WEBVTT - House Has Strong Argument for Impeachment: Prof. Briffault 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:04.120 Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, along 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:06.240 with my co host of Bonnie Quinn. Every business day 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:10.360 we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:13.560 along with essential market moving news. Kind the Bloomberg Markets 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:17.000 Podcast on Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.560 and on Bloomberg dot com. Let's get straight to our 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:24.439 next guest. Richard Bufo, is professor of litigation at Columbia 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:28.280 Law School. We have a lot to speak to you about, Professor, 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:30.720 not least the fact that the House has just introduced 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:34.960 an article of impeachment against the president, the second impeachment 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:38.600 for the first time ever of a president potentially. But 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:43.240 that said, what is your base case scenario for how 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.600 rebuke of President Trump proceeds? Well? At this point, it 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:50.000 looks like the House is planning to go ahead with 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:53.520 an impeachment proceeding unless, which I guess beginning to see 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:58.520 monlikely Vice President pens and the Cabinet moved to remove 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:01.160 the president under the amendment. So it does seem as 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:05.160 though the House is quite serious about beginning impeachment proceedings, 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:11.880 possibly as early as tomorrow or Wednesday. So Professor, Let's 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:15.720 assume that the House does move forward. How do you 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:19.560 think the timing will play out in terms of the Senate. Well, 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:21.520 that's a good question, and I think right now they're 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:24.760 making some Uh there's the initial comments. Are they want 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:26.800 to get the House wants to take care of the impeachment. 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:31.319 Remember the impeachments the equival of an indictment, you could, well, 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:33.440 the impeachment means is the House has called for a 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:37.800 trial in the Senate. Um. The actual any um conviction 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:41.120 would require action by the Senate, as we saw last year, 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:43.960 and like the impeachment that grew out of the Ukraine 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:48.080 phone call um, so the House could could do this 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.240 rather quickly. What about the Senate, that's a good question, 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:53.440 sent I think is out of session right now. Uh. 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:55.960 Leuda McConnell is talking about not bringing them back until 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:02.600 nineteen UM. The House um majority whip UH Congressman Clyburne 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:06.240 is talking about even not even sending over the impeachment 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:10.080 decision the impeachment resolution to the Senate until some time 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:12.840 after the start of the Biden administration. So it's not 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:15.840 to get him away with the fur The opening days 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:18.040 and weeks of the new administration, So it's a little 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:22.160 hard to tell when it does seem though it's quite 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:24.639 possible that an impeachment could be voted soon, but it's 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:26.920 hard to tell at what point it will move from 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.480 the House to the Senate exactly. This talk of you know, 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.400 a hundred days, even allowing Biden half his hundred days. 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:34.959 What about the idea that it's a sole article of 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:40.680 impeachment it is regarding inciting the insurrection at the capital 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:44.400 on January six, in your professional and legal opinion, was 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:46.919 that the right charge and it is the president guilty 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:50.000 of it? Well, I noticed they actually combine that with 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.320 the president's phone call to Rappensburg in the Secretary of 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:57.440 State of Georgia pressuring him to find new votes in 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:00.120 an effective change the outcome of the election. So it 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.160 is primarily, of course about the uh the attack on 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:06.119 the Capitol, but I think there are other other statements 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:10.160 in it that he followed prior to subvert and obstruct 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:12.720 the certification of the electors. I think they weave it 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.680 together in that sense, is that the president, both by 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:18.240 his phone call to the Secretary State of Georgia and 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:21.600 by his inciting speech at the Ellipse was trying to 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.120 block Congress from doing its constitutional duty. I think it's 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:27.160 a good argument. I mean, I think obviously you need 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:29.600 to figure out maybe to part the exact language of 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:33.160 his speech and everything. But the more of this looks 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.680 like this was a clear cut effort by the part 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:39.200 of many members of that mob to literally block the 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.560 certification of the vote. That is an aspect of an attacking, 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.640 attacking the operation of the government, which fits within the 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:50.280 model of physition and insurrection. Professor talked to us about 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:54.880 the amendment, uh, in what's kind of the calculus behind 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:58.760 it doesn't have to be initiated by the vice president? Yes, 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:00.960 I think it does. UM. I mean I think that 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:03.600 UM the twenty and even really emerged in the nineteen 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:08.160 sixties as a way of dealing with presidential disability. Disability 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:10.920 short of outright death, president might have a stroke or 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.480 heart attack for some other reason to be incapable of 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:15.800 fulfilling the duties of his office. And it comes up 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:19.159 with the process where the vice president, with the concurrence 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:23.040 of the cabinet, can take over, notifies the Congress. UM 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.560 the president is potentially could challenge it. Uh, And there's 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:29.919 a process for back and forth for congressional resolution, but 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:33.640 the first step does require action by the Vice president. 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:37.040 And um, I mean candidly, it really wasn't meant for 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:38.920 this kind of situation, But of course I'm not sure 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:43.080 anything really meant for this kind of situation. Yeah, I mean, 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:48.279 Nancy Plosi clearly has several plans at our fingertips. And 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:50.960 there's also a plan D that's getting talked about. The 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:54.960 fourteen Amendment Section three. This may apply to the president 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:59.000 and or also to those who wanted to, you know, 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.760 not recognize the certification. What do you imagine as a 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:06.560 path forward with that? Will it get used? So? Fourteen 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:08.640 and fourteen member Section three is a provision that was 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:11.480 added after the Civil War as a way basically of 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:16.200 saying that members of people who have officers of the Confederacy, 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:18.800 who had been in part of the US government, people 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:20.719 who had taken an oath of allegiance in the United 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:23.600 States before the Civil War and then in effect broke 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.680 that oath and joined up with the Confederacy, as as 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:30.080 government leaders are as top generals there would be denied, 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.080 it would be thereafter denied any ability to hold the 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.719 US government office. Again, that's the that's the background, and 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:38.360 again it uses that, but it uses the language of 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:42.719 participation in insurrection. And so the idea there would be again, 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:45.360 if you could show that somebody participated in somebody who 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.560 had sworn an oath, an oath of office like the 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:51.599 president or a member of Congress, or particiating an insurrection, 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:54.080 that would be a basis for denying them the right 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:58.239 to hold uh public office in the United States. Um, 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:00.520 it's not clearly self executing some it would have to 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:04.279 determine that that's what they did, so uh, and of 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.479 course he would have to determine that what they did 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:11.159 constituted insurrection. UM. The President's case, there's a good argument 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:14.880 not all of the members of Congress who you know, 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:18.839 voted to oppose UM the electoral certification would fall into 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:21.280 that category. I think people are thinking about it mostly 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:25.480 in terms of Senator Hawley, maybe Senator Cruise, particularly people 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.880 who gave more inflammation, made inflammatory statements, I think, particularly 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:32.960 Senator Hawley, and maybe from the members of the House. So, Professor, 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:36.080 if the House is able to deliver the articles of 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:40.640 impeachment to the Senate perhaps sometime this week, what is 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.800 incumbent upon the Senate to do in terms of timeliness 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.720 in terms of acting. They are supposed to take it 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:48.800 up right away. I mean, that is the procedure that's 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:50.719 been set up. It's supposed to become a first order 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:52.719 of business, and they are supposed to take it up 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:54.680 right away. So I think the House is I mean, 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.000 I think in some ways, this this impeachment thing has 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.720 really three things driving in. One is just the sense 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:04.159 that something has to be done, that this was maybe 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:06.719 the most outrageous thing in American president has ever done, 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.120 so something has to be done. Second is to get 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.880 him out right away. He's still there at this point. 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.320 People accounting the hours, it's ten more days. He's in 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:18.560 charge of the unforces, is in charge of the nuclear codes, 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:20.880 and there's a I think a concerned that maybe he 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:24.800 will do something improper again. And then third is to 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.040 in effect block him from being able to run again. Uh. 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:30.200 And that's one of the things that the impeachment itself 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:34.800 doesn't automatically disqualify for future holding office, but it's something 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.080 that the Senate has the power to do if it 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.520 should convict, is to disqualify. And at this point, I'm 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:42.480 not sure which all three of these things may be 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:46.760 at play. The longer they delay any action, the more 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.480 it's really about the first and the third. Richard Brice brief. 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:52.440 Thank you so much for joining us with a brief. 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:56.880 Joseph P. Chamberlain, Professor of Legislation at Columbia Law School, 0:07:56.920 --> 0:08:01.400 helping us break down UH the impeachment process, which looks 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.400 like it's about to begin as the House UH introduced 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:09.920 its articles Impeachment. Well, of course, it is a great 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:13.080 pleasure to speak to our next guest. Susan DeVore is 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:17.080 chief executive officer of the Premiere, which is the health 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:19.920 services company that's listed on the NASDACK under p I 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:23.360 n C, and she joins us from Charlotte, North Carolina. Susan, 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.320 thanks for joining. Scott Stringer, the New York City Controller, 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.000 coming out today and explaining that, you know, the forms 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.960 online and the process for getting put in line for 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.079 vaccination is an absolute mess. Talk to us about how 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:40.520 better the vaccine can be ruled out. Thank you so 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:42.640 much for having me. While the truth is we've got 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.640 to get from two fifty thousand vaccinations a day to 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.680 two million a day, and so this is you know, 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:53.719 the biggest supply chain challenge probably UH in history for healthcare. 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:58.079 There are several systemic issues. First, we've got a hesitancy problem. 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.720 We've got people who are not willing to take the vaccine. 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:02.800 We've got to do a lot more education. We've got 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:06.079 to get people willing to take it. Secondly, our health 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:10.560 care systems, the premier hospitals would say staffing is one 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:13.679 of the very largest challenges they have. You know, their 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:17.000 nurses are taking care of all the COVID patients and 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.440 now they're also doubling up on providing vaccination, so we 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:25.000 need help with staffing. The distribution challenges, you know, are 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.840 talked about a lot. There are sixty four different state 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.720 and territorial plans, and so the lack of centralization and 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:36.440 even the lack of standard processes across states huge issue. 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:40.600 And then there are supply shortages and all kinds of 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:44.320 communication gaps. So we're early in the process, but but 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:46.960 there are lots of improvements that need to be made. 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.160 So so it's one of the questions is you know, 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:52.240 are one of the areas of frustration I guess for 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:54.559 some people is yes, we we are in the early 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:56.640 stage of this process, and there will be bumps in 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.520 the roads, certainly, But when you get uh. You know, 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:05.680 let's say a ten thousand doses delivered to a vaccination point, 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:09.160 yet only two or three or four thousand have actually 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.280 put in people's arms. The question then becomes, what are 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:15.440 we waiting for if you don't if someone doesn't want 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:17.400 to take a go to the next person. So I 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.360 guess there's a question of sticking with the Phase one 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:25.199 ABC protocols versus just getting as many shots in as 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.240 many arms as quickly as possible. How do you think 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.319 that's going to play out? You know, there's a lot 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.240 of inconsistency state to state. So part of the problem 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:35.920 is hospitals, premier hospitals don't even know if they're going 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.240 to get it, how much they're going to get, when 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.160 they're going to get it. They're worrying about having enough 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:44.160 for the second dose. And so I think people are 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:48.160 being cautious in terms of going too fast down the 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:52.360 prioritization list because the worst that they think could happen 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.120 would be to give them one dose and you don't 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.120 have that second dose. Having said that, I think we 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:02.040 are being overly cautious as a country, and we ought 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.600 to be using technology to identify all the people out 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.079 there who want to get a vaccine, uh and are 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.599 willing to get a vaccine. And then we ought to 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:15.360 set up more um sites for vaccination National Guard in 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:20.520 some places, maybe the retail CBS, Walgreens boxes, so that 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.200 we actually have a way to accelerate this. You know, 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.280 with a normal flu it takes three months to get 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:29.760 people vaccinated, and this is much more urgent, and we 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:33.199 have to change our processes in order to get people vaccinating. 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.720 How does Premiere work with the various states. It seems 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:41.359 like because it's a state by state issue, it's obviously 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:45.760 slightly different for every state. And you know, a company 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.840 like you or is is it difficult to to manage 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:54.920 all that? So Premier has hospitals and hundreds of thousands 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.120 of providers across the country. We work through the inside, 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.199 We work through the healthcare system them and all of 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:04.920 the things that they're trying to respond to. At state level, 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:07.840 we have a big supply chain organization. And one of 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:11.200 the things folks don't talk a lot about is, you know, 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:14.640 these these vials are overfilled, so you can get six 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:18.400 doses instead of five, while the kit only includes five needles, 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:20.839 So you've gotta go get needles and surringes, which are 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:25.640 on shortage. The kids did not include any gloves um 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:29.240 and most clinicians want to wear gloves when they're vaccinating folks, 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.440 and so we've got a shortage of gloves. So what 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:35.280 Premier is trying to do is make sure we've got syringes, 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:37.760 make sure we've got needles, make sure we've got gloves, 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:41.880 make sure we're helping health care systems share their best 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.600 practices and compare notes about how they're dealing with the 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:50.400 various state programs and those, you know, states that are 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:54.240 doing a better job of accelerating the vaccination are sharing 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:57.360 how they're going about that with other other states. So 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.560 Premier is kind of a critical piece right in the 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:03.640 middle of all of the activity at the various state levels. 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:08.280 Susan should there be federal guidance, federal coordination of a 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:13.800 vaccination into so how you know, we believe a premiere 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:17.400 There should be federal guidance. There should be a standard 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:22.360 reporting process, maybe there could even be a universal scheduling process. 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:25.520 You know, the CDC today is reporting the doses, but 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:27.880 you don't know how many of those are first doses 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:31.040 or second doses. And it's not a problem yet because 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.080 not enough time has passed, but it will be a 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:37.000 problem in the future. So we need federal guidelines, We 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:40.640 need federal standards of reporting, We need federal you know, 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:44.720 technology support. We can use federal and state resources like 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:48.080 National Guard and others to accelerate this process. So yeah, 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.640 we believe you need a lot more federal guidance and 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:58.760 then you need state level execution of the broader vaccination plan. Susan, 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:00.680 thank you so much for joining us once again, we 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:05.320 would appreciate your perspective. Susan DeVore, chief executive officer of 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:10.400 healthcare services company Premier based in Charlotte, North Carolina. Just 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:15.080 getting an update on the logistics of getting these vaccines 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:18.280 out there, into the marketplace and into patients as quickly, 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.920 UH and asficially and as safely as possible. That's been 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:27.320 a challenged uh so far, but hopefully things will improve well. 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:31.960 One of the many fallouts to come from the um 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:35.400 what happened at the Capitol last week has been the 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.680 role of social media platforms. What role did they play, 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.120 uh and what roles should they played going forward. We 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:46.360 saw many of these social media platforms drop President Trump's account, band, 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:51.200 President Trump's account that's razing some question questions about free 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:54.720 speech versus accountability. To dig into that, we welcome Mark Douglas. 0:14:54.720 --> 0:15:00.280 He's a CEO of marketing firm Steelhouse based in Los Angeles. Uh. Mark, 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.440 thanks so much for joining us here. So we had Twitter, 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:07.120 we've had Facebook banned the account of President Trump. How 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:11.320 do you think those social media platforms and Amazon as 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:13.640 related to Parlor? How do you think they came to 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:19.680 those decisions? Okay, well, obviously I think, um, what happened 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:22.520 last week at the Capitol plus four years of history, 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:26.920 you know, kind of um, the cumulative effected at um 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:30.120 led to that decision. I think that the Twitter and 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:36.000 Facebook banning his accounts is was somewhat expected. What's unexpected 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:40.920 I think is um Apple and Aws and the actions 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.360 you know they've taken that go beyond Trump. And so 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.240 you know, there's just a climate right now of of 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:49.800 making these kinds of decisions. And I don't I think 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:52.640 there's still a lot more to come in terms of 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.440 where we settle in in terms of what's allowed and 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:59.080 what's not allowed. Yeah, that was really fascinating. Parlor is 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:01.480 funded by, among others, Rebecca Mercer, and it builds itself 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.680 as a platform really for all that protects the First 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:10.200 Amendment rights of Americans. But honestly, it did seem like 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.280 perhaps some of what happened on Wednesday, if not organized 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.080 on Parlor, was at least chatted about on Parlor. And 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.720 you know, it didn't hurt that people were sort of 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:24.520 suggesting things to each other. And then Apple came out 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:26.120 and said it was going to take it off its 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:29.920 app store, and Amazon Web Services said it wouldn't host 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:33.920 it anymore. What is the future for parlor? Who CEO 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:38.680 insists that nothing illegal is not dealt with, that they 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:43.640 take down illegal things and anything else is completely legal. Yeah, 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.440 So I think there's two issues there. One is Parlor. 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:51.760 It's although the lot of what people do as right 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:56.240 wing discussion is occurring on Parlor. Parler themselves just view 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.640 themselves as champions of free speech, that's what they say, 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:03.320 and don't think free speech is a Republican right wing issue. 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.479 So I'm not sure there's as much support for, you know, 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.280 kind of taking apps down and out of the App store. 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:14.360 I think a lot of companies, ironically, including Facebook, think 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.439 that Apple has a heavy hand when it comes to 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:21.119 the app store, and and you know, Facebook and December 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:23.520 did full page ads in the Wall Street Journal, in 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:28.040 New York Times and other publications essentially railing against Apple's 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:32.320 decisions that it relates to to the the app store, 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.040 and there are other companies that are suing Apples. So 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:37.879 now Parlor, for a different reason, is now in that 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:41.920 bucket ironically aligned somewhat with Facebook and that Apple is 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:45.159 exerting too much control. And so I think, you know, 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.000 that's the first party issue. The second part is coming 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.480 out of the app store. I think Parlor will relaunch 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.080 as a mobile app and um and and I think 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.760 can do so relatively quickly. And so again that's the way, 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:00.760 you know, they just used the opening in net um 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.720 to put apps out there or to put websites out there, 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.440 rabbit and relying solely on Apple, who who's been somewhat 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:12.240 quite frankly hypocritical on the topic. So Mark, you expect this, 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:15.960 this discussion again, this whole First Amendment issue, accountability, free 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:22.560 speech too. I guess, you know, retrain the lens of Washington, 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:26.600 d C. Congress regulators on the Internet as it relates 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:30.960 to kind of these free speech issues. Um, I think 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:34.320 obviously it's a hot topic, but I think actually the 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:38.959 users of these platforms um are ultimately going to somewhat 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:42.399 retrain the lens. So keep in mind only ten percent 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:46.680 of Facebook's users in the United States, but of their 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:50.160 revenue is in the United States. So if you have 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:54.040 you know, a lot of US users of Facebook and Twitter, 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:56.760 because they're similar type numbers, but Twitter, if you have 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:01.000 a lot of users for um of Facebook and Twitter, 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:05.240 essentially you know, feel that these platforms are being unfairs 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:09.560 in particular around free speech. UM it doesn't. It takes 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:12.040 a lot of people, but as a percentage of the 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:14.960 total number of Facebook users, it doesn't take a lot 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:17.520 to have a very big effect on their revenue, which 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:21.399 is going to have a huge effect on advertising and 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:23.720 have a huge effect that they go on Wall Street, 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:26.280 which you already thing Wall Street somewhat respond to. I 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:30.280 think some of the drop in Twitter and and UM 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.640 today is not just about Trump. It's about the savvy 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:38.520 investors realizing that you that Twitter cannot afford to lose 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.720 you know, a third or quarter you know up there 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.359 their US user base, that that that would have a 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:48.119 devastating impact on their financials because they're so dependent on 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:52.280 the United States for for revenue. So fascinating to see 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:54.560 what happens next. And you have to wonder if these 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:57.720 companies aren't concerned about legal liability as well, if it 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.280 can be proven that there was organization for some of 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.600 the events on their platforms. Our thanks to you very 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.520 much for joining us today. Mark Douglas is CEO of 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:10.000 steel House marketing firm with a lot of experience in 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:15.040 a social media marketing and so on. Interestingly, Paul Bloomberg 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:19.399 Intelligence suggests that Twitter's advertising base will actually grow in 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.600 spite of its ban on President Donald Trump right now, 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:27.120 and we'll have to see if that's the case. Well 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:29.960 at this time for Bloomberg Opinion, so let's welcome Bloomberg 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.120 Opinion columnist Brooke Sutherland, who is a great opinion out 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:38.280 about corporate America and how it responded to last Wednesday's events. 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:42.320 You know, it's really interesting. Only one major business group, 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:46.400 and that's the National Association of Manufacturers signaled the president 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:50.560 out when they were denouncing what happened on Wednesday. Many 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.480 many big companies from JP Morgan to Goldman Sachs dennounced 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:58.439 the violence, but only this one group actually mentioned President 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.800 Trump by name. Brook, You write about this because it's 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:04.439 fascinating that it's it's a pretty conservative group that actually 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.879 ended up doing this what led to the decision? Sure, 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:09.480 and you know, I think we should say too that 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.480 they didn't just call him out by name. They called 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:15.640 for the Vice president and the cabinet to seriously consider 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:19.120 removing President Trump from office with the twenty five Amendment. 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:22.520 So this was a pretty incredible statement, um, for many 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:25.520 business group, like you said, but especially from the National 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:28.800 Association of Manufacturers, which has historically, you know, really aligned 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:33.439 itself with conservative priorities. They advocated very aggressively for the 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:37.320 Trump tax cuts in twenties seventeen, for example. But um, 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:39.720 you know, I think for this group in particular, that 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:43.120 the frustration level with the antics of the Trump administration 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:46.080 has been rising for months now. Um. You know, the 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:50.919 head of this organization, uh labeled the protests over you know, 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:54.960 the economic protection measures that were taken in the wake 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:58.240 of the coronavirus m as idiots, saying that, you know, 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:00.720 if we try to rush reopening the economy, that's going 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:03.679 to be the detriment of everybody. Um. Also, you know, 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:07.360 came up very strongly against the efforts by some Republicans 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:11.040 in Congress to uh, you know, argue against the certification 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:14.439 of the election results. And I think where this frustration 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:17.280 stems from is that, you know, the reason why the 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:21.399 National Association of Manufacturers has been aligned with Republicans is 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:23.760 that they have tended to be the pro business party, 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:27.560 that they've advocated policies that are good for businesses. And 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:31.120 that has not necessarily been the case, um this past year. 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:33.480 I mean, if you look at the handling of the 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:37.040 coronavirus pandemic, and you know the fact that stimulus became 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:40.159 such a political football, the fact that any kind of 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:43.840 you know, aggressive progress on stimulus measures was sort of 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:46.560 turned into a side show with this election narrative. I mean, 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:49.520 that is not good for business. That is not what 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:53.679 manufacturers were certainly hoping to see from a Republican party. 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:57.560 And in Manufacturers Brooke, I mean, as you've written about before, 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:01.560 they've actually, i mean they've really stepped up during this pandemic, 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:04.600 whether it's you know, Ford or General Motors, you know, 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:09.040 making ventilators, or Boeing you know, making face shields. So 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:13.000