WEBVTT - The 2024 Ig Nobels, Part 1 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:07.080 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:14.600 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.759 My name is Robert Lamb and my name is Joe McCormick. 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:20.440 And it is that time again. Sometimes we don't get 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.600 around to these till November, but this year we're hitting 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:26.920 them fresh off of the shelf. The winners were just 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:30.760 announced last Thursday evening. I believe it is time wants 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:33.400 more to discuss some of the winners for this year's 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:37.000 Ignobel Prizes. Now, if you're not familiar with these, if 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:38.800 you haven't been listening to the show that long, or 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.159 maybe you just need a reminder. The ig Nobels are 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.760 a series of awards given out once a year by 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:48.239 a scientific humor journal named the Annals of Improbable Research, 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:52.160 edited for many years now by Mark Abrahams, and their 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:56.360 stated purpose is to quote honor achievements that first make 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.880 people laugh and then make them think. We always have 0:00:59.920 --> 0:01:02.320 a great time with these. You can learn more about 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:06.200 them at Improbable dot com. They have a big one 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:08.640 pager there where you can go through all of the 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:12.480 winners throughout the years. There's a lot of amusing stuff. 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:14.959 In there that's right, and they feature works that are 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:18.920 funny for different reasons. Sometimes the papers that get selected 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:23.480 for prizes are things that are supposed to be funny, 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:27.240 like they are intentionally satirical. One that often comes to 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.600 mind is a paper we covered on the raiology of cats, 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:32.960 meaning the study of how cats flow our cats a 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:36.440 liquid or a solid. But more often these are just 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:41.080 real scientific experiments that are straightforward science in one way 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:44.720 or another, published in real scientific journals that happen to 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:49.960 have some weirdly funny either methodology, the format of the 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:53.440 experiment is funny, or the finding of the experiment is funny. 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.040 Yeah, I mean it varies greatly. It depends on what 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.480 the subject matter is, the methodology, and yet your point, 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:02.840 sometimes it is something that was intended to be more 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.600 overtly satirical. And then also the other thing that's worth 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.000 driving home here, and this will become very apparent as 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.680 we get into some of the winners we're discussing and 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:14.840 from this year, is that sometimes these are fairly recent 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:17.920 studies that have recently made it through even the mainstream 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:21.240 news cycle because they are kind of giggle inducing. But 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.000 other times they dig deeper and they get stuff that's 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:28.120 decades old. So you know, it's not necessary, it's not 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.440 as timely as some awards shows might be. But the 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:33.880 results are always interesting, you know, sometimes they really pull 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.720 out a deep cut. Now, in the past, we've been 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:39.960 covering these for many years. In the past, we've tried 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:43.160 to cover all of the winners, or a vast majority 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:45.880 of the winners. I don't think we're doing that this year. 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:47.720 I think we're probably just going to cover some of 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:49.320 the winners, some of the ones that jump out to 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:51.800 us the most, that would be the most fun for 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:54.280 us to chat about. But again, if you want to 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:56.400 read the fullest of awards from this year and check 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.840 out all of the research that got highlighted this year's awards, here, 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:02.760 you can go to the Journal's web website. Again, that 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:04.359 is improbable dot com. 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:06.360 Robert, you all right, if I kick things off with 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:08.919 this year's Physiology Prize. 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:10.519 Yes, give the people what they want. 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:14.720 Trivia question, how many different holes in your body can 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:15.680 you breathe through? 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:19.680 Take your time think about it. 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:22.520 I had to think, and I was like, I'm pretty 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:26.520 sure the answer is three. Right, I got mouth, nostril, nostril, 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.160 any other serious ones, And I think that's it now. 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:34.800 Of course, these three orifices do not represent fundamentally different 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:39.720 ways of breathing. They're just different doorways to the exact 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.960 same hallway, right. They're all different openings that lead to 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.880 the same exchange machinery. In the lungs, of course, the 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:52.000 cells in our bodies need oxygen for cellular respiration. Oxygen 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:55.200 is used to break down the energy containing molecules that 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:58.880 we get from food to generate a tendency in triphosphate 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.160 or ATP, which powers our bodies at the cellular level. 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.480 This respiration process in the cells, of course, requires a 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:10.760 constant supply of incoming oxygen, and it generates carbon dioxide 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:14.320 as a primary waste product, which is also exchanged through 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:17.640 the lungs purged when we breathe out. So, yes, these 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.360 three holes are the normal three ways you get oxygen 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:23.880 into the lungs and carbon dioxide out. But here's a 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:28.880 perhaps tougher trivia question. Can any of our body cells 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:34.240 get their oxygen from anywhere other than the lungs. The 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:38.680 surprising answer to this one is yes. Now, the proportion 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:42.360 of our cells that can do this is relatively small. 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:46.479 Most of our cells rely on oxygen delivered through the 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:51.320 blood stream from the lungs to perform cellular respiration. So 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:54.080 don't start thinking you don't need your lungs. But it's 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:58.280 true that some cells in our bodies acquire oxygen by 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:03.919 passive diffusion from the surrounding air. Unsurprisingly, these tend to 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:07.040 be cells on the outsides of our bodies, so the 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:10.760 very outermost layer of our skin, cells in the top 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.160 quarter of a millimeter or so, or maybe a little 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:17.200 bit deeper. Also, the cells on the outside front of 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:20.240 our eyeballs, according to what I was reading, gets some 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:24.039 amount of oxygen from the surrounding air. This would be 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:27.920 cells in the tissue known as the cornea. And it's 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:33.919 especially important here for the cornea not to be completely vascularized, 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:37.880 not to be supplied with blood vessels, because we have 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:40.560 to see through the lens of our eyes covering the 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.560 pupil in order to get the light in onto the retina. 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.839 You can imagine it might be a little distracting if 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:50.080 the lenses of your eyes were full of blood vessels. 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.200 To supply all those cells with freshly oxygenated blood. 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:57.599 Well, this seems like a refreshingly mature subject area for 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.680 the ignobells to have focused on here something about our 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:02.960 cornea is breathing. Yeah, I like it. 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.719 That's not what this prize is about. So this year's 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:10.080 Physiology prize was awarded to and I apologize if I 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:13.839 pronounced anybody's name wrong, but two a list of authors 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:20.440 including Riyo Okabe, Toyo, Toyofumi, f Chin Yoshikawa, Yosuke Yoonoyama, 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:27.520 yo Hey Yokoyama, Satona Tanaka, Akihiko Yoshizawa, Wendy L. Thompson, 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:34.440 Gokul khanan Aji Kobayashi, Hiroshi Daate, and Takanori takebe four 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:40.599 discovering that many mammals are capable of breathing through their anus. 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:43.880 All right, there it is now. This paper was published 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:47.719 in the Journal MED in May or June of twenty 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:50.120 twenty one. I've seen different citations on that. In the 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.040 spring of twenty twenty one, whenever that issue was and 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.680 I was reading several supplementary sources to get some background 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:00.600 and explanation on their findings. And so these sources include 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:04.279 a commentary piece also published in the Journal MED, sort 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:09.040 of explaining the background and significance of this main research paper. 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:15.040 The commentary piece was by a Yale gastroentrology fellow named 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.680 Caleb Kelly. This was published along with the paper and 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.320 the same issue, I believe, And then also I was 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.200 reading a New York Times article reporting on the findings 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.400 and including some interviews. This was by Elizabeth Preston from 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.960 May twenty twenty one. So I think this paper is 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.960 a bullseye in terms of the Ignobel's goal of making 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.960 people laugh and then making them think, yes, it is 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:41.320 about breathing through your butt, but it sent me down 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.120 a lot of interesting trails and it may turn out 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:49.720 to have quite real medical significance. So the procedure that 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:53.000 they're going to be describing in this paper is being 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:59.040 called EVA or EVA, which stands for interial ventilation via anus. 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:01.920 Shout out to all the people named EVA or AVA. 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.120 If this becomes a part of the common medical parlance, 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:06.400 you're just gonna have to deal with. 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.440 It, yea. It might have to bust out full Evelyn 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:09.120 or whatever. 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:14.640 Yeah. So Caleb Kelly in the commentary piece makes an 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.480 interesting observation about this, which is that, yes, it's funny 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:21.000 to think about breathing via the anus. But Kelly writes, 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.440 quote initial perception of AVA is likely to parallel that 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:30.640 of fecal microbiota transplant for recurrency deficial infection, which not 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:35.800 long ago was deemed untenable for quote practical and esthetic reasons, 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:40.720 but now has less stigma as data supporting effectiveness are overwhelming. 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:45.280 So this is talking about another medical discovery in recent 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:50.120 decades that was once considered much more weird and shocking 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:55.920 the use of fecal microbiota transplants literally transplanting poop from 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:59.840 one person's digestive system into another and carrying along with 0:08:59.880 --> 0:09:05.079 it all of the microbiota that live on it, transplanting 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:09.680 that into the digestive system of somebody who has maybe 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:14.840 an antibiotic resistant infection by the Bacterium seed officile. This 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:18.520 was once considered a fairly crazy treatment idea, but now 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.319 it is widely used and is considered generally very effective. 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:27.120 So could ventilation via the anus one day have a similar. 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.120 Arc Yeah, I mean it's possible, because yeah, I remember 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.960 when the idea of fecal transplants was more of this 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:36.360 kind of like fringy. Oh my goodness, imagine imagine if 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:39.520 this became standard, and now it pretty much has. You know, 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.560 it's not that crazy of an idea, So I don't 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:44.280 know it's possible. I mean, the thing is if it 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.680 ultimately works and it helps save lives, that you know, 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:48.920 that's going to make all the difference. 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.520 So the New York Times article and this included some 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:54.000 quotes from one of the lead authors of the study, 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:58.520 doctor Takanori Takebe of the Tokyo Medical and Dental University, 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:03.160 who apparently got the idea to work on this after 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:07.320 experiencing his father fighting lung disease. And of course part 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.280 of the problem is, you know, when a patient's lungs 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:13.480 are failing, a hospital will usually try to use a 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.600 mechanical ventilator to help keep the patient alive and keep 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:21.200 their tissues oxygenated. But there are cases where this solution 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:25.360 either isn't available or isn't appropriate. One example they cite 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:27.959 is the horrible event that there was a there was 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:32.240 a mass shortage of mechanical ventilators during the early COVID 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:37.199 nineteen pandemic. So of course mechanical ventilators are a finite resource, 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.760 but also there are other complications. This is a point 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.240 made by Kelly in that commentary piece. Kelly writes, quote, 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:48.800 even if mechanical ventilation is available. In severe disease, gas 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:54.079 exchange may be impaired to the degree that oxygenation is inadequate. 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:56.600 So in some cases you may be able to actually 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:00.160 use a mechanical ventilator to pump into the lungs, but 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.600 you still will not be able to get enough oxygen in. 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.800 And so Kelly says quote, faced with this situation, extra 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:11.920 corporeal membrane oxygenation is a technology that can temporarily replace 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.560 the functions of the heart and lungs, providing forward flow 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:19.080 of blood and gas exchange using an external apparatus. And 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:20.800 if you've never seen this, this is like a type 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.320 of machine that essentially does the job of the heart 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:25.719 and lungs outside of the body. They hook up an 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.240 artery in a vein to this machine and it pumps 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.920 the blood through, oxygenates it, and then returns it to 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:34.400 the body. But Kelly goes on to say, quote yet, 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:40.079 extra corporeal membrane oxygenation has inherent risks, requires significant outlay 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:44.960 of human labor and financial resources, and therefore availability is limited. 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:50.680 So the question is what if the EVA the ventilation 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.640 through the anus approach could help increase the range of 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:58.120 options available when a patient has failing lungs. So the 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:00.920 Times article gets into the question of how did this 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:05.280 idea come about? Doctor Takeba had Apparently he had previously 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.640 experimented with using stem cells to try to grow new 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:13.640 auxiliary organs like tiny lungs, but branching out of this, 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.520 he instead got the idea of using body organs that 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:21.400 we already have organs other than the lungs to provide 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:25.000 oxygen to our blood. Now, the inspiration for this, I 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.960 thought was very interesting. It was a bit of inspiration 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:32.080 from the animal kingdom. Takeba cited the example of a 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:36.840 fish called a loach. So a loach is any fish 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.200 from a family of freshwater fishes also known as the 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:45.920 kobitidy or cobitidoids. They're often fairly elongated, and some species 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.040 kind of look a little bit like snakes or eels 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:52.800 because they're kind of long, but they're fish. Like most fish, 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.440 Loaches primarily breathe with their gills, so they use the 0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:00.760 gills these, you know, these sort of thin booklike surfaces, 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:04.880 to extract dissolved oxygen from the water around them. But 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:08.760 they have a backup method for getting extra oxygen if 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:12.959 they need it. Loaches can stick their heads up out 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.880 of the water and take a bite out of the atmosphere. 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.720 So they don't have lungs. They can't normally breathe through 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:23.480 their mouths like we can. Instead, a loach uses its 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.800 mouth to take in and swallow a mass of air. 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:31.000 Swallow the air into its digestive system, and that bubble 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:34.240 of air goes down into the digestive tract and then 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:38.679 the walls of the fishes intestines absorb extra oxygen from 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:40.280 the air that the fish eat. 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:42.960 Oh wow, they really are eating air. 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.079 Yeah. I loved this fact and I didn't know about 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.320 this before. So the article sites of biologists talking about 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:54.200 these fish. The biologist is Jonathan Mark Wilson, who is 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:59.120 on faculty at Wilfrid Laurier University in Waterloo, Canada, and 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:04.200 Wilson says like, sometimes a loach will be trapped in 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.920 some kind of situation where the oxygen in the water 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:11.560 around it is not sufficient the oxygen that it will 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:13.960 normally get from its gills. So one example of this 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.680 would be if it is stuck in a pond or 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.680 even a puddle with low amounts of oxygen due to overcrowding. 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:22.840 There might be a lot of animals or other fish 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.880 in the water, and they're extracting a lot of the oxygen, 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.640 so it can't get enough with its gills. It has 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:32.320 this air eating method to get extra oxygen from the environment. 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:36.840 So that's a fish obviously fairly different biology than mammals 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.000 like us. But Ta Keba and colleagues wondered could a 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:45.520 mammals intestines do the same thing get oxygen from air 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:50.760 or even pure oxygen gas inserted into the digestive system. 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:56.640 So initial experiments showed that when mice were deprived of oxygen, 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:00.360 if you stuck an oxygen pump up the anus, it 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:05.120 did actually work. But in order for it to work well, 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:08.160 in order for it to work optimally, the researchers had 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.600 to sort of inflict little abrasions on the mucous membrane 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:15.440 of the intestinal wall, so when the wall was thinned, 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:20.400 the oxygen was absorbed better. Obviously, that's not ideal. Having 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.600 to scrape the inside of your colon or your intestines 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:27.360 to help you absorb anally supplied air is not the best. 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:30.640 So they came up with the second idea. Instead of 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.120 supplying O two in its gas form, what about a 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.000 liquid enema containing oxygen. 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:41.080 Oh my goodness, you're for science fiction fans out there. 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.000 This would of course be the same technology that the 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:46.920 deep divers are supposed to be using in James Cameron's 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:47.520 The Abyss. 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:49.200 Oh yes, yeah. 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:50.560 Except that this would be in the other end of 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.120 the suit. Obviously, that's right. 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.600 So the researchers here experimented with I don't know if 0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:59.840 they name the chemical in the ABYSS, I don't recall, 0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:02.800 but what they're working with here is a type of 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:06.800 perfluorochemical which exists in liquid form but is able to 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:12.320 absorb and carry gases, especially oxygen. Specifically, the chemical that 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:16.600 they used in this experiment was called perfluorodecyln or PFD, 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.320 which Kelly explains in his commentary. He says, it's a 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:24.440 it's a hydrocarbon where you strip the hydrogen atoms out, 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:28.600 you swap them with fluorine, which allows this fluid to 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.360 buckle in a bunch of oxygen, carry a lot of 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:37.280 oxygen along with it, and it is such a remarkable 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:41.320 oxygen delivery device. Here's here's more. The ABYSS style image 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.760 that experiments in the nineteen sixties showed that you could 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:49.720 take unconscious anesthetized mice and you could dunk them under 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:52.600 I was going to say underwater. It's not water under. 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:56.160 Submerge them in this fluid for hours and they would 0:16:56.200 --> 0:17:00.280 breathe the liquid and they would survive. Apparently. It has 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:04.760 also been explored in various experiments as a potential platform 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.720 for artificial blood. We've talked about ideas about artificial blood 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.200 and episodes in the past. It is a long sought 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:17.000 type of prosthesis or medical device that has always been 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:21.760 somewhat elusive, and I think it for various reasons. There 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:25.360 were questions about whether it should continue to be pursued 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.639 as an artificial blood platform, but at least the idea 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:32.399 was there, and so the idea in this experiment was 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:37.240 try this stuff per fluorodecylin jacked full of oxygen, put 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:39.879 it up the anis into the colon to get extra 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:44.080 oxygen into the blood. And the experiment found, yes, it 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:48.159 did work. It worked with both mice and pigs that 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.440 were in a hypoxic state, meaning they were deprived of oxygen. 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:56.520 They were supplied with oxygen packed per flora chemicals in 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:00.880 this solution via the anis, and it signified bagantly improved 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:05.000 their levels of blood oxygen. There were also behavioral markers, 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.440 like the mice that had been inactive due to low 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:11.960 oxygen got up and started walking around again. However, there 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:16.560 are some important limitations to consider. One is time. So 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:21.119 Kelly in his commentary piece writes, quote, promising results are 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.439 also reported using a porcine model, meaning a pig model, 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:29.760 in which mean improvement in oxygenation after EVA innima persists 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:33.840 for eighteen point seven minutes. Thus, in current form, this 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.960 therapy requires repeated cycling of fluid, and the potential of 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:43.439 EVA is in short term treatment of hypoxia, so that 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.480 means it only lasts a short while, and in order 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.840 to keep getting continued effects and keep oxygenating the body 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.000 and the blood via the anus, you would have to 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:57.280 keep cycling in new fluid. Another thing to consider is 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:02.400 that breathing fulfills two extramely important jobs at the same time. 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.840 It brings in oxygen that your cells need, and it 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:09.480 also purges carbon dioxide that your cells have to get 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:13.480 rid of. And these early results showed more promise with 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:16.720 providing oxygen than with purging CO two. You have to 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:20.639 do both, and so Kelly writes, quote, EVA appears to 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:24.360 be more efficient at oxygen delivery than carbon dioxide removal, 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:29.000 and one can quibble that ventilation is an overstatement. Yet 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:33.280 the liquid used in EVA has capacity to carry carbon dioxide, 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:37.600 and the experiments presented test its effectiveness in hypoxia rather 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:42.240 than hypercarbiam models. So that's the thing. I guess left 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.520 yet to explore whether it could be effective at removing 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:50.240 carbon dioxide as well. Okay, there are other important complications 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.080 to consider, and Kelly mentions these. I didn't initially think 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.760 of them, but this is a good kind of practice 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:00.359 for thinking about medical problems. You solve one problem, maybe 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:05.040 create another. So the surface epithelium of the colon is 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:09.479 adapted to have low exposure to oxygen. That's just its 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:12.800 natural state. There's not usually a lot of oxygen getting 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:16.480 in there, and it's unclear if there would be any 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:23.000 negative consequences from exposing it to lots of unexpected oxygen. Also, 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:27.000 the gut is not just an organ, it is a world. 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:31.160 It's an inhabited world, and the inhabitants of that world 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:35.960 have great influence over us over our health. So would 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:41.640 anything happen to the microbial populations of the distal gut 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.960 if they were suddenly exposed to aerobic conditions instead of 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:48.199 their natural and aerobic conditions. 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.199 That's interesting. I mean, just spitballing here, but I mean 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:54.639 you could potentially have a situation where following this kind 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:57.240 of treatment, you would have to have something like fecal 0:20:57.280 --> 0:21:01.520 transplant in order to repopulate the gut it. Indeed, if 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:06.000 this procedure did theoretically like mess with the microbiome to 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:07.240 some degree. 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:10.880 Right, Yeah, so that's a good thing to raise. Kelly says. 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:16.240 The authors did investigate this somewhat. They looked at they 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:20.040 tried to see if there were markers of toxic blooms 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:25.399 of gut microbiota by looking for a bacterial indotoxin called 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:30.840 a lipopolysaccharide in the blood of these animals, and they 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:33.840 did not observe any increases at least in these cases. 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:38.080 But Kelly writes, quote, it must be remembered, however, that 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:40.919 the models of acute hypoxia in the study do not 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:46.680 fully reflect the complex multisystem insults experienced by critically ill 0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:52.960 patients that add infection, inflammation, and hypoperfusion. So it's saying, 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:55.040 you know, if we ever actually were to move to 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:58.400 human trials here. Often a person who's in a state 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:01.840 where they need supplemental oxiden might have a lot of 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:04.240 different things going wrong in their body all at the 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:08.399 same time that could make them especially vulnerable to maybe 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:13.360 changes in oxygenation of gut tissues that are not normally oxygenated, 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:17.520 or changing the microbial environment and possibly causing a flare 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:20.520 up of some kind of you know, toxic bacteria you 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:21.040 don't want. 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:22.720 That's a great point as well. 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:25.000 Yeah, so in the end they're sort of saying about 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:29.040 these these counter considerations like this, you know, this is 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:31.600 not what the colon was meant to do. The distal 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:35.000 gut is not It can apparently breathe a little bit, 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:37.520 you can get some oxygen in there, that'll help out, 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:40.960 but that's not what it was you know, designed by 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:43.040 evolution to do. And so we don't really know what 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:46.640 the consequences would be of repurposing it in this way, 0:22:46.720 --> 0:22:48.600 especially for prolonged periods. 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:52.840 Now, this should not hold James Cameron back though. If 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:55.359 there's a sci fi application here, explore it. I mean, 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:57.520 that is what science fiction is for, that's. 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:01.000 Right, So, yes, I fully support all kinds of storytelling 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:04.439 with sci fi butt breathing astronauts. I don't know how 0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:07.960 that would it would ultimately cause them to like evolve 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:11.040 in different directions where they like have different ways of language, 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:13.320 where they maybe end up speaking through their butts. I 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:17.959 don't know. But anyway, despite all these counter considerations, this 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:22.320 is a very fascinating and exciting early result. And you know, 0:23:22.400 --> 0:23:25.440 some of the scientists quoted they said, like, obviously, we're 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:27.399 not at the human trial stage yet, we don't know 0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:30.160 that this would be good for humans. But if it 0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:33.879 did turn out to be a real way of additionally 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:36.720 supplementing oxygen, this could be a life saving thing in 0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:40.680 many conditions. So we're not at the human trials yet, 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:43.920 but the fact that it worked in mammals like mice 0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:46.480 and pigs is very promising and it may one day 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:49.160 become a way of getting extra oxygen to people who 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:49.879 badly need it. 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:52.840 Excellent. Yeah, I mean again, coming back to your point 0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:55.280 about fecal transplants, they could very well be a situation 0:23:55.359 --> 0:23:58.720 where people giggle today, but they giggle less and less 0:23:58.760 --> 0:24:00.840 as the years go by. When if we realize that 0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:03.800 this is an actual treatment that can be utilized to 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:04.399 save lives. 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:07.600 That's right, Especially I see quoted in the media. Kelly 0:24:07.720 --> 0:24:10.360 was talking about this point that like, don't let the 0:24:10.400 --> 0:24:14.280 weirdness of this make you dismiss the idea, he told 0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:17.120