1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:24,596 Speaker 1: Bushkin. It was March fourth, two thousand and two, fewer 2 00:00:24,636 --> 00:00:27,716 Speaker 1: than six months after the World Trade Centers fell. The 3 00:00:27,756 --> 00:00:30,156 Speaker 1: sun was rising on a bleak and snowy mountaintop in 4 00:00:30,196 --> 00:00:33,756 Speaker 1: eastern Afghanistan. It was a little after six in the morning, 5 00:00:34,276 --> 00:00:38,756 Speaker 1: and Air Force technical Sergeant John Chapman was alone in 6 00:00:38,956 --> 00:00:43,876 Speaker 1: enemy territory, bleeding to death. He had been shot, he 7 00:00:43,956 --> 00:00:46,876 Speaker 1: was losing strength, he was low in ammunition, and it 8 00:00:46,956 --> 00:00:51,276 Speaker 1: was bitterly brutally cold. For hours in the dark, it 9 00:00:51,356 --> 00:00:56,556 Speaker 1: faced off against Taliban and al Qaeda militants. He was outnumbered, outgunned, 10 00:00:56,676 --> 00:00:59,476 Speaker 1: but he fought on it killed at least five men, 11 00:00:59,716 --> 00:01:02,476 Speaker 1: one in hand to hand combat, and he was fending 12 00:01:02,516 --> 00:01:05,316 Speaker 1: off the rest from the relative safety of a makeshift 13 00:01:05,316 --> 00:01:08,636 Speaker 1: bunker basically just a shallow trench dug at the base 14 00:01:08,676 --> 00:01:11,756 Speaker 1: of a tree, keeping his head down, trying to survive 15 00:01:11,836 --> 00:01:17,956 Speaker 1: until reinforcements would arrive, he hoped. Suddenly, the unmistakable sound 16 00:01:17,996 --> 00:01:21,116 Speaker 1: of a helicopter filled the air. A black Chinook appeared 17 00:01:21,116 --> 00:01:24,716 Speaker 1: on the horizon. Back up was finally here, but Chapman 18 00:01:24,956 --> 00:01:27,716 Speaker 1: had seen what happened to helicopters had tried to land 19 00:01:27,756 --> 00:01:31,196 Speaker 1: on this mountain. The two previous ones, including the one 20 00:01:31,196 --> 00:01:33,996 Speaker 1: that brought him here, had been hit hard by enemy fire. 21 00:01:34,676 --> 00:01:37,996 Speaker 1: He knew the men on that helicopter might die unless 22 00:01:38,796 --> 00:01:42,876 Speaker 1: he could do something. He had two options, stay where 23 00:01:42,916 --> 00:01:47,996 Speaker 1: he was not exactly safe but safer, or he could 24 00:01:48,076 --> 00:01:51,076 Speaker 1: venture out into the open to try and provide covering 25 00:01:51,116 --> 00:01:54,116 Speaker 1: fire for the helicopter to try and save those men. 26 00:01:55,236 --> 00:01:58,276 Speaker 1: The snow around him was drenched in blood, his and 27 00:01:58,316 --> 00:02:02,636 Speaker 1: the man he'd killed. He shouldered his assault rifle, and then, 28 00:02:03,236 --> 00:02:05,716 Speaker 1: looking out into the thin light of the morning sun, 29 00:02:06,756 --> 00:02:12,196 Speaker 1: he stood up. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, and this is Medal 30 00:02:12,196 --> 00:02:15,636 Speaker 1: of Honor Stories of Courage. The Medal of Honor is 31 00:02:15,636 --> 00:02:19,476 Speaker 1: the highest military decoration in the United States, awarded for 32 00:02:19,956 --> 00:02:23,356 Speaker 1: gallantry and bravery in combat at the risk of life, 33 00:02:23,636 --> 00:02:27,516 Speaker 1: above and beyond the call of duty. Each candidate must 34 00:02:27,596 --> 00:02:30,076 Speaker 1: be approved all the way up the chain of command, 35 00:02:30,356 --> 00:02:33,796 Speaker 1: from the supervisory officer in the field to the White House. 36 00:02:34,676 --> 00:02:38,676 Speaker 1: This show is about those heroes, what they did, what 37 00:02:38,796 --> 00:02:41,916 Speaker 1: it meant, and what their stories tell us about the 38 00:02:41,996 --> 00:02:46,716 Speaker 1: nature of courage and sacrifice. John Chapman's story is the 39 00:02:46,796 --> 00:02:49,276 Speaker 1: last one we will tell this season, and more than 40 00:02:49,316 --> 00:02:52,396 Speaker 1: any other, it tells us why the Medal of Honor 41 00:02:52,476 --> 00:02:57,316 Speaker 1: is so important. It's the story that reveals an essential truth. 42 00:02:58,036 --> 00:03:02,276 Speaker 1: The medal isn't really for the recipients themselves. Those heroes 43 00:03:02,596 --> 00:03:04,836 Speaker 1: would insist that their acts of bravery don't need an 44 00:03:04,836 --> 00:03:09,116 Speaker 1: audience or accolades. They would say, as doctor Mary Walker famous, 45 00:03:09,196 --> 00:03:12,836 Speaker 1: he did, I could not do otherwise. It's not for them. 46 00:03:13,756 --> 00:03:16,116 Speaker 1: The medal of Honor is for the rest of us, 47 00:03:16,756 --> 00:03:20,636 Speaker 1: to remind us of our human capacity for bravery and 48 00:03:20,716 --> 00:03:24,476 Speaker 1: self sacrifice, and to show us that even if those 49 00:03:24,516 --> 00:03:29,636 Speaker 1: acts of courage are unseen, invisible to others, they still matter. 50 00:03:30,596 --> 00:03:46,596 Speaker 1: They maybe even matter more. When John Chapman was growing 51 00:03:46,676 --> 00:03:50,276 Speaker 1: up in the little town of Windsorlocks, Connecticut, his mom, Terry, 52 00:03:50,356 --> 00:03:54,516 Speaker 1: noticed something different about him. He was, even as a kid, 53 00:03:54,956 --> 00:03:57,076 Speaker 1: strangely attuned to other people. 54 00:03:57,716 --> 00:04:01,196 Speaker 2: He was born with this ability to sense people's feelings 55 00:04:01,236 --> 00:04:04,676 Speaker 2: or sense when people were in need of help. He 56 00:04:04,756 --> 00:04:09,236 Speaker 2: always put others before himself. He felt that that's that's 57 00:04:09,236 --> 00:04:09,876 Speaker 2: the right thing to do. 58 00:04:10,996 --> 00:04:14,036 Speaker 1: John was a standout athlete, a soccer star, and a 59 00:04:14,076 --> 00:04:17,796 Speaker 1: state champion diver. A well loved kid with an easy laugh, 60 00:04:18,436 --> 00:04:21,036 Speaker 1: square jawed and handsome, he could have been the worst 61 00:04:21,116 --> 00:04:23,996 Speaker 1: kind of popular high school boy, but John had a 62 00:04:23,996 --> 00:04:27,396 Speaker 1: distaste for social clicks and bullies. He had a way 63 00:04:27,436 --> 00:04:31,236 Speaker 1: of making other people feel comfortable and to drive to 64 00:04:31,276 --> 00:04:34,196 Speaker 1: push himself hard to do good in the world. 65 00:04:34,796 --> 00:04:38,116 Speaker 2: His senior year book quote was give up yourself before 66 00:04:38,156 --> 00:04:39,076 Speaker 2: taking of others. 67 00:04:40,356 --> 00:04:42,556 Speaker 1: He went to college for a semester, but it was 68 00:04:42,596 --> 00:04:45,916 Speaker 1: clear he wanted a different kind of challenge. He dropped 69 00:04:45,916 --> 00:04:49,596 Speaker 1: out and repaired cars while he fixated on his next step, 70 00:04:50,156 --> 00:04:53,596 Speaker 1: joining the Air Force. Within a few years of enlisting, 71 00:04:53,796 --> 00:04:57,036 Speaker 1: he had another higher goal. He wanted to become a 72 00:04:57,156 --> 00:05:04,236 Speaker 1: combat controller. Combat controllers, or CCTs are battlefield experts who 73 00:05:04,276 --> 00:05:07,196 Speaker 1: in bed with the lead forces, the Navy Seals or 74 00:05:07,236 --> 00:05:10,356 Speaker 1: the Army rangers and call in air strikes from the field. 75 00:05:11,076 --> 00:05:13,996 Speaker 1: It's a key role in any dangerous mission, going into 76 00:05:13,996 --> 00:05:16,796 Speaker 1: a combat zone and working as an on the ground 77 00:05:16,916 --> 00:05:21,036 Speaker 1: air traffic controller triangulating bombers and drones under the most 78 00:05:21,036 --> 00:05:26,596 Speaker 1: intense pressure. CCTs go through grueling months of training, not 79 00:05:26,916 --> 00:05:29,636 Speaker 1: just for the technical skills they need, but also to 80 00:05:29,716 --> 00:05:34,836 Speaker 1: prepare for every kind of hostile environment. They learned combat diving, 81 00:05:35,316 --> 00:05:40,076 Speaker 1: wilderness survival, any special tactic you can imagine only a 82 00:05:40,116 --> 00:05:44,276 Speaker 1: small percentage make it through. The few who succeed are 83 00:05:44,316 --> 00:05:49,636 Speaker 1: ready to deploy undetected to establish assault zones behind enemy lines. 84 00:05:50,236 --> 00:05:54,956 Speaker 1: Their motto is first there. Of the one hundred and 85 00:05:54,956 --> 00:05:57,716 Speaker 1: twenty men who signed up for training when John did, 86 00:05:58,036 --> 00:06:03,236 Speaker 1: only two became CCTs. John, of course, was one of 87 00:06:03,276 --> 00:06:07,956 Speaker 1: those two, and soon thereafter he qualified for the twenty 88 00:06:07,956 --> 00:06:12,316 Speaker 1: fourth Special Tactic Squadron, the most elite of the elite 89 00:06:12,956 --> 00:06:16,636 Speaker 1: of the Air Force. At the same time as John 90 00:06:16,676 --> 00:06:19,676 Speaker 1: was honing his lethal skills at work, he was creating 91 00:06:19,716 --> 00:06:22,556 Speaker 1: a safe haven of a home life in a small 92 00:06:22,596 --> 00:06:26,396 Speaker 1: house in North Carolina with his wife, Valerie, and two 93 00:06:26,476 --> 00:06:32,356 Speaker 1: little girls, Madison and Brianna. Valerie remembers how all in 94 00:06:32,516 --> 00:06:33,436 Speaker 1: he was as a father. 95 00:06:34,116 --> 00:06:35,756 Speaker 3: You didn't know if he just came off a training mission, 96 00:06:35,796 --> 00:06:38,196 Speaker 3: and you know, he'd walks the door and he was daddy. 97 00:06:38,316 --> 00:06:41,436 Speaker 3: He was bathing the girls, playing barbie dolls with them, 98 00:06:41,476 --> 00:06:44,156 Speaker 3: reading them bedtime stories he used to love. 99 00:06:44,236 --> 00:06:44,396 Speaker 1: You know. 100 00:06:44,396 --> 00:06:45,996 Speaker 3: After the bath, he'd wrap them up in a towel 101 00:06:46,116 --> 00:06:48,636 Speaker 3: and swing them and throw them onto the couch. And 102 00:06:48,756 --> 00:06:51,916 Speaker 3: he was just fully present hundred percent of the time. 103 00:06:52,236 --> 00:06:54,076 Speaker 3: I mean, you never would know what he was trained to. 104 00:06:54,076 --> 00:06:57,316 Speaker 1: Do what he was trained to do, of course, was 105 00:06:57,476 --> 00:07:00,196 Speaker 1: annihilate the enemy. But for a while in the late 106 00:07:00,316 --> 00:07:03,516 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties, it looked like he might not put those 107 00:07:03,556 --> 00:07:06,796 Speaker 1: skills to the test in an American war. By the 108 00:07:06,796 --> 00:07:11,116 Speaker 1: age of thirty six, John and realized he might never 109 00:07:11,156 --> 00:07:16,236 Speaker 1: go to battle. Then came nine to eleven. We all 110 00:07:16,276 --> 00:07:18,156 Speaker 1: remember watching it on the news that day. 111 00:07:18,476 --> 00:07:22,156 Speaker 4: And you can see the two towers, a huge explosion 112 00:07:22,236 --> 00:07:24,876 Speaker 4: now raiding to pray on all of us, we never get. 113 00:07:24,716 --> 00:07:25,236 Speaker 3: Out of the bank. 114 00:07:25,836 --> 00:07:30,476 Speaker 5: The unthinkable happened today the World Trade Center, both towers gone, 115 00:07:30,516 --> 00:07:32,716 Speaker 5: and we are all witnesses to it, and to some 116 00:07:32,756 --> 00:07:33,996 Speaker 5: degree we are all victims. 117 00:07:34,076 --> 00:07:36,836 Speaker 6: This conflict was begun on the timing in terms of others. 118 00:07:37,636 --> 00:07:39,956 Speaker 7: It will end in a way, and at an hour 119 00:07:40,956 --> 00:07:41,676 Speaker 7: of our choosing. 120 00:07:42,916 --> 00:07:47,396 Speaker 1: The first major American military operation in Afghanistan took place 121 00:07:47,436 --> 00:07:50,836 Speaker 1: in March of two thousand and two in the Shycote Valley, 122 00:07:51,116 --> 00:07:55,916 Speaker 1: a roughly sixty square mile area ringed with rocky, snowcapped mountains. 123 00:07:56,716 --> 00:08:00,956 Speaker 1: The US forces called it Operation Anaconda because the idea 124 00:08:01,076 --> 00:08:04,396 Speaker 1: was to squeeze the joint Taliban and Al Kaeda forces 125 00:08:04,476 --> 00:08:09,076 Speaker 1: in the valley, but the situation was more treacherous than anticipated. 126 00:08:09,636 --> 00:08:13,476 Speaker 1: The terrain was difficult, the snow waist deep, the weather 127 00:08:13,676 --> 00:08:18,116 Speaker 1: unimaginably cold, and the enemy almost tripled the size expected. 128 00:08:18,556 --> 00:08:22,716 Speaker 1: Well armed, well trained, and dug into the higher elevations. 129 00:08:23,316 --> 00:08:27,756 Speaker 1: Even history was on Afghanistan's side. Afghan fighters in this 130 00:08:27,916 --> 00:08:32,156 Speaker 1: valley had battled back invading forces for two thousand years, 131 00:08:32,636 --> 00:08:37,196 Speaker 1: from Alexander the Great to the Soviet Army. On the 132 00:08:37,276 --> 00:08:40,916 Speaker 1: night of March fourth, a group of Navy seals sealed 133 00:08:40,916 --> 00:08:43,516 Speaker 1: to him six which would famously go on to kill 134 00:08:43,556 --> 00:08:47,036 Speaker 1: Osama bin Lauden. Ready to enter the fight, they were 135 00:08:47,076 --> 00:08:50,916 Speaker 1: led by a quiet and wiry senior chief named Britt Slabinsky. 136 00:08:51,716 --> 00:08:55,716 Speaker 1: Their combat controller was John Chapman. The two men had 137 00:08:55,796 --> 00:08:58,876 Speaker 1: worked together since the previous October, and John and the 138 00:08:58,916 --> 00:09:03,396 Speaker 1: seals were a well integrated team, all more than ready 139 00:09:03,396 --> 00:09:06,436 Speaker 1: to get into the action. They'd been waiting in Afghanistan 140 00:09:06,876 --> 00:09:10,076 Speaker 1: for over a month by now. Their mission was to 141 00:09:10,116 --> 00:09:13,196 Speaker 1: go to a mountain called Takergar on the southern side 142 00:09:13,196 --> 00:09:15,956 Speaker 1: of the shy Coote Valley and secure an area of 143 00:09:15,996 --> 00:09:19,196 Speaker 1: operations from which they could call in air strikes on 144 00:09:19,476 --> 00:09:23,276 Speaker 1: enemy forces. They would do this under the cover of darkness, 145 00:09:24,036 --> 00:09:26,276 Speaker 1: fly by helicopter to the base of the mountain in 146 00:09:26,356 --> 00:09:30,036 Speaker 1: the middle of the night, then stealthily ascend to the 147 00:09:30,076 --> 00:09:33,396 Speaker 1: ten thousand foot summit, giving them a chance to see 148 00:09:33,516 --> 00:09:38,116 Speaker 1: exactly what they were up against before anyone noticed them. 149 00:09:38,556 --> 00:09:42,196 Speaker 1: But that tightly formulated plan was about to hit some 150 00:09:42,356 --> 00:09:48,596 Speaker 1: insurmountable obstacles. First, the helicopter they were supposed to use 151 00:09:48,636 --> 00:09:51,756 Speaker 1: that night had a faulty engine. The team had to 152 00:09:51,796 --> 00:09:55,796 Speaker 1: call in a replacement, costing precious time. It became clear 153 00:09:55,836 --> 00:09:58,196 Speaker 1: to his Slebinski that if they hiked to the top 154 00:09:58,236 --> 00:10:01,516 Speaker 1: of the mountainous planned, they would arrive after the sun 155 00:10:01,556 --> 00:10:06,556 Speaker 1: of prison too exposed, too dangerous, so he asked command 156 00:10:06,876 --> 00:10:10,876 Speaker 1: if he could delay the mission for twenty four Their 157 00:10:10,996 --> 00:10:16,756 Speaker 1: quest was denied. Instead, it was decided that their helicopter 158 00:10:16,796 --> 00:10:20,276 Speaker 1: would land at the top of Takogar rather than the base, 159 00:10:21,076 --> 00:10:24,796 Speaker 1: announcing themselves instantly to anyone who happened to be on 160 00:10:24,796 --> 00:10:27,916 Speaker 1: the mountain. They didn't know exactly what was up there, 161 00:10:28,116 --> 00:10:30,716 Speaker 1: but they knew they were enemy soldiers on many of 162 00:10:30,756 --> 00:10:35,876 Speaker 1: those mountains, and those soldiers were ready to fight. But 163 00:10:35,996 --> 00:10:40,076 Speaker 1: an order was an order, So at two fifty five am, 164 00:10:40,316 --> 00:10:43,876 Speaker 1: the team loaded into a Chinook helicopter and headed for 165 00:10:43,916 --> 00:10:48,276 Speaker 1: the peak. Here's Slabinsky remembering. 166 00:10:48,436 --> 00:10:53,076 Speaker 7: Soon as we landed, our helicopter came under rocket RPG, 167 00:10:53,236 --> 00:10:56,476 Speaker 7: rocket prolgrenade fire, and heavy machine got fire. 168 00:10:57,316 --> 00:11:01,036 Speaker 1: Another combat controller, Jay Hill, was on a different mountain, 169 00:11:01,316 --> 00:11:04,236 Speaker 1: just a few kilometers away, with a view of Takagar. 170 00:11:04,796 --> 00:11:07,596 Speaker 1: He watched as a Chinook carrying the Seals and John 171 00:11:08,076 --> 00:11:12,116 Speaker 1: was hit with a rocket propelled grenade, then another and another, 172 00:11:12,556 --> 00:11:14,196 Speaker 1: screaming through the night sky. 173 00:11:14,516 --> 00:11:15,956 Speaker 7: And as soon as it sat down on top of 174 00:11:15,956 --> 00:11:19,996 Speaker 7: the mountain top, we saw the RPG strike the aircraft. 175 00:11:20,476 --> 00:11:23,556 Speaker 6: In the aircraft move towards the valley. 176 00:11:24,436 --> 00:11:27,876 Speaker 1: Slabinsky realized they were in deep trouble and ordered the 177 00:11:27,876 --> 00:11:32,276 Speaker 1: helicopter to retreat. But as the damage Chinnook lifted off again, 178 00:11:32,756 --> 00:11:35,636 Speaker 1: it started shaking and rolling, and a member of his 179 00:11:35,716 --> 00:11:39,796 Speaker 1: seal team, Petty Officer Neil Roberts, lost his footing and 180 00:11:39,916 --> 00:11:44,236 Speaker 1: slid down the open ramp into the darkness and onto 181 00:11:44,316 --> 00:11:45,756 Speaker 1: the snowy peak of Takragar. 182 00:11:46,876 --> 00:11:49,476 Speaker 7: I knew Neil was in trouble. I knew he was 183 00:11:49,556 --> 00:11:52,316 Speaker 7: in the midst of the enemy and numerically superior force 184 00:11:52,796 --> 00:11:55,996 Speaker 7: they had me out gunned. They were at extreme altitudes, 185 00:11:56,036 --> 00:12:00,156 Speaker 7: we were in extreme temperatures and pretty much opering at 186 00:12:00,196 --> 00:12:03,356 Speaker 7: the extreme end of all aircraft capabilities. 187 00:12:03,916 --> 00:12:06,116 Speaker 1: But the Seals, of course have a motto leave no 188 00:12:06,236 --> 00:12:09,036 Speaker 1: man behind. So as soon as the mangled Chinnook save 189 00:12:09,396 --> 00:12:12,636 Speaker 1: crash landed, Slabinsky and the team started making plans to 190 00:12:12,676 --> 00:12:16,956 Speaker 1: go back and get Roberts. Knowing what awaited them at. 191 00:12:16,876 --> 00:12:20,596 Speaker 7: The top of Takagar, I made the decision that we're 192 00:12:20,596 --> 00:12:23,796 Speaker 7: going to make an immediate rescue attempt to go back 193 00:12:23,836 --> 00:12:24,476 Speaker 7: and get Neil. 194 00:12:25,836 --> 00:12:28,836 Speaker 1: John Chapman was all in. He didn't have to go back, 195 00:12:29,236 --> 00:12:31,716 Speaker 1: but he was part of the team. He wouldn't think 196 00:12:31,716 --> 00:12:36,156 Speaker 1: of staying behind. Chief Master Sergeant Rob Harrison was there 197 00:12:36,316 --> 00:12:39,876 Speaker 1: as part of a gunship crew providing reconnaissance and air strikes. 198 00:12:40,236 --> 00:12:43,076 Speaker 1: Like all the men, he knew how dangerous this mission 199 00:12:43,116 --> 00:12:43,476 Speaker 1: would be. 200 00:12:44,156 --> 00:12:45,996 Speaker 4: These guys knew that they were going right back into 201 00:12:45,996 --> 00:12:48,556 Speaker 4: the same spot that their original aircraft was shot up 202 00:12:48,796 --> 00:12:50,636 Speaker 4: and they lost a teammate out of the back end 203 00:12:50,636 --> 00:12:54,716 Speaker 4: of the helicopter. So these guys, they knew what risk 204 00:12:54,836 --> 00:12:57,716 Speaker 4: they were facing, and they charged right back in there 205 00:12:57,796 --> 00:12:59,036 Speaker 4: to save one of their very own. 206 00:12:59,996 --> 00:13:03,396 Speaker 1: By now it was four thirty five am, still dark, 207 00:13:03,756 --> 00:13:07,156 Speaker 1: but not for long. The seals in John were outfitted 208 00:13:07,356 --> 00:13:11,076 Speaker 1: with night vision goggles for red strobe lights and laser 209 00:13:11,116 --> 00:13:14,596 Speaker 1: sights on their rifles, Otherwise they would be completing this 210 00:13:14,676 --> 00:13:19,236 Speaker 1: mission in total darkness, another dangerous layer to an already 211 00:13:19,316 --> 00:13:23,116 Speaker 1: lethal errand. As the new helicopter rose into the frigid 212 00:13:23,196 --> 00:13:27,596 Speaker 1: night sky, Slabinsky felt the enormity of what was ahead 213 00:13:27,596 --> 00:13:27,876 Speaker 1: of them. 214 00:13:28,436 --> 00:13:31,636 Speaker 7: I remember got my night vision goggles on and everything's 215 00:13:31,676 --> 00:13:34,116 Speaker 7: green looking through my goggles to stick my head, but 216 00:13:34,316 --> 00:13:37,316 Speaker 7: have outside the aircraft to look at my mouth coming 217 00:13:37,396 --> 00:13:41,476 Speaker 7: up that I'm getting ready to go fight on. And 218 00:13:41,556 --> 00:13:43,116 Speaker 7: I'm looking at it and I'm like, Wow, what a 219 00:13:43,156 --> 00:13:47,236 Speaker 7: majestic mountain. This thing looks like. Ah, And now what 220 00:13:47,396 --> 00:13:50,476 Speaker 7: a crazy thought about what we're a ready getting to 221 00:13:50,516 --> 00:13:52,036 Speaker 7: go do looking at this thing. 222 00:13:52,836 --> 00:13:56,356 Speaker 1: The helicopter didn't have enough fuel for a reconnaissance pass 223 00:13:56,396 --> 00:13:59,196 Speaker 1: over the mountain, and they couldn't drop mortars on the 224 00:13:59,236 --> 00:14:02,476 Speaker 1: waiting enemy for fear of harming Roberts. They would just 225 00:14:02,556 --> 00:14:06,356 Speaker 1: have to go in themselves. Six men on the mountain 226 00:14:06,636 --> 00:14:09,676 Speaker 1: and above them an air Force gunship ready a fire 227 00:14:09,796 --> 00:14:13,076 Speaker 1: on the enemy. Once John gave the call, plus a 228 00:14:13,196 --> 00:14:18,956 Speaker 1: US Predator drone silently recording the action. As the Chinook landed, 229 00:14:19,196 --> 00:14:22,556 Speaker 1: it was immediately slammed by enemy fire, just as the 230 00:14:22,596 --> 00:14:26,276 Speaker 1: first helicopter had been, but this time the seals in 231 00:14:26,396 --> 00:14:29,436 Speaker 1: John dove off the chopper into the knee deep snow. 232 00:14:30,636 --> 00:14:33,796 Speaker 1: Over the roar of the helicopter's rotors, they could hear 233 00:14:33,836 --> 00:14:35,676 Speaker 1: the sound of enemy machine guns. 234 00:14:36,516 --> 00:14:39,796 Speaker 7: I asked John, say, John, what do you have? He said, 235 00:14:40,036 --> 00:14:42,836 Speaker 7: you know, I don't know. And then right away we 236 00:14:42,916 --> 00:14:47,716 Speaker 7: started taking heavy fire from a bunker that was right 237 00:14:47,756 --> 00:14:48,516 Speaker 7: in front of us. 238 00:14:49,076 --> 00:14:51,516 Speaker 1: John could see that the enemy had the advantage of 239 00:14:51,516 --> 00:14:54,756 Speaker 1: the high ground and positions that were dug into the rocky, 240 00:14:54,956 --> 00:15:00,076 Speaker 1: snowy terrain. Even without night vision goggles, enemy soldiers would 241 00:15:00,076 --> 00:15:01,916 Speaker 1: be able to pick off the members of his team. 242 00:15:02,316 --> 00:15:05,036 Speaker 1: John needed a protected spot to set up his gear 243 00:15:05,436 --> 00:15:08,916 Speaker 1: and call in airstrikes. He decided that he had to 244 00:15:08,916 --> 00:15:12,316 Speaker 1: get to the bunker and clear it, whatever the cost. 245 00:15:13,276 --> 00:15:17,156 Speaker 1: So John didn't hesitate. He ran uphill towards the bunker, 246 00:15:17,316 --> 00:15:21,076 Speaker 1: which was dug underneath a solitary tree. His heart was 247 00:15:21,116 --> 00:15:24,796 Speaker 1: pounding in the thin atmosphere. He held his MFOL rifle 248 00:15:24,796 --> 00:15:29,556 Speaker 1: against his shoulder, firing and firing again. He was first 249 00:15:29,636 --> 00:15:33,356 Speaker 1: up the mountain through the blackness into the fire, breaking 250 00:15:33,396 --> 00:15:36,636 Speaker 1: a trail to the heavy inches of snow, never looking back. 251 00:15:37,436 --> 00:15:39,396 Speaker 1: Slabinski followed behind. 252 00:15:40,476 --> 00:15:42,916 Speaker 7: As I look around, there's all these all these mozo 253 00:15:42,956 --> 00:15:45,756 Speaker 7: flashes from everywhere, and I'm thinking there's a lot of 254 00:15:45,756 --> 00:15:48,836 Speaker 7: people up here. There's well, it's snapping by our heads, 255 00:15:48,876 --> 00:15:52,396 Speaker 7: like little snapping, and you can see puffs of snow 256 00:15:52,476 --> 00:15:53,596 Speaker 7: coming up all around us. 257 00:15:54,356 --> 00:15:57,876 Speaker 1: Inside the makeshift bunker, two fighters sat in the dark. 258 00:15:58,356 --> 00:16:02,036 Speaker 1: John materialized out of the night and shot them both. 259 00:16:02,876 --> 00:16:06,636 Speaker 1: Slabinski joined him in the bunker. It provided some shelter, 260 00:16:07,076 --> 00:16:09,836 Speaker 1: but shots were still blazing in from a second bunker 261 00:16:10,236 --> 00:16:13,276 Speaker 1: twenty five feet away, strafing the two men and the 262 00:16:13,316 --> 00:16:17,556 Speaker 1: four other seals on the mountain. Both John and Slabinsky 263 00:16:17,756 --> 00:16:21,356 Speaker 1: fired back, centering the laser points of their rifles on 264 00:16:21,436 --> 00:16:24,676 Speaker 1: the muzzle flashes they saw in the darkness. Moving out 265 00:16:24,676 --> 00:16:28,796 Speaker 1: of the bunker to expose themselves to danger again and again. 266 00:16:29,996 --> 00:16:34,836 Speaker 1: Above them, that predator drone hovered invisible. Its pilot was 267 00:16:34,876 --> 00:16:37,996 Speaker 1: fifteen hundred miles away. His role was to watch what 268 00:16:38,076 --> 00:16:40,756 Speaker 1: was happening on the mountain and report what he saw 269 00:16:40,836 --> 00:16:44,476 Speaker 1: to the gunship crew. The footage was grainy, just the 270 00:16:44,516 --> 00:16:48,156 Speaker 1: heat signatures of bodies moving through space. The pilot couldn't 271 00:16:48,156 --> 00:16:50,596 Speaker 1: tell who was who, but the drone had captured the 272 00:16:50,636 --> 00:16:53,716 Speaker 1: shapes of the men as they had exited the helicopter 273 00:16:54,276 --> 00:16:58,516 Speaker 1: as they engaged the enemy. A silent witness to what 274 00:16:58,556 --> 00:17:03,716 Speaker 1: was happening on Taka Gar Now just outside the bunker, 275 00:17:04,196 --> 00:17:08,076 Speaker 1: an al Qaeda fighter charged to John from the right, firing. 276 00:17:08,636 --> 00:17:11,836 Speaker 1: John went towards him out of the bunker. He shot 277 00:17:11,836 --> 00:17:15,196 Speaker 1: his rifle and the fighter fell. But before John could 278 00:17:15,236 --> 00:17:18,876 Speaker 1: sight another target, the sound of machine gun fire caught 279 00:17:18,916 --> 00:17:23,116 Speaker 1: the darkness. John was thrown backwards into the snow, shot 280 00:17:23,156 --> 00:17:27,716 Speaker 1: twice in the torso. For Britz Slabinski, it was becoming 281 00:17:27,796 --> 00:17:31,076 Speaker 1: clear that the mission's goal had to change. He had 282 00:17:31,116 --> 00:17:33,676 Speaker 1: come to save one man, and now it seemed like 283 00:17:33,716 --> 00:17:36,876 Speaker 1: he had lost another. He knew John was down. He 284 00:17:36,916 --> 00:17:39,436 Speaker 1: was lying ten feet away outside of the bunker, but 285 00:17:39,476 --> 00:17:43,516 Speaker 1: Slebinsky could see the laser of John's rifle pointing against 286 00:17:43,556 --> 00:17:48,076 Speaker 1: the tree, rising and falling with his breath, and then 287 00:17:48,676 --> 00:17:53,956 Speaker 1: John's laser stopped moving. Slobinsky concluded he must be dead. 288 00:17:55,236 --> 00:17:58,116 Speaker 1: In the meantime, the other seals were getting picked off 289 00:17:58,116 --> 00:18:00,876 Speaker 1: in the dark, two of them seriously wounded. They had 290 00:18:00,916 --> 00:18:04,916 Speaker 1: to retreat or Slobinsky was sure they would all end 291 00:18:04,996 --> 00:18:05,676 Speaker 1: up like John. 292 00:18:06,556 --> 00:18:08,556 Speaker 7: I look around at all my guys again and I 293 00:18:08,596 --> 00:18:10,916 Speaker 7: see there still heavy amounts of fire come in. I 294 00:18:10,996 --> 00:18:13,796 Speaker 7: look over at John. I'm seeing no movement from John. 295 00:18:13,876 --> 00:18:17,116 Speaker 7: And I realized that because we're out in the open 296 00:18:17,996 --> 00:18:21,156 Speaker 7: life expectancy now, it's going to be measured, probably in second. 297 00:18:21,236 --> 00:18:23,116 Speaker 7: So I make the command that we're going to reposition 298 00:18:23,196 --> 00:18:25,956 Speaker 7: my force just over the side of the cliff. 299 00:18:26,596 --> 00:18:30,596 Speaker 1: The five remaining seals huddled together then retreated as quickly 300 00:18:30,636 --> 00:18:33,676 Speaker 1: as they could, sliding down the snow and over the 301 00:18:33,716 --> 00:18:36,516 Speaker 1: side of the ridge. They would group further down the 302 00:18:36,516 --> 00:18:40,956 Speaker 1: mountain and call for reinforcements. It was five ten am, 303 00:18:40,996 --> 00:18:44,556 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes into the mission. As soon as the sun rose, 304 00:18:44,996 --> 00:18:47,996 Speaker 1: they would be in even more trouble, no longer able 305 00:18:48,036 --> 00:18:52,716 Speaker 1: to hide in the dark. The Predator drone still harbored above. 306 00:18:52,996 --> 00:18:55,156 Speaker 1: On his screen, its pilot could see the shape of 307 00:18:55,156 --> 00:18:58,196 Speaker 1: a still warm body under a tree. He watched as 308 00:18:58,196 --> 00:19:01,676 Speaker 1: another group of figures came together below the bunker and 309 00:19:01,716 --> 00:19:05,476 Speaker 1: then dropped one by one down the snowy ledge pick 310 00:19:05,556 --> 00:19:10,396 Speaker 1: slated shapes moving in the pre dawn night. John Chapman 311 00:19:10,596 --> 00:19:12,596 Speaker 1: had rushed to the bunker to save the seals on 312 00:19:12,716 --> 00:19:15,876 Speaker 1: his team. Now he lay motionless and alone in the snow. 313 00:19:16,876 --> 00:19:19,156 Speaker 1: For a moment, everything was quiet at the peak of 314 00:19:19,236 --> 00:19:24,556 Speaker 1: Taco Gar, a freezing wind, a silent predator drone overhead. 315 00:19:25,716 --> 00:19:29,436 Speaker 1: But just five minutes later something changed. Back at the 316 00:19:29,436 --> 00:19:33,476 Speaker 1: peak where those two bunkers were, the drone picked up movement. 317 00:19:33,876 --> 00:19:37,156 Speaker 4: The main element had withdrawn a couple hundred meters, but 318 00:19:37,396 --> 00:19:40,356 Speaker 4: all of a sudden, at the original point there was 319 00:19:40,396 --> 00:19:41,836 Speaker 4: an iron strobe active again. 320 00:19:42,556 --> 00:19:46,156 Speaker 1: At the top of Taco Gar, an infrared strobe worn 321 00:19:46,236 --> 00:20:05,356 Speaker 1: by an American came alive. We'll be right back. John 322 00:20:05,436 --> 00:20:09,116 Speaker 1: Chapman was lying in the snow, his legs crumpled beneath him, 323 00:20:09,676 --> 00:20:13,076 Speaker 1: alone at the peak of Takregar. His team was certain 324 00:20:13,156 --> 00:20:15,996 Speaker 1: he was dead. He had taken two gunshot wounds to 325 00:20:16,036 --> 00:20:20,356 Speaker 1: his torso, but he was alive. Because John was alone, 326 00:20:20,636 --> 00:20:23,076 Speaker 1: it's impossible to know what he was thinking, how he 327 00:20:23,156 --> 00:20:27,316 Speaker 1: felt in those moments when he regained consciousness. Pain, certainly, 328 00:20:27,956 --> 00:20:30,716 Speaker 1: but also a jolt back to where he was. His 329 00:20:30,836 --> 00:20:34,716 Speaker 1: purpose there to protect what remained of his team to 330 00:20:34,836 --> 00:20:37,436 Speaker 1: move back into the safety of the bunker and to 331 00:20:37,516 --> 00:20:40,516 Speaker 1: call for air support, as he had been trained to do. 332 00:20:41,636 --> 00:20:44,316 Speaker 1: His frozen fingers must have fumbled with the radio he 333 00:20:44,356 --> 00:20:47,756 Speaker 1: had strapped to his chest. He switched it to a 334 00:20:47,756 --> 00:20:52,356 Speaker 1: battlefield common frequency, and then he spoke using his call sign, 335 00:20:53,116 --> 00:20:58,236 Speaker 1: any station, any station, this is MAKO three zero Charlie 336 00:20:58,676 --> 00:21:02,876 Speaker 1: three kilometers away. His fellow combat controller, j Hill heard 337 00:21:02,916 --> 00:21:06,836 Speaker 1: it and responded, but only static came back over the radio. 338 00:21:07,556 --> 00:21:11,196 Speaker 1: John called again and again, but he never heard Jay's responses. 339 00:21:11,596 --> 00:21:14,636 Speaker 1: It's not clear if they ever reached him. Anyway, he 340 00:21:14,756 --> 00:21:17,836 Speaker 1: had bigger issues for one thing, the enemy now knew 341 00:21:17,876 --> 00:21:21,516 Speaker 1: he was there for another. Once Slebinsky had left the peak, 342 00:21:22,036 --> 00:21:23,676 Speaker 1: he had been able to call the air strikes to 343 00:21:23,716 --> 00:21:26,956 Speaker 1: the top of Takergar, not realizing that John was alive 344 00:21:27,036 --> 00:21:31,116 Speaker 1: up there. John crouched in the bunker as the American 345 00:21:31,156 --> 00:21:36,196 Speaker 1: gunship fired rounds down on the mountain. Undeterred, the enemy 346 00:21:36,196 --> 00:21:41,676 Speaker 1: fighters stalked closer to John's position. The Predator drone hovered overhead, 347 00:21:41,836 --> 00:21:44,796 Speaker 1: but to anyone watching it wasn't clear what it showed. 348 00:21:45,476 --> 00:21:49,676 Speaker 1: It was just anonymous shapes moving on a screen. Two 349 00:21:49,716 --> 00:21:53,636 Speaker 1: al Qaeda fighters rushed the bunker and John shot them. 350 00:21:53,876 --> 00:21:56,756 Speaker 1: He engaged another in hand to hand combat. Now, in 351 00:21:56,796 --> 00:22:00,396 Speaker 1: addition to the two gunshot wounds, his face was battered, 352 00:22:01,276 --> 00:22:04,396 Speaker 1: he had shrapnel in his arms, but still he fought 353 00:22:04,436 --> 00:22:09,236 Speaker 1: on the sun slowly crept up above the horizon. His 354 00:22:09,276 --> 00:22:14,276 Speaker 1: ammunition dwindled, and then just after six a m. John 355 00:22:14,316 --> 00:22:17,716 Speaker 1: heard the rotors of a helicopter beating against the sky. 356 00:22:18,676 --> 00:22:22,756 Speaker 1: Slabinsky had called in a Quick Reaction Force or QRF 357 00:22:23,076 --> 00:22:25,316 Speaker 1: to come to the aid of his remaining group of seals, 358 00:22:25,996 --> 00:22:29,276 Speaker 1: But now this helicopter full of eighteen men was going 359 00:22:29,316 --> 00:22:32,196 Speaker 1: to land right in the middle of the hornet's nest, 360 00:22:32,756 --> 00:22:36,556 Speaker 1: just as the tube before it had. Major G. Brown 361 00:22:37,036 --> 00:22:41,116 Speaker 1: was the combat controller on that Shinnuk. He remembers it clearly. 362 00:22:41,876 --> 00:22:42,876 Speaker 4: Sun was coming up. 363 00:22:43,156 --> 00:22:44,236 Speaker 2: It was just about dawn. 364 00:22:44,596 --> 00:22:47,476 Speaker 8: We did one pass over the mountain top, and on 365 00:22:47,516 --> 00:22:49,916 Speaker 8: that second pass we began to flare to land. 366 00:22:50,876 --> 00:22:53,476 Speaker 1: John knew what would happen to that helicopter as soon 367 00:22:53,516 --> 00:22:55,916 Speaker 1: as it got close, and he knew that he had 368 00:22:55,956 --> 00:22:58,876 Speaker 1: to draw fire away from it. He was taking cover 369 00:22:59,036 --> 00:23:02,756 Speaker 1: in that bunker, likely shaking from blood loss and exhaustion 370 00:23:03,196 --> 00:23:06,956 Speaker 1: and exposure to the freezing temperatures, but he was still alive, 371 00:23:07,396 --> 00:23:09,956 Speaker 1: and as long as he was alive, he was going 372 00:23:09,996 --> 00:23:10,916 Speaker 1: to protect those men. 373 00:23:12,396 --> 00:23:16,476 Speaker 8: He knew the very immediate danger he was in. 374 00:23:17,156 --> 00:23:20,676 Speaker 1: Lieutenant Colonel Ken Rodriguez wasn't on tacker Gar, but he 375 00:23:20,756 --> 00:23:23,996 Speaker 1: knew John who he was as a man and as 376 00:23:23,996 --> 00:23:27,236 Speaker 1: an airman. He was John's commander in the Elite twenty 377 00:23:27,276 --> 00:23:28,956 Speaker 1: fourth Special Tech Squadron. 378 00:23:29,796 --> 00:23:34,076 Speaker 8: He's already been wounded multiple times, and now he sees 379 00:23:34,356 --> 00:23:38,516 Speaker 8: the helicopter, the quick reaction helicopter coming in, and he 380 00:23:39,196 --> 00:23:42,796 Speaker 8: came out from cover and exposed himself to very accurate 381 00:23:42,916 --> 00:23:46,716 Speaker 8: enemy fire. Now John's would never say I know for 382 00:23:46,756 --> 00:23:48,756 Speaker 8: a fact I won't get through this. John was a 383 00:23:48,836 --> 00:23:51,236 Speaker 8: very much I'll do whatever I can to get through this. 384 00:23:51,636 --> 00:23:54,556 Speaker 8: But he knew in his hardest hearts. I'm convinced he 385 00:23:54,636 --> 00:23:58,836 Speaker 8: knew what kind of danger he was exposing himself to. 386 00:23:59,156 --> 00:24:03,236 Speaker 8: The enormous risk that he placed himself in when he 387 00:24:03,556 --> 00:24:06,836 Speaker 8: stepped out to defend that quick reaction for his helicopter 388 00:24:07,156 --> 00:24:08,836 Speaker 8: and the lives of the men on board. 389 00:24:09,876 --> 00:24:13,076 Speaker 1: Roughly an hour after he had woken up alone on 390 00:24:13,156 --> 00:24:16,636 Speaker 1: the peak of Takagar, John Chapman stood in the early 391 00:24:16,676 --> 00:24:20,956 Speaker 1: morning light. He shouldered his rifle. Then he slid down 392 00:24:20,996 --> 00:24:24,516 Speaker 1: the slope, legs in front of him, firing rounds in 393 00:24:24,556 --> 00:24:28,596 Speaker 1: a desperate attempt to protect the helicopter. He watched as 394 00:24:28,596 --> 00:24:31,996 Speaker 1: the Chinook was hit by an RPG. He fired the 395 00:24:32,116 --> 00:24:36,476 Speaker 1: last of his ammunition, and then he was shot through 396 00:24:36,476 --> 00:24:40,396 Speaker 1: the heart. He fell back onto the snow for the 397 00:24:40,436 --> 00:24:46,476 Speaker 1: second time that morning. He was dead. Nobody on the 398 00:24:46,516 --> 00:24:50,276 Speaker 1: helicopter saw John fall. They weren't looking for him, after all, 399 00:24:50,676 --> 00:24:53,996 Speaker 1: they believed he had died long before John did what 400 00:24:54,116 --> 00:24:58,596 Speaker 1: he did invisibly. No one knew then what sacrifice he 401 00:24:58,636 --> 00:25:02,116 Speaker 1: had made. It wasn't until later that they found out 402 00:25:02,396 --> 00:25:04,036 Speaker 1: and realized what it meant. 403 00:25:04,756 --> 00:25:07,196 Speaker 4: He sacrificed himself for the for the q R AFT 404 00:25:07,236 --> 00:25:07,676 Speaker 4: that came in. 405 00:25:09,116 --> 00:25:12,556 Speaker 1: It was almost the case that no one ever knew 406 00:25:12,596 --> 00:25:31,876 Speaker 1: about John Chapman's one man's stand, We'll be right back. Ultimately, 407 00:25:32,436 --> 00:25:35,836 Speaker 1: seven lives would be lost on tackle. Gar Neil Roberts, 408 00:25:36,156 --> 00:25:38,716 Speaker 1: the first seal to follow that day, died before they 409 00:25:38,796 --> 00:25:42,516 Speaker 1: reached him John Chapman and five men from the QRF. 410 00:25:43,236 --> 00:25:47,156 Speaker 1: But the mountaintop would eventually be secured an operation and 411 00:25:47,276 --> 00:25:51,436 Speaker 1: a conda would be considered a success. It fell to 412 00:25:51,516 --> 00:25:56,836 Speaker 1: Canrodriguez to tell John's family, Valerie, Madison and Brianna, what 413 00:25:56,996 --> 00:25:59,996 Speaker 1: had happened. He went to that little house in North 414 00:25:59,996 --> 00:26:04,156 Speaker 1: Carolina where John and his girls felt so safe. 415 00:26:04,396 --> 00:26:07,716 Speaker 5: When I went to Valerie's doorstep to tell her that 416 00:26:08,036 --> 00:26:12,116 Speaker 5: John wasn't coming home, and I saw those two, those 417 00:26:12,156 --> 00:26:19,876 Speaker 5: beautiful little girls, there were five and three times, I thought, yeah, 418 00:26:19,876 --> 00:26:22,596 Speaker 5: they're good, you grow up without their daddy. I just 419 00:26:23,796 --> 00:26:26,356 Speaker 5: I think that every time I might thank him John. 420 00:26:28,716 --> 00:26:32,756 Speaker 1: Both John Chapman and Britt Slabinski were awarded for their 421 00:26:32,796 --> 00:26:37,276 Speaker 1: bravery on Taka Gar. Slabinsky was decorated with the Navy Cross, 422 00:26:37,876 --> 00:26:41,316 Speaker 1: John with the Air Force Cross. He was honored for 423 00:26:41,396 --> 00:26:44,116 Speaker 1: his fearless race across the snow to that first bunker, 424 00:26:44,716 --> 00:26:48,316 Speaker 1: for eliminating the enemy there and protecting the seals of 425 00:26:48,356 --> 00:26:52,676 Speaker 1: his team, all actions from before they were treated down 426 00:26:52,756 --> 00:26:57,236 Speaker 1: the mountain. But after hearing about his incredible one man stand, 427 00:26:57,516 --> 00:27:00,516 Speaker 1: you've got to be wondering, why not the medal of honor. 428 00:27:01,716 --> 00:27:06,276 Speaker 1: Here's why nobody knew that John Chapman had survived past 429 00:27:06,356 --> 00:27:08,716 Speaker 1: that first time he was shot. There had been no 430 00:27:08,836 --> 00:27:13,836 Speaker 1: eye witnesses to his final power long battle. So the 431 00:27:13,876 --> 00:27:16,396 Speaker 1: Air Force Cross might have been the end of the story. 432 00:27:17,116 --> 00:27:21,636 Speaker 1: Except in May of twenty fifteen, thirteen years after John's death, 433 00:27:22,356 --> 00:27:26,156 Speaker 1: Deborhly James, then Secretary of the Air Force, read an. 434 00:27:26,116 --> 00:27:29,796 Speaker 6: Article The Air Force Times had a headline what's to 435 00:27:29,876 --> 00:27:33,076 Speaker 6: take for an airman to be awarded the Medal of Honor? 436 00:27:33,716 --> 00:27:37,476 Speaker 6: And they had various accounts of airmen who had distinguished 437 00:27:37,476 --> 00:27:40,516 Speaker 6: themselves above and beyond the call of duty in combat, 438 00:27:41,196 --> 00:27:43,916 Speaker 6: who had been awarded the second highest award, but not 439 00:27:44,116 --> 00:27:47,196 Speaker 6: the Medal of Honor. And when I read about John 440 00:27:47,276 --> 00:27:51,676 Speaker 6: Chapman and his exploits in March of two thousand and 441 00:27:51,716 --> 00:27:56,356 Speaker 6: two in Afghanistan, I could not understand why this case, 442 00:27:56,556 --> 00:28:00,436 Speaker 6: for example, didn't merit a higher level award. 443 00:28:01,196 --> 00:28:05,156 Speaker 1: So James ordered a review. She is, by her own admission, 444 00:28:05,396 --> 00:28:08,796 Speaker 1: obsessed with fairness, and there were parts of the story 445 00:28:09,196 --> 00:28:11,796 Speaker 1: it didn't make sense if John had been killed the 446 00:28:11,836 --> 00:28:15,956 Speaker 1: first time he was shot. She wondered, did his heroism 447 00:28:16,436 --> 00:28:21,596 Speaker 1: deserve something more? And she discovered the answer it did. 448 00:28:22,636 --> 00:28:26,276 Speaker 1: The Air Force Cross had only honored half of John's story. 449 00:28:26,596 --> 00:28:30,916 Speaker 1: Nobody had seen the rest of it, except for that drone. 450 00:28:31,076 --> 00:28:35,996 Speaker 6: The most important thing for me was there was drone footage, which, 451 00:28:36,436 --> 00:28:40,436 Speaker 6: for whatever reason, was not reviewed at the time. 452 00:28:42,316 --> 00:28:46,076 Speaker 1: The drone footage was hazy. The person who had been 453 00:28:46,236 --> 00:28:49,476 Speaker 1: monitoring at that day was thousands of miles from the action. 454 00:28:50,316 --> 00:28:53,196 Speaker 1: At the time, it wasn't clear exactly what it showed, 455 00:28:53,956 --> 00:28:57,156 Speaker 1: but James and the review board ran the footage through 456 00:28:57,236 --> 00:29:02,076 Speaker 1: newly available software which could isolate pixel representations of people 457 00:29:02,596 --> 00:29:03,756 Speaker 1: and track their movements. 458 00:29:04,476 --> 00:29:08,476 Speaker 6: We could see the moment that Chapman went down. We 459 00:29:08,516 --> 00:29:11,596 Speaker 6: could see when the rest of the team withdrew from 460 00:29:11,596 --> 00:29:14,356 Speaker 6: the mountain. The rest of the team we know, believed 461 00:29:14,436 --> 00:29:16,956 Speaker 6: Chapman to be dead at that time, and certainly he 462 00:29:17,076 --> 00:29:20,356 Speaker 6: was down, but we also know from that footage that 463 00:29:20,476 --> 00:29:25,796 Speaker 6: Chapman got back up again and continued fighting while he 464 00:29:25,916 --> 00:29:29,596 Speaker 6: was alone. So that drone footage just as well could 465 00:29:29,636 --> 00:29:33,556 Speaker 6: have been DNA in a crime scene to me, But. 466 00:29:33,556 --> 00:29:35,676 Speaker 1: By now you know this isn't how Medal of Honors 467 00:29:35,676 --> 00:29:39,916 Speaker 1: submissions usually work. Remember Alwen Cash. The Medal of Honor 468 00:29:39,956 --> 00:29:44,836 Speaker 1: relies on eyewitness testimony, but in this case, John was alone. 469 00:29:45,756 --> 00:29:48,316 Speaker 1: The only humans on tackle Guard to witness his one 470 00:29:48,356 --> 00:29:53,316 Speaker 1: man's stand were enemy fighters, and Britt Slabinski was certain 471 00:29:53,396 --> 00:29:55,996 Speaker 1: John was dead or he never would have left him. 472 00:29:56,556 --> 00:29:59,076 Speaker 6: I believe this was the first case ever in history 473 00:29:59,156 --> 00:30:04,036 Speaker 6: that relied to a degree on forensic type evidence technical evidence. 474 00:30:04,156 --> 00:30:08,556 Speaker 6: Every other Medal of Honor case heretofore was solely on 475 00:30:08,636 --> 00:30:09,836 Speaker 6: Eyewitnes accounts. 476 00:30:10,836 --> 00:30:15,956 Speaker 1: Alongside the Joan footage, they scrutinized John's autopsy, which showed 477 00:30:16,036 --> 00:30:19,596 Speaker 1: injuries that could only have been received after the rest 478 00:30:19,596 --> 00:30:24,076 Speaker 1: of the sealed team departed. Jay Hill, the other combat controller, 479 00:30:24,356 --> 00:30:27,676 Speaker 1: told them about hearing John's call sign again and again 480 00:30:28,316 --> 00:30:31,716 Speaker 1: the stress in John's voice. Plus there was the fact 481 00:30:31,756 --> 00:30:34,556 Speaker 1: that John had used up almost all of his ammunition, 482 00:30:35,076 --> 00:30:40,836 Speaker 1: proof of a prolonged fight. James saw an obvious conclusion. 483 00:30:41,676 --> 00:30:44,396 Speaker 1: What she didn't foresee was pushback. 484 00:30:45,716 --> 00:30:52,116 Speaker 6: The Special Operations community, much to my surprise, questioned that 485 00:30:52,236 --> 00:30:55,396 Speaker 6: the technical evidence that we thought was the slam dunk 486 00:30:55,476 --> 00:30:59,956 Speaker 6: proof that Chapman had survived the initial wounding, got back 487 00:30:59,996 --> 00:31:03,356 Speaker 6: up and continued fighting. This went on and on and 488 00:31:03,436 --> 00:31:07,236 Speaker 6: on for months. I came to believe over time that 489 00:31:07,516 --> 00:31:12,516 Speaker 6: it was simply too hard for these other human beings 490 00:31:12,756 --> 00:31:16,156 Speaker 6: who were representing people who had done the very best 491 00:31:16,236 --> 00:31:20,116 Speaker 6: that they could do on the worst day of their life. 492 00:31:20,636 --> 00:31:25,076 Speaker 6: That they had left someone behind alive. I think they 493 00:31:25,116 --> 00:31:29,276 Speaker 6: could not come to grips with that, and so they 494 00:31:29,996 --> 00:31:34,676 Speaker 6: rejected that piece of the argument they believed and continued 495 00:31:34,716 --> 00:31:38,956 Speaker 6: to say, we believe that Chapman was dead at the 496 00:31:39,036 --> 00:31:45,276 Speaker 6: time we withdrew, and so without that new evidence, the 497 00:31:45,316 --> 00:31:49,836 Speaker 6: package was stalling. Without their coordination, it was taking more time. 498 00:31:51,076 --> 00:31:53,636 Speaker 1: You can only imagine how hard it must have been 499 00:31:53,676 --> 00:31:56,116 Speaker 1: for the Seals to think that they had left John 500 00:31:56,156 --> 00:32:00,516 Speaker 1: there alone. Leave no man behind is an article of 501 00:32:00,516 --> 00:32:05,116 Speaker 1: faith for the Seals. This new information changed the narrative 502 00:32:05,436 --> 00:32:09,076 Speaker 1: in a way that was heroic for John but horrifying 503 00:32:09,196 --> 00:32:12,276 Speaker 1: for the others who'd been there. And just to be clear, 504 00:32:12,516 --> 00:32:16,996 Speaker 1: nobody second guest bittz Slobinski's decision to retreat from the 505 00:32:17,036 --> 00:32:18,356 Speaker 1: top of Takergar. 506 00:32:19,556 --> 00:32:23,236 Speaker 8: I believe firmly that every single man on that hill 507 00:32:23,676 --> 00:32:27,356 Speaker 8: made the very best decisions they possibly could while bullets 508 00:32:27,356 --> 00:32:31,036 Speaker 8: are flying, while people are getting wounded, and to say 509 00:32:31,036 --> 00:32:33,956 Speaker 8: anything other than that would be a miscarriage of what 510 00:32:34,156 --> 00:32:34,836 Speaker 8: really went on. 511 00:32:35,676 --> 00:32:39,996 Speaker 2: Even John's mom agrees Johnny would have wanted them to 512 00:32:39,996 --> 00:32:42,156 Speaker 2: do just that, to take their wounded off the mountain. 513 00:32:43,116 --> 00:32:46,996 Speaker 1: Deborly, James, who saw John's medal as her fight, who 514 00:32:47,036 --> 00:32:49,716 Speaker 1: believed it was her duty as Secretary of the Air 515 00:32:49,716 --> 00:32:54,076 Speaker 1: Force to honor all aspects of his bravery, couldn't believe 516 00:32:54,116 --> 00:32:56,436 Speaker 1: the package was getting slowed down. 517 00:32:57,236 --> 00:33:03,116 Speaker 6: I thought that the desire to honor a fallen brother 518 00:33:03,956 --> 00:33:09,116 Speaker 6: would overcome any other possible feelings that might be out there. 519 00:33:11,676 --> 00:33:14,516 Speaker 6: I think the truth of the matter is they wanted 520 00:33:14,516 --> 00:33:17,276 Speaker 6: to do both. They wanted to honor him, but they 521 00:33:17,356 --> 00:33:22,076 Speaker 6: could not take that additional step of admitting a mistake. 522 00:33:22,356 --> 00:33:26,556 Speaker 6: A mistake, as I said earlier, was honest, and it 523 00:33:26,636 --> 00:33:29,876 Speaker 6: wasn't the fog of war. It was the whipping wind 524 00:33:29,996 --> 00:33:34,516 Speaker 6: and snow of war and the uncertainty that comes in 525 00:33:34,556 --> 00:33:40,676 Speaker 6: these situations. I don't fall to anybody for what they 526 00:33:40,716 --> 00:33:43,276 Speaker 6: did that day. I just wish they had been more 527 00:33:43,316 --> 00:33:47,756 Speaker 6: supportive of getting this package through without controversy. 528 00:33:47,836 --> 00:33:52,596 Speaker 1: For John Chapman, James kept pushing for what she thought 529 00:33:52,676 --> 00:33:56,796 Speaker 1: was fair and right, navigating the package to the hurdles 530 00:33:57,156 --> 00:34:02,076 Speaker 1: of defensiveness and doubt, and finally, in August of twenty eighteen, 531 00:34:02,956 --> 00:34:07,356 Speaker 1: President Donald Trump awarded John his Medal of Honor. But 532 00:34:07,436 --> 00:34:09,996 Speaker 1: you can't imagine that the medal have mattered to John. 533 00:34:10,596 --> 00:34:11,636 Speaker 6: I believe John will hear. 534 00:34:11,676 --> 00:34:13,796 Speaker 3: He would say, every one that would have done the same 535 00:34:13,836 --> 00:34:15,156 Speaker 3: thing as they're trained to do. 536 00:34:16,836 --> 00:34:19,436 Speaker 1: One of the great gifts of working on this podcast 537 00:34:19,476 --> 00:34:23,116 Speaker 1: series has been getting to explore the extreme reaches of 538 00:34:23,156 --> 00:34:27,596 Speaker 1: the human spirit, the exceptional bravery, as the military says, 539 00:34:27,996 --> 00:34:32,476 Speaker 1: above and beyond the call of duty, exemplified by the 540 00:34:32,476 --> 00:34:36,556 Speaker 1: Medal of Honor. It's interesting to me that so many 541 00:34:36,596 --> 00:34:39,956 Speaker 1: of these stories have happened in the dark. Henry Johnson 542 00:34:39,996 --> 00:34:44,076 Speaker 1: battling at midnight against the German raiding party, Ted Rubin 543 00:34:44,316 --> 00:34:47,956 Speaker 1: holding that North Korean ridge all night long, Jave Argus 544 00:34:47,996 --> 00:34:52,236 Speaker 1: and his men in the Vietnamese cemetery, and now John 545 00:34:52,316 --> 00:34:57,676 Speaker 1: Chapman alone in the dark attacker gar It didn't matter 546 00:34:57,716 --> 00:35:01,036 Speaker 1: to John if his acts of bravery were seen, if 547 00:35:01,076 --> 00:35:05,516 Speaker 1: anyone knew about them. That wasn't the point. It never 548 00:35:05,636 --> 00:35:08,876 Speaker 1: is Deborly, James would tell you that the Medal of 549 00:35:08,916 --> 00:35:12,436 Speaker 1: hon is important because it teaches those in the military 550 00:35:12,796 --> 00:35:13,796 Speaker 1: what they can achieve. 551 00:35:14,836 --> 00:35:19,236 Speaker 6: The stories of Medal of Honor recipients live on for 552 00:35:19,836 --> 00:35:25,196 Speaker 6: decades and even centuries in the US military. Military students 553 00:35:25,436 --> 00:35:29,916 Speaker 6: learn about these stories in school. These are stories that 554 00:35:30,196 --> 00:35:34,276 Speaker 6: go down in the history of the services. 555 00:35:35,916 --> 00:35:39,156 Speaker 1: But stories like John Chapman's should matter to the rest 556 00:35:39,196 --> 00:35:43,996 Speaker 1: of us for a different reason. Most people would probably 557 00:35:44,036 --> 00:35:47,236 Speaker 1: assume that anyone in their right mind would stay in 558 00:35:47,236 --> 00:35:50,836 Speaker 1: that bunker if they were wounded and outnumbered like John was. 559 00:35:51,796 --> 00:35:55,516 Speaker 1: His story is proof that not everybody would. That being 560 00:35:55,596 --> 00:35:59,236 Speaker 1: human can mean sacrificing yourself alone in the dark, with 561 00:35:59,356 --> 00:36:03,836 Speaker 1: no hope of being famous or richly rewarded. Medal of 562 00:36:03,876 --> 00:36:09,796 Speaker 1: Honor recipients make exactly those kinds of choices. Only look 563 00:36:10,076 --> 00:36:14,116 Speaker 1: at the official citations for each recipient, those short few 564 00:36:14,156 --> 00:36:18,236 Speaker 1: paragraphs the President reads at the ceremony. You're left with 565 00:36:18,316 --> 00:36:22,436 Speaker 1: a pretty unrelatable snapshot of an extraordinary moment in time. 566 00:36:23,636 --> 00:36:26,596 Speaker 1: That's why I wanted to make this show. The Medal 567 00:36:26,596 --> 00:36:29,276 Speaker 1: of Honor isn't meant to take these people and put 568 00:36:29,316 --> 00:36:35,516 Speaker 1: them on an unreachable pedestal. It's meant as an inspiration challenge. 569 00:36:36,356 --> 00:36:39,756 Speaker 1: And by learning who the recipients were as people, what 570 00:36:39,796 --> 00:36:43,996 Speaker 1: they went through, what they were like, you understand these 571 00:36:43,996 --> 00:36:49,676 Speaker 1: aren't comic book heroes. These are human beings. Through the medal, 572 00:36:50,116 --> 00:36:54,196 Speaker 1: its recipients stay alive in our collective memory, encouraging us 573 00:36:54,236 --> 00:36:57,236 Speaker 1: forward in the same way that Valley believes that John 574 00:36:57,316 --> 00:36:59,196 Speaker 1: lives on to their daughters. 575 00:37:00,196 --> 00:37:02,716 Speaker 3: His legacy will continues as long as you know they 576 00:37:02,956 --> 00:37:06,516 Speaker 3: tell his story to their children and their children's children. 577 00:37:06,556 --> 00:37:07,676 Speaker 4: I mean, he will live forever. 578 00:37:09,276 --> 00:37:13,636 Speaker 1: Courage doesn't just happen on the battlefield. So many people 579 00:37:14,236 --> 00:37:19,716 Speaker 1: all over the planet are bravely struggling alone, unseen, fighting 580 00:37:19,756 --> 00:37:25,156 Speaker 1: their own battles in their own ways, overcoming incredible odds 581 00:37:25,196 --> 00:37:30,076 Speaker 1: in circumstances that we can never fully appreciate or understand. 582 00:37:31,356 --> 00:37:34,396 Speaker 1: That's why it matters that we bring these stories of 583 00:37:34,476 --> 00:37:38,356 Speaker 1: heroism out of the dark and into the light. With 584 00:37:38,436 --> 00:37:43,596 Speaker 1: each one, we acknowledge a hero's service and their sacrifice, 585 00:37:43,716 --> 00:37:46,916 Speaker 1: but we also acknowledge the strength that's within all of us, 586 00:37:47,716 --> 00:37:52,756 Speaker 1: the potential to do better, to be better, and to 587 00:37:52,796 --> 00:37:57,116 Speaker 1: make a difference, even if nobody can see what a 588 00:37:57,116 --> 00:38:10,956 Speaker 1: difference you've made. Medal of Honor. Stories of Courage is 589 00:38:10,996 --> 00:38:16,116 Speaker 1: written by Meredith Rollins and produced by Meredith Rollins, Costanza Gallardo, 590 00:38:16,756 --> 00:38:20,716 Speaker 1: and Izzy Carter. Our editor is Ben the Dafaffrey. Sound 591 00:38:20,716 --> 00:38:24,876 Speaker 1: design and additional music by Jake Gorsky, Recording engineering by 592 00:38:24,956 --> 00:38:29,716 Speaker 1: Nina Lawrence, fact checking by Arthur Gombert's Original music by 593 00:38:29,836 --> 00:38:33,796 Speaker 1: Eric Phillips. The rest of our team includes Carl Ketel, 594 00:38:33,996 --> 00:38:39,716 Speaker 1: Grete Cone, Christina Slomon, Sarah Nix, Nicole upden Bosch, Eric Sandler, 595 00:38:39,796 --> 00:38:44,196 Speaker 1: Kerry Brody, Taly Emlin, and Jake Flanagan. Special thanks to 596 00:38:44,316 --> 00:38:48,356 Speaker 1: series creator Dan McGinn to the Congressional Medal of Honor 597 00:38:48,476 --> 00:38:54,356 Speaker 1: Society and Adam Plumpton. I'm your Host Malcolin Babbo