WEBVTT - John Lennon and the FBI 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:04.120 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:13.880 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:18.439 There's Charles W. Chuck Bryan out there. Jerry's here, special guest, Jerry. 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:26.840 This is the Stuff you Should Know, the Super Subversive Edition. Yeah, 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:32.159 which is I mean it's a it's subversive, but not 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:37.600 coming from who you'd expect in this case. The subversive people, Chuck, 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:42.320 are two of the crookedest, worst Americans to ever take 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:46.440 a breath of life in the United States. Yes, Hoover 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:51.800 and Nixon. Right, Yes, Herbert Hoover and Charles J. Nixon. 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:56.520 M hmmm, no, no, no, not those two. Was it 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:00.600 Ja Egger Hoover and Richard Nixon? Richard mill House. I 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:05.720 think it's sa middle House, that's right. So you picked 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:09.959 this one, right? Um? Yeah, I think we got help 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:12.560 from our buddy, was it? Um? Oh, it is a 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.520 grabst article, right, this is a grabster So? Um, why 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.640 did you choose this one? Chuck? I'm just a Beatles nut. 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:24.800 I'm reading a massive Beatles book and just I'm always 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.280 thinking about the Beatles. So this is something I knew 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:29.880 a ton about. So now I know I know more. 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:36.920 What are you thinking about the Beatles right now? They 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:40.319 could write a song like they could like they're really 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:42.600 good at writing songs. You mean, I think so. I 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:44.600 know you're not a Beatles guy, but they're regarded as 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:48.720 good songwriters. Sure, I'm willing to concede that at least. Yeah, 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.160 I'm a grown person. I'm I can concede when I'm 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:54.800 wrong or when I've been bested. I think we differ 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:56.960 on Yoko oh no though, so that'll be you know, 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:00.640 that's where the tables are turned. Okay, because you like 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:04.160 her singing, isn't that right? I appreciate it. I don't know. 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:07.280 Like is a pretty strong word, but I definitely appreciate it. 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.200 There's some songs like have you ever heard I Love 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.880 You Earth? Sure, that's a pretty sweet song. I like 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:16.800 her singing on that. But have you ever heard her 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:22.079 her cover of Katie Perry's Fireworks? No, I bet that's 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:26.040 something she did it at um maybe MoMA or the 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:29.440 Mad or something like that. And she's just standing there whaling. 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:32.639 She's not singing words or anything like that, just whaling. 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.920 And it was her cover of of Katie Perry's Firework 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.720 and it's it's pretty great to see I'm sure if 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.880 you look it up on YouTube. But I appreciate a 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.280 lot of her stuff. How about that. I appreciate her 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.360 as a human. And it's always fun to look back 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:52.760 at at performances, live performances with Lennon when she would 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:54.519 do a full like four or five songs on the 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:57.600 row in the middle of like Madison Square Garden concert 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:00.720 and you could kind of see his his backing band 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:02.720 just kind of like a boy. I can't believe we're 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:09.680 doing this right right, Um. And she's actually pretty strongly 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:12.760 implicated in this whole thing we're talking about John Lennon 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:19.440 um being pursued and and surveilled and basically harassed by 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:25.760 the FBI UM in the nineteen seventy two actually seventy two, 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:29.280 I believe um for a very specific reason. And it 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:31.880 was at a time when John Lennon and Yoko had 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:33.880 just got married. They got married like two to three 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:37.800 years before, and um, we're a very famous couple. The 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:39.960 grab star argues that they may have been like the 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:45.400 first genuine celebrity activist couple who actually used their celebrity 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:49.520 as a way to help help influence or help causes 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:54.520 that kind of thing. Um and by the time two 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:59.160 rolled around, Richard Milhouse Nixon was actually running for re 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:02.680 election again, and he decided that he didn't like people 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:08.000 like John Lennon running around conceivably swaying the vote, particularly 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.840 among newly minted voters in the eighteen to twenty one 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:15.440 year old block. Yeah, I mean, he and Yoko had 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:21.520 been contributors to causes, working class causes. It's sort of 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:24.520 the notion that Lennon was always known as the working 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:28.039 class hero. But uh, of all the Beatles, he grew 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:30.480 up more solidly middle class than any of the rest 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:33.039 of him. And not to say that that was a 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:37.880 false persona, but he definitely sort of, um, sort of 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:40.720 jumped and sort of leaned into that, as Noel Brown 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.560 would say, as far as is his persona. And I 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:46.680 think a lot of people that don't dig deep kind 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:48.640 of think that John Lennon grew up in with a 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.560 very hard scrap of life they're in Liverpool, which is 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.760 not the case. But um, as a result of that, 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:59.359 he championed the working man. He and Yoko contributed to causes. Uh, 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:04.159 he became him along with Yoko, very much pacifist activists. 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.720 And if you're a pacifist activist in the early seventies. 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:10.359 You're not going to be a big fan of Richard Nixon, 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:11.760 and he's not going to be a big fan of 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:16.280 you because he was. He was not cry about war, No, 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.599 he really wasn't. He'd even campaigned, um, I think in 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:22.360 sixty eight on ending the Vietnam War and then actually 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.680 went the exact opposite direction with that. Um, there was 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:27.520 a lot if you're a pacifist, there was a lot 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.000 to be upset about in the sixties and early seventies 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:34.360 because of Vietnam alone, you know, yeah, for sure. One 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:36.120 of the ways I think that got the most pressed 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:39.359 that when people think about John and Yoco's activism is 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:43.839 the bed ends that they had. That is B E. D, DASH, 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:45.920 I N S. And that is if you don't know 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:47.800 what those are, that's when you lay around in bed 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.160 and you invite the press to come to your room 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:53.640 and talk to you while you lay around in bed, 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.479 and why are why you're laying around in bed? And 0:05:57.560 --> 0:05:59.440 it looked kind of ridiculous to a lot of people, 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.880 especially people on the right. But um, John Lennon's whole 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:04.400 kind of point, and he was a very tongue in 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:06.440 cheek kind of had a great sense of humor. But 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:08.800 I think it all sort of stemmed from that, which 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:10.800 is like, hey, are you gotta do a stay in 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.159 bed and not go and start wars? And this is 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:16.040 a pretty ridiculous way to drive that point home. Yeah. Yeah, 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.880 Like rather than having to like go out and oppose violence, 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.839 you could oppose violence just by laying around in bed 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:24.880 and doing nothing, letting your hair grow, I think is 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.279 what they were saying, which is pretty awesome. And and 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:31.240 the thing is is it's John Lennon and you know, 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:33.839 Yoko Ono, and they're sitting around in bed with the 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:36.080 press in their hotel room, and like that in and 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.520 of itself is getting pressed. And then if you say, 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:39.920 well what is all this about, and you read a 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:42.919 little further into the article, I don't know, maybe it 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:44.839 kind of gets you in just the right way, and 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.080 all of a sudden you start thinking that way too. 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.120 And to the people who were, you know, running the 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:55.160 whole military industrial complex, that that, I mean, that's a threat, um, 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.440 even if it's just a threat of the threat of 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:01.320 saying like just don't you don't even have to oppose war, 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:04.480 just don't do anything. And that opposes Warren and of itself. 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.839 And that was like kind of the way things were 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:10.240 at the time. Like there was a lot of a 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:15.680 lot of people in power who were really opposed to 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.120 that kind of thinking, who were opposed to people who 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:22.120 were opposed to Vietnam or war in general, or violence 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:25.080 of any kind. Um, there was a big opposition of that, 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.560 and the people who were running the show in the 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:31.160 United States were chief among those people. Like we said 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:35.080 Nixon as president and then running for reelection, then JEdgar Hoover, 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:39.000 who was not shy at all about doing whatever he 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.400 needed to to quiet dissent, Like he would generate dossier's 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:47.640 on elected officials, especially ones who were more liberal, to 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.200 to basically keep them in line by threatening them with 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.280 blackmail or even the threat of blackmail. You know. Um, 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.520 there were plenty of hippies who got their heads cracked 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.520 in there were people who were surveilled. Um, we did 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:01.640 an up as it on the Black Panthers, if you remember, 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:05.160 we talked about um co intel pro the whole program 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.560 to basically undermine and smear the Black Panthers in the 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:13.480 public's mind. Like the Jake Er Hoover was a vicious 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.440 terrible human being. Um, And he ran the FBI for 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:19.920 decades and was still running the FBI when they started 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.600 to target John Lennon. Yeah. So to set the stage 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:27.840 here of kind of have this all worked out, was, um, 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:31.040 John Lennon had uh, he was able to enter. The 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.360 whole thing kind of boils down to whether or not 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.080 he would be allowed to live in the US, or 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:38.040 whether or not, if he was eventually allowed to live 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.959 in the U s if they could legally deport him. 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.400 So he was able to enter the US on a 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:47.720 work visa in seventy one. And concurrent with this, Yoko 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:51.599 Ono had a custody battle going on. She had a 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.320 daughter from her previous marriage in the early seventies and 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:58.400 she wasn't gonna leave at all. She was legally there. 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:00.720 They did try and deport her. They didn't know that 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:03.080 she had a green card already, which was sort of 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:07.760 the first foible in this thing. But they they knew 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:09.679 that they had a lot of leverage over Lennon because 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.199 if they deported him, he would be without his wife 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.400 who was going to stay there, So they have this leverage. 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:19.360 Lennon loved living in New York City. That's where he 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:22.400 wanted to make his permanent home so much so that 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:25.920 that was also leverage that they had to Yeah. Absolutely, 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:30.680 And so Nixon's up for re election in seventy two. Um, 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:32.520 he would go on to win, you know, in a big, 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:36.439 big way against McGovern. But they were, you know, they 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:40.160 were and it was about to comm an organization. They 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:45.520 were an administration that was very paranoid. Um. They would 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.280 obviously with Watergate, they showed that they were willing to 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:52.120 do anything to ensure their victory, and that included being 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.400 really worried about people like John Lennon. I don't think 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:57.920 he was at the top of their list of things 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:00.959 to worry about, but he was on their list thanks 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.559 to strom thurm of all people. Yeah. So strom Thurman, 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:10.199 the horrible segregationist senator UM from what South Carolina? Right, Uh. 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:15.280 He he actually kicked this whole thing off because I guess, uh, 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:19.480 he noticed that John Lennon was was you know, he 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.880 was left leaning rock star activists. He's he seems to 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.120 have been one of the first people that notice the 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:29.439 activism that was developing among John Lennon and Yoko on 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:31.800 No and to perceive it as a threat to the 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:38.200 establishment because all those um recently enfranchised eighteen, nineteen and 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:40.760 twenty year old voters who hadn't had the right to 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.040 vote until the twenty sixth Amendment had been passed. I 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.079 don't remember exactly when it was past, but it was 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.959 between sixty eight and seventy two, because seventy two was 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:51.599 the first election those younger kids were going to be 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:56.160 able to vote in, and he apparently saw Lennon as 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.280 among a group of people who could speak to those 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.400 kids and way them to the left and potentially unseen 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:04.680 Richard Nixon, which it would turn out is just a 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:08.040 total laugh because Nixon beat McGovern in a landslide. But 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.440 at the time they didn't know this, and Richard Nixon 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.680 wasn't going to take any chances, so his his the 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:16.600 note from strom Thurman was very well received in the 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:20.360 Nixon administration. Yeah, I think, Uh, what I want to 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:22.920 know is who told strom Thurman. That's what I want 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.640 to note too, because that's the biggest mystery here. Yeah. 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:27.640 I doubt of strom Thurman was too hip to any 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:30.679 of this, but somebody probably got in his ear and 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.800 he said he sent a note that specifically said they 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:39.280 try and get him deported as a quote strategic countermeasure. Uh, 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.240 and that's really kind of what got the ball rolling. 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:44.160 We should also mention this other guy, John. I don't 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.200 know if it's Weener or Winer. In this case, it's 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:50.560 pronounced weener slave. Oh it is no. Do you remember 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:53.160 there was a thirty Rock episode where there's like an 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:57.120 HR mediator and he's like this very soft, rosy cheeked, 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:01.840 very calm, mild bannerd man and um Liz Lemon says, well, 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:06.679 Mr Weiner's slav and he goes, no, it's pronounced weener slave. 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.720 I missed that show. It's like that was a really 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.840 good moment. They had such a great fun with dumb 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:16.520 jokes like that Bob blah blah. Yeah right, No, that 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:18.440 was the rest of development. Oh, that's right, that was 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:19.920 the rest of development. They kind of had the same 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:25.360 DNA though. So Weener slave Uh was a writer and 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.760 or is a writer and historian still, and he is 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.800 why we know so much of this. He was writing 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:34.120 a lot about John Lennon, writing a lot about the Beatles. 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:38.960 Um he decided to file uh Freedom of Information Act 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:42.199 requests to get a lot of these documents uncovered over 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.280 the years, and eventually he was successful, um in a 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:49.120 big dump in n then another smaller one in two 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:53.679 thousand and six. And if it not been for his tenacity, UM, 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.440 I don't know if anyone else would have picked up 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.720 this mantel too, because you know, in the end, it's 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:03.000 not the most interesting story in the world. This is true. 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.160 I say that in a whisper It's not like some 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.959 huge like oh my God, revelations. It's sort of one 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.280 of those things that's like just another example of the 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:15.800 small things that authoritarians do in this country under you know, 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.280 in the back rooms and in the whispered rooms of 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:21.360 the White House. Well, you know, I think that that's 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.800 really true. And that's a really good point, is that, 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:26.400 Like if you just look at it on his face, 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.920 like you know, the FBI followed around John Lennon, kept 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:31.800 tabs on him, and like if you read the files, 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:36.760 it's really pedestrian, boring stuff. UM, you might miss like 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:38.839 the real story here. In the real story here is 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.960 that a sitting president directed the FBI to get dirt 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:47.199 that he could use against a political rival and activist 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:49.960 rock Star, to help get him deported or to figure 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.320 out what leverage he could use against him. So that 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.800 that that sitting president could get reelected. That's the real 0:13:55.840 --> 0:14:00.240 story here, and that the FBI acted as as you know, 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:04.360 this um basically a get Stapo type agency on behalf 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.680 of Nixon. That's the real story that I think kind 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.559 of gets covered up by John Lennon and Yoko Ono's 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.400 celebrity and the you know, the FBI kind of wackily 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:16.520 following up around. Yeah, it is funny because if you 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:19.320 look at some of the files and some of the reports, 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:22.240 like they would go to his concerts and undercover agents 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:25.240 would go to the concerts and report things like, you know, 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.360 he for his encore, he's saying give Piece of Chance 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.000 and we all know about that song, and they would 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.320 take notes on song lyrics and stuff like that. So 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.960 it's all just kind of silly. But um, yeah, I 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.760 definitely agree that it's it's just an example of the 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:45.720 links that Nixon would go to to be a dirty thief. Yes, well, Chuck, 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:47.960 I think we should demonstrate the links that will go 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.120 to to bring everyone a message break. What do you 0:14:50.120 --> 0:15:13.720 think by just shutting up for two minutes? Okay, so 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.840 the whole thing um started. Eventually, it wasn't clear what 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:19.920 was gonna happen. But the real thing that kicked all 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:23.200 of John Lennon's big problems off was that he was 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:27.960 arrested in ninety eight in London for possession of narcotics 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:30.720 um and making air quotes you can't see because he 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:33.240 was busted with some pot I think maybe some hash 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.920 um and like rolling paraphernale. Is there's some really bs 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:40.960 beef that they got him on in London. There was 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:46.560 some true believer, zealous anti drug cop named Detective Sergeant 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:52.440 Norman pilcher Um who was later jailed actually for committing 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:58.080 perjury as a police officer. Um. But he uh, he 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:00.480 was alleged to have planted the evidence that may or 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.120 may not be true. But it was like a rap 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:05.440 that Lennon shouldn't have had on him or Yoko shouldn't 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.080 have had on her. Um that they just wanted a 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:12.600 high profile bust, and that happened in nine and it 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.320 turned out that that would follow Lennon for years to 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.280 come and really kind of be the fulcrum that the 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.600 US government had on him to try to keep him 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.680 from staying in the US. Yeah. I mean, he wasn't 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.920 even doing heroin at this point. I don't think so 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.680 they should have waited if they wanted a real case. Well, 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.920 it makes you wonder, Like I I remember hearing in 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:37.920 our I think Our Black Panther episode that the FBI 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:43.760 was not above like addicting activists and dissidents with Heroin, 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:46.560 like turning him onto Heroin and then getting him addicted 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:48.840 and then just you know, taking him out of the 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.160 game like that. Yeah, I think Lennon never shot Heroin. 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:56.760 That was his jam. Okay, so early seventy one, like 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:58.840 I said, he was able to enter on a tourist 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.800 visa and then when Nixon and his cronies get going 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.480 on the deportation. The whole thing was based on the 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:09.119 fact that he had overstayed his visa. UM. But along 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.960 with that, it was very valuable to them that he 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.320 had a drug conviction under his belt at that point, 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.560 so they were surveilling him. They were surveilling other artists 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.440 around the country to who they thought were subversive and 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:26.680 sending messages UM Lennon speaking of getting busted for Pott, 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:30.840 Lennon very famously wrote a song called John Sinclair Uh 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.359 in support and did a tribute or not tribute but 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:37.720 a concert in UM I don't know if they were 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:43.240 raising money or just awareness both. Okay. For John Sinclair, 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:45.359 who was a poet, he was the manager of the 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.719 m C five great great rock band UM and he 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:54.880 offered to undercover cops a couple of joints and went 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.120 and he had already had a couple of minor pot offenses. 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.879 But he went to prison for ten years for the 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.160 US and a big refrain in that song John Sinclair, 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:07.000 which is a cool song and very um roots and bluesy, 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.760 not like very linen at all. Uh is tin for two? 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.400 Tin for two is what they keep saying. Ten years 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:16.520 for two joints. Yeah, that he's sold to undercover cop right, Yeah, 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.320 but it worked. He actually was sprung from prison shortly 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.280 after this concert, yeah, like two days after. And some 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:25.080 people say, I think that indicates he was already going 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.879 to be sprung, that the Michigan Supreme Court knew this 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:31.480 was a this is a trumped up charge, but other 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:35.199 people say not. The concert surely had some impact, but 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:40.200 Sinclair is UM. So the point about Sinclair and John 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:42.919 Lennon is John Lennon performed the song. He was the 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:47.200 headliner at this concert in ann Arbor, and he had 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:51.600 been coordinating with other people in John Sinclair's Orbit UM 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.880 that were prominent figures in the New Left. And at 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:57.919 this time, in the early seventies, the sixties had ended 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.960 UM the the it had become clear that flower power 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:05.360 hadn't worked. The evil people were still in charge. So 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:09.960 what was next? Uh, maybe non violent coordination and UM 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.720 and resistance wasn't the way to go. Now. Lennon and 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:17.280 Yoko were dedicated pacifists. They didn't want anything to do 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:19.879 with violence, They didn't condone violence, they didn't like violence 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.760 in any way shape before. But there were elements in 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:27.480 the New Left UM who weren't necessarily convinced that that 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:31.240 wasn't the only way to to change the course of 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:33.840 of the United States and get rid of people like 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:37.840 Nixon and his cronies UM. And So, if you're watching 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.399 this from the outside, like your Jacker Hoover and Richard Nixon, 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:43.040 you're watching the people on the New Left, and you 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:45.520 don't know which way they're gonna break, violent, non violent, 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.040 who knows, But you're treating all of them with suspicion, 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:50.240 And all of a sudden, John Lennon, one of the 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.960 most recognizable and popular people on the Planet is suddenly 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:56.480 hanging out with some of these new left cats that 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:58.840 you don't know which way they're gonna go violent or 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:03.199 non violent, And that really drew the attention of the 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:07.120 FBI to John Line. It wasn't necessarily he and Yoko 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:10.679 and their pacifist stuff. It was some people think that 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:14.879 it was his involvement with genuine bona fide new left 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:21.080 activists like John Sinclair or like Um, like Bobby seal 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:25.120 Um like John Sinclair founded the White Panther Party, which 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:28.280 they had a ten point platform like the Black Panthers platform, 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:30.960 and the first platform in the White Panther platform is 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:34.000 that it's fully in support of the Black Panthers ten 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:36.679 point platform. So he's hanging out with a bunch of 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:41.920 people that um had proven themselves as as as died 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.000 in the wool foes of the Nixon administration. That definitely 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:48.560 caught the FBI's attention. Yeah, and they had big plans. 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.439 They got together and I think their first meeting was 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:56.639 that the Alla Ala Mooki Township and so I'm going 0:20:56.680 --> 0:21:00.159 to pronounce it the Scaramucci Township in New jery Z. 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:04.800 And initially called themselves the Alamouki Tribe, but wisely changed 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:08.480 their name to the Election Year Strategy Information Center. And 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:12.640 their plan was in nineteen seventy two is to hosted 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:14.679 and Lennon gave them money. He gave him like seventy 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:18.000 grand to kind of get going and said, here, listen 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.000 to a bunch of concerts with the help of John Lennon, 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.679 all across all across the country in nineteen seventy two. 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:27.760 We can have different artists performing different speakers, um, you know, 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:31.359 like pounding home the anti war message. And then as 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.760 these concerts roll closer and closer to the election, it'll 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:38.520 culminate in a big protest at the RNC in Miami. Um, 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.600 this is all very legal stuff. It wasn't. They weren't 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:46.080 staging riots or anything. These were just concerts awareness, um, 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:49.600 trying to keep Nixon from winning. And Nixon got worried 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:53.199 and he knew that, Like you said, the influence that 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:56.040 someone like John Lennon could have was like, he didn't 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:59.560 have anyone on his side. There was no Scott Bayo 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:03.360 at the time, wooing the youngsters blah blah to the right. 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:08.119 Oh he was blah blah blah, wouldn't he That's funny? Um, 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:09.880 So this is all going on, and this is kind 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:11.880 of what ramps up the pressure to get Lennon out 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:15.600 of there. Uh, this custody battles going on, they know 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:19.960 about that, and so there their first step was to 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:25.120 instruct immigration and naturalization to try and say, hey, you've 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:27.920 overstayed your visa. You gotta get out of here. And 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:30.280 Lennon knew this was coming. This is no secret. He 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:33.840 had gone on TV shows talking about being uh followed 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:37.080 by the FBI being having his phone tapped, which we 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:40.080 still aren't sure if that really happened. I think it 0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:44.199 says officially that there was no legal phone tapping in 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:47.840 the FBI documents, but that throwing that word legal in 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:50.080 there just kind of makes you think, like, well, were 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:51.800 there any illegal ones that you're not going to tell 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:56.199 us about? Yeah, I've read I read an interview, so 0:22:56.280 --> 0:22:58.639 this is like the depths of mind, depravity. I didn't 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:01.040 even listen to the interview. I read a Fresh Air 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:05.840 interview with John Weener or winer Um about this and 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:09.600 he said that in the FBI responded and said they 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:13.560