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Speaker 1: Trust me.

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Speaker 2: Trust me. I'm like a swat person. I've never lived.

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Speaker 2: To you.

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Speaker 3: If you think that one person has all the answers, don't.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to trust me. The podcast about cults, extreme belief

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Speaker 4: and the abuse of power from two human suits who've

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Speaker 4: actually experienced it.

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Speaker 1: I am Lola.

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Speaker 4: Blanc and I am Megan Elizabeth. Today our guest is

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Speaker 4: Frank Leiford, whom you may have seen on the HBO

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Speaker 4: docuseries Heaven's Gate the Cult of Cults, because Frank was

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Speaker 4: a member of Heaven's.

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Speaker 1: Gate for eighteen years.

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Speaker 4: That's right, Heaven's Gate the UFO religious cult most famous

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Speaker 4: for its mass ritual suicide in the nineties, which its

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Speaker 4: participants believed was going to result in them being taken

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Speaker 4: up into a spacecraft that was trailing the comet Hilbop.

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Speaker 4: This is one of the most famous cults in the world,

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Speaker 4: often reduced to jokes about the nikes that they weren't

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Speaker 4: the suicide, and today we get an inside look into

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Speaker 4: what it was really.

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Speaker 1: Like in this cult.

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Speaker 4: There was so much to get into with him that

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Speaker 4: this is a two parters, So in part one today

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Speaker 4: he's going to tell us what his life was like

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Speaker 4: in the very beginning of joining the cult. He'll talk

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Speaker 4: about how he came to follow the leader's Tea and

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Speaker 4: Doe with his girlfriend Erica, what it was like wandering

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Speaker 4: the country living a nomadic lifestyle with his assigned check partner,

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Speaker 4: and what happened when they finally settled down in one

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Speaker 4: place for what they called class.

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Speaker 3: The documentary on HBO is so good. I cannot believe

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Speaker 3: we got him. I'm so excited. He's going to tell

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Speaker 3: us how things began to get more and more strict

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Speaker 3: and controlling, down to the size of their pancakes, how

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Speaker 3: it felt to be separated from the love.

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Speaker 4: Of his life, and how things began to get much

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Speaker 4: darker when one of their leaders, Tea, got cancer, leaving

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Speaker 4: Marshall Applewhite aka Doe as the only leader of the group.

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Speaker 3: And stay tuned next week because we have the rest

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Speaker 3: of this story coming up.

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Speaker 4: Oh and it's so heartbreaking and really the sweetest.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Anyway, dear Megan, Yes, tell me please, what's the cultiest

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Speaker 4: thing that happened to you this week?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 3: I think it was when you sent me the most

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Speaker 3: insane video story Instagram I've ever seen.

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Speaker 5: Are we talking about that this week?

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Speaker 1: Yes? Please, what is happening? Okay? Do you want to start?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 5: I think you should. This was your find, all right?

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Speaker 1: So someone people send me cult videos a lot.

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Speaker 4: A cult TikTok is like blowing up and it should

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Speaker 4: make me happy, but it kind of stresses me out.

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Speaker 4: So I got sent this series of tiktoks that this

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Speaker 4: woman posted on her Instagram about a commune in Tennessee,

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Speaker 4: a sustainable living community that TikTok cult talk has decided

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Speaker 4: is a cult. And granted, yes, these people seem very weird.

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Speaker 4: One of them is this woman with dreads who's like

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Speaker 4: creepy and gas lighting and apparently they killed a feral

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Speaker 4: cat and ate it.

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Speaker 5: With the dreads. She's white, so there's that's the problem.

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Speaker 1: Didn't I say that? No, I didn't specify.

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Speaker 5: She's a white oman.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, she's a white woman with dreads. Okay, No, that's

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Speaker 4: why it's weird.

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Speaker 5: She's white.

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Speaker 3: Okay, she's incredibly white. Well, she also turned her golden

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Speaker 3: retriever into a rug. I don't know if you saw that,

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Speaker 3: like a bear skin rug. She made a golden retriever

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Speaker 3: rug out of her dog. So obviously there's a lot

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Speaker 3: there under the surface. But it was pretty scary. More

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Speaker 3: scary to me.

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Speaker 5: How obsessed the TikTokers were.

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Speaker 1: Same. We gotta talk about this, Okay.

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Speaker 4: First of all, I want to I want to just

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Speaker 4: say one thing about the animal stuff. Yes, it is

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Speaker 4: totally unacceptable to shoot a cat instead of taking it

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Speaker 4: to a shelter, obviously, and it is bizarre to then

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Speaker 4: eat it, even if that's not why you shot it.

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Speaker 4: They say it's a no waste community or whatever. I

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Speaker 4: just want to say this one thing, which is that

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Speaker 4: I know Hella gooth people who like when their animals

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Speaker 4: die they taxidermy them themselves, right.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I won't I won't say I know a lot of people,

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Speaker 4: but I'm I am I know enough people.

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Speaker 5: How many would you say, oh like two hundred? Okay,

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Speaker 5: all right, all right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I mean I can see that the Golden Retriever died

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Speaker 3: of apparently natural so you know, she didn't kill the

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Speaker 3: dog for his fur.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean I don't think you should ever

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Speaker 4: kill an animal. You should take the animal somewhere or whatever.

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Speaker 4: But I do know also a lot of country people

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Speaker 4: who legitimately, so the cat apparently killed thirty of their

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Speaker 4: chickens and I grew up on a farm. There just

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Speaker 4: are country people who will kill animals, that are killing

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Speaker 4: their animals. That is, that is a thing that happens.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't mean that it's cool or acceptable or right.

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Speaker 4: But it also doesn't automatically mean that they're like a

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Speaker 4: murderous cult. That's not automatically what that means. And that

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Speaker 4: seemed to be the takeaway.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, from these people on TikTok.

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Speaker 3: Maybe we needed to watch more of it or like

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Speaker 3: get a more full story, because I mean, obviously they're

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Speaker 3: they're doing some really weird shit, Like they're saying it

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Speaker 3: doesn't matter what age you are, just come, and so

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Speaker 3: you know, thirteen year olds on TikTok are like I'm

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Speaker 3: going to go to Tennessee and like run away.

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Speaker 5: I kind of got that argument.

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Speaker 1: You know, they said any age could come.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so they said it was it's like family friendly.

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Speaker 2: Uh huh.

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Speaker 4: I don't think they were saying unaccompanied miners should come though.

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Speaker 5: I don't think they were staying like her, it's.

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Speaker 1: A family it's a face place that families can come to.

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Speaker 4: I don't know either, but they're inviting people to this

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Speaker 4: compound and yes, it could very well be a cult.

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent it could be a cult.

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Speaker 4: Oh and there was one other thing that was very

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Speaker 4: creepy where they are all passing around a jug of

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Speaker 4: kool Aid and.

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Speaker 1: Saying, drink the cool aid.

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Speaker 4: I'm all taking a swig, and then the dreads lady

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Speaker 4: was like, drink the kool Aid is not a reference

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Speaker 4: to Jonestown.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what Jonestown is. I don't watch TV.

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Speaker 1: There was a book.

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Speaker 4: Called the Electric kool Aid Acid Test that these kids

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Speaker 4: don't know anything about. It has nothing to do with Jonestown,

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Speaker 4: which is a lie. Like obviously they know they're referencing

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Speaker 4: Jonestown like that is like some weird gaslighting shit. So

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Speaker 4: I do think that that woman is probably there's something

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Speaker 4: up with her. But can I just so if a

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Speaker 4: group is a cult, right, if we see a group

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Speaker 4: on TikTok or wherever that we're like, oh, that's a cult,

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Speaker 4: that doesn't mean that all of those people in that

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Speaker 4: group are bad people and doing bad things. That means

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Speaker 4: that somebody is probably controlling those people, and like those

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Speaker 4: people are most likely victims, right, So I feel like

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Speaker 4: it further stigmatizes cult members and former cult members, you know,

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I mean, well, just off the subject.

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Speaker 6: It is literally the worst place I've ever seen. It's

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Speaker 6: like truly five am Coachella, gross vibes.

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Speaker 1: The fake Ed Sheeran guy is kind of hot. Though

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Speaker 1: not gonna lie, Okay, I'm just gonna say that he's

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Speaker 1: kind of hot.

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Speaker 3: Guys, everybody needs to go watch this immediately. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying he's not hot. I'm not trying to

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Speaker 3: be a dick, but that's shocking.

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Speaker 5: I'm shocked.

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Speaker 1: Honestly.

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Speaker 4: I wish it weren't COVID times because I would say

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Speaker 4: we should go there and just like investigate.

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Speaker 1: I want to go investigate. We'll talk to them.

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Speaker 3: There is some definite COVID sts there for sure.

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Speaker 4: Oh wait, I forgot. They also have like a weird

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Speaker 4: Confederate flag. It's definitely bad. Like it's definitely not a

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Speaker 4: good situation going on there.

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Speaker 3: I guess it's just that there's like so many of

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Speaker 3: those across America. It's almost just more of a dysfunctional family.

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Speaker 4: Where do we draw the line between commune of weird

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Speaker 4: people and like actual abusimical I you know, like some

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Speaker 4: of those people who are farming that they just seem

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Speaker 4: like country folk who are farmers, who are like, I guess,

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Speaker 4: not a cult.

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Speaker 1: I'm fading the cow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but then they're like raving like in a weird attic.

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Speaker 5: It's just awful. It's my health. It's awful, it's my health.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely weird bad views. But also, can we not

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Speaker 4: start doing this thing that TikTok is doing where it's

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Speaker 4: like this growing paranoia about everything being a cult.

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Speaker 5: TikTok's the cult.

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Speaker 4: It's just prime and territory to oversimplify and to organize

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Speaker 4: things in black and white. And we are fighting against that,

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Speaker 4: I think critically, my friends, because honestly, attacking people when

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Speaker 4: they are genuinely in a cult is not the thing

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Speaker 4: that's gonna help anything anyway. Yeah, Like, they don't respond

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Speaker 4: to being attacked, they don't respond to their belief systems

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Speaker 4: directly being attacked, So you're not it's not constructive in

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Speaker 4: any way other than like making people afraid of them.

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Speaker 5: It just perpetuates the problem exactly.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, if you guys have thoughts on any of these

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Speaker 1: groups on tiktoks, please let tiktoks on tikstoks. Yeah, please

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Speaker 1: let us know, and if it was.

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Speaker 3: Particularly triggering to you and we're writing it off like

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Speaker 3: it's fine, let us know that part too, because yeah,

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Speaker 3: we want to be sensitive to we want to understand.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about some happy stuff today.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but I'm so excited to get into this stuff

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Speaker 4: with Frank.

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Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just so grateful he talked to us

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Speaker 1: me too. Shall we begin.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, welcome, Frank Leiford. Thank you so much for coming on.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: It's good to be here, so happy to see you.

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Speaker 4: I was just watching your beautiful story in the HBO

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Speaker 4: documentary and so nice to get to talk to you

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Speaker 4: in the flesh, well, in the digital flesh. So Heaven's Gate,

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Speaker 4: as many of our listeners will already know, was a

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Speaker 4: religious UFO cult in the seventies, eighties, and nineties. It

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Speaker 4: was run by a man named Marshall Applewhite and a

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Speaker 4: woman named Bonnie Nettles who went by Doe and Tea, respectively.

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Speaker 4: So the man is Dough and the woman is Tea.

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Speaker 4: And of course they're most famous for committing a mass

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Speaker 4: suicide in nineteen ninety seven. And you, Frank, were a

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Speaker 4: member for eighteen years.

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Speaker 1: Is that right correct?

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Speaker 4: So can you Please start us at the beginning, like

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Speaker 4: how old were you when you first joined? Where were

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Speaker 4: you at in your life? Like tell us about that.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's going back, Okay, I was twenty one. I

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Speaker 2: was a story I naive, twenty one year old kid

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Speaker 2: who had read some UFO books. I'd read about Edgar Casey,

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Speaker 2: his book by Thomas Screw There was a River.

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Speaker 1: What is that? That's just like a UFO book.

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Speaker 2: No, Edgar Casey is a channeler. He's a trance channeler

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Speaker 2: in the nineteen thirties. He's also famous for several predictions

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Speaker 2: about the state of the world. Gotcha anyway, I had

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Speaker 2: a girlfriend at the time. We've been together three years,

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Speaker 2: and both of us were interested in, or you know,

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Speaker 2: entertained the idea of UFOs. We were getting ready to

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Speaker 2: move in together and we were gonna go on vacation.

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Speaker 2: First we were in Calgary, Alberta. We went on vacation

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Speaker 2: out to the West coast. We're gonna dip down into

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Speaker 2: the US and visit my first cousin, David Vin Sindarin.

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Speaker 2: He was one of my favorite people and I just

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Speaker 2: really enjoyed his company. We went to Corbalis, Oregon, where

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Speaker 2: he was going to school. He was a perpetual student.

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Speaker 2: And in the course of our talking he told us

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Speaker 2: about a poster that he had seen around Corbalis. It's

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Speaker 2: a college town, and he said he would show it

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Speaker 2: to us the next day. So he did, and it

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Speaker 2: intrigued me. It intreated Erica, and he was also intrigued.

240
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Speaker 2: The thing that piqued my interest was a line in

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Speaker 2: the poster that first of all, it was headed UFO two,

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Speaker 2: Why they're here, who they have come for? And when

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Speaker 2: they will leave? But there was a line in there

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Speaker 2: that piqued my interested said something like, if you have

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Speaker 2: ever entertained the idea of a real physical level of

246
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Speaker 2: existence beyond the human level, you will want to attend

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Speaker 2: this meeting. So I did. I want to do it

248
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Speaker 2: in the meeting because I had entertained such a thing.

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Speaker 2: So the meeting was in a couple of days. So

250
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Speaker 2: we drove about an hour to the coast of Oregon

251
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Speaker 2: to a little place called Waldport, and the room was packed.

252
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Speaker 2: We got there just before the meeting was going to start,

253
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Speaker 2: so we had trouble finding seats. There may be one

254
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Speaker 2: hundred people in the room.

255
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Speaker 4: Oh, I can't imagine, just a poster could get that

256
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Speaker 4: many people there, it seems crazy now.

257
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Speaker 2: Well, apparently they had pepper the whole area. Plus, as

258
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Speaker 2: we found out later, there was a commune in the

259
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Speaker 2: Waldport area of maybe fifty people who were all hippies

260
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Speaker 2: and dropouts. A lot of them ended up joining the group.

261
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Speaker 1: Interesting.

262
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Speaker 2: So, you know, there were I sensed differing mindsets of

263
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Speaker 2: the people there. There were some who seemed quite excited

264
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Speaker 2: and others who were standing at the back as if,

265
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Speaker 2: you know, I'm not so sure about this. I'm gonna

266
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Speaker 2: see what it's like. And if they sound crazy, I'm

267
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Speaker 2: ready to leave, you know, ready to bolt. There were

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Speaker 2: two people at the front kindo at that point. They

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Speaker 2: were called Bow and Peep, and they spoke for maybe

270
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Speaker 2: an hour. Their talk kind of had a blend of

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Speaker 2: three different approaches to life. One was the spirituality common

272
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Speaker 2: of that time, using some of the work from the

273
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Speaker 2: book Seth Speaks, and he was another channeled entity. They

274
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Speaker 2: talked about Christianity and how the same energies that they

275
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Speaker 2: represented had visited the Earth two thousand years ago in

276
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Speaker 2: the form of Jesus. And they talked about UFOs, how

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Speaker 2: UFOs were the transportation of this next evolutionary level above

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Speaker 2: human that they were here to tell people about. They

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Speaker 2: said that if anyone was interested in following them, they

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Speaker 2: would teach those people how to prepare to graduate to

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Speaker 2: this next evolutionary level above human.

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Speaker 4: So when you say they represented the energy of Jesus,

283
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Speaker 4: does that mean that they're like physically embodying Jesus, Like,

284
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Speaker 4: what does that mean exactly?

285
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Speaker 2: We found out later they believed they were the two

286
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Speaker 2: witnesses talked about in the Book of Revelation in the

287
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Speaker 2: Bible ah right. And they believed Doe the Man was

288
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Speaker 2: Sabri incarnate of Jesus, and t the woman was Doe's

289
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Speaker 2: older member, those elder those teacher, long story short. At

290
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Speaker 2: the end of their talk, they said, if anybody's interested,

291
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Speaker 2: there are son here who have been with us for

292
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Speaker 2: a few months, and they will tell you where to

293
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Speaker 2: meet to find out more information. So after the meeting,

294
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Speaker 2: I felt higher than a kite. I felt like just

295
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Speaker 2: brimming with energy and like really excited that this was

296
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Speaker 2: pretty cool thing that we had stumbled across. So I

297
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Speaker 2: was interested in more information, and we had sat separately

298
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Speaker 2: because of the sparse seating. So I met up with

299
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Speaker 2: my girlfriend Erica and my cousin David, and we kind

300
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Speaker 2: of compared notes. Erica felt the same way. David wasn't

301
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Speaker 2: quite so sure. He was intrigued, but he went to

302
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Speaker 2: go back home and talk with his girlfriend, Susie Strom.

303
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Speaker 2: So we went back to Corvalis and I don't remember it.

304
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Speaker 2: The next day or two days later, we went to

305
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,200
Speaker 2: Eugene where the follow up meeting was. This was just

306
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,800
Speaker 2: a three of us ACND. Susie still wasn't able to come,

307
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Speaker 2: and we talked with some of the followers who had

308
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,920
Speaker 2: been with T and DOO for weeks or months. I

309
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:35,320
Speaker 2: didn't really get a definitive answer of is this legit?

310
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Speaker 2: You know, is this a real thing? Do you have proof?

311
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,400
Speaker 2: Is this real? But I got the sense from the

312
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,600
Speaker 2: people that I spoke with that it was real enough

313
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Speaker 2: in their experience that it meant that it was worth

314
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Speaker 2: leaving behind all aspects of their human life to find

315
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Speaker 2: out more about it. So everyone I spoke to seemed

316
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:09,640
Speaker 2: sincere and truthful. They weren't trying to pull the wool

317
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Speaker 2: over our eyes. So we decided we would take the

318
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Speaker 2: next step. So they took our phone numbers. They told

319
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Speaker 2: us they would call us in a week. They told

320
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Speaker 2: us to go home and tie up loose ends. Wow, wow,

321
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Speaker 2: and you get ready to be on the road for

322
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Speaker 2: a while. The belief from T and Do's talk and

323
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Speaker 2: from these other followers was that this process of preparation

324
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Speaker 2: would take months. It wouldn't take years. It wouldn't be

325
00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,720
Speaker 2: long and drawn out. That was the thought. So they said,

326
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Speaker 2: go home, time up to sends and we'll call you

327
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Speaker 2: and tell you where to meet the next day, Eric

328
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Speaker 2: and I left to go back to Calgary to tie

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Speaker 2: up loose ends.

330
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Speaker 4: Well, what was it that was appealing? You already have

331
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Speaker 4: this interest in UFOs and like extraterrestrial life, and it

332
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,679
Speaker 4: just like really appeals to that interest that you already have.

333
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Speaker 1: Is it the community? Is it the shared experience with Erica?

334
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Speaker 2: Like?

335
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Speaker 1: What about it was the most appealing to you?

336
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Speaker 2: Well, I felt like I had the opportunity to learn

337
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Speaker 2: things that I didn't think I could learn anywhere else.

338
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Speaker 2: So it was like this whole window into wisdom and

339
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,440
Speaker 2: knowledge that I'd never experienced before. At least that was

340
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,800
Speaker 2: my perception. I think Erica and David felt the same way.

341
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Speaker 2: So all four of us ended up joining the group.

342
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Speaker 2: So we received our phone call after a week, we

343
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Speaker 2: had tied up loose ends in Calgary.

344
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Speaker 4: And when you say tie up loose ends, does that

345
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Speaker 4: mean just like quit your jobs? Talk to your family

346
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Speaker 4: like what does that mean?

347
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Speaker 2: Yeah?

348
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Speaker 5: What was your life like that you had to tie up?

349
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Speaker 2: Well, there wasn't a lot to tie you up. I

350
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:09,640
Speaker 2: was a bartender at the time, so it didn't require

351
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,119
Speaker 2: a lot of notice. I think Erica was a hostess somewhere.

352
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 2: We were both in the restaurant business. We didn't tell

353
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Speaker 2: anyone really what we were doing. We were warned that

354
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Speaker 2: if we did that, they would try to talk us

355
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Speaker 2: out of it. So we just told my parents and

356
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Speaker 2: Erica told her parents, well, we're just going to travel

357
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Speaker 2: for a while around the US. We're going to meet

358
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Speaker 2: some friends. We're not sure how long we're going to

359
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 2: do it, but off we go. This is what we

360
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 2: want to do. And they didn't think much of it

361
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:49,040
Speaker 2: until weeks later when they didn't hear from us. So

362
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Speaker 2: we met in a place called Cherry Creek Campground just

363
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Speaker 2: outside of Denver. There are other people there family camping,

364
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 2: but it seems a bit like a carnival there because

365
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:08,399
Speaker 2: all kinds of people from all different meetings were meeting

366
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,120
Speaker 2: up there, you know, it was a little bit wild.

367
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Speaker 2: There was a lot of pot smoking, a lot of

368
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 2: hippie type people. They are mostly young. I was a

369
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:23,720
Speaker 2: little bit skeptic of did we make the right choice here,

370
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 2: But then you know, we found somebody who could tell

371
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 2: us what was going on, and then they moved everyone

372
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 2: off into groups of ten or twelve. There were two

373
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Speaker 2: group coordinators who had been with the ENDO for a while,

374
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 2: and they briefed us on what they knew, and then

375
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Speaker 2: in a few days we moved to a different campground,

376
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Speaker 2: and the whole thing was a vetting process in a

377
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Speaker 2: way of weeding out the people who were not serious.

378
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:58,200
Speaker 2: And then we moved to a third campground a week later,

379
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,959
Speaker 2: and at that point we had a chance to meet

380
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,639
Speaker 2: with T and do for the first time kind of

381
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Speaker 2: an additional layer of the vetting prossus. When I met

382
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:15,200
Speaker 2: and I felt like they could see my thoughts. Wow,

383
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:20,879
Speaker 2: I felt dirty, you know, I felt like I was impure.

384
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Speaker 2: And I don't know how much of this was my

385
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,439
Speaker 2: projection onto them, of putting them on a pedestal, but

386
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 2: they seemed like they were authorities of a kind that

387
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 2: I hadn't met before. Why dirty, impure, impure.

388
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, if somebody could read my thoughts, i'd feel pretty dirty.

389
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's stressful. I get that.

390
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 4: Did you know about the asexuality of the group at

391
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,239
Speaker 4: this point or that was that revealed sort of later on?

392
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 2: They may have talked about it generally we're going to

393
00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:01,239
Speaker 2: be getting rid of all mammalian behavior eventually, But they

394
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 2: didn't really go hardcore into no sex whatsoever, I think

395
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 2: until a year later when we gathered again.

396
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 4: So how long are you guys living on sort of

397
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 4: a nomadic lifestyle?

398
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 1: How long does this camping year?

399
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 2: A year?

400
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 5: A year?

401
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,400
Speaker 2: About a year and we crisscrossed the country. I don't

402
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,360
Speaker 2: know how many groups there were. Is there were as

403
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 2: many as two hundred and fifty people doing that, But

404
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 2: during that first year a lot of people fell away,

405
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 2: people went back to their lives. Shortly after we met, Tindo,

406
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 2: Erica and I were split up and we were given

407
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:39,400
Speaker 2: new check partners.

408
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 1: Can you explain what a check partner is?

409
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 2: Similar to how Jesus instructs his disciples in the Bible,

410
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 2: you will go out two by two and spread the

411
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 2: good news. The purpose of a check partner is as

412
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,199
Speaker 2: a sounding board. We were taught over and over and

413
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:03,120
Speaker 2: over again to not trust our own minds, to trust

414
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 2: our check partners judgment more than our own, so that

415
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 2: if both of us had that trust, we would arrive

416
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 2: at a decision that was best for everything and everyone,

417
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 2: basically without the interference of the eco mind. If that's

418
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 2: not really how they described it, But the goal was

419
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: to between the two of you arrive at what your

420
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 2: older member would decide. You weren't using your own mind,

421
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 2: You weren't using your own history, your own logic, right,

422
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 2: you were both reaching up to connect with your older

423
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 2: member's mind.

424
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 5: And did you find that, like decisions started to become better?

425
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 5: Were they clearer?

426
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 3: And I mean that sounds like just from a therapeutic

427
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 3: standpoint that it could actually work.

428
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 4: If it's someone who's wise though and has your best

429
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 4: in mind exactly.

430
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 2: That's the key is were we really connecting with our

431
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 2: older member's mind and were they actually receiving valid information

432
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 2: from their older member's mind. You and Do presented it

433
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 2: to us as if there was a chain of mind

434
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 2: that we were reaching up and connecting too, in effect

435
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 2: psychically or intuitively, and then you know, Doe would be

436
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 2: reaching up to his older member's mind and his older

437
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 2: member T would be reaching up to her older member's mind,

438
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: you know, not physically present on the surface of the earth.

439
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 2: That was the goal.

440
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 4: It's interesting, though, Megan, you see it as a therapeutically.

441
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 3: Sound I think what I'm thinking of as like AA

442
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 3: when you think contrary action, where your first instinct, sometimes

443
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 3: if you bounce it off another person, you get clarity

444
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: into how many decisions you're making based off of wrong information?

445
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 1: Right?

446
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah?

447
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 4: See, my when I hear that, my first thought is, oh,

448
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 4: that's priming everyone to stop thinking.

449
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 3: For themselves, trusting and trusting exactly exactly for sure.

450
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 2: Right, and I would agree with that. Probably the biggest

451
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 2: lesson of my life is to trust my own intuition. Right.

452
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 2: And in effect, the teachings of T and DO were

453
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: telling me not to telling me that I didn't have

454
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 2: the answer that they did, and most people would immediately

455
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 2: run away from that, you know, from anything is fringe.

456
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 2: Even at the point of hearing the first talk they

457
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: would say, these people are not they would run away.

458
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 2: For some reason. That didn't happen for me.

459
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: You were young and open minded and curious of me.

460
00:25:55,280 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 2: I was. I haven't lost that open mindedness. I I've

461
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: learned a lot about how to trust intuition. That was

462
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,719
Speaker 2: a slow journey post cult, but that has ended up

463
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 2: serving me well.

464
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 4: Right, So tell us more about this year. So things

465
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 4: aren't really strict yet. Have you changed your name yet?

466
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 4: Have you cut your hair yet? Or does that happen later?

467
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 2: We all took new names right off the bed pretty much.

468
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 2: I don't think we cut our hair. As a matter

469
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 2: of fact, I grew a beard well. Help we were

470
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 2: on the road. It was brown and not white. But

471
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 2: the meetings that we held for recruiting were like the

472
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: blind leading the blind. We knew very little, you know,

473
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 2: we learned more as we went along. Things were passed

474
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 2: down to us through drips and drabs. The coordinators would

475
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: have a scheduled phone call with the people surrounding teenan

476
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 2: dough once a week. The coordinators were given a phone

477
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 2: number to call, and then they would go to a

478
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 2: pay phone. There were no cell phones. This was nineteen

479
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 2: seventy five. And then the coordinators would come back to

480
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 2: their groups and share what they were given from the

481
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 2: helpers of t and do I think about twice maybe

482
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 2: we had a gathering. One was somewhere in maybe Colorado

483
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: with t and Do, And then there was another one

484
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 2: in Mississippi where we all got a chance to gather

485
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 2: and hear Tando speak, and that was really exciting because

486
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 2: we had very little contact with them. I had been

487
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 2: partnered with two different partners. There wasn't any connection and

488
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: there wasn't any negativity. We're just both neutral. So I said,

489
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 2: is something supposed to be going on here? Because I

490
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: heard a lot of other partners had triggering circumstances between

491
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: their partnerships and that was supposed to be of benefit

492
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 2: if we could work them out. So I was switched

493
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 2: to another partner. His name was Amos, so I took

494
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 2: the name Andy. You're Amos and Andy. At one point

495
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 2: we were in Phoenix, it was midnight, we had a

496
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,959
Speaker 2: place to stay, we were looking for it, and we

497
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,959
Speaker 2: had also swapped cars, and it was part of letting

498
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: go of all of our human connections, including our possessions.

499
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 2: So the little Fiat that I had come in with

500
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: was long gone, and we exchanged it for this old

501
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: beat up powder blue Plymouth with a hole in the

502
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 2: floorboard the driver's side. You could see the road going by.

503
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:37,479
Speaker 2: D done nothing, so I had no idea who the

504
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 2: owner of the car was. At one point, we're going

505
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: to go straight in an intersection and and Amos and

506
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 2: no turn left ere So I turned left from the

507
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 2: middle lane and I was pulled over by a policeman

508
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 2: and we both looked kind of scruffy. We both had beards,

509
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 2: longer hair, so the policeman, you know, was kind of

510
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: suspicious of us right off the bat, and he wondered

511
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 2: why we were driving somebody else's car, and we didn't

512
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 2: have a letter of permission or anything. But he couldn't

513
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 2: really find fault with our story, but he still wanted

514
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: to put me in jail for the night because we

515
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 2: had no money. So I spent the night in the

516
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 2: Tempe Arizona jail. I didn't have any cell mates, so

517
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: it was a little bit scary. Yeah, but I didn't sleep.

518
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 2: And eight point thirty came around, somebody came and let

519
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: me out. So I was outside looking for Amos. I

520
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: saw the blue Plymouth parked and he was in the

521
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: back seat sleeping, So I thought I probably had a

522
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 2: better sleep than he did. Anyway, We've spent the week

523
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: in Phoenix when on a meeting, we got one recruit

524
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 2: from that meeting. So Amos decided that he was going

525
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 2: to go off on his own with some peyote buttons

526
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 2: into the desert and talked to his older member and

527
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 2: determined what to do next.

528
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: An older means like metaphysically older, right.

529
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, wiser, okay, yeah, teacher. Right back then, it wasn't

530
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: super clear that our older member was dough and those

531
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 2: older member was tea. We thought we had to reach

532
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 2: up into the heavens to speak with our older member, right,

533
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 2: So that was what he was going to do, so

534
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: that I was going to be the tech partner with

535
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: our new recruit. So he and I set out in

536
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 2: his Citron, because Amos took the Blue Plymouth and we

537
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 2: were going to Florida. I don't remember what we talked about.

538
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: I'm sure we talked about what little teachings I knew

539
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 2: of T and O's. And then when we got to Miami,

540
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: he decided that he was going to wander the beach

541
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 2: and simply talk to his older member. So I ended

542
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 2: up with the Citron. All of the people in the

543
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 2: group that I was in had gone their separate way,

544
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 2: so I was the only one left in my group

545
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: still following. Oh so I had no way of contacting

546
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: the people around Tindo, except something almost miraculous happened. At

547
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: one point somebody at a place where I had gone

548
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 2: to ask for some assistance food and gas for the car.

549
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 2: They had received a call from Tindo's helpers. So the

550
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 2: people at this community center gave me a phone number

551
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: to call. So I did. I reconnected with my original

552
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 2: coordinator in Cherry Creek, Colorado.

553
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: Wow, a stroke of fate.

554
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. So they directed me to a group in New Mexico.

555
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 2: So I met up with them and there were ten

556
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 2: or twelve of us. So I was given a new

557
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 2: check partner, and off we went again. That was kind

558
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 2: of the nature of the first year. We were like gypsies,

559
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 2: crisscrossing the countryside, holding recruiting meetings.

560
00:31:59,240 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: Quick note here.

561
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 4: So I was kicking myself after this interview for not

562
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 4: asking why Frank still felt compelled to go back even

563
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 4: though everyone else had left and he was all alone.

564
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 4: So I asked him after the fact and he told

565
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 4: me this, and I quote A big piece of it

566
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 4: was the carrot as always of my belief in the

567
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 4: opportunity to ascend to the next level, and looking back

568
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 4: rolled into that was the fear of missing out. I

569
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 4: see the fallacy of NAT now because I feel I've

570
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 4: grown more self aware, but it was my motivation then.

571
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 3: And where was Erica during all of this? She was

572
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 3: just in a different so called pod like right, okay?

573
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 3: And were you guys still together or no?

574
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 2: Okay? But when we met up in Biloxi, everyone converged.

575
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 2: In Biloxi, Mississippi, she had been in a similar circumstance

576
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: in that she and her check partner were off on

577
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 2: their own and their group had completely disintegrated. Oh, she

578
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 2: didn't know what to do because she still wanted to

579
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 2: follow Teen Do. So she was actually in contact with

580
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 2: my parents in Calgary because she didn't feel like her

581
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: parents would be sympathetic to her continuing interesting with Team

582
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 2: Do because my parents were a little bit on the

583
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 2: wu Wu side anyway, nice because my mother gave me

584
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: the Edgar Casty Book and they sent my parents sent

585
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 2: Erica some money, and then she somehow got in touch

586
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 2: with everyone ended up in Biloxi, Mississippi, and we weren't together.

587
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: But I still had huge feelings for her, and those

588
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: actually never went away, except that I suppressed them over

589
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 2: the years.

590
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 4: Did you feel any resentment for being separated from her.

591
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 2: No, Because our thought was, even if, even if she's

592
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 2: the love of my life, if this opportunity to gain

593
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 2: membership in a completely different kingdom level above the human level,

594
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: even if if she's loved my life, that opportunity is

595
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 2: worth letting go of the love of my life. To me,

596
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 2: this was a once in a lifetime opportunity, right, But

597
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 2: that didn't stop me from, you know, feeling attraction for

598
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 2: her and feeling a deep connection with her.

599
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 3: Had you guys, gotten more details at this point about

600
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 3: the teachings, Were you more juiced in onto what was

601
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 3: happening and where you were heading?

602
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 2: And yeah, more and more. As time went on, we

603
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 2: learned more, and the more time we spent with Tea

604
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 2: and grow, the more we learned, the more discipline we

605
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 2: could apply using the teachings that they had passed on

606
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 2: to us, and the more things made sense, the more

607
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: we realized what we had signed on for, and there

608
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 2: was always new information that we hadn't encountered before.

609
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 4: Tell us about when the class begins, what happens. You

610
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 4: all kind of settle in one area, right, right, And.

611
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 2: It was wyoming where we were all called together. There

612
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,720
Speaker 2: could have been as many as two hundred people there,

613
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 2: and that was wild. That was like I think of

614
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 2: the children of Israel, you know, wandering in a wilderness,

615
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 2: the people who were unruly, and the people were unruly there.

616
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 2: It's crazy. So that was what Tindo wanted to do,

617
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 2: was kind of bring us together into the same mindset

618
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 2: and to help us establish some kind of discipline. First,

619
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 2: there was a lesson about kindness and consideration, things that

620
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 2: made sense. That was kind of a first basic essential lesson,

621
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 2: And a few weeks or months later, we had something

622
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 2: called the seventeen Steps, which were guidelines for how to

623
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 2: live in ways were becoming two members of the next level,

624
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 2: so that we would fit in there, so that we

625
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 2: wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb, so that we wouldn't.

626
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: Be disruptive once you get to the higher plane.

627
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 5: It's kind of like alien etiquette kind.

628
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 2: Of, yes, yeah, exactly.

629
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 4: I wrote down from some of what I heard, and

630
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 4: they included things like, can you follow instructions without adding interpretation?

631
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 4: Can you deliver instructions as you receive them so I'm hearing,

632
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 4: can you follow orders and do as we say and

633
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 4: be controlled by us? They forbade things like clumsiness, procrastination.

634
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 5: And even I'm not allowed in.

635
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: And even having private thoughts. Is that right?

636
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 2: Oh?

637
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is wild. You're not allowed to have private thoughts.

638
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 4: And then also arousal was forbidding.

639
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.

640
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 4: How did you feel about these steps? I mean, what

641
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 4: did you feel good about them?

642
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 2: Yeah? Because we were already to a degree brainwashed in

643
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 2: a sense, we were motivated. You know, it's like this

644
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 2: carrot out in front of us that if you do

645
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 2: as we teach you, you will graduate, you will ascend

646
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 2: to this next evolutionary level. And during that first year,

647
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: in the first several years, the idea was that we

648
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 2: would ascend while conscious and alive. Right, we would ascend

649
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: consciously into this next evolutionary level above human.

650
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: So tell us what vehicles means.

651
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 2: Vehicle is your body that you, as a soul inhabit,

652
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 2: which I would say is accurate to a degree, but

653
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: it's it was also considered the same as a car

654
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 2: would be to a driver, So the soul is the

655
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 2: driver of the car of the vehicle. T would often say,

656
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 2: get your mind into your vehicle, meaning get your vehicle

657
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 2: under control of your mind, kind of like a rider

658
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 2: on a horse. A rider doesn't let the horse run wild.

659
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 2: The rider keeps the horse doing what the rider wants

660
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: the horse to do.

661
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 4: So getting your sexual urges under control is a big

662
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 4: piece of that, right. I mean, so I am a

663
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 4: little familiar with that idea, just having grown up Mormon.

664
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 5: You are.

665
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 4: Sexuality is you know, there's a lot of shame around it,

666
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 4: and I felt a lot, you know, anytime I would

667
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 4: feel an urge or like masturbate or anything.

668
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: I just felt so ashamed after.

669
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 4: Did you you know how successful were you in suppressing

670
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 4: those urges or did you like feel shame like what

671
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 4: was going on there?

672
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 2: Well, when we were on the road, we're virtually always

673
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 2: in the presence of our check partner, and the goal

674
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,760
Speaker 2: in sight in the assignment of check partner was if

675
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 2: you could easily be attracted to a member of the

676
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 2: opposite sex or a member of the same sex that

677
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 2: was your sexual orientation, then they would partner with someone

678
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 2: who you would not be attracted to. You know, that

679
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 2: was the goal. It didn't always work out that way.

680
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 2: I mean, that's why some of the people left, is

681
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 2: because they found some that they were attracted to, and

682
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 2: they left with them. That's why I generally was partnered

683
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 2: with the male. Right.

684
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's kind of like Mormon missionaries. Actually, they're sent

685
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 4: out two by two and they're together twenty four to seven,

686
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 4: same sex, And yeah, their their behavior is just like

687
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 4: strictly constantly regulated by the presence of another person who's

688
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 4: trying to be righteous.

689
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: Right. Living in the same community started after the first year,

690
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 2: So from like September of seventy six to sometime in

691
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one, we lived in campgrounds or on BLM

692
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 2: land that's not Black Lives Matter, that's Bureau of Land Management.

693
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 2: Or we would get permission from ranch owners who had

694
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 2: these vast expanses of ranch lands, who camp on their property,

695
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 2: and so we would be unhindered and not interfered with

696
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 2: by curious people. You know. That was about five years

697
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 2: when we lived outside. I was outside all the time.

698
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 4: But then you get your cousin's trust fund kind of

699
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 4: starts funding a new lifestyles.

700
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 2: That right, I think Rob Balsh had that backwards. Oh,

701
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 2: his trust fund was funding us from seventy six to

702
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 2: eighty one, and then it ran out. We ran it dry,

703
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 2: and at that point half of us had get work

704
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: and then pool whenever funds came in to the group communally,

705
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 2: that's when we moved into houses. So there were as

706
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 2: many as thirty six of us living in house, and

707
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 2: yet we couldn't let on that there was that many

708
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 2: of us there, so only certain people could go outside

709
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 2: at that point.

710
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: Were you one of the people who went outside or

711
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: did you stay in the house.

712
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 2: I was one of the people who worked outside. But

713
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:19,399
Speaker 2: we had people called intercept or, you know, they were

714
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 2: assigned to be the interface between us and anyone who

715
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 2: would come to the door, so that it wasn't you know,

716
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 2: a different person each time that you would pretend to

717
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 2: be like the householder. Right. I worked outside the group

718
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,399
Speaker 2: initially as a waiter, and this was near San Antonio.

719
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 4: And at any point are you're you're really deep in

720
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 4: at this point, I'm assuming everyone sort of has the

721
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 4: same haircut, kind of like my hair, right, and you know,

722
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 4: dressing the same and living this lifestyle because you're interfacing

723
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 4: with the outside world war. Is there any point at

724
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 4: which you're questioning or does that not happen till later?

725
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 2: Periodically, doubt would come up in my mind and I

726
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:08,959
Speaker 2: would stuff it down because it was like the doubt

727
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 2: would be is this really gonna happen? Or you know,

728
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 2: can I really do this? Can I really hack all

729
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:20,720
Speaker 2: of the requirements of this? Because you asked earlier how

730
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 2: successful was I regarding sexuality? And there were weeks and

731
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 2: months where I didn't think about yet at all. I

732
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 2: was too busy, too focused on other things. And then

733
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 2: there were times when I would it would be this

734
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 2: internal battle, like you say, guilt and shame about having slipped.

735
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 2: You know, there were slippages, and then there were major

736
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 2: slippages sensuality, sexuality. It was a major slippage. Over time,

737
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 2: we had more and more and more guidelines and procedures

738
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 2: and things to follow, the ways of being and thinking

739
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 2: and acting and behaving and speaking and eating and sleeping,

740
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 2: showering in the morning. Everything was regimented.

741
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 4: I remember hearing even the size of your pancakes was

742
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 4: regulated and how much syrup was poured on top of them.

743
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 4: That is a very high control group right there.

744
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 3: When did the plan of the Comet come into being

745
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 3: or was that always no?

746
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 2: That was when the world heard about the Commet. That's

747
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 2: when they got the hair brained idea that it was

748
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 2: their time to leave. That was in nineteen ninety seven

749
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 2: or the end of nineteen ninety six when the comet

750
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 2: was discovered by two people, Hail.

751
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 1: And Bob, And you'd been out already by that point.

752
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was left in August of ninety three.

753
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 4: I see, are you living with Doh and te or

754
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 4: are you in a sort of like a separate household.

755
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 2: For a while, they did live with this house. Eventually

756
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 2: they felt like they could think better being separate from us,

757
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 2: being separate from our vibrations, so they got their own

758
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 2: separate house, their own separate quarters. They rented a smaller

759
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 2: house Classic. So we had different star groups, four different

760
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 2: star groups that this started in campgrounds. I think we

761
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 2: had forty eight people. So we had formal out Proceeon,

762
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: alt Air, and Serious. We went by numbers one through twelve,

763
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 2: I think, and I.

764
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 1: Was P one, that's your name? That was what you

765
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: went by?

766
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 2: That was I think we even had name tags.

767
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: Wow, P one one very dehumanizing.

768
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 3: Is it kind of like Harry Potter houses like Slytherin?

769
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 2: Is it that?

770
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 5: What it is? Is that the vibe or well.

771
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: It's kind of like that, but that's not the vibe.

772
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 5: Not the vibe, got it right? But kind of the same.

773
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't serious. It was Lera anyway. Yeah, So

774
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 2: this was eighty five and we were in Dallas, Texas.

775
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 2: At this point, I had moved up from being a

776
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:18,879
Speaker 2: waiter to being a medical receptionist, and then I got

777
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 2: a job at Microsoft in their Dallas sales office. We

778
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 2: would go to work and we would pretend to be normal.

779
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 5: I understand that feeling completely.

780
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 2: I'd pretend to be a husband to somebody, and you know,

781
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 2: I had to go home to my wife at the

782
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 2: end of the day, and so I couldn't participate in,

783
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 2: you know, going out to the bar or whatever. You know,

784
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 2: if anybody would ask me to do that, right, Sorry,

785
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 2: I can't. I have other plans.

786
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: Can you tell us about when t got cancer and

787
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: what that experience was like.

788
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 2: She had cancer twice. Once when we were in campgrounds,

789
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 2: she had cancer of the She had cancer in her eye,

790
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 2: so she had her eye removed and she had a

791
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 2: prosthetic put in, and you know, everybody thought, well, okay,

792
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 2: that's good. I'm glad you had it taken care of.

793
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 2: It's over and done with. And then we moved into

794
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 2: houses around nineteen eighty one, and then nineteen eighty five,

795
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 2: we learned that t was sick again and they had

796
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 2: separate quarters, so we didn't We didn't see Tando for

797
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 2: quite a while, and then they had two helpers go

798
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 2: help t and do while t was sick. In general,

799
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 2: there were people who were trusted or by t and

800
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 2: do to follow instructions, to be disciplined, to get things right.

801
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 2: These two helpers would go and stay at Tando's place,

802
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,919
Speaker 2: called it crafts. It wasn't a house craft as in spacecraft.

803
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 2: So we had the main craft and we had their craft.

804
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 2: So we were all curious about what was going on.

805
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 2: And then it was only like two or three weeks

806
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 2: before Tea passed on and she had their cancer. So

807
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 2: the cancer head spread all throughout her body right, and

808
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 2: this was never in the plant, of course, and so

809
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 2: we were all devastated, particularly Dough. He was heartbroken because

810
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: this was his older member. And he came for a

811
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 2: meeting with us and said, I'm not sure we should

812
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 2: continue with the class, and virtually everyone said, no, we

813
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 2: have to, we have to keep going. We believe and

814
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 2: you we believe in the next evolutionary level of humans,

815
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 2: so you know, we were all completely on board. So

816
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 2: he continued, Was.

817
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 4: It confusing, Like, how did you reconcile this idea that

818
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,280
Speaker 4: you know you are going to phys transform from your

819
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 4: vehicles with T's vehicle actually just dying. What was the

820
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 4: justification for that?

821
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 7: Well, the party line, I guess was we were taking

822
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 7: too long and he had to go on ahead and

823
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 7: prepare a place.

824
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 2: For us get ready for our graduation. And because we

825
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 2: were taking too long, Tea decided to exit her vehicle

826
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 2: that way. Right, But Tea's passing in that way had

827
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 2: a huge impact on those thinking about how the graduation

828
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 2: would occur, and that worked on him over the coming

829
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 2: months and years, to the point where he began to

830
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 2: entertain ideas of how we might do our vehicles in

831
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 2: which was entirely diametrically posed to the way it was

832
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 2: originally presented.

833
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: How was it originally percent we will be taken up

834
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 1: in a craft.

835
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 2: Well, we're conscious, we will listen well, conscious and.

836
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 4: Alive, and we will leave that there for now, to

837
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 4: be continued in part two next week. Okay, Megan, we've

838
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 4: come to the part in the story where I ask

839
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 4: you do you think that you would join Heaven's Gate?

840
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: Yes, I do, tell me more.

841
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:19,760
Speaker 5: No, bullshit.

842
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 3: I mean, anybody who watches the documentary and is like,

843
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 3: I'm not intrigued by that is, in my opinion, boring.

844
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:30,760
Speaker 1: It's I'm boring.

845
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:36,720
Speaker 3: It's basically like two of the oddest people ever saying

846
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 3: that they are communicating with aliens. Essentially, I would be

847
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 3: excited by their message. I guess my is my takeaway.

848
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm.

849
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 4: It's all about transcending the body and UFO life.

850
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: I see the appeal for sure. I could see you

851
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: joining it.

852
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 3: I can definitely see myself going to a few meetings

853
00:49:58,000 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 3: and you know, getting excited.

854
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: I think it wouldn't appeal to me. But the alien stuff,

855
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 1: what do you like that alien stuff?

856
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 2: Oh?

857
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 5: I like that alien stuff. I know, I know, you

858
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 5: know what I do.

859
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, New age stuff is not really my bag,

860
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 4: as we all kind of know by now.

861
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: But who's to say. Who's to say it is.

862
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 4: Sort of in that science fiction category of cults, kind

863
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 4: of like scientology, where it could be new ag or

864
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 4: it could seem like it's just sort of the forefront

865
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 4: of science in a way exactly which I think would

866
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 4: be really appealing.

867
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think that they were ahead of

868
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 5: their time.

869
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,439
Speaker 4: The ancient folks also believed they would be taken away

870
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:35,879
Speaker 4: by people from the sky.

871
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: So in a way, it's the tale as old as time.

872
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 3: They were definitely with what the aliens. The Egyptians for sure.

873
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: Debate for another time.

874
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it would be tempting to me.

875
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 4: One of the other guys from the docuseries still believes

876
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 4: to this day. Yeah, he wasn't a part of the

877
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 4: suicide and he still really believes. And there are a

878
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 4: couple people who still really believe, which is wild.

879
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 1: It's wild.

880
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 4: It must have, you know, just it really resonated with

881
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 4: them even after the suicides. Well, anyway, there's so much

882
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 4: more to explore. Next week, Frank is gonna tell us

883
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 4: how he decided to leave and what it was like

884
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 4: when he lost his friends of so many years, and

885
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 4: real heartbreaking.

886
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:21,720
Speaker 5: And very enlightening.

887
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we'll see you next week, y'all.

888
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, thanks for listening, guys.

889
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 3: Remember, follow your gut, watch out for flags.

890
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: Never ever trust me. Bye bye, guys.