1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: There's Charles W. Chuck Bryan out there. Jerry's here, special guest, Jerry. 4 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: This is the Stuff you Should Know, the Super Subversive Edition. Yeah, 5 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: which is I mean it's a it's subversive, but not 6 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: coming from who you'd expect in this case. The subversive people, Chuck, 7 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: are two of the crookedest, worst Americans to ever take 8 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: a breath of life in the United States. Yes, Hoover 9 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: and Nixon. Right, Yes, Herbert Hoover and Charles J. Nixon. 10 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: M hmmm, no, no, no, not those two. Was it 11 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: Ja Egger Hoover and Richard Nixon? Richard mill House. I 12 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: think it's sa middle House, that's right. So you picked 13 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: this one, right? Um? Yeah, I think we got help 14 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: from our buddy, was it? Um? Oh, it is a 15 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: grabst article, right, this is a grabster So? Um, why 16 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: did you choose this one? Chuck? I'm just a Beatles nut. 17 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: I'm reading a massive Beatles book and just I'm always 18 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: thinking about the Beatles. So this is something I knew 19 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: a ton about. So now I know I know more. 20 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: What are you thinking about the Beatles right now? They 21 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: could write a song like they could like they're really 22 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: good at writing songs. You mean, I think so. I 23 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: know you're not a Beatles guy, but they're regarded as 24 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: good songwriters. Sure, I'm willing to concede that at least. Yeah, 25 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: I'm a grown person. I'm I can concede when I'm 26 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: wrong or when I've been bested. I think we differ 27 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: on Yoko oh no though, so that'll be you know, 28 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: that's where the tables are turned. Okay, because you like 29 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: her singing, isn't that right? I appreciate it. I don't know. 30 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: Like is a pretty strong word, but I definitely appreciate it. 31 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: There's some songs like have you ever heard I Love 32 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: You Earth? Sure, that's a pretty sweet song. I like 33 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: her singing on that. But have you ever heard her 34 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: her cover of Katie Perry's Fireworks? No, I bet that's 35 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: something she did it at um maybe MoMA or the 36 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: Mad or something like that. And she's just standing there whaling. 37 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: She's not singing words or anything like that, just whaling. 38 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: And it was her cover of of Katie Perry's Firework 39 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: and it's it's pretty great to see I'm sure if 40 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: you look it up on YouTube. But I appreciate a 41 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: lot of her stuff. How about that. I appreciate her 42 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: as a human. And it's always fun to look back 43 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: at at performances, live performances with Lennon when she would 44 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 1: do a full like four or five songs on the 45 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: row in the middle of like Madison Square Garden concert 46 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: and you could kind of see his his backing band 47 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: just kind of like a boy. I can't believe we're 48 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: doing this right right, Um. And she's actually pretty strongly 49 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: implicated in this whole thing we're talking about John Lennon 50 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: um being pursued and and surveilled and basically harassed by 51 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: the FBI UM in the nineteen seventy two actually seventy two, 52 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: I believe um for a very specific reason. And it 53 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: was at a time when John Lennon and Yoko had 54 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: just got married. They got married like two to three 55 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: years before, and um, we're a very famous couple. The 56 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: grab star argues that they may have been like the 57 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: first genuine celebrity activist couple who actually used their celebrity 58 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: as a way to help help influence or help causes 59 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Um and by the time two 60 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: rolled around, Richard Milhouse Nixon was actually running for re 61 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: election again, and he decided that he didn't like people 62 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: like John Lennon running around conceivably swaying the vote, particularly 63 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: among newly minted voters in the eighteen to twenty one 64 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: year old block. Yeah, I mean, he and Yoko had 65 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: been contributors to causes, working class causes. It's sort of 66 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: the notion that Lennon was always known as the working 67 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: class hero. But uh, of all the Beatles, he grew 68 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: up more solidly middle class than any of the rest 69 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: of him. And not to say that that was a 70 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: false persona, but he definitely sort of, um, sort of 71 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: jumped and sort of leaned into that, as Noel Brown 72 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: would say, as far as is his persona. And I 73 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: think a lot of people that don't dig deep kind 74 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: of think that John Lennon grew up in with a 75 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: very hard scrap of life they're in Liverpool, which is 76 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: not the case. But um, as a result of that, 77 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 1: he championed the working man. He and Yoko contributed to causes. Uh, 78 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: he became him along with Yoko, very much pacifist activists. 79 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 1: And if you're a pacifist activist in the early seventies. 80 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 1: You're not going to be a big fan of Richard Nixon, 81 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: and he's not going to be a big fan of 82 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 1: you because he was. He was not cry about war, No, 83 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 1: he really wasn't. He'd even campaigned, um, I think in 84 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: sixty eight on ending the Vietnam War and then actually 85 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: went the exact opposite direction with that. Um, there was 86 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: a lot if you're a pacifist, there was a lot 87 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: to be upset about in the sixties and early seventies 88 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: because of Vietnam alone, you know, yeah, for sure. One 89 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: of the ways I think that got the most pressed 90 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 1: that when people think about John and Yoco's activism is 91 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: the bed ends that they had. That is B E. D, DASH, 92 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: I N S. And that is if you don't know 93 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: what those are, that's when you lay around in bed 94 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: and you invite the press to come to your room 95 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: and talk to you while you lay around in bed, 96 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: and why are why you're laying around in bed? And 97 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: it looked kind of ridiculous to a lot of people, 98 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: especially people on the right. But um, John Lennon's whole 99 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: kind of point, and he was a very tongue in 100 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: cheek kind of had a great sense of humor. But 101 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: I think it all sort of stemmed from that, which 102 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: is like, hey, are you gotta do a stay in 103 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: bed and not go and start wars? And this is 104 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: a pretty ridiculous way to drive that point home. Yeah. Yeah, 105 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: Like rather than having to like go out and oppose violence, 106 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: you could oppose violence just by laying around in bed 107 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: and doing nothing, letting your hair grow, I think is 108 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: what they were saying, which is pretty awesome. And and 109 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: the thing is is it's John Lennon and you know, 110 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: Yoko Ono, and they're sitting around in bed with the 111 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: press in their hotel room, and like that in and 112 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: of itself is getting pressed. And then if you say, 113 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: well what is all this about, and you read a 114 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 1: little further into the article, I don't know, maybe it 115 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: kind of gets you in just the right way, and 116 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: all of a sudden you start thinking that way too. 117 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: And to the people who were, you know, running the 118 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: whole military industrial complex, that that, I mean, that's a threat, um, 119 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: even if it's just a threat of the threat of 120 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: saying like just don't you don't even have to oppose war, 121 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: just don't do anything. And that opposes Warren and of itself. 122 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: And that was like kind of the way things were 123 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: at the time. Like there was a lot of a 124 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: lot of people in power who were really opposed to 125 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: that kind of thinking, who were opposed to people who 126 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: were opposed to Vietnam or war in general, or violence 127 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: of any kind. Um, there was a big opposition of that, 128 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: and the people who were running the show in the 129 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: United States were chief among those people. Like we said 130 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: Nixon as president and then running for reelection, then JEdgar Hoover, 131 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: who was not shy at all about doing whatever he 132 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: needed to to quiet dissent, Like he would generate dossier's 133 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: on elected officials, especially ones who were more liberal, to 134 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: to basically keep them in line by threatening them with 135 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: blackmail or even the threat of blackmail. You know. Um, 136 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: there were plenty of hippies who got their heads cracked 137 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: in there were people who were surveilled. Um, we did 138 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: an up as it on the Black Panthers, if you remember, 139 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: we talked about um co intel pro the whole program 140 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: to basically undermine and smear the Black Panthers in the 141 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: public's mind. Like the Jake Er Hoover was a vicious 142 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: terrible human being. Um, And he ran the FBI for 143 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: decades and was still running the FBI when they started 144 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: to target John Lennon. Yeah. So to set the stage 145 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: here of kind of have this all worked out, was, um, 146 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: John Lennon had uh, he was able to enter. The 147 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: whole thing kind of boils down to whether or not 148 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: he would be allowed to live in the US, or 149 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: whether or not, if he was eventually allowed to live 150 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 1: in the U s if they could legally deport him. 151 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: So he was able to enter the US on a 152 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: work visa in seventy one. And concurrent with this, Yoko 153 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:51,599 Speaker 1: Ono had a custody battle going on. She had a 154 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: daughter from her previous marriage in the early seventies and 155 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: she wasn't gonna leave at all. She was legally there. 156 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: They did try and deport her. They didn't know that 157 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: she had a green card already, which was sort of 158 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: the first foible in this thing. But they they knew 159 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: that they had a lot of leverage over Lennon because 160 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 1: if they deported him, he would be without his wife 161 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: who was going to stay there, So they have this leverage. 162 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: Lennon loved living in New York City. That's where he 163 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: wanted to make his permanent home so much so that 164 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: that was also leverage that they had to Yeah. Absolutely, 165 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: And so Nixon's up for re election in seventy two. Um, 166 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: he would go on to win, you know, in a big, 167 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 1: big way against McGovern. But they were, you know, they 168 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: were and it was about to comm an organization. They 169 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: were an administration that was very paranoid. Um. They would 170 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: obviously with Watergate, they showed that they were willing to 171 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: do anything to ensure their victory, and that included being 172 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: really worried about people like John Lennon. I don't think 173 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: he was at the top of their list of things 174 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 1: to worry about, but he was on their list thanks 175 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 1: to strom thurm of all people. Yeah. So strom Thurman, 176 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: the horrible segregationist senator UM from what South Carolina? Right, Uh. 177 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: He he actually kicked this whole thing off because I guess, uh, 178 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: he noticed that John Lennon was was you know, he 179 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: was left leaning rock star activists. He's he seems to 180 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: have been one of the first people that notice the 181 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 1: activism that was developing among John Lennon and Yoko on 182 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: No and to perceive it as a threat to the 183 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: establishment because all those um recently enfranchised eighteen, nineteen and 184 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: twenty year old voters who hadn't had the right to 185 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: vote until the twenty sixth Amendment had been passed. I 186 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 1: don't remember exactly when it was past, but it was 187 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,959 Speaker 1: between sixty eight and seventy two, because seventy two was 188 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,599 Speaker 1: the first election those younger kids were going to be 189 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: able to vote in, and he apparently saw Lennon as 190 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: among a group of people who could speak to those 191 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: kids and way them to the left and potentially unseen 192 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: Richard Nixon, which it would turn out is just a 193 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: total laugh because Nixon beat McGovern in a landslide. But 194 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: at the time they didn't know this, and Richard Nixon 195 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: wasn't going to take any chances, so his his the 196 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: note from strom Thurman was very well received in the 197 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: Nixon administration. Yeah, I think, Uh, what I want to 198 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: know is who told strom Thurman. That's what I want 199 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: to note too, because that's the biggest mystery here. Yeah. 200 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: I doubt of strom Thurman was too hip to any 201 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 1: of this, but somebody probably got in his ear and 202 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: he said he sent a note that specifically said they 203 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: try and get him deported as a quote strategic countermeasure. Uh, 204 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: and that's really kind of what got the ball rolling. 205 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: We should also mention this other guy, John. I don't 206 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: know if it's Weener or Winer. In this case, it's 207 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: pronounced weener slave. Oh it is no. Do you remember 208 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: there was a thirty Rock episode where there's like an 209 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: HR mediator and he's like this very soft, rosy cheeked, 210 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: very calm, mild bannerd man and um Liz Lemon says, well, 211 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 1: Mr Weiner's slav and he goes, no, it's pronounced weener slave. 212 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: I missed that show. It's like that was a really 213 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: good moment. They had such a great fun with dumb 214 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: jokes like that Bob blah blah. Yeah right, No, that 215 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: was the rest of development. Oh, that's right, that was 216 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: the rest of development. They kind of had the same 217 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: DNA though. So Weener slave Uh was a writer and 218 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: or is a writer and historian still, and he is 219 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: why we know so much of this. He was writing 220 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: a lot about John Lennon, writing a lot about the Beatles. 221 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: Um he decided to file uh Freedom of Information Act 222 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 1: requests to get a lot of these documents uncovered over 223 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: the years, and eventually he was successful, um in a 224 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: big dump in n then another smaller one in two 225 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: thousand and six. And if it not been for his tenacity, UM, 226 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone else would have picked up 227 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: this mantel too, because you know, in the end, it's 228 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: not the most interesting story in the world. This is true. 229 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: I say that in a whisper It's not like some 230 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 1: huge like oh my God, revelations. It's sort of one 231 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: of those things that's like just another example of the 232 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: small things that authoritarians do in this country under you know, 233 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: in the back rooms and in the whispered rooms of 234 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: the White House. Well, you know, I think that that's 235 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: really true. And that's a really good point, is that, 236 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: Like if you just look at it on his face, 237 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: like you know, the FBI followed around John Lennon, kept 238 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: tabs on him, and like if you read the files, 239 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: it's really pedestrian, boring stuff. UM, you might miss like 240 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,839 Speaker 1: the real story here. In the real story here is 241 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 1: that a sitting president directed the FBI to get dirt 242 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 1: that he could use against a political rival and activist 243 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: rock Star, to help get him deported or to figure 244 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: out what leverage he could use against him. So that 245 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: that that sitting president could get reelected. That's the real 246 00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: story here, and that the FBI acted as as you know, 247 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: this um basically a get Stapo type agency on behalf 248 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: of Nixon. That's the real story that I think kind 249 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,559 Speaker 1: of gets covered up by John Lennon and Yoko Ono's 250 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: celebrity and the you know, the FBI kind of wackily 251 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: following up around. Yeah, it is funny because if you 252 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: look at some of the files and some of the reports, 253 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: like they would go to his concerts and undercover agents 254 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: would go to the concerts and report things like, you know, 255 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: he for his encore, he's saying give Piece of Chance 256 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: and we all know about that song, and they would 257 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: take notes on song lyrics and stuff like that. So 258 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: it's all just kind of silly. But um, yeah, I 259 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: definitely agree that it's it's just an example of the 260 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: links that Nixon would go to to be a dirty thief. Yes, well, Chuck, 261 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: I think we should demonstrate the links that will go 262 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: to to bring everyone a message break. What do you 263 00:14:50,120 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: think by just shutting up for two minutes? Okay, so 264 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: the whole thing um started. Eventually, it wasn't clear what 265 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: was gonna happen. But the real thing that kicked all 266 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: of John Lennon's big problems off was that he was 267 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: arrested in ninety eight in London for possession of narcotics 268 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: um and making air quotes you can't see because he 269 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: was busted with some pot I think maybe some hash 270 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: um and like rolling paraphernale. Is there's some really bs 271 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: beef that they got him on in London. There was 272 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: some true believer, zealous anti drug cop named Detective Sergeant 273 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: Norman pilcher Um who was later jailed actually for committing 274 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: perjury as a police officer. Um. But he uh, he 275 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: was alleged to have planted the evidence that may or 276 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: may not be true. But it was like a rap 277 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: that Lennon shouldn't have had on him or Yoko shouldn't 278 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: have had on her. Um that they just wanted a 279 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: high profile bust, and that happened in nine and it 280 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: turned out that that would follow Lennon for years to 281 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: come and really kind of be the fulcrum that the 282 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: US government had on him to try to keep him 283 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: from staying in the US. Yeah. I mean, he wasn't 284 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: even doing heroin at this point. I don't think so 285 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: they should have waited if they wanted a real case. Well, 286 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: it makes you wonder, Like I I remember hearing in 287 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: our I think Our Black Panther episode that the FBI 288 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: was not above like addicting activists and dissidents with Heroin, 289 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: like turning him onto Heroin and then getting him addicted 290 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: and then just you know, taking him out of the 291 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: game like that. Yeah, I think Lennon never shot Heroin. 292 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: That was his jam. Okay, so early seventy one, like 293 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: I said, he was able to enter on a tourist 294 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: visa and then when Nixon and his cronies get going 295 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: on the deportation. The whole thing was based on the 296 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 1: fact that he had overstayed his visa. UM. But along 297 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: with that, it was very valuable to them that he 298 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: had a drug conviction under his belt at that point, 299 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: so they were surveilling him. They were surveilling other artists 300 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: around the country to who they thought were subversive and 301 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: sending messages UM Lennon speaking of getting busted for Pott, 302 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: Lennon very famously wrote a song called John Sinclair Uh 303 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: in support and did a tribute or not tribute but 304 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: a concert in UM I don't know if they were 305 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: raising money or just awareness both. Okay. For John Sinclair, 306 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: who was a poet, he was the manager of the 307 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,719 Speaker 1: m C five great great rock band UM and he 308 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: offered to undercover cops a couple of joints and went 309 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 1: and he had already had a couple of minor pot offenses. 310 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: But he went to prison for ten years for the 311 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: US and a big refrain in that song John Sinclair, 312 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: which is a cool song and very um roots and bluesy, 313 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: not like very linen at all. Uh is tin for two? 314 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: Tin for two is what they keep saying. Ten years 315 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: for two joints. Yeah, that he's sold to undercover cop right, Yeah, 316 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: but it worked. He actually was sprung from prison shortly 317 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: after this concert, yeah, like two days after. And some 318 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: people say, I think that indicates he was already going 319 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: to be sprung, that the Michigan Supreme Court knew this 320 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: was a this is a trumped up charge, but other 321 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 1: people say not. The concert surely had some impact, but 322 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: Sinclair is UM. So the point about Sinclair and John 323 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: Lennon is John Lennon performed the song. He was the 324 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: headliner at this concert in ann Arbor, and he had 325 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: been coordinating with other people in John Sinclair's Orbit UM 326 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 1: that were prominent figures in the New Left. And at 327 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 1: this time, in the early seventies, the sixties had ended 328 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: UM the the it had become clear that flower power 329 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,360 Speaker 1: hadn't worked. The evil people were still in charge. So 330 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: what was next? Uh, maybe non violent coordination and UM 331 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: and resistance wasn't the way to go. Now. Lennon and 332 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: Yoko were dedicated pacifists. They didn't want anything to do 333 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 1: with violence, They didn't condone violence, they didn't like violence 334 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: in any way shape before. But there were elements in 335 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: the New Left UM who weren't necessarily convinced that that 336 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: wasn't the only way to to change the course of 337 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: of the United States and get rid of people like 338 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: Nixon and his cronies UM. And So, if you're watching 339 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 1: this from the outside, like your Jacker Hoover and Richard Nixon, 340 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: you're watching the people on the New Left, and you 341 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: don't know which way they're gonna break, violent, non violent, 342 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: who knows, But you're treating all of them with suspicion, 343 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, John Lennon, one of the 344 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: most recognizable and popular people on the Planet is suddenly 345 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: hanging out with some of these new left cats that 346 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: you don't know which way they're gonna go violent or 347 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 1: non violent, And that really drew the attention of the 348 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 1: FBI to John Line. It wasn't necessarily he and Yoko 349 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: and their pacifist stuff. It was some people think that 350 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 1: it was his involvement with genuine bona fide new left 351 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: activists like John Sinclair or like Um, like Bobby seal 352 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 1: Um like John Sinclair founded the White Panther Party, which 353 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: they had a ten point platform like the Black Panthers platform, 354 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: and the first platform in the White Panther platform is 355 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: that it's fully in support of the Black Panthers ten 356 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: point platform. So he's hanging out with a bunch of 357 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: people that um had proven themselves as as as died 358 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: in the wool foes of the Nixon administration. That definitely 359 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: caught the FBI's attention. Yeah, and they had big plans. 360 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 1: They got together and I think their first meeting was 361 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: that the Alla Ala Mooki Township and so I'm going 362 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 1: to pronounce it the Scaramucci Township in New jery Z. 363 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: And initially called themselves the Alamouki Tribe, but wisely changed 364 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: their name to the Election Year Strategy Information Center. And 365 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: their plan was in nineteen seventy two is to hosted 366 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: and Lennon gave them money. He gave him like seventy 367 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: grand to kind of get going and said, here, listen 368 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: to a bunch of concerts with the help of John Lennon, 369 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 1: all across all across the country in nineteen seventy two. 370 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: We can have different artists performing different speakers, um, you know, 371 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: like pounding home the anti war message. And then as 372 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: these concerts roll closer and closer to the election, it'll 373 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: culminate in a big protest at the RNC in Miami. Um, 374 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: this is all very legal stuff. It wasn't. They weren't 375 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: staging riots or anything. These were just concerts awareness, um, 376 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: trying to keep Nixon from winning. And Nixon got worried 377 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: and he knew that, Like you said, the influence that 378 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: someone like John Lennon could have was like, he didn't 379 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: have anyone on his side. There was no Scott Bayo 380 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 1: at the time, wooing the youngsters blah blah to the right. 381 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: Oh he was blah blah blah, wouldn't he That's funny? Um, 382 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: So this is all going on, and this is kind 383 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: of what ramps up the pressure to get Lennon out 384 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: of there. Uh, this custody battles going on, they know 385 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: about that, and so there their first step was to 386 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 1: instruct immigration and naturalization to try and say, hey, you've 387 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: overstayed your visa. You gotta get out of here. And 388 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: Lennon knew this was coming. This is no secret. He 389 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: had gone on TV shows talking about being uh followed 390 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: by the FBI being having his phone tapped, which we 391 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: still aren't sure if that really happened. I think it 392 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 1: says officially that there was no legal phone tapping in 393 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: the FBI documents, but that throwing that word legal in 394 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: there just kind of makes you think, like, well, were 395 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: there any illegal ones that you're not going to tell 396 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 1: us about? Yeah, I've read I read an interview, so 397 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: this is like the depths of mind, depravity. I didn't 398 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: even listen to the interview. I read a Fresh Air 399 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: interview with John Weener or winer Um about this and 400 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: he said that in the FBI responded and said they 401 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: they found no evidence of illegal wire tapping by the 402 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: FBI or no legal wire tapping by the FBI. So 403 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: so Winer's like, Okay, does that mean they were doing 404 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: illegal wire tapping or does it mean that they didn't 405 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: look very hard for evidence. It doesn't mean that they 406 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: weren't tapping his phone, is what he's saying. Right. Uh, 407 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,479 Speaker 1: at least made Lenin paranoid enough, Like he wasn't just 408 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,479 Speaker 1: not he wasn't not sweating this. He was this made 409 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: him very paranoid, um and with good reason. But he 410 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,959 Speaker 1: took to going next door at the Dakoda building so 411 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 1: he would let Lennon use his phone in his apartment, uh, 412 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: to make phone calls and I guess, you know, assist 413 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: with the cause at the same time a little bit. 414 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: And then the FBI said, you know what could really 415 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: help is if we could bust them currently for narcotics 416 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: in the United States, if we have an active charge 417 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: drug charge against them, And Hoover sent it out himself. 418 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: He said, quote for info on a bureau n y 419 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: CPD Narcotics Division is aware of the subject's recent use 420 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: of narcotics, which is like every day, and are attempting 421 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 1: to obtain enough info to arrest both subject and wife 422 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: Yoko based on p D investigation. Yeah, by this time 423 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: I'm thinking he was using heroin. I think that's what 424 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: they were referencing, is his recent use. Oh really, I 425 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: didn't think that started until later. I thought it was 426 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: the early seventies. I thought it happened during his lost weekend. 427 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: But I may be wrong in that. I'm not that 428 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: far long. I'm gonna air towards you then, because I'm 429 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: just surmising here. I'm not the one who is a 430 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: big old book of Beatles history. M so. Um, I 431 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: don't know. They never they never actually busted him, right, 432 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: This was all just like they were planning on doing this, 433 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: but they never needed to. I don't think he was 434 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: arrested uh in the United States? Was he? I didn't know. 435 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: I didn't get that impression, but but it seemed like 436 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 1: everything was kind of barreling toward that. And even like 437 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: you were saying, the FBI was like, we've let the 438 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 1: NYPD know to to to go do this, um so, 439 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: And if you take a step back, like this is 440 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: some heat, this is some pressure that they're putting on 441 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: John and Yoko. They're basically saying, we're gonna split you 442 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: guys up by deporting John because we know that Yoko 443 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: is not going to leave the country because of this 444 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 1: custody battle. She can't afford to so she has to 445 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: stay here. So if we threatened deportation to John Lennon, 446 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: it might actually UM keep him in line. And the 447 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: FBI used the word neutralized that they were seeking to 448 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: neutralize Lennon. UM, and I guess some people who don't 449 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: dig very deeply into the story or like they were 450 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: going to assassinate John Lennon and UM John wiener Weiner 451 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 1: UM has pointed out like this is not at all 452 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: what they meant. They meant like basically making him ineffective, 453 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: like UM, taking him out of the game, basically one 454 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 1: way or another. UM, but not killing him, just convincing 455 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: him through putting this undo unfair undemocratic pressure on him 456 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,199 Speaker 1: to drop his activities with the New Left. Yeah, and 457 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: they And by the way, I think I think he 458 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: probably was using heir when in the late sixties then 459 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: headed on again off again, but either way, so so 460 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: that makes sense because I did see that guys like 461 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: Jerry Rubin and UM, I think Renny Davis, a couple 462 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: of like the Chicago Seven, like they didn't even like 463 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,959 Speaker 1: hang out with them because he was doing too many drugs, 464 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: and I'm guessing that it wasn't like he was smoking 465 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: so much pot. We can't even talk with them anymore. 466 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: Like I think he was shooting dope and they weren't. Yeah, 467 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: well he never shot it. He always smoked it, smoking dope, 468 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: but he and I think he and Yoko were doing 469 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,479 Speaker 1: here when actually before the Beatles broke up at the end, 470 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: when they were sort of a strange not with the Beatles, 471 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: not John and Yoko, but um at any rate, they, 472 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: like I said, these investigations are going on and they're 473 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: going to his concerts and they're not even sending information 474 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: that really means much. They're even saying some of these informants, 475 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: like you know what they're they're not even really down with, 476 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: Like the New Left isn't even down with them because 477 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: they think they're just quote self aggrand aggrandizing rock stars 478 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: or there's a little chance that they'll accomplish anything because 479 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: they spend all their time doing drugs. They're kind of 480 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: sending the message like you really don't need to worry 481 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: so much about John Lennon. He's not much of a threat. Uh. 482 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: Kind Of One of the funny things about this investigation 483 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: was when um the Lennon was one of the most 484 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: famous people in the world, one of the most recognizable 485 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: faces in the world on planet Earth, along with Yoko 486 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: oh No, and the FBI, it passes around a sheet 487 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: with Lennon's picture on it so they can recognize him. 488 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: But it was the wrong photo. It was of a 489 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: different human being. It wasn't even John Lennon. Yeah, it 490 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: was a street busker from the West Village named David Peel, 491 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: so funny, who had a record that I guess John 492 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: Lennon helped produce or something, and he looked vaguely like 493 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: John Lennon. But that was the That was the picture 494 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: that the FBI passed around of the cops of the 495 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: wrong guy. They also the FBI also put out at 496 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: All Points bulletin UM searching for John Lennon and said 497 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: that he's at the St. Regis at one fifty Bank Street, 498 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: UM landscape. Sup. That's right. I guess that's what they meant, 499 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: because the St. Regis Hotel is on Central Park UM 500 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: and John Lennon was indeed living on Bank Street at 501 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: the time, but he was at one oh five Bank Street, 502 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 1: so that All Points bulletin was all kinds of wrong. 503 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: But this is the level of like um copery that 504 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: that that the FBI was conducting, you know, trying to 505 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: get John Lennon. All right, well, let's take a break 506 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: and we'll come back and talk a little bit about 507 00:28:44,440 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: Lennon's official defense right after this. Alright, so John Lennon 508 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: is not going to take this lying down. He was. 509 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: He was paranoid. He was going on like the Mike 510 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: Douglas Show and talking about the FBI coming after him. Um. 511 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: The first thing he did was probably what any really 512 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: really rich person would do, is he hires a top 513 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: rate bulldog attorney UM to try and defend this or 514 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: at least delay this. And this guy's name was Leon 515 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: Wilde's and he really did delay this. He was sort 516 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: of a master at filing these motions and getting it 517 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: extended and extended, and Lennon was able to stay in 518 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: the country longer and longer and longer. But he was 519 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: also kind of instrumental in UM kind of letting Lennon 520 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: know that this was a real situation that he was 521 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: involved in. Right. UM. The thing is is, if you 522 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: UM are a immigration prosecutor for the federal government of 523 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: the United States, you know that there's not a ton 524 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: of resources allocated to your division, right or traditionally there 525 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: hasn't been, and so customarily the Justice Department has or 526 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: I guess i n S has left it up to 527 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: each prosecutor to determine how hard they want to prosecute 528 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: the case. And so if you are a UM, upstanding 529 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: person who's never posed any sort of threat to the 530 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: United States, and maybe you own a business or your 531 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: productive member of society, there's a chance that the I 532 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: n S is going to look the other way and 533 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: not actually deport you, even if you are here illegally, 534 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: you have overstayed your visa or you came to the 535 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: country illegally who knows. Um. And that's actually where the 536 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: Dreamer program came from, docca uh. It basically said, like, 537 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: these particular immigrants were brought here as children and they 538 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: pose no threat. Most of them are going to college 539 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: or college bounder there in the military, so we're going 540 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: to not deport them. Um. And what what Lennon's um 541 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: lawyer told him was like all of this is true, 542 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: and yet they're putting the heat on you like I 543 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: have never seen this is this is clearly coming down 544 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: from on high, like they want to get you out 545 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: of the United States. And it's not just this prosecutor. Yeah. 546 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: And the other thing that happens when it comes to 547 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: a case like this is they have to weigh or 548 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: they can be decided basically on the value that an 549 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: immigrant might bring to the US by being an American 550 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: or living in the United States. And so there was 551 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of funny to look back now 552 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: and think that there had to be a case made 553 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: that John Lennon brings any kind of value, But they did. 554 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: And there was a series of letters written um by 555 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: Bob Dylan and John Baya's and Joyce, Carol Oates, Leonard Bernstein, 556 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: John Updike, just a series of very famous artist kind 557 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: of arguing in favor of John Lennon being allowed to 558 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: live here. It was sort of a flood of public 559 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: outcry like what you know, what little was known back 560 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: then at least, like you can't just there's tremendous value 561 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: to letting John Lennon stay in this country, right, And 562 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: don't forget John Cage wrote a letter to and I'm 563 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,239 Speaker 1: sure it was kind of like, well, you know, do 564 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: you want me to write a letter for you, John, 565 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, sure, I'm sure that would help a lot, 566 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: John Cage, because I'm sure no one in the Nixon 567 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: administration has ever heard of you. So, um the one 568 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,719 Speaker 1: kind of the up shot, I'm just going full on 569 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: using this word now. The upshot of of that letter 570 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: writing campaign was not even just so much to demonstrate 571 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: the value of of John Lennon remaining in the United States. 572 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: It was if you kick him out, like, there's going 573 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: to be a public outcry and you're gonna be held 574 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: to account and asked to explain why you guys kicked 575 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: him out. Um So, it did have a bit of that, 576 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: combined with um, his his attorney's tenacity, it kept John 577 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: Lennon in the country. He was actually never deported, even 578 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: though they were. He had a He lived for I 579 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,959 Speaker 1: think two or three years with a you have sixty 580 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: days to leave the country order, and his his lawyer 581 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,959 Speaker 1: kept getting it extended and extended and extended. But for 582 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: three years that was the threat that he was living under, 583 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: and again he was deported. He would leave without his wife, 584 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: who had to stay in the country for her own 585 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: custody battle. Um So that was that was a lot 586 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: of strain on him. Actually, And UM, the worst part 587 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: about this whole thing is not that the FBI did 588 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: this and that the Knickson administration single mounter, that it 589 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: all came down to strom Thurman writing this memo to 590 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: kick things off. It was that it worked. Like they 591 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: sought to neutralize John Lennon and his political activism and 592 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 1: he stopped. He actually did. He gave in uh in 593 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: August nine seventy two by announcing that he was not 594 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: going to take part in that series of concerts that 595 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: was going to culminate at the Republican National Convention, or 596 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: engage in any kind of activist activities any longer. He's 597 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: just going to go back to being a musician again. Yeah. 598 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: And by this point, Hoover was dead. Uh L. Patrick 599 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 1: Gray was the acting director of the FBI, and in 600 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: that same month at August before the election, in November, UM, 601 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: the FBI's New York office reported to Gray that he's 602 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,919 Speaker 1: no longer going to be involved with these concerts, he's 603 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,919 Speaker 1: no longer with the new Left. Um, we don't really 604 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: need to worry about him anymore. UM, We're gonna basically 605 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: settle this case and close this case. After Nixon wins 606 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: the election, and like we said earlier, a couple of 607 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 1: times by landslide. So this is all sort of for 608 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: not anyway, um Gerald. Ford ended up overturning Lennon's deportation 609 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: order in nineteen five that was already filed, and in 610 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: seventy six he got his green card and lived in 611 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 1: New York, very famously in the Dakota for the last 612 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: four years of his life before he was murdered in 613 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: the street. Which I think we should do an episode 614 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: on that at some point, maybe in a couple of years, 615 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 1: once this one is well in the rear view mirror. 616 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,439 Speaker 1: You bet it would be a good one. Um So 617 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 1: if if John Lennon, apparently before he died, he gave 618 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: a couple interviews and he said of this time like 619 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: that it nearly ruined him as an artist, you know, 620 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 1: like you said, he wasn't he wasn't just not sweating it, 621 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: like he sweated it every day. It was a big, 622 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: hairy problem in his life all the time and a 623 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: source of great stress. Um So, in addition to the 624 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: stress that it stole his focus, like it made him 625 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 1: think about that and like how much he hated the 626 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 1: Nixon administration and how terrible the FBI was for how 627 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: they were harassing him and possibly tapping his phone, and 628 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,359 Speaker 1: it just took his mind from his art, and he 629 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: later said that it almost ruined him as an artist 630 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,959 Speaker 1: because the work he was producing at the time was journalism, 631 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: not poetry, as he put it, um which is a 632 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: very sad effect, but it's it's a really real world effect. 633 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: When you've got something just looming in the front of 634 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: your mind that you can't get out of your mind, 635 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: especially if it's dealing with badness, it's that has a 636 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,280 Speaker 1: terrible effect on you and and your life in general. 637 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,879 Speaker 1: It can produce an entire bad period of your life, 638 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, he was like, I had to let 639 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: Yoko sing a lot. I've got I have something I 640 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: have to say. I don't want to forget it. And 641 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 1: one of the FBI notes at that John Sinclair concert, 642 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 1: the FBI informant reported that the song Johnson Claire was 643 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,320 Speaker 1: not up to Lennon's usual standards. And you get this, 644 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 1: Yoko can't even remain on key. That was an FBI informat. Yeah, 645 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: he had a good hear, but you know, I like 646 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: the song. It doesn't like belong up there with his 647 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: greatest songs. But it was very it was very clear. 648 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: It was sort of in the tradition of protest songs. 649 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: It's got this acoustic slide dough Bro guitar and uh, 650 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's sort of it fits in with the 651 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: great folk songs of all time, I think, but not 652 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,800 Speaker 1: necessarily one of the great Lenin or Beatles songs. Is 653 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: it as good as John Henry was a steel driving man. 654 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: I think it's better. I like get better really, Uh yeah, 655 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: And you know, like we mentioned earlier, the reason we 656 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: know all this was because of Wieners reporting and uh 657 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: he eventually got those documents released, and there was you know, 658 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: in his circle, there was a big hubbub like what's 659 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 1: going to be in there? Um, what what secrets or 660 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: will be revealed? And really not much. What was revealed 661 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:32,760 Speaker 1: was um embarrassment for the FBI, embarrassment that they released 662 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,359 Speaker 1: a picture that wasn't even John Lennon, Embarrassment that they 663 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: had a very unethical um and perhaps even illegal um 664 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: motivation behind trying to get uh this person deported and 665 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:46,839 Speaker 1: it was just egg on the face and that's why 666 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: they tried to keep it under wraps for so many 667 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: years hoping that it would not get out, not because 668 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 1: there were some big revealing documents, but they were just like, 669 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,720 Speaker 1: can we just sort of act like this didn't happen. Yeah, 670 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,319 Speaker 1: so we'll we'll classify everything as an national security risk 671 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 1: and they did, and actually that that last trove of documents, 672 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: the little handful that trickled out in two thousand and six, 673 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: was an m I five kind of British Secret Service 674 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 1: UM file on Lennon that the U S said if 675 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 1: they it was that that last bit of document contained 676 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: a file from a foreign government that had trusted the 677 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: US to keep it, and that it could result in economic, 678 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: diplomatic and military action if they were to release it, 679 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: Like the UK was just gonna gonna bomb the US 680 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: for releasing their document or their file on John Lennon. 681 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,280 Speaker 1: That's why the FBI held onto it until two thousand 682 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: and six, and then they lost a court case. So like, 683 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: if there's a hero of the story, it's John Weener 684 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: or John Weiner, I don't know how he says his name, 685 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,359 Speaker 1: And I'm sorry either way, because he was the one 686 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: that really stood up not just for John Lennon, but 687 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 1: for the First Amendment, you know, and people's ability to 688 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: be politically active without you know, the threat being intimidated. Um, 689 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,919 Speaker 1: so good for him, totally. Uh, you got anything else 690 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 1: about this? Got nothing else? I have an article to 691 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: direct everybody too, is on pop Matters, John Lennon Colon 692 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 1: revolutionary man as political artist, and it's about all this 693 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 1: sorry history, but also just a pretty good critical evaluation 694 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 1: of him as an activist. And and it's just a 695 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 1: really good interesting article. So check it out. And since 696 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,360 Speaker 1: I said check it out, everybody, it's time for a 697 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:39,440 Speaker 1: listener mail. This is in reference of our haunted real estate. 698 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 1: I guess that was a short stuff, right, had to be. Yeah, yeah, 699 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,439 Speaker 1: it was like, please tell me we didn't do forty 700 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: five minutes on that. We could have. Hey, guys, been 701 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: a listener for years and finally have a good reason 702 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 1: to write you. I was listening to the episode on 703 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: whether You're supposed to disclose whether a house is haunted 704 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 1: or not, and to hit close to home. Two years ago, 705 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,439 Speaker 1: we bought our first house and I made a point 706 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: to run a report to see if anyone died in 707 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: the house. The previous owner had just died within the year, 708 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: but it didn't say where. I wasn't really worried about 709 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: someone actually dying in the house. I was really just 710 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: trying to get a big discount. However, the agent said 711 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: he didn't know, so no big discount. Cut to two 712 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: years later, I found out for neighbors and research that 713 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,840 Speaker 1: the previous owner did not die. However, he was a 714 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,400 Speaker 1: creep who actually had multiple abuse charges. In fact, I 715 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,320 Speaker 1: found an article stating that he had a woman tied 716 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: up in our basement, man who he tortured until she 717 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 1: was luckily able to escape for weeks. That's like almost 718 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 1: worse than just a regular somebody dying of natural causes. 719 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 1: It's a million times worth. Well, no, I was about 720 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 1: to say, worse than a murder. I guess they're on bar. Yeah, well, 721 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 1: let's debate that at point. I don't want to. I 722 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: don't want to rank awful crimes, but I think that 723 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 1: might creep me out just as much. Let's just say 724 00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,360 Speaker 1: that the police searched the house and found oodles of weapons. 725 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,880 Speaker 1: The charges were eventually dropped. Apparently he had money and 726 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: he redid the entire basement, which is beyond creepy. I 727 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: don't know if this qualifies as info that should have 728 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: been provided to us at purchase. But it sure seems 729 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:17,359 Speaker 1: like it. Huh that is from Andy? Andy? I okay, Well, 730 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: thanks a lot. Andy. Is is there a heart over 731 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: the eye? Uh No, but it's typed is it? Um? 732 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,280 Speaker 1: It could be uh Andy McDowell. I think she spelled 733 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: her name like that. I can see something like this 734 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: happening to any McDowell came. Well, whether it's from Andy 735 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 1: McDowell or not, we appreciate the email. UM, thank you, 736 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 1: and yes, I agree. I think the realtors should have 737 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: disclosed that if you asked me totally. If you want 738 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,760 Speaker 1: to let us know about some way a realtor wronged 739 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,399 Speaker 1: you or anybody did we want to hear about it, 740 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: you can send us an email to stuff podcast at 741 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 1: iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a 742 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my 743 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, and 744 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:12,320 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. M h m 745 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:12,719 Speaker 1: hm