WEBVTT - Rainn Wilson 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:03.920 We're back. We're together. Look at this. 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:05.760 I love it. 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:10.560 Thanks for coming out from San Diego. Hey, it's really 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:13.560 good to be in person. I'm excited about that to 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:14.080 see you. 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:19.920 Come on, come on, are we rolling? Both of them? 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:24.320 And this too is rolling? Everything's rolling. Oh my god, 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:25.239 it's happening. 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:45.000 It's totally happening. Hi everybody, and welcome back to another 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:49.800 episode of Off the Beat. As always, this is your 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:56.440 host Brian Baumgartner today. Yeah, very special, live in person. 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:00.320 The Man, the myth, the legend. He's a New York 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.080 Times best selling author. He is the host of his 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.160 new show, Geography of Bliss, and I'm sure you have 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:11.800 all of his other credits memorized. That's right. Rain Wilson 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.559 aka Dwight Shrut is joining me today. 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:21.360 Hey, Brian, Off the Beat, get it Off the Beat. 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:26.880 Today's episode is Off the Beat. 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:35.720 Farm Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and Squeakna 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.760 Bubble and Squeak. I could get every mole left over 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:43.399 from the nine before. 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:56.920 Hi Brian, Hi buddy, this is cool. 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:00.000 What what's happened? 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.400 Well? You know, I mean we hadn't seen each other 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:08.440 in so long and now twice in a few weeks. 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:13.000 It's crazy. I love it. Yeah, I need more. I 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.320 need to come to your farm for sure. I really 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:17.400 want to come to your farm. 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:19.480 You need to bring the kids out to my little. 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:23.080 Farm, to your farm. Yeah, it's like a petting zoo. 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.200 Bring the children out to the farm and there's a 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:29.400 it's like a little petting zoo, and there's fruits. 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.240 Do you let any children come to your petting zoo? 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:33.120 All the children? 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.639 You don't invite the children? Yes, I really. 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:39.880 I walk down the streets of Oxnard, California playing the 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:44.920 flute and the children follow, and there's magical animals and yeah. 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:49.280 You're the pied Piper of ox and ard of Oxnard, California. 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:51.960 Was that a dream early on to be the pied 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:53.639 piper of Oxnard, California? 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.359 That that was out of my wheelhouse? It was out 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.079 of my imaginary field of being. 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.120 Yeah, it was great to see you. 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:03.040 Nice to see you. 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:08.160 Yeah, like really, I started watching your show, which we're 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:12.400 going to talk about later. Obviously you are very this 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:15.680 is going to be a running theme of this conversation. Okay, 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:21.720 that you're very open. I have been very open about 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:27.680 your history, your personal history. Uh huh. You grew up 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:31.760 in Washington and like in almost the first line of 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:36.080 the show said you had an unhappy childhood. Yeah, yeah, 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.680 first off, why was it unhappy? 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:42.600 You're going right to it. 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:44.560 Yeah, I'm going right to it. No, I'm going right 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.760 to it because it's fascinating that you are so open 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.280 in all of your work. I mean, you're open as 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:51.520 an artist, as an actor. 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:54.920 I don't understand why more people aren't as open to me. 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:57.400 It makes total sense to be open. I guess maybe 0:03:57.400 --> 0:03:59.880 I've been in therapy for twenty years, so I'm just 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.600 really used to kind of excavating this stuff. And I've 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:07.960 done a lot of therapeutic work in lots of different ways. 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:12.200 So listen in a lot of senses. You know, my 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:18.000 childhood was normal and happy. You know, I wasn't starved, 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:22.760 but I was love starved. And I think it has 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:26.560 to do with, you know, my dad, God rest his soul. 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:28.680 He died a couple of years back. He was really 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:31.040 traumatized as a kid. I mean he had like a 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:36.560 like a Charles Dickens childhood. He was beaten, tortured, like 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.880 his dad would take off for weeks at a time, 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.200 leaving him to raise his younger sister when he was 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:46.360 like thirteen, and he had to like borrow food from neighbors. 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:49.920 I mean, it was really bad shit, and so that'll 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.840 mess with you, right, So he wasn't so good at 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:55.960 the whole intimacy thing. He was a very sweet man. 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:59.880 He was a soft natured man. He wasn't like hard 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:06.080 scrabble abusive, but he was very cut off. And when 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:08.080 my mom left him and me when I was about 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.160 a year and a half or two years old, I 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:12.400 didn't really see her again until I was about fifteen, 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:16.680 and then I was kind of raised by my step 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.960 mom and they just had a terrible marriage. And you know, 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:23.080 just to cut to the chase. When I was writing 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:25.920 my autobiography, The Bassoon King a couple of years back, 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:28.760 I asked him, I said, when did you know that 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:31.440 your marriage was bad and that you shouldn't have gotten married? 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:33.880 And they both said, like, oh, within about six months 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:37.560 of being married. And they stayed together for fourteen fifteen 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.680 more years. And then you know, I grew up a 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.000 member of the Bahai faith, which you know I've spoken 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:45.320 about a lot here and there, but one of the 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.560 things that has been most difficult for me to kind 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:51.080 of understand and rectify is that in the Bahih faith, 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.360 everything is about love. It's about peace, it's about unity, 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:59.040 it's about serving others and being open and serving humanity, 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:02.480 et cetera. And so we had a lot of talk 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.720 about love. We talked about love all the time, right, 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:08.720 but there was zero love in the room, right. It 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:13.200 was a really fractured So it's for a child, it's 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:16.240 incredibly gaslighting to kind of be like, we should all 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.000 love each other and serve each other and be kind 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.240 to one another. And then my parents weren't loving or 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.039 kind to each other. And I was kind of stuck 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:23.560 in the middle. 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.160 Were you Were you aware of that in the moment? 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:27.280 Like were you aware? 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.279 Okay, No, I was, And this is you know, and 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:35.680 this created in me a big a sense of anxiety, loneliness, alienation. 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:38.800 I didn't know what the hell was going on. It 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:42.280 didn't make any sense to me. Like I remember several 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.720 times my parents would be fighting and then we would 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:47.560 have a Bahai spiritual gathering at our house. So it 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:51.560 involved like saying prayers or singing or meditating or studying 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.400 you know, mystical works of various religious faiths or of 0:06:55.400 --> 0:07:00.520 the Bahaigh writings themselves and like my stepmom like breaking 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:03.120 dishes in the sink and there's guests over, and then 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:05.880 her stomping through our tiny little living room about the 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:09.120 size of this podcast, both because we didn't have any money, 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:11.800 and going to the door and like slamming the door, 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.440 and sometimes you'd even hear screams from the other and 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:20.480 then my dad going okay, well shall we say some prayers? 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:22.960 And you know, I'm nine years old, and I'm like, 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:28.040 this is I know this isn't right right, but everyone's 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.040 pretending it's normal. Maybe this is normal. Is this how 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:31.800 other people act? 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:32.400 I don't know. 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:37.360 So all of this is, you know, it's Christ for 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.080 the mill. And I've said it before and I'll say 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:43.640 it again. I don't think I play kind of weirdo 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:48.040 alienated characters as well. If I don't have that Petrie 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:52.320 dish of an experience growing up. It did give me 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.320 some mental health issues that I've kind of dealt with 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:59.440 through my adulthood. And that's been part of the journey too, 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.600 So you know, I see it all interwoven. I have 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:06.840 a psychological personal journey through therapy and recovery. I have 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:11.000 a journey a spiritual journey as a behigh and seeking 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:15.560 kind of spiritual meaning and purpose in my life. And 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:18.920 I'm an artist too, and I transform and I play characters, 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.320 and I draw on all of this complexity in history 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.480 and the playing of those characters, and all three of 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:28.160 those journeys are intricately intertwined. 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:30.080 Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you, like, 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.480 do you feel like your work as an artist, even young, 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.199 that you used that, even if you couldn't articulate that 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:40.760 things were maybe not quite right at home, as you said, 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.280 or that you weren't fully happy, do you feel like 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:48.640 you used the arts and creating characters and beginning your 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:53.520 sort of passionate journey along those lines you used that, 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:56.000 I think, so I think you use it. 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:58.200 You don't, you're not even aware you're using it right 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:00.160 when you're starting out in acting. 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:02.160 But I always played misfits better. 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:07.840 I always played odd balls better, people that didn't fit in, 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:13.920 people that were kind of tortured, And so I definitely 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:16.280 drew on that. When I was in acting school, I 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:19.920 swiftly realized, like, oh, I'm incapable of playing someone well 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:24.360 balanced and popular, and you know, but the more twisted 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:26.360 the character the better I would do. 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:26.880 Right. 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:32.120 So yeah, so you know, in a lot of ways, 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:32.680 I'm grateful. 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.719 I wouldn't have I wouldn't have played quite true had 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:39.880 I had a you know, normal balanced childhood. It's all, 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.240 it's all part of the beauty and complexity of being 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:42.960 a human being. 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:47.560 Yeah. I just had a conversation with Garrett Dilla Hunt. 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:52.240 Yes you're old Powell, Yeah, who described you as a 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:58.000 legend at you dub He was slightly younger, just behind you. 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:01.000 Legend yuh, but yes. 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:05.640 A legend kind of a legend in the theater department there. 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:09.520 I mean, did you were you having success? Did you 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:13.360 feel that in yourself when you were in college? 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:17.800 Not at all. So I started acting later in high 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.720 school when I went to this kind of very wealthy, 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:24.200 artsy high school called New Trier north of Chicago. And 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.720 I was really grateful because I had some amazing theater 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:29.640 teachers there. I got to be a part of some 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:35.040 incredible productions very early on, very young. And then I 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:37.160 went to Tufts University in Boston. I did a year. 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:39.800 I did a bunch of theater there and that was good, 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.200 and I did some plays and then my parents were 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.920 getting a divorce my dad and my stepmom and I, 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:46.840 you know, as messed up as their marriage was, I 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.120 was still very connected to them, right and I was 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:53.199 kind of having a breakdown as they were having a breakdown. 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:55.520 So I went back to Seattle. Then I ended up 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.400 at University of Washington, where I met my now wonderful wife, 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:03.960 Holiday Rhynhorn, and met Garrett, Dilla Hunt, Matt Ross, Lynn Shelton. 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.200 A lot of great artists were there at that time 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:11.920 and started doing plays, and I don't remember at all 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:14.520 being a legend Universon of Washington. I played, you know, 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.840 a couple of leads, but a couple of smaller parts 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:20.040 and some different plays, and I think Garrett was I 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:22.600 had been acting for a while and Garrett was literally 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:26.480 just starting. So I saw Garrett in his very first play, 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.600 and he was so talented, but he was so tense 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.080 I thought, I just thought, oh my god, he's going 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.880 to explode. The veins on his face are so tight, 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:38.920 you know. But he was just kind of ruggedly handsome, 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:44.480 other worldly, like kind of ethereal David Bowie cowboy from Yakima, 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:50.319 Washington and doing these experimental plays. But he was just terrific. 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:51.959 And then I went to n YU and then two 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.760 years later he went to the NYU Graduate Acting Program. 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.120 So we kind of followed each other and have both 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.560 had pretty nice careers. He's he's an outrageously talented actor. 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:05.120 I love his stuff. But I will say I just 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.800 wanted to tell this little story. So I had had 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:10.000 because your question was about the success that I had. 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:14.400 I had success in high school and in two colleges, 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.280 and I kind of thought, oh, maybe I'm really good 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.560 at this. Okay, I should go be a professional actor. 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:25.559 I should go audition. So I was in Seattle University 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:30.360 of Washington, and I like went down the university avenue 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.240 to the photography studio and I got I still have 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:37.200 some of these really cheesy headshots from nineteen eighty six, 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:41.160 and I'm like, you know, and and I typed up 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.559 a resume. I had my dad helped me type up 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.160 like the high school and college plays that I had done, 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:52.000 and I just started submitting myself for I looked in 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:55.760 the newspapers and you know, on the ads and stuff 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:57.760 like that, and I started submitting myself and I started 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:00.839 getting some auditions, and I auditioned around at a lot 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:05.240 of little, not community theaters, A semi professional and professional 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:10.800 theaters there, and after about four or five auditions, and 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:12.959 then I auditioned for the Orgon Shakespeare Festival and the 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:15.679 guy there was like, listen, you need to either come 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.200 to the organ Shakespeare Festival and like carry a spear 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.400 and understudy roles and do that for five or six years, 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:23.960 or you need to go to like New York and 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:28.000 get acting training. You should do one of those two things. 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:32.560 But it became really clear, like, oh shit, I am 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.400 the tiniest fish in a very big pond now, and 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:37.320 I'm really not good enough and I don't have the 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:41.400 skill set to be good enough to act professionally at 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.480 that point. And that was twenty nineteen or twenty at 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:49.160 that point, and I'm really grateful that I had the 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:51.839 wherewithal to kind of have that ability to kind of 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:53.960 see myself to kind of go like, oh, you're not 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.880 good enough yet, because some actors never have that right. 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.840 I kind of think that they're ready for Broadway and 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.360 there and there, they just they don't have it right. 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.200 So I was like, I need to train, And that's 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.160 when I went to NYU for actor training. 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:12.880 When did you decide, I mean, this is slightly different 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.120 a different question. When did you decide it's what you 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:18.000 wanted to do. Yeah. 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:21.760 So my best friend at the time, John Valades, and 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.120 we had grown up together since third grade and we 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.160 ended up going to NYU together. We went to University 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.760 of Washington together. We were like really good friends through 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:32.000 our youth. He was going to India for a year. 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:33.800 He decided to take a year off and just go 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:35.400 to India and he was going to do some service 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.320 projects and travel and he's like, come on, man, come 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:39.680 to India, let's do it. 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:42.080 And I was like, I don't know. 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:44.200 And I was doing these plays and I was really 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.840 thinking about acting and whether or not to make it 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:51.560 a career. My parents were supportive but wary. You know, 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:52.800 how am I going to pay the bills? 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:53.240 Sure? 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:59.880 And I had a spiritual, transformative experience that made me 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:05.000 decide to commit one hundred percent. And that was I 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:08.520 was visiting my birth mother, who I was just getting 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:10.800 to know at the time in Boston. I think it 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:16.600 was over Christmas break, sophomore year of college, and the 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:20.040 movie version of A chorus Line was playing in a 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.320 little theater in Boston and I just walked in by myself. 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:25.040 I don't know I was wondering in Boston. I saw 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.760 it and I just went in. I watched it by myself. Now, 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:32.040 this is a legendarily bad movie version of a musical. 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.920 It's really and I knew even when I was watching it. 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:39.400 I was like, oh, this is terrible, but it's all 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:41.800 about acting and actors and it's how much I love 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:46.240 the theater and I really need this job, please God, 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.640 who am I? Anyway? Am I my resume? You know 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:56.040 those kind of songs. And I was there and I 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.600 just started sobbing and just tears were pouring down my 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.600 face and I was like heaving, supplet. 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:04.320 That. 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.200 And then the theater was empty because the movie was terrible. 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:11.640 And I went outside and it was sunset because i'd 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:14.600 seen a matinee and it was a red sunset. Snow 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.160 was falling through kind of a red sunset, and I 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:20.880 had like tears on my face and I was like, 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:25.560 that's it. I'm going for this. I'm all in. 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:27.600 Wow, I'm all in. 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:30.840 I know this is going to be a ten year commitment, 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:33.160 but the only way to do it is to just 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:36.920 completely fully commit. I want to be an actor in 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:41.400 the theater. And that's when I auditioned for these UH 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.200 training programs and I was lucky enough to get into 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.200 nWay NYU. 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:51.520 For you, it was about theater. Yeah, and that's what 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.680 you wanted to do? Is that where? Because that was 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.240 for me, that's where I saw my life. That's what 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:59.160 I thought I was going to do forever and ever. Yeah. Amen? 0:16:59.360 --> 0:16:59.880 Yeah? 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:02.840 When did that start to change for you? Because your 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:07.119 career was successful, You're traveling around at major regional theaters 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:11.000 and working in New York. What for you made you 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.840 transition and decide to move to Los Angeles? And did 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:18.440 you view it as a career change? Because I did? 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.880 You did? I did? I didn't think about it until 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:29.399 I decided to fully change, which was say no to 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.080 any acting roles in the theater. I'm not doing that. 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:35.840 I'm going to move to Los Angeles and really recommit 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:39.760 myself to what I viewed as a career change. Was 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.320 it the same for you or no? It wasn't the 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.960 same for me. I mean I was so in love 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.679 with the theater and devoted to the theater, and I 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.200 had done you know, after three years of theater training 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.280 at NYU, I did nine or ten years of NonStop 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:59.040 theater in New York and regionals. I did a company 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.760 called the Acting Commpany, which was a tour bus and 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.400 truck touring company of Shakespeare. When I first got out 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:07.520 of college and I was on the road with Jeffrey Wright, 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.320 you know who's in West World and has been War 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.680 nominated and the French Dispatch Angels in America. 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:17.639 Yeah, he's an incredible actor. I was Demetrius, he was 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:22.000 Puck in The Midsummer Night's Dream. And we got back 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:24.639 at the end of a six month theater tour, just 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:28.359 exhausted but draggled. We go and pick up our mail 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.520 at the headquarters of the theater company and I opened 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.560 up my bank statement and I have like twenty three 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.440 hundred dollars in the bank after six months of work 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:38.920 on the road. 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:40.000 And I was like, oh fuck. 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:45.399 And then Jeffrey Wright's opening his mail and he's like, yeah, whoa. 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:48.680 I'm like, jeff, what's going on. He's like, check it out. 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.560 I got a residual check and he had this check 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.000 and it was for thirty five hundred dollars and he 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:57.119 had done two days on a Harrison Ford movie and 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:02.680 he got more money in rezials for those two days 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:06.040 that I had for six months of working and right 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.440 then and there is like in my head. I remember 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:10.840 it was like, Okay, this is. 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:14.120 I got it. This is ridiculous. 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:16.040 You know, if I am ever going to pay off, 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:18.640 forget buying a house, if I'm ever going to pay 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.560 off my student loans, I have to do TV and film. 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:24.880 See actors in New York. And I do think there's 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:27.520 a you know, a handful of David Costable's when we 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.399 both know that do it all. And I love that 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:32.679 about New York and actors in London that they can 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:34.320 do a play here and a TV show here, and 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:36.480 a movie here and a commercial. 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.520 Here and you get to do it all. You know, 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:40.399 LA doesn't really work like that. 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.120 There's a very few theaters, they're far away, they don't 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.480 pay very well, etc. And it's hard to do that 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.280 anywhere else. A little bit in Chicago, maybe DC, a 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.640 couple places like that, but it's very hard to kind 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.959 of balance all of it. But I really was like, 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:59.080 I want to do enough television and films so that 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:00.960 I can come back to New York and get cast 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:04.360 in leeds in plays, right, because that's what was happening 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:08.560 all the time. You'd have like James Vanderbeek just did 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.959 Dawson's Creek and he got offered Hamlet, you know, because 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:13.719 he's been on Dawson's. 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:16.480 Creek, you know. And that's the reality of the theater. 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.560 They got to sell tickets, right, So I was like, 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:21.560 I want a TV show so I can come back 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:24.040 and play Hamlet in New York. It hasn't really worked 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:25.800 out that way. I've been here in LA for over 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:27.120 twenty some years now. 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:30.320 But now my son is going off to college. 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:31.480 Can you believe it? 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:31.959 Now? 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:36.080 Walter was born. Walter was born during the Hot Girl, 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:39.000 Perse Girl episode of season one. That's right in a 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:40.240 really traumatic berth. 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:44.680 Yes, you ran from set to go to the hospital 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:47.719 because there was a medical issue. Yes, I know. 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.879 And now he's going off to college, so I'm going 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:52.440 to have more time to do theater. 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:58.439 He's the physical embodiment of how long we all were together. 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.680 Just as he grow Oh, it was like, oh wow, 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:04.640 we've been together a long time. And now he's going 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:07.520 off to college, which is nuts. 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:11.640 Nuts yeah, just not nuts. Yeah. But once he's gone, 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:13.640 he's our only kid, and then I've got a little 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:16.360 more freedom, so I can go do theater for very 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:19.480 little money, for six months here or five months there. 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.080 So I'm very excited about about doing that because for me, 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:25.480 you know, I always have a little bit of the mystical, 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:29.960 spiritual nature in me, and for me, acting is about 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:34.399 there is a magic about transforming into characters. Yes, and 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:38.200 people always are like you know, Dwight gets so much 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.040 attention and focus about who I am as an actor 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:44.040 and as a person, and that's great. I'm so grateful. 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:47.679 Those nine years were magical, amazing, what a great character. 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:49.720 The writing, the cast. 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:53.920 The thought, the you know, the producers, everything like that, 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:58.800 the fans, the support, it's it's it's been incredible. But 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:02.480 people don't realize this, and a lot of people aren't 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:06.640 in the acting world. Like I played dozens of characters 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:11.280 before I played Dwight, and since I've finished Dwight, I've 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:15.080 played another couple dozen characters. So for me, it's about 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:20.119 transforming into characters and telling stories. I played Hamlet in school. 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:22.720