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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and this is Annie, and you're

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Speaker 1: listening to stuff mom never told you. Now today we're

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Speaker 1: talking about something that has come up a few times

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Speaker 1: and a few different pop culture related conversations. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: that is the cool girl. I'm not. I swear we didn't.

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Speaker 1: We didn't plan that. We did not. That was totally

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Speaker 1: natural and probably very uncool. It wasn't cool. We would

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Speaker 1: not be cool girls. Um, so the cool girl has

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Speaker 1: really been a kind of pop culture phenomena for a while.

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Speaker 1: It was not invented by Gillian Flynn, but she sort

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Speaker 1: of pioneered the concept. So who is the cool girl Annie?

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Speaker 1: What is she like? She's quote one of the guys,

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Speaker 1: but she's still very undeniably sexy. Like we mentioned in

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Speaker 1: the wedding episode, she's probably eating burgers and pounding beers

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Speaker 1: and she's just really relaxed and chill about everything. But

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Speaker 1: cool girl is actually another way that women are held

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Speaker 1: to absurd standards and expected to be everything, even things

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Speaker 1: that are contradictory, all at once. And I would say

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Speaker 1: generally to please a man or male gaze exactly, because

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Speaker 1: if you're the kind of woman who crushes beers and

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Speaker 1: eats cheeseburgers all day long. Odds are you maybe might

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Speaker 1: have a harder time staying trim, but yet cool girl

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Speaker 1: does so, and she does so seemingly without effort. So

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Speaker 1: this is not the girl who puts a lot of

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Speaker 1: work into her appearance. She just magically sables to embody

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Speaker 1: all these things at once. Yeah, and um, I think

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Speaker 1: we see this character this kind of trope a lot

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Speaker 1: of places, but recently, with the help of Jillian Flynn,

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Speaker 1: we kind of have a name for it. And I

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Speaker 1: would also say it's kind of semi related, not like

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Speaker 1: those other girls which I have a friend and I'm

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Speaker 1: so glad she's like not that anymore. But she used

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Speaker 1: to very much hate other women. She's not like those

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Speaker 1: other girls. Oh my goodness. I mean that comes up

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Speaker 1: all over the place, but sort of owning my crap thing.

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Speaker 1: I think I in doing this research for this episode,

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Speaker 1: I think I realized I am a recovering cool girl

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Speaker 1: because I used to have men would sometimes say to me,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're not like other girls, and I would

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Speaker 1: take it, I'm like, oh, thank you, And I thought

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Speaker 1: I thought it was a compliment. And what's funny is

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Speaker 1: now that if a man says that to me. Now

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Speaker 1: I say, oh, you're right, I'm much worse much. I

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Speaker 1: love it and it's so dumb. I mean, I have definitely, definitely,

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Speaker 1: somewhere along the line in my teens or twenties said

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Speaker 1: something like, oh, I'm not friends with women too much drama.

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Speaker 1: I definitely definitely have said that. And also, I mean

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to like nineteen year old

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Speaker 1: Bridget and say, have you ever read a history book?

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Speaker 1: Because historically speaking, men be starting drama wars all of that.

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Speaker 1: You know, what are you thinking? I I sort of

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Speaker 1: I feel like that people see me as this cool girl,

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Speaker 1: like I sort of touched on and I probably have

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Speaker 1: played it up without consciously knowing it, maybe because it

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Speaker 1: does feel like a safer, more well liked way to

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Speaker 1: behave in public. Like you're gonna generally people are gonna

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Speaker 1: want to hang out with you if you seem chill

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna drink beer and eat burgers with them

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Speaker 1: are chill. I'm chill, But it's more like I just

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Speaker 1: really don't I want to have any kind of confrontation almost,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like if we're arguing about something,

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Speaker 1: especially politics, I will be there and I will argue,

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Speaker 1: but like smaller things, I'm just gonna be like, okay, whatever.

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of like that too. I think that people

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Speaker 1: who know me would probably think, which it's super chill.

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Speaker 1: But I think, and this is something we get into

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Speaker 1: in the episode. I think that sometimes being known as

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Speaker 1: the person who could have goes with the flow can

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Speaker 1: be and I generally am pretty go with the flow,

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Speaker 1: but being known for that can be a bit of

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Speaker 1: a trap because then when you actually have a problem,

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Speaker 1: or actually have an opinion, or actually have a strong

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Speaker 1: stance about something, or you have feelings about something that

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Speaker 1: maybe are annoying or nagging or whatever, you can feel

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Speaker 1: obligated to not express how you're feeling because you've already

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Speaker 1: built with this idea of being chill. And that's I

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Speaker 1: think that's something that I definitely felt, where you know,

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Speaker 1: I've set the expectation that I'm very easy go with

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Speaker 1: the flow, and I think for the most part, I

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Speaker 1: tend to be pretty go with the flow, making myself

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Speaker 1: sound like a stoner or anything, but you know, like

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Speaker 1: I generally don't spent the small stuff, but when I do,

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Speaker 1: and everybody chill not chill woman man whoever, we all

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Speaker 1: have weird hang ups and anxieties, and so when you

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Speaker 1: find yourself feeling a hang up for anxiety, when you've

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Speaker 1: been kind of wearing this labelst chill girl, it can

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Speaker 1: feel really hard to express that. Yeah, I totally agree,

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Speaker 1: and I think, like going back to my thing the dishes,

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Speaker 1: my thirty page essay about the dishes, that that is

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Speaker 1: an example of something where hate doing dishes. It is

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Speaker 1: one of my least favorite chores of all time. And

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Speaker 1: you cook, so there's always dishes, and so if I

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Speaker 1: just to have this, I usually set up the expectation

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Speaker 1: if I cook, you're going to clean. That's just how

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Speaker 1: it is. And I did feel kind of a pressure

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Speaker 1: sometimes not to nag about it, like if I asked

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Speaker 1: too many times, then it became nagging. It wasn't cool,

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Speaker 1: like I think you're gonna be cool, come on. And

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Speaker 1: that's why it built up to the point of the

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Speaker 1: thirty page essay. I think because I couldn't express it

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Speaker 1: in a way that I thought would make me like

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Speaker 1: shrill or nagging or something. Right. As women, it just

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Speaker 1: goes to show how anxious we are about coming off

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Speaker 1: as easy, going to the point where we won't even

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Speaker 1: express reasonable conflict. And every interpersonal relationship is going to

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Speaker 1: have disagreements. You're gonna you're gonna say, oh, I want

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Speaker 1: it to the dishes, and he's gonna forget whatever. Like

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Speaker 1: work relationships, friendships, family relationships, conflict is a normal part

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Speaker 1: of interpersonally sationships. But I feel like, as women, we

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Speaker 1: are so afraid of seeming difficult, of seeming annoying, of

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Speaker 1: seeming like a seeming like a a nag, a shrill,

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Speaker 1: like so many different things that we will kind of

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Speaker 1: sell ourselves out a little bit in order to keep

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Speaker 1: the peace. And I've seen it myself. I mean, in

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Speaker 1: doing the research for this episode, I was reminded of

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Speaker 1: a time that I was sort of pretending to be

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Speaker 1: the kind of woman who enjoyed sports, and it ended

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Speaker 1: with me, do you have you ever been to a

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Speaker 1: baseball game? Do you know they're like nine hours long?

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Speaker 1: So this ended with me in the hot, hot thumb

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Speaker 1: for several hours and this game I don't think. I

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Speaker 1: was like, how long could they be? An hour? You know,

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Speaker 1: an hour and a half? Tabs, I can do this,

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Speaker 1: And in the middle of the game, I had I

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Speaker 1: had to come clean. I was like, listen, I might

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Speaker 1: I got a level with you. I might have given

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Speaker 1: you the false impression that I was down with this.

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Speaker 1: I'm super knocked down with it, and I'm gonna I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna get out of here. Like the guy was like,

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Speaker 1: you told me your lovely as well. I really it was.

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Speaker 1: I When I found out, I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be sitting in the sun for I just

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Speaker 1: didn't know they could be that long. I'm not a

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Speaker 1: baseball person, a smart person. What can I say? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I will say for me when I was reading more

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Speaker 1: about this, I don't want this to sound braggy, because

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Speaker 1: it's not. I get asked out a lot because I

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Speaker 1: am I think seen as Oh, she she's one of

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Speaker 1: the guys. She likes video games, all this stuff. But

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Speaker 1: it always comes with this expectation that because I am

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Speaker 1: the cool girl, sex is going to be like immediate,

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Speaker 1: and guys are always kind of upset and not cool

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Speaker 1: with the fact that I'm like, wait a minute, because

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Speaker 1: you like video games, dudes assume that you will have

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Speaker 1: sex right away. Well, well, yes, that's it. I think

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Speaker 1: that must be it. No, but they assume, oh, she's

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Speaker 1: she's cool. She's one of the guys. Yeah, she must

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Speaker 1: want to have sex as much as I do, and

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Speaker 1: that she's not even if she doesn't, she wants to

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Speaker 1: be seen as cool, like maybe that you can see.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's almost like you can tell I not generally

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Speaker 1: I don't give in to pressure, but maybe there is

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Speaker 1: that sense that guys feel like they can pressure someone

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Speaker 1: who clearly does want to be liked, which isn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: what's going on with me, but I think that it

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Speaker 1: can be perceived that way, so that you will just

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Speaker 1: be like, Okay, sure we'll have sex, but that isn't.

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Speaker 1: Something I've noticed is getting asked out. And then sometimes

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Speaker 1: it will even be friends with benefits, like I've been

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Speaker 1: asked more than once by someone I assumed like we

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Speaker 1: were just friends, like can we be friends with benefits?

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Speaker 1: It seems like you're really cool, which is an interesting

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Speaker 1: part of it. First of all, that's a real hail

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Speaker 1: Mary ask. You know, I'm just gonna throw this out there.

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Speaker 1: We're friends. Can I have sex with your I mean,

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Speaker 1: you got a handed to him? He shot, he shot

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Speaker 1: a shot. Yeah you know, yeah, I mean, And to

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Speaker 1: the to the dudes that asked me that most of

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Speaker 1: them were pretty cool when I was like, Nope, not

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Speaker 1: for me, and yeah, that's particularly not for me. Especially,

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Speaker 1: no offense to anybody not not with those fellows call

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Speaker 1: him out by name and be like, here's why I

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Speaker 1: won't sleep with you so and so because we watch

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Speaker 1: The Hulk together does not mean they're just gonna be

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Speaker 1: a friends of benefit situations. Well, I think it really

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Speaker 1: comes back to what you see around the discourse around

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Speaker 1: cool girl, right, the idea that you are put in

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Speaker 1: a box, and so these men see you and they

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Speaker 1: immediately think she likes video games, she likes Star Wars,

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Speaker 1: she is in this box. Uh, and in that box

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Speaker 1: is you know, being okay with being friends with benefits

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Speaker 1: or having sex right away or not wanting to get

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Speaker 1: committed or whatever host of things men are including in

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Speaker 1: that package when they find out about your interests. And

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Speaker 1: so it really is an interesting dynamic because it just

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Speaker 1: it just almost a sort of dehumanizing and that it

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Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't take into account the lovely and multifaceted

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Speaker 1: and multidimensional you know person who was Annie, who is

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Speaker 1: all these things. Yeah, but it's true, right seeing you

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Speaker 1: in a very wonder like you're like gay fictionalize a flat,

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Speaker 1: one dimensional, fictionalized version of yourself, yes, that you see

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Speaker 1: in media created mostly by men. And I will say

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Speaker 1: a lot of this that we're talking about, like the

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Speaker 1: drinking of beer and eating burgers and liking sports, those

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Speaker 1: are all very masculine things. So by being the cool girl,

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Speaker 1: you're cooler than than women. You're kind of like, I'm

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Speaker 1: on the same level. I like what you dude to like,

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Speaker 1: and therefore I am better than these exactly. And I've

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Speaker 1: glad you brought that up, because as a girl who

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Speaker 1: likes rare burgers and drinks a lot of beer, No

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Speaker 1: one is saying that women out there do not genuinely

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Speaker 1: appreciate these things, even though those things are considered traditionally masculine.

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Speaker 1: And if you do, you know that. I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: that people don't exist who appreciate those things. Women don't exist.

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Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is that we can't pretend like

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Speaker 1: there isn't a attitude in society that says that if

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Speaker 1: you're a woman who likes masculine things, you are better

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Speaker 1: than women who want to drinks. Go and watch the Bachelor,

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Speaker 1: right are You're you're eating your salad, and yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: definitely kind of a signifier of it is cooler to

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Speaker 1: do this sort of masculalized thing. Let's talk a bit

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Speaker 1: about how Jillian Flynn describes cool Girl in the book

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Speaker 1: Gone Girl. So if you haven't read Grone Girl or

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Speaker 1: I guess seen the movie, there might be some mild

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Speaker 1: spoilers here. The main heroine or I guess anti heroin,

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Speaker 1: depending on how you look at it. I like her.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna call her heroine. I like her. Um, she

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Speaker 1: has her fault she definitely has faults. She's complex. She's

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Speaker 1: gonna said that that's a good neupeanism. She's complex. Basically,

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Speaker 1: the heroine of this movie and book, Amy Donne, she

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Speaker 1: kind of painstakingly creates this image of a cool girl

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Speaker 1: in order to woo this guy Nick, and so you think, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she's a very cool girl. She's chill, she isn't really

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Speaker 1: that into commitment, she's she's not possessive all of this,

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Speaker 1: and then later to come fine out in the book

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Speaker 1: this is actually a carefully and painstakingly created version of

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Speaker 1: what she thinks this guy wants, and that she's very

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Speaker 1: purposefully crafting it to sort of woo him. So here's

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Speaker 1: here's how fun describes it. Men always say that as

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Speaker 1: a defining compliment, don't they. She's a cool girl. Being

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Speaker 1: in the cool girl means I am a hot, brilliant,

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Speaker 1: funny woman who adores football, poker, dirty jokes, burping, who

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Speaker 1: plays video games, drinks cheap beer, loves three sims and

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Speaker 1: anal sex and James, hot dogs and hamburgers into her

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Speaker 1: mouth like the world's biggest culinary gang bang, and somehow

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Speaker 1: while maintaining a size too. Because cool girls are above

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Speaker 1: all hot, hot and understanding. Cool girls never get angry.

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Speaker 1: They only smile and as your grand loving manner, and

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Speaker 1: let their men do whatever they want. Go ahead, shoot

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Speaker 1: on me. I don't mind. I'm a cool girl. Men

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Speaker 1: actually think this girl exists. Maybe their fooled because so

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Speaker 1: many women are willing to pretend to be this girl.

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Speaker 1: For a long time, cool girl offended me. I used

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Speaker 1: to see men, friends, co workers, strangers getty over these

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Speaker 1: awful pretender women, and I'd want to sit these men

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Speaker 1: down and calmly say, you are not dating a woman.

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Speaker 1: You're dating a woman who has watched too many movies

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Speaker 1: written by socially awkward men. Who would like to believe

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Speaker 1: this kind of woman exists and might kiss them. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to grab this poor guy by the lapels

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Speaker 1: of a messenger bag and say that really doesn't love

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Speaker 1: chili dogs that much. No one loves chili dogs that much.

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Speaker 1: And the cool girls are even more pathetic. They're not

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Speaker 1: even pretending to be a woman they want to be.

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Speaker 1: They're pretending to be the woman a man wants them

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Speaker 1: to be. Oh and if you're not a cool girl,

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Speaker 1: I beg you not to believe that your man doesn't

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Speaker 1: want the cool girl. It may be a slightly different version.

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Speaker 1: Maybe she's a vegetarian, so cool girl loves satan and

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Speaker 1: it's great with dogs. Or maybe he's a hipster artist,

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Speaker 1: so cool girl is a tattooed and be spectacles nerd

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Speaker 1: who loves comics. Sounds familiar. There are variations to the

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Speaker 1: window dressing, but believe me, he wants cool girl, who's

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Speaker 1: basically the girl who likes everything he likes and doesn't

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Speaker 1: ever complain. Yeah, I read that in its entirety. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure people were like, please don't read the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: but it just is so spot on, and I think

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Speaker 1: so many women read that and thought, yes, yeah, I remember,

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Speaker 1: I think I saw the movie before I read the book,

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Speaker 1: and Rosemond Pike plays the main heroine anti heroin, and

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Speaker 1: I remember her reading this, and as as it was going,

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, Yes,

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Speaker 1: this was the first time I encountered the cool girl

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Speaker 1: stereotype laid out like that. And I agreed so hard.

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Speaker 1: If anyone hasn't right or seen the movie or I

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Speaker 1: would recommend it because then she kind of lets herself

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Speaker 1: not be the cool girl. Yeah. And so when I

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Speaker 1: the reason why I really identify with Amy Dunn in

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Speaker 1: the book and movie, not because I'm a murderer that

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Speaker 1: oh my goodness, yeah, just kidding, or am I, But

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Speaker 1: it's because I don't think I had seen it laid

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Speaker 1: out that way. And in the book and in the movie,

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Speaker 1: one of the central conflicts that and against spoiler alert

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Speaker 1: if you haven't read it or seen it, but one

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Speaker 1: of the central conflicts is that Nick, her husband, falls

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Speaker 1: in love with cool girl, and so Amy realizes she

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Speaker 1: loves Nick back, and so she decides to show that

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Speaker 1: that Nick can't be in love with this fake version

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Speaker 1: of herself. Nick needs to see the real her and

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Speaker 1: so at this point this would have made more heavily

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Speaker 1: in the book. But when she drops her cool girl persona,

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Speaker 1: that's when Nick starts cheating on her, starts you know

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Speaker 1: what happened to the cool girl I married blah blah blah,

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Speaker 1: and that she feels very betrayed that she showed herself

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Speaker 1: to someone in a real way and that he didn't

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Speaker 1: didn't love her back, that he that he was more

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Speaker 1: in love with this version of herself that she was

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Speaker 1: pretending to be. And even though I am I am

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Speaker 1: not I'm murdering, I'm murdering person like she is. I

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Speaker 1: definitely identified with that, because, Yeah, when you pretend to

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Speaker 1: be the girl who wants to go to a nine

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Speaker 1: hour baseball game, the person that you're with is falling

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Speaker 1: in love with that version of yourself. And so if

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Speaker 1: that version of yourself isn't real, so if you follow

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Speaker 1: that that trajectory, so let let's say that I am

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Speaker 1: up marrying that person, I have to pretend to like

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Speaker 1: baseball forever. It's only a matter of time until that

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Speaker 1: until it just doesn't work. And so it really crystallized

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Speaker 1: the danger of buying into this cool girl, this cool

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Speaker 1: gool narrative. Yeah, you will be trapped in a life

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Speaker 1: of cooking and doing the dishes and pretending to be

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Speaker 1: cool with it. But it's fine, you know, I don't mind.

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Speaker 1: I love this. Yeah, this is a totally equitable division

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Speaker 1: of labor, super chills division of labor. We got here,

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Speaker 1: very cool about this whole thing. And you see how

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Speaker 1: cool I am. I know you say that while you're

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Speaker 1: like sweating and getting a nosebleed, like any are you okay?

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Speaker 1: And Helen Peterson, who is basically the greatest of all

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Speaker 1: time culture writer at BuzzFeed whose work will be name

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Speaker 1: checked a ton on this episode, she actually argues that

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Speaker 1: Clara Bow was the first cool girl. She writes, Clara

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Speaker 1: Bell never stopped moving on green in interviews running from

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Speaker 1: one day to the next, even standing, she was like

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Speaker 1: a toddler, constantly rocking back from heel to toe. She

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Speaker 1: had short, blaming red hair, a thick Brooklyn accent, and

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Speaker 1: horrible manners. Instead of dining with the stodgy Hollywood elite,

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Speaker 1: she spent her weekends hanging out at the usc football games,

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Speaker 1: floating with the players, including a young pre stardom John Wayne.

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Speaker 1: Over the course of the twenties, Boo became the flapper

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Speaker 1: par excellence in films like Dancing Mothers. She drank and

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Speaker 1: danced the Charleston and rode in cars with boys in it.

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Speaker 1: She became the world's biggest star and the first cool girl.

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Speaker 1: We have some more examples of that and examples of

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Speaker 1: sort of real life kind of personas of cool girl.

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Speaker 1: But first we're gonna stop for a quick break for

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Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor.

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Speaker 1: UH set up this this thing for the rest of us.

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Speaker 1: Megan Fox's character Michaela from Transformers, there's another example. She's Oh, man,

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Speaker 1: I still remember that scene where she's like she's helping

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Speaker 1: fix the car, but she's got her ass out exactly

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Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. I can when I think of

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Speaker 1: Megan Fox, I think of that scene too. Is that

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Speaker 1: really how you fix car? You just happened to like

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Speaker 1: how I fix the car? You just get your ass

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Speaker 1: out there and you look great, you know, right right? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean I thought that's the way you're doing it wrong.

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Speaker 1: Mela cunases Lily and black Swan. She parties, drinks and

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Speaker 1: it is a rare burger scarfing Ballerina she was also

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Speaker 1: after this. I had my first sex stream ever after

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Speaker 1: I saw Black Swan and it was with her and

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Speaker 1: Joseph Gordon Lovett. Oh wait, where did he come from?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe I saw Exception around the same time. Interesting.

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Speaker 1: I just think every time I think like, oh, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: you're just like family apportman because she has a sex

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Speaker 1: dream about Mila Kunas. Gosh, now I'm the murdering area

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Speaker 1: one of us. One of this podcast duo is a murderer.

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Speaker 1: Is like a murderer. We're not going to tell you

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Speaker 1: which one. Yeah, you'll come to. You'll come to our

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Speaker 1: meet up and then you'll be like, oh, I figured

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Speaker 1: out who was You'll know right away. You'll just get

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Speaker 1: a sense. We don't murder. Any listeners are friends of

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Speaker 1: the show. That's that's a rule that we have. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Mila Kutas, I think is she's done a cool girl

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Speaker 1: on a couple of movies. She's also in if you've

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Speaker 1: seen Forgetting Sarah Marshall, she's a bit of a cool

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Speaker 1: girl in that movie where Jason Segel is dating his

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Speaker 1: co star on some like cheesy show they work on together,

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Speaker 1: and she's presented as the uptight girl who you know,

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Speaker 1: makes him hold her purse when she goes to the

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Speaker 1: bathroom and that kind of thing. And by contrast, he

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Speaker 1: meets Mila Kunas, who is you know, free spirited and

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Speaker 1: doesn't even seem to carry a purse and has a

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Speaker 1: picture of her, you know, exposing her boobs on a

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Speaker 1: bathroom wall. Like she just seems like someone who is

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Speaker 1: much more chill unless the audience is supposed to root

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Speaker 1: for him getting with her her And we sort of

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Speaker 1: in the movie, Kristen Bell plays the type the uptight blonde,

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Speaker 1: and we're meant to see Mila Kunas as the woman

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Speaker 1: that he's he's supposed to wind up with, the woman

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Speaker 1: that's going to be perfect for him, simply because she

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Speaker 1: is a foil for for Kristen Bell's character, who is

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Speaker 1: the tight as blonde. And so it's interesting how movies

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Speaker 1: just sort of used that as a shorthand. And I

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Speaker 1: think Mila Kunas is the shorthand of chill girl in movies.

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Speaker 1: She's also in those whiskey commercials where she's you know,

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Speaker 1: a sexy woman drinking a whiskey meat at the bar,

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Speaker 1: very mysterious. I think she really kind of traffics and

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Speaker 1: a kind of cool girl. Cool girl is um she does.

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Speaker 1: And two points on that is, I think that you

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Speaker 1: and I are sexy ladies who enjoy some whiskey at bars.

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Speaker 1: But also it's kind of funny because she got her

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Speaker 1: start as um what's her name from that seventy show

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Speaker 1: who is not a cool girl. But even then, I'm

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Speaker 1: revealing how much I know about that seventies show because

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Speaker 1: it's a really good show to watch her your board

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Speaker 1: and trying to get to sleep, like on a plane.

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Speaker 1: The foil for her as uncooled girl is Donna Laura

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Speaker 1: Prepon's character. So Donna doesn't wear makeup, she works for

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Speaker 1: the radio station, she's getting on all the hijinks. She

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Speaker 1: shows her butt in the yearbook for a prank, like

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Speaker 1: she loves pranks. So again, you can never have in

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Speaker 1: pop culture. I'm having like a revelation. It's like that

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Speaker 1: same Madonnald horror thing. You can never be a multifaceted person.

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Speaker 1: You can either be cool or uncool. I think that

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Speaker 1: as women we are often put into one of two categories,

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Speaker 1: and you can't have the uptight character who is a

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Speaker 1: pain in the ass and is a drag without that

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Speaker 1: sort of cool, freewheelan person. It's like one doesn't exist

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Speaker 1: with that the other. Yeah, they have to. It's like

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Speaker 1: a chemical equation. You have to bounce each other out.

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Speaker 1: There's something about Mary coming up again and stuff mob

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Speaker 1: never told you. Mary is a hot surgeon who thinks

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Speaker 1: farts are hilarious, love sports, wants nothing more than to

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Speaker 1: wash down or burger with a real beer. Um. I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen that movie, but again, I can just get

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Speaker 1: the I got the vibe. Yeah, she loves golf and football.

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Speaker 1: And Jillian Flynn actually noted in a Vulture interview that

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Speaker 1: Mary Cameran Diaz's character it was actually one of the

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Speaker 1: inspirations for cool Girl. She was watching that movie and

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Speaker 1: she thought, Wow, that's a cool girl. Then I thought, oh, right,

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Speaker 1: she's been invented by guys. Yeah makes sense. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: basically writers coming up with a fantasy version of the

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Speaker 1: woman that they would like to exist. That is, like,

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Speaker 1: you like everything that the dude likes and you're not

425
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: going to complain about anything. Um. It is very one dimensional,

426
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: which is kind of interesting that, Yeah, that's what people

427
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: apparently want. I've often thought that straight men are taught

428
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: the best kind of partner is a partner that is

429
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 1: sort of a mirror of themselves, like a projection of themselves.

430
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 1: And I can think about movies like five hundred Days

431
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 1: of Summer, you know, Annie's sex like sex fantasy shows

432
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 1: of Gordon Levitt. Oh my gosh, it's all happened. Hey,

433
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: if you're out there, call my girl Annie. Hey, man,

434
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 1: you know, hard to find me. But no, he falls

435
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 1: for Summer because precisely because she likes all the same movies,

436
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,360
Speaker 1: all the same books, all the same crap that he likes.

437
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 1: And they're in an elevator. He's listening to the Smith

438
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 1: and she says, oh, the Smith sound like them, and

439
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 1: he's like, oh my god, she a girl likes the Smith,

440
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: can't you know. It's a big moment for him. And

441
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: the movie is problematic for its own reasons, but I

442
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 1: do think it does a good job of demonstrating that

443
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 1: just because the woman mirrors your interests is not necessarily

444
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: something to base a relationship on. And I think that

445
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,120
Speaker 1: we are taught that when you if you meet someone

446
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: who is a you know, if you're straight and you

447
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: meet somebody who is a girl, like a woman version

448
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: of yourself. Oh that's a that's the perfect partner for

449
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: this guy. And actually that's not necessarily how it works. No,

450
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 1: not at all, And Flynn basically says that the cool

451
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: girl is really about showing pressure that women deal with

452
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: to be everything everything to men. Quote. It also explains

453
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: the tremendous pressure that's on women, not in a boo

454
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: who pour us kind of way, but acknowledging that idea

455
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: that good God, there's something wrong with the fact that

456
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: we're constantly willing to make ourselves over for men that

457
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: were so interested in pleasing men in a way that

458
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: men would never do for women. As she says, you

459
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 1: don't see men suddenly becoming experts on Jane Austin and

460
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 1: joining knitting clubs the way women will teach themselves something.

461
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: I'm not saying all women do this or that. Just

462
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: because a woman says she likes football means she's faking it.

463
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 1: I love video games. I'd be really piste off if

464
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: someone said I love video games because I was trying

465
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 1: to be a cool girl. I can't think of too

466
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: many instances where a guy has kind of cottoned onto

467
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: my more quote. Traditionally, feminine interest in the way that. Yes,

468
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: I have tried to like football. Um, I like beer,

469
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:53,959
Speaker 1: so I can if beers there, I can get on

470
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: board with the football. Yeah, if beers in the mix,

471
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: I can. I can tolerate a lot of things, even

472
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: half a baseball game if years in the mix, but

473
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: only half half, no more. Sometimes they can be nine hours.

474
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: There should be public service announcements on TV so that

475
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: you so people, you know, you commit to a baseball

476
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 1: game could be nine hours people. I don't think that's

477
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: that's not common knowledge if you were not into baseball,

478
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: that when you commit to watching a baseball game, you

479
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: could be there for nine hours. We should record a

480
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: p s A like it's baseball season. That means popcorn, paynuts, beer,

481
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 1: But it also means nine hours in the hot sun.

482
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 1: If I had seen that, it would have saved me.

483
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: Sometimes you'd be like, oh no, I can't do that.

484
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: Thank goodness for that p s A. But I think

485
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: I think Flynn comes back to this again and again.

486
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: She basically says there's nothing wrong with trying to take

487
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: an active interest in your partner's interests. But Flynn says,

488
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: if it's not reciprocal, we basically can sell ourselves out

489
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: and lose part of our identity, which is exactly what

490
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: happens in Gone Girl. In that Vulture interview, she says,

491
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: I see so many couples with a woman goes out

492
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: of her way. It's to get why her boyfriend, her

493
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: husband likes certain things and tries to get involved in

494
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: a way that is often not reciprocated. I think it's

495
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: a very female trait to want to please men and

496
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,239
Speaker 1: to want to be considered the cool girl. And if

497
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: you take that to the farthest reach where you're actually

498
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: selling yourself out and degrading yourself by doing things you

499
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: actually don't want to do in order for this man

500
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: to think that you do, that's a very perverse thing.

501
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: That's like, yeah, you win, Larry, tell her what she's one.

502
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 1: She's one a lifetime of pretending to be someone that

503
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: she's not and for someone to like her for all

504
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: the wrong reasons, and that I think nails it right.

505
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: I don't want the kind of person in my life

506
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: who only wants me because they think I like X, Y,

507
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: and Z, and it's not fair to them and it's

508
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: not their to me. And I think when you parse

509
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: cool girl aesthetic in relation to feelings and needs and

510
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 1: commitment and all of that. I don't want someone to

511
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: want to be in my life because I've learned to

512
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: stifle all my anxieties, all my all my uncooled traits,

513
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: all my hang ups, whatever. I want someone who wants

514
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: to listen to those things and is generally okay that

515
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: I am a person who has feelings and those feelings

516
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: aren't always chill, you know. I want someone who is

517
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: okay with that. The kind of person that is only

518
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: attracted to people who basically are not human, who are,

519
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: you know, basically like sentient sex dolls or something. The

520
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: kind of person who thinks that is their ideal woman.

521
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: Isn't the kind of person that I want to beat around. Yeah,

522
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: and I remember this. I feel like this is such

523
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 1: a strong thing, even if, even if maybe we don't

524
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: realize it, because I remember being in my first kind

525
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: of serious relationship and trying for so long to pretend

526
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: that I wasn't bothered by things, and then when I

527
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 1: would finally start opening up about it, being so embarrassed

528
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: that I was like a person that had things. You

529
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: have feelings you haven't had. What's wrong with me? Only

530
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: acceptable feeling is lust? And hunger for chili dogs. Yes, yes, exactly,

531
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: And Flynn goes on to say that giving a name

532
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: to cool girl syndrome is good if it helps us

533
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: understand and talk about this pressure, this pressure that we

534
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 1: put on women. Quote, I like that has become kind

535
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: of shorthand we all know what we're talking about when

536
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: we're talking about cool girl is the putting up with machismo,

537
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: bullsh and smiling and nodding when you know better. And

538
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: I said, mckismo, And you know what, I'm gonna go

539
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 1: with it. You're flaws. I'm a human with flaws. I'm

540
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: cool sometimes but not all the time. Honestly, I know

541
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: you're kidding, but that's I think that you just hit

542
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: something on the head right there, which is it's okay

543
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: to be cool sometimes sometimes I'm cool. Sometimes I'm not cool.

544
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: Nobody is cool. Even Farnsie probably gets diarrhea every now

545
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: and then. Nobody nobody's cool all the time. It's not

546
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:47,959
Speaker 1: even Fronzie. Yeah, I'm definitely like, I love burgers and

547
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: beer and whiskey, and I just think that for me,

548
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: it goes back to staying the size to like saying

549
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: super this idealized version of sexy while doing that. And

550
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: I have a friend and I've over the years watched

551
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: her kind of be the cool girl in public and

552
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: then in private just struggle so hard to like maintain

553
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: this weight. And it breaks my heart, and I keep

554
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: trying to. I think she's coming around, but I mean

555
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things tied up into that, right,

556
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: Because she thinks she has to look a certain way

557
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: guys won't find her attractive. She also thinks she has

558
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: to behave this certain way our people won't find her attractive.

559
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: And and your worth is only in what that's too

560
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: much question, thank you? That's too much. It's way too much.

561
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it breakes my heart because I feel like

562
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: when you see someone who is a cool girl, the

563
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: work they're doing exactly the work they're doing to do that,

564
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: and like maybe the misery and all the brain power

565
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: they're devoting to it outside of what you see, it's, yeah,

566
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: that's too much. And that's why I'm pretty sure a

567
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: cool girl doesn't really exist. I don't think cool girl

568
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 1: exists either. I think we're all cool and uncool. You know,

569
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: where as women, we are vast, we can tame multitudes,

570
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: you know, we we can be cool and also have

571
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: hang ups, and that does it make us less cool,

572
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: It just makes us human. You know. I look at

573
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: I think I used to have real anxieties around liking

574
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: things that were traditionally feminized, you know, the Bachelor, Rose whatever.

575
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: I used to think, Oh, it's those girly things, And yeah,

576
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: you can be a cool person and still like to

577
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: watch The Bachelor and drink sparkling Rose. Like people like

578
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: what they like. We have taken gender performance to such

579
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: a drastically bizarre level that people like myself, you know,

580
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: smart with it. People will done something because it's associated

581
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: with femininity and not masculinity, and that's not That's not cool. No,

582
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: that is not cool at all. And it starts really

583
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: early because I remember in kindergarten. I don't know why

584
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: this was happening, but they were cookies and one was

585
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: painted pink and one was painted blue, and we were

586
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: all in a single file line and you get up

587
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: the front you say whether you wanted to pink cookie

588
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: or the blue cookie. Now I'm wondering if this was

589
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: some kind of experiment, but anyway, I got up to

590
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: the front, the teacher was like, would you like blue

591
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: or pink? I'm like, not pink blue, because I knew,

592
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: even at that young age, it was better to go

593
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: with the masculinized blue, the masculine blue, and not the

594
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: feminine pink. Wow, it starts, it starts so early. It does.

595
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: We've got even more stuff about the cool girl, but

596
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: first one more quick break for a word from our sponsor.

597
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: Then we're back. Thank you sponsor. So you talked about

598
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: a little bit about some cool girls. I think that

599
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: if there was a post her child for being an

600
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: anti cool girl, it's probably Anne Hathaway. I like Anne Hathaway,

601
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: but people I've read a lot of interesting commentary that

602
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: sort of says people don't like her because she seems

603
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: like someone who tries very hard, and you can sort

604
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: of see the artifice of her trying to be successful,

605
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: and she is very successful. When it's women, we don't

606
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: like that. We resent women who seemingly work very hard

607
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: and care quite a bit about success. So cool girl

608
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: is this girl who doesn't care effortlessly great blah blah blah.

609
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: Uncool girl would be someone who really cares, someone who

610
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: maybe cares too much. She nags, she's very unchill, she

611
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: tries too hard, and it shows cool is about effortless,

612
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: and if it's not effortless, it's not cool. And so

613
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 1: if Anne Hathaway is the archetype uncool girl, that would

614
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: make the archetype cool girl Jennifer Lawrence. I mean she

615
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: was for a while. She's sort of backing away from that,

616
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: I think a bit, or at least trying to. And

617
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: I saw I saw this great tweet that I thought

618
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: summed up kind of a bit about who she was

619
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: for a while. If Jennifer Lawrence falls on the red

620
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: carpet and no one's around to see it, is it's

621
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: still quirky. Oh that's great. I love that. Yeah. Kind

622
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: of a weird personal experienced thing for me is a

623
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, I dressed up as Anne Hathaway's catwoman.

624
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: I forgot she was cattleman. Yeah, And I mean I

625
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: was doing it because I was trying to find someone

626
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: that I Sami looked like and that fit the bill.

627
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: And a lot of people said to me, like, I

628
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: love Catwoman, but I hated Anne Hathaway as Catwoman. I

629
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: thought that was really interesting. People really don't like Anne Hathaway, No,

630
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: they don't. She's yeah, the uncool girl whereas Yeah, Jay

631
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: Laws pretty much been the cool girl. She drinks, she swears,

632
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: she trips on the red carpet. It's happened so many

633
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: times in this great Anne Helen Peterson long reread on

634
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: BuzzFeed about Jennifer Lawrence people actually wonder if Jennifer Lawrence

635
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: and this is like Jennifer Lawrence conspiracy theories down the

636
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: rabbit hole. But is she tripping on purpose because she

637
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: knows people will make a jif out of it, and

638
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: she wants to seem relatable, So she's doing relatable things

639
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: and it's her stick. So we know cool girl is

640
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: generally a performance, but if people can tell it's a performance,

641
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: then it's really not cool girl because cool girls are effortless,

642
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: and if you are putting effort into it, you're by

643
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: definition not a cool girl. Conundra, Right, this is the

644
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: cool girl condun Jim Peterson writes, I'm not suggesting that

645
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: Lawrence is intentionally inauthentic, scheming or manipulative. Rather like all

646
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: the cool girls, you know, she subconsciously figured out what

647
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: makes people like her and she's using it. But is

648
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: this persona truly cool or is it a reflection of

649
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: society's unreasonable and contradictory expectations of women, And I think

650
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: that really does a nice job of nailing one why.

651
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,479
Speaker 1: I think Jennifer Lawrence such an interesting example of cool

652
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: girl and too how unfair it is that society puts

653
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: women in these boxes. And I actually kind of feel

654
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: bad for Jennifer Lawrence that she's kind of figured out

655
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: what made people like her and used it, and more

656
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 1: power to her, but then kind of got burned by

657
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: that same thing, like she kind of I remember the

658
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,919
Speaker 1: moment when cracks started to appear in her cool girl

659
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 1: image and it was super unfair. So back there was

660
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: that big leak of all of these actresses hacked photos

661
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: as someone illegally hacked into their eye cloud accounts and

662
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 1: released so much sensitive material and it was awful and

663
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: it was a crime, and we should talk about it

664
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: like it's a crime. It's not a scandal, it's a crime,

665
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: you know, a cool girl. When that happened to them,

666
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: they might have said, oh, who cares, I'm you know,

667
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: I'm chill. But Jennifer Lawrence was not chill. She was

668
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:24,720
Speaker 1: rightfully piste. She was royally pissed. Anyone will be piste

669
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: but that's the rule with cool girl. Cool girl is,

670
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,760
Speaker 1: above all things, never angry, and so that I think

671
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people, stupid people were sort of not

672
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: cool with her having a problem with this. So here's

673
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: how she reacted. She said, just because I'm a public figure,

674
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 1: just because I'm an actress, does not mean I asked

675
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 1: for this. It does not mean that it comes with

676
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 1: the territory. It's my body. It should be my choice,

677
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 1: and the fact that it is not my choice is

678
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 1: absolutely disgusting. I can't believe we even live in this

679
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: kind of world. An Helen Peterson writes that her response

680
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,479
Speaker 1: revealed just how flimsy and how oversimplistic the cool girl

681
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: image built around her walking the first place. Lawrence could

682
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: be easy going, yes, but she could also be filled

683
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: with unmitigated rage. Lawrence's anger at the violation was completely warranted,

684
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: yet I recall reading in the profile experiencing a flicker

685
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: of annoyance. Maybe she should just calm down. I'd internalized

686
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: the very ideologies that make the cool girl so popular,

687
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,919
Speaker 1: namely that an angry woman is an unseemly woman, even

688
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: if that anger is justified. Yeah, yeah, I remember that too.

689
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 1: And everyone was not everyone, but it kind of there

690
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: was kind of this big media reaction of like, well,

691
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: she took the pictures and she posted them, like she

692
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: put them in the cloud, like she's so mad about

693
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: she looks sexy on screen. It's not a problem. Why

694
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: is the problem? And there was so much victim blaming

695
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: bowling around that there really was this Jay Law. This

696
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 1: her kind of cool girl persona shows how the cool

697
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 1: girl can be a prison. When she does very serious

698
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: things like advocating for equal pay for women actresses, are

699
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: being a vocal supporter of Times Up, it isn't treated

700
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: as serious. And again, as she ages her cool girl

701
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: antics like tripping on the red carpet or are being

702
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: fun loud drunk, can appear more sloppy than exactly. Peterson writes,

703
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: After all, coolness, at least in this configuration, is contingent

704
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: on youth, on carelessness, on asking other people not to

705
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: take you seriously because you don't take yourself seriously. On

706
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: the performance of total sexual availability, on the ability to

707
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: effortlessly maintain your figure while eating anything and everything, attention

708
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: increasingly difficult to sustain past the age of twenty nine,

709
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: And again it goes to show how unsustainable being a

710
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: cool girl is because it just you. You can't do

711
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 1: it forever. And as particularly for an actress as she ages,

712
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: if she continues to give society what they wanted, Society

713
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: wanted this, this version of Jennifer Lawrence, like we loved

714
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: her reform, we adored her for it. If she continues

715
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: to give us what we want past thirty, it will

716
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: only make her seem, you know, sloppy or are kind

717
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: of desperate, right, and it just it just goes to

718
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: show what a trap it is. Like you can't win.

719
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: If your aunt Hathaway, people hate you. If you're Jennifer

720
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 1: for Lawrence, people hate you. It doesn't matter what version

721
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: of femininity you perform. We're all hated in the end. Yeah,

722
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: I have sometimes acted I am no jail, but I

723
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: have felt this pressure of like when she reached thirty,

724
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: there's this just shift and like how you got to

725
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: behave and roles that you're gonna be getting as if

726
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: this is suddenly old age. In a way, I have

727
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: felt bad for j law and in a sense that

728
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: she's definitely really good at this persona and maybe it

729
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: is her and she's just like mastered being herself or

730
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: whatever it may be. But I feel like there's kind

731
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: of a feedback loop where then the Internet made it

732
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: more than it was, and so she was trying to

733
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: live up to like what the internet would image the

734
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: Internet created of her because she was so like everywhere

735
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: for a while memorable. You wanted to be like j Law.

736
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure how much of that has played

737
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,439
Speaker 1: into like some of these cracks. I've kind of felt,

738
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: in a stupid way, all of his worried for because

739
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 1: I'm like, there's no way anyone can live up to this. Well,

740
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 1: that's basically what she says. Um it doesn't actually sound

741
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: like being a cool girl is that fun for her?

742
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: And she she expresses the exact kind of anxiety that

743
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: you're pointing out on Oprah. She said, all of a sudden,

744
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: it was they're gonna get sick of me. That's when

745
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: all my insecurity came. I've probably been more insecure after

746
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: the last year. And I don't know what that's just

747
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: a feeling of I've got more to lose, I have

748
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: more people to disappoint, and so I see what you're saying.

749
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it does seem like, at least for her,

750
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 1: this cool girl persona that the Internet loved and that

751
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: we celebrated and affirmed. It's a trap because she has

752
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: to be more and more kind of cooler and cooler

753
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 1: and cooler. Less she disappoint all these people who have

754
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: built her up to be this cool girl. Yeah, whether

755
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 1: she she wanted to or not, she's by no me

756
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: is the first nationally visible cool girl. There's Olivia Munn,

757
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: Olivia Wild, Mila Kunas, but the cool girl has a

758
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: genealogy that traces all the way back the silent Hollywood.

759
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: Famous cool girls are women who became stars during periods

760
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: of societal anxiety over increasing freedoms for women, and as

761
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: people quietly wondered whether women, once emancipated, would become homely

762
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: cash treating is. Cool girls have been proof positive that

763
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: a woman could be liberated and progressive yet pleasing to men,

764
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: both in appearance and action. And again, it's all about

765
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 1: pleasing the men. Like, calm down, men, It's okay. As

766
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 1: we get more freedoms, it's still cool. So many things

767
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 1: in society are weirdly about men and their hangups, you know,

768
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: entire personas for women, pockets on jeans. There are so

769
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: many things that end up being because men be stressing men,

770
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: men be hung up. Yeah, we're just trying to calm

771
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: everyone down. And it's funny that women get the unfair

772
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 1: label of being dramatic and this and that, and actually

773
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: so much of society is dictated on men's hang ups,

774
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: and yet we are the ones who are stereotypically thought

775
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: of as dramatic or whatever. So where does this come from?

776
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: So there are a couple of different theories. One idea

777
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: is that because society pushes women to be competitive with

778
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: other women, some women end up thinking that they will

779
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: be rewarded by forging closeness with men. So again, think

780
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: about the women that you mentioned earlier, women who say

781
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: things like I only have male friends because women are

782
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 1: too much drama. Or little Annie who picks the blue

783
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,399
Speaker 1: cookie over the pink cookie just instinctively because she thought

784
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: that associating with maleness and and male perceived things was

785
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: going to be better for her. Canadian women's rights advocate

786
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: Julia s Lalan rights women are socialized to be competitive

787
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: to other women, and we can't deny that. We carry

788
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 1: that around with us our whole lives. There's this idea

789
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: that if you distance yourself from women and align yourself

790
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: with men. Not only will they quote choose you over

791
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: other women, but they will treat you with the same

792
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 1: respect they show their friends. It's a phenomenon known as

793
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: proximity to power, the idea that aligning yourself with a

794
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: person or group in power will give you access to

795
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,760
Speaker 1: said power. Yeah, my friend who not like other girls friends,

796
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: I think she did it for a couple of reasons,

797
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: but one was definitely kind of a power trying to

798
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 1: have this power. She was kind of afraid of being

799
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: labeled like a feminist, and I think she knew that

800
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: instinctively on some level, that it was like she was

801
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 1: going to get more acceptance this way. It's funny that

802
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: you say that, and it doesn't make me feel good

803
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: to admit this. In my early days of feminism, I

804
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: definitely performed a kind of cool girl feminism where I

805
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: would say, Oh, I'm not a feminazzi, I'm you know,

806
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: I'm at some man hater. I'm cool, you know, I

807
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: just want equal rights, bro. You know. I thought that

808
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: this would make feminism seem more palatable to men, and

809
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: that my like budding feminism would not keep me from

810
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: being like popular or ostracized I think, I think I

811
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,439
Speaker 1: think about myself in like early college was the first

812
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: time that I was ever really around men, not on

813
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: a regular basis because I went to all real school,

814
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: but that was really when I was trying to figure

815
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: out how do you socialize with man. I just didn't

816
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 1: have a sense of like, how you socialize with men

817
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: who are not blood relatives. And I did go through

818
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: a phase of you have to be one of the guys.

819
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: You have to be cool, and even if you are

820
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: into the whole women's rights thing, you have to say

821
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: it in a way that's not threatening. Feminism should be threatening, right,

822
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: Like feminism is about questioning the status quo. Sometimes it's

823
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: hard to do that and also look cool and effortless

824
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 1: and chill, because I'm not chill about inequality, and you

825
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: shouldn't be chilled about inequality. Yeah, and it's okay to

826
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: get pissed about some of the things that are going

827
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: on in our world. If you're chill about it, you're

828
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: doing it wrong. Yeah. I went to school. I went

829
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: to college at Georgia Tech, which when I went was

830
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 1: over seventy male student population. One of the reasons that

831
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: that was one of the reasons I went because I

832
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: stupidly was like, oh, there'll be a lot of dudes

833
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: Forrenna pick from. And when I first got there, it

834
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: was also kind of my I didn't go to an

835
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: all girls school, but this was my first like I'm

836
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: on the hunt and there's all these guys. I was

837
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: the only female on my dorm floor, and I did

838
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: feel kind of a pressure, like I'm the only woman here.

839
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: I gotta fit in, I gotta be cool, and I

840
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: wanted all the dudes, who were generally kind of nerdy

841
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: to accept me and to think that I was cool.

842
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 1: And I remember like being proud of the fact that

843
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: all these men were I thought I was cool for

844
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: my freshman year, but that quickly went away just because

845
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: many failures and dating many failures. This isn't work ging,

846
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: This isn't for me. But I think it helps that

847
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 1: your an It don't really helps us understand that being

848
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: friends with the guys just to be friends with the

849
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: guys is not the way to do it. I mean,

850
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: if you click with them, that's one thing, but we

851
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: shouldn't be trying to force ourselves to be seen as

852
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: worthy of their friendship or something because we think it's

853
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: going to be make us somehow more powerful than like

854
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: being with a bunch of friends. There are women. And

855
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: I say this as someone who has a lot of

856
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: male friends. It's a huge red flag to me when

857
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: someone says they don't like hanging out with women, because

858
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, women are awesome. They are. I left college,

859
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: the friends I still stay in touch with are almost

860
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: all women, which from a school that is seventy male.

861
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: I'm glad I found I found a group. They were

862
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 1: read and the nerdy. Actually I was kind of the

863
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,879
Speaker 1: nerd in the whole group. But again, I mean, that's

864
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: so perfect because you can establish relationships, whether they're platonic

865
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,280
Speaker 1: or romantic, on other things other than shared interests. Shared

866
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: interests or not the only thing that generates a good vibe,

867
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: but the relationship, whether it's a friend or whatever. And

868
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: so the fact that you are the nerd in your group,

869
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: you guys click on things that are not related to

870
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: your interests. Yeah, yeah, we made it work. Yeah, you

871
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 1: made it work. We did. And I had a friend

872
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: who this next part that we're going to talk about.

873
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,760
Speaker 1: It makes me think of her because she went into

874
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 1: sports announcing and met her in college and she's so cool.

875
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,879
Speaker 1: But females working in the sports world, they're very much

876
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: as this pressure to be a cool girl. And she

877
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: has talked about that, like just two, you have to

878
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: be that because it is sort of seen as this

879
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: male world, like we let you into our world, you

880
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: better not annoy us. Yeah, you have to fit into

881
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 1: that right. As a woman involved in sports, it's almost

882
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: a choice that you make to get ahead in your career.

883
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 1: I would imagine to be cool girl, because you know,

884
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: if you're not cool girl. I'm really reminded of Jamal

885
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 1: Hill on ESPN, who you know, I think she's a

886
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: cool girl, but she makes noise about white supremacy, she

887
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 1: calls out sexism, she calls out Trump. All of these

888
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: things are pretty unchill, And I think that the expectation

889
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: is is that if you're a woman in the sports world,

890
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: you're just gonna look pretty, say sports stuff and keep

891
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: your mouth shut. And she doesn't do that. And I

892
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: think that there's probably a lot of pressure for women

893
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,320
Speaker 1: in sports to perform a very particular kind of femininity

894
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: and if they don't have their career be threatened. Sports

895
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: writer Julie DeCaro writes women who work in sports are

896
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: supposed to be hot but not high maintenance, outspoken but

897
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: not political, knowledgeable but not so much as a threat

898
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: in the guys. The sports media landscape, it's littered with

899
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: cool girls trying to master this high wire act. Some

900
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: are cool girls for career advancement, some are cool girls

901
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: simply to survive. Either way, the cool girl is more

902
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: accepted by fans than other embodiment of women in sports media.

903
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: Women working in sports media who speak openly about equality

904
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: and feminism are harder to sell in public. As one

905
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 1: man in the industry said to me, no one wants

906
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,720
Speaker 1: a buzzkill on their TV, and it's probably not difficult

907
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: to imagine how it goes over when a woman tells

908
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 1: a male colleague that their sexist jokes and objectification of

909
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: women in the workplace are inappropriate, and so the cool

910
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 1: girl thrives, often leaving a trail of regular girl bodies

911
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 1: in her wake. I wonder if no one wants a

912
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: buzz kill on their TV, if he'd say that about

913
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: a male sports reporter. There are so many male buzz

914
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: kills on my TV, so many of them, so many,

915
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 1: and like, it's just fine. I put up with it. Yeah,

916
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: Dennis Miller, Yeah, I think I just think the bar

917
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,760
Speaker 1: is so much lower, not just in sports, but in general.

918
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: The bar is so much lower for men for so

919
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: many things, obviously, but I think it's especially true for

920
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: sports journalism. Yeah, because Dennis Miller sucks and he ruined

921
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: Monday Night Football. You heard it here first. He can

922
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: at me, Dennis Miller bridget it's not happening. He has

923
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: a podcast. Now, this could be our new podcast feud.

924
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we're always looking for a podcast, but in

925
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: a you know, chill it'll be a chill feud. Yeah,

926
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: we were like a laid back feud here at stuff

927
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: I've never told you. There's some really great advice for

928
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:58,839
Speaker 1: not feeling chapped by needing to be a cool girl

929
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: from Man Repellers Hailey Naman. A friend sent an unflattering

930
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: picture of her to a group chat, and it bombed

931
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: her out, but she played it off like it didn't

932
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: bother her quote. When I finally revisited the text of

933
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: my mind, I felt so frustrated, not as the friend

934
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: who sent it. It wasn't out of malice, but at

935
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: all the little factors that made my response feel so familiar.

936
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,359
Speaker 1: I felt heavy with the realization that he could never

937
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: truly understand why text like that couldn't make me feel powerless.

938
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 1: It was a dark path to go down an arguably

939
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 1: benign exchange, but on that particular day, for no particular reason,

940
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: I felt so tired of playing it cool. In the

941
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: weeks since that day, I've been thinking a lot about

942
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: that voice in my head, the one that urges me

943
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: to be amenable, to play it just the right amount

944
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,240
Speaker 1: of casual, to respond in a way i've deemed stable

945
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 1: and correct, instead of the way that feels most honest.

946
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: It's baked into most of us, the shying away from

947
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: overly emoting. I don't know where we learned it, but

948
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 1: it seems we've all privately agreed it's kind of lame

949
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: to appear to anything excited, happy, hutchy, sensitive, angry, whatever.

950
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: In case you need reminding, because evidently I still do

951
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 1: from time to time, you can safe off to that

952
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: voice whenever you want to. You don't have to play

953
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 1: it cool. You don't have to act like the person

954
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: that said that thing didn't hurt you. You don't have

955
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: to act like you're confident when you don't feel like it,

956
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: or like you're fine when really you're boiling. Over. If

957
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,399
Speaker 1: someone says something that makes you feel small, you don't

958
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: have to pack it in your proverbial lunch box and

959
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 1: carry it around in your gut. That doesn't have to

960
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: be your responsibility. Your response can be the messy one

961
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,839
Speaker 1: that makes everyone uncomfortable, even you. Sometimes that might feel

962
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: better than protecting your reputation. It could be worth it,

963
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: the freedom of turning off all those filters. I love

964
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: that so much. So first of all, I love that

965
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 1: it's the exchange starts with something that she admits is benign,

966
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 1: because we all have moments where someone says something and

967
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 1: they didn't mean it in that way, but we it

968
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: for whatever reason. It hits us in that way, and

969
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: it hurts us. It makes us feel powerless, it tears

970
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 1: us down, and the cool girl thing to do would

971
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: just be a laugh at off. But it's so much

972
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 1: more authentic to be true to yourself and if that,

973
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: if something hurt you, or you have a feeling about something,

974
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 1: it's okay to express it, and it's okay to be

975
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 1: the person that makes everyone uncomfortable and reminded of this exchange.

976
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 1: In Amy Poehler's autobiography Yes Please, She's in the writer's room,

977
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 1: the Jimmy fallon and they're goofing around and she does

978
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: some bit and he says to her in a joking manner,

979
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: I don't think that's cute at all. And what she

980
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,919
Speaker 1: does in that moment is she's in a swivel chair.

981
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: She spins around, and she says, I don't care if

982
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: you think it's cute. That exchange. She describes it as

983
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: the whole room getting uncomfortable, but that it was important

984
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: to her to remind her coworker that she's not there

985
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: to be cute, and even though he was joking around

986
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:43,399
Speaker 1: with her and didn't mean it like that and blah

987
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: blah blah, she chose to be authentic to how she

988
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 1: felt and call it out. Probably made her look like

989
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: the weird crazy girl, and that's okay. Yeah, we're all

990
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: like that. Sometimes we're all like that. Sometimes. I also

991
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: think it's interesting to note that cool girl maybe something

992
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: that we sort of grow out of, an age out of,

993
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 1: because I certainly was more hung up on being a

994
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: cool girl in my teens and twenties, but now that

995
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: I'm in my thirties, yeah I'm not a cool girl,

996
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 1: and I'm actually really uncool and unchilled, and I want

997
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: to have a long conversation about what this means, and

998
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,320
Speaker 1: I want to send you a long ass text. I

999
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: was like, well, I know I said it was done,

1000
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: but I have eight more texts. You know, as I've

1001
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,280
Speaker 1: gotten older that you know, the sports writer we quoted

1002
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: earlier called it a high wire act, and as I've

1003
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 1: gotten older, I just don't have the patience for the

1004
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 1: high wire act. If I'm not cool, I'm not cool.

1005
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 1: And if I'm not chill, I'm not chill. But sometimes

1006
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 1: I am upset or being emotional or having a response

1007
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 1: to something or you know, being too much of something,

1008
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: too needy, too loud to this. To that, I've accepted

1009
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: it about myself and I only want people in my

1010
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:54,879
Speaker 1: orbit who are okay with it too. Yeah, it's exhausting

1011
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: to to be the cool girl. And I think once

1012
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 1: you've done it for a while and you realize how

1013
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: exhausting it is, kind of wipe your hands of it

1014
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 1: and hopefully become more comfortable with being who you are,

1015
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: and that who you are is a person who has

1016
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 1: a multidimensional, complicated person that cannot be pinned down into

1017
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 1: one stereotype or exactly this jez Bell Piece, I think

1018
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 1: makes that point so beautifully she writes, But that girl,

1019
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: she grows up and learns that it's better to be

1020
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: real than to be cool, and without suggesting, the end

1021
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 1: result is for everybody to pair off and settle down.

1022
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 1: Most people do mellow with age, and they do settle

1023
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 1: just more easily into their own complexities, more easily into

1024
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 1: something less prone to type casting, which is probably why

1025
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,280
Speaker 1: I don't know a single woman in her thirties, forties

1026
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: or beyond who is all like the cool girls I

1027
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:49,720
Speaker 1: knew in my twenties and still see from a distance

1028
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: at this age. They're serious and fun, masculine and feminine,

1029
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:59,800
Speaker 1: simple and complicated, transparent and elusive. You know, just people.

1030
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 1: And I think that really nails it. That we are

1031
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:08,240
Speaker 1: just people. Women are just people, and we're complex. We

1032
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: we are vast, we contain multitudes. We need to be

1033
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:15,959
Speaker 1: allowed to express and have comfort with the full range

1034
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 1: of who we are, whether that's messy and annoying, and

1035
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 1: it's calling you at three am after you already went

1036
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: to bed, and they said they were done with the conversation,

1037
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,320
Speaker 1: but they had one word thing they just got to

1038
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 1: add real quick, or they're drinking a beer, right, Like,

1039
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: we need to be okay with whatever that expression looks like.

1040
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 1: And I think that I want, I want women to

1041
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: feel okay with the vast range of their expressions of

1042
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: self and not feel like parts of themselves are less

1043
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 1: okay because they're too much, too annoying, too naggy, to this,

1044
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 1: to that. To be authentic to who we are and

1045
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 1: be and be okay with it. Yeah, I remember in

1046
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: this acting class I took once my my professor's head.

1047
00:54:55,440 --> 00:55:00,439
Speaker 1: He's always found that women at first when they're to acting,

1048
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: I have a lot of trouble expressing anger and sadness.

1049
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: And he was saying, I think it's because they're socialized

1050
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 1: not to express that, and he would have like these

1051
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: exercises for women to try to try to get more

1052
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: comfortable expressing that, which is I think true that we are. Yeah,

1053
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 1: we have kind of these fears societally around women being

1054
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:29,800
Speaker 1: too emotional and but also personally as you get older,

1055
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, looking back at the person I

1056
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: was when I was twenty, she very different, learned a lot. Yeah,

1057
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 1: so hopefully we can we can sort of move away

1058
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: from this thing and the need to be this type

1059
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: of Girl. I couldn't have put it better myself. I

1060
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 1: think as a recovering cool girl, I think you put

1061
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 1: it very, very accurately, and I think it's interesting to

1062
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: note that we've seen cool girl in books like Gone Girl,

1063
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:05,320
Speaker 1: and in movies and on the big screen and small screen.

1064
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 1: Now we're actually seeing it in music. Swedish pop singer

1065
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 1: Tove Low actually recorded a song called cool Girl inspired

1066
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: by the concept. So you want to give you a

1067
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: little taste of that at the end of the show, yes,

1068
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 1: But for now, now that we've really dissected this cool

1069
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 1: girl thing, um, let's let's read some listener mail. Okay,

1070
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 1: So this first one is from Allison. Allison wrote, I

1071
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: just wanted to reach out and say thank you for

1072
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 1: your podcast hacking the issues around social media, diet fads

1073
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:44,320
Speaker 1: and their link to eating disorders. As someone who suffered

1074
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 1: from anorexia nervosa for over a decade, I couldn't have

1075
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 1: agreed more with what you said. I know for a fact,

1076
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,720
Speaker 1: when I was consumed with my eating disorder, no amount

1077
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: of health warnings negative reviews are bad publicity could have

1078
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 1: discouraged me from buying anything that would help me lose weight,

1079
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: especially if the hot celebrity was endorsing it. Kim Kardashian's

1080
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 1: post was disgustingly ignorant, and I can guarantee many sick

1081
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 1: and vulnerable girls have now bought those stupid lollipops because

1082
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,240
Speaker 1: of it. I know I would have another thing, Bridget,

1083
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 1: When you said that your cousins as young as ten

1084
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: are worried about their weight. That hit me hard. I

1085
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: work in child protection and have a lot of traumatized

1086
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 1: children in my care. One little girl already sticks her

1087
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 1: fingers on her throat and throws up her meals when

1088
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: she thinks her belly is to quote round. She's five

1089
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 1: years old. The system from her mother being so obsessed

1090
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 1: with social media influences and diet fads that she's displayed

1091
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 1: at this unhealthy behavior in front of her daughter, who

1092
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: is now doing it too. I think goes to show

1093
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 1: that these kids don't even have to be seeing the

1094
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 1: content such as Kim Kardashian's lollipop at to be deeply

1095
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 1: affected by its second hand Sorry for their aunt. This

1096
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 1: topic hits close to home, but I really commend you

1097
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: for talking about it. It really isn't discussed enough. Yeah,

1098
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: it didn't even occur to me that you can sort

1099
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 1: of you can sort of have second hand. Yeah, yeah,

1100
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: I think it's more powerful than then we realize, and

1101
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: it's art's really young, and we certainly do you need

1102
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 1: to talk about it more so, thank you so much

1103
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: for sharing that with us. Allison Ivy wrote, I was

1104
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 1: born to a Mexican immigrant mother who crossed the border

1105
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: illegally in her childhood to meet up with my grandmother,

1106
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 1: who had already gotten legal permission to be here in California.

1107
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: My mom came from a tiny village. Her biological father

1108
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 1: did not stick around to be part of the family.

1109
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: What's more, my own father was a pretty abusive presence

1110
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: in her and my and my brother's life until she

1111
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 1: left him. Throughout her life, my mother worked tirelessly and

1112
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 1: obtained her master's in business and retired at the super

1113
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 1: young age of fifty eight. I watched that boss woman

1114
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: bust her ass each day of my life and never

1115
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: once missed having a dad in my own life because

1116
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 1: of the presence of such a strong female. My mother

1117
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: in law shares a similar story to my own mother,

1118
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: and that she fled Iran during the major regime shift.

1119
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 1: All said, I've had some pretty amazing women in my

1120
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: life and my own journey. I adopted a pretty classic

1121
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: view of feminism. Do what you want, get yourself educated,

1122
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: you don't need no man, and you are not your

1123
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 1: looks kind of thing. I am now twenty nine, may read,

1124
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 1: and have a two and a half year old boy,

1125
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 1: and I am six months pregnant with a girl. Congrats.

1126
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 1: I am now a sixth grade teacher and finishing up

1127
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 1: my masters and reading and language arts. For all intents

1128
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: and purposes, I have conquered many of the things I

1129
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 1: wish to conquer. I'm traveled to a career to simply

1130
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: growing philosophically and as a human being. But in the

1131
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 1: last few years I realized, hey, I'm not cut out

1132
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 1: for this kind of life. So upon the birth of

1133
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 1: my second child, I'll be staying home to raise my kids,

1134
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 1: grow our food, and care for our chickens in a

1135
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 1: tiny town with a population of under a thousand folks. Now,

1136
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 1: the point of all this is to say, I have

1137
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 1: bumps along the journey where I do question my own

1138
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: fulfillment of this feminist role. I think am I setting

1139
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 1: women back because I want to be barefuted, in pregnant,

1140
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 1: in the kitchen, so to speak. I grapple with this

1141
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 1: question at least once a week. But here's what I've

1142
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 1: come to believe. I never needed to prove anything to

1143
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 1: myself or anyone else. Each day my decisions are guided

1144
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: by the principle that each base I come across is

1145
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 1: a beautiful one, the sort of being of love and reverence.

1146
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 1: And in those small exchanges of positivity, smiles at a

1147
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 1: coffee shop, conversations with strangers, a little help for a

1148
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 1: homeless friend, that is my feminism. Maybe it's unpopular to

1149
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: say this, but I don't feel my brand of feminism

1150
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: is defined by my job or lack thereof, or what

1151
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 1: I can or cannot do. I've got all the ingredients

1152
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 1: of a childhood with an abusive dad and a strong

1153
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: mom that set me up to be the poster child

1154
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: for classic feminism. But in my own journey, I realized

1155
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 1: that just focusing on myself and loving the earth and

1156
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 1: all its members, regardless of the makeup of my chromosomes,

1157
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 1: has made me the best feminist I can be. I've

1158
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 1: this email kicks ass. First of all, I want to

1159
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 1: meet your your mom. She sounds like a badass boss.

1160
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 1: You sound like a badass. I love this, I love

1161
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: this this, I love this. Yeah, No, I think that's

1162
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: I think that's great. And we do have. As we

1163
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: talked about in an episode on bad feminism, there's all

1164
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 1: this anxiety about like meeting this this kind of impossible

1165
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: bar to call yourself a feminist, But to me, it's

1166
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 1: all of equality and having the choice. So like staying

1167
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 1: at home, if if that's a choice that you want

1168
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 1: to make, that's a perfectly legitimate, fine choice. And you've

1169
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 1: got chickens and kids. We're definitely coming over with those chickens.

1170
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 1: She kind of articulates something that I've often kind of

1171
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 1: felt in my bones but never really said or never

1172
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 1: had the words to express, this idea that your social

1173
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: and political ideology can be expressed through very small acts

1174
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 1: throughout a quiet life while lived. And so you know,

1175
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 1: whether that's being kind to a neighbor on the street

1176
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 1: who needs help, whether that's smiling at someone, just taking

1177
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 1: time out of your day to be a light to someone,

1178
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 1: that can be an expression of your feminism. And it's

1179
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 1: it's quite powerful. It's seems very small, but it's quite

1180
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 1: powerful because you really never know. Not to make myself

1181
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 1: sound like an overemotional, unchilled girl. But you know, I've

1182
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,439
Speaker 1: had those times where I am hanging on my thing

1183
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: thread and someone smiles at me, and it's like, it's

1184
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:00,760
Speaker 1: just what I needed to remind myself and humanity, you know,

1185
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:03,080
Speaker 1: remind myself that the world is a good place. Is

1186
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 1: someone saying something nice to me, or you know, or

1187
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 1: witnessing someone else do it. You know, I was witnessed

1188
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:11,080
Speaker 1: the kind of kid that you would look at on

1189
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 1: the street and think like, oh, this kid's up to

1190
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 1: no good. Stop and help an old woman with her

1191
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 1: groceries upper stairs. I thought, God, you know that that

1192
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 1: was really like the reminder I needed. I was so

1193
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 1: sort of feeling so down about humanity and I witnessed this,

1194
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 1: this kind act, and that made me want to do

1195
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 1: a kind act. So you really never know these small

1196
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: things the big impact they're having. And I just love

1197
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 1: that Ivy puts it that way. I absolutely agree. And

1198
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:40,600
Speaker 1: thanks to both of them for writing in. You two

1199
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 1: can write us. Our email is mom Stuff at how

1200
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. On social media, we're on Twitter

1201
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: at Mom's Stuff and on Instagram at Mom's Stuff Stuff.

1202
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 1: You got really close, You got really close. I shouldn't.

1203
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 1: You got really close. You got really close. Okay, keep

1204
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 1: keep this in, Dylant, keep this in. You didn't go

1205
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 1: to my rescue, but I learned a valuable I was like, no,

1206
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 1: let her do it. It's the only way I'll learned.

1207
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 1: It's the only way I'll learned. Um, thanks as always,

1208
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 1: her producer, Dealan Fagan, and um, Cathleen Quillian. Uh and yeah,

1209
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: I think, well this is this is it from us? Yeah,

1210
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 1: take it away to blow. Michael girl, Michael girl, nice cold?

1211
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 1: Oh my eyes are you boy? Michael girl. Mom, Michael girl,

1212
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 1: nice cold, my eyes. You don't like, but you still

1213
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 1: want to keep bum