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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and today we're

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Speaker 1: talking about pulling the most powerful money levers with Professor

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Speaker 1: Kristin Carriot. So my guest today says, you can't transform

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Speaker 1: the world if you're living paycheck to paycheck. I tend

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Speaker 1: to agree, and money literacy is at the heart of

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Speaker 1: avoiding that fate. And so not only did Professor Christen

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Speaker 1: Carriot literally write the personal finance textbook, but she also

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Speaker 1: found a way to make personal finance classes a requirement

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Speaker 1: at her school, which is Mount Mary University. And Kristen,

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Speaker 1: she's boots on the ground right She's teaching the next

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Speaker 1: generation how to think about and how to handle money

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Speaker 1: more effectively. And so I'm curious to hear what it's

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Speaker 1: like getting young folks who care about personal finance as

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Speaker 1: much as she does. There's a lot to cover in

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Speaker 1: this conversation. So Professor Kristin Carriote, thank you for joining

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Speaker 1: me today on the show.

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Speaker 2: Happy to be here.

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Speaker 1: And we can get into this in a second. But

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Speaker 1: Professor Carriote has been a listener to How to Money

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Speaker 1: over the years, so that's really cool, and I want

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Speaker 1: to talk a lot about your textbook. For first things, First,

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Speaker 1: what's your craft beer equivalent? What do you splour John

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Speaker 1: while you're also doing the smart stuff with your money

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Speaker 1: in the here and now?

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Speaker 2: Love the question and you can call me Kristen.

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Speaker 3: I would say, my family owns a donut business, and

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Speaker 3: so my husband works weekends. So typically once a weekend,

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Speaker 3: I will get a weekend morning babysitter so that I

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Speaker 3: can go out in the world and be a person, exercise,

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Speaker 3: do whatever I want.

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Speaker 2: And that feels good to me. But it is a splurge.

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Speaker 1: I love that, And I totally want to ask about

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Speaker 1: your husband's donut business and my research I found out

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Speaker 1: about this, and I'm curious if I drive up there,

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Speaker 1: if I can, if we can and share a donut

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Speaker 1: together one of these days maybe.

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Speaker 2: Heck, yeah, Okay, let me know.

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Speaker 1: Is it hard to abstain from the donut eating given

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Speaker 1: the the amount of free donuts? I'm sure that are.

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Speaker 1: They're alluring, They're tempting, They're amazing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, people will see me like eat them,

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Speaker 3: and they'll say like, aren't you sick of them? I'm like,

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Speaker 3: that's why I married my husband for the free donuts.

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Speaker 2: I still like them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, sure, he's a nice guy, but he makes

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Speaker 1: awesome donuts. That's why I'm married. Yeah, all right, I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about let's talk about that for a

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Speaker 1: second then, Because he runs this how long has he

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Speaker 1: run the business? And what has this foray into entrepreneurship?

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Speaker 1: This starting starting a small business which is not for

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Speaker 1: the faint of heart. What has that taught you about

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Speaker 1: personal finance? Maybe by proxy, but obviously you guys are

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Speaker 1: in this together to a certain extent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So he took over the business from his aunt and uncle,

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Speaker 3: and he's really grunted a.

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Speaker 2: Lot since then.

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Speaker 3: I would say what I've learned is having to take

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Speaker 3: a lot of responsibility for our finances. He works a lot,

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Speaker 3: a ton of hours, and so understanding how the business

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Speaker 3: works is really helpful for me, especially if he's coming

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Speaker 3: home late on a Saturday because he is delivering wedding donuts.

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Speaker 3: You know, I kind of have a good idea of

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Speaker 3: the profit margin on a you know, on wedding donuts,

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Speaker 3: So that helps me understand.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you know it's wedding season.

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Speaker 3: This is where he makes his money, and it helps

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Speaker 3: us be a better team together.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Because of your husband's experience in running this small

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Speaker 1: business is entrepreneurship and business ownership? Is that something you

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Speaker 1: cover and stress as someone who talks about personal finance.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's important for people to consider that

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Speaker 1: they should be considering that avenue more more than they

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Speaker 1: more than they do, or is like, I'm just curious

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Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts on just entrepreneurship and small business

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Speaker 1: ownership overall.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, I think that students really need to understand the

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Speaker 3: trade offs. I'm the economists, so I'm always thinking trade offs, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: of the gig economy of side hustles, you know, they

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Speaker 3: sound maybe promising, but there could be a significant trade

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Speaker 3: off with those.

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Speaker 2: So we talk.

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Speaker 3: About self employment as like a full time gig. We

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Speaker 3: talk about side hustles and part time work in the

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Speaker 3: gig economy and how to use those options when they

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Speaker 3: make the most sense in your life. So, you know,

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Speaker 3: sometimes it might make sense to do some gigwork for

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Speaker 3: a small time a short time in your life, and

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Speaker 3: they can have a lot of benefits, but they also

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Speaker 3: have costs.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And I think, especially in the gig economy that

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Speaker 1: we're now fully living in the assumption that oh, I'm

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Speaker 1: picking up the side hustle makes sense for me, it

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Speaker 1: should be questioned a lot more because yeah, maybe it does,

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Speaker 1: and maybe it does for a short period of time,

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Speaker 1: but I think a lot of people they can become

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Speaker 1: reliant on some of those gigs, and the gigs might

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Speaker 1: not be the best paying and they might not be

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Speaker 1: the best from an income standpoint over the long term.

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Speaker 1: So okay, let's talk about personal finance education. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about your textbook, because you literally wrote the textbook about

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Speaker 1: personal finance, which is so fascinating, Like it's just kind

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Speaker 1: of like a joke that people were the person who

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Speaker 1: wrote the textbook on this, but you did so. But

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Speaker 1: you're you're infusing personal finance into your classes for years beforehand,

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Speaker 1: So what did that look like? What sort of tactics

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Speaker 1: were using.

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Speaker 3: So I've been teaching economics and business courses for fifteen years.

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Speaker 3: What I noticed is that students are really hungry for

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Speaker 3: financial literacy.

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Speaker 2: So I could be teaching.

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Speaker 3: About just about anything and a four to one K

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Speaker 3: comes up and students have questions. So we kind of

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Speaker 3: stopped class and we talk about you know, four O

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Speaker 3: one k's, And I was always, you know, happy to

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Speaker 3: take the tangent to discuss those things because we didn't

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Speaker 3: have a personal finance course at Mount Mary. We since

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Speaker 3: have added a personal finance course in the last four years,

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Speaker 3: so we didn't have one until twenty twenty one, and

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Speaker 3: then starting this fall, we decided to add it to

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Speaker 3: our core curriculum. So all students, regardless of their major,

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Speaker 3: take personal finance as a graduation requirement. It's a three

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Speaker 3: credit course and it gives us.

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Speaker 1: They all got to come through you.

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Speaker 2: They all have to.

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Speaker 3: Come through me or one of our other instructors. But

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Speaker 3: the reality is as if it's not required, they probably.

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Speaker 2: Won't take it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you said students are hungry to learn this,

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Speaker 1: which fascinates me because where is the disconnect most people,

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Speaker 1: at least throughout American The American education system for so

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Speaker 1: many years until very recently has not been a requirement

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Speaker 1: in almost anywhere, college, high school, anything, and so people

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Speaker 1: couldn't get out into the real world. And if they

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Speaker 1: were lucky, their parents taught them something about money. But

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Speaker 1: most people completely unlucky, make a ton of mistakes and

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Speaker 1: then maybe go out and learn on their own, hopefully,

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Speaker 1: but many just decades of poor money stewardship. And it's

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Speaker 1: not because it's a personal fault or a lack of

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Speaker 1: or a moral failing. It really is because they don't

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Speaker 1: know anything about the subject.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I believe that we are late to it, right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, states are just coming around to requiring it.

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Speaker 3: I live in Wisconsin and it's now a requirement in

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Speaker 3: our state to learn in high school. But best practice

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Speaker 3: is to learn it in middle school, high school, college,

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Speaker 3: and beyond. So you know, where is the disconnect? You know,

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Speaker 3: that's a tough one to answer. I think colleges and

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Speaker 3: universities are slow to adapt to the needs of our students.

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Speaker 3: But for me and for our institution, we really see

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Speaker 3: it as a responsibility that we need our students to

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Speaker 3: graduate with these life skills because we say our mission

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Speaker 3: is to educate women to transform the world. Like you

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Speaker 3: said in the intro, you can't transform the world if

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Speaker 3: you're a living paycheck to paycheck.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was just quoting you, So yeah, that's what

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Speaker 1: you said. Well, I mean I think of personal finance

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Speaker 1: almost as it should be, like almost like a language requirement.

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Speaker 1: Because I think you're right, because it really is its own,

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Speaker 1: its own language in a lot of ways. So I

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Speaker 1: started taking Spanish when I was in seventh grade, and

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Speaker 1: I took it all the way through like sophomore year

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Speaker 1: of college, and guess what, I'm still like not the

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Speaker 1: best Spanish speaker, sadly, like I should be better. And

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Speaker 1: maybe if I'd lived in a foreign country for six

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Speaker 1: months or something, I would be fluent, but I never

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Speaker 1: had that immersion experience. But do you think like personal

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Speaker 1: finance should be similar, because it does have there's like

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Speaker 1: a lot to learn. I mean you again, you wrote

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Speaker 1: the book. There are hundreds of pages about this stuff,

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Speaker 1: and we're so uninterested. We've not been confronted with the

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Speaker 1: material that maybe it should be like a slow drip

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Speaker 1: over a long period of time.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I had to learn to write the book

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Speaker 3: in a way that simplified it a little more than

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Speaker 3: a even thought. You know, some students coming into the

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Speaker 3: class maybe took it in high school, maybe didn't, or

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Speaker 3: they took it in high school but it was a

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Speaker 3: long time ago, or they took it and.

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Speaker 2: They didn't have maybe a great instructor.

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Speaker 3: Or they just didn't get a lot from it because

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Speaker 3: it was like a short course or something. So I

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Speaker 3: really had to kind of really go down to the fundamentals,

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Speaker 3: even talking about like you know, a difference between a

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Speaker 3: checking account and a savings account, and where do you

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Speaker 3: put your basic emergency fund, things that maybe we take

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Speaker 3: for granted if we think that all students know, they don't.

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Speaker 3: And so really starting from from zero and recognizing that

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Speaker 3: students have to unlearn a lot of things too. That

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Speaker 3: they're coming into the class maybe having learned something from

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Speaker 3: their parents or from TikTok that just you know, isn't

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Speaker 3: isn't correct, and they have to unlearn those things. You know,

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Speaker 3: I have students coming in who think credit cards are

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Speaker 3: bad and their parents won't let them get one.

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Speaker 2: Credit cards can.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely be bad, but we know that no credit equals

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Speaker 3: bad credit, and so you know, explaining that to students

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Speaker 3: and learning how to open a credit card account but

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Speaker 3: use it, you know wisely, Okay, pick one category, You're

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Speaker 3: just going to use it to buy gas, and you're

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Speaker 3: going to pay it off each month.

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Speaker 2: Things like that they have to kind of unlearn.

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Speaker 1: That's that's a really good point and I haven't even

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Speaker 1: really thought about that. Yeah, you're maybe you're indoctrinated in

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Speaker 1: some bad habits that you have to overcome, and so

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Speaker 1: it's not just like starting from scratch. Let me teach

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Speaker 1: you the game plan, but it's like we have to

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Speaker 1: confront some of those pre existing notions of what smart

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Speaker 1: money management looks like. I'm curious too, you decided to

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Speaker 1: write a textbook. Do you remember there was a professor

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Speaker 1: at one point who released an index card and he said,

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Speaker 1: everything you know and need to know about personal finance

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Speaker 1: exists on this three by five index card. Funnily enough,

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Speaker 1: he turned that into a book too, which just is like, okay,

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Speaker 1: or you're going to elaborate on this, but do you

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Speaker 1: feel like a text book was necessary? Any chance that

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Speaker 1: a textbook is overkill and that maybe what we need

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Speaker 1: to know about personal finance can be summed up in

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Speaker 1: less time.

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Speaker 3: So I actually think that the seven Steps to Financial Freedom,

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Speaker 3: which I borrowed from you guys, is the seven money gears.

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Speaker 2: I think that sums it up pretty well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: What I love about it is that students can learn

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Speaker 3: it in personal finance, and they can not only can

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Speaker 3: they share it with like, you know, their parents, their siblings,

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Speaker 3: their friends while they're in the course, but they can

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Speaker 3: keep coming back to it.

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Speaker 2: Right, It's like a one pager, you know.

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Speaker 3: Speaking of the index card, it's just a one page,

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Speaker 3: like here are the seven steps, and we know that

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Speaker 3: students they might get to step three and then they

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Speaker 3: might get back down to step one or step two,

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Speaker 3: and then they have to you know.

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Speaker 2: Start over, or they share it with a parent.

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Speaker 3: And the parents like, okay, I'm on step five, but

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Speaker 3: I see they did this out of order. They need

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Speaker 3: to go back and do something different. So you know,

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Speaker 3: I think that they can take that with them. The

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Speaker 3: textbook is the fundamentals, and there's a lot to cover

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Speaker 3: because we cover careers, negotiation, student loans, managing debt, buying

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Speaker 3: a car.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot to cover.

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Speaker 3: But if you just want that like one pager, I

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Speaker 3: think it's the seven steps.

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Speaker 1: I think you're spot on. I mean I think there.

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Speaker 1: It's why we're over a thousand episodes in here on

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Speaker 1: how to money. It's like there in some in one sense,

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Speaker 1: like it is simple and you can teach the basics

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Speaker 1: in no time, and something like the seven money Gears

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Speaker 1: is like the perfect inroad. But then it's also endlessly

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Speaker 1: nuanced and potentially complicated for individuals across the spectrum. And

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Speaker 1: so like, yeah, there's there's just a lot of stuff

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Speaker 1: to learn, and we live in a complicated world, and

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Speaker 1: the economy is quite complicated too, so the things that

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Speaker 1: we have to be aware of. You cover a bunch

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Speaker 1: of that stuff in your book. I'm curious, is the

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Speaker 1: main problem when you're teaching students about personal finance that

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Speaker 1: they don't have enough information? Or is it that they

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Speaker 1: don't feel empowered or able to change their circumstances. Are

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Speaker 1: you confronted with that dichotomy of people I just don't

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Speaker 1: know enough fill my brain up, or it's like no,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I know this stuff, but I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to execute.

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Speaker 2: I love that question. I think mindset matters so much.

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Speaker 3: So not Mary's a women's institution, and so imagine, you know,

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Speaker 3: having students who maybe take on you know, statistically take

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Speaker 3: on less risk, who maybe have less practice in negotiation.

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Speaker 1: And that's documented in studies, right that when you look

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Speaker 1: at female investors, typically they are more risk averse.

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Speaker 3: We talk about that, We say, okay, there is this

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Speaker 3: like gender divide, there is a negotiation gap, and just

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Speaker 3: knowing that the gap exists is helpful, right, Like just

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Speaker 3: knowing like, Okay, you know you're going to go into

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Speaker 3: a job and if you don't negotiate like someone else

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Speaker 3: is going to and they're going to get paid more

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Speaker 3: simply because they asked for it.

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Speaker 2: They might not work any harder than you do.

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Speaker 3: And so you know, explaining that to students, but then

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Speaker 3: also like learning how to negotiate, teaching students about compounding

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Speaker 3: interest and how exponential growth works. We can all learn it, right,

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Speaker 3: but there's this bias to understanding like or believing the math.

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Speaker 3: Actually people, there's just like a tendency to believe that

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Speaker 3: there's only linear growth, right, and that we underestimate exponential growth.

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Speaker 2: And so we talk a lot about those things. We

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Speaker 2: talk a lot.

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Speaker 3: About behavioral finance, we talk mindset, we talk mistakes. That's

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Speaker 3: one of my favorite topics actually is talking about money mistakes,

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Speaker 3: learning from them, resetting after a money mistake. And I

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Speaker 3: tell a lot of my own money mistakes because what

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Speaker 3: student doesn't love to hear their professor talk about the

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Speaker 3: mistakes they've made.

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Speaker 1: Which ones do you share?

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Speaker 3: And how did you?

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Speaker 1: How did you learn from those biggest mistakes?

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Speaker 3: Well, I I bought a house right before the housing

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Speaker 3: market crash.

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Speaker 1: So what was influencing you to do that at that point?

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Speaker 1: Was it because you thought it was the right time?

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Speaker 1: In your life to own a home or were you

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Speaker 1: like buying into the frenzy.

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Speaker 3: I was kind of in a rush to grow up,

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Speaker 3: I think back then, so this is like two thousand

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Speaker 3: and six, I was ready to own a house, and

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Speaker 3: I didn't really think about like the long term, like

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Speaker 3: is this the community that I want.

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Speaker 2: To stay in forever or for you know, a while.

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Speaker 2: And I just I think I was probably a little

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Speaker 2: bit impatient.

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Speaker 1: And so how did that impact your money journey? That

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Speaker 1: that mistake of buying house in O six?

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Speaker 3: You know, it probably impacted me for a while because

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Speaker 3: when I when you know, we sold that house and

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Speaker 3: bought a different house.

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Speaker 2: You know, those decisions kind of stick with.

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Speaker 3: You and they impact them on of acuity that you

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Speaker 3: could bring to another sale. So also just you know,

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Speaker 3: making splurge purchases, emotional purchases. I didn't fund my roth

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Speaker 3: Ira soon enough, So I talk a lot about that.

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Speaker 2: I put a lot of graphs up on the board.

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Speaker 3: We use online calculators, so we don't do things where

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Speaker 3: it's like, okay, you have to calculate the value of

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Speaker 3: a stock, because it's just not really kind of say

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Speaker 3: like we'll leave that for the finance majors.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and personal finance, like, let's use the online.

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Speaker 3: Calculators that you're going to use in the future when

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Speaker 3: you're buying a car.

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Speaker 1: It's like the only thing when I learned about money

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Speaker 1: as a kid in school, like it was the stock

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Speaker 1: market game. That was the only game we ever played.

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Speaker 1: It was like I didn't learn anything from it because

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Speaker 1: I bought xerox or something like that. Which it's uh,

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Speaker 1: and and it's like it's such a poor way to

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Speaker 1: teach kids about money. So if we're going to do it,

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Speaker 1: let's do it right.

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Speaker 2: It's dated.

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Speaker 3: I mean, investing now is buy ETFs you know here

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Speaker 3: probably the few that you might want to follow.

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Speaker 2: But the investing strategy is pretty boring, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's it's already sort of been diversified for you.

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Speaker 2: And so buy and hold. It's dollar cost averaging.

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Speaker 1: Do you do you think? And I'm curious, like those

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Speaker 1: money mistakes you made, did that ever make you feel

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Speaker 1: like you were bad with money? And when we talk

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Speaker 1: about like how a person views themselves their identity, I

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Speaker 1: think there's a lot of people who think of themselves

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Speaker 1: as being bad with money. Yeah, And is that something

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Speaker 1: you have to confront in class as well with your students.

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Speaker 2: We absolutely do.

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Speaker 3: So when I wrote the book, I noticed that a

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Speaker 3: lot of the books they just jumped right in with

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Speaker 3: maybe like checking savings accounts right or credit cards. And

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Speaker 3: my first two chapters are quite a bit of behavioral finance,

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Speaker 3: quite a bit of exploring your money history and trying

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Speaker 3: to figure out, Okay, what was the money environment that

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Speaker 3: you grew up in? Right, So it's called money classroom.

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Speaker 3: So what was the vibe in your household? Did your

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Speaker 3: parents or guardians talk about money or not? And then

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Speaker 3: we kind of like you know, talk about that to

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Speaker 3: say like, Okay, if that was your past experience, what

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Speaker 3: could your future experience be? Like, you don't have to

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Speaker 3: carry that forward for you or for you know, your

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Speaker 3: dependence or your future dependence, but you can, you can

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Speaker 3: change that story. So we do a lot of just

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Speaker 3: like examining, like what is your money history and what

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Speaker 3: changes can you make to move towards a more secure

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Speaker 3: have a more secure financial future?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how important are end goals in that conversation? So

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Speaker 1: I think sometimes when you're when people are trying to

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Speaker 1: teach money, it's like, let me tell you how the

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Speaker 1: IRA works. And let me tell you the the income

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Speaker 1: limits for the roth ira and how much you can

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Speaker 1: contribute to a four oh one K in a given year.

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Speaker 1: And they're like, okay, cool, yep, got it. Okay, here's

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Speaker 1: actually the best, you know, one of the the ETFs

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Speaker 1: you should consider. And they're like, okay, that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: But then there's no real discussion of like the why

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Speaker 1: behind why we're putting money aside in these accounts in

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Speaker 1: the first place. So how how important are end goals

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Speaker 1: in the conversations in particular with students who are trying

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Speaker 1: to kind of figure out personal finance.

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Speaker 3: So chapter two, students are reflecting on their reason for

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Speaker 3: financial freedom, So they're defining their why to say, like

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Speaker 3: why does this matter to me?

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Speaker 2: So, yes, I.

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Speaker 3: Can do the things, and I could put money here,

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Speaker 3: and I could put money there, and I can pay

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Speaker 3: off my credit card, but like, what is the purpose

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Speaker 3: of working through these seven steps? And maybe that's because

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Speaker 3: they want to start a business on their own right,

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Speaker 3: or maybe it's because they want to provide a more

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Speaker 3: secure future for their kid or whatever. So we have

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Speaker 3: them define those and a couple of other instructors teach

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Speaker 3: the course too, so they you know, sometimes they get

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Speaker 3: fun and they do things like a vision board or

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Speaker 3: they discuss these in class. But I think knowing that

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Speaker 3: why is really important, so that, like you said, it's

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Speaker 3: not just like Okay, I did the steps, but are

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Speaker 3: you going to stick with it if if you don't

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Speaker 3: know your why?

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Speaker 1: All right, Professor Christen Carrett, We've got more to get here.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about money habits and trade offs

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Speaker 1: and a lot more that you cover in your book.

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Speaker 1: So we'll be right back with Professor Christen Carriote. Are

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Speaker 1: we're back from the break, still talking with Professor Kristen

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Speaker 1: talking about the most powerful money levers you can pull.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that you talk about regularly,

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Speaker 1: Kristin is habits and just talked about like identity, but

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Speaker 1: identity really it needs to correlate to the things that

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Speaker 1: we're doing regularly in our lives, like the almost like

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Speaker 1: it's flowing out of us because that's who we've become.

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Speaker 1: And we've had habit experts on the show because I

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Speaker 1: just think it's a fascinating topic. But what do you

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Speaker 1: think maybe the are the top money habits that you

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Speaker 1: want your students to have to be have implemented by

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Speaker 1: the time they're graduating college or entering the world.

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Speaker 3: I would say one of the biggest habits is investing

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Speaker 3: even a small amount. So if you look at the

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Speaker 3: seven money gears or the seven steps, it is the

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Speaker 3: habit of dollar cost averaging. So with like a wroth Ira,

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Speaker 3: even if it's just a small amount, to show them

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Speaker 3: how interest compounds and how time matters the most. So

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Speaker 3: it's not about the amount of money going, but it's

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Speaker 3: the time horizon and just building up that habit. Right

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Speaker 3: of like saying, okay, I am a person who.

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Speaker 2: Invests, even if that's only five dollars a.

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Speaker 3: Month, right going into a wroth Ira or ten dollars

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Speaker 3: or fifteen. It's opening that account and taking that action

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Speaker 3: to open it, and then setting up a monthly contribution, right,

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Speaker 3: set it and forget it, automatic contributions, and then knowing

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Speaker 3: how they can they can change that or increase that

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Speaker 3: contribution as their circumstances change. But you can start doing

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Speaker 3: that in college and you probably I won't miss that

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Speaker 3: five or ten dollars, You'll probably forget about it. But

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Speaker 3: waiting to say, well, I'm not going to start investing

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Speaker 3: until like I really have, I'm settled, like I have

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Speaker 3: a full time job, or you know, I bought a

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Speaker 3: proper you know, bought a house or something like that.

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Speaker 3: You know, you're missing out on maybe five ten years

440
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 3: of investing, and it's time that matters.

441
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 2: So I say, that's one habit.

442
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 3: I'm really big uninvesting and and I kind of always

443
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 3: have been. And I think teaching in a women's college

444
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 3: that that's really really important. You know, one of my

445
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 3: goals is for all students to.

446
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 2: Leave the class.

447
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 3: Either being investors or seeing themselves as investors and having

448
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 3: a plan to invest other habits. I think having a

449
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 3: growth mindset, you know, is really important, and so just

450
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 3: learning from mistakes and saying okay, you know, with personal finance,

451
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 3: a lot of times we see avoidance behavior where you

452
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 3: know something something bad happen, you make a mistake, and

453
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 3: so you just want to like, you know, avoid the bill,

454
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 3: you want to avoid the emails that are coming. And

455
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 3: so having a growth mindset says like I can change

456
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 3: this trajectory.

457
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 2: I can figure it out.

458
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 3: I can ask questions, and maybe that means I have

459
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:21,360
Speaker 3: to change my student loan repayment plan, or maybe that

460
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 3: means that I have to figure out like a balanced

461
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 3: transfer credit card. But just having that growth mindset I

462
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,120
Speaker 3: think is really really important. So I think that goes

463
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 3: hand in hand with habits, Yeah, because you know, it

464
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 3: takes that growth mindset to develop those habits.

465
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: Like being proactive when you're confronted with a personal finance problem,

466
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: and the truth is we're all confronted with them fairly regularly. Yeah,

467
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: and that is that is something that like, Okay, wait

468
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: a second, I got this bill in the mail. How

469
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: do I proceed, whether it's if it's a healthcare bill,

470
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: Like do do I just pay it? Or do I

471
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: actually dig in to see whether or not this is

472
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: actually what I owe? Has it gone to my insurance

473
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 1: company first?

474
00:23:58,440 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 3: Right?

475
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: And so there's all these like proactive measures we need

476
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: to take, whereas if we bury our head in the

477
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: sand or we just pay the first bill or something

478
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: like that, Yeah, oftentimes we're paying more than we need to,

479
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: or we we just haven't taken the reins of our

480
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: own financial life. What's the pushback you get from students.

481
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: Is there a subject or something that you cover where

482
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 1: they're like whoa, whoa, that sounds a little crazy, or

483
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: like do you talk about savings rates and They're like,

484
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: what save twenty five or thirty percent? That's insane, Like,

485
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm curious what maybe you hit on.

486
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: Sometimes that just strikes a chord, maybe in the opposite direction,

487
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: or they're like, I don't understand why anyone would want

488
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: to do that.

489
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 2: I think retirement is a tough sell to college students.

490
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 1: They're so young, right, Yeah.

491
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 3: So even even older adults struggle with balancing, you know,

492
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 3: or prioritizing your future self with your present self.

493
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 2: Right, and so your present self.

494
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 3: Wants, you know, trendy clothes and wants to go out

495
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 3: to eat, and the future self, you know, wants the

496
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 3: nest egg.

497
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 2: So that could be tough because yeah, you say that

498
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 2: our word. Yeah, it's tough.

499
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 3: I show them, well, I show them graphs, and so

500
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 3: there's some people more visual I can say, like listen,

501
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 3: I get it.

502
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 2: But if you start here, even if it's just a

503
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 2: minimal amount, you get all this.

504
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 3: You know, you get this part of the curve on

505
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 3: the exponential growth of your compounding interest, and that's where

506
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 3: it's at, right, Like, so even a tiny amount like

507
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 3: early on, really really matters. So I think it's that

508
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 3: it's just like opening the account right, and so like okay,

509
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 3: they're like where where do you open an account? So

510
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 3: I say, okay, I like Fidelity, I like Vanguard. Those

511
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 3: are two great companies to start with. Let's work through

512
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 3: the steps to open one today. How do you set

513
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 3: up multi contributions?

514
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 2: So just I think.

515
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 3: Working through some of those hurdles together and making that

516
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 3: the class right. The class can be like actively working

517
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 3: on opening a wrath I array or actively working on Okay,

518
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 3: you're looking for a new job, and you might want

519
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 3: to consider a job that has an employer match for

520
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 3: for one k, like do a little bit of research,

521
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 3: and even like thirty forty minutes of research you can

522
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 3: see like hey, if I apply, you know at this

523
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 3: I don't name anybody, but you know this organization or institution,

524
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 3: like you know, I would get the same I'd get

525
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 3: paid the same amount, but I would actually get this

526
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 3: extra payment to my future self through the employer match.

527
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 3: So doing that research together, I think, or having them

528
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 3: do that in their assignment can be really helpful.

529
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: That's so smart, especially at that age. Like that total

530
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: benefits package, like what's my total compensation? Not just the

531
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: headline number of the annual salary that I'm getting paid.

532
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: The trade offs we know this in economics are like

533
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: in ever present reality, Like it is, trade offs make

534
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: the world go round in so many ways, like if

535
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: I want to sleep in, then I'm not going to

536
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: get my run in, or if I'm going to miss

537
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: breakfast with a friend. Right, So, what are the trade

538
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: offs that young people often ignore when they're kind of

539
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: making some of these financial decisions, or maybe what are

540
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: some of the trade offs that feel the most difficult?

541
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: Is it?

542
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 3: Oh?

543
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:13,679
Speaker 1: Man, I feel like I'm gonna have to give up

544
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: all these things that I love and care about, Like

545
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 1: I can't go to see Taylor Swift because tickets are

546
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: twelve hundred dollars and that means that I can't do both.

547
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: I can't do all of these things. How do you

548
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: talk about that reality of trade offs in personal finance?

549
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: Yeah?

550
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,239
Speaker 3: You know, one thing we talk about is how the

551
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,719
Speaker 3: fun stuff is what goes on social media and the

552
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 3: tradeoff of you staying home and packing your lunch probably

553
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 3: didn't make it to social media, right, Like, I don't know,

554
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 3: maybe meal prep that's kind of popular if.

555
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: You can be that influencer that's aggressive, you know.

556
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, But like for the most part, like you know,

557
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 4: paying off your student loans or paying or maybe you

558
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 4: got in over your head on a car loan and

559
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 4: so you actually decided to downgrade and go with a

560
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 4: less expense of car.

561
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: That doesn't make it on social media.

562
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 3: So I think talking about those things and just recognizing

563
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 3: that like sometimes boring is art or the you know,

564
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 3: less sexy stuff is just not what makes it to

565
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 3: social media what you see from your friends. But thinking

566
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 3: about like what are the ways that you can celebrate

567
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 3: those choices that you make, I think are really cool,

568
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 3: and I think just share them, sharing with each other,

569
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 3: like I decided to do this instead of this, I

570
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,719
Speaker 3: didn't go to the Taylor Swift concert, right, or I

571
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 3: didn't go out with my friends.

572
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 2: Instead we decided to all go for a hike or something.

573
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 3: I think sharing those decisions can be really really helpful

574
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 3: because I do that stuff all the time. I mean,

575
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 3: I'm like you guys, like I'm proud aldi shopper. I

576
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 3: am a proud person who's like always you know, calling

577
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 3: like the medical built making sure like is this truly

578
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 3: the price? Let me do a little you know, investigation.

579
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 3: So I think modeling that for students is also helpful.

580
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: So you work with a student population, you've said that

581
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: a lot of your students are actually living paycheck to paycheck.

582
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: Many of them are working one, maybe even two jobs

583
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: as they're getting through school as well. Is it harder

584
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: or is it easier to reach students given kind of

585
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: those students, given the constraints that they are under. Is

586
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: I'm just curious because maybe in some ways they are

587
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,239
Speaker 1: making an income and they have seen maybe some of

588
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: the negative realities of living paycheck to paycheck, so you

589
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: don't have to convince them of that. Whereas if they

590
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: came from a house where mom and dad were paying

591
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: for their education and they don't have to work at

592
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: all during school, maybe it just it doesn't feel as tangible.

593
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: So what is it like teaching a student population that

594
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: kind of maybe trends in that direction.

595
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'd say for a lot of students in

596
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 3: college that that is kind of a normal state to

597
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 3: be living paycheck to paycheck. It's the foundation that the

598
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 3: students have, or maybe the privilege that students have had

599
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 3: or don't have, that can really impact them in terms

600
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 3: of learning personal finance and again providing them that foundation.

601
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 3: And so I think the challenge is teaching to a

602
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 3: wide range of money experiences, and so some students will

603
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 3: come in with no credit card. Some students will come

604
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 3: in with one or two credit cards and using them,

605
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 3: you know, paying off the monthly or paying off the

606
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 3: statement balance every month. And then some are coming in

607
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 3: with quite a bit of credit card debt. So it's

608
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 3: teaching to the different experiences and where they're at that

609
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 3: can be challenging. And so I think the actually the

610
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 3: seven steps are so helpful because not everyone's going to

611
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 3: be on that same step, but we can all talk

612
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 3: about them in a way that okay, you're on step three,

613
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 3: you're on step one, and you are on five, but

614
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 3: you missed down on two. So you know, using that

615
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 3: as a framework can be something that's helpful when they

616
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 3: do have different experiences coming into the class. K.

617
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of going back to what we were talking

618
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: about earlier, connecting it to a goal, I mean, similar

619
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: thing with the order of operations, having a specific one

620
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: through seven sort of way to go that versus just

621
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: throwing out throwing out a litany of action items that

622
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: you could do, giving kind of a well, this is

623
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: the most important thing for you with where you're at

624
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: right now. Do your students tend to identify with that

625
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: and be like, oh, well, okay, this is where I'm at,

626
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: and then also maybe get excited about how quickly they

627
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: can move. I mean, we get listener emails all the

628
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: time and they're like, I'm in money Gear three, man,

629
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to plan on being money Gear five, like

630
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: fourteen months from now. And there's something about that specificity

631
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: of like here's where I'm at, here's where I'm headed

632
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: that can just help move the needle, And I think

633
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: make progress happen a lot more quickly for people.

634
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, you need a map, you need a guide.

635
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 3: And so I think for the same reason there's a

636
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 3: ton of research right that like checklists matter and they work,

637
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 3: So the same reason a doctor is going to use

638
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 3: a checklist when they're going into a surgery to say like, Okay,

639
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 3: these are the things I know have to happen to

640
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 3: have a successful surgery.

641
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 2: That works in.

642
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 3: Personal finance, right, so that students can say like, Okay,

643
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 3: I'm checking things off as I go and I can

644
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 3: see where I'm at and where I have to go.

645
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 3: I also love it that they're universal that like if

646
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 3: you came in with debt. If you came in with

647
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 3: a money education where you had to learn a lot

648
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 3: of things, you still use the same seven steps.

649
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, even the age thing.

650
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 3: Right, So like I might have some traditional age students

651
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 3: who are twenty one, and then I might have some

652
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 3: students who are returning adult students who are maybe in

653
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 3: their thirties or forties.

654
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 2: Is the same seven steps?

655
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: Are are those students who are coming back to school

656
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: later in life? Do you feel like they're impacted differently

657
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: by the personal finance course?

658
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,719
Speaker 3: Well, they're kind of my favorite students. Really get it

659
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 3: and they see the value in it. So I would

660
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 3: say they because they have so much life experience, are

661
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 3: so much more life experience that they're able to probably

662
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 3: ask more questions or you know, just really understand different

663
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 3: things with like employer benefits or you know, health insurance

664
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 3: HSA reimbursements, all sorts of things. Yeah, but it's great

665
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,959
Speaker 3: to have those students together, right, It's great to have

666
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 3: them in the class because otherwise it's just like I

667
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 3: don't want to just be talking about my experience the

668
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: whole time.

669
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: I love it when they interact with each other.

670
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: So I'm curious, do you bring up the word budget,

671
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: and if so, how do you bring it up, because

672
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: there's like this knee jerk aversion I think to that word,

673
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: and most people view that word almost like a four

674
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: letter word, like it's profane, Like get that out of

675
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: and get that out of my face. That's like a

676
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: that's a lifestyle ruiner, right there, professor, So how do

677
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: you talk about that in a way that maybe isn't

678
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: off pudding?

679
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get it.

680
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 3: So we call budgets a plan and we keep like

681
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 3: that to that word, right like it's a plan.

682
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: Rebrand it, you know.

683
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

684
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 3: And we also keep it pretty open on how students

685
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 3: want to do their plan, so they can do if

686
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 3: they want to do a budgeting app awesome, if they

687
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 3: want to do a spreadsheet or paper and pencil, like

688
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 3: whatever works for them. So we kind of go through

689
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 3: like here are some common ways to budget, but we

690
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 3: always do zero based budget, so regardless of the method,

691
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 3: the plan is always in a zero based budget.

692
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 2: Every dollar has a job. So we use it as

693
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: as a plan, use it as a tool.

694
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 3: And one of the things that we do is we

695
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 3: show how, okay, if you have a baseline budget and

696
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 3: then you have a future budget, and you have a

697
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 3: financial goal, and that financial goal is to let's say

698
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 3: you're step one and you want to increase, you want

699
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 3: to build your basic emergency fund. Okay, you've got nothing

700
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 3: and you need fifteen hundred dollars.

701
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: What we do twenty four hundred and sixty seven? You

702
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 1: know whatever?

703
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 2: Are you an economist?

704
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 3: I wish we say, Okay, now use your budget and

705
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 3: show how you could do that in four months. Use

706
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 3: your budget and show how you could do that in

707
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 3: six months or whatever, you know, eight twelve months. And

708
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 3: so we use it as a tool to say, like, okay,

709
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 3: here are some different scenarios. And the cool thing about

710
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 3: maybe a spreadsheet is that you can just you know,

711
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 3: copy it over and say like, okay, if we just

712
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 3: change the timeline, how can we move these levers and

713
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 3: see how we can we can make change faster or slower.

714
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 3: It doesn't always have to be fast, but we can

715
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 3: say also, like, let's say you do pick up some

716
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 3: side work and maybe it's not maybe it's not like

717
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 3: gigwork how we normally think about it. But maybe you're

718
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 3: like you babysit or you cut hair on the side. Right,

719
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:56,919
Speaker 3: if you could bring in an extra one hundred bucks

720
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 3: a month. How can that impact your your goal in

721
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 3: your plan?

722
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: What are some of the biggest lifestyle reactions that some

723
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: of your students have had. Curious has anyone ever come

724
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: up and been like Professor Carrioti, It turns out I

725
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: just realized this, I can't actually afford the school that

726
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: I'm going to right now, or I've got to reconsider

727
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: my approach to student loans. I mean, what sorts of

728
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: light bulb moments have you seen in the classroom.

729
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, when we do when we look at careers, we

730
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 3: do research your career and then we do research yourself

731
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 3: and then we kind of talk about like is that

732
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 3: a match for you? Because if you are investing in

733
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 3: your degree and then there's not going to be a

734
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 3: payoff for that, there's a gap there and how are

735
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 3: you going to make that up?

736
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: So have you seen people like change majors because of

737
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: the personal finance class?

738
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 3: You know, we don't track that, but possibly what we

739
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 3: do use is the BLS Occupational Outlook Handbook.

740
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 2: It's a government website.

741
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 3: Again, not the sexiest tool, but it does a good

742
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 3: job of explaining what the job outlook is for a

743
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 3: certain career. But it also shows you like adjacent careers.

744
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 3: So maybe you always thought you wanted to be a

745
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 3: nurse or going to real estate. I know those are

746
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 3: two different things, but you look up that job and

747
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 3: it's like in their assignment, look up that these two

748
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 3: jobs that you think you might want to go into,

749
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 3: and then look at the adjacent jobs, like what else

750
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 3: is similar to that but possibly has like a better

751
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,280
Speaker 3: job outlook? And how do you keep your options open

752
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 3: so that you can maybe do that. We talk about

753
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 3: experiential learning, internships, job shadows, interviews, all these ways to

754
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 3: learn more about this career that you're going into. You're

755
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 3: spending a lot of money right on your degree, and

756
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 3: is that truly.

757
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:50,439
Speaker 2: The best thing for you?

758
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 3: Do that job shadow because it's like free, right, job

759
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 3: shadow is like half a day.

760
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 2: Test it out first, test it out.

761
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 3: And see to learn, like, Okay, I like what they're doing,

762
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 3: but what's she doing over there that looks cool? Or

763
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 3: I'm gonna sit in on this meeting or this call

764
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 3: because it's similar but it's maybe a little bit different.

765
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 2: Or I didn't even know that that job existed.

766
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:19,800
Speaker 1: Do you have discussions about dream jobs versus the commensurate

767
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: pay and the likelihood of success. Like I think about

768
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: how a huge percentage of young people, myself included. When

769
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: I was a little I was like, I want to

770
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 1: be a professional basketball player, and there was no chance

771
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: that was gonna happen for me. Right, It doesn't It

772
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: doesn't matter how much work I put in. It just

773
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: it was impossible. Even though I'm six six, I just

774
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: don't have I have zero talent. Yeah, I know. People

775
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: ask me all the time and it just rubs me

776
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: the wrong way because they're like, do you play basketball?

777
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,479
Speaker 1: And I'm like, kind of, but not really. Well, So, yeah,

778
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: when you talk about that, there is this kind of

779
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 1: there has been this push I think in a big

780
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: part of our culture to say, choose the thing that

781
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,479
Speaker 1: lights you up and that makes you happy every single day.

782
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: And I think it's the rare people who really get

783
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: that ultimate blend of all things where they absolutely love

784
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: their work every day day and day out, and they

785
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: get paid incredibly Well, how do you talk about that

786
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: trade offs?

787
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 3: There? You know, I talk about how job security also

788
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 3: makes you pretty happy.

789
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: That's true.

790
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 3: And so I'm a labor economist, so I think a

791
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 3: lot about careers and why people choose the jobs that

792
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 3: they do. And I also have four kids, and I'm

793
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 3: probably not going to be the parent who's like, follow

794
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,720
Speaker 3: your dreams. I'm going to be like, here's the menu

795
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 3: of options. We'll see if that works, you know, maybe

796
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 3: two or three we'll follow that.

797
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 2: But the reality is that.

798
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 3: Jobs change, industries change, right, So you might have those

799
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 3: hopes it might not even be there when you get

800
00:39:59,280 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 3: to graduation.

801
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 2: But also.

802
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 3: There's other ways to like fill that bucket, and it

803
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 3: might not be your full time job. So if you

804
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 3: love personal training, for example, you might want to go

805
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 3: into exercise science and you might want to pursue it

806
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 3: as a full time career.

807
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 2: Awesome.

808
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 3: You might also want to do something else and do

809
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 3: that on the side. Yeah, right, Like you don't have

810
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 3: to give it up. There's other ways to fulfill those

811
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 3: passions through volunteer work.

812
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 2: Through part time work, and you know, through travel. There's

813
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 2: all sorts of ways to do that.

814
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 3: I don't think it always has to be your full

815
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 3: time job, and like you said, it's often not.

816
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. Sometimes when you make your passion your job, you

817
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: hate your passion like it turns on you too, so

818
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: you have to be careful about that. Yeah, all right,

819
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: I got a few more questions I want to get

820
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: to with you, Kristen, specifically want to talk about like

821
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 1: fintech and tools that people use to make money progress.

822
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: I'm curious to hear your take on those and how

823
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: much your students adopt them and whether or not they're

824
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,720
Speaker 1: super helpful. So we'll get to a few more questions

825
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: with Professor Kristen Carriot about powerful money levers. Right after this,

826
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: we're back still talking with Professor Kristin karrioty about the

827
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 1: most powerful money levers that you can pull to make

828
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 1: lots of financial progress in your life. And this has

829
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: already been so informative. I love just hearing kind of

830
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: what's going on inside the classroom and the way that

831
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 1: young people are responding to the material that you're covering,

832
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,240
Speaker 1: and just like how much you care about this obviously, Kristin.

833
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: I mean, this is clearly a passion of yours and

834
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: something that you've cared about for a long time, and

835
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: you're turning that into a lot of education for a

836
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: lot of people, Like you're impacting the lives of young

837
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: people in a significant way. I got to imagine they're

838
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: going to go forward in like five years from now

839
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: be like yeah, I have this like roth Iray with

840
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: like fifty grand in it because my professor like, that's

841
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 1: a really cool thing.

842
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

843
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, to be able to make happen. And I hope

844
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: they reach back out to you because I know that

845
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: means a lot to teachers too, when they get that

846
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 1: email randomly or something like that from a former student.

847
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: I'm curious though, when like we've experienced this massive fintech boom.

848
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: I think some of it's been good, some of it's

849
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: been not so good. Those initial companies felt like they

850
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: were coming from this place like Acorns or just why Now,

851
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: but just some great companies trying to really help people

852
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: out and translate personal finance into the digital age. But

853
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 1: since then, I feel like we've seen a lot of

854
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 1: companies maybe not praying on people, but not maybe in

855
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: behaviorally taking advantage of people in some ways to get

856
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:41,760
Speaker 1: them to do things that are not in their best interest.

857
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,879
Speaker 1: So how do you talk about personal finance tools? Which

858
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: ones people should pick up or which ones people should

859
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: avoid when it comes to managing their money. Do you

860
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:56,399
Speaker 1: think digital tools are a necessity or helpful or could

861
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: be the opposite.

862
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 2: I think do what works.

863
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 3: Tool or an app works for you and you like it,

864
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 3: go for it. Don't force it. If you try something

865
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 3: and it's not working. I mean, how many apps have

866
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 3: you tried and you're like, it's not going to work

867
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 3: for me. Sometimes, you know, there's a reason why the

868
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 3: envelope system worked, you know, for so many people for

869
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 3: so long. There's a reason why just writing down, you know,

870
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 3: something in a journal or maybe in your notes app.

871
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 3: Let's say you're doing like a a no spend challenge,

872
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 3: so you're trying to not spend money for a month

873
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 3: or two weeks or something. You know, you just you

874
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 3: can just write that down in your notes app in

875
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 3: your phone. It doesn't have to be some fancy tool.

876
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: So yeah, do what works.

877
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 3: And we also take a DIY approach a lot of times.

878
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 3: There are a lot of ways that you know, students

879
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 3: get kind of preyed upon. So thinking about things like

880
00:43:54,400 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 3: debt settlement, credit repair, there's a lot of ways and

881
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 3: subscription pricing models that students use that they can do

882
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 3: those things on their own through a DIY approach using

883
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 3: free resources. You know, a company can't fix your credit

884
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,399
Speaker 3: any better than you can on your own, right, and well.

885
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: They'll try to charge you a lot for the taking

886
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: it off your hands, right exactly.

887
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can do all of that yourself with

888
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 3: like just learning kind of some basics. So we do

889
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 3: quite a bit of education on like what's the DIY

890
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 3: approach to something, making sure that you're not paying for

891
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 3: something that you don't you know, truly need.

892
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: Identity theft is another one.

893
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 3: Students using some subscription based identity theft products, yeah, services,

894
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 3: and and they're really not valuable. They should be spending

895
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 3: spending their money elsewhere.

896
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: So that's that's one of those things that doesn't really

897
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: get talked about much in the personal finance space is

898
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: how much like bad but seemingly good stuff is out

899
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: there for people, like credit repair. When you hear the advertisement,

900
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: it sounds like a no brainer. Yeah, well my credit stinks,

901
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: it's in the dumps, so I should totally sign up

902
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: for this service. It's going to help me out of that.

903
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 1: And there are other services like self which used to

904
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 1: be called self lender, that is kind of cool and

905
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 1: can help you raise your score in a reasonable, real

906
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: way that doesn't cost too much money. But then there's

907
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: all these other players out there that will totally take

908
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: advantage of you and charge you way too much and

909
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: it is something you could do yourself. How do you

910
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 1: talk about realizing or seeing spotting those bad players who

911
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: will take advantage of you and or you know, even

912
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 1: people who maybe you're just not ready for a financial

913
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: advisor yet and it is going to be costly. So

914
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: it's not even that they're bad or they're trying to

915
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: take advantage of you, it's just that you're not at

916
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: that point in your in your personal finance progress where

917
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: that's necessary. How do you talk to students about, like

918
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: how avoiding the bad stuff and waiting on stuff that

919
00:45:57,719 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: they might not be ready for.

920
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 3: I'm going to add another example, and that's life insurance. Yeah, right,

921
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 3: you know life insurance. Don't you care about your family,

922
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 3: don't you want to protect them?

923
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 2: So there's there, there are There is good.

924
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 3: Life insurance, right, and I think we agree that that's term.

925
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 3: But other types of life insurance, you know, often are

926
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 3: being sold to people and they don't really need them.

927
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 2: Other're being over insured. So you know, I think.

928
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 3: Comes down to doing a research, just trying to be skeptical,

929
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,240
Speaker 3: like can I is someone trying to sell me something?

930
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 3: Can I do this on my own? Asking questions? We

931
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 3: talk about the different types of financial advisors and so

932
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 3: asking questions if you are going to, you know, look

933
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 3: into using a financial advisor at using you know the

934
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 3: right type, so we get into that.

935
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 2: So do research, be skeptical, ask questions.

936
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 1: Last question for you the when it comes to learning

937
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: personal finance. As you know, you have been kind of

938
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: an avid lifelong learner in this space. It's not one

939
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 1: and done. You don't take the class in college and

940
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: then you're just set for the rest of your life.

941
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:04,280
Speaker 1: You know everything you need to know in your personal

942
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: finance life is going to go perfectly. So how do

943
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,280
Speaker 1: you talk to your students about becoming a lifelong learner

944
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: in this space and maybe some great places to turn

945
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 1: or what it looks like to continue to pursue that

946
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 1: education once they finish your class.

947
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 3: I think knowing yourself really matters. They do self assessments

948
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 3: in the course, and so having that knowledge of like okay,

949
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 3: I am I value experiences over things or I So

950
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 3: that's like a money value self assessment. Or there's one

951
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 3: on valuing your presen self versus your future self, like

952
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 3: are you balanced?

953
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 2: Do you know do you over prioritize one or the other?

954
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 3: I think in the class kind of knowing some of

955
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 3: those sort of those types or some of those like

956
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 3: tendencies can be really helpful moving forward because in the

957
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 3: future then they can say like, oh, I'm a person

958
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 3: who values experiences over things. That's why I'm choosing this,

959
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 3: or that's why they didn't really feel that good. It

960
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 3: seems like it was a good idea to buy that thing,

961
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 3: But what I really want to do is spend time

962
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 3: with this person or whatever. So I think that's one thing,

963
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 3: is just setting them up to know themselves better and

964
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 3: then you know, find what works for you.

965
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: Is that a podcast?

966
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 3: You know?

967
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 2: Is that the hot of money podcast is that.

968
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 3: It should be you know, look at your feed in

969
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 3: your social media. Are you following people who are like

970
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 3: encouraging money management that aligns with your with your money values.

971
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 2: And it doesn't always have to be like a like

972
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 2: a fit.

973
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 3: Influencer, you know, or someone who's just talking about money,

974
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 3: but it could be someone who's into anti consumption or

975
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 3: someone who's into zero waste or something like that, and

976
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 3: so kind of curating the information that comes in. But

977
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 3: I also recommend a few books, I recommend you know,

978
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 3: some people to follow, and always tell them that you

979
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 3: know they can always reach out to me, that I'd

980
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 3: be happy to hear from them and answer their question

981
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 3: and hear how life's going for them.

982
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 1: I love it. Okay, where can our listeners find out

983
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: more about you and find out more about your textbook?

984
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 1: If they want the granular, full on guide to how

985
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 1: to manage all their personal finances, your textbook could certainly

986
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: be a resource for them. So yeah, where can how

987
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: the money listeners find out more about you?

988
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 3: And that I have a pretty basic website, It's just

989
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 3: Kristincarriot dot com, and on that website can make sure

990
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 3: that the seven steps to financial Freedom are there. So

991
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 3: that's just that one pager that you can use in

992
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 3: reference over and over. But my books on Stage Publishing's

993
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 3: website and I'm also on LinkedIn.

994
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: Awesome, it was a pleasure talking with you, Kristin. Thank

995
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: you so much for joining me today on the show.

996
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: Thank you, oh man. That was great. Really glad to

997
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 1: have Professor Kristin Carriot on to talk about personal finances

998
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: with me today. And I love that it goes like

999
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: she obviously nerds out about personal finances to the point

1000
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 1: that she wrote the textbook to the point that she

1001
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 1: prodded her college to start offering a personal finance class

1002
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: when it previously didn't exist, and then was obviously persuasive

1003
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 1: enough to get her college to be like, yeah, we're

1004
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: going to make that a requirement for everyone to graduate.

1005
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: And this was before it kind of kind of became

1006
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: widespread really in the culture, and some states had it

1007
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: mandatory at that point in time, but many states didn't.

1008
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: And so I'm just I think it's fascinating to hear

1009
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 1: the details of what it looks like to reach, especially

1010
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: a lot of younger people who are getting out into

1011
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 1: the real world starting to manage personal finances. I mean,

1012
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: for a lot of us, college was our first experience

1013
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: of living life on our own. Of like, I know,

1014
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: for me much, I don't know what this says about me,

1015
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 1: but like doing my own laundry. Right before then, my

1016
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 1: mom did all my laundry. My kids now do their

1017
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 1: own laundry. I've learned from that. But like, going out

1018
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 1: there and managing your own finances is a tall task,

1019
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 1: especially in a world where we're drawn by marketing and

1020
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 1: images of celebrities and just popular culture. The things that

1021
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: it espouses is being good often cost a heck of

1022
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: a lot of money. And so I just love that

1023
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 1: Professor Kristen Carreot is in the trenches talking about these

1024
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: things with her students, and it sounds like it's having

1025
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 1: a massive impact. I think just a couple of the

1026
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,959
Speaker 1: big things that struck me in this conversation. I love

1027
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: when she talked about unlearning as a necessity. And the

1028
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 1: truth is, yeah, we're you listening to this podcast. You're

1029
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: not starting from scratch. You are not like an empty

1030
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 1: piece of paper where we can just kind of start

1031
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 1: writing something fresh. Like there might need to be things

1032
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: that are scribbled out. We might need to break out

1033
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: the white out right and just go to town on

1034
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: some of the pages that you have written, whether it's

1035
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,240
Speaker 1: in the things that you think are the most important

1036
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 1: when it comes to money, whether it is is in

1037
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 1: the money habits, maybe that you've handled some of our

1038
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 1: bad habits, so know that, Hey, what do I need

1039
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:12,439
Speaker 1: to go back to the drawing board on and maybe

1040
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 1: rethink what's maybe a money script that's underlying a lot

1041
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: of how we behave and think about and handle my

1042
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 1: money that I haven't questioned, And maybe I need to

1043
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 1: go back and question that. So unlearning can be a

1044
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: necessity in making progress with our money. I also really

1045
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 1: appreciate it, and I think this is something we talk

1046
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 1: about on the show regularly as well. Is truly the

1047
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 1: un sexy stuff doesn't make it on social media, but

1048
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: a lot of that un sexy stuff is what sets

1049
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 1: you up for a lot of success, a lot of

1050
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 1: extra margin in your life, and a lot of future optionality.

1051
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: So it's it's not going to make the Influencer Hall

1052
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: of Fame, So those decisions that you choose to make

1053
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: that are better for your ultimate financial reality. It just

1054
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: what struck me when she was talking about that was

1055
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 1: the basic example in the book The Millionaire next Door,

1056
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: which is super old school personal finance book. And when

1057
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 1: you hold up two pictures to somebody, one of a

1058
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 1: guy driving or a gal driving a Toyota Corolla in

1059
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: front of a eighteen hundred square foot house wearing just

1060
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,720
Speaker 1: super normal clothes, and then you hold up another picture

1061
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: of someone in a six thousand square foot mansion and

1062
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 1: a fancy Jaguar or something like that, in a decked

1063
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: out suit with a Gucci bag. Well, which one of

1064
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 1: these is the financially successful person? And immediately almost everybody

1065
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 1: would point to the person with a really nice house

1066
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: and car as being the financially successful one. But the

1067
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: truth is being financially successful often doesn't present itself on

1068
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 1: the surface. The more we spend to show that we

1069
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: are living a certain kind of life, often it's funded

1070
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: through debt through credit cards. Not always right. It's okay.

1071
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,879
Speaker 1: Some people do have fancy houses and cars and they

1072
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 1: are also financially successful, great investors, and have tons of

1073
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: margin in their lives. But I'm just saying, I guess,

1074
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: on average, like what is true, and the truth is

1075
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:16,319
Speaker 1: that the person who spends less and invests more of

1076
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: their money is going to be more financially successful and

1077
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 1: have more future options in their lives. So I was

1078
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: really thankful that she took the time to have this

1079
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 1: conversation with me. Today. You can pick up her textbook

1080
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 1: if you want a personal finance textbook, if you like,

1081
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: want the whole kit kaboodle straight tom A.

1082
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 3: Vane.

1083
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 1: I think it's a really it's really cool. She did

1084
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 1: a great job with it. So thank you as always

1085
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 1: for listening to this podcast. Thanks for listening to this episode.

1086
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: We will be back with a fresh Friday Flight episode

1087
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,800
Speaker 1: in a couple of days until next time, best friend

1088
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 1: out

1089
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 3: Yeah,