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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is drummer Keith Carlog. Keith, how'd you

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Speaker 1: get the gig with Steely Dan?

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Speaker 2: I was living in New York and playing with a

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Speaker 2: guitar player by the name of Wayne Krantz, who an

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Speaker 2: incredible guitar player. We had a trio that we were

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Speaker 2: playing at the fifty five Bar in New York, this

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Speaker 2: little die bar every Thursday, and it was myself Tim

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Speaker 2: LeFave and on bass and Wayne Krantz on guitar. Wayne

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Speaker 2: had played with Steely Dan in ninety six on their

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Speaker 2: tour I think it was the Art Crimes tour, and

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Speaker 2: so they were already aware of his music, fans of

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Speaker 2: his music, and they came out to hear us on occasion.

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Speaker 2: Donald and Walter both came at various times to hear

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Speaker 2: the band, and at one point I remember Wayne telling

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Speaker 2: me you won't believe this man, but Donald wants to

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Speaker 2: play with us. He wants to sit in and play

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Speaker 2: Rose with us one night, and I was like, I

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Speaker 2: was freaking out. It was like, this is so cool.

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Speaker 2: And I think they got together and learned some of

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Speaker 2: the music together, some of the heads and things that

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Speaker 2: would would help to prepare or whatever. And so that's

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Speaker 2: it happened one night on a Thursday night, and it

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Speaker 2: was probably late nineties. I was I'd been to New

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Speaker 2: York maybe maybe a year and a half at that point.

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Speaker 2: I had moved from Texas where I went to Cool

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Speaker 2: and he played the entire night and I remember him

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Speaker 2: sitting right in front of me. It was a small

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Speaker 2: little club. I don't know if you know of it,

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Speaker 2: but it's a tiny little dive bar, but it's it's

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Speaker 2: got a lot of history and you know, kind of

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Speaker 2: a New York legendary place, you know, just where you

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Speaker 2: can just play music, play whatever you want, people come

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Speaker 2: and listen, and really great vibe there anyway, And I

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Speaker 2: think that night will Lee was on bass because Tim

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Speaker 2: was out of town, couldn't make the gig, so Willie

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Speaker 2: was playing bass, myself, Wayne and Donald on Rhodes. And

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Speaker 2: it was one of those pinch yourself moments for me,

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Speaker 2: where you know, I'm playing with three of my heroes, really,

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Speaker 2: you know, and you know, like I said, I'd only

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Speaker 2: been in New York for a little while, and so

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Speaker 2: it was incredible, had a great time and and that

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Speaker 2: was it. And then later, you know, like I said,

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Speaker 2: Walter was also coming down to hear us from time

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Speaker 2: to time, and you know, never thought it would turn

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Speaker 2: into anything. I didn't know, but they invited us to

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Speaker 2: play or to come to their studio and record this band,

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Speaker 2: the Wayne Crench Trio. And it was a studio they

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Speaker 2: had at the time on the Upper East Side in

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Speaker 2: nineties somewhere and called River Sound. And we went in

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Speaker 2: and Donald and Walter were both there. They were kind

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Speaker 2: of more or less producing it. From what it seemed like,

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Speaker 2: we recorded all day long and we're getting some sounds

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Speaker 2: and I can remember working with Walter and some of

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Speaker 2: the drum sounds in the room and doing some tunings

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Speaker 2: things and changing some things and experimenting a little bit,

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Speaker 2: and and that was amazing, you know, just hanging with

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Speaker 2: them and getting to know them a little bit and

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Speaker 2: seeing how they work in the studio and just it

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Speaker 2: was it was incredible. And it was maybe I don't

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Speaker 2: know how much longer it had been a while they

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Speaker 2: were going in the studio to record a song for

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Speaker 2: Joni Mitchell tribute record, and they were recording the song

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Speaker 2: Carrie from Blue and they asked me to come in.

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Speaker 2: I got called from the contractor, and of course I

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Speaker 2: was geeking out, like, oh my god, it's crazy because

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Speaker 2: just to be asked, you know, is one thing, but

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Speaker 2: then if they actually use what you do, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's like a big feather in the cap for a musician,

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Speaker 2: you know, to be a part of a steely dan whatever,

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Speaker 2: you know. So we I remember we got the the

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Speaker 2: track that day, got the rhythm track. They were just

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Speaker 2: wanting to get the drums, nice and consistent, solid track

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Speaker 2: and then they could just build from there. But I

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Speaker 2: think we got a nice rhythm track with everyone playing.

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Speaker 2: I remember Donald playing roads, Walter was playing bass, wish

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Speaker 2: I could remember, and I think John Harrington was there

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Speaker 2: on guitar. Could have been Humocracken as well. Anyway, my

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Speaker 2: memory it's not perfect there, but it was. It was

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Speaker 2: an amazing session. I just I felt pretty good about it,

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Speaker 2: and they weren't. They were into it. They finished the

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Speaker 2: song out. I don't think that that it ended up

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Speaker 2: being used. I remember that song because I guess they

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Speaker 2: changed the ginger and the lyrics or something to fit

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Speaker 2: the mail that I found out she didn't like it.

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Speaker 2: I asked all about that at one time. I guess

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Speaker 2: she wasn't. She didn't like it, so they didn't use

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Speaker 2: it for the record. That song actually reappeared on the

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Speaker 2: internet after twenty years. It was I don't think it

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Speaker 2: was ever heard, and I found it and some people

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Speaker 2: posted it and I asked Donald about it, and he

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Speaker 2: told me that story that I don't think she liked that.

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Speaker 2: We changed the lyrics, you know, a little bit to

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Speaker 2: fit you know, a mail instead of an email point

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Speaker 2: of view or something like that. And then that was

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Speaker 2: my first experience recording with them for real, and you know,

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Speaker 2: if that was it, I was happy with that, you know,

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Speaker 2: that was that was incredible. Then, you know, I guess

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Speaker 2: it was another I don't know, another year or so

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Speaker 2: or less. They were going to do a new record,

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Speaker 2: and they I think they really liked the process of

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Speaker 2: just coming in and getting the rhythm track and then

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Speaker 2: finishing it out, you know, finishing out the song right

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Speaker 2: away using the same rhythm section we would do. We

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Speaker 2: would come in and they asked me to record a

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Speaker 2: little bit more for this record. We'd come in and

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Speaker 2: do like two or three tracks at a time, and

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Speaker 2: they would you know, just basically trying to get a

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Speaker 2: nice rhythm track they could build from for this record

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Speaker 2: that would end up being everything must go that. I

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Speaker 2: can't remember what year it came out, maybe two thousand

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Speaker 2: and two or three. So it was one of those

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Speaker 2: things where I didn't know if I would get called back,

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Speaker 2: didn't know, you know, what to expect. But they kept

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Speaker 2: calling the same guys back, and it was turning into

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Speaker 2: a whole thing, a whole process where we would do

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Speaker 2: two or three songs at a time, go away, they'd

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Speaker 2: finish them out and then start again with another batch

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Speaker 2: of songs like that, and so that was that was great.

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Speaker 2: It was really just incredible, you know, just to be

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Speaker 2: a part of that in the studio. You know, they're

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Speaker 2: kind of known for bringing in rhythm section after rhythm

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Speaker 2: section and changing things up. This was, you know, the

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Speaker 2: first time in their history where they just kind of

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Speaker 2: stuck with one group of guys, you know, for the

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Speaker 2: core of the tracks. So that was pretty exciting to

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Speaker 2: be to be there as a part of that. And

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Speaker 2: then that we finished it out and you know, after

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Speaker 2: a course of many months, I remember nine to eleven

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Speaker 2: happening somewhere in the middle of that, and there was

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Speaker 2: a pause for a while, But I got a call

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Speaker 2: from Walter Becker before that they were going to go

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Speaker 2: out on the road in two thousand and three, and

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Speaker 2: he asked me if I wanted to to go tour

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Speaker 2: with them, and of course, you know, I was yes,

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Speaker 2: And so that's kind of how you know, that's kind

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Speaker 2: of how all it came about. It was just like

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Speaker 2: one step at a time and it just kind of

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Speaker 2: snowballed into this thing where we it just became you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of I guess comfortable working together, and we had

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Speaker 2: a lot of time to kind of get to know

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Speaker 2: one another and work together and feel things out. And

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Speaker 2: so they you know, asked me that was a two

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Speaker 2: thousand and three tour, and I've I've been on every

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Speaker 2: tour ever since since two thousand and three.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back to the making of the album. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty much a mystery of what really went on

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Speaker 1: in the studio. You know, Walter ultimately produced Donald fagan

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Speaker 1: solo album. Who was in control and what was the process?

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Speaker 2: Like I would say they were both equally in control.

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Speaker 2: They would usually send me some kind of a demo

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Speaker 2: ahead of time, and if not, they'd play it in

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Speaker 2: the control room. Before we would go out and try

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Speaker 2: to track something. But it's most of the time I'd

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Speaker 2: get something ahead of time just to listen to. It

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Speaker 2: might have been something Donald just programmed in garage band

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Speaker 2: or something like that, you know, just just to have

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Speaker 2: the idea down. And there was always a chart, you know.

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Speaker 2: I went to music school, so I could read, so

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Speaker 2: that's good, and so I would just kind of prepare

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Speaker 2: mentally about what I might want to do and just

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Speaker 2: have some ideas. But we would go in and just

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Speaker 2: start tracking. I mean, and I think it wasn't a

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Speaker 2: lot of direction at first. It was just let's just

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Speaker 2: play and we would we would turn on the there

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Speaker 2: was alway it's always a click. We'd play along to

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Speaker 2: the click and get get a nice groove happening before

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Speaker 2: rolling tape, which I always thought, that's really cool, you know,

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Speaker 2: I had never done that before where you're you know,

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Speaker 2: usually it's just click in and go. We would just

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Speaker 2: kind of play for a while, kind of lock in

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Speaker 2: as a band, you know, until Donald was ready, and

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Speaker 2: then he lipped his hand and give the engineer the

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Speaker 2: go ahead to turn to start rolling tape. And then

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Speaker 2: we'd stopped for like one second and I'd counted off

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Speaker 2: and you know, your body's kind of into the groove

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Speaker 2: and everyone's kind of feeling it so that we can

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Speaker 2: just lock in from the start, which was pretty, uh

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Speaker 2: fascinating idea. But they were both you know, Donald was

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Speaker 2: playing roads well, Walter was playing bass. It felt like

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Speaker 2: we were just kind of a rhythm section, you know,

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Speaker 2: working through the tunes. And it was it was a

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Speaker 2: lot of fun. It just felt like musicians playing together.

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Speaker 2: It didn't feel like maybe what you hear, you know,

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Speaker 2: the stories back in the day where they're you know,

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Speaker 2: in there like heckling the musicians or something, you know,

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Speaker 2: and uh, it was. It was cool. It was maybe

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Speaker 2: they were just trying some you know, new ways of

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Speaker 2: recording and uh and it it was. It was great.

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Speaker 2: It was just great to be there, you know, part

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Speaker 2: of that whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So tell me about if let's assume you got

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Speaker 1: a demo, how would you literally prepare before you went in.

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Speaker 2: Just listening through? You know, I, if I don't have

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Speaker 2: a chart, I would try to just write down some

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Speaker 2: notes and things to remember, maybe some ideas in my

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Speaker 2: you know what, just what just pops up right away,

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Speaker 2: whatever my intuition might be that would sound good for

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Speaker 2: the track. And I really, as I got deeper into it,

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Speaker 2: I realized that, you know, if I just stayed pretty

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Speaker 2: much with what the demo was doing, that they were

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Speaker 2: they were with that, like they just wanted a consistent,

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Speaker 2: just bed of groove that they could they could build on. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't always know, and I didn't know

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Speaker 2: what the vocal line might be or what they're going

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Speaker 2: to add to it later, you know, whether it's horns

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Speaker 2: or or other parts that might come in later. So

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Speaker 2: in a way, not knowing that you kind of you

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Speaker 2: don't want to get in the way of things while

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Speaker 2: you're recording. So I think what I what I realized

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Speaker 2: what that worked was just playing a nice you know,

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Speaker 2: just solid maybe start with what the demo was playing

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Speaker 2: drum wise, and just kind of pick out what that

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Speaker 2: groove is or what that pattern might be, and just

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Speaker 2: start there and then let it evolve if need be,

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Speaker 2: or whatever ideas that may they may have or I

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Speaker 2: may have. But for the most part it seemed to

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Speaker 2: work to just just kind of stay there and.

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Speaker 1: To what agree with the ultimately give you direction.

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Speaker 2: You know, just it was more always about feel. It

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Speaker 2: was always like it wasn't necessary a lot of particular

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Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't technical. It was just trying to

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Speaker 2: get the thing to feel right the way that they

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Speaker 2: wanted it to feel. It's always about the groove and

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Speaker 2: just a consistent groove that's happening that they really wanted.

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Speaker 2: And so that was my ultimate goal. I didn't want

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Speaker 2: to try to be too clever with it, you know,

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Speaker 2: just try to make it feel good, keep it simple

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Speaker 2: for the most part, and just have a bed of

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Speaker 2: something for them.

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Speaker 1: Okay, do you have a special recording kit and what

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Speaker 1: do you bring to the studio?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Man, it depends on what the session is or

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Speaker 2: what I think might be needed. I mean I generally

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Speaker 2: have just basic, you know, five piece kit, kick drum,

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Speaker 2: snare drum, maybe three toms, maybe four toms, you know,

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Speaker 2: and and that's that's generally what what I'm used to playing.

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Speaker 2: Nothing too too crazy, it's pretty standard. I may change

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Speaker 2: the snare drum depending on the track what might sound good,

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Speaker 2: you know, sometimes be feer snares kind of adds a

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Speaker 2: weight to the track to make it feel a little

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Speaker 2: weightier and pulled back, whereas a higher pitch snare can

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Speaker 2: kind of push things forward or just sound a little

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Speaker 2: bit more, you know, right in the middle of the

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Speaker 2: bead kind of things like that. But you know, other

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Speaker 2: than that, I might change the tunings, what things. You

247
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Speaker 2: know that Steely Dan likes things to be pretty dry,

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Speaker 2: so I would have everything muffled up pretty well. Some

249
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Speaker 2: people like it more open, meaning things ring out, you know,

250
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Speaker 2: the drums just ring and do their thing more and

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Speaker 2: kind of resonate. So depending on the music, depending on

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Speaker 2: what they want, or if they just want me to

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Speaker 2: do my thing, that's I kind of it just varies,

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Speaker 2: you know, I just have to figure out what's going

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Speaker 2: to work on that day.

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Speaker 1: So people always hear about tuning drums. What exactly is

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Speaker 1: tuning drums?

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Speaker 2: Ugh, it's really just I'm not scientific about it. To me,

259
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,200
Speaker 2: it's like it's really for me, it's just finding something

260
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Speaker 2: that feels good, that has a good bounce, you know,

261
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,440
Speaker 2: a good feel when I play it. But basically it's

262
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,120
Speaker 2: just the tension of the head. So you just want

263
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,960
Speaker 2: to get a nice tone between the top and the

264
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,760
Speaker 2: bottom head that works well together. And every drum kind

265
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Speaker 2: of has a sweet spot range of the tone that

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Speaker 2: sounds good naturally, So you just kind of find that

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Speaker 2: whatever that drum wants to do. But yeah, I don't

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Speaker 2: think about it too much. I'm not one of those

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Speaker 2: people that tunes them to notes or anything specific. I

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Speaker 2: just know where I like it, and it's mostly about

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Speaker 2: the feel of it. I don't like it to be

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Speaker 2: fuddy and just feel like a pillow. I also don't

273
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Speaker 2: like it to feel like a table. I kind of

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Speaker 2: find the middle spot, you know, where it kind of

275
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Speaker 2: has a bounce, more like a rubber feel when you

276
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Speaker 2: play at your stick comes back, you know. That's what

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Speaker 2: I like. Yeah, it's just everyone has their way of

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Speaker 2: doing things. It's very a personal thing and I just

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Speaker 2: I just kind of wing it. After being in New

280
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Speaker 2: York for twenty something years, I played so many drum

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Speaker 2: sets that were trashed in clubs and where you just

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Speaker 2: go in or rehearsal halls or whatever and you just

283
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Speaker 2: have to deal, you know. I used to be really

284
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Speaker 2: particular when I was younger, had to be exactly right,

285
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Speaker 2: you know, or I'm not going to be comfortable. But

286
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Speaker 2: I got to the point where, oh man, it doesn't

287
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Speaker 2: even matter. Whatever's easy and I'll make this work. And

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Speaker 2: you know, they don't take care of anything in those clubs.

289
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Speaker 2: So it's like you don't know what are going to get.

290
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Speaker 2: So I've learned to just make it work, you know.

291
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Speaker 2: I'll figure out a way to make them sound the

292
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Speaker 2: best I can. And a lot of it's, you know,

293
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Speaker 2: it's really in the player. It's not really just like

294
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Speaker 2: with any instrument, it's it's the player that makes it

295
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,520
Speaker 2: makes it sound, you know.

296
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Speaker 1: And are you an equipment geek? Do you have tons

297
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,680
Speaker 1: of drums? Very relatively simple? What are you own?

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Speaker 2: Well, this this room right here, I would show you

299
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Speaker 2: if I could, but I don't want to mess up

300
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:34,080
Speaker 2: with the camera. But I have I have a lot

301
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Speaker 2: of snare drums because snare drums kind of are important

302
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,119
Speaker 2: when you're recording as far as getting different different sounds

303
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Speaker 2: and different vibes for the track. But I have I

304
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:50,320
Speaker 2: have some old kits that I've collected. But I'm not

305
00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,959
Speaker 2: a crazy vintage guy. But I do have a few things,

306
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,399
Speaker 2: some old Gretch kids that I've collected. I play Gretch

307
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Speaker 2: most of the time now, and uh, you know, I'd

308
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,080
Speaker 2: say I have like three kits at home that I

309
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,359
Speaker 2: interchange when I record from home, and then I don't know,

310
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:13,200
Speaker 2: I probably thirty snare drums or more. And I keep

311
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:18,480
Speaker 2: a kit in New York. And you know, other than that,

312
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 2: there's there's cartage places. If I'm traveling, I can use

313
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Speaker 2: their stuff or whatever, you know. But yeah, I have well,

314
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Speaker 2: I have my my touring kit as well, that's in

315
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Speaker 2: New York that just stays there with with Steelee van Skier.

316
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, i'd see there's like five or six kits

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Speaker 2: all together. So I'm not crazy, oh man, I just

318
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,720
Speaker 2: am a fan of the sound of them. I'm a

319
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Speaker 2: fan of the history. You know, a lot of my

320
00:19:52,800 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 2: favorite drummers played Dretch, so you know, like Mix Mitchell, like, uh,

321
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,439
Speaker 2: lots of lots of the greats. You know. I went

322
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 2: through a jazz phase in school, so I was really

323
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,199
Speaker 2: into Elvin Jones and Tony Williams and and uh, you

324
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,840
Speaker 2: know a lot of the jazz guys played Gretch. It's

325
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 2: an American company that kind of there there they uh

326
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Speaker 2: the Gretch building in Brooklyn. I used to see all

327
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 2: the time crossing the Williamsburg Bridge. The building is still

328
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 2: there and it says Gretch on it and and that's

329
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 2: kind of where they started when they came over from Germany.

330
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Speaker 2: The family, and it's just a really cool story, you know.

331
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 2: They they it's just a classy uh vibe that they

332
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,440
Speaker 2: have that I that I like. And it's they had

333
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,880
Speaker 2: these really thin shells that had this resonance that they're

334
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 2: known for, and now they make lots of different stuff.

335
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 2: What they're making now it's just as good as back

336
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 2: in the day, and so that's another plus. But yeah,

337
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 2: it's just taste. And I've just been a Gretch fan.

338
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 2: Every time I record, I usually use Gretch, even with

339
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 2: Seely Dan.

340
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 1: So what is the difference between the different brands in

341
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,639
Speaker 1: terms of sound and feel?

342
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:21,159
Speaker 2: Well, these days, you know, everyone makes really high quality stuff.

343
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:21,639
Speaker 1: It's just.

344
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 2: What you get used to. There's like an organic openness

345
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 2: about Gretch. For me, that's they're not trying too hard

346
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 2: to be high tech, Like they found something that worked

347
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 2: and just stuck with it. From back in the I

348
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:44,880
Speaker 2: would say, you know, sixties and seventies eras, and that's

349
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 2: like all my favorite music is from that era, sixties

350
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 2: and seventies and some of the eighties, and it just

351
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 2: a lot of those recordings in those days were Gretch

352
00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 2: and you just kind of, you know, I think that

353
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 2: that they you know, they just found something that worked,

354
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 2: you know, and it just it just kind of it

355
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 2: just stayed the same, and it just has that vibe.

356
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 2: It has that like I don't know, it's like a

357
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 2: warm tone that I really, I really dig, you know.

358
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 1: And what about symbols and heads.

359
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of choices out there, but

360
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,919
Speaker 2: I've always been a Silgian guy who loves it. You know.

361
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 2: That's just what I've always played, you know. You you

362
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:34,919
Speaker 2: you kind of want to do what your heroes do

363
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 2: when you're young. You grow up and you you you

364
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 2: do notice those things, especially if you're as into it

365
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 2: as I was growing up and just wanted so hungry

366
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,239
Speaker 2: for all the information, and you just kind of at

367
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,880
Speaker 2: first you copy everything and then you figure out what

368
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 2: you're going to do with it all. And part of

369
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,360
Speaker 2: it is the gear, you know. So Xilgion is kind

370
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 2: of a set of standard, just like gretched it for me.

371
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 2: And then there's in the in the head realm, there's

372
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 2: there's there's only a few companies that are out there

373
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 2: that that are just kind of set the standard as well,

374
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 2: with Remo or Evans is really great and I use

375
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 2: Evans now, and it's just whatever is easy to you know,

376
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 2: use her friendly and and they're not trying too hard

377
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,199
Speaker 2: to be you know, because it's just drums, you know,

378
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 2: like it doesn't have to be rocket scientists making this stuff.

379
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 2: It's just once you find something that works, that's just

380
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 2: how I am. I just I stick with it what

381
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:35,479
Speaker 2: I know.

382
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: And what is the life span of the head?

383
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 2: Uh, It depends on if I'm bashing my brains out

384
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 2: or if I'm just playing uh, you know more normal.

385
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 2: Depends on the situation, but it can on the road,

386
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 2: it can last you know, it's air drum is going

387
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 2: to go quicker because you're playing it more so those

388
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 2: can last a show or maybe two if I'm lucky,

389
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 2: if it's a high energy, hard hitting thing if it's

390
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 2: if it's not, they can last months. You know. It

391
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 2: just depends on what's happening. But yeah, it varies, i'd say.

392
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,880
Speaker 1: And what about the sticks?

393
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 2: The sticks they last a long time for me, I

394
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: don't really I'm not a I don't break sticks a

395
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 2: lot and I never have. And a lot of it

396
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 2: I think has to do with my technique. You know,

397
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 2: I'm not like I'm not hitting as hard as it

398
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 2: may look. I just use a lot of motion, a

399
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 2: lot of lift and motion, but I'm not The physics

400
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,719
Speaker 2: of it is more about the force behind it. But

401
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 2: I'm not like bashing into into the drum, you know,

402
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 2: I'm letting it rebound and it's I'm getting a big

403
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 2: sound because the momentum behind it. So it's just something

404
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 2: I've worked on many for many years and tried to

405
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 2: figure out a way to get a big sound without

406
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 2: getting tired and hitting too hard. And what about the

407
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 2: width of the stick? The width of the stick, I

408
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 2: don't know. I have a size that I use, actually

409
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: have a stick, a signature stick with Vic Firth that

410
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 2: I use, and it's it's probably somewhere in the middle.

411
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 2: It's not a tiny jazzy thing it's or a huge

412
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 2: rock thing. It's kind of in the middle. I don't

413
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 2: really know the diameter or the I don't really know

414
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 2: the details. But it feels good, it works, and the

415
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 2: beat of it, it's not too thick. It sounds good

416
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 2: on the symbols, and you know, I found something I like.

417
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to Steely Dan. Granted you've been

418
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 1: working with him for twenty odd years, but the band

419
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: decides to go on the road. How much rehearsal is there.

420
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 2: The first few tours we would rehearse probably two weeks

421
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 2: with just the rhythm section, and then another few I

422
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 2: don't know, I'm trying to think it could have been

423
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 2: more than that, which is the rhythm section including Donald Walter,

424
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 2: and then then I guess the horns and singers meaning

425
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: the background singers would come in like another two weeks

426
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 2: after that, and we would do you know, I would

427
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 2: say five to six weeks of rehearsing if I remember correctly.

428
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 2: And then over the years as this band, it's been

429
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 2: a lot of the same personnel for a long time.

430
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 2: Now as we kind of started working more and more

431
00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: in the later years, you know, it wouldn't rehearse as much.

432
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 2: It would come together a lot quicker. So now we

433
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 2: will just do maybe maybe five days with them section

434
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 2: and three days with everyone else and then and then

435
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 2: go out. But there was a time where where they

436
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: when I first started working with them, they would do

437
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 2: a one long tour and then take a couple of

438
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 2: years off. So it I was lucky to find some

439
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 2: things in there that worked out for me, some incredible situations,

440
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 2: you know, I was able to work with with staying

441
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 2: for a couple of years, and then there's a couple

442
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 2: of tours with James Taylor in there in between Steely

443
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: Van working. There was what else. I did a tour

444
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 2: with John Mayer. I did a tour with h Toto

445
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 2: a little bit. Most recently Christopher Cross. A lot of

446
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: a lot of great a lot of a lot of

447
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 2: this music that, like I said, is kind of coming

448
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: from that A lot of it's coming from that same era,

449
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 2: you know, which is the stuff that I love when

450
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 2: they used to make those records that were so crafted,

451
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 2: you know, with all the session musicians, and I love

452
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 2: all that stuff. But yeah, it's it's pretty. It's kind

453
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,239
Speaker 2: of turned into a machine after all the years. So

454
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 2: we we don't we don't have to rehearse as much.

455
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 2: It usually depends on how much time has been between

456
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 2: the last time we played. You know, I guess Donald

457
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 2: will decide how much how much time we need to

458
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: feel comfortable.

459
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: And what about repertoire? Is Donald, you know you're gonna

460
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: rehearse everything you're gonna play. Is he gonna pull some

461
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: deep thing out? You're gonna play the same thing all

462
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: the time.

463
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 2: You know, it's kind of it's it's changed over the years,

464
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: you know, because there's there's a set there's a standard

465
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: set list. I would say that has a lot of

466
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: the same tunes, and then he'll switch out little sections

467
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: within that. But we would always do album nights at

468
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: the at the Beacon just where it started, and we

469
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: would do a couple of weeks at the Beacon. We

470
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: would do different album nights each night, so we would

471
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 2: do pretty much the whole repertoire at some point because

472
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 2: we would we would play the Royal Scam in its entirety,

473
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 2: we would do Asia and its entirety. We did Countdown

474
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: to Ecstasy, we did Katie Live, We did you know,

475
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: the entire records, and then the greatest hits after that.

476
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 2: So it was it was really cool because you know,

477
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: for us in the band, we got to play stuff

478
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 2: that we don't normally play, some of the deeper cuts

479
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 2: and uh and for the diehard fans that was that

480
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: was incredible. You know. We would do Donald's Nightfly record,

481
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: or sometime during the seely Dan Knights, we would do

482
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 2: some of donald solo stuff. He would work those in

483
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: so it's always changing and then he would rearrange some

484
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: stuff that he was. You know, he gets tired of

485
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 2: playing them the exact same way. You know, some of

486
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 2: the older tracks he'll he'll rearrange every now and then.

487
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: So I think it's just because he gets bored and

488
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:24,479
Speaker 2: ables to change it up.

489
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 1: Well, how about you. You're going on the road for

490
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: twenty years, certainly not every night, and you're playing the

491
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: same songs. Are you still as excited? Do you get

492
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: bored you start thinking about your laundry?

493
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 2: Well, no, I I don't. I don't really get bored.

494
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 2: I mean this it's you know, I obviously I have

495
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 2: nights where I'm more on than others, but I'm such

496
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 2: a fan of the music, and I just I always

497
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 2: have a good time, some nice other than others, you know.

498
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 2: But I'm definitely not thinking about laundry, you know, I could.

499
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 2: I know what I'm getting burnt out after a long tour,

500
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: but I'm I still try to, like, you know, get

501
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: up there and nail it as best I can.

502
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: And what's the difference with Walter No longer? With us,

503
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: it's a.

504
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 2: Huge dynamic that's missing. I mean, it's yeah, it's uh.

505
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 2: I guess all I can say is it's it's doable

506
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 2: because Donald is the singer. It's doable that we can

507
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 2: keep going or you know that Donald wants to keep

508
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 2: keep the band going. It's, uh, it works, but obviously

509
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: it's not the same. Uh. They had such a an incredible,

510
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 2: you know relationship. It was it was always fun just

511
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 2: to see how they would bounce ideas off each other,

512
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,239
Speaker 2: and it was, you know, half the time it was

513
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: it was over our heads, you know, just follow their

514
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 2: their sense of humor and their references and you know,

515
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: just having that background together, growing up together. It was.

516
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: It was cool to see that. And I'm sure it

517
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: must be weird for Donald to just be up there

518
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: without his partner of all those years. You know, I

519
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 2: can't imagine that. But it's it's you know, it's cool,

520
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: and it's the music is what matters, and the fact

521
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 2: that Donald is wanting to keep it going. It's it's

522
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: a beautiful thing for everyone.

523
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: Okay, So you said you went to school in Texas.

524
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: Where'd you grow up?

525
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 2: I grew up in Mississippi. I was born in Greenville, Mississippi,

526
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 2: which is in the Mississippi Delta.

527
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: You know, most people are not that Mississippi savvy, you know,

528
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: northern Mississippi is like Tennessee. Southern Mississippi is a world

529
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: up to itself. Where is that where you grew up?

530
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: And how far is the biggest town went, I'll give

531
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: me a little bit more.

532
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 2: Okay, well, Greenville the delta is kind of like north Mississippi,

533
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 2: like below Memphis. If you know where Memphis, Tennessee is

534
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 2: just like right below that. So it's in that area

535
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 2: kind of like I don't know, not central Mississippi, but

536
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 2: like maybe just below Memphis. That's kind of where I

537
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 2: was born. And then we moved south to the Jackson area,

538
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 2: which is central centrally located in a town called Clinton, Mississippi,

539
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: which is where I grew up from like age five

540
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: through high school. And then well, I mean it was

541
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:50,719
Speaker 2: it was a great place to grow up. I mean,

542
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 2: obviously there's a lot of rich musical culture in that area,

543
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 2: and I was not quite aware of it all until

544
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 2: I got older, but just being around people that knew

545
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 2: it could turn me on to things. You know. I

546
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 2: had some great teachers along the way, But I was

547
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 2: certainly influenced by New Orleans, which was not far you know,

548
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 2: the New Orleans music. I really got heavily into that.

549
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: Of course, Memphis had the Stacks Recordings just up the road,

550
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 2: so to speak, and then you had Muscle Shoals Alabama

551
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 2: not too far like that. Whole region is just really

552
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 2: rich of American music culture. That's pretty insane, you know,

553
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 2: and I learned more about it later. But it's just

554
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 2: cool to be from that. You know, it doesn't seem

555
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 2: it doesn't see. It seems rare. You know. There's not

556
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 2: a lot of people that say, yeah, I'm from Mississippi,

557
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 2: so it's kind of I don't know, it's definitely a

558
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 2: communication starter, you know, people I didn't know people lived

559
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 2: in Mississippi.

560
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: So is your family have a long history in Mississippi.

561
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 1: What did your father their mother do for a living.

562
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 2: My yeah, both my parents were from there, well, I

563
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,439
Speaker 2: guess the majority of their lives. I think my dad

564
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 2: was originally from Schenecade, New York. My mom was from there.

565
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 2: She was a school teacher. She taught in elementary school

566
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 2: and I know she taught kindergarten at one point. My

567
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 2: dad was he worked at Mississippi Valley Gas Company in Jackson,

568
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 2: and he was a corrosion engineer, which basically he had

569
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 2: accounts he would go to annually or semi annually. I

570
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 2: don't know exactly. I don't remember how it worked, but

571
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: he would just basically go and do leak at surveys

572
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 2: and it was a natural natural gas accounts he would

573
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: have at various locations, and I guess if he found

574
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 2: a leak, he would get it fixed and you know

575
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 2: that kind of thing. It probably was more involved in that,

576
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 2: but that's that's really all I could. That's all I

577
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 2: knew at the time about it. But yeah, definitely not

578
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: musicians I was. I was just one of the weird

579
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 2: people that kind of figured out what they want to

580
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 2: do at an early age. It wasn't because of my family.

581
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 2: I had two I had two older sisters. They weren't

582
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: musicians really, but they I think played some piano, but they,

583
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 2: you know, they weren't serious about it. But there was

584
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 2: always music in the house and that's kind of how

585
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 2: it all started, just being around music all the time.

586
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: What kind of music.

587
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 2: I can remember, just various stuff. I remember. Obviously we

588
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: were listening to a lot of you know, top forty

589
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 2: radio growing up in classic rock and stuff like that.

590
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 2: But I remember there were some Paul McCartney and Wings.

591
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 2: I remember the Beg's there some Beatles, there was you know,

592
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 2: like popular music of the day. There was there was

593
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: trying to think various stuff, you know, and I think

594
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 2: listening to just really it was just a sponge, you know.

595
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 2: I was like listening to whatever, whatever I whatever was around,

596
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 2: and I was just drawn to the rhythm and and

597
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 2: you know, drums and music. I just somehow knew that's

598
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 2: what I wanted to do.

599
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 1: Well, a little bit slower, How did you start playing

600
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: the drums and the drums your first instrument?

601
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was my first instrument. I I was I

602
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 2: was just trying to think, you know. I would watch

603
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 2: the Johnny Carson Show and see Buddy Rich on there

604
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 2: or other. Ed Shaughnessy was the drummer in the band.

605
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 2: It was like always, you know, musical guests that I'd

606
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 2: be into and and and then later I got into

607
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 2: Late Night with David Letterman, which kind of started my

608
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 2: whole infatuation with New York City, and I knew I

609
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 2: wanted to go there. You know. At some point I

610
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 2: fell in love with New York. So, you know, I

611
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 2: guess my parents realized that I was into this thing,

612
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 2: and they got me the toy kits that a lot

613
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 2: of parents start out with to see how it goes,

614
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to get too too locked in.

615
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 2: And those those paper heads they last about two days,

616
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: you know, and uh, and then I just kept wanting more.

617
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 2: And eventually I think someone recommended to my parents get

618
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 2: them a snare drum, you know, start there, and and

619
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 2: then I started just getting more and more into it,

620
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 2: and I wanted a drum set. I got my first

621
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 2: drum set. I talked to my dad into it. I

622
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: think I was around nine ten, and that's when it

623
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: really got serious because I was just listening to all

624
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 2: kinds of different music in the house and just trying

625
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 2: to figure out what they were doing and just picking

626
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 2: out the parts, you know, by year. And the great

627
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 2: thing was is that I didn't just play drums by

628
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 2: myself for very long. There was there was some other

629
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 2: musicians in the neighborhood that I met that were older

630
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 2: than me that and they needed a drummer. It was

631
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 2: just perfect timing and we ended up putting this literally

632
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 2: a garage band together and we just played classic rock

633
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 2: and stuff that they were into. And this guy's name

634
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 2: was David Duncan. I remember going into his house. We'd

635
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 2: set up in his garage for a long time for

636
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 2: several years, and just practiced there, like almost every day,

637
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 2: just playing, just just learning music. I think we finally

638
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 2: got some gigs, but it was just more about just

639
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 2: just the the escape of just going in that garage

640
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 2: and playing together and inviting people over as we were jamming.

641
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 2: And and then eventually my parents realized that this wasn't

642
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 2: going to go away. They were they were like, okay,

643
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 2: what are we going to do? So they they they

644
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 2: built a soundproof room in our garage, so that became

645
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,240
Speaker 2: a place where we would rehearse and I would play.

646
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 2: I couldn't wait to get home from school to play,

647
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: and always practicing, always playing, putting in the work, you know,

648
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 2: just and then as soon as I could, I got

649
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 2: into the school programs and found some great teachers and

650
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 2: in the area. I wanted to do it all, you know.

651
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 2: I wanted to be in the marching band. I wanted

652
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 2: to play. I was already the drummer. I was like,

653
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,760
Speaker 2: you know it, I think any musician can probably relate

654
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 2: like is a lot of us are kind of We're sensitive,

655
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,879
Speaker 2: and we're introverted most of the time, and like this

656
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 2: is our kind of our self esteem and our identity

657
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 2: is these whatever we decide to play, you know, it

658
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 2: becomes like that's how I was anyway. I was just like, man,

659
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 2: this is this is everything, and I became that the

660
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 2: drummer guy. You know, so everybody. But it was it

661
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 2: was a great time. It was a good, good place

662
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 2: to grow up. And I was around people that were

663
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 2: older than me that that was teaching me about playing

664
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 2: in a rhythm section and you know, what is the

665
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 2: kick drum and the bass drum need to do? How

666
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 2: does that work together? And you know all those things

667
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 2: that that I learned at an early age, you know,

668
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 2: just playing with people, playing with other humans, then just

669
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 2: sitting in a practice room by myself. It seems like

670
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 2: that's what a lot of young drummers are doing these days.

671
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 2: They just they can play a lot of great stuff

672
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 2: and they're putting out their Instagram videos, but it's you know,

673
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: I don't know if they've really played in a band before.

674
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 2: You know, you can kind of tell that they have

675
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 2: or not, you know, but I was lucky. I was

676
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 2: lucky to have that opportunity right away to play with

677
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 2: people and just kind of start there.

678
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: Okay, a little bit more in playing in bands in

679
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: high school. I mean, was this you know we hear

680
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: from some people. Oh yeah, I played in clubs or

681
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: I played every school dance. What was your situation?

682
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 2: We ended up well as far as school goes. I

683
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 2: got into the marching band, I did symphonic band, I

684
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 2: played other percussion instruments, and I had to, like, I

685
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 2: remember when it first started. I guess it was seventh grade,

686
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 2: you know, the band program. I had to let the

687
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 2: band director know I was already a drummer, you know,

688
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 2: like I'm not going to sit here and audition on,

689
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 2: not going to work on my amishor on a tuba,

690
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 2: you know, and let you pick what I'm going to play.

691
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 2: I'm like, I want to play the drums, you know.

692
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 2: And it worked, it worked out. But but yeah, I

693
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 2: got to any any school band program that they had,

694
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: whether it was we had a show choir, we didn't

695
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 2: have a jazz band. We had a show choir. I

696
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 2: was the drummer, and that it was like a song

697
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 2: and dance group, you know, doing like a variety show

698
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 2: kind of thing, and you know, even trying to think

699
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 2: what else was happening in the high school days. But

700
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 2: but I was playing, you know, in these bands when

701
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 2: I get home from school. I think we finally I

702
00:43:54,800 --> 00:44:00,240
Speaker 2: got a gig or two at clubs and my parents

703
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 2: would have to take me and stay with me to

704
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: get me in and that kind of thing, because I was,

705
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 2: I don't know, probably eleven twelve at this point, playing

706
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 2: in cars and yeah, so you know that my parents

707
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 2: were supportive. So that was cool that that was I

708
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 2: think because it was so foreign to them, this whole

709
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 2: musician thing, because it's just wasn't anything that they were.

710
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:31,399
Speaker 2: They just didn't know anything about it. So I think

711
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 2: they just kind of saw it as exciting because it

712
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 2: was so different from you know, what they had done

713
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 2: up until that point, and I was taking this risk,

714
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 2: and I think they enjoyed that because it could have

715
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 2: gone the other way. You know, it could have been like,

716
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 2: you know, what are you doing? But luckily I had

717
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 2: they were open enough to deal with it. But yeah,

718
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 2: and then when I got into college, I went to

719
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 2: North Texas and and it's in the Dallas area in Denton, Texas.

720
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 2: I was, you know, previously playing a lot of rock

721
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 2: and R and B and soul music, groove music. I

722
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 2: was really into a lot of that I wanted to

723
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 2: learn more. I was getting more into progressive stuff and

724
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,439
Speaker 2: fusion jazz rock, kind of all that kind of thing

725
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 2: that was more sophisticated, and I wanted to get more

726
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 2: into the jazz thing because I didn't know a lot

727
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,240
Speaker 2: about it. I was just starting to kind of dab

728
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 2: into it from teachers turning me on to stuff, and

729
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 2: so U and T University of North Texas is known

730
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 2: as a really good jazz program and jazz school. So

731
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 2: that's really why I just decided to go there because

732
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 2: I wanted to just challenge myself something new and different.

733
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 2: And I had decided that, you know, I want to

734
00:45:55,400 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 2: do this New York thing, and and the jazz influence

735
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 2: was going to probably help that out, you know, just

736
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 2: just to kind of incorporate that into my playing where

737
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 2: I could just kind of draw from that whenever I

738
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 2: need to. And but yeah, I was doing, you know,

739
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 2: taking lessons in that genre of music and then playing

740
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 2: with various musicians in the Dallas area. I was, I

741
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 2: was playing. It got to a point where I was

742
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 2: playing seven nights a week and then also going to school,

743
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 2: trying to go to school, you know, but I was

744
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 2: playing a lot. It was was almost like a training ground,

745
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 2: you know, before I moved to New York. But there

746
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 2: was a lot of great players in Dallas. I think

747
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 2: the school brings in a lot of talent and they

748
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:50,959
Speaker 2: stick around and there's just a lot of great players there.

749
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 2: At the time. This would have been you know, late eighties,

750
00:46:55,320 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 2: early nineties, I guess. And I I was playing in

751
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 2: this band called Dallas Brass and Electric and we played

752
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 2: like a lot of the you know, a lot of

753
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 2: it was a cover band. We did what most of

754
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 2: those bands would do, but we also because of the

755
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 2: horn section, we'd play like Tower Power and Berthman and

756
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 2: Fire Chicago and you know, just great horn music, R

757
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 2: and B stuff, and it was it was really great.

758
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 2: It's really it was a great band and we played

759
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 2: all the time for years. I was in that band,

760
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 2: and it just it did a lot for me growing

761
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 2: as a musician. It was. It was really a great time.

762
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, it was just it was a

763
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 2: great time to be in in Texas and that at

764
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 2: that time at UNC, there was just a lot going on.

765
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know how it is now, but

766
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 2: at that time it was great.

767
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:08,919
Speaker 1: Okay, So that's outside the classroom certainly many musicians never

768
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: go to college, never mind music college. So in retrospect,

769
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: what did you learn and was it to your benefit

770
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 1: in the classroom, I.

771
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 2: Think I gained more from just you know, getting out

772
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 2: and playing. But what was cool was being around peers

773
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 2: that turned me on to stuff, you know, turn me

774
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 2: onto music I didn't know about, or just just you know,

775
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: check this out, you know kind of stuff. Just and

776
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 2: and getting together with other players and playing and just

777
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 2: growing that way, changing ideas. And had some great teachers

778
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 2: for sure. Ed sof was was the drum set teacher there,

779
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 2: and he was it was pretty life changing what we

780
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 2: got into. So that was that was great. That part

781
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:02,320
Speaker 2: of it was great, But I think just being around

782
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 2: it and having that opportunity to grow, you know, before

783
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 2: I made the big move, I think it was just

784
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 2: a it was it was you know, some people aren't

785
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 2: into the music school idea, but it works out well

786
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 2: for me. I think I was I kind of needed that.

787
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 2: I needed more time to figure stuff out, you know,

788
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 2: before I went to the big city to see what

789
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:26,240
Speaker 2: could happen.

790
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 1: You know, so you graduate from college and take me

791
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: from there.

792
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 2: I didn't graduate, I remember, I remember Ed so of

793
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: actually telling my mom, my teacher there, that yeah, Keith,

794
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 2: Keith could just should just go. Just let him go,

795
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 2: let him see what happens. You know. I always thought

796
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 2: that was kind of cool that he went there, because

797
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 2: you would think he'd be like, oh, he's got to

798
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,439
Speaker 2: finish his degree, but he was. He was cool enough

799
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 2: to tell my mom that. And my mom was like,

800
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 2: oh my gosh. She was very, very very and you know,

801
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:07,399
Speaker 2: great great lady, but just just really conservative and it's

802
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 2: like you got to finish that degree kind of thing,

803
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 2: you know. But anyway, so he convinced her that it

804
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 2: was okay.

805
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: How far are you from a degree? How long were

806
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: you there?

807
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 2: You know, I was there for four years. I was

808
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 2: there from I guess eighty nine to ninety two, and

809
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 2: then I was still playing a lot in Dallas Fort

810
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 2: Worth area. So I was working all the time, just

811
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 2: playing gigs, gig after gig, different types of stuff, a

812
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 2: little bit of session work here and there. There's a

813
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 2: lot of jingles going on in that in that area

814
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:48,800
Speaker 2: at that time. And I stayed in Dallas for another

815
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 2: I would say maybe three to four years, just gigging. Yeah,

816
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 2: just gigging and just kind of getting my Like it

817
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 2: was I needed to get away from school to kind

818
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,720
Speaker 2: of process everything and just kind of have time to

819
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 2: to figure out what just happened. You know, so much

820
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 2: information that it was good to just stop the classroom

821
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 2: stuff and just get out and play and focus on that.

822
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 2: And I was practicing all the time, you know, it

823
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 2: was that time of when I put it in all

824
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 2: the hours. You know, just just I knew at some

825
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:28,840
Speaker 2: point I was going to get out and see what

826
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 2: else I could find, you know, because because I pretty

827
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,959
Speaker 2: much you know, you can make a decent living, I guess,

828
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 2: but I had I just I just wanted to see

829
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 2: what else was out there. You know.

830
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 1: So how did you end up going to New York?

831
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 2: How did I end up going?

832
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's the dream. You go to college

833
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: for four years, you spend more years in Dallas. People

834
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 1: always talking about going to the big city, and most

835
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 1: don't even make the effort.

836
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I you know, it was just time and I

837
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 2: and I I had some friends that went to school

838
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 2: with me that had previously moved there, so it felt like,

839
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 2: you know, I'm gonna know a few people already. And

840
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,439
Speaker 2: then I just I just saved some dough It wasn't

841
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 2: a lot, but it was. I had a little bit

842
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 2: of a cushion there. And a guy that I went

843
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 2: to school with, his name was Josh Was. He let

844
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 2: me move in with him. He needed a roommate in

845
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 2: the East Village, and I just I drove up from Dallas,

846
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 2: brought a few things, and a couple of friends helped

847
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 2: me unload, and there I was, you know, like I was.

848
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 2: I knew I was going to live in Manhattan. I

849
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 2: wasn't going to live in the other boroughs or Jersey

850
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:43,800
Speaker 2: or anything. I was going to be in the middle

851
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 2: of it. I wanted to just walk out my door

852
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 2: be in that city, just be there, you know, and

853
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 2: I could walk down the street to hear any almost

854
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 2: any night of the week. I could go here like

855
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 2: some of my heroes play at a club, you know,

856
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 2: So that that was incredible. But I knew I wanted

857
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 2: to be in the city, and I was just gonna

858
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 2: go and see what could happen. Luckily, my roommate at

859
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,959
Speaker 2: the time that all worked out. I was on Fifth

860
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 2: Street between Second and Third Avenue, and uh I I

861
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 2: ended up. I guess it was maybe six months into

862
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 2: it or so being there that I got into a

863
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 2: few things where I was playing. I was playing at

864
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 2: the Bitter End on like every Sunday night they had

865
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 2: a jam and I was asked to be like the

866
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 2: the house drummer for the jam and that was, Oh,

867
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 2: that was really fun because a lot of people came

868
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 2: in and you know, it was some there was some

869
00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 2: really good players. There were something that weren't, but it

870
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 2: was it was a great place to hang and just

871
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 2: meet meet people. It was just just rotating, uh, you know,

872
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 2: people just coming in and out and just playing all night.

873
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 2: So it was really cool and a lot of stuff

874
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 2: came out of that, you know, just meeting those people.

875
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 2: And because you know, this is pre social media and

876
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 2: I think it was pre cell phone. I remember having

877
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 2: a pager in those days. You know, the pager would

878
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 2: go off and you hope, you oh, I got a gig.

879
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,280
Speaker 2: You have to hurry up and call go to a payphone,

880
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 2: you know. But yeah, I got into some situations really

881
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 2: that was really great. I ended up getting an audition

882
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 2: with Harry Belafonte and I got the gig and I

883
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 2: worked with him for a couple of years on and off,

884
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 2: going on the road. Just some Vega shows did some

885
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 2: theater around the US, and that was great, great band,

886
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 2: great musicians. We did a lot of eclectic music and

887
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 2: different stuff, African music of course, all the hits and stuff.

888
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 2: It was really fun. There was also I had a

889
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 2: contact from North Texas with Lou Marini Blue Lou from

890
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 2: you know, the Blues Brothers band, and you know, of

891
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,400
Speaker 2: course he's done a million other things, but he's certainly

892
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 2: known for the Blues Brothers and we got to know

893
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 2: each other in Dallas. Whenever he would come back, he

894
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 2: has family there, he would come back and we ended

895
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 2: up he ended up sitting in with this band that

896
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:51,840
Speaker 2: I was playing, the horn band I was telling you about,

897
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 2: and so we kind of kept in touch a little bit.

898
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,279
Speaker 2: I remember the days of back in those days, we

899
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 2: would you know, hand out business cards or it's kind

900
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,720
Speaker 2: of it sounds silly now, but in a demo tape,

901
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 2: you know, a cassette tape every now and then I

902
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 2: would hand them out and just hope for the best,

903
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 2: you know, if someone cares enough to listen, and you

904
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 2: know whatever. But he was one of the guys that

905
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 2: actually responded, you know, and he dug what I when

906
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 2: I gave him, and what he heard and I thought

907
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 2: that was really cool. And when I got to New York,

908
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 2: he kind of took me under his wing. He like

909
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 2: introduced me to a lot of people and he and

910
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 2: he got me in with the Blues Brothers. I started

911
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 2: touring with those guys. It was like the original Blues

912
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 2: Brothers band and I was. It was Steve Cropper, Duck

913
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 2: Dunn was there some of the time when he wasn't

914
00:56:55,680 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 2: There was another bass player named Eric Udell. There was

915
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 2: you know, of course Lou on saxophone, Alan Rubin, mister

916
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:12,840
Speaker 2: fabulous Birch Johnson was on trombone, Leon Pandarvis on keys.

917
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 2: Rusty Cloud would play keys sometimes when Leon wasn't there,

918
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 2: Matt guitar, Murphy like all the guys. Of course, Akroyd

919
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 2: and Belushi weren't there. There was different singers. They had

920
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,439
Speaker 2: a guy from New York named Tommy McDonald and Eddie

921
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 2: Floyd knock on wood. Eddie Floyd would sing with the

922
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 2: band and we would go to Japan. We would go

923
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 2: all over Europe the blues festivals and various various things.

924
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 2: People went nuts over that band, as they should. I mean,

925
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 2: it's a party, you know. It was just like get

926
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 2: out there and played feel good music and people love

927
00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 2: those songs. I mean, the whole Blues Brothers movie is

928
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 2: such a phenomenon. I mean there's there's kids that still

929
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 2: would show up dressed in the in the suits and

930
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 2: the hat and the glasses. You know. It was so cool. Uh,

931
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 2: it was amazing. And that was my first experience, you know,

932
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 2: traveling the world and playing music, you know, and it

933
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 2: was it was awesome, you know, just to play with

934
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 2: those guys and you know, they they basically came up

935
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 2: with with a lot of what I grew up loving

936
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 2: and just you know, the whole Stacks thing and just

937
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 2: all those songs. Just so much history there, you know,

938
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 2: just to kind of get a piece of that was fun.

939
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 2: Just to be work with those guys. It was I

940
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 2: learned a lot, you know, it was it was great.

941
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 2: So I had the I had that going on. I

942
00:58:56,000 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 2: had the the the Harry Belafonte thing going on, and

943
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 2: then I had this kind of more jazz oriented stuff,

944
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 2: underground stuff with Wayne Krantz that I was mentioning earlier,

945
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 2: which is how I met Donald Walter. So I was

946
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 2: able to get into some things in New York that

947
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 2: that it just kind of just snowballed and led to

948
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 2: other stuff, you know, and you know, that was it

949
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,479
Speaker 2: was a very I just loved New York so much.

950
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 2: I just had like this infatuation with it that I

951
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 2: remember the first time I went there, I was I

952
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 2: was selected to be in the McDonald's All American High

953
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 2: School Band and I got to march in the Macy's

954
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 2: parade on the snare drum and we had like the

955
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 2: TV moment in front of Macy's and did our thing,

956
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 2: and and I was just I mean, I was a

957
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 2: junior in high school and this being in the big city,

958
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 2: marching down street, I was in heaven. I was like, man,

959
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 2: this is where I'm going to live. This is it,

960
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to do it. And I just knew.

961
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 2: I just knew from that point on, this is where

962
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 2: I was going to go, you know. And so I'm

963
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:17,479
Speaker 2: just glad I did it. I'm glad I didn't chicken out,

964
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 2: because it was definitely the most intimidating place to go,

965
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 2: you know, at least to me.

966
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 1: It was Okay, you're a drummer, you find your way.

967
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 1: This is when sessions are still happening, and there are

968
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:34,439
Speaker 1: other working musicians who are not going on the road

969
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 1: on a regular basis, So paint picture of what was

970
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 1: going on then and what your placing it was.

971
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 2: Well, I have to say, you know, I moved to

972
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 2: New York around I guess it was ninety six, and

973
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 2: I kind of missed the heyday of the session thing

974
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 2: when when things were killing. I mean, they were just

975
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 2: you know, these and eighties. From what I hear, it was,

976
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 2: it was just like you would go to three or

977
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 2: four sessions a day and just you know, just studio

978
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 2: to studio and cunning records left and right, and I

979
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 2: just I missed all that. And so you know, I've

980
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 2: I've been able to do sessions more now than I

981
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 2: did then, almost like it's kind of turned around. But

982
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 2: in those days when I first moved to New York,

983
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 2: I was more or less I was kind of I

984
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 2: was doing more live work, and I was on the

985
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 2: road all the time. And the only time I mean

986
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 2: just wasn't I wasn't really in the city. As much

987
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 2: as I could, I couldn't figure out a way to

988
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:48,080
Speaker 2: make it work just being in the city. I had

989
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 2: to go on the road. So yeah, I just think

990
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:57,040
Speaker 2: missing that the era where it was really really happening

991
01:01:57,840 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 2: was a part of it. But I also just got

992
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 2: I just found my niche where I was just kind

993
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 2: of this live drummer that it just seemed like that's

994
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 2: kind of where it went, you know, without I didn't

995
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 2: plan anything out. It just kind of went to that

996
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 2: place where I was just going from tour to tour

997
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 2: and the occasional session would come up. And I've done

998
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 2: some records that I'm really proud of, you know, over

999
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 2: the years. But it's I feel like I'm recording more

1000
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 2: now than I did then.

1001
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're on the road. A do you like

1002
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 1: being on the road and b are you happy? Or

1003
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 1: you say I have a bigger dream than this.

1004
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 2: I love the road. I love it. I love you know.

1005
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 2: I'm older now, so I can't say I love, you know,

1006
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 2: being tired all the time and things like that. When

1007
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 2: I was you younger, it didn't matter. I could just

1008
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 2: bounce back. And but I love touring and I love

1009
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 2: playing live. I mean, that's what I really that's that's

1010
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 2: what you're getting paid for, is the show, which is

1011
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 2: just two hours out of the day, you know, and

1012
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 2: then everything else is I guess I should say it

1013
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 2: the other way you're getting paid for all the travel

1014
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 2: and and you know, dealing with all that stuff. But

1015
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 2: I but I love traveling and I love you know,

1016
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 2: I got to see the world and do things that

1017
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 2: I never thought was possible to experience. That was it's

1018
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 2: just been incredible. But I you know, I I yeah,

1019
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I I've just been really I like doing both.

1020
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 2: I like having the session side of things because it's

1021
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:06,560
Speaker 2: it's a lot more structured and you can experiment with

1022
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 2: sounds and and you know, if possible, if there's time,

1023
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 2: you can really really experiment with approaches and things like that,

1024
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 2: whereas live it's just about the energy and the moment

1025
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 2: with the audience, and there's there's nothing like that. I mean,

1026
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 2: that's what I love more than anything.

1027
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 1: So if you can go on the road with varying

1028
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 1: acts till you can play no more physically, you're happy.

1029
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess. So, Yeah, I'm just kind of taking

1030
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 2: it day by day here.

1031
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're working with the Jazz Trio, et cetera.

1032
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 1: You get the gig in Steely Dan. That's one vertical

1033
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 1: to what do weed getting this gig in Steely Dan?

1034
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 1: Does that change your profile and create opportunities.

1035
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 2: Well day STEELYE. Dan definitely put me on the map,

1036
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 2: you know, in a much bigger way. That it's because

1037
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 2: you know, it was just the most high profile thing

1038
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 2: that I had ever been a part of, and a

1039
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 2: lot of people took notice like who is this new guy?

1040
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:19,080
Speaker 2: You know, kind of came out of nowhere and it

1041
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:25,280
Speaker 2: opened up doors and it still does. You know. It's

1042
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 2: it's such a It created a lot of opportunity for me,

1043
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 2: and there's just a credibility there that it puts you

1044
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 2: on a higher rank if you've worked with them, and

1045
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 2: that's that's been amazing, I mean just to have have

1046
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 2: the chance to work with those guys. But because it's

1047
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 2: it's so well revered and such a it's kind of

1048
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 2: like it's the ultimate, you know, one of them. I

1049
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:05,200
Speaker 2: think of those guys, man, I think I think of

1050
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 2: Becker and Fagan is like that's to me, it's like

1051
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:13,360
Speaker 2: Lennon and McCartney, I mean, the they it's the American

1052
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 2: version of that. I mean, they really just prolific songwriters

1053
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:23,919
Speaker 2: and changed changed music, you know, changed the whole course

1054
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 2: of things, you know, and their whole unique story with

1055
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 2: all the session musicians, all the I mean, so many

1056
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 2: great players have played on their records, and just to

1057
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 2: be a part of that lineage of players, just to

1058
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 2: be thought of in that clubs you know, super cool,

1059
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 2: you know.

1060
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 1: Okay, So you say you played with Sting, you played

1061
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 1: with James Taylor, you played with Toto. How does that happen?

1062
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:58,200
Speaker 1: You're sitting at home and they say we want you

1063
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:00,919
Speaker 1: or do you come in and they feel you out,

1064
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:04,200
Speaker 1: whether it's you're good, are you competing with people? Tell

1065
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 1: me a little bit more.

1066
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 2: A lot of it is word of mouth. I think

1067
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:12,440
Speaker 2: a lot of it's the fact that I worked with

1068
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 2: Steely Dan. I think sometimes people would be in the

1069
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:20,840
Speaker 2: audience and liked what they heard and maybe spread the

1070
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 2: word to someone. I mean, it's various things that just

1071
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 2: organically happened and the stars aligned and somehow it happened.

1072
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 2: You know. I've never had a manager. I don't have

1073
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 2: I do everything myself. I don't I don't have any help.

1074
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 2: I just and if someone's interested, they either would call

1075
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 2: me or I'd get a random email. I've always had

1076
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 2: a presence online once that existed, and that's been a

1077
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 2: great tool to be there and to be uh, you know,

1078
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:57,360
Speaker 2: I'm I'm reachable that way. And yeah, I think it's

1079
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 2: just all those variousuations and uh, it's just kind of snowballs.

1080
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 1: So tell me about getting the gig with Sting and

1081
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:11,720
Speaker 1: you play with these acts and then you stop playing

1082
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:13,760
Speaker 1: with them. What causes the end.

1083
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:22,320
Speaker 2: They don't call you back? I don't know, that's that's

1084
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:25,559
Speaker 2: the you know. I think either they move on with

1085
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:29,559
Speaker 2: something else or I don't really have I don't always

1086
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:39,240
Speaker 2: have those answers, because yeah, I think it's uh, you

1087
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 2: know you you I guess I've wondered that. I wondered, like, uh,

1088
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:52,200
Speaker 2: what what goes on in someone's head to to make changes?

1089
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:55,040
Speaker 2: And that that's me that's just kind of their right

1090
01:08:55,080 --> 01:09:02,760
Speaker 2: to do, right, you know. But sometimes times it's just

1091
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 2: scheduling conflicts or whatever, or sometimes you just don't you know,

1092
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:08,559
Speaker 2: once it's over, it's over.

1093
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,400
Speaker 1: So how often is that they call you, and whether

1094
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:14,559
Speaker 1: it be people you've worked with four other people say

1095
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:15,839
Speaker 1: I just can't do it. I'm booked.

1096
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 2: It happened a lot at one point. It's it's been

1097
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:26,880
Speaker 2: I mean, this whole COVID thing, you know, shut down

1098
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 2: things for a while. So I'm just it almost feels

1099
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:36,600
Speaker 2: like it's still coming back, you know, but uh, it's

1100
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:43,280
Speaker 2: I guess that's the hard part about being an independent musician,

1101
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 2: you know sidemen where I'm trying to schedule things and

1102
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 2: and then I know, well, this is you know, I

1103
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 2: got to keep this open, and then it's like trying

1104
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 2: to it's it becomes a mess. You know. This is

1105
01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 2: when I wish I had a manager sometimes you know,

1106
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:05,639
Speaker 2: to deal with it. But but there's also slow periods

1107
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 2: where you just uh waited out for the next thing

1108
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 2: to happen. So yeah, it's it's just part of of

1109
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 2: it's like an exciting part of the gig. And then

1110
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 2: it's also it sucks because you don't know what's going

1111
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:24,920
Speaker 2: to happen next, But it's also exciting not knowing. Maybe

1112
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:26,439
Speaker 2: at least you have to tell yourself that.

1113
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:32,360
Speaker 1: You know, so, how long might it be slow? And

1114
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:36,680
Speaker 1: how did you cope with COVID both emotionally and monetarily.

1115
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:50,880
Speaker 2: Well, it's uh, slow periods are usually expected. Certain parts

1116
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:54,719
Speaker 2: of the year are usually slow, you know, like around

1117
01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 2: holiday time, at the end of the year through maybe

1118
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 2: you know the next summer. Sometimes you know, it just

1119
01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 2: it just became kind of expected, but you never never

1120
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:11,559
Speaker 2: in my wildest dreams that we did. Anyone expect things

1121
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:14,280
Speaker 2: to shut down, the entire live music industry to just

1122
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 2: completely shut down for whatever it was. It feels like

1123
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:22,400
Speaker 2: three years, you know, two years pretty much. I mean

1124
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:24,120
Speaker 2: we were the first thing to go and the last

1125
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 2: to come back. And you know, it was rough, you know,

1126
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:35,400
Speaker 2: it was like very It was depressing because that was

1127
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:40,120
Speaker 2: what I did. I'm I'm I have to get out

1128
01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 2: and play, you know, I have to. I want to

1129
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:47,639
Speaker 2: move around and keep busy and and play shows. That's

1130
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:52,120
Speaker 2: what I do. But I was forced to find other

1131
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 2: things to do. I was able to finally get a

1132
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 2: home studio really up and running. I'd been wanting to

1133
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 2: do that for years and just kept putting it off

1134
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:06,040
Speaker 2: because I was always in the road or always had

1135
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 2: an excuse. But that's one thing that positive that came

1136
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:11,760
Speaker 2: out of it. I was able to get that up

1137
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:14,760
Speaker 2: and running. I had some engineers to help me, and

1138
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 2: I learned more about pro tools where I'm self sufficient.

1139
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:22,719
Speaker 2: I can record drums from home and get really good sounds,

1140
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:26,679
Speaker 2: and so that that's like something that was I guess

1141
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:31,680
Speaker 2: a blessing that came out of it. And I have

1142
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:34,400
Speaker 2: three young daughters, so that it was great to be

1143
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 2: home with them and just to be a part of

1144
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 2: their lives a lot more than I would have been.

1145
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 2: And so that was great. I love that. And you know, financially,

1146
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:51,640
Speaker 2: it was it was it was a challenge. It's a

1147
01:12:51,680 --> 01:12:54,679
Speaker 2: long time, but it was really it felt like almost

1148
01:12:54,680 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 2: three years of not the usual state income. Luckily, I've

1149
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:05,680
Speaker 2: always been a saber and I've invested and things like that.

1150
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:10,760
Speaker 2: I'm not you know, that's another thing I really got

1151
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:16,800
Speaker 2: into it. It's learning more about how how the financial

1152
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:20,599
Speaker 2: world works and learning about all that stuff you know

1153
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:23,760
Speaker 2: that doesn't really get taught. You kind of own your

1154
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:27,240
Speaker 2: own with with all that. But that's been kind of

1155
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:32,000
Speaker 2: fun to learn about. And but yeah, it was rough

1156
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:35,519
Speaker 2: and I and I applied for some of those PPP

1157
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 2: loans and I got through it, and I had to

1158
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 2: dip into some IRA money and that was a drag,

1159
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:45,720
Speaker 2: but I got us through it, you know, And had

1160
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:49,800
Speaker 2: I not had that, we'd be screwed. Probably would have

1161
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:51,040
Speaker 2: had to sell my house or something.

1162
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:56,160
Speaker 1: Okay, And now you're talking about your endorsement deal yet

1163
01:13:56,200 --> 01:14:00,599
Speaker 1: with Vic Firth. To what degree do you have endorsement deals?

1164
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:02,639
Speaker 1: How do those work and when did those arrive?

1165
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:11,759
Speaker 2: Well, the endorsement stuff I have or with Gretch drums

1166
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:16,360
Speaker 2: who I've been with since I guess twenty twelve or

1167
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:24,879
Speaker 2: so Zilgin since the early days nineties, and Vic Firth sticks.

1168
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:28,240
Speaker 2: I have a signature model, so I get a little

1169
01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:30,639
Speaker 2: bit of a royalty with the sales of that one.

1170
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:33,880
Speaker 2: I also have a signature snare drum with Gretch that

1171
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 2: I get a royalty from, which is cool. But what

1172
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:46,439
Speaker 2: else am I missing? Oh Evan's drumheads. And then I

1173
01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:49,840
Speaker 2: also have a deal with Earthworks Mics. That's what I

1174
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 2: use on the road and also at home in the studio.

1175
01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:57,000
Speaker 2: You can see the drums behind me. This is where

1176
01:14:57,040 --> 01:15:06,040
Speaker 2: I track. Actually, so it happened. You know, basically, once

1177
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:12,679
Speaker 2: you get a high profile gig or you're someone these days,

1178
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:14,479
Speaker 2: it's different, but at least you know, I'm old school,

1179
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:17,280
Speaker 2: so back back when you you just kind of had

1180
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 2: to get a gig and have visibility, they would be

1181
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 2: interested in signing you on. And I got to know

1182
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:29,519
Speaker 2: some of the guys. Being in New York, I was

1183
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:32,519
Speaker 2: able to have access to to that world a little

1184
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:34,960
Speaker 2: better when they would come to town for various things and

1185
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 2: got to know some of the guys that the drum

1186
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:43,439
Speaker 2: companies and and so you know, it's good to have

1187
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:47,120
Speaker 2: a relationship with those guys. And it's not just about

1188
01:15:47,640 --> 01:15:51,040
Speaker 2: getting free stuff, you know, it's it's really having a

1189
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:55,479
Speaker 2: relationship and and you know you're in it together. You know,

1190
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:58,880
Speaker 2: you're out there pushing their brand, and then they're also

1191
01:15:59,360 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 2: helping you with the gear. So it's and it really

1192
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:08,920
Speaker 2: comes in handy when you're on the road and you're

1193
01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:12,080
Speaker 2: not on a tour like I've been on various tours,

1194
01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:15,840
Speaker 2: but different budget levels. You know, sometimes there's not a

1195
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:18,559
Speaker 2: budget to bring all your stuff, so you're you're going

1196
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:20,760
Speaker 2: to get backline at every gig. So it's good to

1197
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:24,840
Speaker 2: have endorsements, especially in those situations, because they can help

1198
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:27,599
Speaker 2: you get what you need to each venue and make

1199
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 2: sure it's what you want and that kind of thing,

1200
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:33,800
Speaker 2: which can be great, but it's just an agreement, you Like,

1201
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:38,240
Speaker 2: I got to know the guys and they would ask

1202
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 2: me if I was interested, or I would tell them

1203
01:16:43,439 --> 01:16:46,240
Speaker 2: I was interested, and you know, just work it out,

1204
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:48,240
Speaker 2: work out a situation.

1205
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:53,280
Speaker 1: Okay. Another thing you're into is education. Tell me about that.

1206
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:57,400
Speaker 2: I've done a little bit of private teaching here and there,

1207
01:16:57,479 --> 01:17:01,040
Speaker 2: but I don't do a lot of it. I I

1208
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:03,679
Speaker 2: don't love I don't love it. I don't love teaching.

1209
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:08,040
Speaker 2: But what I did find that I did enjoy was

1210
01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 2: just doing like the occasional like they call it clinics

1211
01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:15,559
Speaker 2: or masterclass or something like that, where it's a group

1212
01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:19,720
Speaker 2: of people, have an audience and it's just a one

1213
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:25,000
Speaker 2: time show where I just basically I'll do some playing

1214
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:28,160
Speaker 2: and I'll talk about some things and then open it

1215
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 2: up for questions, and so it just kind of goes

1216
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:33,920
Speaker 2: wherever the audience takes it, you know. So it's really

1217
01:17:34,320 --> 01:17:37,080
Speaker 2: a good way to kind of reach the level of

1218
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:39,240
Speaker 2: the people in the room where they're at, and they

1219
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:42,439
Speaker 2: can kind of just interactive, you know, you can kind

1220
01:17:42,479 --> 01:17:45,960
Speaker 2: of feel it out and see what they might get

1221
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 2: at it, what they interest are, and hope that they

1222
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:52,280
Speaker 2: can get something out of what I have there to

1223
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 2: give and say. But I used to do a lot

1224
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:02,599
Speaker 2: of those. A lot of these companies that I'm involved

1225
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 2: with would sponsor tours, you know, I would do like

1226
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:10,840
Speaker 2: a two week clinic tour, or if I was had

1227
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:15,400
Speaker 2: a day off somewhere, we could maybe schedule something at

1228
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:19,400
Speaker 2: a music store or university or school or whatever. It

1229
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:24,840
Speaker 2: might be drum shop or something. So I've done a

1230
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:28,160
Speaker 2: lot of those over the years, and I really enjoy it.

1231
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:29,920
Speaker 2: It just doesn't seem to be a budget for it

1232
01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:33,080
Speaker 2: like there used to be. I think the companies have

1233
01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:36,240
Speaker 2: cut back on that funding that stuff. It's not that

1234
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:43,000
Speaker 2: not the same. But I have enjoyed doing that, and

1235
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:45,960
Speaker 2: I've done some drum camps where you spend like a

1236
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:51,040
Speaker 2: week with the students at various locations. I did one

1237
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:54,559
Speaker 2: in Greece a while back. I've done some in the UK,

1238
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:58,560
Speaker 2: and there's there's a lot of communities, different places that

1239
01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:02,160
Speaker 2: do these things every year, and so they'll call different

1240
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:05,559
Speaker 2: people every year to be a part of that. But

1241
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:09,600
Speaker 2: that's that's probably as far as it goes I've done.

1242
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:14,519
Speaker 2: I did a DVD, an instruction of DVD that came

1243
01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:19,200
Speaker 2: out like two thousand and eight, I think. But that's

1244
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:20,519
Speaker 2: that's the gist of it.

1245
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:24,600
Speaker 1: Okay. So let's say they call you to work and

1246
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:29,280
Speaker 1: you're booked. Who do you tell them to call and

1247
01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:33,000
Speaker 1: who are your drum favorites heroes living and dead?

1248
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 2: You know, if I I'll just say I'm not available,

1249
01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:42,080
Speaker 2: I guess, and if they if they or if I

1250
01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:43,920
Speaker 2: if I think of someone that I think would be

1251
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:48,920
Speaker 2: good for it, I'll certainly recommend someone. Of course, it

1252
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:54,160
Speaker 2: just depends on what it is and who I think

1253
01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:59,880
Speaker 2: might be good for it. But as far as influences

1254
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:07,559
Speaker 2: and I I I always mess with this question because

1255
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:11,960
Speaker 2: there's so many I'll forget, but you know, going back

1256
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:19,200
Speaker 2: to like Keith Moon and John Bonham, uh, Mitch Mitchell,

1257
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:29,880
Speaker 2: Charlie Watts, like Steve Jordan, the New Orleans side of things.

1258
01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:32,320
Speaker 2: I love the Meters. That was a big influence to

1259
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:41,280
Speaker 2: Goboo model LISTE was the drummer Great Dunner, Uh, David Garibaldi,

1260
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:51,160
Speaker 2: Tower Power, Uh. In the jazz world, like, oh, there's

1261
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:54,280
Speaker 2: so many I went through. Uh well in the jazz

1262
01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:57,960
Speaker 2: world like Tony Williams and Alvin Jones and Jack d Jeanette,

1263
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:06,080
Speaker 2: Bill Stewarts and and I like a lot. Uh She's

1264
01:21:07,160 --> 01:21:10,360
Speaker 2: Neil Peart was one that I grew up being a

1265
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:16,639
Speaker 2: huge rush band. So that was a big influence. Stuart

1266
01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:21,839
Speaker 2: Copeland with the Police, all the all the session guys

1267
01:21:21,880 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 2: like Steve Gadd, Bernard Purdy, Rick Morata, Ed Green like

1268
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:31,360
Speaker 2: all these these are some of the ones that are

1269
01:21:31,400 --> 01:21:36,599
Speaker 2: on all these Steely Dan records, you know, because being

1270
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:40,400
Speaker 2: being a part of that is, like I've always said,

1271
01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:43,519
Speaker 2: it's like the greatest drum school, Like because there's so

1272
01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:46,559
Speaker 2: many great players on all those tracks from all those

1273
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:51,400
Speaker 2: records that getting to play them you're you're kind of

1274
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:56,160
Speaker 2: channeling them in a way night after night, but but

1275
01:21:56,280 --> 01:21:59,160
Speaker 2: also making it your own. At the same time, you're

1276
01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:01,639
Speaker 2: kind of like paying homage to that what they were

1277
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:03,559
Speaker 2: doing that day in the studio because it's so much

1278
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:06,559
Speaker 2: a part of the track, all those details that are

1279
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:11,000
Speaker 2: involved and the feel of it and how it all

1280
01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:14,080
Speaker 2: works together in the rhythm section, everybody's part. You know,

1281
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:16,639
Speaker 2: there's a focus there. But then it kind of turns

1282
01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:18,559
Speaker 2: over the years, it's turned into me kind of doing

1283
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:23,040
Speaker 2: my version of it. It just morphs into that over time.

1284
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:26,439
Speaker 2: But in the beginning, I was studying another records. Man,

1285
01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:29,599
Speaker 2: just you know, all those Steely Dan records, and there's

1286
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:36,960
Speaker 2: so many great great tracks. There's Dave Weckel, There's there's

1287
01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:40,719
Speaker 2: Dennis Chambers and Vinnie Kelly Uda, all these guys. Those

1288
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 2: were like when I was in high school, those were

1289
01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:47,800
Speaker 2: like everyone was listening to those those three guys. There's

1290
01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:50,240
Speaker 2: so many man, I could, I'm gonna.

1291
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:54,280
Speaker 1: Okay, well believe it at that, So we don't. Less

1292
01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:57,000
Speaker 1: we talk about it, the more everybody's left out will

1293
01:22:57,000 --> 01:23:00,400
Speaker 1: feel more comfortable. So we're not working with Steel Dan.

1294
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:03,080
Speaker 1: If you go on your website, you're doing other gigs.

1295
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:06,160
Speaker 1: What are you doing when you're not working with Steely Dan.

1296
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:10,160
Speaker 1: We're going to go out with the Eagles momentarily and

1297
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:12,120
Speaker 1: anything else booked down the pike.

1298
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:15,880
Speaker 2: I do a lot of sessions from home. That's what

1299
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:18,519
Speaker 2: I've been doing a lot of and that's been great

1300
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:21,160
Speaker 2: and really nice because it's kind of on my own,

1301
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:26,280
Speaker 2: something on time, really and it's kind of nice to

1302
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:29,800
Speaker 2: have a little business from home and get to play

1303
01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:33,960
Speaker 2: a lot of different types of music. And I just

1304
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:39,880
Speaker 2: get contacted online from various people from really all over

1305
01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:43,519
Speaker 2: the world. It's it really is amazing. It freaks me

1306
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:46,240
Speaker 2: out that this is possible, that you can just send

1307
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:48,640
Speaker 2: your tracks, you know, I know it's I'm kind of

1308
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:51,120
Speaker 2: late to the game, but but it's it's really cool.

1309
01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:57,000
Speaker 2: I do a lot of that. I when I'm home,

1310
01:23:57,280 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 2: I do if I'm not on the road, I'm basically

1311
01:24:00,120 --> 01:24:05,840
Speaker 2: we doing the dad thing. I have three three young daughters,

1312
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:10,759
Speaker 2: and my wife Lynn, who you know, we just we're

1313
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:13,320
Speaker 2: just kind of They keep us so busy, man, It's

1314
01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:15,240
Speaker 2: just so much going on in their lives, and I

1315
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:16,800
Speaker 2: try to be a part of it as much as

1316
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:22,439
Speaker 2: I can to be there. If I'm home, I'm there,

1317
01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:24,360
Speaker 2: you know. So that's a lot.

1318
01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:27,760
Speaker 1: But you're also on the road, not with Steely Dan.

1319
01:24:29,040 --> 01:24:32,639
Speaker 2: Yeah right. I did a tour with Christopher Cross this summer,

1320
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:37,160
Speaker 2: which was great, a lot of fun. I did you

1321
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:40,040
Speaker 2: know the jazz thing comes up every now and then

1322
01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:42,040
Speaker 2: I was in Japan at the Blue Note with with

1323
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:46,960
Speaker 2: Robin Ford and Bill Evans, Darryl Jones from the Stones,

1324
01:24:47,280 --> 01:24:52,120
Speaker 2: I'm bass and that was so much fun. We were

1325
01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:54,600
Speaker 2: there earlier this year. I even did a tour with

1326
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:58,200
Speaker 2: Wayne the Krantz Trio with Tim Lavay. We were out

1327
01:24:58,280 --> 01:25:01,200
Speaker 2: earlier this year in Europe. So, I mean, there's always

1328
01:25:01,200 --> 01:25:07,519
Speaker 2: stuff going on and it's fun. I like, I like

1329
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:10,519
Speaker 2: changing it up. I like I like doing different things,

1330
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:14,320
Speaker 2: so it just keeps things fresh and fun.

1331
01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:19,320
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's just assume there's no work. Will you

1332
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:22,080
Speaker 1: wait for work to play or do you play every day?

1333
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:25,559
Speaker 2: Back in the day, I would play a lot, but

1334
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:29,240
Speaker 2: now it's it's kind of I play if I if

1335
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:33,559
Speaker 2: I have the work, because otherwise I'm I'm busy with

1336
01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:34,880
Speaker 2: the kiddos and stuff. You know.

1337
01:25:36,280 --> 01:25:38,840
Speaker 1: So let's say there was no work for two weeks,

1338
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:40,840
Speaker 1: do you ever get a Handkory Man, I got to play?

1339
01:25:41,479 --> 01:25:43,200
Speaker 1: Or waiting for the call or the email.

1340
01:25:44,200 --> 01:25:48,439
Speaker 2: Uh, I'll play at that point, I'll probably play a

1341
01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:53,599
Speaker 2: little bit. You know, I can't be without it too long.

1342
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:57,240
Speaker 2: But but back in the old days, when I was younger, man,

1343
01:25:57,240 --> 01:26:00,720
Speaker 2: it was like I would flip out if I wasn't

1344
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:03,599
Speaker 2: playing every single day. I mean, you know, it's funny

1345
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:08,000
Speaker 2: how things change, But yeah, I was. It was extreme,

1346
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:09,960
Speaker 2: really ridiculous.

1347
01:26:11,120 --> 01:26:13,760
Speaker 1: Okay, Keith, I want to thank you for taking this

1348
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:16,920
Speaker 1: time to talk to me and my audience. How long

1349
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:18,960
Speaker 1: are you going on on the road with Steely Dan?

1350
01:26:19,040 --> 01:26:20,599
Speaker 1: How far out is that booked?

1351
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:29,559
Speaker 2: Right now? It's just September through November, and we start

1352
01:26:29,600 --> 01:26:31,760
Speaker 2: rehearsals next week in New York and then we'll be

1353
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:35,360
Speaker 2: out Steely Dan and the Eagles, which should be a

1354
01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:40,639
Speaker 2: lot of fun and killer night of music and yeah,

1355
01:26:40,720 --> 01:26:44,040
Speaker 2: and then we'll see what happens after that. Hopefully there's more.

1356
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:47,280
Speaker 1: That's for sure. If you go to see Keith, you'll

1357
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:49,960
Speaker 1: know it's him behind the act. He's that dynamic and

1358
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:52,759
Speaker 1: that impressive in an event. Thanks again, Keith.

1359
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:55,840
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. I really appreciate the interest. Man.

1360
01:26:55,920 --> 01:27:00,080
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan and follow your newsletter and have

1361
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:03,240
Speaker 2: for years, and as does my wife, so it's really

1362
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:05,840
Speaker 2: an honor to be with you today. Man, Thank you well.

1363
01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:08,200
Speaker 1: It's great. I'm a huge fan of your music too.

1364
01:27:09,040 --> 01:27:11,680
Speaker 1: Until next time. This is Bob Leftstats