WEBVTT - Keith Carlock 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.440 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:17.560 My guest today is drummer Keith Carlog. Keith, how'd you 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:18.880 get the gig with Steely Dan? 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:25.439 I was living in New York and playing with a 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:29.160 guitar player by the name of Wayne Krantz, who an 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:34.040 incredible guitar player. We had a trio that we were 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.440 playing at the fifty five Bar in New York, this 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:43.040 little die bar every Thursday, and it was myself Tim 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:48.360 LeFave and on bass and Wayne Krantz on guitar. Wayne 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.639 had played with Steely Dan in ninety six on their 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:56.880 tour I think it was the Art Crimes tour, and 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:02.120 so they were already aware of his music, fans of 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:07.680 his music, and they came out to hear us on occasion. 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.039 Donald and Walter both came at various times to hear 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:17.240 the band, and at one point I remember Wayne telling 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.440 me you won't believe this man, but Donald wants to 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:22.360 play with us. He wants to sit in and play 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:25.840 Rose with us one night, and I was like, I 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:28.120 was freaking out. It was like, this is so cool. 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:34.560 And I think they got together and learned some of 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.080 the music together, some of the heads and things that 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:43.440 would would help to prepare or whatever. And so that's 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:46.800 it happened one night on a Thursday night, and it 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:52.240 was probably late nineties. I was I'd been to New 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:57.360 York maybe maybe a year and a half at that point. 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:00.320 I had moved from Texas where I went to Cool 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:06.080 and he played the entire night and I remember him 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:07.680 sitting right in front of me. It was a small 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:09.640 little club. I don't know if you know of it, 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:13.400 but it's a tiny little dive bar, but it's it's 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:16.320 got a lot of history and you know, kind of 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:20.640 a New York legendary place, you know, just where you 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:23.000 can just play music, play whatever you want, people come 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:28.240 and listen, and really great vibe there anyway, And I 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:31.799 think that night will Lee was on bass because Tim 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:35.400 was out of town, couldn't make the gig, so Willie 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:41.760 was playing bass, myself, Wayne and Donald on Rhodes. And 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.760 it was one of those pinch yourself moments for me, 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:47.919 where you know, I'm playing with three of my heroes, really, 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:52.880 you know, and you know, like I said, I'd only 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:54.800 been in New York for a little while, and so 0:02:55.639 --> 0:03:00.320 it was incredible, had a great time and and that 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:03.760 was it. And then later, you know, like I said, 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.560 Walter was also coming down to hear us from time 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:12.720 to time, and you know, never thought it would turn 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.840 into anything. I didn't know, but they invited us to 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:20.000 play or to come to their studio and record this band, 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:23.280 the Wayne Crench Trio. And it was a studio they 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:27.720 had at the time on the Upper East Side in 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:33.760 nineties somewhere and called River Sound. And we went in 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:38.960 and Donald and Walter were both there. They were kind 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:43.800 of more or less producing it. From what it seemed like, 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:48.480 we recorded all day long and we're getting some sounds 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:52.280 and I can remember working with Walter and some of 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:55.680 the drum sounds in the room and doing some tunings 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.400 things and changing some things and experimenting a little bit, 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:04.120 and and that was amazing, you know, just hanging with 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.040 them and getting to know them a little bit and 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:09.400 seeing how they work in the studio and just it 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:17.200 was it was incredible. And it was maybe I don't 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.320 know how much longer it had been a while they 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:25.320 were going in the studio to record a song for 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:30.080 Joni Mitchell tribute record, and they were recording the song 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:36.480 Carrie from Blue and they asked me to come in. 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.960 I got called from the contractor, and of course I 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:44.840 was geeking out, like, oh my god, it's crazy because 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.200 just to be asked, you know, is one thing, but 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:51.279 then if they actually use what you do, you know, 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:54.400 it's like a big feather in the cap for a musician, 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:58.279 you know, to be a part of a steely dan whatever, 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:04.719 you know. So we I remember we got the the 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:07.919 track that day, got the rhythm track. They were just 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:12.599 wanting to get the drums, nice and consistent, solid track 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:14.760 and then they could just build from there. But I 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.400 think we got a nice rhythm track with everyone playing. 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:23.760 I remember Donald playing roads, Walter was playing bass, wish 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.040 I could remember, and I think John Harrington was there 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:32.919 on guitar. Could have been Humocracken as well. Anyway, my 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:37.000 memory it's not perfect there, but it was. It was 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:41.680 an amazing session. I just I felt pretty good about it, 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:44.760 and they weren't. They were into it. They finished the 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:46.919 song out. I don't think that that it ended up 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:52.880 being used. I remember that song because I guess they 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.719 changed the ginger and the lyrics or something to fit 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.920 the mail that I found out she didn't like it. 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:01.640 I asked all about that at one time. I guess 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:03.480 she wasn't. She didn't like it, so they didn't use 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:08.359 it for the record. That song actually reappeared on the 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:11.240 internet after twenty years. It was I don't think it 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.240 was ever heard, and I found it and some people 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:16.880 posted it and I asked Donald about it, and he 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:20.839 told me that story that I don't think she liked that. 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:23.000 We changed the lyrics, you know, a little bit to 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.599 fit you know, a mail instead of an email point 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:32.400 of view or something like that. And then that was 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:39.040 my first experience recording with them for real, and you know, 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:41.440 if that was it, I was happy with that, you know, 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.480 that was that was incredible. Then, you know, I guess 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:51.279 it was another I don't know, another year or so 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:54.520 or less. They were going to do a new record, 0:06:56.000 --> 0:07:00.279 and they I think they really liked the process of 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.720 just coming in and getting the rhythm track and then 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.040 finishing it out, you know, finishing out the song right 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:11.240 away using the same rhythm section we would do. We 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:13.120 would come in and they asked me to record a 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:15.480 little bit more for this record. We'd come in and 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:21.160 do like two or three tracks at a time, and 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.400 they would you know, just basically trying to get a 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:27.640 nice rhythm track they could build from for this record 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:31.760 that would end up being everything must go that. I 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:34.200 can't remember what year it came out, maybe two thousand 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:39.680 and two or three. So it was one of those 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.080 things where I didn't know if I would get called back, 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:46.080 didn't know, you know, what to expect. But they kept 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:48.400 calling the same guys back, and it was turning into 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:50.360 a whole thing, a whole process where we would do 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.800 two or three songs at a time, go away, they'd 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.720 finish them out and then start again with another batch 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:03.280 of songs like that, and so that was that was great. 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:08.640 It was really just incredible, you know, just to be 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:12.920 a part of that in the studio. You know, they're 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.559 kind of known for bringing in rhythm section after rhythm 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:19.040 section and changing things up. This was, you know, the 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.280 first time in their history where they just kind of 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:25.320 stuck with one group of guys, you know, for the 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.960 core of the tracks. So that was pretty exciting to 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:33.080 be to be there as a part of that. And 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:37.240 then that we finished it out and you know, after 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:40.840 a course of many months, I remember nine to eleven 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:42.640 happening somewhere in the middle of that, and there was 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:48.520 a pause for a while, But I got a call 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:52.080 from Walter Becker before that they were going to go 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.000 out on the road in two thousand and three, and 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:58.120 he asked me if I wanted to to go tour 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:02.080 with them, and of course, you know, I was yes, 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:06.679 And so that's kind of how you know, that's kind 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:08.120 of how all it came about. It was just like 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.320 one step at a time and it just kind of 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:16.320 snowballed into this thing where we it just became you know, 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:18.600 kind of I guess comfortable working together, and we had 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:20.520 a lot of time to kind of get to know 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:24.920 one another and work together and feel things out. And 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:28.240 so they you know, asked me that was a two 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:32.040 thousand and three tour, and I've I've been on every 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:34.280 tour ever since since two thousand and three. 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:37.840 Let's go back to the making of the album. You know, 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.520 it's pretty much a mystery of what really went on 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:44.600 in the studio. You know, Walter ultimately produced Donald fagan 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:48.160 solo album. Who was in control and what was the process? 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:54.160 Like I would say they were both equally in control. 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:59.760 They would usually send me some kind of a demo 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.520 ahead of time, and if not, they'd play it in 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:06.760 the control room. Before we would go out and try 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:09.240 to track something. But it's most of the time I'd 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.600 get something ahead of time just to listen to. It 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:15.440 might have been something Donald just programmed in garage band 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:17.480 or something like that, you know, just just to have 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:23.560 the idea down. And there was always a chart, you know. 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:27.160 I went to music school, so I could read, so 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:33.400 that's good, and so I would just kind of prepare 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:35.560 mentally about what I might want to do and just 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.400 have some ideas. But we would go in and just 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:46.040 start tracking. I mean, and I think it wasn't a 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:49.360 lot of direction at first. It was just let's just 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.240 play and we would we would turn on the there 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.440 was alway it's always a click. We'd play along to 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:59.000 the click and get get a nice groove happening before 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.800 rolling tape, which I always thought, that's really cool, you know, 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:05.200 I had never done that before where you're you know, 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:08.120 usually it's just click in and go. We would just 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:10.080 kind of play for a while, kind of lock in 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.439 as a band, you know, until Donald was ready, and 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:16.920 then he lipped his hand and give the engineer the 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:19.880 go ahead to turn to start rolling tape. And then 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.800 we'd stopped for like one second and I'd counted off 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:27.480 and you know, your body's kind of into the groove 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:29.400 and everyone's kind of feeling it so that we can 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:34.920 just lock in from the start, which was pretty, uh 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:41.480 fascinating idea. But they were both you know, Donald was 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:45.720 playing roads well, Walter was playing bass. It felt like 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:47.720 we were just kind of a rhythm section, you know, 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.040 working through the tunes. And it was it was a 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.920 lot of fun. It just felt like musicians playing together. 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:59.840 It didn't feel like maybe what you hear, you know, 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:02.600 the stories back in the day where they're you know, 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.280 in there like heckling the musicians or something, you know, 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.560 and uh, it was. It was cool. It was maybe 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:12.720 they were just trying some you know, new ways of 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:16.360 recording and uh and it it was. It was great. 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.360 It was just great to be there, you know, part 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:19.000 of that whole thing. 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:22.480 Okay, So tell me about if let's assume you got 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:26.440 a demo, how would you literally prepare before you went in. 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.280 Just listening through? You know, I, if I don't have 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:34.720 a chart, I would try to just write down some 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:38.080 notes and things to remember, maybe some ideas in my 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:42.920 you know what, just what just pops up right away, 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.360 whatever my intuition might be that would sound good for 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:50.439 the track. And I really, as I got deeper into it, 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:55.360 I realized that, you know, if I just stayed pretty 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:59.360 much with what the demo was doing, that they were 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.640 they were with that, like they just wanted a consistent, 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:09.120 just bed of groove that they could they could build on. So, 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.000 you know, I don't always know, and I didn't know 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.280 what the vocal line might be or what they're going 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.520 to add to it later, you know, whether it's horns 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:22.720 or or other parts that might come in later. So 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:25.640 in a way, not knowing that you kind of you 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:31.320 don't want to get in the way of things while 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:33.800 you're recording. So I think what I what I realized 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:38.120 what that worked was just playing a nice you know, 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.800 just solid maybe start with what the demo was playing 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:44.760 drum wise, and just kind of pick out what that 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:46.960 groove is or what that pattern might be, and just 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.920 start there and then let it evolve if need be, 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:54.040 or whatever ideas that may they may have or I 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.920 may have. But for the most part it seemed to 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.600 work to just just kind of stay there and. 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.160 To what agree with the ultimately give you direction. 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.360 You know, just it was more always about feel. It 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:13.880 was always like it wasn't necessary a lot of particular 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.760 you know, it wasn't technical. It was just trying to 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.200 get the thing to feel right the way that they 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.160 wanted it to feel. It's always about the groove and 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:28.920 just a consistent groove that's happening that they really wanted. 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:31.600 And so that was my ultimate goal. I didn't want 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:33.760 to try to be too clever with it, you know, 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.320 just try to make it feel good, keep it simple 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:40.440 for the most part, and just have a bed of 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:41.160 something for them. 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.680 Okay, do you have a special recording kit and what 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:47.080 do you bring to the studio? 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.800 Oh? Man, it depends on what the session is or 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:56.960 what I think might be needed. I mean I generally 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:03.480 have just basic, you know, five piece kit, kick drum, 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:08.120 snare drum, maybe three toms, maybe four toms, you know, 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:13.160 and and that's that's generally what what I'm used to playing. 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:18.560 Nothing too too crazy, it's pretty standard. I may change 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:21.920 the snare drum depending on the track what might sound good, 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.040 you know, sometimes be feer snares kind of adds a 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.680 weight to the track to make it feel a little 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:31.000 weightier and pulled back, whereas a higher pitch snare can 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.720 kind of push things forward or just sound a little 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:37.400 bit more, you know, right in the middle of the 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:43.600 bead kind of things like that. But you know, other 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.880 than that, I might change the tunings, what things. You 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:49.520 know that Steely Dan likes things to be pretty dry, 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.880 so I would have everything muffled up pretty well. Some 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:56.080 people like it more open, meaning things ring out, you know, 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.680 the drums just ring and do their thing more and 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.320 kind of resonate. So depending on the music, depending on 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.560 what they want, or if they just want me to 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:09.280 do my thing, that's I kind of it just varies, 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:10.800 you know, I just have to figure out what's going 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:12.720 to work on that day. 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:18.160 So people always hear about tuning drums. What exactly is 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:19.080 tuning drums? 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:26.120 Ugh, it's really just I'm not scientific about it. To me, 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:29.200 it's like it's really for me, it's just finding something 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.840 that feels good, that has a good bounce, you know, 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:35.440 a good feel when I play it. But basically it's 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:38.120 just the tension of the head. So you just want 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.960 to get a nice tone between the top and the 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:45.760 bottom head that works well together. And every drum kind 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.600 of has a sweet spot range of the tone that 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:52.000 sounds good naturally, So you just kind of find that 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:57.320 whatever that drum wants to do. But yeah, I don't 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.000 think about it too much. I'm not one of those 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.800 people that tunes them to notes or anything specific. I 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.639 just know where I like it, and it's mostly about 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:07.879 the feel of it. I don't like it to be 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:12.480 fuddy and just feel like a pillow. I also don't 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:14.280 like it to feel like a table. I kind of 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:15.960 find the middle spot, you know, where it kind of 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:20.040 has a bounce, more like a rubber feel when you 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.080 play at your stick comes back, you know. That's what 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.919 I like. Yeah, it's just everyone has their way of 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.840 doing things. It's very a personal thing and I just 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:32.600 I just kind of wing it. After being in New 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.960 York for twenty something years, I played so many drum 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.280 sets that were trashed in clubs and where you just 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.000 go in or rehearsal halls or whatever and you just 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:43.880 have to deal, you know. I used to be really 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:48.000 particular when I was younger, had to be exactly right, 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:49.760 you know, or I'm not going to be comfortable. But 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.320 I got to the point where, oh man, it doesn't 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.400 even matter. Whatever's easy and I'll make this work. And 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.359 you know, they don't take care of anything in those clubs. 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:00.680 So it's like you don't know what are going to get. 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:04.040 So I've learned to just make it work, you know. 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.199 I'll figure out a way to make them sound the 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:08.479 best I can. And a lot of it's, you know, 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.520 it's really in the player. It's not really just like 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.920 with any instrument, it's it's the player that makes it 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:16.520 makes it sound, you know. 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:19.600 And are you an equipment geek? Do you have tons 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.680 of drums? Very relatively simple? What are you own? 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:27.679 Well, this this room right here, I would show you 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:29.320 if I could, but I don't want to mess up 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:34.080 with the camera. But I have I have a lot 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:37.520 of snare drums because snare drums kind of are important 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:41.119 when you're recording as far as getting different different sounds 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.919 and different vibes for the track. But I have I 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:50.320 have some old kits that I've collected. But I'm not 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:52.959 a crazy vintage guy. But I do have a few things, 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:56.399 some old Gretch kids that I've collected. I play Gretch 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.920 most of the time now, and uh, you know, I'd 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:04.080 say I have like three kits at home that I 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:08.359 interchange when I record from home, and then I don't know, 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:13.200 I probably thirty snare drums or more. And I keep 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:18.480 a kit in New York. And you know, other than that, 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:22.280 there's there's cartage places. If I'm traveling, I can use 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:29.120 their stuff or whatever, you know. But yeah, I have well, 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.560 I have my my touring kit as well, that's in 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.399 New York that just stays there with with Steelee van Skier. 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.640 So yeah, i'd see there's like five or six kits 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:45.240 all together. So I'm not crazy, oh man, I just 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:48.720 am a fan of the sound of them. I'm a 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.719 fan of the history. You know, a lot of my 0:19:52.800 --> 0:20:00.520 favorite drummers played Dretch, so you know, like Mix Mitchell, like, uh, 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:04.439 lots of lots of the greats. You know. I went 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:06.600 through a jazz phase in school, so I was really 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:10.199 into Elvin Jones and Tony Williams and and uh, you 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:14.840 know a lot of the jazz guys played Gretch. It's 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:19.560 an American company that kind of there there they uh 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.320 the Gretch building in Brooklyn. I used to see all 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:26.320 the time crossing the Williamsburg Bridge. The building is still 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:28.240 there and it says Gretch on it and and that's 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:30.760 kind of where they started when they came over from Germany. 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:35.720 The family, and it's just a really cool story, you know. 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:42.440 They they it's just a classy uh vibe that they 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:46.440 have that I that I like. And it's they had 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:49.880 these really thin shells that had this resonance that they're 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:53.240 known for, and now they make lots of different stuff. 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:55.200 What they're making now it's just as good as back 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:59.920 in the day, and so that's another plus. But yeah, 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:04.840 it's just taste. And I've just been a Gretch fan. 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:09.080 Every time I record, I usually use Gretch, even with 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:09.760 Seely Dan. 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.080 So what is the difference between the different brands in 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:14.639 terms of sound and feel? 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:21.159 Well, these days, you know, everyone makes really high quality stuff. 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:21.639 It's just. 0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:29.040 What you get used to. There's like an organic openness 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:32.800 about Gretch. For me, that's they're not trying too hard 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:35.720 to be high tech, Like they found something that worked 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:38.960 and just stuck with it. From back in the I 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:44.880 would say, you know, sixties and seventies eras, and that's 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:47.800 like all my favorite music is from that era, sixties 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:51.840 and seventies and some of the eighties, and it just 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:55.760 a lot of those recordings in those days were Gretch 0:21:56.200 --> 0:22:02.040 and you just kind of, you know, I think that 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:03.960 that they you know, they just found something that worked, 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:06.119 you know, and it just it just kind of it 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:09.280 just stayed the same, and it just has that vibe. 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:13.800 It has that like I don't know, it's like a 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:17.320 warm tone that I really, I really dig, you know. 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:25.680 And what about symbols and heads. 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:25.359 You know, there's a lot of choices out there, but 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:27.919 I've always been a Silgian guy who loves it. You know. 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:33.280 That's just what I've always played, you know. You you 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:34.919 you kind of want to do what your heroes do 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:37.800 when you're young. You grow up and you you you 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:40.760 do notice those things, especially if you're as into it 0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:43.440 as I was growing up and just wanted so hungry 0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:46.239 for all the information, and you just kind of at 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:48.880 first you copy everything and then you figure out what 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:51.480 you're going to do with it all. And part of 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:54.360 it is the gear, you know. So Xilgion is kind 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:56.520 of a set of standard, just like gretched it for me. 0:22:56.600 --> 0:23:01.880 And then there's in the in the head realm, there's 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:04.440 there's there's only a few companies that are out there 0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:08.880 that that are just kind of set the standard as well, 0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:12.359 with Remo or Evans is really great and I use 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:19.000 Evans now, and it's just whatever is easy to you know, 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:22.159 use her friendly and and they're not trying too hard 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:25.199 to be you know, because it's just drums, you know, 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:29.520 like it doesn't have to be rocket scientists making this stuff. 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:32.879 It's just once you find something that works, that's just 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:35.119 how I am. I just I stick with it what 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:35.479 I know. 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:38.280 And what is the life span of the head? 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:45.080 Uh, It depends on if I'm bashing my brains out 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:50.240 or if I'm just playing uh, you know more normal. 0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:55.560 Depends on the situation, but it can on the road, 0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:58.399 it can last you know, it's air drum is going 0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:00.880 to go quicker because you're playing it more so those 0:24:00.880 --> 0:24:03.240 can last a show or maybe two if I'm lucky, 0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:08.280 if it's a high energy, hard hitting thing if it's 0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:13.639 if it's not, they can last months. You know. It 0:24:13.720 --> 0:24:20.920 just depends on what's happening. But yeah, it varies, i'd say. 0:24:20.960 --> 0:24:22.880 And what about the sticks? 0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:28.800 The sticks they last a long time for me, I 0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:31.600 don't really I'm not a I don't break sticks a 0:24:31.600 --> 0:24:34.639 lot and I never have. And a lot of it 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:39.040 I think has to do with my technique. You know, 0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:42.960 I'm not like I'm not hitting as hard as it 0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:46.440 may look. I just use a lot of motion, a 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:49.920 lot of lift and motion, but I'm not The physics 0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:52.719 of it is more about the force behind it. But 0:24:53.000 --> 0:24:57.040 I'm not like bashing into into the drum, you know, 0:24:57.119 --> 0:24:59.520 I'm letting it rebound and it's I'm getting a big 0:24:59.520 --> 0:25:03.000 sound because the momentum behind it. So it's just something 0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:06.200 I've worked on many for many years and tried to 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:08.720 figure out a way to get a big sound without 0:25:08.720 --> 0:25:13.119 getting tired and hitting too hard. And what about the 0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:17.240 width of the stick? The width of the stick, I 0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:22.679 don't know. I have a size that I use, actually 0:25:22.760 --> 0:25:26.280 have a stick, a signature stick with Vic Firth that 0:25:26.359 --> 0:25:33.679 I use, and it's it's probably somewhere in the middle. 0:25:33.760 --> 0:25:37.359 It's not a tiny jazzy thing it's or a huge 0:25:37.440 --> 0:25:41.960 rock thing. It's kind of in the middle. I don't 0:25:41.960 --> 0:25:44.199 really know the diameter or the I don't really know 0:25:44.359 --> 0:25:47.480 the details. But it feels good, it works, and the 0:25:47.920 --> 0:25:50.800 beat of it, it's not too thick. It sounds good 0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:53.080 on the symbols, and you know, I found something I like. 0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:02.840 Okay, let's go back to Steely Dan. Granted you've been 0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:06.919 working with him for twenty odd years, but the band 0:26:07.000 --> 0:26:10.359 decides to go on the road. How much rehearsal is there. 0:26:12.720 --> 0:26:16.399 The first few tours we would rehearse probably two weeks 0:26:16.400 --> 0:26:21.639 with just the rhythm section, and then another few I 0:26:21.680 --> 0:26:23.640 don't know, I'm trying to think it could have been 0:26:23.760 --> 0:26:27.119 more than that, which is the rhythm section including Donald Walter, 0:26:27.880 --> 0:26:34.359 and then then I guess the horns and singers meaning 0:26:34.400 --> 0:26:38.560 the background singers would come in like another two weeks 0:26:38.560 --> 0:26:41.040 after that, and we would do you know, I would 0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:45.200 say five to six weeks of rehearsing if I remember correctly. 0:26:45.359 --> 0:26:49.480 And then over the years as this band, it's been 0:26:49.520 --> 0:26:51.840 a lot of the same personnel for a long time. 0:26:51.880 --> 0:26:56.120 Now as we kind of started working more and more 0:26:56.320 --> 0:27:02.720 in the later years, you know, it wouldn't rehearse as much. 0:27:02.720 --> 0:27:06.359 It would come together a lot quicker. So now we 0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:09.480 will just do maybe maybe five days with them section 0:27:09.600 --> 0:27:11.960 and three days with everyone else and then and then 0:27:12.080 --> 0:27:17.080 go out. But there was a time where where they 0:27:18.320 --> 0:27:20.280 when I first started working with them, they would do 0:27:20.320 --> 0:27:23.560 a one long tour and then take a couple of 0:27:23.640 --> 0:27:29.080 years off. So it I was lucky to find some 0:27:29.119 --> 0:27:34.040 things in there that worked out for me, some incredible situations, 0:27:34.119 --> 0:27:37.240 you know, I was able to work with with staying 0:27:37.440 --> 0:27:40.400 for a couple of years, and then there's a couple 0:27:40.480 --> 0:27:44.760 of tours with James Taylor in there in between Steely 0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:51.040 Van working. There was what else. I did a tour 0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:56.080 with John Mayer. I did a tour with h Toto 0:27:56.400 --> 0:28:00.639 a little bit. Most recently Christopher Cross. A lot of 0:28:00.960 --> 0:28:03.760 a lot of great a lot of a lot of 0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:06.359 this music that, like I said, is kind of coming 0:28:06.400 --> 0:28:09.480 from that A lot of it's coming from that same era, 0:28:09.880 --> 0:28:12.160 you know, which is the stuff that I love when 0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:14.360 they used to make those records that were so crafted, 0:28:14.480 --> 0:28:18.480 you know, with all the session musicians, and I love 0:28:18.520 --> 0:28:25.760 all that stuff. But yeah, it's it's pretty. It's kind 0:28:25.760 --> 0:28:28.239 of turned into a machine after all the years. So 0:28:28.280 --> 0:28:31.480 we we don't we don't have to rehearse as much. 0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:34.600 It usually depends on how much time has been between 0:28:34.640 --> 0:28:37.680 the last time we played. You know, I guess Donald 0:28:37.720 --> 0:28:40.760 will decide how much how much time we need to 0:28:40.800 --> 0:28:41.560 feel comfortable. 0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:45.200 And what about repertoire? Is Donald, you know you're gonna 0:28:45.200 --> 0:28:47.600 rehearse everything you're gonna play. Is he gonna pull some 0:28:47.680 --> 0:28:49.560 deep thing out? You're gonna play the same thing all 0:28:49.600 --> 0:28:50.040 the time. 0:28:53.080 --> 0:28:58.800 You know, it's kind of it's it's changed over the years, 0:28:58.840 --> 0:29:02.920 you know, because there's there's a set there's a standard 0:29:02.960 --> 0:29:05.800 set list. I would say that has a lot of 0:29:05.840 --> 0:29:08.760 the same tunes, and then he'll switch out little sections 0:29:08.800 --> 0:29:15.760 within that. But we would always do album nights at 0:29:15.760 --> 0:29:19.280 the at the Beacon just where it started, and we 0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:21.320 would do a couple of weeks at the Beacon. We 0:29:21.320 --> 0:29:23.960 would do different album nights each night, so we would 0:29:24.000 --> 0:29:27.880 do pretty much the whole repertoire at some point because 0:29:27.880 --> 0:29:30.360 we would we would play the Royal Scam in its entirety, 0:29:30.400 --> 0:29:33.840 we would do Asia and its entirety. We did Countdown 0:29:33.840 --> 0:29:36.600 to Ecstasy, we did Katie Live, We did you know, 0:29:37.400 --> 0:29:39.840 the entire records, and then the greatest hits after that. 0:29:40.200 --> 0:29:43.640 So it was it was really cool because you know, 0:29:43.720 --> 0:29:45.400 for us in the band, we got to play stuff 0:29:45.400 --> 0:29:47.640 that we don't normally play, some of the deeper cuts 0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:51.880 and uh and for the diehard fans that was that 0:29:52.000 --> 0:29:57.400 was incredible. You know. We would do Donald's Nightfly record, 0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:01.760 or sometime during the seely Dan Knights, we would do 0:30:01.840 --> 0:30:04.680 some of donald solo stuff. He would work those in 0:30:05.040 --> 0:30:08.480 so it's always changing and then he would rearrange some 0:30:08.520 --> 0:30:10.600 stuff that he was. You know, he gets tired of 0:30:11.560 --> 0:30:14.600 playing them the exact same way. You know, some of 0:30:14.600 --> 0:30:19.040 the older tracks he'll he'll rearrange every now and then. 0:30:20.320 --> 0:30:23.280 So I think it's just because he gets bored and 0:30:23.480 --> 0:30:24.479 ables to change it up. 0:30:24.760 --> 0:30:26.959 Well, how about you. You're going on the road for 0:30:27.040 --> 0:30:30.920 twenty years, certainly not every night, and you're playing the 0:30:31.000 --> 0:30:34.680 same songs. Are you still as excited? Do you get 0:30:34.720 --> 0:30:37.640 bored you start thinking about your laundry? 0:30:40.720 --> 0:30:47.800 Well, no, I I don't. I don't really get bored. 0:30:47.840 --> 0:30:51.000 I mean this it's you know, I obviously I have 0:30:51.120 --> 0:30:55.480 nights where I'm more on than others, but I'm such 0:30:55.480 --> 0:30:58.640 a fan of the music, and I just I always 0:30:58.680 --> 0:31:01.120 have a good time, some nice other than others, you know. 0:31:02.400 --> 0:31:05.360 But I'm definitely not thinking about laundry, you know, I could. 0:31:06.680 --> 0:31:09.640 I know what I'm getting burnt out after a long tour, 0:31:09.720 --> 0:31:13.160 but I'm I still try to, like, you know, get 0:31:13.240 --> 0:31:14.960 up there and nail it as best I can. 0:31:16.000 --> 0:31:19.440 And what's the difference with Walter No longer? With us, 0:31:22.080 --> 0:31:22.560 it's a. 0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:32.120 Huge dynamic that's missing. I mean, it's yeah, it's uh. 0:31:32.400 --> 0:31:35.720 I guess all I can say is it's it's doable 0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:39.440 because Donald is the singer. It's doable that we can 0:31:39.520 --> 0:31:41.960 keep going or you know that Donald wants to keep 0:31:42.160 --> 0:31:46.320 keep the band going. It's, uh, it works, but obviously 0:31:46.400 --> 0:31:54.240 it's not the same. Uh. They had such a an incredible, 0:31:55.320 --> 0:31:58.880 you know relationship. It was it was always fun just 0:31:58.920 --> 0:32:01.160 to see how they would bounce ideas off each other, 0:32:01.200 --> 0:32:03.239 and it was, you know, half the time it was 0:32:04.160 --> 0:32:07.520 it was over our heads, you know, just follow their 0:32:07.960 --> 0:32:13.920 their sense of humor and their references and you know, 0:32:14.080 --> 0:32:17.320 just having that background together, growing up together. It was. 0:32:17.360 --> 0:32:20.840 It was cool to see that. And I'm sure it 0:32:20.920 --> 0:32:24.040 must be weird for Donald to just be up there 0:32:24.440 --> 0:32:26.880 without his partner of all those years. You know, I 0:32:26.880 --> 0:32:30.360 can't imagine that. But it's it's you know, it's cool, 0:32:30.720 --> 0:32:33.560 and it's the music is what matters, and the fact 0:32:33.600 --> 0:32:39.120 that Donald is wanting to keep it going. It's it's 0:32:39.160 --> 0:32:41.120 a beautiful thing for everyone. 0:32:41.720 --> 0:32:44.560 Okay, So you said you went to school in Texas. 0:32:44.600 --> 0:32:45.480 Where'd you grow up? 0:32:46.840 --> 0:32:52.560 I grew up in Mississippi. I was born in Greenville, Mississippi, 0:32:52.560 --> 0:32:54.880 which is in the Mississippi Delta. 0:32:55.600 --> 0:32:59.120 You know, most people are not that Mississippi savvy, you know, 0:32:59.280 --> 0:33:03.080 northern Mississippi is like Tennessee. Southern Mississippi is a world 0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:05.920 up to itself. Where is that where you grew up? 0:33:06.240 --> 0:33:09.440 And how far is the biggest town went, I'll give 0:33:09.480 --> 0:33:10.280 me a little bit more. 0:33:10.960 --> 0:33:15.720 Okay, well, Greenville the delta is kind of like north Mississippi, 0:33:15.720 --> 0:33:18.520 like below Memphis. If you know where Memphis, Tennessee is 0:33:18.600 --> 0:33:22.080 just like right below that. So it's in that area 0:33:23.120 --> 0:33:27.120 kind of like I don't know, not central Mississippi, but 0:33:27.160 --> 0:33:30.640 like maybe just below Memphis. That's kind of where I 0:33:30.680 --> 0:33:33.200 was born. And then we moved south to the Jackson area, 0:33:33.240 --> 0:33:39.120 which is central centrally located in a town called Clinton, Mississippi, 0:33:39.120 --> 0:33:41.520 which is where I grew up from like age five 0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:48.760 through high school. And then well, I mean it was 0:33:49.160 --> 0:33:50.719 it was a great place to grow up. I mean, 0:33:50.760 --> 0:33:56.600 obviously there's a lot of rich musical culture in that area, 0:33:58.120 --> 0:34:01.800 and I was not quite aware of it all until 0:34:01.800 --> 0:34:05.320 I got older, but just being around people that knew 0:34:05.360 --> 0:34:07.160 it could turn me on to things. You know. I 0:34:07.160 --> 0:34:11.320 had some great teachers along the way, But I was 0:34:11.320 --> 0:34:14.320 certainly influenced by New Orleans, which was not far you know, 0:34:14.360 --> 0:34:17.120 the New Orleans music. I really got heavily into that. 0:34:17.880 --> 0:34:21.520 Of course, Memphis had the Stacks Recordings just up the road, 0:34:22.000 --> 0:34:24.759 so to speak, and then you had Muscle Shoals Alabama 0:34:24.960 --> 0:34:27.520 not too far like that. Whole region is just really 0:34:27.640 --> 0:34:33.440 rich of American music culture. That's pretty insane, you know, 0:34:35.200 --> 0:34:39.279 and I learned more about it later. But it's just 0:34:39.360 --> 0:34:42.520 cool to be from that. You know, it doesn't seem 0:34:42.520 --> 0:34:44.360 it doesn't see. It seems rare. You know. There's not 0:34:44.440 --> 0:34:46.279 a lot of people that say, yeah, I'm from Mississippi, 0:34:46.280 --> 0:34:51.000 so it's kind of I don't know, it's definitely a 0:34:51.640 --> 0:34:54.680 communication starter, you know, people I didn't know people lived 0:34:54.680 --> 0:34:55.360 in Mississippi. 0:34:56.400 --> 0:34:59.319 So is your family have a long history in Mississippi. 0:34:59.360 --> 0:35:01.320 What did your father their mother do for a living. 0:35:03.560 --> 0:35:08.480 My yeah, both my parents were from there, well, I 0:35:08.520 --> 0:35:10.439 guess the majority of their lives. I think my dad 0:35:10.520 --> 0:35:14.120 was originally from Schenecade, New York. My mom was from there. 0:35:16.680 --> 0:35:20.720 She was a school teacher. She taught in elementary school 0:35:21.000 --> 0:35:25.719 and I know she taught kindergarten at one point. My 0:35:25.840 --> 0:35:30.480 dad was he worked at Mississippi Valley Gas Company in Jackson, 0:35:31.120 --> 0:35:36.600 and he was a corrosion engineer, which basically he had 0:35:38.440 --> 0:35:42.960 accounts he would go to annually or semi annually. I 0:35:43.000 --> 0:35:45.440 don't know exactly. I don't remember how it worked, but 0:35:45.560 --> 0:35:48.239 he would just basically go and do leak at surveys 0:35:48.280 --> 0:35:52.359 and it was a natural natural gas accounts he would 0:35:52.360 --> 0:35:56.000 have at various locations, and I guess if he found 0:35:56.000 --> 0:35:57.799 a leak, he would get it fixed and you know 0:35:57.920 --> 0:36:01.560 that kind of thing. It probably was more involved in that, 0:36:01.600 --> 0:36:04.279 but that's that's really all I could. That's all I 0:36:04.360 --> 0:36:07.840 knew at the time about it. But yeah, definitely not 0:36:07.960 --> 0:36:11.560 musicians I was. I was just one of the weird 0:36:12.080 --> 0:36:14.040 people that kind of figured out what they want to 0:36:14.080 --> 0:36:16.320 do at an early age. It wasn't because of my family. 0:36:16.680 --> 0:36:21.760 I had two I had two older sisters. They weren't 0:36:22.120 --> 0:36:26.200 musicians really, but they I think played some piano, but they, 0:36:28.480 --> 0:36:30.160 you know, they weren't serious about it. But there was 0:36:30.160 --> 0:36:32.000 always music in the house and that's kind of how 0:36:32.000 --> 0:36:34.680 it all started, just being around music all the time. 0:36:35.000 --> 0:36:36.200 What kind of music. 0:36:37.760 --> 0:36:44.839 I can remember, just various stuff. I remember. Obviously we 0:36:44.840 --> 0:36:47.200 were listening to a lot of you know, top forty 0:36:47.360 --> 0:36:49.960 radio growing up in classic rock and stuff like that. 0:36:51.719 --> 0:36:55.840 But I remember there were some Paul McCartney and Wings. 0:36:57.320 --> 0:37:03.880 I remember the Beg's there some Beatles, there was you know, 0:37:04.400 --> 0:37:07.399 like popular music of the day. There was there was 0:37:08.239 --> 0:37:13.960 trying to think various stuff, you know, and I think 0:37:14.120 --> 0:37:18.880 listening to just really it was just a sponge, you know. 0:37:18.960 --> 0:37:22.360 I was like listening to whatever, whatever I whatever was around, 0:37:23.040 --> 0:37:25.040 and I was just drawn to the rhythm and and 0:37:26.360 --> 0:37:28.920 you know, drums and music. I just somehow knew that's 0:37:28.920 --> 0:37:29.799 what I wanted to do. 0:37:31.320 --> 0:37:33.240 Well, a little bit slower, How did you start playing 0:37:33.280 --> 0:37:35.520 the drums and the drums your first instrument? 0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:42.040 Yeah, it was my first instrument. I I was I 0:37:42.040 --> 0:37:45.040 was just trying to think, you know. I would watch 0:37:45.080 --> 0:37:48.759 the Johnny Carson Show and see Buddy Rich on there 0:37:48.920 --> 0:37:52.000 or other. Ed Shaughnessy was the drummer in the band. 0:37:52.120 --> 0:37:55.279 It was like always, you know, musical guests that I'd 0:37:55.280 --> 0:37:58.120 be into and and and then later I got into 0:37:58.200 --> 0:38:02.799 Late Night with David Letterman, which kind of started my 0:38:02.840 --> 0:38:05.279 whole infatuation with New York City, and I knew I 0:38:05.320 --> 0:38:09.680 wanted to go there. You know. At some point I 0:38:09.800 --> 0:38:14.040 fell in love with New York. So, you know, I 0:38:14.040 --> 0:38:21.319 guess my parents realized that I was into this thing, 0:38:21.400 --> 0:38:25.239 and they got me the toy kits that a lot 0:38:25.280 --> 0:38:29.360 of parents start out with to see how it goes, 0:38:29.480 --> 0:38:32.440 you know, I don't want to get too too locked in. 0:38:33.480 --> 0:38:36.880 And those those paper heads they last about two days, 0:38:36.920 --> 0:38:43.960 you know, and uh, and then I just kept wanting more. 0:38:44.120 --> 0:38:48.120 And eventually I think someone recommended to my parents get 0:38:48.160 --> 0:38:51.200 them a snare drum, you know, start there, and and 0:38:51.239 --> 0:38:55.640 then I started just getting more and more into it, 0:38:55.719 --> 0:38:57.200 and I wanted a drum set. I got my first 0:38:57.280 --> 0:39:00.840 drum set. I talked to my dad into it. I 0:39:00.880 --> 0:39:04.600 think I was around nine ten, and that's when it 0:39:04.640 --> 0:39:08.040 really got serious because I was just listening to all 0:39:08.120 --> 0:39:10.160 kinds of different music in the house and just trying 0:39:10.200 --> 0:39:13.080 to figure out what they were doing and just picking 0:39:13.080 --> 0:39:20.040 out the parts, you know, by year. And the great 0:39:20.080 --> 0:39:26.040 thing was is that I didn't just play drums by 0:39:26.080 --> 0:39:28.719 myself for very long. There was there was some other 0:39:28.880 --> 0:39:31.520 musicians in the neighborhood that I met that were older 0:39:31.520 --> 0:39:34.640 than me that and they needed a drummer. It was 0:39:34.719 --> 0:39:39.440 just perfect timing and we ended up putting this literally 0:39:40.400 --> 0:39:43.319 a garage band together and we just played classic rock 0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:49.359 and stuff that they were into. And this guy's name 0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:53.200 was David Duncan. I remember going into his house. We'd 0:39:53.239 --> 0:39:55.320 set up in his garage for a long time for 0:39:56.000 --> 0:39:58.759 several years, and just practiced there, like almost every day, 0:40:00.440 --> 0:40:04.560 just playing, just just learning music. I think we finally 0:40:04.560 --> 0:40:08.000 got some gigs, but it was just more about just 0:40:08.000 --> 0:40:11.280 just the the escape of just going in that garage 0:40:11.280 --> 0:40:15.760 and playing together and inviting people over as we were jamming. 0:40:15.800 --> 0:40:22.799 And and then eventually my parents realized that this wasn't 0:40:22.840 --> 0:40:26.360 going to go away. They were they were like, okay, 0:40:26.360 --> 0:40:28.480 what are we going to do? So they they they 0:40:28.520 --> 0:40:32.000 built a soundproof room in our garage, so that became 0:40:32.080 --> 0:40:34.240 a place where we would rehearse and I would play. 0:40:34.440 --> 0:40:36.280 I couldn't wait to get home from school to play, 0:40:36.320 --> 0:40:40.759 and always practicing, always playing, putting in the work, you know, 0:40:41.000 --> 0:40:48.160 just and then as soon as I could, I got 0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:51.160 into the school programs and found some great teachers and 0:40:51.800 --> 0:40:55.560 in the area. I wanted to do it all, you know. 0:40:55.800 --> 0:40:58.040 I wanted to be in the marching band. I wanted 0:40:58.120 --> 0:41:00.160 to play. I was already the drummer. I was like, 0:41:02.600 --> 0:41:06.760 you know it, I think any musician can probably relate 0:41:06.920 --> 0:41:11.480 like is a lot of us are kind of We're sensitive, 0:41:11.480 --> 0:41:13.879 and we're introverted most of the time, and like this 0:41:13.960 --> 0:41:17.320 is our kind of our self esteem and our identity 0:41:17.400 --> 0:41:19.920 is these whatever we decide to play, you know, it 0:41:20.000 --> 0:41:23.319 becomes like that's how I was anyway. I was just like, man, 0:41:23.360 --> 0:41:27.279 this is this is everything, and I became that the 0:41:27.360 --> 0:41:32.560 drummer guy. You know, so everybody. But it was it 0:41:32.640 --> 0:41:34.880 was a great time. It was a good, good place 0:41:34.920 --> 0:41:39.560 to grow up. And I was around people that were 0:41:39.600 --> 0:41:43.200 older than me that that was teaching me about playing 0:41:43.239 --> 0:41:45.759 in a rhythm section and you know, what is the 0:41:45.840 --> 0:41:47.560 kick drum and the bass drum need to do? How 0:41:47.560 --> 0:41:50.520 does that work together? And you know all those things 0:41:51.880 --> 0:41:55.440 that that I learned at an early age, you know, 0:41:55.640 --> 0:41:58.319 just playing with people, playing with other humans, then just 0:41:58.320 --> 0:42:01.040 sitting in a practice room by myself. It seems like 0:42:01.040 --> 0:42:04.280 that's what a lot of young drummers are doing these days. 0:42:04.280 --> 0:42:07.480 They just they can play a lot of great stuff 0:42:07.480 --> 0:42:10.680 and they're putting out their Instagram videos, but it's you know, 0:42:10.680 --> 0:42:13.480 I don't know if they've really played in a band before. 0:42:13.800 --> 0:42:15.360 You know, you can kind of tell that they have 0:42:15.520 --> 0:42:21.920 or not, you know, but I was lucky. I was 0:42:22.000 --> 0:42:24.960 lucky to have that opportunity right away to play with 0:42:25.000 --> 0:42:27.120 people and just kind of start there. 0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:32.560 Okay, a little bit more in playing in bands in 0:42:32.640 --> 0:42:35.200 high school. I mean, was this you know we hear 0:42:35.239 --> 0:42:37.279 from some people. Oh yeah, I played in clubs or 0:42:37.320 --> 0:42:40.440 I played every school dance. What was your situation? 0:42:42.800 --> 0:42:48.360 We ended up well as far as school goes. I 0:42:48.560 --> 0:42:51.600 got into the marching band, I did symphonic band, I 0:42:51.680 --> 0:42:57.600 played other percussion instruments, and I had to, like, I 0:42:57.600 --> 0:42:59.919 remember when it first started. I guess it was seventh grade, 0:43:00.160 --> 0:43:03.000 you know, the band program. I had to let the 0:43:03.000 --> 0:43:05.400 band director know I was already a drummer, you know, 0:43:05.520 --> 0:43:07.440 like I'm not going to sit here and audition on, 0:43:09.000 --> 0:43:11.040 not going to work on my amishor on a tuba, 0:43:11.520 --> 0:43:13.879 you know, and let you pick what I'm going to play. 0:43:13.920 --> 0:43:15.440 I'm like, I want to play the drums, you know. 0:43:15.560 --> 0:43:21.920 And it worked, it worked out. But but yeah, I 0:43:22.200 --> 0:43:24.880 got to any any school band program that they had, 0:43:26.239 --> 0:43:29.000 whether it was we had a show choir, we didn't 0:43:29.000 --> 0:43:30.920 have a jazz band. We had a show choir. I 0:43:31.000 --> 0:43:34.799 was the drummer, and that it was like a song 0:43:34.800 --> 0:43:37.759 and dance group, you know, doing like a variety show 0:43:37.880 --> 0:43:46.160 kind of thing, and you know, even trying to think 0:43:46.239 --> 0:43:49.120 what else was happening in the high school days. But 0:43:49.120 --> 0:43:51.480 but I was playing, you know, in these bands when 0:43:51.520 --> 0:43:54.759 I get home from school. I think we finally I 0:43:54.800 --> 0:44:00.240 got a gig or two at clubs and my parents 0:44:00.280 --> 0:44:02.480 would have to take me and stay with me to 0:44:02.520 --> 0:44:05.640 get me in and that kind of thing, because I was, 0:44:06.440 --> 0:44:10.000 I don't know, probably eleven twelve at this point, playing 0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:16.440 in cars and yeah, so you know that my parents 0:44:16.440 --> 0:44:21.319 were supportive. So that was cool that that was I 0:44:21.320 --> 0:44:26.359 think because it was so foreign to them, this whole 0:44:26.440 --> 0:44:28.839 musician thing, because it's just wasn't anything that they were. 0:44:29.640 --> 0:44:31.399 They just didn't know anything about it. So I think 0:44:31.400 --> 0:44:34.120 they just kind of saw it as exciting because it 0:44:34.160 --> 0:44:38.239 was so different from you know, what they had done 0:44:38.480 --> 0:44:40.840 up until that point, and I was taking this risk, 0:44:40.920 --> 0:44:45.520 and I think they enjoyed that because it could have 0:44:45.520 --> 0:44:47.960 gone the other way. You know, it could have been like, 0:44:48.880 --> 0:44:52.080 you know, what are you doing? But luckily I had 0:44:52.880 --> 0:44:57.279 they were open enough to deal with it. But yeah, 0:44:57.280 --> 0:44:58.839 and then when I got into college, I went to 0:44:58.840 --> 0:45:06.239 North Texas and and it's in the Dallas area in Denton, Texas. 0:45:06.840 --> 0:45:10.319 I was, you know, previously playing a lot of rock 0:45:10.400 --> 0:45:13.120 and R and B and soul music, groove music. I 0:45:13.160 --> 0:45:15.480 was really into a lot of that I wanted to 0:45:17.320 --> 0:45:20.120 learn more. I was getting more into progressive stuff and 0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:23.439 fusion jazz rock, kind of all that kind of thing 0:45:23.719 --> 0:45:26.680 that was more sophisticated, and I wanted to get more 0:45:26.719 --> 0:45:28.960 into the jazz thing because I didn't know a lot 0:45:29.000 --> 0:45:31.240 about it. I was just starting to kind of dab 0:45:31.239 --> 0:45:34.000 into it from teachers turning me on to stuff, and 0:45:34.920 --> 0:45:39.719 so U and T University of North Texas is known 0:45:39.760 --> 0:45:42.480 as a really good jazz program and jazz school. So 0:45:42.560 --> 0:45:44.759 that's really why I just decided to go there because 0:45:44.760 --> 0:45:48.800 I wanted to just challenge myself something new and different. 0:45:51.200 --> 0:45:55.400 And I had decided that, you know, I want to 0:45:55.400 --> 0:46:00.000 do this New York thing, and and the jazz influence 0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:03.239 was going to probably help that out, you know, just 0:46:03.239 --> 0:46:05.960 just to kind of incorporate that into my playing where 0:46:06.000 --> 0:46:08.520 I could just kind of draw from that whenever I 0:46:08.600 --> 0:46:14.000 need to. And but yeah, I was doing, you know, 0:46:14.760 --> 0:46:18.440 taking lessons in that genre of music and then playing 0:46:18.480 --> 0:46:26.400 with various musicians in the Dallas area. I was, I 0:46:26.520 --> 0:46:28.560 was playing. It got to a point where I was 0:46:28.600 --> 0:46:31.840 playing seven nights a week and then also going to school, 0:46:32.239 --> 0:46:35.640 trying to go to school, you know, but I was 0:46:35.880 --> 0:46:38.800 playing a lot. It was was almost like a training ground, 0:46:38.880 --> 0:46:40.920 you know, before I moved to New York. But there 0:46:40.960 --> 0:46:43.960 was a lot of great players in Dallas. I think 0:46:43.960 --> 0:46:47.239 the school brings in a lot of talent and they 0:46:47.239 --> 0:46:50.959 stick around and there's just a lot of great players there. 0:46:51.600 --> 0:46:54.840 At the time. This would have been you know, late eighties, 0:46:55.320 --> 0:47:01.799 early nineties, I guess. And I I was playing in 0:47:01.840 --> 0:47:05.400 this band called Dallas Brass and Electric and we played 0:47:05.480 --> 0:47:09.080 like a lot of the you know, a lot of 0:47:09.280 --> 0:47:11.560 it was a cover band. We did what most of 0:47:11.600 --> 0:47:13.520 those bands would do, but we also because of the 0:47:13.520 --> 0:47:16.680 horn section, we'd play like Tower Power and Berthman and 0:47:16.760 --> 0:47:24.000 Fire Chicago and you know, just great horn music, R 0:47:24.040 --> 0:47:27.880 and B stuff, and it was it was really great. 0:47:28.000 --> 0:47:30.360 It's really it was a great band and we played 0:47:30.480 --> 0:47:32.800 all the time for years. I was in that band, 0:47:32.840 --> 0:47:36.800 and it just it did a lot for me growing 0:47:36.840 --> 0:47:39.759 as a musician. It was. It was really a great time. 0:47:42.200 --> 0:47:48.000 So yeah, I mean, it was just it was a 0:47:48.040 --> 0:47:51.200 great time to be in in Texas and that at 0:47:51.200 --> 0:47:53.440 that time at UNC, there was just a lot going on. 0:47:54.200 --> 0:47:55.719 You know, I don't know how it is now, but 0:47:55.920 --> 0:47:56.920 at that time it was great. 0:48:04.040 --> 0:48:08.919 Okay, So that's outside the classroom certainly many musicians never 0:48:09.000 --> 0:48:12.640 go to college, never mind music college. So in retrospect, 0:48:12.719 --> 0:48:14.640 what did you learn and was it to your benefit 0:48:14.719 --> 0:48:19.279 in the classroom, I. 0:48:19.200 --> 0:48:23.239 Think I gained more from just you know, getting out 0:48:23.280 --> 0:48:29.759 and playing. But what was cool was being around peers 0:48:29.840 --> 0:48:32.120 that turned me on to stuff, you know, turn me 0:48:32.120 --> 0:48:36.000 onto music I didn't know about, or just just you know, 0:48:36.239 --> 0:48:38.520 check this out, you know kind of stuff. Just and 0:48:38.800 --> 0:48:41.640 and getting together with other players and playing and just 0:48:42.320 --> 0:48:46.560 growing that way, changing ideas. And had some great teachers 0:48:46.560 --> 0:48:50.279 for sure. Ed sof was was the drum set teacher there, 0:48:50.320 --> 0:48:53.680 and he was it was pretty life changing what we 0:48:53.760 --> 0:48:58.239 got into. So that was that was great. That part 0:48:58.239 --> 0:49:02.320 of it was great, But I think just being around 0:49:02.360 --> 0:49:07.160 it and having that opportunity to grow, you know, before 0:49:07.239 --> 0:49:08.880 I made the big move, I think it was just 0:49:08.920 --> 0:49:12.160 a it was it was you know, some people aren't 0:49:12.160 --> 0:49:14.600 into the music school idea, but it works out well 0:49:14.640 --> 0:49:17.160 for me. I think I was I kind of needed that. 0:49:19.360 --> 0:49:22.279 I needed more time to figure stuff out, you know, 0:49:22.560 --> 0:49:25.719 before I went to the big city to see what 0:49:25.719 --> 0:49:26.240 could happen. 0:49:26.280 --> 0:49:29.080 You know, so you graduate from college and take me 0:49:29.120 --> 0:49:29.560 from there. 0:49:31.560 --> 0:49:38.360 I didn't graduate, I remember, I remember Ed so of 0:49:38.400 --> 0:49:42.040 actually telling my mom, my teacher there, that yeah, Keith, 0:49:42.160 --> 0:49:44.239 Keith could just should just go. Just let him go, 0:49:45.040 --> 0:49:48.000 let him see what happens. You know. I always thought 0:49:48.000 --> 0:49:50.040 that was kind of cool that he went there, because 0:49:50.800 --> 0:49:52.239 you would think he'd be like, oh, he's got to 0:49:52.239 --> 0:49:54.439 finish his degree, but he was. He was cool enough 0:49:54.440 --> 0:49:56.400 to tell my mom that. And my mom was like, 0:49:56.440 --> 0:50:01.680 oh my gosh. She was very, very very and you know, 0:50:03.320 --> 0:50:07.399 great great lady, but just just really conservative and it's 0:50:07.440 --> 0:50:09.600 like you got to finish that degree kind of thing, 0:50:09.640 --> 0:50:14.200 you know. But anyway, so he convinced her that it 0:50:14.280 --> 0:50:15.120 was okay. 0:50:15.880 --> 0:50:17.920 How far are you from a degree? How long were 0:50:17.960 --> 0:50:18.400 you there? 0:50:18.960 --> 0:50:20.520 You know, I was there for four years. I was 0:50:20.520 --> 0:50:24.400 there from I guess eighty nine to ninety two, and 0:50:24.440 --> 0:50:28.279 then I was still playing a lot in Dallas Fort 0:50:28.320 --> 0:50:31.680 Worth area. So I was working all the time, just 0:50:31.719 --> 0:50:37.560 playing gigs, gig after gig, different types of stuff, a 0:50:37.560 --> 0:50:39.880 little bit of session work here and there. There's a 0:50:39.920 --> 0:50:42.680 lot of jingles going on in that in that area 0:50:42.680 --> 0:50:48.800 at that time. And I stayed in Dallas for another 0:50:49.360 --> 0:50:55.040 I would say maybe three to four years, just gigging. Yeah, 0:50:55.120 --> 0:50:59.279 just gigging and just kind of getting my Like it 0:50:59.360 --> 0:51:01.960 was I needed to get away from school to kind 0:51:02.000 --> 0:51:05.720 of process everything and just kind of have time to 0:51:05.719 --> 0:51:08.440 to figure out what just happened. You know, so much 0:51:08.480 --> 0:51:13.360 information that it was good to just stop the classroom 0:51:13.360 --> 0:51:16.160 stuff and just get out and play and focus on that. 0:51:16.239 --> 0:51:19.080 And I was practicing all the time, you know, it 0:51:19.200 --> 0:51:21.960 was that time of when I put it in all 0:51:22.000 --> 0:51:26.759 the hours. You know, just just I knew at some 0:51:26.840 --> 0:51:28.840 point I was going to get out and see what 0:51:28.920 --> 0:51:31.360 else I could find, you know, because because I pretty 0:51:31.400 --> 0:51:35.959 much you know, you can make a decent living, I guess, 0:51:36.560 --> 0:51:39.040 but I had I just I just wanted to see 0:51:39.080 --> 0:51:40.520 what else was out there. You know. 0:51:41.640 --> 0:51:43.279 So how did you end up going to New York? 0:51:43.600 --> 0:51:44.840 How did I end up going? 0:51:45.040 --> 0:51:47.520 Well, I mean it's the dream. You go to college 0:51:47.520 --> 0:51:50.279 for four years, you spend more years in Dallas. People 0:51:50.360 --> 0:51:52.239 always talking about going to the big city, and most 0:51:52.280 --> 0:51:53.320 don't even make the effort. 0:51:54.360 --> 0:51:57.399 Yeah, I you know, it was just time and I 0:51:57.440 --> 0:52:00.640 and I I had some friends that went to school 0:52:00.640 --> 0:52:03.840 with me that had previously moved there, so it felt like, 0:52:04.680 --> 0:52:10.160 you know, I'm gonna know a few people already. And 0:52:10.160 --> 0:52:13.439 then I just I just saved some dough It wasn't 0:52:13.480 --> 0:52:15.680 a lot, but it was. I had a little bit 0:52:15.719 --> 0:52:20.440 of a cushion there. And a guy that I went 0:52:20.480 --> 0:52:25.239 to school with, his name was Josh Was. He let 0:52:25.320 --> 0:52:27.560 me move in with him. He needed a roommate in 0:52:27.560 --> 0:52:31.239 the East Village, and I just I drove up from Dallas, 0:52:31.520 --> 0:52:34.600 brought a few things, and a couple of friends helped 0:52:34.640 --> 0:52:37.360 me unload, and there I was, you know, like I was. 0:52:38.080 --> 0:52:39.799 I knew I was going to live in Manhattan. I 0:52:39.800 --> 0:52:42.200 wasn't going to live in the other boroughs or Jersey 0:52:42.280 --> 0:52:43.800 or anything. I was going to be in the middle 0:52:43.840 --> 0:52:45.840 of it. I wanted to just walk out my door 0:52:46.640 --> 0:52:49.719 be in that city, just be there, you know, and 0:52:49.760 --> 0:52:54.400 I could walk down the street to hear any almost 0:52:54.440 --> 0:52:56.120 any night of the week. I could go here like 0:52:56.200 --> 0:52:58.880 some of my heroes play at a club, you know, 0:53:00.920 --> 0:53:05.600 So that that was incredible. But I knew I wanted 0:53:05.640 --> 0:53:07.400 to be in the city, and I was just gonna 0:53:07.920 --> 0:53:11.799 go and see what could happen. Luckily, my roommate at 0:53:11.800 --> 0:53:14.959 the time that all worked out. I was on Fifth 0:53:14.960 --> 0:53:24.520 Street between Second and Third Avenue, and uh I I 0:53:24.640 --> 0:53:30.120 ended up. I guess it was maybe six months into 0:53:30.160 --> 0:53:35.319 it or so being there that I got into a 0:53:35.320 --> 0:53:40.880 few things where I was playing. I was playing at 0:53:40.880 --> 0:53:43.680 the Bitter End on like every Sunday night they had 0:53:43.719 --> 0:53:48.040 a jam and I was asked to be like the 0:53:48.040 --> 0:53:51.560 the house drummer for the jam and that was, Oh, 0:53:52.040 --> 0:53:54.279 that was really fun because a lot of people came 0:53:54.360 --> 0:53:56.279 in and you know, it was some there was some 0:53:56.360 --> 0:54:00.319 really good players. There were something that weren't, but it 0:54:00.360 --> 0:54:02.239 was it was a great place to hang and just 0:54:02.360 --> 0:54:07.640 meet meet people. It was just just rotating, uh, you know, 0:54:07.800 --> 0:54:10.759 people just coming in and out and just playing all night. 0:54:10.840 --> 0:54:15.480 So it was really cool and a lot of stuff 0:54:15.520 --> 0:54:18.480 came out of that, you know, just meeting those people. 0:54:18.480 --> 0:54:25.400 And because you know, this is pre social media and 0:54:25.440 --> 0:54:27.520 I think it was pre cell phone. I remember having 0:54:27.680 --> 0:54:30.759 a pager in those days. You know, the pager would 0:54:30.800 --> 0:54:32.719 go off and you hope, you oh, I got a gig. 0:54:32.760 --> 0:54:35.280 You have to hurry up and call go to a payphone, 0:54:35.280 --> 0:54:42.920 you know. But yeah, I got into some situations really 0:54:43.600 --> 0:54:46.360 that was really great. I ended up getting an audition 0:54:46.400 --> 0:54:49.160 with Harry Belafonte and I got the gig and I 0:54:49.760 --> 0:54:54.160 worked with him for a couple of years on and off, 0:54:54.239 --> 0:54:58.799 going on the road. Just some Vega shows did some 0:54:59.640 --> 0:55:06.560 theater around the US, and that was great, great band, 0:55:06.800 --> 0:55:10.600 great musicians. We did a lot of eclectic music and 0:55:10.800 --> 0:55:17.360 different stuff, African music of course, all the hits and stuff. 0:55:17.480 --> 0:55:23.480 It was really fun. There was also I had a 0:55:25.200 --> 0:55:30.440 contact from North Texas with Lou Marini Blue Lou from 0:55:30.920 --> 0:55:33.759 you know, the Blues Brothers band, and you know, of 0:55:33.760 --> 0:55:36.400 course he's done a million other things, but he's certainly 0:55:36.440 --> 0:55:40.080 known for the Blues Brothers and we got to know 0:55:40.160 --> 0:55:43.759 each other in Dallas. Whenever he would come back, he 0:55:43.800 --> 0:55:46.200 has family there, he would come back and we ended 0:55:46.280 --> 0:55:49.680 up he ended up sitting in with this band that 0:55:49.719 --> 0:55:51.840 I was playing, the horn band I was telling you about, 0:55:53.600 --> 0:55:56.719 and so we kind of kept in touch a little bit. 0:55:58.719 --> 0:56:01.279 I remember the days of back in those days, we 0:56:01.320 --> 0:56:07.480 would you know, hand out business cards or it's kind 0:56:07.480 --> 0:56:10.720 of it sounds silly now, but in a demo tape, 0:56:10.760 --> 0:56:13.000 you know, a cassette tape every now and then I 0:56:13.040 --> 0:56:15.080 would hand them out and just hope for the best, 0:56:15.120 --> 0:56:18.319 you know, if someone cares enough to listen, and you 0:56:18.320 --> 0:56:22.440 know whatever. But he was one of the guys that 0:56:22.520 --> 0:56:26.520 actually responded, you know, and he dug what I when 0:56:26.520 --> 0:56:28.600 I gave him, and what he heard and I thought 0:56:28.640 --> 0:56:32.960 that was really cool. And when I got to New York, 0:56:33.960 --> 0:56:36.080 he kind of took me under his wing. He like 0:56:36.320 --> 0:56:41.440 introduced me to a lot of people and he and 0:56:41.480 --> 0:56:43.520 he got me in with the Blues Brothers. I started 0:56:43.560 --> 0:56:46.680 touring with those guys. It was like the original Blues 0:56:46.719 --> 0:56:52.799 Brothers band and I was. It was Steve Cropper, Duck 0:56:52.880 --> 0:56:55.640 Dunn was there some of the time when he wasn't 0:56:55.680 --> 0:57:01.520 There was another bass player named Eric Udell. There was 0:57:02.280 --> 0:57:07.239 you know, of course Lou on saxophone, Alan Rubin, mister 0:57:07.280 --> 0:57:12.840 fabulous Birch Johnson was on trombone, Leon Pandarvis on keys. 0:57:15.160 --> 0:57:18.040 Rusty Cloud would play keys sometimes when Leon wasn't there, 0:57:20.280 --> 0:57:25.200 Matt guitar, Murphy like all the guys. Of course, Akroyd 0:57:25.200 --> 0:57:29.440 and Belushi weren't there. There was different singers. They had 0:57:29.760 --> 0:57:33.439 a guy from New York named Tommy McDonald and Eddie 0:57:33.440 --> 0:57:37.720 Floyd knock on wood. Eddie Floyd would sing with the 0:57:38.160 --> 0:57:40.960 band and we would go to Japan. We would go 0:57:41.760 --> 0:57:46.640 all over Europe the blues festivals and various various things. 0:57:47.240 --> 0:57:50.720 People went nuts over that band, as they should. I mean, 0:57:50.760 --> 0:57:53.120 it's a party, you know. It was just like get 0:57:53.160 --> 0:57:56.200 out there and played feel good music and people love 0:57:56.280 --> 0:58:01.120 those songs. I mean, the whole Blues Brothers movie is 0:58:01.120 --> 0:58:03.640 such a phenomenon. I mean there's there's kids that still 0:58:03.640 --> 0:58:06.600 would show up dressed in the in the suits and 0:58:06.640 --> 0:58:10.200 the hat and the glasses. You know. It was so cool. Uh, 0:58:10.760 --> 0:58:15.720 it was amazing. And that was my first experience, you know, 0:58:15.840 --> 0:58:22.280 traveling the world and playing music, you know, and it 0:58:22.360 --> 0:58:25.160 was it was awesome, you know, just to play with 0:58:25.200 --> 0:58:28.720 those guys and you know, they they basically came up 0:58:28.760 --> 0:58:32.800 with with a lot of what I grew up loving 0:58:32.800 --> 0:58:36.400 and just you know, the whole Stacks thing and just 0:58:37.400 --> 0:58:43.760 all those songs. Just so much history there, you know, 0:58:44.000 --> 0:58:47.080 just to kind of get a piece of that was fun. 0:58:47.280 --> 0:58:50.120 Just to be work with those guys. It was I 0:58:50.200 --> 0:58:53.280 learned a lot, you know, it was it was great. 0:58:54.080 --> 0:58:55.960 So I had the I had that going on. I 0:58:56.000 --> 0:59:02.760 had the the the Harry Belafonte thing going on, and 0:59:02.880 --> 0:59:07.360 then I had this kind of more jazz oriented stuff, 0:59:07.560 --> 0:59:10.160 underground stuff with Wayne Krantz that I was mentioning earlier, 0:59:10.160 --> 0:59:15.080 which is how I met Donald Walter. So I was 0:59:15.120 --> 0:59:18.600 able to get into some things in New York that 0:59:18.600 --> 0:59:21.600 that it just kind of just snowballed and led to 0:59:21.680 --> 0:59:28.960 other stuff, you know, and you know, that was it 0:59:29.040 --> 0:59:31.479 was a very I just loved New York so much. 0:59:31.520 --> 0:59:35.560 I just had like this infatuation with it that I 0:59:35.560 --> 0:59:39.680 remember the first time I went there, I was I 0:59:39.720 --> 0:59:42.880 was selected to be in the McDonald's All American High 0:59:42.920 --> 0:59:46.040 School Band and I got to march in the Macy's 0:59:46.080 --> 0:59:50.520 parade on the snare drum and we had like the 0:59:50.560 --> 0:59:53.120 TV moment in front of Macy's and did our thing, 0:59:53.240 --> 0:59:55.880 and and I was just I mean, I was a 0:59:55.960 --> 0:59:58.680 junior in high school and this being in the big city, 0:59:59.400 --> 1:00:02.880 marching down street, I was in heaven. I was like, man, 1:00:03.080 --> 1:00:05.120 this is where I'm going to live. This is it, 1:00:05.440 --> 1:00:08.040 you know, I'm going to do it. And I just knew. 1:00:08.200 --> 1:00:09.880 I just knew from that point on, this is where 1:00:09.880 --> 1:00:15.320 I was going to go, you know. And so I'm 1:00:15.320 --> 1:00:17.479 just glad I did it. I'm glad I didn't chicken out, 1:00:17.920 --> 1:00:20.240 because it was definitely the most intimidating place to go, 1:00:20.520 --> 1:00:23.520 you know, at least to me. 1:00:23.600 --> 1:00:27.440 It was Okay, you're a drummer, you find your way. 1:00:28.040 --> 1:00:31.760 This is when sessions are still happening, and there are 1:00:31.760 --> 1:00:34.439 other working musicians who are not going on the road 1:00:34.520 --> 1:00:37.560 on a regular basis, So paint picture of what was 1:00:37.600 --> 1:00:40.360 going on then and what your placing it was. 1:00:42.040 --> 1:00:45.240 Well, I have to say, you know, I moved to 1:00:45.280 --> 1:00:49.160 New York around I guess it was ninety six, and 1:00:50.160 --> 1:00:54.760 I kind of missed the heyday of the session thing 1:00:54.880 --> 1:00:57.240 when when things were killing. I mean, they were just 1:00:58.280 --> 1:01:02.080 you know, these and eighties. From what I hear, it was, 1:01:02.240 --> 1:01:04.960 it was just like you would go to three or 1:01:04.960 --> 1:01:07.600 four sessions a day and just you know, just studio 1:01:07.680 --> 1:01:11.240 to studio and cunning records left and right, and I 1:01:11.280 --> 1:01:16.840 just I missed all that. And so you know, I've 1:01:17.280 --> 1:01:22.760 I've been able to do sessions more now than I 1:01:22.800 --> 1:01:25.280 did then, almost like it's kind of turned around. But 1:01:25.640 --> 1:01:28.240 in those days when I first moved to New York, 1:01:28.280 --> 1:01:31.200 I was more or less I was kind of I 1:01:31.240 --> 1:01:33.320 was doing more live work, and I was on the 1:01:33.400 --> 1:01:38.680 road all the time. And the only time I mean 1:01:38.720 --> 1:01:41.040 just wasn't I wasn't really in the city. As much 1:01:41.600 --> 1:01:45.200 as I could, I couldn't figure out a way to 1:01:45.320 --> 1:01:48.080 make it work just being in the city. I had 1:01:48.120 --> 1:01:53.040 to go on the road. So yeah, I just think 1:01:53.120 --> 1:01:57.040 missing that the era where it was really really happening 1:01:57.840 --> 1:01:59.800 was a part of it. But I also just got 1:02:00.040 --> 1:02:03.000 I just found my niche where I was just kind 1:02:03.040 --> 1:02:06.960 of this live drummer that it just seemed like that's 1:02:07.000 --> 1:02:09.920 kind of where it went, you know, without I didn't 1:02:09.920 --> 1:02:11.760 plan anything out. It just kind of went to that 1:02:11.840 --> 1:02:13.720 place where I was just going from tour to tour 1:02:14.640 --> 1:02:20.680 and the occasional session would come up. And I've done 1:02:22.120 --> 1:02:24.800 some records that I'm really proud of, you know, over 1:02:24.840 --> 1:02:27.840 the years. But it's I feel like I'm recording more 1:02:27.960 --> 1:02:29.400 now than I did then. 1:02:30.240 --> 1:02:33.800 Okay, so you're on the road. A do you like 1:02:33.920 --> 1:02:37.400 being on the road and b are you happy? Or 1:02:37.480 --> 1:02:39.560 you say I have a bigger dream than this. 1:02:45.040 --> 1:02:49.880 I love the road. I love it. I love you know. 1:02:50.880 --> 1:02:57.920 I'm older now, so I can't say I love, you know, 1:02:58.040 --> 1:03:00.760 being tired all the time and things like that. When 1:03:00.760 --> 1:03:02.440 I was you younger, it didn't matter. I could just 1:03:02.480 --> 1:03:10.200 bounce back. And but I love touring and I love 1:03:10.680 --> 1:03:13.680 playing live. I mean, that's what I really that's that's 1:03:13.720 --> 1:03:16.160 what you're getting paid for, is the show, which is 1:03:16.200 --> 1:03:17.960 just two hours out of the day, you know, and 1:03:17.960 --> 1:03:20.760 then everything else is I guess I should say it 1:03:20.760 --> 1:03:23.320 the other way you're getting paid for all the travel 1:03:23.400 --> 1:03:32.480 and and you know, dealing with all that stuff. But 1:03:32.280 --> 1:03:35.960 I but I love traveling and I love you know, 1:03:36.080 --> 1:03:39.920 I got to see the world and do things that 1:03:39.960 --> 1:03:46.120 I never thought was possible to experience. That was it's 1:03:46.160 --> 1:03:54.280 just been incredible. But I you know, I I yeah, 1:03:54.360 --> 1:03:57.480 I mean, I I've just been really I like doing both. 1:03:57.600 --> 1:04:01.240 I like having the session side of things because it's 1:04:02.440 --> 1:04:06.560 it's a lot more structured and you can experiment with 1:04:06.800 --> 1:04:11.520 sounds and and you know, if possible, if there's time, 1:04:11.600 --> 1:04:15.160 you can really really experiment with approaches and things like that, 1:04:15.200 --> 1:04:19.040 whereas live it's just about the energy and the moment 1:04:19.120 --> 1:04:22.640 with the audience, and there's there's nothing like that. I mean, 1:04:22.640 --> 1:04:24.080 that's what I love more than anything. 1:04:24.880 --> 1:04:26.560 So if you can go on the road with varying 1:04:26.680 --> 1:04:30.080 acts till you can play no more physically, you're happy. 1:04:31.960 --> 1:04:35.640 Yeah, I guess. So, Yeah, I'm just kind of taking 1:04:35.680 --> 1:04:36.640 it day by day here. 1:04:38.200 --> 1:04:41.960 Okay, so you're working with the Jazz Trio, et cetera. 1:04:42.080 --> 1:04:46.520 You get the gig in Steely Dan. That's one vertical 1:04:46.960 --> 1:04:49.680 to what do weed getting this gig in Steely Dan? 1:04:50.200 --> 1:04:53.280 Does that change your profile and create opportunities. 1:04:56.280 --> 1:04:59.360 Well day STEELYE. Dan definitely put me on the map, 1:04:59.440 --> 1:05:04.040 you know, in a much bigger way. That it's because 1:05:04.280 --> 1:05:06.800 you know, it was just the most high profile thing 1:05:06.880 --> 1:05:10.400 that I had ever been a part of, and a 1:05:10.400 --> 1:05:13.120 lot of people took notice like who is this new guy? 1:05:13.240 --> 1:05:19.080 You know, kind of came out of nowhere and it 1:05:19.240 --> 1:05:25.280 opened up doors and it still does. You know. It's 1:05:25.440 --> 1:05:30.360 it's such a It created a lot of opportunity for me, 1:05:30.680 --> 1:05:35.800 and there's just a credibility there that it puts you 1:05:35.880 --> 1:05:40.840 on a higher rank if you've worked with them, and 1:05:43.320 --> 1:05:50.080 that's that's been amazing, I mean just to have have 1:05:50.200 --> 1:05:53.800 the chance to work with those guys. But because it's 1:05:53.840 --> 1:05:57.840 it's so well revered and such a it's kind of 1:05:57.920 --> 1:06:03.000 like it's the ultimate, you know, one of them. I 1:06:03.040 --> 1:06:05.200 think of those guys, man, I think I think of 1:06:06.640 --> 1:06:10.120 Becker and Fagan is like that's to me, it's like 1:06:10.320 --> 1:06:13.360 Lennon and McCartney, I mean, the they it's the American 1:06:13.440 --> 1:06:19.000 version of that. I mean, they really just prolific songwriters 1:06:19.120 --> 1:06:23.919 and changed changed music, you know, changed the whole course 1:06:23.960 --> 1:06:27.640 of things, you know, and their whole unique story with 1:06:27.960 --> 1:06:30.800 all the session musicians, all the I mean, so many 1:06:30.880 --> 1:06:33.160 great players have played on their records, and just to 1:06:33.200 --> 1:06:36.520 be a part of that lineage of players, just to 1:06:36.560 --> 1:06:41.080 be thought of in that clubs you know, super cool, 1:06:41.720 --> 1:06:41.920 you know. 1:06:48.880 --> 1:06:51.920 Okay, So you say you played with Sting, you played 1:06:52.000 --> 1:06:55.360 with James Taylor, you played with Toto. How does that happen? 1:06:55.400 --> 1:06:58.200 You're sitting at home and they say we want you 1:06:59.040 --> 1:07:00.919 or do you come in and they feel you out, 1:07:00.960 --> 1:07:04.200 whether it's you're good, are you competing with people? Tell 1:07:04.200 --> 1:07:05.000 me a little bit more. 1:07:06.040 --> 1:07:10.640 A lot of it is word of mouth. I think 1:07:10.680 --> 1:07:12.440 a lot of it's the fact that I worked with 1:07:12.480 --> 1:07:17.480 Steely Dan. I think sometimes people would be in the 1:07:17.520 --> 1:07:20.840 audience and liked what they heard and maybe spread the 1:07:20.880 --> 1:07:25.320 word to someone. I mean, it's various things that just 1:07:25.920 --> 1:07:31.920 organically happened and the stars aligned and somehow it happened. 1:07:31.960 --> 1:07:34.720 You know. I've never had a manager. I don't have 1:07:35.120 --> 1:07:37.680 I do everything myself. I don't I don't have any help. 1:07:37.760 --> 1:07:41.760 I just and if someone's interested, they either would call 1:07:41.840 --> 1:07:45.000 me or I'd get a random email. I've always had 1:07:45.000 --> 1:07:49.480 a presence online once that existed, and that's been a 1:07:49.480 --> 1:07:53.560 great tool to be there and to be uh, you know, 1:07:53.640 --> 1:07:57.360 I'm I'm reachable that way. And yeah, I think it's 1:07:57.400 --> 1:08:04.640 just all those variousuations and uh, it's just kind of snowballs. 1:08:05.240 --> 1:08:08.600 So tell me about getting the gig with Sting and 1:08:08.640 --> 1:08:11.720 you play with these acts and then you stop playing 1:08:11.760 --> 1:08:13.760 with them. What causes the end. 1:08:17.479 --> 1:08:22.320 They don't call you back? I don't know, that's that's 1:08:22.400 --> 1:08:25.559 the you know. I think either they move on with 1:08:25.640 --> 1:08:29.559 something else or I don't really have I don't always 1:08:29.560 --> 1:08:39.240 have those answers, because yeah, I think it's uh, you 1:08:39.240 --> 1:08:43.760 know you you I guess I've wondered that. I wondered, like, uh, 1:08:45.800 --> 1:08:52.200 what what goes on in someone's head to to make changes? 1:08:52.280 --> 1:08:55.040 And that that's me that's just kind of their right 1:08:55.080 --> 1:09:02.760 to do, right, you know. But sometimes times it's just 1:09:02.840 --> 1:09:07.400 scheduling conflicts or whatever, or sometimes you just don't you know, 1:09:07.439 --> 1:09:08.559 once it's over, it's over. 1:09:09.840 --> 1:09:12.400 So how often is that they call you, and whether 1:09:12.439 --> 1:09:14.559 it be people you've worked with four other people say 1:09:14.560 --> 1:09:15.839 I just can't do it. I'm booked. 1:09:16.880 --> 1:09:21.880 It happened a lot at one point. It's it's been 1:09:24.360 --> 1:09:26.880 I mean, this whole COVID thing, you know, shut down 1:09:26.880 --> 1:09:29.479 things for a while. So I'm just it almost feels 1:09:29.479 --> 1:09:36.600 like it's still coming back, you know, but uh, it's 1:09:37.880 --> 1:09:43.280 I guess that's the hard part about being an independent musician, 1:09:43.720 --> 1:09:49.280 you know sidemen where I'm trying to schedule things and 1:09:49.280 --> 1:09:52.040 and then I know, well, this is you know, I 1:09:52.120 --> 1:09:54.400 got to keep this open, and then it's like trying 1:09:54.439 --> 1:09:57.080 to it's it becomes a mess. You know. This is 1:09:57.120 --> 1:09:59.320 when I wish I had a manager sometimes you know, 1:09:59.479 --> 1:10:05.639 to deal with it. But but there's also slow periods 1:10:05.680 --> 1:10:09.280 where you just uh waited out for the next thing 1:10:09.320 --> 1:10:16.559 to happen. So yeah, it's it's just part of of 1:10:16.920 --> 1:10:18.840 it's like an exciting part of the gig. And then 1:10:18.840 --> 1:10:21.880 it's also it sucks because you don't know what's going 1:10:21.960 --> 1:10:24.920 to happen next, But it's also exciting not knowing. Maybe 1:10:25.000 --> 1:10:26.439 at least you have to tell yourself that. 1:10:27.040 --> 1:10:32.360 You know, so, how long might it be slow? And 1:10:32.439 --> 1:10:36.680 how did you cope with COVID both emotionally and monetarily. 1:10:40.760 --> 1:10:50.880 Well, it's uh, slow periods are usually expected. Certain parts 1:10:50.920 --> 1:10:54.719 of the year are usually slow, you know, like around 1:10:54.800 --> 1:10:57.240 holiday time, at the end of the year through maybe 1:10:57.840 --> 1:11:01.960 you know the next summer. Sometimes you know, it just 1:11:02.320 --> 1:11:07.880 it just became kind of expected, but you never never 1:11:07.920 --> 1:11:11.559 in my wildest dreams that we did. Anyone expect things 1:11:11.560 --> 1:11:14.280 to shut down, the entire live music industry to just 1:11:14.320 --> 1:11:18.040 completely shut down for whatever it was. It feels like 1:11:18.080 --> 1:11:22.400 three years, you know, two years pretty much. I mean 1:11:22.400 --> 1:11:24.120 we were the first thing to go and the last 1:11:24.160 --> 1:11:30.439 to come back. And you know, it was rough, you know, 1:11:30.479 --> 1:11:35.400 it was like very It was depressing because that was 1:11:36.520 --> 1:11:40.120 what I did. I'm I'm I have to get out 1:11:40.160 --> 1:11:42.040 and play, you know, I have to. I want to 1:11:42.080 --> 1:11:47.639 move around and keep busy and and play shows. That's 1:11:47.640 --> 1:11:52.120 what I do. But I was forced to find other 1:11:52.160 --> 1:11:57.240 things to do. I was able to finally get a 1:11:57.240 --> 1:12:00.960 home studio really up and running. I'd been wanting to 1:12:01.000 --> 1:12:03.880 do that for years and just kept putting it off 1:12:03.880 --> 1:12:06.040 because I was always in the road or always had 1:12:06.040 --> 1:12:10.080 an excuse. But that's one thing that positive that came 1:12:10.120 --> 1:12:11.760 out of it. I was able to get that up 1:12:11.800 --> 1:12:14.760 and running. I had some engineers to help me, and 1:12:15.960 --> 1:12:19.160 I learned more about pro tools where I'm self sufficient. 1:12:19.160 --> 1:12:22.719 I can record drums from home and get really good sounds, 1:12:22.720 --> 1:12:26.679 and so that that's like something that was I guess 1:12:26.680 --> 1:12:31.680 a blessing that came out of it. And I have 1:12:31.800 --> 1:12:34.400 three young daughters, so that it was great to be 1:12:34.479 --> 1:12:36.360 home with them and just to be a part of 1:12:36.439 --> 1:12:39.040 their lives a lot more than I would have been. 1:12:39.760 --> 1:12:47.160 And so that was great. I love that. And you know, financially, 1:12:47.200 --> 1:12:51.640 it was it was it was a challenge. It's a 1:12:51.680 --> 1:12:54.679 long time, but it was really it felt like almost 1:12:54.680 --> 1:13:03.080 three years of not the usual state income. Luckily, I've 1:13:03.080 --> 1:13:05.680 always been a saber and I've invested and things like that. 1:13:06.120 --> 1:13:10.760 I'm not you know, that's another thing I really got 1:13:10.760 --> 1:13:16.800 into it. It's learning more about how how the financial 1:13:16.840 --> 1:13:20.599 world works and learning about all that stuff you know 1:13:20.840 --> 1:13:23.760 that doesn't really get taught. You kind of own your 1:13:23.760 --> 1:13:27.240 own with with all that. But that's been kind of 1:13:27.240 --> 1:13:32.000 fun to learn about. And but yeah, it was rough 1:13:32.160 --> 1:13:35.519 and I and I applied for some of those PPP 1:13:35.760 --> 1:13:38.400 loans and I got through it, and I had to 1:13:38.439 --> 1:13:41.120 dip into some IRA money and that was a drag, 1:13:41.680 --> 1:13:45.720 but I got us through it, you know, And had 1:13:45.720 --> 1:13:49.800 I not had that, we'd be screwed. Probably would have 1:13:49.800 --> 1:13:51.040 had to sell my house or something. 1:13:52.920 --> 1:13:56.160 Okay, And now you're talking about your endorsement deal yet 1:13:56.200 --> 1:14:00.599 with Vic Firth. To what degree do you have endorsement deals? 1:14:00.640 --> 1:14:02.639 How do those work and when did those arrive? 1:14:06.800 --> 1:14:11.759 Well, the endorsement stuff I have or with Gretch drums 1:14:13.479 --> 1:14:16.360 who I've been with since I guess twenty twelve or 1:14:16.400 --> 1:14:24.879 so Zilgin since the early days nineties, and Vic Firth sticks. 1:14:25.800 --> 1:14:28.240 I have a signature model, so I get a little 1:14:28.280 --> 1:14:30.639 bit of a royalty with the sales of that one. 1:14:31.600 --> 1:14:33.880 I also have a signature snare drum with Gretch that 1:14:34.240 --> 1:14:41.240 I get a royalty from, which is cool. But what 1:14:41.360 --> 1:14:46.439 else am I missing? Oh Evan's drumheads. And then I 1:14:46.479 --> 1:14:49.840 also have a deal with Earthworks Mics. That's what I 1:14:49.920 --> 1:14:53.000 use on the road and also at home in the studio. 1:14:54.960 --> 1:14:57.000 You can see the drums behind me. This is where 1:14:57.040 --> 1:15:06.040 I track. Actually, so it happened. You know, basically, once 1:15:06.080 --> 1:15:12.679 you get a high profile gig or you're someone these days, 1:15:12.720 --> 1:15:14.479 it's different, but at least you know, I'm old school, 1:15:14.520 --> 1:15:17.280 so back back when you you just kind of had 1:15:17.320 --> 1:15:22.920 to get a gig and have visibility, they would be 1:15:23.000 --> 1:15:27.439 interested in signing you on. And I got to know 1:15:27.520 --> 1:15:29.519 some of the guys. Being in New York, I was 1:15:29.560 --> 1:15:32.519 able to have access to to that world a little 1:15:32.560 --> 1:15:34.960 better when they would come to town for various things and 1:15:35.040 --> 1:15:37.920 got to know some of the guys that the drum 1:15:37.960 --> 1:15:43.439 companies and and so you know, it's good to have 1:15:43.479 --> 1:15:47.120 a relationship with those guys. And it's not just about 1:15:47.640 --> 1:15:51.040 getting free stuff, you know, it's it's really having a 1:15:51.080 --> 1:15:55.479 relationship and and you know you're in it together. You know, 1:15:55.520 --> 1:15:58.880 you're out there pushing their brand, and then they're also 1:15:59.360 --> 1:16:04.320 helping you with the gear. So it's and it really 1:16:04.320 --> 1:16:08.920 comes in handy when you're on the road and you're 1:16:08.920 --> 1:16:12.080 not on a tour like I've been on various tours, 1:16:12.120 --> 1:16:15.840 but different budget levels. You know, sometimes there's not a 1:16:15.880 --> 1:16:18.559 budget to bring all your stuff, so you're you're going 1:16:18.600 --> 1:16:20.760 to get backline at every gig. So it's good to 1:16:20.800 --> 1:16:24.840 have endorsements, especially in those situations, because they can help 1:16:24.880 --> 1:16:27.599 you get what you need to each venue and make 1:16:27.600 --> 1:16:29.479 sure it's what you want and that kind of thing, 1:16:29.479 --> 1:16:33.800 which can be great, but it's just an agreement, you Like, 1:16:33.840 --> 1:16:38.240 I got to know the guys and they would ask 1:16:38.320 --> 1:16:43.400 me if I was interested, or I would tell them 1:16:43.439 --> 1:16:46.240 I was interested, and you know, just work it out, 1:16:46.240 --> 1:16:48.240 work out a situation. 1:16:49.200 --> 1:16:53.280 Okay. Another thing you're into is education. Tell me about that. 1:16:54.520 --> 1:16:57.400 I've done a little bit of private teaching here and there, 1:16:57.479 --> 1:17:01.040 but I don't do a lot of it. I I 1:17:01.160 --> 1:17:03.679 don't love I don't love it. I don't love teaching. 1:17:03.800 --> 1:17:08.040 But what I did find that I did enjoy was 1:17:08.120 --> 1:17:12.000 just doing like the occasional like they call it clinics 1:17:12.120 --> 1:17:15.559 or masterclass or something like that, where it's a group 1:17:15.600 --> 1:17:19.720 of people, have an audience and it's just a one 1:17:19.800 --> 1:17:25.000 time show where I just basically I'll do some playing 1:17:25.080 --> 1:17:28.160 and I'll talk about some things and then open it 1:17:28.240 --> 1:17:30.880 up for questions, and so it just kind of goes 1:17:30.880 --> 1:17:33.920 wherever the audience takes it, you know. So it's really 1:17:34.320 --> 1:17:37.080 a good way to kind of reach the level of 1:17:37.120 --> 1:17:39.240 the people in the room where they're at, and they 1:17:39.240 --> 1:17:42.439 can kind of just interactive, you know, you can kind 1:17:42.479 --> 1:17:45.960 of feel it out and see what they might get 1:17:45.960 --> 1:17:49.479 at it, what they interest are, and hope that they 1:17:49.479 --> 1:17:52.280 can get something out of what I have there to 1:17:52.600 --> 1:17:58.200 give and say. But I used to do a lot 1:17:58.240 --> 1:18:02.599 of those. A lot of these companies that I'm involved 1:18:02.600 --> 1:18:06.360 with would sponsor tours, you know, I would do like 1:18:06.400 --> 1:18:10.840 a two week clinic tour, or if I was had 1:18:10.840 --> 1:18:15.400 a day off somewhere, we could maybe schedule something at 1:18:15.400 --> 1:18:19.400 a music store or university or school or whatever. It 1:18:19.479 --> 1:18:24.840 might be drum shop or something. So I've done a 1:18:24.880 --> 1:18:28.160 lot of those over the years, and I really enjoy it. 1:18:28.160 --> 1:18:29.920 It just doesn't seem to be a budget for it 1:18:30.160 --> 1:18:33.080 like there used to be. I think the companies have 1:18:33.160 --> 1:18:36.240 cut back on that funding that stuff. It's not that 1:18:36.840 --> 1:18:43.000 not the same. But I have enjoyed doing that, and 1:18:43.040 --> 1:18:45.960 I've done some drum camps where you spend like a 1:18:46.000 --> 1:18:51.040 week with the students at various locations. I did one 1:18:51.120 --> 1:18:54.559 in Greece a while back. I've done some in the UK, 1:18:54.800 --> 1:18:58.560 and there's there's a lot of communities, different places that 1:18:58.960 --> 1:19:02.160 do these things every year, and so they'll call different 1:19:02.160 --> 1:19:05.559 people every year to be a part of that. But 1:19:05.680 --> 1:19:09.600 that's that's probably as far as it goes I've done. 1:19:11.680 --> 1:19:14.519 I did a DVD, an instruction of DVD that came 1:19:14.560 --> 1:19:19.200 out like two thousand and eight, I think. But that's 1:19:19.640 --> 1:19:20.519 that's the gist of it. 1:19:21.280 --> 1:19:24.600 Okay. So let's say they call you to work and 1:19:24.720 --> 1:19:29.280 you're booked. Who do you tell them to call and 1:19:29.320 --> 1:19:33.000 who are your drum favorites heroes living and dead? 1:19:33.840 --> 1:19:37.160 You know, if I I'll just say I'm not available, 1:19:37.200 --> 1:19:42.080 I guess, and if they if they or if I 1:19:42.080 --> 1:19:43.920 if I think of someone that I think would be 1:19:43.920 --> 1:19:48.920 good for it, I'll certainly recommend someone. Of course, it 1:19:49.000 --> 1:19:54.160 just depends on what it is and who I think 1:19:54.240 --> 1:19:59.880 might be good for it. But as far as influences 1:20:00.479 --> 1:20:07.559 and I I I always mess with this question because 1:20:07.560 --> 1:20:11.960 there's so many I'll forget, but you know, going back 1:20:12.000 --> 1:20:19.200 to like Keith Moon and John Bonham, uh, Mitch Mitchell, 1:20:21.360 --> 1:20:29.880 Charlie Watts, like Steve Jordan, the New Orleans side of things. 1:20:29.920 --> 1:20:32.320 I love the Meters. That was a big influence to 1:20:32.400 --> 1:20:41.280 Goboo model LISTE was the drummer Great Dunner, Uh, David Garibaldi, 1:20:44.000 --> 1:20:51.160 Tower Power, Uh. In the jazz world, like, oh, there's 1:20:51.160 --> 1:20:54.280 so many I went through. Uh well in the jazz 1:20:54.280 --> 1:20:57.960 world like Tony Williams and Alvin Jones and Jack d Jeanette, 1:20:58.920 --> 1:21:06.080 Bill Stewarts and and I like a lot. Uh She's 1:21:07.160 --> 1:21:10.360 Neil Peart was one that I grew up being a 1:21:10.479 --> 1:21:16.639 huge rush band. So that was a big influence. Stuart 1:21:16.680 --> 1:21:21.839 Copeland with the Police, all the all the session guys 1:21:21.880 --> 1:21:29.200 like Steve Gadd, Bernard Purdy, Rick Morata, Ed Green like 1:21:29.240 --> 1:21:31.360 all these these are some of the ones that are 1:21:31.400 --> 1:21:36.599 on all these Steely Dan records, you know, because being 1:21:36.680 --> 1:21:40.400 being a part of that is, like I've always said, 1:21:40.400 --> 1:21:43.519 it's like the greatest drum school, Like because there's so 1:21:43.640 --> 1:21:46.559 many great players on all those tracks from all those 1:21:46.600 --> 1:21:51.400 records that getting to play them you're you're kind of 1:21:51.600 --> 1:21:56.160 channeling them in a way night after night, but but 1:21:56.280 --> 1:21:59.160 also making it your own. At the same time, you're 1:21:59.200 --> 1:22:01.639 kind of like paying homage to that what they were 1:22:01.640 --> 1:22:03.559 doing that day in the studio because it's so much 1:22:03.960 --> 1:22:06.559 a part of the track, all those details that are 1:22:06.560 --> 1:22:11.000 involved and the feel of it and how it all 1:22:11.000 --> 1:22:14.080 works together in the rhythm section, everybody's part. You know, 1:22:14.120 --> 1:22:16.639 there's a focus there. But then it kind of turns 1:22:16.680 --> 1:22:18.559 over the years, it's turned into me kind of doing 1:22:18.600 --> 1:22:23.040 my version of it. It just morphs into that over time. 1:22:24.040 --> 1:22:26.439 But in the beginning, I was studying another records. Man, 1:22:26.560 --> 1:22:29.599 just you know, all those Steely Dan records, and there's 1:22:29.640 --> 1:22:36.960 so many great great tracks. There's Dave Weckel, There's there's 1:22:36.960 --> 1:22:40.719 Dennis Chambers and Vinnie Kelly Uda, all these guys. Those 1:22:40.720 --> 1:22:42.840 were like when I was in high school, those were 1:22:42.840 --> 1:22:47.800 like everyone was listening to those those three guys. There's 1:22:47.840 --> 1:22:50.240 so many man, I could, I'm gonna. 1:22:50.840 --> 1:22:54.280 Okay, well believe it at that, So we don't. Less 1:22:54.360 --> 1:22:57.000 we talk about it, the more everybody's left out will 1:22:57.000 --> 1:23:00.400 feel more comfortable. So we're not working with Steel Dan. 1:23:00.520 --> 1:23:03.080 If you go on your website, you're doing other gigs. 1:23:03.600 --> 1:23:06.160 What are you doing when you're not working with Steely Dan. 1:23:06.200 --> 1:23:10.160 We're going to go out with the Eagles momentarily and 1:23:10.240 --> 1:23:12.120 anything else booked down the pike. 1:23:13.880 --> 1:23:15.880 I do a lot of sessions from home. That's what 1:23:15.920 --> 1:23:18.519 I've been doing a lot of and that's been great 1:23:18.840 --> 1:23:21.160 and really nice because it's kind of on my own, 1:23:23.479 --> 1:23:26.280 something on time, really and it's kind of nice to 1:23:26.320 --> 1:23:29.800 have a little business from home and get to play 1:23:29.800 --> 1:23:33.960 a lot of different types of music. And I just 1:23:34.000 --> 1:23:39.880 get contacted online from various people from really all over 1:23:39.920 --> 1:23:43.519 the world. It's it really is amazing. It freaks me 1:23:43.560 --> 1:23:46.240 out that this is possible, that you can just send 1:23:46.280 --> 1:23:48.640 your tracks, you know, I know it's I'm kind of 1:23:48.680 --> 1:23:51.120 late to the game, but but it's it's really cool. 1:23:53.240 --> 1:23:57.000 I do a lot of that. I when I'm home, 1:23:57.280 --> 1:24:00.000 I do if I'm not on the road, I'm basically 1:24:00.120 --> 1:24:05.840 we doing the dad thing. I have three three young daughters, 1:24:05.000 --> 1:24:10.759 and my wife Lynn, who you know, we just we're 1:24:10.880 --> 1:24:13.320 just kind of They keep us so busy, man, It's 1:24:13.400 --> 1:24:15.240 just so much going on in their lives, and I 1:24:15.360 --> 1:24:16.800 try to be a part of it as much as 1:24:16.800 --> 1:24:22.439 I can to be there. If I'm home, I'm there, 1:24:22.520 --> 1:24:24.360 you know. So that's a lot. 1:24:25.000 --> 1:24:27.760 But you're also on the road, not with Steely Dan. 1:24:29.040 --> 1:24:32.639 Yeah right. I did a tour with Christopher Cross this summer, 1:24:33.200 --> 1:24:37.160 which was great, a lot of fun. I did you 1:24:37.200 --> 1:24:40.040 know the jazz thing comes up every now and then 1:24:40.080 --> 1:24:42.040 I was in Japan at the Blue Note with with 1:24:42.240 --> 1:24:46.960 Robin Ford and Bill Evans, Darryl Jones from the Stones, 1:24:47.280 --> 1:24:52.120 I'm bass and that was so much fun. We were 1:24:52.160 --> 1:24:54.600 there earlier this year. I even did a tour with 1:24:54.680 --> 1:24:58.200 Wayne the Krantz Trio with Tim Lavay. We were out 1:24:58.280 --> 1:25:01.200 earlier this year in Europe. So, I mean, there's always 1:25:01.200 --> 1:25:07.519 stuff going on and it's fun. I like, I like 1:25:07.640 --> 1:25:10.519 changing it up. I like I like doing different things, 1:25:10.960 --> 1:25:14.320 so it just keeps things fresh and fun. 1:25:14.920 --> 1:25:19.320 Okay, so let's just assume there's no work. Will you 1:25:19.479 --> 1:25:22.080 wait for work to play or do you play every day? 1:25:24.000 --> 1:25:25.559 Back in the day, I would play a lot, but 1:25:25.680 --> 1:25:29.240 now it's it's kind of I play if I if 1:25:29.280 --> 1:25:33.559 I have the work, because otherwise I'm I'm busy with 1:25:33.600 --> 1:25:34.880 the kiddos and stuff. You know. 1:25:36.280 --> 1:25:38.840 So let's say there was no work for two weeks, 1:25:38.880 --> 1:25:40.840 do you ever get a Handkory Man, I got to play? 1:25:41.479 --> 1:25:43.200 Or waiting for the call or the email. 1:25:44.200 --> 1:25:48.439 Uh, I'll play at that point, I'll probably play a 1:25:48.479 --> 1:25:53.599 little bit. You know, I can't be without it too long. 1:25:53.760 --> 1:25:57.240 But but back in the old days, when I was younger, man, 1:25:57.240 --> 1:26:00.720 it was like I would flip out if I wasn't 1:26:00.760 --> 1:26:03.599 playing every single day. I mean, you know, it's funny 1:26:03.600 --> 1:26:08.000 how things change, But yeah, I was. It was extreme, 1:26:08.840 --> 1:26:09.960 really ridiculous. 1:26:11.120 --> 1:26:13.760 Okay, Keith, I want to thank you for taking this 1:26:13.920 --> 1:26:16.920 time to talk to me and my audience. How long 1:26:16.960 --> 1:26:18.960 are you going on on the road with Steely Dan? 1:26:19.040 --> 1:26:20.599 How far out is that booked? 1:26:21.680 --> 1:26:29.559 Right now? It's just September through November, and we start 1:26:29.600 --> 1:26:31.760 rehearsals next week in New York and then we'll be 1:26:31.800 --> 1:26:35.360 out Steely Dan and the Eagles, which should be a 1:26:35.360 --> 1:26:40.639 lot of fun and killer night of music and yeah, 1:26:40.720 --> 1:26:44.040 and then we'll see what happens after that. Hopefully there's more. 1:26:44.040 --> 1:26:47.280 That's for sure. If you go to see Keith, you'll 1:26:47.320 --> 1:26:49.960 know it's him behind the act. He's that dynamic and 1:26:50.000 --> 1:26:52.759 that impressive in an event. Thanks again, Keith. 1:26:53.240 --> 1:26:55.840 Thanks for having me. I really appreciate the interest. Man. 1:26:55.920 --> 1:27:00.080 I'm a big fan and follow your newsletter and have 1:27:00.240 --> 1:27:03.240 for years, and as does my wife, so it's really 1:27:03.280 --> 1:27:05.840 an honor to be with you today. Man, Thank you well. 1:27:05.840 --> 1:27:08.200 It's great. I'm a huge fan of your music too. 1:27:09.040 --> 1:27:11.680 Until next time. This is Bob Leftstats