1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: Up next out Wow, what Jo called part of the gang? 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Which switch? What can we do for those who have 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: done everything for us? I'm talking about veterans, jobs, mental health, homelessness. Too. 4 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: Many of those who have served this country are suffering 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: and need our help. So what can we do? The answer? 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: So much and there's no time to waste. This is 7 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: out Allowed with Gianno called me. Welcome back to Allow 8 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: with Gianno called well and Honora Memorial Day. I've got 9 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: a very special show for you guys this week that 10 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to. My guests today is a 11 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: relative of mine, someone who I talked to in my 12 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: time and need is specially My guest is Dr Olamenttoyan Hines, 13 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: the owner of Peace Amount Counseling, Coaching and Consulting. A 14 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: licensed professional counselor alone. Towyan has more than twenty years 15 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 1: of military service and recently retired from the Illinois National 16 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: Guard as a brigade chaplain. On top of that, she 17 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 1: also happens to be my cousin. As I mentioned earlier, 18 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: Olaetwyan has so many interesting ideas and powerful insights into 19 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: how we can better help those who have done so 20 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: much for us. Veterans and their families. We're going to 21 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: discuss what can be done in terms of jobs, mental health, homelessness, 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: and so much more. This episode means a lot to 23 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: me and I hope you will tune in. And now 24 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: I want to welcome Reverend Dr Ola Antoyan Hines. Thank 25 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: you so much for joining me on out lot with 26 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: Gianno Calldwell. Thank you for having me appreciate it absolutely so. 27 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: You are my cousin, but you're more like my sister 28 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: than my cousins, So so we got a really strong 29 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: relationship and I'm very thankful. Before we discuss how to 30 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: help veterans and some other issues, why don't you tell 31 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: our listeners a bit about yourself. What's your background and 32 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: how did you come into military service. Well, I just 33 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: retired in September from the military after twenty six years. 34 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: I enlisted as a private and worked my way through 35 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: Enlisted Officers Candidate School became a military chaplain. So when 36 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: I retired, I retired at the rank of major as 37 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: a brigade chaplain. In addition, I am an educator and 38 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 1: faith community as well as a minister, and I'm also 39 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: a licensed clinical professional counselor serving veterans and their families. Amen, 40 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,679 Speaker 1: not as beautiful. And I know the governor of Illinois, 41 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: the former governor, he created a position for you to 42 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: lead the Illinois National Guard. Is that right? Well, it wasn't. 43 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: That wasn't the position to lead. It was. There were 44 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: a couple of positions that were offered at the duty 45 00:02:54,520 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: operational support. One was the Wounded Warrior Project or Wounded 46 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: Warrior Ministry Project, not to be confused with the Wounded 47 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: Warrior Project, the formal organization. It was the Wounded Warrior 48 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,839 Speaker 1: Ministry Project, and that program was intended to visit ill, 49 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: injured and wounded service members across the United States from 50 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: the Illinois Army National Guards. So we had service members 51 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: who deployed could not come back home for a multitude 52 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 1: of reasons, and it was my responsibility to provide a 53 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: pastoral spiritual care to those service members, checking with their families. 54 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: Um I also served as family Life chaplain for the 55 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: Illinois Army National Guard and providing training, two chaplains, and 56 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: some important counseling spiritual counseling to service members and their families. Wow, now, 57 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: if you would indulge us a little bit on how 58 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: old were you when you joined the service, and what 59 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: gave that desire to join, because it's it's a big commitment, 60 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: and it's a life commitment for so many people who joined. 61 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: I joined the military when I was nineteen years old. 62 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: I was already in college my freshman year, and I 63 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: came home um for summer break. And I will tell 64 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: this very quick story. I was up for three o'clock 65 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: in the morning. I couldn't sleep, and there was an 66 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: at that came on for the Joint the National Guard. 67 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: So at three o'clock in the morning, I called the recruiter. Um, 68 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: I believe he did answer. And to this day, this 69 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: recruited I I was still acquainted. In fact, he attended 70 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 1: my retirement ceremony vertically. And I made the choice to 71 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: join the military. And I was longing for something more 72 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: disciplined in my life. My family background, as you know, 73 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: lends itself to a lot of pathology and just kind 74 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: of disproportionate. Um, how do I say this? Social opportunities, 75 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: professional opportunities, and I wanted to create space for myself 76 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: while I had more opportunities, and joining the military provided 77 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: payment for college to receive some funds, and um, what 78 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: came out of that for me also was a great 79 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: deal of leadership, learn a lot more about myself. It 80 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: cultivated me into the person that I am today. A 81 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: lot of my personality, my person who stems from the 82 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: lessons I've learned in the military throughout. So that story 83 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: and three o'clock in the morning and calling the recruiter 84 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: summer of my freshman year, going into my sophomore year, 85 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: and the following year actually in that June I enlisted, 86 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,679 Speaker 1: and the following January I was off to basic training. 87 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: Now you have more than twenty years in military service 88 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: under your belt. What was military service like? Was it 89 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: something that you were very concerned because I know a 90 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: lot of times, especially in families like ours, people are 91 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: concerned about sending their loved ones out and the possibility 92 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: that something could happen to them while they're serving. How 93 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: was that service experience like for you? It depends on 94 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: the period of of life or season of my military 95 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: career that I was in. While enlisted, it was a 96 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: very different experience. I was in college, so I was 97 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: commuting from your vine, Urbana to Chicago for military training 98 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: once a month. In addition to being a college student. 99 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: Now at the time I was administration for my unit, 100 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: and so the responsibilities weren't so intense um as they 101 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: had become later. However, it was the time away from 102 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: a college students routine. So there was this duality of worlds, 103 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 1: one as a soldier and then the other as a student. 104 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: Then I decided I'll become an officer, and so here 105 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: I am still in school um in undergrad and going 106 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: away for officers training and prepering to become an officer, 107 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: and the intensity of or demand on service was different. 108 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: There were lots of expectations around leadership, some of which 109 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: I had not been exposed to. I began to learn 110 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: more about war in combat from a from not from 111 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: an administrative lens. Now we're talking about strategy and operation 112 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: and how as an officer the expectation to function in 113 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: those conditions and states. And then there was the part 114 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: when I did become an officer and the mentality of 115 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: switching from being enlisted to being an officer, the expectation 116 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: of demands, and I was a chaplain. What was unique 117 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: to my chaplain cy is that I was the first 118 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: female chaplain candidate in the d National Guard Army National 119 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: Guard and the first female chap chaplain, first female chaplain candidate, 120 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: and there was this nuance that one people had not 121 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: been exposed to women chaplains, and there was the cultural 122 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: component impacted by that. So they're they're all these Uh, 123 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: so my dualities became more quadrupled here. I am still 124 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: a student, I'm now a soldier and officer, and I 125 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: am a chaplain and I'm also a woman, and I'm 126 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: also African American. And so throughout my career I dealt 127 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: with barriers and I will and I had to create 128 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 1: I had to work hard to create spaces for myself 129 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: to prove um not myself to people, but my my presence, 130 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: my presence in those spaces, and so I worked really 131 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: hard to accomplish and and my passion and taking care 132 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: of service members and families has always that's that's my value, 133 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: that's my intrinsic value. So that remained, and yet I 134 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: was dealing with these external forces that sometimes made that 135 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: value complex. Now that's interesting, and uh, for everybody that's listening, 136 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: they can tell you're clearly a super smart person. I 137 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 1: love your word usage of you know, you talk about barriers, 138 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: and so often people deal with barriers in life and 139 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: in multiple ways. But when you're thinking about military services, 140 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: certainly an entirely different ball game than what I may 141 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: experiences someone who's never been a part of that life. 142 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: Would you mind sharing a little bit about what those 143 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: barriers might have been or how did you you handle them, 144 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: because it's, as you mentioned, it's very complex situation. I 145 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: there were, but there are so many narratives to tell, 146 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: and I and I will I will point to the 147 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: ones that have been turning points for my way of 148 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: being and thinking. I recall as a Chaplin candidate and 149 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: having an n CEO, and I will say this our 150 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: a caveat, or preface it with this that not every 151 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: person in the military. I've had these ex science had 152 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: some really wonderful experiences, but some of these are really 153 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: tough and and to process um. And so this n 154 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,079 Speaker 1: c O, I was, I was too received a rewarding. 155 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 1: This c O was responsible for typing up the paperwork 156 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: I'm in the room. He outlast as some people don't deserve, 157 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: you know, different things. Well, that was a time when 158 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: I was going to get out of the military, and 159 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: so I was okay with putting that aside, only to 160 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: find out that that n c O had not process 161 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: is my pay ford for me to get out, and 162 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 1: that UM I was still in the military, even got 163 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: promoted while I was on inactive reserve, which is what 164 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: he placed me in and which was a blessing in 165 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: disguise because I was still in the military. I got 166 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: to stay. Those years weren't good years but didn't count. 167 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: But it was that kind of she It was. I 168 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: was in the Air Defense artillery unit, by the way, 169 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: uh And not that those those service members are bad, 170 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: but I have to say this, we're in one and 171 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: I was there doing a time when the presence of 172 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: females was novice. It was like if if ever at all, 173 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: let alone a chaplain or chaplain candidate. And so I 174 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: was a part of a time when being things that 175 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: are unfolding now people were just whispering about maybe or 176 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: um had their their objections too. I've had plenty of 177 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: opportunities where individuals would try and sabotage certain aspects of 178 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 1: my career. I remember being on deployment and um I 179 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: deployed Da Kosovo and I was the only female chaplain. 180 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: So this was the first time the serving albaiting and 181 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: religious community would have been exposed to a female chaplain, 182 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: and before I even came in country, the task force 183 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: chaplain had to inquire of the religious leaders where they 184 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: comfortable having a conversation with the female job. We're talking 185 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: about the moms, um, And so it's like like in 186 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: other spaces, you would not need permission as a professional. 187 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: My colleagues didn't need permission, and then permission needed to 188 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: be asked of me, And so those were some of 189 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: the barriers. But they also taught me that my voice 190 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:58,319 Speaker 1: and my presence matters in spaces, and I have to 191 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 1: do well, not to perform well to leave an impression 192 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: of see I told you, but to do well so 193 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: that other people who follow they have credibility after me. 194 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: I think this lines up for me, especially Memorial Day, UM, 195 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: And I apologize if I'm going segue Memorial Day coming up, 196 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:25,719 Speaker 1: thinking about those African American service members who lost their 197 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: life and service. When I am dialogue with other veterans 198 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: or service members and to hear their narrative of the 199 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: things that they had to overcome during their times of service, 200 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: being called out their name and I don't mean buddy 201 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: fran Pal, being treated unfairly by their peers or in community, 202 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: when they when when they were out on off post 203 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: or even on post, and so when I hear their 204 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 1: near paratives and the hardships they had to experience and 205 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: the hardships I experienced. But over time things improve, um, 206 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: nonetheless the way it's paved. And so this is my 207 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: experience in the military is a part of a legacy 208 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: of those who have gone before me, long long before me, 209 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: prior to Vietnam and World War One and World to 210 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: all of those even during Civil War. Um, the legacy 211 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: goes back that far. And so I in my own 212 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: career was diligent about being the person that my ancestors conspect. 213 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: That's really interesting. I want to continue from there in 214 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: a moment right after a quick break. You know what's 215 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: so interesting about what you just said is it's it's 216 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: entirely bigger than you, completely and totally, and that's whether 217 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: it be and you, operating in your your capacity, obviously 218 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: your professional capacity, and what you're doing in the right 219 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: here and now, you are literally creating a trail for others. 220 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: And I think that's clearly what services about your fellow 221 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: man or woman ensuring that certainly there's space for them, 222 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: and we honor, honor, you for that, and certainly for 223 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: everyone that died uh in honor of their country. I 224 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: think this is like the greatest sacrifice you can ever give. 225 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: So I really really appreciate that, and I'm thankful for 226 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: your story. Now I know faith as played such an 227 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: important and exceptional part of your life. How does faith 228 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: play in your role in counseling and in by rolling counseling? 229 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: I on function around the practice called psycho theological integration 230 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: and what that means incorporating psychology, theology or one's belief 231 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: system and bringing those clinical and spiritual worlds together. It's 232 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: really done by holding space. Buber has this ival concept 233 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: of the respect of the other. There's this mutual positive regard, 234 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: and so in that space is very different from being 235 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: a pastoral counselor. It's very different from being a Minister's 236 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: very different from being a clinical therapist because you are 237 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: enveloping all these worlds not based off of where you are, 238 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: but you're based it off of where is this person 239 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: that has allowed me to journey with him. So for 240 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: my for practice, that is how it I navigated it 241 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: can be. I've worked with everyone from Muslims to Wickens 242 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: to Spiritualists to Buddhists, Christians. So the spectrum of holding 243 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: space has nothing to do with one's denomination and has 244 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: to do with this author to human experience that we have. 245 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: I hold space for myself knowing that the work I'm 246 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: doing is for the greater good, and I am able 247 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: to then be present with the other, to connect with 248 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 1: them based off of what their needs are so that 249 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: they can do their work to become well. Wow, Okay, 250 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: let me ask you this question because as a faith 251 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: person and what I see is totally different than military, clearly. 252 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: And I've never served, uh And I want to say unfortunately, 253 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: because I think it's just such a great h a 254 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 1: great honor to serve. But have you noticed, as I've 255 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: seen across the country where there seems to be somewhat 256 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: of a marginalization around faith, people of faith, and this 257 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: usurping of of that that freedom of religious faith to 258 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: be able to state what you are, who you are, 259 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,959 Speaker 1: and to embrace it. You know, in a lot of cases, 260 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 1: as people are looking to take God out of the constitution, 261 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: take them off the dollar bill, We've seen that occur 262 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 1: over the years. And I would argue that it seems 263 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: as though it's much more prevalent than it was previously. 264 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: Have you seen any of that in the military. Have 265 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: you felt as though, you know, you've seen people's roles, 266 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: whether it be you or someone else, marginalized because of 267 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: their commitment to faith or their exposing of it. UM 268 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: and the military is quite different. Chaplains are in the 269 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: military because we support the free exercise of religion. That 270 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: is our that is our one of our responsibilities to 271 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: ensure the free exercise of religion. And so the exposure 272 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: I've had with individuals of different denominations, my responsibility has 273 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: been to ensure that they have the space to practice. 274 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: I either perform or provide performinging. I perform according to 275 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: my tenants of faith UM as a Christian and provide me. 276 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: If I have a service member who's Buddhist or Wiccan 277 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: or Ish Khan, um whatever, then I am to ensure 278 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: that they have space and time to practice. The caveat 279 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: to that is as long as it doesn't interfere with mission. 280 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: And I've had to navigate that part for them. So 281 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: I've been more of an advocate to ensure, well, you know, Friday, 282 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: their prayers need to happen, and so what missions are 283 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: going on that allows space for individuals of practice or 284 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: sabbath or mass any of those any of those experiences. 285 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: So my responsibility, even food restrictions to ensure that those 286 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: things are accommodated for the service members. As it relates 287 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: to society at large transitioning out of the military, even 288 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: though I've serve dually, a lot of my mindset shifts 289 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: towards military structure. I find that individuals like to be 290 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,439 Speaker 1: able to make their own choices about how they like 291 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: things to be, and it's not always about collective community consciousness. 292 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: So when it comes to this divisive stance around the 293 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: announcement respect of perspective of religions and removal of certain 294 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: things to create this unified structure, I go back historically 295 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,959 Speaker 1: to the reason why things were established the way they 296 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: were from the beginning, and the individuals who are protesting 297 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,959 Speaker 1: these things now did not have access or a voice 298 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: in those decisions. Now individuals have a voice, and they're 299 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: using that voice to articulate their preferences based off of 300 00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 1: their individual selves, not the active often and so that 301 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: is in my mind how I'm able to navigate, Well, 302 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: you want this removed because you weren't a part of 303 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: decision making process. Of course you were not, And now 304 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: you have a voice that social justice. I can advocate 305 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 1: and speak for myself. That is what society says, in 306 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: a democratic society says, we have permission to do permission. 307 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: I use that very interestingly, of course, um, and so 308 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: people do it. So when it comes to this perspective 309 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: around how religions are fluid or not fluid, or diversified 310 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: or not diversisfied, what's accessible, what's not? Um, what is 311 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: labeled or not, it's about well, I wasn't a part 312 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: of the decision making process, so now I want to 313 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: be a part of it now. And it doesn't mean 314 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 1: systemically things will change. It just means that people now 315 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: have a voice and that and I appreciate that point 316 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: of view, uh, that they want to have a voice. 317 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: But it seems as though some of the voices of 318 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,199 Speaker 1: because you just mentioned it is not the collective so 319 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,880 Speaker 1: as someone who's uniquely disseminating whatever message that they feel 320 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: as most conducive to how they believe. But it feels 321 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: as though in some contexts that individuals are looking to 322 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: usurp a person's right to express their faith and we 323 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: this is clearly not all military. I'm never certain the military, 324 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,719 Speaker 1: but in corporations, if you say like, oh, I'm a Christian, 325 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: I pray or and I know they're supposed to be No, uh, 326 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: you're you're you're not supposed to discriminate against individuals. But 327 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: we've seen where individuals have announced their faith and they've 328 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: been fired from jobs, or whereas we see that there 329 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: is a condemnation of certain belief systems, and so it's 330 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: it's it's just a very really interesting thing place right now. 331 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: And I was really interested in knowing if you had 332 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: any personal experiences with that in the military, which you 333 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: kind of went into. So thank you for mentioning that. 334 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: And I'm hoping and praying that it will never be 335 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,439 Speaker 1: a time where a person serving in the military can't 336 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: proudly announce their faith. And you know, I'm a Christian 337 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: just like you are. And I think it's so important 338 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: that faith plays a pardon everything that we do, whether 339 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: it be professional or personally. It makes all the difference 340 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: in the world in my viewpoint, in per my experience, 341 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: well to to say how prevalent or how significant is 342 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: on our id tags or some people will call them 343 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 1: dog tags are religious preferences listed on our with our 344 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: SOLF security number, our name, and blood type. So is 345 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: your religious not your denominational preference? And I would sadly 346 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 1: say the reason that is listed on there is that 347 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: in case of a loss, that the corporate rights can 348 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: be given to you in your passing. So there's a 349 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: huge consideration of what faith means to military personnel, even 350 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: at death. So that's how that's the extent that diversity 351 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: and the understanding. But again the practice as long as 352 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,479 Speaker 1: it does then interfere with mission, that's the practice. We 353 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: can talk about other aspects of religion, uh of where 354 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: people served in the military and how that impacts them. 355 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,919 Speaker 1: I've had those experiences with individuals and the bias and 356 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 1: discrimination that comes with that, and what that means for 357 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: other cultures or even those of other cultures who serve 358 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: in the military, and and those practices of discrimination based 359 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: off of the way one looks or the way one speaks, 360 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: or being called a trigger because of a deployment experience. 361 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,919 Speaker 1: So those things are real as well. So the it's 362 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 1: really um and I think I'm being very over generalizing 363 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: um this message, but I'm trying to be very clear 364 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: that it's not all, it's some, but it is there. 365 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: And the unfortunate part about the it's not all or 366 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: some is the the some sometimes control the conversation because 367 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 1: they're the vocal minority. And those are the people who 368 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: who are written about, who are reported on. And I'm 369 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: talking about reporting from a journalistic standpoint, and we we 370 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: were begin to think that maybe there is a change 371 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: is occurring in the in the military service. But I 372 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: pray and hope that we'll see a continuation of a positive, 373 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: faith based experience, being able to be who you are 374 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: and not have to change for the sake of what 375 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 1: a few may think or say. So I appreciate that. 376 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: Thank you for explaining that to us. Now, we know 377 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: veterans across the country are dealing with a lot of 378 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: issues from jobs, mental health, homelessness, and we're talking about 379 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: folks who have already left the service. And we see 380 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: signs where we are on the free you know, leaving 381 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: the freeway exiting off where somebody may say I'm a veteran, 382 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 1: or people are on the street where they're veteran veteran 383 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 1: hats and they're asking for change, or they're homeless or 384 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: whatever the case may be. And there's a lot of 385 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: people who feel very patriotic around helping UM individuals like 386 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: that and helping veterans broadly speaking, are those general principles 387 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: should we apply in terms of help helping them? What 388 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: should we be thinking about when we're talking about Memorial Day? 389 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: How can we serve those who have given everything for 390 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: our freedom? How can we better serve them? Um? So 391 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna get to answer the Latin like the 392 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: latter part, and maybe that will be inclusive of the 393 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: other parts um that you spoke on. I believe that 394 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: in terms in terms of how can we serve veterans 395 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: who have given everything for us? How can we honor them? 396 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: Because we've seen a lot of folks who are dealing 397 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: with homelessness, mental issues. Uh you see them on the 398 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: corner with science and that they're veteran and they need help. 399 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: How can we honor their sacrifice as they fall for 400 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: our freedom? Or rather your sacrifice, you all sacrifice, I 401 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: should say so. So I have I have mixed positions 402 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: about that from a personal lens and from a professional one. Okay, Um, 403 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: from a professional lens, it's um individuals who who served 404 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: and so served well or not so well, they still served, 405 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: and they are there due the respect of service and 406 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 1: the benefits they're entitled to because of that service, whether 407 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: it be through the v A, communal support, veteran service organizations, 408 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: et cetera. Then there are some who, by life chance, 409 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: make choices that impact the life of other people. And 410 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: so my bias and that is to what extent are 411 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: those individuals They're eligible for the benefits they're eligible produced service, 412 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: but how to what extent are they eligible for the 413 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: support of community? And this is probably leaning in a 414 00:28:54,240 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: lot of different directions. Service member us, like everybody else, 415 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: while we serve, we're also human beings. We are also 416 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: citizens of this country. And while we have the respect 417 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: of service, we still have to follow the protocols, the laws, 418 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: the system, et cetera. We don't. We don't get away 419 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: with things just because of service. So when it comes 420 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: to the impact of mental health, when it comes to 421 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: the impact of homelessness, when it comes to the impact 422 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: of job loss, incarceration, all those um things that impact 423 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: service members just like everybody else, it's what is the 424 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: individual's narrative that brings them into the space. And I 425 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: think first the first thing to help is to understand 426 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: the story, to find out if help is necessary, because 427 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: there are times when help is not necessary but desired, 428 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: and then there are times when help is necessary, and 429 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: then there are times when help is deserved. And then 430 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: there's times when you're entitled to And I'm not talking 431 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: about entitlement in terms of privilege, I mean like entitlement 432 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: to be VA benefits, entitlements too, you know, um VA, 433 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: homelown benefits, et cetera. And so I always encourage people 434 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: find out what the person's narrative is, understand their story, 435 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: not from a place of judgment, but from a place 436 00:30:53,280 --> 00:31:00,040 Speaker 1: of unconditional positive regard. To be the listener, not to 437 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: do anything or to fix anything, but to simply engage. 438 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: Just to engage, and then you'll understand what needs are unmet. 439 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: But you'll only know those specifically when you ask. So 440 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: for women veterans, the assumptions around women veterans in their service, well, 441 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: some of our health care needs are different from our 442 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: male counterparts. So to assume that women veterans need the 443 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: exact same healthcare right or the exact same services, and 444 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: wanting a community wanted to do something without asking what 445 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: is the need, what is the support um Sometimes the 446 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: need for homeless women veterans are different from male veterans. 447 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: Sometimes the mental health issues where women veterans are different 448 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: than male veterans, And so it's about asking the question 449 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: to find out what resources are necessary and deserved and 450 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: if support can be rendered. I want to pick up 451 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: from there in a moment, but first let's go to break, 452 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: you know. And that's that's such a I don't think 453 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people take time to kind of think 454 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: about that, to engage on that level, because it's almost 455 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: like you're just passing by someone on the street and 456 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: you thank them for their service and you try to 457 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: help them out with whatever you have in your pocket. 458 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: So it's it's on a very micro level in terms 459 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: of that level of engagement. People a lot of times 460 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: don't even take the time to say, hey, you know, 461 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: how did how did you get how did you get here? 462 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: No one, no one. Not many people take that time 463 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 1: to do that. Not understand your point in terms of hey, 464 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: sometimes in those situations, you can have a veteran that's 465 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: dealing with mental health issues and they don't want to help. 466 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: They're just they're on the street, just like you see 467 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: a lot of folks generally in the state of California 468 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: anywhere else with homelessness. In the state of california's about 469 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty thousand people, and some folks just 470 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: choose to be in those set of circumstances. There's other 471 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: than others that need help. But according to Military Times, 472 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: there's about thirty seven thousand homeless veterans um and that's 473 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: as that number is as recent as this year, that 474 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,239 Speaker 1: who need help. But then you see individuals who come 475 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: into the country and in some cases illegally, and there's 476 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: billions of dollars being spent um for them to take 477 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: care of them. But it doesn't seem to be that 478 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: same level of urgency for those those who actually serve 479 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: the country. Is that something that you've noticed. I think 480 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: that um organism of MEMBIS say agencies, let me say 481 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,399 Speaker 1: agencies tend to rely on the systems that they put 482 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: in place to support those of us who serve. Like 483 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: the v A administration, they like you can go to 484 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 1: the Viet Well, not everybody is eligible for VA benefits, 485 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: and so sometimes I think that the aside is, well, 486 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: we have services for veterans already, we have programs for 487 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 1: veterans already, and so the space created and systems created 488 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 1: to support veterans, then UM, they have to do their 489 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: diligence to ensure that these veteran pandemics, if you will, 490 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: or veteran concerns or issues that are prevalent are reduced, 491 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: thus leaving time for other people to to be concerned 492 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,439 Speaker 1: about UM, immigration, all the other aspects that that you 493 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: you speak of. And so I think that's what happens, UM, 494 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: that it's kind of a pass off to the v 495 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 1: A or other systems in place. UM, homelessness among that 496 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: veteran population, UM, as you stated, has grown. And I 497 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: would say also, then if you consider during Vietnam, the 498 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: Vietnam era, how service members were treated when they came home, 499 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: in addition to the segregation that still existed in the country, 500 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: and to say, well there they want to stay on 501 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 1: the street, Well, you didn't receive me, then, so why 502 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: why should I go and get your help now? And 503 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: I know, I know I've worked with quite a few 504 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: Vietnam veterans who have that statement. When I came home, 505 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 1: I had to throw my uniform in the garbage because 506 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: of how people treated me or African American veterans, the 507 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: discrimination that they dealt with in returning home, and so 508 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: why would I if I am home with why would 509 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: I want to go to a system that has already 510 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:29,760 Speaker 1: abandoned me? And pity there and and and the point 511 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 1: of and I understand that period of time were certainly 512 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: in a much different period of time. However, however, even 513 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: the referencing of the v A, we know how the 514 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: v A was really failing veterans for many years. People 515 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: people said, hey, we need to we're not getting the 516 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: adequate care or that we should be getting at the 517 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 1: v A v A hospital system or the v A 518 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: system generally speaking. And that was one of the things 519 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,760 Speaker 1: that needed to be fixed. And I think that fixing 520 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 1: of it came around tween I believe it was. And 521 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's still much more work to be done, 522 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 1: no no doubt about that. But do you feel, uh, 523 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,319 Speaker 1: in your opinion the current VA system is effective at 524 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: providing the care that our veterans need. It depends on 525 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,839 Speaker 1: which VIA you go to. And I'm not gonna lie 526 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 1: about that. I'm talking as a veteran now. I have 527 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 1: heard so many stories, um from fellow veterans whether they're 528 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 1: clients or colleagues, about the va system and how they 529 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: function to operate when I've had my own share of experiences, 530 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 1: believe it or not, UM, So I think that it 531 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: depends on the administration at that particular v A and 532 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 1: how they operate. That does make a huge difference, UM 533 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: in the type of service. Now, how service improved over time? 534 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: I would say from my own experiences and use of 535 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: the v A, it has changed quite dramatically. I'm quite 536 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:14,719 Speaker 1: a bit UM to the degree where if providers are available, 537 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: UM they have community care where you can see a provider, 538 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 1: a civilian provider, but UM be a connected provider in 539 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: the community to receive services. Did they have that prior 540 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 1: to to I think this they started with the Choice 541 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 1: program a few years ago. This was after I came 542 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: back from deployment, so this is before they didn't have this. 543 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: So you're talking about level of care, quality of care, 544 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: waiting time. Do I have appointments that I can't get 545 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 1: into until August and it's May Yes, I do absolutely 546 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: that happens. UM. Is it the failure of the system 547 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 1: or that them lacking care? I don't think it's a 548 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,919 Speaker 1: lack of care. I think it's just how administrations are 549 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:09,839 Speaker 1: able to maintain uh, theirs, their systems, their staff, UM 550 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 1: and what's happening UM. So there are two different parts. 551 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: There's the administrative part and then there's the care of 552 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 1: the veteran when they're entering in that space. Am I 553 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: respected in care for when I go to the v A, 554 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: when I go to my appointments in women's health and 555 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: ignore all the other things, I'm okay when I received good, 556 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,359 Speaker 1: great care from my providers. Have there been times whe 557 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 1: I didn't receive quality service? Absolutely, And that's where they 558 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: have patient advocates and you can enquire and inform and 559 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 1: let them know about a service or something that does 560 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 1: not meet UM, your expectation as as a veteran. So there, 561 00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:05,280 Speaker 1: while the system really had some issues, I do see 562 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 1: some progress being made in terms of the care I receive. 563 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 1: I do have other colleagues who are not getting the 564 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:17,879 Speaker 1: same care, and I'm I'm an advocate, and so I say, 565 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: you can ask for the services that you need. You 566 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 1: can inquire, you can educate this provider on military culture 567 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: because sometimes they don't know UM. You can correct them 568 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: if some statement is made that impacts your care. So 569 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 1: there are these layers around the systems that do exist. 570 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:45,160 Speaker 1: The other part to what you're saying are the veterans 571 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: that are in the spaces with other veterans right and 572 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 1: sometimes the that behavior or what occurs is not managed 573 00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:00,320 Speaker 1: and creates other issues or other problems. But um again, 574 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: you have advocates in the space that you can report 575 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 1: to to ensure you're kept safe or if you have 576 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:12,480 Speaker 1: concerns around those, as much as you do with the staff. Now, 577 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: if you could reform the system, the v a system, 578 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 1: that is what reforms which you you make. I would 579 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: make reforms to better care for women veterans, better holistic 580 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:33,360 Speaker 1: care for women veterans. Military sexual trauma seems to be 581 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,720 Speaker 1: the buzzword that lingers around we're talking about women veterans. 582 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 1: That's not the only type of care that is necessary 583 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 1: for women that as some of us have really high 584 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 1: functioning careers, um and and professions which require us to 585 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 1: maintain a certain level of what we call in a 586 00:41:54,480 --> 00:42:00,239 Speaker 1: military operation tempo very heightened and so to understand and 587 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 1: what have military service impacts not just the sexual trauma survivor, 588 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:12,399 Speaker 1: but the combat veteran, the person who witnessed trauma, heard 589 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,880 Speaker 1: about trauma, UM all those other things, especially women veterans, 590 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: is significantly important. I would add those pieces to the administration, 591 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,439 Speaker 1: not just for women veterans, but for maale veterans as well, 592 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 1: because sometimes that's missed. UM. I will offer an aspect. 593 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,960 Speaker 1: I would include an aspect of holistic care, which includes 594 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 1: not just trauma treatment but basic life reentry, if you will. 595 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: I as a veteran, I serve I also have PTSD 596 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 1: and from complex traumas connected to the military, and it 597 00:42:53,760 --> 00:43:00,040 Speaker 1: isn't It has become very important to me that individuals 598 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: are aware that while one might be diagnosed, the diagnosis 599 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: is not a frame of reference for who they are 600 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: and they're being uh. In fact, people are still able 601 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:16,239 Speaker 1: to function in a very specific way in their careers. 602 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,440 Speaker 1: And so I would offer to the v A programs 603 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,120 Speaker 1: or services or can have them consider how do we 604 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:29,840 Speaker 1: support those individuals as well, because that's often the stereotype 605 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 1: goes that if you're a veteran with PTSD, then you 606 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,719 Speaker 1: are like this. And I think I'm very clear that 607 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,760 Speaker 1: I'm a veteran with PTSD, and I have a service dog, 608 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:47,359 Speaker 1: and I function like this and so right and and 609 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 1: I can articulate well, and I can advocate for myself, 610 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 1: and I can do all of those high functioning things. 611 00:43:54,000 --> 00:44:00,680 Speaker 1: I still have PTSD, and don't let the diagnosis treat 612 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 1: allow you to treat me less. And throughout our country, 613 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,960 Speaker 1: our country's history, those who have been diagnosed with PTSD, 614 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,759 Speaker 1: they are in some respects treated like their throwaway's, like 615 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,839 Speaker 1: you're unable to fully function and be a part of 616 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 1: our society. It's almost like, oh man, it's sadly person 617 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,960 Speaker 1: at p PTSD. When you know, you look at places 618 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:28,040 Speaker 1: like Chicago where there's and obviously military services the print, 619 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:29,760 Speaker 1: but there's a lot of people who are walking around 620 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 1: with PTSD and don't even know it. Mm hmmm. Yeah. 621 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:40,080 Speaker 1: It's community trauma, you know, as you know impacted by that, 622 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 1: I mean exposure to violence. PTSD is not just what 623 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,920 Speaker 1: you did about what you witnessed and also heard. So 624 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 1: I don't think people understood the criterion of PTSD um 625 00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,799 Speaker 1: they were also understand and by curious trauma and all 626 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,920 Speaker 1: those other aspects of it. So there are many layers 627 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 1: two to this and to your questions like what would 628 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: I infuse into the v A system. I would infuse that, like, 629 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:10,560 Speaker 1: let's do some community work around people understanding and understanding 630 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,000 Speaker 1: PTSD and this in this wholeness, not just in the 631 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,880 Speaker 1: part where you're a veteran you went off the combat. 632 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,160 Speaker 1: Yes you have PTSD, but other people who experience other 633 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,360 Speaker 1: types of trauma have to work really hard to prove 634 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:27,080 Speaker 1: that those are their traumas. What interesting dichonomy that is 635 00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,600 Speaker 1: being in those spaces? Well, before I let you go, 636 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,680 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, because we're family and you've 637 00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:39,320 Speaker 1: seen me since obviously I was a little kid. Uh, 638 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:43,439 Speaker 1: what if you could give people who are listening, because 639 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,279 Speaker 1: folks are interesting interested in you know, my background, how 640 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,360 Speaker 1: I grew up, and of course I talked about it 641 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,239 Speaker 1: in the book Taking for Granted, But what would you 642 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:56,120 Speaker 1: say about me then and now? What would your your 643 00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:06,920 Speaker 1: overarching concise analysis be. M I I'm gonna pause on 644 00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,359 Speaker 1: this because my heart just fluttered out of out of 645 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,120 Speaker 1: my love for you and my respect for your path 646 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:21,439 Speaker 1: and your journey. And I think people assume a lot 647 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 1: and take for granted, not not to pull away from 648 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:32,719 Speaker 1: your book, but to plug it. Um for granted, um 649 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:40,319 Speaker 1: your story and your why, you're why. I'm privy to 650 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:44,320 Speaker 1: the why and to the story. So I get that, 651 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,200 Speaker 1: I get the whole picture that is you. Um, but 652 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:53,840 Speaker 1: people who meet you and are impressed and you do 653 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:58,759 Speaker 1: have a lasting impression. But to feel the energy of 654 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:03,440 Speaker 1: your story behind how you move and how you function, 655 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,239 Speaker 1: and how you operate and why you move and why 656 00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:11,120 Speaker 1: you operate and why you function the way that you do. 657 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:16,120 Speaker 1: It's not because you are your story. It's because you 658 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:21,960 Speaker 1: have a story to tell. And I assume that sometimes 659 00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,160 Speaker 1: people either will want to put you in the past 660 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,000 Speaker 1: with your narrative or in the presence of where they 661 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,560 Speaker 1: want you to be or see you, and you are 662 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,719 Speaker 1: living in your now and to experience you and your now. 663 00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:40,839 Speaker 1: That is what gives great honor to these authentic connections 664 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,759 Speaker 1: that you have with others where they begin to understand 665 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,440 Speaker 1: a little bit more of you as you permit them to. 666 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:54,600 Speaker 1: That they respect your journey, which includes your story, but 667 00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,160 Speaker 1: they're also open to the next chapters as you have 668 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,560 Speaker 1: them be not the way they need you to be. 669 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:08,359 Speaker 1: And I think that knowing how proud you are and 670 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,960 Speaker 1: not in pride of who you are as a person, 671 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:19,120 Speaker 1: and in always discovering your becoming to honor that not 672 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:23,640 Speaker 1: as an insecurity, that is the value that's driven by 673 00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:28,800 Speaker 1: your longing for more, more growth, more understanding, more wisdom, 674 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,520 Speaker 1: and to share that with others who are open to 675 00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,000 Speaker 1: receiving it with open arms, not close fist like they're 676 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:41,319 Speaker 1: wanting to fight you for it. Um. And so I've 677 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:45,560 Speaker 1: seen how you've been with family, I've seen how you've 678 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:50,080 Speaker 1: been with me in my journey with trauma and PTSD, 679 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:57,960 Speaker 1: and I can say you're a delicate heart, um, and 680 00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,120 Speaker 1: you're a golden smile and the sun that shines through 681 00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,719 Speaker 1: you that like that shines through you. I hope people 682 00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:08,359 Speaker 1: always see that and respect it and not make assumptions 683 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:13,759 Speaker 1: about it, and honor you, your narrative, your story, your 684 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:18,680 Speaker 1: journey for that. But you have grown into this beautiful soul. 685 00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,959 Speaker 1: You've always had a beautiful soul, but you've grown into 686 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:31,319 Speaker 1: this very strong man of substance. And that makes me proud. Wow, 687 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,960 Speaker 1: that was that was pretty profound. Thank you, Thank you 688 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:36,640 Speaker 1: for sharing. And I feel like I just went to 689 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:43,360 Speaker 1: counseling with Dr Ola Antonia. Thank you for everything you 690 00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:46,399 Speaker 1: you mean to me, and you've been with me through 691 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,359 Speaker 1: some of the more interesting phases of life. And I 692 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:55,640 Speaker 1: appreciate your love, your commitment to always pushing me forward 693 00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,040 Speaker 1: and just being someone that I count on is one 694 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,680 Speaker 1: of my closest and years. So I love you so much. 695 00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:04,840 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me as such an honor to 696 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,840 Speaker 1: have you on here, and thank you for all all 697 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:13,480 Speaker 1: of what you do for yourself and your fellow veterans. 698 00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,040 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining out Loud with Gianno called Weell. 699 00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,480 Speaker 1: I want to thank dr Oland Antoyan Haines again for 700 00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,839 Speaker 1: a great interview. If you're enjoying the show, please leave 701 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,320 Speaker 1: us a review and radis for fos stars on Apple Podcasts. 702 00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,920 Speaker 1: If you have any questions for me, please email me 703 00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:36,879 Speaker 1: at The out Loud at Ginger Street sixty dot com 704 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,080 Speaker 1: and I'll try to answer them in our episodes. And 705 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,319 Speaker 1: please sign up for my monthly newsletter at Ginger Street 706 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,839 Speaker 1: sixty dot com Slash out Loud. You can also follow 707 00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,719 Speaker 1: me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and palmer at Giano Caldwell. 708 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,000 Speaker 1: And if you're interested in learning more about my story, 709 00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,040 Speaker 1: you please pick up a copy of my bestselling book 710 00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,759 Speaker 1: title Taken for Granted, How Conservatism Can Win Back to 711 00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,440 Speaker 1: Americans The Liberalism Failed. Special things to our producer John Cassio, 712 00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,080 Speaker 1: researcher Aaron Kleinman and executive do so. There's Debbie Myers 713 00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,399 Speaker 1: and speaker new Gingwich, all part of the Inglish three 714 00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:04,080 Speaker 1: sixty network.