1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. Happy October, the best month of the year. 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: We are kicking off our October classics with our October 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: eleven episode on the Green Children of wool pitt Enjoy 4 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History class a production 5 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 6 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. Still in 7 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: our favorite month of the year, October. October, Yes, Halloween season, 8 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: and so we have an episode that I know a 9 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: lot of people have requested that the only person I 10 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: wrote down was Betty, So thank you Betty and everyone 11 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: that I forgot to write down in addition to Betty. 12 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: It is a topic that was written about in the 13 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: twelfth and thirteen centuries as a factual thing that really happened, 14 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: but some people today classify at more as folklore. And 15 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: it is the Green Children of Woolpit who made a 16 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: really eerie appearance in Suffolk, England in the twelfth century. 17 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: We accidentally have a little theme of like odd happenings 18 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 1: in England at the beginning of this folloween season. We're 19 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: kicking off with weird English stuff apparently, and by today's standards, 20 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,919 Speaker 1: the village of Wolpit is quite small, with a population 21 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: of only about two thousand people traveling by car. It's 22 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,559 Speaker 1: a couple of hours northeast of London. That's about thirty 23 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: six miles or fifty kilometers east of Cambridge. And in 24 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 1: the twelfth century the area was not exactly bustling, but 25 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: it was more densely populated than much of rural England, 26 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: and it was a thriving agricultural center. So according to 27 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: the story, one day in Wolpit, two children, a boy 28 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: and a girl, emerged from a series of pits that 29 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: were used for trapping wolves. These these wolf pits, and 30 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: not the fabric of wool are where wolf It gets 31 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: its name is named after wolf pits. There are two 32 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: chronicles of this event and what happened after these two 33 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 1: children appeared. What is by Ralph Abbot of Cogschal, who 34 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: wrote his explanation of what happened as part of the 35 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: Chronicon anglican Um, and the other is by William of 36 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: Newburgh and the Historia Rerum Anglicarum, or the History of 37 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: English Affairs, and both men wrote these accounts in Latin. 38 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: A translation of William's version by Joseph Stevenson is part 39 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: of a truly colossal set of volumes called The Church 40 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: Historians of England, which was published in eighteen fifty three 41 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: and is available online archive dot org if you want 42 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: to check it out. Stevenson translated Ralph's version two, but 43 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: we couldn't find that part of the chronicon anglican Um 44 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: in English online, so instead of subjecting everyone to Ralph's Latin, 45 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: shoved through Google Translate, which is a hilarious activity if 46 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: you ever want to want to get some comedy in 47 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 1: your life. We're going to read stevenson translation of William's version. 48 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,119 Speaker 1: I did, indeed of Ralph's Latin version through Google Translate, 49 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: and that was my amusement for a good chunk of afternoon. 50 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: Before we get to William's version of this story, though, 51 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: I want to have a brief digression about Joseph Stevenson 52 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: because he is a character. He was the son of 53 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: a surgeon, but he also helped his uncle out in 54 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: his job as a smuggler. In his youth. He was 55 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: not particularly a good student either. While he was enrolled 56 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: at a grammar school that was attached to Durham Cathedral 57 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: for some reason, he was keeping a loaded pistol among 58 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: his possessions, which went off while being handled by a servant, 59 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: and according to the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, that 60 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: that had quote dramatic, although not grave, consequences. I feel 61 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: like a tea set must have been destroyed, and other 62 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: things as well. It gave no detail, but it makes 63 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: it sound like Fortunately no one was harmed in this 64 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: accidental discharge of a firearm, but there was some dramatic incident. 65 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: And in spite of this checkered background, Stevenson wound up 66 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: working at the British Museum. He married and he had 67 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: two children, and then he changed courses to join the 68 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: clergy after he was traumatized by the death of his brother. 69 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: He became a priest after the death of his wife. 70 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: So where we come around to these monumental volumes of 71 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: translated works of history. He turned out to really have 72 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: a knack for translating and editing historical documents. He did 73 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: a lot of work for the Historical Manuscript's Commission. He 74 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: put together a bunch of different gigantic collections of historical 75 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:40,679 Speaker 1: documents for various different clubs and historical societies. These ranged 76 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: from four to eight volumes in length. Some of them 77 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: were these gargantia wine editions of old religious and secular histories, 78 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: and this was just his thing. Apparently he was also 79 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: extremely personable and generous as well. So this is the 80 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: guy that did the translation of the thing that we 81 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: were about to read. Yeah. Worthy of a little many 82 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: biography there for sure. Uh And back to the story. 83 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: In Stevenson's translation, William begins his account by saying that 84 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem right to skip over the story of 85 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: the Green Children, but at the same time he had 86 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: some doubts about the matter. It seemed both ridiculous and mysterious. 87 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: But at the same time he had heard about it 88 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: from so many people, all of them very respectable and competent, 89 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: that he was quote compelled to believe. I feel like 90 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: this is a twelfth century version of the X Files poster. 91 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 1: I know, well, it's also a great that couching that 92 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: happens for spooky stories. And like, I know, this is ridiculous, 93 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: but there are enough reasonable people to believe it that 94 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: there must be truth in it. Yes, So we are 95 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: going to read his whole account because I love it 96 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: and I want to share it with all of you. 97 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: And it's a bit long. So we are going to 98 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: take turns. As we recently did when we talked about 99 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: the Devil's Hoof prints. We took turns on a rather 100 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: lengthy passages. So we're going to do again today. So 101 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: he he got into the story, saying, in East Anglia, 102 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: there is a village distant, as it is said four 103 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: or five miles from the noble monastery of the Blessed 104 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: King and Martyr Edmund. Near this place are seen some 105 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: very ancient cavities called wolf pits, that in English pits 106 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: for wolves, and which give their name to the adjacent village. 107 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: During harvest, while the reapers were employed in gathering the 108 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: produce of the fields, two children, a boy and a girl, 109 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: completely green in their persons and clad in garments of 110 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: a strange color and unknown materials, emerged from these excavations. 111 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: While wandering through the fields in astonishment. They were seized 112 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,799 Speaker 1: by the reapers and conducted to the village, and many 113 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: persons coming to see so novel as sight. They were 114 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: kept some days without food, but when they were nearly 115 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: exhausted with hunger and yet could relish no species of 116 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: support which was offered to them, it happened that some 117 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: beans were brought in from the field, which they immediately 118 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: seized with avidity, and examined the stock for the pulse, 119 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: but not finding it in the hollow of the stock, 120 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: they wept bitterly upon this. One of the by standards, 121 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: taking the beans from the pods, offered them to the children, 122 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: who seized them directly and ate them with pleasure. This 123 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: next sentence is my favorite sentence, and the entire thing 124 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: by this food. They were supported for many months until 125 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: they learned the use of bread at length by degrees. 126 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: They changed their original color through the natural effect of 127 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: our food, and became like ourselves, and also learned our language. 128 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: It seemed fitting to certain discreet persons that they should 129 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: receive the sacrament of baptism, which was administered accordingly. The boy, 130 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: who appeared to be the younger, surviving his baptism but 131 00:07:55,560 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: a little time, died prematurely. His sister, however, con and you, 132 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: did in good health, and differed not in the least 133 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: from the women of our own country. Afterwards, as it 134 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: is reported, she was married at Lynne and was living 135 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: a few years since, at least, so they say. Moreover, 136 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: after they had acquired our language, on being asked who 137 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: and whence they were, they are said to have replied, 138 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: we are inhabitants of the land of St. Martin, who 139 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: was regarded with peculiar veneration in the country which gave 140 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: us birth. Being further asked where that land was and 141 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: how they came thence hither they answered, we are ignorant 142 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: of both these circumstances, and we only remember this that 143 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: on a certain day, when we were feeding our father's 144 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: flocks in the fields, we heard a great sound, such 145 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: as we are now accustomed to hear at St. Edmund's 146 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: when the bells are charming. And whilst listening to the 147 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: sound and admiration, we became, on a sudden as it 148 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: were entranced, and found ourselves among you in the fields 149 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: where you were reaping. Being questioned whether in that land 150 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 1: they believed in Christ or whether the sun arose. They 151 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: replied that the country was Christian and possessed churches. But said, 152 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 1: they quote, the sun does not rise upon our countrymen. 153 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: Our land is little cheered by its beams. We are 154 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: contented with that twilight which among you precedes the sunrise 155 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: or follows the sun set. Moreover, a certain luminous country 156 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: is seeing not far distant from ours, and divided from 157 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: it by a very considerable river. These and many other 158 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: matters too numerous to particularize. They are said to have 159 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: recounted to curious inquirers. Let everyone say as he pleases, 160 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: and reason on such matters according to his abilities. I 161 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: feel no regret at having recorded an event so prodigious 162 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 1: and miraculous. So that's the story. I know. Obviously they 163 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,079 Speaker 1: were asked a whole lot of other questions, but it 164 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: tickles me that the ones that he was compelled to 165 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: write down here were do you believe in Christ? And 166 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: also does the sun exists there? Uh? Yeah, maybe they 167 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 1: thought they were from another planet. Realm that's gonna come up. Yeah, 168 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: Obviously we're going to take a quick break before we 169 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 1: get into some of the historical elements that relate to 170 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: this story. Overall, Williams and Ralph's versions of what happened 171 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 1: with these Green children are consistent with each other, although 172 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: Williams is a little bit longer and it has a 173 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: few more details. Both agreed that the children were taken 174 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: to the home of Lord Richard de Cown, who lived 175 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: in Wikes, which is about six miles to the north 176 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: of a little pit. Williams mentioned of this isn't a footnote, 177 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: which we didn't read, which is why it probably does 178 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: not ring a bell. They both talk about the children 179 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: having green skin and only eating beans, and eventually assimilating 180 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: with the rest of the community, with the brother dying 181 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: sometimes after being baptized, and unlike in the version we read, though, 182 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: Ralph makes it sound as though only the sister lived 183 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: long enough to tell their story. He doesn't mention a 184 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: particular name for where they came from, and there's no 185 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: certain luminous country that they could see from their home. 186 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: There's also a slight difference in the two accounts concerning 187 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: how the children claimed that they came to be in Wolpit. 188 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: We read in William's version that they had been tending 189 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: the flocks before hearing a loud noise, quotes such as 190 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: we are now accustomed to hear at St. Edmunds when 191 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: the bells are chiming, but they didn't otherwise know how 192 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: they had wound up in Wolpit. Ralph, on the other hand, said, 193 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: the children reported that they had become disoriented while tending cattle, 194 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: and they got lost, and then they followed the sound 195 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: of chiming bells through a long series of underground passages 196 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: before emerging emerging from a cave near Wolpit. So bells 197 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: are involved in both of them in a slightly different way. 198 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: One is sort of like they're hoping to get home 199 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: theoretically right, and the other is just that the bells 200 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: put them in some odd mental state, that they went 201 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: into a fugue state and traveled to Wulpit. Yes, okay. 202 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: The two accounts do diverge in what happened to the 203 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: surviving sister of the pair as well. So we read 204 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 1: in William's account that she married a man living in Lynn, 205 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: but Ralph says that she became a servant in Lord 206 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: Richard de Cown's house and lived there for many years, 207 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: not necessarily happily, though he calls her quote very wanton 208 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 1: and impudent. Regardless, William indicates that she was still living 209 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: when he wrote his chronicle down, and there's been some 210 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: discussion about exactly when in the twelfth century this event 211 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: might have happened. William of Newburgh lived from roughly eleven 212 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: thirty six to eleven His version was probably written down 213 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: towards the end of his life. Ralph's version made it 214 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: into print after William's death sometime around twelve twenty, so 215 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: a lot of times we would think okay, the later 216 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: account is probably not quite as accurate. But even though 217 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: Ralph's version was written down later, he actually lived a 218 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: lot closer to Woolpit than William did. He said he 219 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: had learned the story directly from Lord Richard to count 220 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: himself um, whereas William was hearing it all at least 221 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: second hand. And William notes that it was at harvest 222 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: time during the reign of King Stephen, which was from 223 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: eleven thirty five to eleven fifty four. Ralph, on the 224 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: other hand, says that it took place during the reign 225 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: of his successor, Henry the Second, which was from eleven 226 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: fifty four to eleven eighty nine. Author and archaeologist Brian 227 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: Haughton points out that there's no mention of the children 228 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: in the Anglo Saxon Chronicle, which documents English history up 229 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: until Steven's death and includes a number of other odd 230 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: and wondrous stories. It's certainly possible that the Green Children 231 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: aren't in the Anglo Saxon Chronicle because its authors didn't 232 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: know about it, or just didn't think it needed to 233 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 1: be included. But if it's not included because it hadn't 234 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: happened yet, that would put the time frame into Henry 235 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: the seconds reign rather than Stephen. And regarding William's notation 236 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: of it being harvest time, the beans that they were 237 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: eating would have been broad beans, which are more commonly 238 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: known as fava beans in the United States. Those were 239 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: picked around July in August, so that's the approximate time 240 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: of year, and there is a lot to suggest that 241 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: something really did happen. The two accounts seem to have 242 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: been written completely independently of one another, and although William 243 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: does a bit of protesting about how he knows that 244 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: this story sounds unbelievable, both men wrote as though they 245 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: were documenting a real event that actually happened. At the 246 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: same time, when both men were writing, purportedly mystical, supernatural 247 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: and miraculous events were a lot more likely to be 248 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: accepted at face value than they might be today. It 249 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: was pretty much normal to write down something as odd 250 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: as two green children crawling out of a wolf pit 251 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: and just accepting the idea that something supernatural was at 252 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: work without really having to examine it further. The story 253 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: of the Green Children of Wolpit definitely stuck around into 254 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: the thirteenth century, and from there it became a little 255 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: more obscure outside the immediate area until the late fifteen hundreds, 256 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: when the first printed edition of Williams Historia Rim and 257 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: Glacaram came out. A new edition that came out in 258 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: sixteen ten also included Ralph's version to the story as 259 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: a compliment to Williams. With that, it started making more 260 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: appearances in written works by other authors, who sometimes got 261 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: understandably confused about which version was Ralph's and which which 262 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: version was Williams. I in fact got few confused about 263 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: that repeatedly when working on this podcast. It's easy to 264 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: do retellings of the story from the fifteenth century and beyond. Also, 265 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: we're not usually quite as credulous as Ralph and William 266 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: had been. William Camden writing in his work Britannia in 267 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: six is one example. Here's his description, and I wish 268 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: I could share all of the delightful spelling in his 269 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: description with everyone. It's pretty great. It's pretty awesome. Wolp 270 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: It is a market town which meant merchant and soundeth 271 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: as much as the wolves pit, and if we may 272 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: believe new Brigensis, who had told as pretty and formal 273 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: a tale of the place as is that fable called 274 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: the True Narration of Lucian, namely, how two little boys 275 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: forsuit of green color hand of Sadder's kind, after they 276 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: had made a long journey by passages underground, from out 277 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: of another world, from the antipoties in St. Martin's Land, 278 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: came up here of whom you would know more repair 279 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: to the author himself, where you will find such a 280 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: matter as will make you laugh, your phil if you 281 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: have a laughing spleen, I feel like I definitely have 282 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: a laughing spleen. I think so yet that we have 283 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: um made that prognosis. It's official. I will call my 284 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: family doctor uh. New Brigensis was a name for William 285 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: of Newburgh. The quote True Narration of Lucian is a 286 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: second century satire by Lucian of sam Asada which details 287 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: a trip to the moon that would rival our great 288 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: Moon Hoax episode. There's a whole bit about men with 289 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 1: dogs heads that fight from winged acorns and flees as 290 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: big as twelve elephants. Oh, that's terrifying, and warriors armed 291 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: with radishes flung from slings. I love all of this. 292 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: This work is obviously not meant to be taken as fact, 293 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: and Camden obviously does not take the Green Children seriously 294 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 1: at all. From there, the story of the Green Children 295 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 1: started to influence other more fanciful works. Francis Godwin, The 296 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: Man in the Moon or a Discourse of a Voyage Thither, 297 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: which he called a quote essay of fancy, talks about 298 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: a novel disciplinary method employed by parents on the Moon 299 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: where they would send their unruly children down to Earth 300 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: and brings them earthly children back in their place. And 301 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: in this whole story he made reference to quote certain 302 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: stories he had heard confirming this idea was true, and 303 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: those certain stories were Williams Historia Realm and Lacaram. I 304 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: want to know what happened to the earthly kids that 305 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: lived on the moon. Did they eventually get fed beans 306 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: and turned green? There's so many questions, he might say, 307 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: I didn't read the whole thing. The Green Children have 308 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: continued to make appearances in fiction into the twentieth century 309 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: and beyond. Herbert Reid's novel The Green Child came out 310 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty four. The Green Children of Banos, set 311 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: in Spain in eighty seven, was part of John Macklin's 312 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: nive book Strange Destinies. The Spanish setting is echoed in 313 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: the nine ten thousand Maniacs on Green Children, which starts 314 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: in August day in the hills of Spain, a pair 315 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,239 Speaker 1: of children emerged from a cave. And of course there 316 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: are lots of other stories and books and TV episodes 317 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: and the like that all draw from this as well. 318 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: And it's not totally clear whether the Green Children are 319 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: the inspiration for the basic idea of Martians as little 320 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: green men, but they were definitely described as green, and 321 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: people were also speculating that maybe they were aliens. Early 322 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: and as the sixteenth century and outside of the world 323 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: of fiction, the Green Children also started being written about 324 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: as folklore in the nineteenth century. In eighteen fifty, Thomas 325 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: Kitely included bits of both Williams and Ralph's accounts in 326 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: his work Fairy Mythology. This was the first time the 327 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 1: story was available to people who did not read Latin, 328 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: and since it was in a book by a folklorist 329 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: called Fairy Mythology, a lot of people from this point 330 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: assumed that story was inherently folkloric. Sometimes they're specifically fairies, 331 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: such as in Catherine Briggs Dictionary of Fairies, which came 332 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: out in nineteen seventy six, and there are also people 333 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: who interpret them as forest spirits or personifications of nature. 334 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: I feel like the whole, like fairy myth right up 335 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: through Tinkerbell, is very informed by all of this. About 336 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: the same time as Kitelie was documenting the story as folklore, 337 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: the Green Children were also becoming more widely known to 338 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 1: the general public. In eighteen seventy five, a guide book 339 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,239 Speaker 1: to East Anglia referenced to the Green Children, and then 340 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: other mentions and other travel guides followed, as you know, 341 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: interesting points of interests and interesting tidbits about the place 342 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: that you're visiting. A sign at will Pit honoring the story. 343 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 1: It was erected in nineteen seventy seven, is part of 344 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: Queen Elizabeth Silver Jubilee, and today the story is like 345 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: they're on the Village of Wilpit's web page. And of 346 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 1: course there are also a lot of rational or not 347 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: so rational explanations for what was really going on here, 348 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: and we're going to dive into those possibilities. After we 349 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: first paused for a little sponsor break, So unsurprisingly, there 350 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 1: are lots of hypotheses about who the Green Children were 351 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: and where they came from. One connects them to the 352 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 1: Babes in the Wood, which was first written down as 353 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: a ballad in and The basic story of the Babes 354 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: in the Wood is that a very greedy uncle was 355 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: guardian to two young children, and he was hoping to 356 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: steal their fortunes, so he hired some men to take 357 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: them into the woods and murder them. As so often 358 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: happens in these kinds of stories, the men he hired 359 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: didn't have the heart to do it and abandoned them instead, 360 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: so in the story, they eventually starved. This folk tale 361 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: is typically set in Wayland Wood, which is about thirty 362 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: miles or forty eight kilometers away from Woolpit, so people 363 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: suggesting that the Green Children were really the Babes in 364 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,160 Speaker 1: the Wood just moved the location closer by, and also 365 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: about four hundred years earlier than the ballads first written appearance. 366 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 1: That definitely doesn't mean the ballad didn't exist earlier, but 367 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: like four hundred years of a long time for a 368 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: ballad to go without being written down, or story to 369 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: go without being written down, at least by this point 370 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: in history. So compounding the kind of far fetchedness of 371 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: this explanation is they go to rationale for why they 372 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: were green, which is chlorosis, otherwise known as green sickness. Now, 373 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: while there are rare forms of anemia that can cause 374 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: a person to have a kind of greenish pallor, along 375 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: with the idea that people who are really nauseated are 376 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: described as looking green, sometimes green sickness is not that. 377 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: Green sickness was described in medical literature from the sixteenth 378 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: to late nineteenth century. It was diagnosed almost exclusively in 379 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: young women, and it was also called the virgin's disease. 380 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: The symptoms included things like restlessness, irritability, fatigue, too little appetite, 381 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: too much appetite, indigestion, headache, and an absence of menstrual periods. 382 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: Treatments included blood letting, marriage always on a prescription path, 383 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 1: and medicines to bring on men'stru will flow. To be clear, 384 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: marriage really meant sex in this case, and there are 385 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: some extremely suggestive ballads dating back to the sixteenth and 386 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: seventeen centuries about treatments, and we're using the air quotes 387 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: there for green sickness. There's actually a Sawbones episode about 388 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: green sickness if you want to hear a whole lot 389 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: more about this. It also does not really take a 390 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 1: lot of Google effort to find these extremely suggestive ballads 391 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: ballads about how to treat green sickness. So obviously they 392 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: probably didn't have green sickness because that's not a real thing, right. 393 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: And also those in in this sort of combination story 394 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: of the green children in the Babes in the Wood, 395 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: the folks who don't suggest that maybe they had clurosis 396 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: often suggest that maybe the hired men did actually try 397 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: to kill them using arsenic, that they had survived with 398 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: the arsenic had turned their skin green. This is a 399 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: weird conflation of sort of two different historical things. While 400 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: arsenic has deaf and only been used to make green dies, 401 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: it was typically exposure to those dies that made a 402 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: person's skin turned green, not surviving an attempt to be 403 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: poisoned with it. Right oar snake in itself does not 404 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: carry that pigment right to a person's person. I guess 405 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: if you tried to murder someone with green note, which 406 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 1: you could have done. You could have done, then you 407 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: might have green skin, you'll be so fashionable and deceased. Yeah, 408 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: that would be a weird way to murder people. I'll 409 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: make a great story for any of our writers out there. 410 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: You just take that one. Uh. The idea that the 411 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: Green Children might have been aliens, which I love, goes 412 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: all the way back to William Camden, who suggested that 413 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: they were either Satyrs meaning wild men, or Antipodeans meaning aliens. 414 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: Robert Burton also made a passing reference to the idea 415 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: that they may have come from another planet in Anatomy 416 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: of Melancholy, which was published in sixty one. So the 417 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: aliens hypothes this has been around for a really long 418 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: time and it has persisted to the present. In article 419 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: in Analog, which is a science fiction magazine, Duncan Lunin 420 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: asserted that they were from a human colony on an 421 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: alien planet, sent here through a malfunctioning transporter. And this 422 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: explanation also involves the Knights Templar in some way. This 423 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: is one of the few things I didn't actually get 424 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: to read for myself all the way through, some relying 425 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: on someone else's synopsis of it. But uh, Interestingly, in 426 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: a much more down to earth portion of this article, 427 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 1: he also pieced together a family treat for Richard to 428 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: count and claims that the surviving sister was baptized as 429 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: Agnes and that the man she married was a royal 430 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: official named Richard Barr. So that's a fascinating, possibly totally 431 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 1: legit historical fact in the context of this overall Aliens 432 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: article with the Knights Templar involved, I wonder if that 433 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: means that someone could trace their alien heritage. It's all 434 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: the way back to Agnes, and you could know that 435 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: you are part from another planet, which you really all are, 436 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: because we're all made to start us to some degree. 437 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,959 Speaker 1: True story, we're all aliens. The most complete practical explanation 438 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: for what might have happened came from Paul Harris in 439 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: and that was published in forty in Studies, which is 440 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: an offshoot of Forty Times. I actually used a lot 441 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: of writing from one of the editors there for Our 442 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: Devil's Footprints episode uh, and that's a magazine that's devoted 443 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: to strange phenomena, and he suggests that all of this 444 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 1: really happened in eleven seventy three in the Reign of 445 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 1: Henry the Second. In brief, Harris suggests that these were 446 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: the children of Flemish immigrants, and that their parents were 447 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: killed at the Battle of Fornhum in eleven seventy three. 448 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: The St. Martin's land that the sister referred to was 449 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: Fornhum St Martin roughly ten miles or sixteen kilometers from Wolpit, 450 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: so not that far away, and also not far from 451 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 1: the River Lark, so there would have been a river nearby. 452 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: According to this theory, they escaped the battle and then 453 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 1: the two children fled into Thetford forest and took refuge 454 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,360 Speaker 1: in flint mines there before following the bells from Barry St. 455 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: Edmund's to find their way out and make their way 456 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: to Wolpit. So their unknown tongue and clothing were just 457 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: Flemish and their skin was greenish due to malnutrition due 458 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: to this extended time of being abandoned and wandering in 459 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: flint mines. That all holds up. Uh. It all sounds 460 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: like it fits so very well, but of course there 461 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: are a few problems. One, the Flemish people killed at 462 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: Fornham were mercenaries hired to fight with English rebels against 463 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: Henry the Seconds Forces. Mercenaries generally, as a rule, did 464 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: not bring their children with them into battle. Uh Too, 465 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: it seems unlikely that no one around Wolpit spoke Flemish 466 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: or some other version of Dutch, at least enough to 467 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: spot it as a known language rather than some unrecognizable tongue. Three, 468 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: the river law isn't really that big, and even to 469 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: a child's eye, it's probably not quote a very considerable river. 470 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: So that descriptor does not really hold up. And for 471 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: this formum to Setford to bury St. Edmunds to Wolpit 472 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: trek really goes way out of the way. It's actually 473 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: a total of about thirty miles or fifty two kilometers, 474 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: the first leg of it going in nearly the direct 475 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: opposite direction from Wolpit. Setford is also way too far 476 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: away from bury St. Edmund's to hear the bells from there. 477 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: Also want a lot more just immediate non synchronization in 478 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: the descriptions that battle happened in October. So unless those 479 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: two kids wandered for months and months and months before 480 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: arriving in Wolpit, like, there would not have been any 481 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: fresh beans harvest. And because you'll remember that was what 482 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: June July, I think July August, when they are generally harvested. 483 00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: That's nine months including winter with two tiny children. Yeah, 484 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: so malnourished, tiny children. It's a mystery. Maybe they made 485 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: the devil's footprints. Maybe so sickle side trip play a 486 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:18,479 Speaker 1: little Frank time traveled seven years maybe or some other 487 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: number of years, depending which account you read. So pretty 488 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: much all of the historical um accounts, and then also 489 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: a lot of the his like farther back in the 490 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: past works of fiction that we talked about the day 491 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: are all on the internet for free, and they will 492 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: all be linked from our show notes to this episode. 493 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: If you just really want to go read either a 494 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: colossally long history of the Church in England as translated 495 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: UH in the nineteenth century, or if you just want 496 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: to read some weird science fictionesque stories about the moon 497 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: written in the distant past, Like that's all there. Who 498 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: doesn't want to read those? I kind of do the 499 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: whole thing about the flying acorn and the dog faced 500 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: people and the the specifically multiple number of elephants, that 501 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: the fleas were as big as it's all, but people 502 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: are pretty much on their own if they want to 503 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: go looking for the dirty ballads? Is that where we 504 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: decided the dirty Ballads are not linked into one of 505 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: them is definitely not safe for work. Um. But so 506 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: as I was trying to put together some thoughts about 507 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: green sickness, I found a larger than I would expect 508 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: number of just very credulous papers published in journals that 509 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: were like, do you think green sickness could have been 510 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: caused by malnutrition? No? I think green sickness probably was 511 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: caused by misogyny. But but one of them like this, 512 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: it started out seeming like they were genuinely asking whether 513 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: there was some kind of organic mechanism at work, and 514 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: then the conclusion was like no, really, like people just 515 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: got really into hip acrates and started making these hippocratic diagnoses, 516 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: and that's why it suddenly enters this historical record at 517 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: this time and leaves and this time. But it was 518 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: through that one article that I found this particularly risk 519 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: a ballad which you know, if you're an adult person 520 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: with kind of a skewed sense of humor, it is 521 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: always funny to me and a little in a little 522 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: bit of a silly and almost borderline charming way to 523 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: read sort of dirty writing. And again I'm using the 524 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: air quotes from really olden times because their choice of 525 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: words is just very funny to today's years. That's what 526 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: makes it hilarious. They so much for joining us on 527 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: this Saturday. Since this episode is out of the archive, 528 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: if you heard an email address or a Facebook U 529 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: r L or something similar over the course of the show, 530 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: that could be obsolete now. Our current email address is 531 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: History podcast at my heart radio dot com. Our old 532 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: house stuff works, email at us no longer works, and 533 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: you can find us all over social media at missed 534 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: in History. And you can subscribe to our show on 535 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, the I heart Radio app, and 536 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: wherever else you listen to podcasts. 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