxiety. Later, 24 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: he suffered from a gambling and opioid addiction. In late 25 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, Rex entered rehab and has worked since then 26 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: to rebuild his life, reach out to others, and be 27 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: a resource for the next generation of players. Today, almost 28 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: twenty five years after playing in his final game, Rex 29 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: is best known as a social media star, and he's 30 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: a New York Times best selling author. In February, he 31 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: released It's Hard for Me to Live with Me, a memoir. 32 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: It seems like yesterday that I first met the young 33 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: star with a thousand watt smile that hid those struggles, 34 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: And I'm grateful today to Rex for allowing me to 35 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:44,959 Speaker 1: help share his story of perseverance. It is so good 36 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: to see you, Rack, you too, You too, Gosh. We 37 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: go for people who may not know you, and I 38 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 1: go way, way, way, way way back to your rookie 39 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:57,119 Speaker 1: season and the inaugural season of the Charlotte Hornets. Man, 40 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: do you remember me at the time I met I 41 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: have obviously remember you, but you know you talk to 42 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: a lot of reporters and stuff. Back then, I was 43 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: like a local reporter, weekend anchor. We have a very 44 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: young wretch chat and coming in you pin some hopes 45 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: on a very young Teito whrror for both of. 46 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 3: Them with just well, yeah, So what's weird about that 47 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 3: is that I came there and was the youngest player 48 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,399 Speaker 3: in the league and I felt twelve inside, and everybody 49 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,399 Speaker 3: on the team was much older than I was too, 50 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 3: And so I'm having to go and do these meetings, 51 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 3: you know, like you worked for who at the time. 52 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: I worked for WPCQ Channel thirty six. 53 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm doing all these going around. 54 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 3: I've got this deal and that deal that I'm doing, 55 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 3: you know, endorsements and stuff, and like your station, I 56 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 3: think asked me to come over. I go over to 57 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 3: the station. It's a meeting that you're in. So I'm 58 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 3: nineteen or twenty and I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, 59 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 3: she's really cute thinking about you, And so I thought, though, 60 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: she's not done with college, So how someone my age 61 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 3: have this job? 62 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: Because I was like, you know, maybe I'll ask her 63 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 2: to go out. 64 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 3: And so after a month, I guess I asked someone 65 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 3: who knew how old you were, and they said, she's 66 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 3: twenty five, and I went, she's a woman. That's too old, 67 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 3: and how because you know, you look my age. But 68 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 3: when I found I was so intimidated. I thought, oh, no, 69 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 3: she's not a girl, she's a woman. Like that's off limits. 70 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: That is hilarious. I am so happy to hear that now, 71 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. And of course everybody in Charlotte did 72 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: want to go out with you. You had that nickname 73 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: sexy Rexy. Yeah, what do you remember about that? 74 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 3: It was just very weird, you know, and I was single, 75 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 3: and the Hornets were having me do auctions where I'd 76 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 3: be auctioned off and have to go on a date 77 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 3: with random people in the community, you know, thirty thirty 78 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 3: five year old women. 79 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 2: I'm a child. 80 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 3: I felt like a kid, you know, I'm twenty one, 81 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 3: twenty years old, and they're they're having me do this stuff, 82 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 3: and it just felt really weird. 83 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 2: I felt like an alien. 84 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet, because here you are. You would come 85 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: out of college after your sophomore year, so you you 86 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: hadn't even been to four years of college, right, And. 87 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 2: I didn't get much done while I was there on court. 88 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: You did on Yeah. Yeah, and then you go into 89 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: this situation. It's not like you just went into any 90 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: old team. You went into a crazed situation with this 91 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: new expansion team in North Carolina, which is as you know, 92 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: it's like Kentucky. I mean, people are just insane about 93 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: their basketball. 94 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 2: The Charlotte Hornets select Rex Chapman of Kentucky. 95 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: Coming out of the University of Kentucky after his sophomore 96 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 1: year wrecked chat and then you were the guy. It 97 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: was all veterans, right, that had come there in the 98 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: expansion draft, right, so they were older, some of them 99 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: had kids already. Yeah, you were still a kid. 100 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, but you were the. 101 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: Face of the franchise. 102 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 3: That's a lot, right, Yeah, you know when you say 103 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 3: it like that, Yes, I guess. However, I played at 104 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 3: Kentucky and those crowds very similar to the ones in Charlotte, 105 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 3: and you know, twenty four thousand people in Lexington and 106 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 3: there's nineteen or twenty in Charlotte. But the way they 107 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 3: loved us and you know, we're rabbid, was very much 108 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 3: the same. 109 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: Crowd. 110 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 3: I was fortunate that I was good enough to play 111 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 3: and be a good player that that wasn't my worry. 112 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 2: I didn't have an issue with all of that. It 113 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 2: was just I felt like a kid. 114 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 3: Thank God for Muggsy Bogues and Del Curry, who you 115 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 3: know are still two of my best friends. You know, 116 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 3: Stephan was born my rookie year, so I used to 117 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 3: babysit Steph and all that. Thank goodness for those guys. 118 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 3: You know, Dell taught me how to tie a tie stuff. 119 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 2: Like really, yeah, yeah, I just felt much like a kid. 120 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 3: Tom Tolbert was another rookie, but Tom was two three 121 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: years older than I was. He graduated from U of A. 122 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 3: That was the other thing that was hard was that 123 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 3: that was an era where I mean, most guys were 124 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 3: college graduates and I was not. And I think, I 125 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 3: don't know, I felt inferior kind of a bit. And uh, 126 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 3: you know, unless you were Magic or Isaiah. He didn't 127 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 3: leave school early. 128 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 2: Chapman's guided. 129 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: My magic was around magic underneath reverse. 130 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 3: And I ended up in Charlotte, which was an expansion team, and. 131 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 2: We were terrible. We were bearable. We were bad. 132 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 3: We won nineteen games our first year and maybe twenty 133 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 3: the next, but we won attendance records every year. You know, 134 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 3: they hung the banners for the attendance in Charlotte. 135 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: I talked to A Dell about this and he said, 136 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: you know, at the time, because Cleveland said, we're going 137 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: to keep Craig Elow because we think he can guard 138 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: Michael Jordan better. How ironic is that? You know? They 139 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: let him go right and the host Cleveland in the 140 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: first game, obviously he's injured. I think the Portus lost 141 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: by like forty points. But he said the fact that 142 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 1: the crowd gave a standing ovation afterwards, they're all there 143 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: in tuxes and gowns right that opening night, in some 144 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: ways that that seemed like surreal. 145 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 2: Charlotte pomis it is the largest arena now in the NBA, 146 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 2: three thousands yees. 147 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 3: To be completely honest, at the time, we were a 148 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 3: little embarrassed by it, because you got to remember, we're 149 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 3: going out there and we're playing, and yes, I know 150 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 3: the fans love it and all that. You get judged 151 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 3: by winning and losing in our profession, and so it's 152 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 3: almost like negative feedback because we're going to play, be 153 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 3: in every game for three three and a half quarters 154 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 3: until the other team decides to start playing harder and 155 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 3: gets all the calls and we lose. 156 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 2: Eighty one fifty Doherty against Kempton, but that they loved 157 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 2: it that much. It was kind of confusing, But it 158 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 2: was a little embarrassing, you know, because we felt like 159 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 2: the other teams were like, they're getting ready to get 160 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 2: smacked in front of all these people. 161 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: What do you learn from a situation like that? I mean, 162 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: Delle said, you know, he did learn about losing, you know, 163 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 1: and about surviving that and moving forward. What about you? 164 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 3: No question about it. It's hard being a number one 165 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 3: or number two option scorer. I was really probably a 166 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 3: two or a three at best. But for stretch in Charlotte, 167 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 3: you know, I'm being guarded by Michael and Michael Cooper 168 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 3: and all the lockdown guys, and you find out very 169 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 3: quickly kind of where you are being able to fight 170 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 3: through that. A missed all the losing. I remember Ricky 171 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 3: Green pulled me aside one of our teammates, older teammates, 172 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 3: and I was really down about the losing, and he 173 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 3: pulled me aside and said, hey, Rex Listen Dell might 174 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 3: have been there too, said you two, we're going to 175 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 3: get beat three out of four nights. 176 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 2: That's just the way it is. You guys are going 177 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 2: to play a long time, but you need to get 178 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 2: your shots up. Fifteen shots a game. You guys get 179 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 2: them up no matter what. 180 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 3: And as a pro, you know, you're raised everything as 181 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 3: team and I'm coming from college where like that's not 182 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 3: something that you think about. 183 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 2: And it was really good advice. I wasn't ready to 184 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 2: do that. Really, Dell probably wasn't either. You know. 185 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 3: The other funny part about you said they traded him 186 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 3: because they thought Craig Elo could guard Mychael Jordan better. 187 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 2: Nobody could guard Michael Jordan better. 188 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 3: And when I say that, you know, the Hornets drafted 189 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 3: me to match up with Michael Jordan and stop him 190 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 3: in the East playing for Chicago. If you forward and 191 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 3: see how that went, Michael ended up owning the team 192 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 3: I was playing for. 193 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: He owned him when he played, and then he bought 194 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:23,239 Speaker 1: him leader. 195 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: Jordan on the drive all the way from the time. 196 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, what was it like? I mean, if 197 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: you're drafted with that kind of expectation and playing a 198 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: guy who well, obviously it was just a couple of 199 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: years after you started in the league and they started 200 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: winning their you know, first of their run of six 201 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: championships in eight years. What was it like going up 202 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: against him? 203 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I'd never been on the court, and 204 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 3: I'd played against Michael in the summer after being drafted. 205 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 2: We played together and whatnot, And. 206 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 3: Until that point, I had never really been on the 207 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 3: court with someone that I I kind of had to 208 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 3: admit was better than I was. 209 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 2: Michael makes it look so easy so much of the time, 210 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 2: and I guess. 211 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 3: For him and a his hands are so big, I 212 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 3: mean so big. If a ball comes off the rim 213 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 3: and ten guys are going for it, nine guys are 214 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 3: going for it with two hands as it goes towards 215 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 3: the corner. When you have hands so big that you 216 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 3: can reach out with one hand and grab it and 217 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 3: be gone, you're playing a different game. If he got 218 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 3: two feet in the paint, he's dunking it. He was 219 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 3: just different. And you know, it was fun, fun playing 220 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 3: against him. 221 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,199 Speaker 1: It was fun playing him. So it wasn't frustrating, it 222 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: wasn't intimidating. It was just you love the challenge it 223 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: and you could get him rush Chatman over Jordan for 224 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: three and I got it. 225 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 3: You know, there are times you get him, he gets you. 226 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 3: He got me more than I got him. But I 227 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 3: was hurt a lot, and there were games when I 228 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 3: would miss playing against him. That just drove me insane. 229 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 3: And you got to remember, at the time, he's not 230 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 3: the greatest player in the world. He was on his way, 231 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 3: and at the time when I came in, he couldn't 232 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 3: really shoot yet. So for two or three years I 233 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 3: just backed off of him. Didn't really matter because he 234 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 3: was so crazy athletic and bouncy and quick and competitive. 235 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 3: Once he got where he could shoot, it it was 236 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 3: a rap, you know. And that he got where he 237 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 3: could shoot it is amazing. Shut It's just amazing. I 238 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 3: wasn't a great shooter. I was able to make clutch 239 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 3: shots and I could get my shot off and everything. 240 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 3: But also I'd never shot open shots before. I'd never 241 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 3: had open shots before. I'd always been the best player 242 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 3: on my team. And now Dell's a better shooter than me, 243 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 3: and Kelly Trapuka and Robert Reid and those guys. 244 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 2: Are better shooters. Now I have to start making open shots, 245 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 2: and it was harder. 246 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned Dell current. 247 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 2: Shot. 248 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: He's such a great person and obviously an incredible father, 249 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: and you look what his sons have been able to accomplish. 250 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: He's been rejected by the calves. Essentially, he lands here 251 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: and along you come, this young kid. Yeah, if you 252 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: got to speak to I don't know how he took 253 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: you under his wing or how he mentored you. Yeah, 254 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: because you obviously it was essential that you have somebody 255 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: like that. You were going to survive otherwise. 256 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 2: I wasn't and I was young. All the friends I 257 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 2: knew were still in college. And when I. 258 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 3: Got to Charlotte, I'd never lived a day in my 259 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 3: life without a roommate or been at my parents' house. 260 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 2: So I got there and back. 261 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 3: The first night, I was actually scared to go upstairs 262 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 3: because it was dark upstairs. I was a lottery pick 263 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 3: and I'm going to practice the next day. And I 264 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 3: went down and slept on the cow. I went out 265 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 3: this the next day, got over it that night, thought, Okay, 266 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 3: I'm this is dumb. 267 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 2: I got over it that night. But I was that young. 268 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 3: When I pulled into my subdivision, I hadn't even seen 269 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 3: my apartment. 270 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: Someone said it, uh, there was furniture in there. 271 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 3: And I pulled up and Dell had his He was 272 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 3: standing there like two doors down. He's sonya and Stephan. 273 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 3: She I mean, he was months old and he was hurt. 274 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 3: He'd broken his wrist. 275 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 2: And from that day, like I didn't know how to 276 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 2: do laundry, Sonya did my laundry. They took care of 277 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 2: me and when they wanted to go out on a 278 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 2: date or whatever. I'd watched Stephan. 279 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 3: I couldn't believe I had a friend that had a baby, 280 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 3: you know, and watching him grow up for the first 281 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 3: two or three years was amazing. But you know, to 282 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 3: the point, I think Dell would have had every reason. 283 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 3: He had already played in Utah and Cleveland, and he was, 284 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 3: you know, a mid first round picking low. 285 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 2: For cutters along the baseline, left corner Shot Curry, Yes, 286 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 2: Sir Del Curry, drill. 287 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 3: Now they drafted, you know, a two guard and the 288 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 3: college draft me. And so he helped me so much. 289 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 3: Like he could have been standoffish, they could have been. Honestly, 290 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 3: he's one of my best buddies. But he was like 291 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 3: a father figure to me. And in fact, Muggsy, Dell 292 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 3: and I were eating breakfast in Los Angeles. Dell's dad 293 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 3: was fifty eight years old at the time, and you know, 294 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 3: he came to a lot of our games, and they 295 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 3: talked before every single game, every game. This is like 296 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 3: before cell phones and stuff, right around that time, and 297 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 3: we're with Dell and Los Angeles. We just had shoot around, 298 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 3: I think, and we're in his room and Dell got 299 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 3: a phone call and his. 300 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,119 Speaker 2: Dad had died. Oh he was destroyed. We were destroyed. 301 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 3: And I think us being young and things like those 302 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 3: things happening just sort of bonded us forever. I could 303 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 3: call that dude with anything right now and he would 304 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 3: pick up. He knows he could do the same with me. 305 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 3: He mugsy the same. We weren't very good those teams, 306 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 3: and some of the people on those teams that I 307 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 3: still have relationships with thirty years later, thirty five years later, 308 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 3: I'm so grateful, so thankful they do have a time out, 309 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 3: decide not to use a curry waiting. 310 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 2: A little shit from. 311 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: Curry was a little stuff, a well behaved child. I 312 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: think you're the only person I've talked to besides Dell 313 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: that knewhim when he was a tiny kid. What was 314 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: he like as a little guy. He's such a great 315 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: human being. 316 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 3: I mean he is, and the fun you know, because 317 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 3: he's the first little baby i've been around, I've been 318 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 3: around little kids. But then I remember coming back to 319 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 3: the summer after the first year and he's talking. He's 320 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 3: calling Dell daddy, and I thought, this is hilarious. I've 321 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 3: got a friend who has a kid that calls him daddy. 322 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 3: Daddy is what I call Dell in my phone, what 323 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 3: I call him to. 324 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 2: This day because of that. 325 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: That's funny. 326 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 3: What's fun about Stephan is every time I see him 327 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 3: or talk to him at a ball game or where 328 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 3: of it, it is, the very first moment is a 329 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 3: little smile, kind of a you know, and I don't 330 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 3: even know what we're smiling about. It's probably me playing 331 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 3: little games with him when he was a kid, and 332 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 3: those are kind of hardwired memories. I remember being in 333 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 3: the car coming home from a like an exhibition game 334 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:33,640 Speaker 3: in Greenville, South Carolina, Me Del Muggsy and Stephan, and 335 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 3: I've said before, you know, I'm sure at the time 336 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 3: we thought we were big shit basketball players and the 337 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 3: best player in the car was in a baby seat 338 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 3: the whole time, but so true. Yeah, And Stephan was 339 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 3: just balling, crying, and Dale finally was like, take him 340 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 3: out of there. 341 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: See, you know, if you can get him. I put 342 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 2: him on my chest. 343 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 3: He went out like that, and I just remember feeling 344 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 3: his heart beating on mine and like right and close 345 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 3: to that moment, I. 346 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 2: Was like, oh, I've got to be a dad's day. 347 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 2: Like he just went to sleep. So cool. 348 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so cool. It was such a crazy year. 349 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: A couple of things were really unusual about the Hornets 350 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: back in the day. The uniforms. 351 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 2: Alexander Julian, yes. 352 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: Exactly, that teal and purple colorway, the big B and 353 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: most importantly. 354 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 2: The sleets. 355 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 3: I hated those uniforms and they're sort of iconic uniforms 356 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 3: now people, you know, for whatever reason. 357 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 2: The jerseys are anyway, we hated them. We were embarrassed 358 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 2: by them, you know, fleets and the shorts. Also, it 359 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 2: was a brand new team in some ways, like I 360 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 2: knew the Sixers and the Celtics and the Lakers, and 361 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 2: what's the Hornets? What are the heat? What is this? 362 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 3: And so in some ways it almost felt like we 363 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 3: weren't part of the NBA. 364 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: I remember the Raptors. They were named because it was 365 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: like Jurassic Park was such a hot thing. Kids were 366 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: into dinosaurs and so okay, let's name the team the 367 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: Raptors and make it a cute dinosaur wolves. 368 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, what are we doing? The Orlando Magic? 369 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: I know, I know that's so funny. You were a 370 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: knockdown shooter, but I'm not sure that fans remember you're 371 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: dunking acumen. 372 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 373 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, I competed in the what was it in nineteen 374 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: ninety right as a Hornet? You came in six competed 375 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 1: in ninety one. 376 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, they made me do it, Hannah. I didn't really 377 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 3: want to do it. If I went to the All 378 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 3: Star Game. I wanted it to be as a player, okay, 379 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 3: and we're playing on really bad teams in Charlotte, and 380 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 3: you know, none of us are going to be All Stars, 381 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 3: none of us are good enough to be All Stars, 382 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 3: and so I just felt like it was a gimmick, 383 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 3: And so I didn't do it my first year, and 384 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 3: I was asked for ten years to do it. 385 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 2: Cham toss us to himself for the two handed reverse jam. 386 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: You know, Bob, I didn't do it the first year. 387 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 3: The next year it was in Miami the second year, 388 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 3: and the league and the Hornets basically made me do 389 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 3: it because I didn't do it my first year. The 390 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 3: next year it was in Charlotte, and I did not 391 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 3: want to do it again, felt obligated to do it, 392 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 3: and did it that year, and then you know, I 393 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 3: got traded shortly after, and I was determined the next 394 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 3: time I went, I was going to be an All 395 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 3: Star and I was voted in, and then I got 396 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 3: hurt and all that stuff. I just was not going 397 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 3: to go back as a gimmick in the dunk contest. 398 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 2: First dunk Dominique Wilkins. 399 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: You see, Dominique has such great burn. 400 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 2: It was fun, you know, losing a dunk contest to 401 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,479 Speaker 2: Dominique Wilkins. Not many people could say that. 402 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're gonna lose, loose to the Human Highlights film, 403 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, if you're gonna lose, lose 404 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: to a good one, right, you know. But it is 405 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: really interesting hearing you say that you were kind of 406 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: made to do something that you really didn't want to do. 407 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: It's kind of hard to imagine that today's era, right, 408 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: it seems like players are empowered a lot more than 409 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: they were back in the day. I think, so, do 410 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: you think so? 411 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 2: Yes, you know, I think that's a good thing. 412 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, we talked about Michael Jordan takes a lot of 413 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 3: shit for not being more political. We came up in 414 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 3: an era where you wouldn't have a job, and Michael 415 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 3: probably was the only one of us that could really 416 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 3: afford to take a difficult political stance or have a 417 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 3: political stance of any kind. 418 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 2: You know, that wasn't the world we lived in. He 419 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 2: did the best he could. You know, I think that 420 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 2: the players being a little more empowered today is a 421 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 2: good thing. You know. There's a lot of stuff that. 422 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 3: You know, kind of went on, but I know you 423 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 3: know this, So from about age sixteen or seventeen to 424 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 3: twenty three or so, I had a black girlfriend, and 425 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 3: from a very young age, all through high school and 426 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 3: through Kentucky, I was sort of told to not do 427 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 3: that by different people, you know, institutional racism basically, and 428 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 3: I was really upset and angry about it. 429 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:09,640 Speaker 2: I didn't really realize it. 430 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 3: Then I got to Charlotte and they were offering six 431 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty thousand, which sounded like six hundred and fifty. 432 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 2: Billion dollars to me. 433 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 3: Sure with fortune and David Falk, my agent, wanted me 434 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 3: to hold out to get another twenty. 435 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 2: Five thousand dollars. 436 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 3: So I'm holding out for a week, and finally George 437 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 3: schen and Stupen and Spencer stop and CEO maybe. They 438 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 3: asked David and I to meet at his house, and 439 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 3: Spencer and David stay upstairs, and George takes me downstairs 440 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 3: and we're talking, chit chatting, and he said, do you 441 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 3: have a black girlfriend? And I said, uh what? He 442 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 3: asked me again, and we were broken up at the time. 443 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 3: I said, no, I don't, but if I did, and 444 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 3: that makes me a bad guy, then I guess I'll 445 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 3: just be a bad guy. That was the first time 446 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 3: I had ever stood up for myself really at all 447 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:05,199 Speaker 3: on the topic. 448 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 2: And I was nineteen two. 449 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: What did he say when you said that? 450 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 2: He said, no, no, no, no, no, I don't care. 451 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 3: But other people, he said, other people, And then he 452 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 3: used the term that I'd never heard before. He said, no, no, 453 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 3: I'm just saying be careful because you know, we live 454 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 3: in the Bible Belt and I'd never heard that, but 455 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 3: I knew what it meant, and I just was so disheartened. 456 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 3: We went upstairs and the deal was done, just like that. 457 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 3: He gave the rest of the contract and really, yeah, 458 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 3: so it was just it was a hell of a 459 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 3: way to start off after I'd kind of just been 460 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:45,360 Speaker 3: through it in college. 461 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: Nobody talked about no and I up front. Then nobody 462 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: would be public about it. They would just like you said, 463 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: it would manifest itself in institutional racism. 464 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, in so many other ways. Was the real confusing 465 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 2: part of it for me too, is that On is 466 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 2: the girl. We're still very good friends. Her brother Mark 467 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 2: were from the same hometown. Her brother Mark and other 468 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 2: brother Kenny Kenny was a professional basketball player played in 469 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 2: the NBA. Her brother Mark played in the NFL. He 470 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: played for the Dolphins. He was the best running back 471 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 2: at UK and Sean had won the hundred in high 472 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 2: school twice in a row. 473 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 3: Great athletic family. I'm being discouraged from dating her. Mark 474 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 3: and I are doing all the photo shoots at the 475 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 3: school together. Had she been white, people have wanted us 476 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 3: to get married and have a bazillion kids right away. 477 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, a parade for you. 478 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 2: Yeah. 479 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 3: There were times when I was told, you know, do 480 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 3: that be careful or go out at night that I 481 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 3: wanted to say, all right, let's go talk about this 482 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 3: in front of the team, you know, because I'm the 483 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 3: only white guy on the team. 484 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 2: For the most part, and all my teammates are black. 485 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 2: And let's see how this goes down when you guys 486 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 2: say this in the locker room. To me, I didn't 487 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 2: have the gut. I didn't have the knowledge to say 488 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 2: this is you guys are wrong. I just didn't and 489 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 2: I lived with it. 490 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 1: That's really that's a lot. Charlotte, you know, was a 491 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 1: very conservative town. And I even remember, you know, wearing 492 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: like a really nice suit that i'd gotten at like 493 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: the local belk or something, you know, at the time 494 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: getting hate mail at the station. You know, you should 495 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,479 Speaker 1: not stand up on the court. Your skirt is too short, 496 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 1: you should not be covering basketball, You're distracting people, You're inappropriate, 497 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: You're you know, I mean, just. 498 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 2: This makes a furnish to me. That's probably why I 499 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 2: thought you were always buttoned up. You were. Yeah, that 500 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 2: was another reason I probably thought, you know, look, she 501 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 2: is older, mature, she's but you were doing the same 502 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 2: thing I was doing. You were pretending to be a 503 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 2: grown up. Yeah. Yeah, well I. 504 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: Think that, you know, when you're a young person and 505 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: you're finding yourself, or really at any age, because everyone 506 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,479 Speaker 1: deserves to see who they want to to do. What 507 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: kind of job they want to to be who they are, 508 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: you know, but you get into a situation where even 509 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: if it's a few voices that are you know, bigoted, ignorant, 510 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: what have you, Even if it's a few when you're 511 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 1: a young person, that could really cut deep. You know, 512 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: I'm not equaiting our situation anyway, there's completely you know, 513 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: what you went through was terrible. 514 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 2: No, I get it, but. 515 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Like, I think when you're young, 516 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: and you were really young, you know, to kind of 517 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: have people speak to you that way. 518 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 2: That was just confusing, very you know, and in the 519 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 2: midst of a negotiation too. Yeah, you know what I mean. 520 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 3: Honestly, at that point, I still feel like, you know, 521 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 3: my parents should be around me when I have conversations 522 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,439 Speaker 3: like this, Like, yeah, I felt like a kid, a 523 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 3: real child. 524 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: Do you know that your dad and my dad actually intersected. 525 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: It's so crazy, I do. So your dad was playing 526 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: for the Kentucky Colonels when my dad. 527 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 3: Was there, Okay, And this is why, Like it was 528 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 3: confusing to me because when he told me that, I 529 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 3: was like, wait, that's not her name her name or exactly, 530 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 3: and he said, yeah, and he gave an answer that 531 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 3: I didn't really understand, but it did convince me that 532 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 3: he was your dad. 533 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, how wild is that? 534 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: That's crazy. I actually had to cross reference it because 535 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, so I knew your dad played for 536 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: the Colonels and the Pacers, so we played for a 537 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: couple of ABA teams. Obviously my dad was with the 538 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: Colonels and the Pacers. So I was like putting like 539 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: the years together, Like, yeah, they definitely cross paths. 540 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, in Louisville they did. 541 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so crazy to you. I mean, you are 542 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: obviously little, but when you were remember about sort of 543 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: your dad those days. 544 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 3: You know, I don't remember a whole lot because I 545 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,719 Speaker 3: was little, but I would guess he was probably finished 546 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 3: playing by the time I was four or five. But 547 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 3: I remember being at a few games and I would 548 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 3: see the red, white, and blue balls over there on 549 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 3: the rack, and like, if I could have just had 550 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 3: anything in the world, it would be that ball rack, 551 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 3: and I would go over and I'd grab a ball. 552 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 3: From time to time, without my mom knowing, I'd run 553 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 3: out there and i'd shoot a basket and I would 554 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 3: hear people cheer. 555 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 2: Really yeah, and from a very young age. I probably 556 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 2: did more damage than good. I bed off of feedback 557 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 2: like that, so that I always wanted to be a 558 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,719 Speaker 2: basketball player, didn't ever want to be anything else, had 559 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 2: no other dreams or aspirations. That's not a really good 560 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 2: way to go through life, very healthy way to go 561 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 2: through life. 562 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: But you don't think so, though, because I think not 563 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: knowing what you want to do is also I mean, 564 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: you had a goal, I had something that you worked towards, 565 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: and it's okay to love it is. 566 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 2: But I know I'm not saying that. Okay. 567 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 3: What I'm saying is that a person should have other interests. Also, 568 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 3: I was very one dimensional and that all I was 569 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 3: was a basketball player. I didn't care about school, I 570 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 3: didn't care about anything else, and it took everything that 571 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 3: I had to be able to play basketball and I 572 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 3: could solve anything on the court that was happening. The 573 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 3: rest of life was really hard for me, and I 574 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 3: was just very fortunate that I didn't, you know, stray 575 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 3: into drugs and alcohol until I finished playing. I just 576 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,959 Speaker 3: I think, deep down, I've got a lot of mental health, 577 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 3: mental illness in my family that we probably you know, 578 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 3: and alcoholism and drugs and stuff on both sides of 579 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 3: my family. 580 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: Sure, because so much of that as hereditary, you know. 581 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, the parties were a blast as a kid, Christmas 582 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 2: and all that. 583 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 3: I thought my family was great. We weren't around each 584 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 3: other the other times. Looking back, yeah, everybody was hammered. 585 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 3: They woke up drinking, went to bed drinking, and it 586 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 3: was fun for a kid. 587 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 2: I think maybe deep down I knew that if I 588 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 2: did that, I would like it and I wouldn't be 589 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 2: able to play basketball. So I stayed away from it. 590 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 3: And right when I finished, a doctor gave me oxy 591 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 3: conton I had had. 592 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: You were injured, you were hurting, right. 593 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd had seven surgeries my last three years of playing, 594 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 3: and I had a basic appendectomy. 595 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 2: And I got off the plane and doctor gave me oxy. 596 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: Contin and for an appendectomy. 597 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 3: For an appendectomy, I said, it's a new drug ticket. 598 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 3: I took it and in two days I was in 599 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 3: the love. It was the greatest thing I'd ever had. 600 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 3: I still had three four years left on my contract. 601 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 3: I never played basketball again. They had to pay me 602 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 3: because I was injured and all that, but I had 603 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 3: no interest and anything else ever. Again, I felt like 604 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 3: it was the greatest thing. Where's this been my whole life? 605 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 3: I'm funnier, I'm happier, I'm a better dad, I'm a 606 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 3: better husband. I can sit in my own thoughts, and 607 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 3: it's a lie. 608 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 2: I was addicted in two days. Though. 609 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 3: It was fun for a second, then it was fun 610 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 3: with problems, and then it was just problems. 611 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 2: And that happened very quickly. A matter of a year 612 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 2: and a half. 613 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 3: I was in rehab and I was taking forty viking 614 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 3: in a day and ten OxyContin a day, just chewing 615 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 3: them up and eating them. You know, I was self 616 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 3: medicating because I was still angry about a lot of things, 617 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 3: I'm sure, and never had really put anything together. 618 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: And you didn't have basketball anymore. 619 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 2: That's the other thing. 620 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: So if you're saying you were so myopic about basketball, right, 621 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: and you put everything your heart and sold everything into basketball, 622 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,959 Speaker 1: and then you don't have it anymore, Yeah, well then 623 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: then what do you have, right? 624 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 2: Yes? And John Lucas says all the time, he said, 625 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 2: athletes die twice. They die at the end of their life, 626 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 2: and they die at the end of their career. 627 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 3: And when I started taking that medicine, you know, obviously 628 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 3: looking back. I was for sure agreed, like I didn't 629 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 3: want to even think about that. I mean, there's a 630 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 3: thrill to playing and this was happening every single day 631 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 3: for me from the time I was five or six 632 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 3: I played basketball. I'd make a game winner, I'd make 633 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 3: two game winners that day. I would go on a 634 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 3: run and demralize the other team. There's a feeling that 635 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 3: you get from doing that, and then when you do 636 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 3: it in games, of course that's great. The biggest thrill 637 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 3: is what you're getting from your teammates. But you get 638 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 3: those feelings every single day. What you never realize is 639 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 3: that's going to leave. 640 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of what I was doing was 641 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 2: trying to just numb the thoughts of all of that. 642 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: But you know what is so interesting to hear you 643 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: talk about when I think about you, I think of 644 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: you with a smile on your face. You plastered that 645 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,399 Speaker 1: smile on your face all the. 646 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,240 Speaker 2: Time, and it wasn't how I felt. 647 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: It wasn't how I felt. 648 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was for sure starting to suffer from depression, 649 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 2: probably when I was seventeen or eighteen, and I felt 650 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 2: like everyone looked at me. I was very well. I 651 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,959 Speaker 2: was famous in Kentucky and nationally. Probably from the time 652 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 2: I was sixteen or seventeen or eighteen, you were a star, 653 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 2: huge star, and like telling anyone like I wouldn't have 654 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,320 Speaker 2: told my parents I'm depressed, I'm down. I don't feel 655 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 2: like that wasn't that was not manly a right. H'm 656 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 2: on the. 657 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 3: Cover of magazines and all that stuff, and I felt 658 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 3: like a phony. But I also felt like other people 659 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,240 Speaker 3: viewed me like I should be on top of the world, 660 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 3: and I didn't feel that way. So I was trying 661 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 3: to put on a I think a break face. 662 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 2: Nobody's that happy all the time. 663 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, smile, smile even though your heart is breaking, right, 664 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: and you know. 665 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,359 Speaker 3: How it is, Hannah. You started being recognized from a 666 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 3: young age. Some people that are that way, like Dannying 667 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 3: is someone I just love and respect, and Danny. Danny 668 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 3: goes out in public and like I don't, maybe he does, 669 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 3: Maybe he does think about people looking at him. He 670 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,280 Speaker 3: doesn't act like that bothers him or phases him. People 671 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 3: come up and talk to him. He seems just as 672 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 3: normal and natural as he always is. I've always thought 673 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 3: about people looking at me, and it's something that I 674 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 3: think a lot of people don't deal with. But when 675 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 3: you're out, strangers recognizing you and assuming that you know 676 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 3: them is weird. I started thinking about, like I idolized 677 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 3: Daryl Griffith growing up, and I remember what I how 678 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,839 Speaker 3: I thought about Darryl as a kid, and if I'd 679 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 3: have seen him, if he treated me shitty, it would 680 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 3: have ruined my life, Like I would have been like, 681 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 3: oh my god. I felt a sort of a burden 682 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 3: with that. Take your responsibility, yeah, because I was going 683 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 3: to disappoint some kids. Even if I stayed and signed 684 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 3: for an hour. There's going to be some kids that 685 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 3: I don't sign for, and I didn't want to have 686 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 3: the person if they idolized me. 687 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 2: I didn't want to ruin their day. And I'm sure 688 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 2: I did that a lot. 689 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: You know what's so interesting when you talk about the 690 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: challenges of being in the public eye, and especially at 691 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: the age that you were all the expectations, is that 692 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:45,280 Speaker 1: as you're emerging from your rehab and as you are 693 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: building sort of yet another chapter of your life, that 694 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: you choose to go into a public forum like Twitter, 695 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: which is a cesspool, okay of vitriol, and yet you 696 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: decide I'm going to start fighting all the funny stuff 697 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: I can out there and putting it on here. Things 698 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: are heartwarming, But that was your choice. That's such an 699 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: interesting choice to make, given all the things that we've 700 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: talked about. 701 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was a complete accident. You know. 702 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 3: I was doing some stuff for Kentucky basketball radio stuff 703 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 3: and I hated Twitter. I had probably seventy five thousand 704 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 3: Twitter followers. I hated it, and I hadn't been on 705 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 3: it in some time. But you know, you're kind of 706 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 3: supposed to have a social media presence these days. And 707 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 3: I just found a video video came across my phone 708 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 3: that was school of dolphins swimming out to the ocean 709 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 3: and a guy on a paddle board. One of them 710 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 3: jumped up hit him in the chest, and in my mind, 711 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 3: I said, that's a charge, like blocker charge, And I 712 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 3: asked that on Twitter. I just thought, you know, a 713 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 3: few basketball fans might get the reference and whatnot. Well, 714 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 3: it took off and pretty soon I don't have to 715 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 3: do any sports things on Twitter. I can just do this. 716 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 3: This is easy. 717 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,360 Speaker 2: People are sending me videos and then kind of the 718 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 2: pandemic hit and everyone's terrified sitting at home, and I've 719 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 2: gone from I don't know, seventy five thousand followers to 720 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 2: over a million in no time, and I think putting 721 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 2: those out, all of that stuff through the pandemic was 722 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 2: cathartic for some people. Definitely was cathartic for me. 723 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 3: I'm not naturally the happiest guy in the world, so 724 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 3: you know, it was giving me a little bit of 725 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 3: a laugh and feeling of connection during that time. So yeah, 726 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 3: it was a complete accident, the Twitter thing, Hannah. 727 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: I just think you're so amazing to share your story, 728 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: you know, especially I think for athletes, you know, it 729 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 1: might have be ingrained in you to share weakness and struggle, 730 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: and so I really admire you for that, and I'm 731 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 1: sure in the long run, you know, that's going to 732 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 1: have a bigger impact than even you did as a player. 733 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 3: I hope, you know when I think about this, and 734 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 3: I'm going to try to not tear up, and I 735 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 3: hope it comes across in the book. My ex wife 736 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 3: went through just hell with me. I respect her more 737 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 3: now and love her more now than I ever did. 738 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 3: She's the best mom in the world. She was an 739 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,400 Speaker 3: only child and she worried about whether she could like 740 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 3: be a mom to more than one kid. 741 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 2: We had four kids. All Star mom, all star person. 742 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 2: You know, I have a lot of regrets, but you know, 743 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 2: treating her the way I did is top of little list. 744 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, as you were reaching back with all of the 745 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: strength you've had to move beyond your addiction and really 746 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: come to grips with you know, the realities of what 747 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 1: you were dealing with. Right, Did you reach back at 748 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: all into those playing days or who you were, friendships, relationships, 749 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,320 Speaker 1: Did any of that give you give you strength? 750 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 2: I think that's at the top of the list. 751 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 3: I mean, I kind of feel a little guilty about 752 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,359 Speaker 3: this because most addicts don't have a support system and 753 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 3: have the friends that I was able to meet and 754 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 3: have through playing basketball from the time I got to 755 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 3: rehab and in sports circles, and you probably knew I 756 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 3: didn't for a long time I was in and out 757 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:18,240 Speaker 3: of rehab. 758 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,279 Speaker 2: People knew this in the sports that I had, you know, 759 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 2: had some issues, but it was became very public. You know, 760 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 2: I was arrested and I entered rehab, and that was 761 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 2: the first time that I, like had ever really tried 762 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,799 Speaker 2: to dig into why I did the things that I 763 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,760 Speaker 2: did and made the choices that I made and. 764 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 3: The second I got to rehab, I'm in Louisville, Kentucky, 765 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 3: and the first person to come was Rick Patino. 766 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 2: And Rick and I go way back. You know. 767 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 3: He didn't coach me at Kentucky, but I've known him 768 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 3: from five Star camp since I was fifteen. Rick and 769 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 3: his assistant Vinnie Tatum came to see. 770 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 2: Me, and I just balled. I bald. 771 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,760 Speaker 3: I was crying and saying, I'm just so fun toxic. 772 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 3: My life's over, my kids' lives are over. He said, Rex, listen, 773 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 3: and this is I'm barely out of detox, which is 774 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,960 Speaker 3: hell for seven or ten days, and he said, you're 775 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 3: going to eat a lot of shit for a while. 776 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 3: He said, but if you keep learning and moving forward, 777 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 3: doing the next right thing, that it's going to go 778 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 3: from a beach ball size to a basketball. If you 779 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 3: keep doing the next right thing, it'll go to a volleyball, 780 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,359 Speaker 3: and then to a softball and a baseball. Keep doing 781 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 3: the right thing, it'll go to a golf ball and 782 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 3: a ping pong ball and a pebble, and pretty soon, 783 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,480 Speaker 3: when you get on the other side of that, he said, 784 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,600 Speaker 3: that won't be the first thing people think of when 785 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 3: they think about you. And I heard it and I 786 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 3: thought insurmountable, you know, and but I remembered it. I'm 787 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,400 Speaker 3: still talking about it here nine or ten years later, 788 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 3: and it's stuck with me. So many people like that, 789 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 3: so many people who I you know, Danny Ainge, and 790 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 3: I could go on and on people in basketball and 791 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 3: in sports and not just fans, literal fans. 792 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had an amazing support system. You know. It's great. 793 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 2: My kids, you know, the stuff I was going through 794 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 2: their teenagers. There's a lot of guilt and shame and 795 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,960 Speaker 2: all of that stuff. And again, the mom's a rock star. 796 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 2: They love me. 797 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 1: You can't ask for more than that, right, you cannot 798 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: ask for anything more than that. I appreciate so much 799 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 1: sharing your story. It's so great to talk to you 800 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,840 Speaker 1: and such a special person. And yeah, I know sharing 801 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,920 Speaker 1: your journey is going to be super impactful. 802 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 2: Thanks. 803 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,279 Speaker 1: That was Rex Chapman. If you want to hear more 804 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 1: from him, follow him on x at Rex Chapman, or 805 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: pick up a copy of his new book, It's Hard 806 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:02,760 Speaker 1: for Me to Live with Me. Next time on NBA DNA, 807 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: here's Isaiah. 808 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,280 Speaker 2: Let's see what we got all the way 809 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,240 Speaker 1: Up Isaiah Thomas and the Motor City Bad Boys,