WEBVTT - The Whistling, Part 4 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.360 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:14.680 Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.400 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:21.000 we're back with part four of our series about Whistling. 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:23.200 This episode is going to be a little weird today 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:28.440 because we literally already recorded this episode and then lost 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:32.680 the whole thing to a technical glitch. Rob I'm to 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:35.640 understand that as I was talking when we were recording 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.000 this episode the first time, Uh, it was just constantly 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.920 making the sounds of hell in your ears and can 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.320 you describe the terror and the anguish um. It was 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.240 kind of like your dialogue was an a fix twin 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:51.920 remix the entire time, and so at first it was 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:53.960 I was like, Okay, I can I can put up 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:56.760 with this. Uh, this is fine. We've already gone so 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:58.520 far into the episode we should just you know, finish 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.440 it out. By the end of it. It was kind 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:03.840 of headache inducing, but I was like, well, at least 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:06.679 we got the episode. Uh, this is just audio distortion 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:08.760 that I'm hearing. It's not going to transfer over to 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:13.199 the recorded finished product. Sadly it did, and so here 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:15.800 we are. It's the worst. Yeah. We were like, well, 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:17.959 at least it won't be on the actual audio, and 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:22.320 then it was and so here we are. Okay, so 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:24.880 so this is this is take two. Yeah, it could 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:27.880 could have been much worse, So no big deal. Hey, 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:30.800 looking on the bright side, we got a rehearsal in there. 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:33.759 How often do we have a rehearsal for a podcast episode? 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:35.959 So I think it's gonna be stronger because of that, 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:37.679 do you think? So? I was like, is it going 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:40.000 to make the episode better or worse? I really don't know. 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:44.679 Well we'll see, we'll see better better, Okay. Alright, so 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:47.960 we're picking up in this series about whistling. Uh let's see, 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:50.760 what do we talk about in the previous episodes. Yeah, 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.320 so we're picking up where we left off from the 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:58.240 last Whistling episode, which was Whistling Part three, regarding superstitions 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:01.760 and beliefs concerning whistle ing. We were talking about whistling 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.720 as an ill omen at sea, as a potential mark 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:10.720 of witchcraft, and women has bad theater luck in England 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:14.080 and much more. Uh So we're going to continue this 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:19.200 journey through folklore and mythology concerning whistling, and we're going 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:22.280 to be referencing some of what we covered in another 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:27.480 previous episode about Chinese transcendental whistling, in which a specialized 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:32.959 Dallast form of whistling was almost like meditation, but was 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.760 also said to give one both insight and perhaps even 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:39.880 power over the energy of things in the world. So 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:43.000 once more I'm going to be referencing that excellent Whistling 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:46.120 and Antiquity paper by A. V. Van ste Kellenberg, but 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.640 also some other sources. Now, according to Edie Edwards, in 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:52.280 the two thousand nine paper The Principles of Whistling, a 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:57.600 ten dynasty text called shall Chi says that whistling simply 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:01.120 calls out to all spirits good or add and st. 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:06.840 Kellenberg summarizes, this is kind of a supernatural neutrality concerning whistling. 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:11.400 So whistling isn't something that is used by bad people 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.600 or necessarily used by good people. It's just it's this 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:19.160 thing that that signals out into the world around us, 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:23.360 into the unknown, and you know, you could potentially attract 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:25.400 the attention of things you don't want to attract the 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:29.800 attention of, but it also could be resident basically harmless. 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:33.040 It kind of depends on the circumstances. Yeah, the Rhapsody 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:35.840 on Whistling, which was a text we cited in a 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.040 previous episode. It talks about whistling having a kind of 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:43.720 withdrawing or distancing power on the whistler. It says, you know, 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:47.160 like the whistling gentleman sort of distances himself from the 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:50.640 things of the world and lets out a long drawn whistle. Yeah, 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:52.680 and that's a thread we're gonna definitely come back to. 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:55.480 But but first I wanted to add another note on 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.200 whistling in Chinese history. So first of all, you know, 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:02.760 anytime we're talking about Chinese history, uh, Chinese culture covers 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:06.240 a great deal of territory, both in terms of distance 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.920 and in terms of years. Uh. So you know, it's 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:13.000 it's it's hard to say with any certainty, like this 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.680 is the traditional Chinese view of it versus another thing. 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:19.680 But mainly I don't want to imply here that that 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:23.800 whistling was just something that Dallas sorcerers engaged in. I 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:25.719 was looking at the paper by Julung Sue from two 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:29.840 thousand six titled Whistling and It's Magico Religious Tradition A 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:33.880 comparative perspective, and this points out that there are han 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:38.159 dynasty accounts of women whistling for both sorrow. Uh, and 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:42.520 this seems in some cases tap into this idea of 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:46.360 sighing as well. Um, again, look at thinking back to 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.680 previous episodes where we've discussed whistling and it's similarity to 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:54.920 other nonlinqual linguistic sounds that we make, other breath based 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:59.359 sounds that can be used to communicate something or to 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.880 get somebody's attention. Yeah, and we were talking about cases 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:07.880 where sometimes it's maybe difficult to uh precisely translate a 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.600 word because a word could be interpreted as meaning like 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.760 whistling or could mean hissing or some other kind of 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:17.640 controlled expulsion of breath. There's sort of some blurry nous 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:21.800 in the the breath based lexicon. Now, according to Sue here, 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:24.719 it's not just for sorrow. There are also accounts of 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:29.000 women whistling out of happiness or joy. It does seem 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:32.840 like it is linked to traditions of whaling in some cases, uh, 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.480 you know, the sort of whaling one might might might 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.120 engage in, say at a grave, that sort of thing. 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:44.160 But also not just women in this. In other sources 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:46.919 as well, even the Yellow Emperor is said to whistle 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:51.400 but the terminology here might actually mean hiss or it 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:54.560 might mean a sigh. And in the Classic of Mountains 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.040 and Seas, the queen mother uses a whistle as a 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:01.920 kind of battle cry to just fly her for off city. Uh. So, 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:05.360 it's kind of a wide spectrum of possible uses for 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:10.040 the for the whistle, even within Chinese tradition here now, 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:13.240 Sue also points out that while yes, in English customs 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:16.080 and Western customs, there are a lot of these superstitions 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:20.160 against women whistling, particularly uh and we don't really see 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.000 this in Chinese traditions, though it is sometimes seen as 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:27.400 ominous in general whistling due to the connection between whistling 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:31.400 and various death rituals and you know, and attracting the spirits. 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:36.080 But it is more inherently magical and not gendered. Sue 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.400 also share some other examples from from Western traditions, you know, 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:42.280 for a comparative experience here, but they point out here 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:46.039 quote the Germans believe that a woman's whistling will make 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:49.839 the angels weep and the devil's rejoice. This is this 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:53.080 would be a fantastic basis for a German metal band, 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.760 all female metal band that just employs whistling instead of singing. 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:00.200 Now that's a that's a question to what a scent? 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:05.000 Has whistling been used in metal? The metal scene has 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:08.480 come to encompass a lot of different sounds and ideas, 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:11.680 but I don't know if they've gotten around whistling, have they? Well, 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.720 what's the metal version of the rule thirty four ideas? 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:16.760 Kind of like, if you can imagine it, there is 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.400 a metal a metal band of it, right, I guess 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:21.400 it depends on what you classify as metal too, Like 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:26.040 are the Scorpions metal? I don't know, probably not, probably not. Now. 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:30.800 Sue also shares that, among various Chinese minorities, whistling while 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.280 you work, as in you know, snow white and the 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:36.680 song that the Dwarfs sing, whistling while you work, at 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:40.600 least in the field was thought to to summon demons 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.640 to damage crops, or it could summon demons to damage crops, 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:47.280 so it was discouraged. This Sioux Stresses does not seem 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:50.360 to be linked to, say Dallas ideas regarding whistling, but 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:54.679 is instead rooted in particular folk traditions. Now here's another 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.840 really interesting one that that Sue brings up. Sue shares 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:03.600 an example from Mythrayism, So Mythrayism. For sci fi fans 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:05.200 out there, some of you might be familiar with this 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:10.880 religion because you may have watched the really excellently weird 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:15.320 HBO Max sci fi series Raised by Wolves, in which 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.360 one of the two factions that's going out into space 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:23.680 and colonizing other worlds are are devoted, uh, myth Rayists, 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:26.280 and you might you might well think, oh, this is 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:29.080 some sort of cool religion they made up for the show, 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.040 but it is not. It is this is a reference 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:36.720 to the Roman mystery cult of Mithras and in their 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:39.680 recorded rituals, and Joe, You're going to get into this 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:41.959 a little bit and talk about what what we mean 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:44.960 when we when we bring up the idea of recorded 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:49.240 rituals of of Mythraism. But supposedly there is a system 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.920 of whistling and tongue clicking that was used to attract 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:59.400 what Sue refers to as theeo morphics star deities, theeomorphic 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:05.160 meaning animal formed, so like beast beast forms of star gods. Yeah. 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.560 Now I haven't seen the show Raised by Wolves, but 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.440 I think I'm to understand you were saying that the 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.200 title there is a reference to like the myth about 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:17.040 the founding of Rome, the Romuliss and Rema story. Yeah, 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:19.400 that's right, that's that seems to be the direct reference 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.080 made there, and there are there's other references as well, 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.960 and just a lot of just sheer weirdness on top 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:26.880 of it. So if nothing else, it's a show that's 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.520 going to give you lots of strange imagry. It's kind 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:35.480 of like um Ridley Scott's continuation of the the Android 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.920 centered alien sequels or prequels that he was working on 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:43.559 m okay uh. So well, anyway, I love the idea 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:47.480 that the show would incorporate actual things about Mythrayism because 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.680 I've long thought we should do a series or at 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:54.080 leased an episode on Mythraism, because I find it really 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:58.040 interesting because it is a religion that clearly commanded an 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:02.520 enormous following and had huge cultural significance in the Roman Empire, 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.840 Like you can find the ruins of their underground temples 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:10.360 called mithri um uh and they're they're all throughout Roman settlements, 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:14.000 and yet we know way less about this religion than 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.600 one might assume. And one of the big reasons for 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:19.240 that is that as far as I understood, and I 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:22.440 guess the text that you just referred to, Uh, maybe 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:26.000 a counter example to this, but modern scholars generally thought, 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:31.120 we have basically no access to any primary literary sources 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.840 about the religion. So if it had religious texts, we 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:37.760 don't have any of them, and so what we know 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:39.959 about it we've had to try to like piece together 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:45.000 through detective work based on imagery and simple inscriptions and 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:49.800 archaeological clues and comments and references made by external writers 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.000 trying to say, hey, you know, this is what's going 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:56.440 on with mythraism. So for a kind of hopefully interesting analogy, 0:10:56.600 --> 0:11:01.400 imagine trying to understand what chris Ganity was if it 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:05.440 like mostly died out and disappeared in the fourth century 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:08.000 or so, and we did not have any of the 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.480 writings of the New Testament or any other writings by 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.760 Church fathers or any other early Christians, and we were 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:19.480 trying to reconstruct what Christianity was based entirely on like 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:24.840 imagery and artifacts and what other external writers said about it. 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:29.320 So it's a really fascinating problem. And one of the 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:33.520 most common images in Roman Mythraism is apparently an important 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:37.520 scene from their mythology of the god Mithrus slaughtering some 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:42.360 kind of divine bull. But there's another interesting complication here too, 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:45.760 which is that there is a pre Roman Persian cult 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:50.400 of Mithrus or or Metra, which is a Zoroastrian or 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.840 pre Zoroastrian god of the Persian people who's kind of 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.000 a solar deity of justice, who I think was associated 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:01.160 with contracts and the honoring of bargains. And then later 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.760 you get this widespread Roman mystery cult that seems to 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:08.960 be based on an appropriated version of that deity. And 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.720 of course we know the Romans loved absorbing and reprocessing 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.360 other cultures gods, you know, like the main Roman pantheon 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:20.199 is mostly a photocopy of the Greek. And then you've 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.840 got the Persian Mithras becoming the Roman savior god of 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.559 some kind, and even the way you can think about 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:30.480 a Jewish messianic figure in Jesus and the original context 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:34.680 of monotheistic Judaism rather quickly becomes a popular savior god 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.840 to people throughout the Empire who had been polytheists up 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:41.120 until the moment they converted to Christianity. So that whole 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:45.439 process is really interesting. But the idea of a text 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.320 of Mythraism was very interesting to me because I didn't 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:50.640 think we had one of these. But this is referring 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.240 to something called the myth rest Liturgy, which I think 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:57.880 is commonly dated to roughly the fourth century. But there's 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:04.120 dispute about whether it actually reflects original Mithraic theology or 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.480 whether it's some kind of later synthesis. Yeah, this is 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:11.080 the quote from it that Sue shares in the paper. Quote. 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.440 But after you have said the second prayer, where silence 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:18.240 is twice commanded, then whistle twice and clicked twice with 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.600 the tongue, and immediately you will see stars coming down 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.360 from the disc of the sun, five pointed in large 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:30.760 numbers and filling the whole air. But say once again, silence, silence, 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:35.600 whistle twice, click twice, and then shut up. Here come 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.400 the gods. Now coming back to we're talking earlier about 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:45.839 like scholars in the woods in Chinese history, Um, there 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.240 is this idea that comes up, Sue mentions, and we 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:51.800 see this in like the Han dynasty, for example, where 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:56.280 you would have Confucian scholars other reclusive scholars who would 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.520 whistle as a means of expressing disdain for the world 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:04.360 and or their absolute freedom. Uh so this is an 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.320 interesting concept, and it was also done by other classes 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:11.400 as well, uh, Sue writes. Quote in general, poets, hermits, 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:15.160 and people of all types in the Six Dynasties utilized 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:20.120 whistling to express a sense of untrammeled individual freedom, or 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:24.560 an attitude of disobedience to authority or traditional ceremony, or 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:28.880 to dispel suppressed feelings and indignation. Whistling was not limited 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.080 to a certain class, but was practiced by men from 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.280 all walks of life. I love this idea of whistling 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:37.600 as a kind of like middle finger to social customs 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.760 and authority. So it's like you might imagine, um, you know, 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:44.600 the behavior of Diogenes the cynic or something, just completely 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.840 behaving in inappropriate ways in public as a as an 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:52.400 expression of contempt for norms and authority. Yeah, I whistle, 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:55.440 I do what I want now. Another paper I looked 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.080 to when I was looking around for various superstitions, We 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.560 of course found superstitions regarding whistling at sea, but we 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.800 also find them in another interesting place below the surface 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:10.920 of the earth in mines. Oh yeah, and I hadn't 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:12.960 really thought about this, but this is apparently a big one. 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.880 Uh paper, I was looking at an older paper. This 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:20.400 is California Miners Folklore. This is from a two edition 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:27.160 of California Folklore Quarterly written by Wayland D. Hand And um, yeah, 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.160 it's it's it's a really interesting read. This one's out 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.280 there on the internet if anyone wants a deeper dive 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:37.880 into it. But uh, for example, he goes into the 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.720 fear of the Tommy Knockers in the Tunnels. Now, Rob, 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:46.320 I am only familiar with Tommy Knockers from the Stephen 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.600 King novel or actually I never read the novel. I 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.920 think I watched the made for TV movie adaptation of it, 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.560 which is quite bad, and I think Stephen King himself 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:59.920 regards that as a terrible book. But but I don't 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.640 know what the original reference here is in the book. 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.880 I think it's aliens. Yeah, I can never get very 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:11.200 far with the book. But not aliens here, No, but 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.400 it but it apparently refers to a fair variety of things, 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:16.600 and they're very haunting and they kind of I feel 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:20.360 like they also kind of connect to perhaps older European 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:24.280 ideas of creatures that live in the earth, getting into 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:28.440 you know, various ideas of dwarves and so forth. Yeah, 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.000 the Cobald. This is what Hand writes in the paper. 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:35.680 These denizens of the deep dark chambers of the earth 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:40.520 are conceived in different forms as disembodied spirits of dead 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:45.080 miners hovering in a working as patrons, or as little 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:49.640 men elf like be whiskered and wizzened. They are usually 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:53.480 thought of as benign, occasionally even assisting in the location 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.200 of ore bodies. If they are not so well disposed, 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:02.720 their conduct tends to be mischievous rather than malignant. Many 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:06.639 California miners, though not having themselves seen these creatures in person, 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:10.720 recall having seen small effigies of them made of clay 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:13.919 and set upon portal, sets to a tunnel or on 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:18.800 the lagging or elsewhere where their patronage is desired. So 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.600 I love that image of not only the idea that 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:26.280 there are these beings living elsewhere in the tunnels, but 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:30.400 there's this kind of uh we talked about a little, 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:32.600 you know, we were talking about when when people set 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.520 to see, when they return, when they're when seamen are 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.639 are out there on the waters there the newer religions 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.119 that they have taken to might be set aside for 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:44.439 the older ways the older gods, and here we have 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:50.639 this example of of California miners potentially having little altars 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:55.320 to to kind of dwarven Elvin beings in the minds. 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:59.400 That's too good. So Hand discusses some other ideas as well, 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.240 you know, the go some dead miners working in the tunnels. 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:07.960 Um also phantom white mules, headless mules, and strange lights. 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.280 Apparently he said that there weren't really that many creature 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:14.560 myths concerning the minds, though occasionally you would have like 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:16.600 a cat come down into the minds and would just 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:18.960 scare the b Jesus out of everybody, because it would 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:21.359 either way, I'm imagining, you know, the cat would get 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:25.680 down there, it would be lurking about, its eyes gleaming 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:29.360 and the light and just give everyone the proper spooks. 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:33.320 But there there were also these superstitions about about the 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:37.040 bad luck concerning well, first of all bringing women anywhere 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:40.600 near the cave, but also there was a widespread superstition 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:44.560 against anyone whistling down there, and it seems to be 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.919 sort of twofold. On one hand, there was a real 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:51.640 fear of vibrations in the caves, and so the there's 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.200 this idea that you know, shouldn't whistle because you don't 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:56.160 know what that's gonna do. You're gonna set up vibrations 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.399 that could potentially cause a cave in. But it also 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:03.879 seems inked to this older wider idea that if you're whistling, 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:07.560 you could draw in spirits and hand shares. A fun 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:11.880 little rhyme here quote whistle by night you'll bring the sprite. 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:15.199 Whistle by day you'll drive them away. And this is 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.280 not a sprite you want to bring, right, right, or 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:20.800 certainly you don't want them. You don't want anything going 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:22.520 on down there in the mind. You don't want you 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.280 don't want any spirits balking about. You don't want any 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.520 vibrations going wild. You want everything to just be as 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.600 safe and quiet as possible. Right, Okay, so this is 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:34.000 this is not like a friendly tinker bell. This would 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.040 be a sprite that's gonna maybe pollute your oar or 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.840 make a rock fall in your head or something. Yeah. Yeah, though, 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:40.320 I guess coming back to the idea of the Tommy 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:42.120 Knockers that it kind of comes back to the sort 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:44.520 of neutrality of spirits. Right. It's the idea that well, 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:49.399 there there, there are or maybe spirits around. Um, they 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:51.560 might do some bad things, they might do some good things. 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:55.320 We probably shouldn't call them. We shouldn't call an extra spirits, 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:57.439 and we should try and be on the on the 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:06.080 good side of any spirits that are present. Now, I 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:08.600 think all of the examples we've talked about so far 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:13.800 are superstitions. Uh. The the way that whistling relates to 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:17.359 monsters or spirits or dangerous entities is that it's something 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:21.280 humans could do that might in some cases attract them. 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:24.760 So you know, be careful about whistling because you might 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.520 get a monster on your tail. But I was thinking about, 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:31.200 are there are there stories of monsters that themselves whistle 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.720 or are you or do something like whistling? Yeah, I 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.040 was curious about this. I first of all, I turned 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:39.880 to Carol Rose, who has two Extraordinary volumes, one about 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:42.200 monsters and giants and so forth, and the others more 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.639 about fairies and sprites. And there's some overlap between the 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:47.920 two books, but they are also things in each book 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:51.040 that are not covered by the other, and so there 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:53.040 were at least a couple of examples that stood out. 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:57.040 One of them is an interesting monster of the people 0:20:57.280 --> 0:21:01.480 of the Zingu River in Brazil, and this creature was 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:05.920 called minata karaia, and these are said to have been 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:09.080 giants that were as tall as the trees, with fruit 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:12.800 growing out of their armpits, which the giants then consumed 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:17.600 to sustain themselves. So it sounds like they weren't themselves dangerous. 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.080 They weren't like eating humans. But they're big, tall giants. 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:22.240 So if they're coming your way, you want to know 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:24.280 to get out of their out of their way. And 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.200 the way you knew this is because the male giants 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:31.560 had a hole in the top of their head and 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:35.480 it emitted a high pitched whistle when they moved. This 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:38.680 is a good monster. Okay, so we got armpit autophagi. 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:41.480 They eat the fruit of their own armpits and their 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:48.280 heads whistle. Yeah. Now another monster that Rose shares here 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.600 is uh is a Russian creature that I think we 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:54.440 might well describe as a sort of a harpy, or 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:58.119 at least a harpy in them the way that modern 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:00.600 people will think of the harpy a kind of bird 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:03.240 human hybrid, though in this case I think they're They 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:06.600 tend to be more male than female. And its name 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:11.480 is Solve Rochtmas and in Russian folklore it's said to 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:16.080 give a piercing whistle and this whistle will kill anyone 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:18.679 who hears it, and then the monster will come and 0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:23.280 rob your corpse, rob your corps. So it's looking for money. Yeah, 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:26.800 it's not not here to eat you either. It's interested 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:29.399 in one thing, and it's whatever money you got on 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:35.200 you checking your armpits for fruit. Yeah. But here in 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:38.000 it's kind of an interesting theme because the next monster 0:22:38.040 --> 0:22:40.640 I wanted to mention also is not going to kill you. 0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:43.840 This one just wants to scare you real bad. Uh. 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:47.400 This is yokai. I was looking around in Yokai traditions 0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:50.000 because I'm thinking, well, that's just such a rich font 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:53.720 of creatures and beings that it makes sense that there'd 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:55.800 be something out there that whistled. And the one that 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:59.879 I found some descriptions of it that I found translated 0:22:59.880 --> 0:23:02.959 to of course mentioned whistling is something it does. Others 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:05.800 don't mention it, so um, I can't be one and 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:08.800 to present certain if this is something that is actually 0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:11.920 part of it or in a lot of these yokaia too, 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:15.040 they and when you get into modern ghost stories as well, 0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:17.560 like there's there's there, there's still kind of rich and alive, 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:19.840 so something's could added, and also some things could added 0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:26.680 in translation. But this one is called um Oa guru batari, 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:31.360 and its name apparently means nothing but blackened teeth, which 0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:34.480 already sounds pretty pretty amazing. So this is this is 0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:36.800 the way this yokai has encountered. She appears as a 0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:40.720 beautiful woman in a traditional wedding kimono, and I guess 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:42.800 you might see her at a distance, and in some 0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:45.320 cases as you get as your your interest and you 0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:47.879 move closer, she may whistle to get the attention of 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:51.720 single men. Other accounts say that she may speak in 0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:54.520 the voice of a loved one. Um others don't seem 0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:56.760