WEBVTT - The Last Meal Ritual 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:03.880 Hey, everyone, Josh and Chuck here to remind you that 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:06.480 our last three shows of the year. Boy, this is 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:09.239 a good show this year are taking place very soon 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:10.560 and tickets are still available. 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:12.840 Yeah, so get in the saddle and come out and 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:16.640 see us partners in Orlando, Atlanta, and Nashville. 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.160 Just go to stuff youshould know dot com and click 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:20.960 on the tour link and you can get all your 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:26.040 tickets right there. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:27.680 production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:36.320 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:38.640 Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff you 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.760 should Know, part of the very Grim edition. 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:48.599 That's right. All star writer Livia helped us with this, 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:52.479 so you know it's going to be great. I'm just 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:54.680 trying to butter Livia up so she knows how much 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:55.600 we appreciate her. 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.480 Sure. This topic though, is like she did a good 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.240 job with it. But it's one of those things where 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:07.320 people are all morbidly fascinated with it, right. It's just 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:08.959 kind of one of those things where you might talk 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.039 about at a party or something like that, what would 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:12.360 be your last meal kind of thing. 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:14.880 Yeah, but when you dig into. 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:17.920 It, you're like, man, this is a dark topic. Yeah, 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:19.800 because at the end of the day, what you're talking 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:25.560 about is ultimately a ritual that surrounds the execution of 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:29.080 a human life. Yeah, and when you really start to 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:31.200 dig into and look at it seriously and look at 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:33.520 like last meals that people actually had, or why we 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:36.000 give people last meals that kind of stuff, it's just 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:39.240 it's grim. I mean, there's no other word to describe it. 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:41.000 It's a grim, grim topic. 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:46.600 So it is buckle up, and it's easy to while 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:50.320 you're sort of researching all this about the food, to 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.760 forget what happens just after the food. 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:55.400 I thought you're gonna say, get hungry. 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:59.640 No, but I found myself over and over being like, 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.720 oh right, and then there was a firing squad, or 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.200 then they were hanged, or then they were put in 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:05.920 the electric chair. 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:07.760 How many times did you forget? 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.160 Two more times? I've forgot six, six times, five times? 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:12.639 Whoever. 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:16.040 No, it's just it was sort of a constant reminder. 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:20.239 So this one won't be, you know, as full of 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:21.040 laughs as usual. 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:23.720 Probably every time we say that it turns out to 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:24.600 be a laugh riot. 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:27.040 Can we go back in time? 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.840 Yeah, I was gonna say, we probably should get historical 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.839 because people have been eating last meals for a very 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:40.600 long time. Apparently the Code of Hammurabi was the first 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:45.560 to describe not last meals but capital punishment execution by 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.520 the state. Right, Yeah, it's not, they didn't say. And also, 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:51.000 by the way, they can have some unleavened bread or 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:55.800 something as a last meal. It's not until I believe 0:02:55.919 --> 0:03:01.440 the Romans, the ancient Greeks, and the Chinese, I guess 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:06.960 contemporaneous Chinese where last meals first start appearing in documentation. 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:12.120 Yeah, there are other examples that weren't necessarily like you're 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:14.560 going to be executed for a crime, like Roman gladiators 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:19.240 supposedly feasted pretty well because they might die. Aztecs would 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:23.680 give the people who were going to be ritually sacrificed 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:28.040 a big feast because they knew what was coming next. 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:32.000 And the woman named Linda ross Meyer, who she's going 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:33.600 to come up quite a bit because she's done a 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:36.000 lot of studying on this stuff, had a paper in 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.840 two thousand and eight where she said, you know, I 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:40.440 think a lot of this is based on the Last 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:44.040 Supper of Christ, and you'll see that kind of throughout, 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:49.520 whether it's seventeenth century England or twenty first century America, 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:55.400 where someone may just request the Eucharist as their last meal. 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.000 Yeah, and not only that being the last meal. Apparently 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:03.160 the more religious the group is, the more likely they 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.320 are to ritualize. 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:08.320 Executions, which is surprising, I guess, but maybe not not. 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.680 Really if you think about like the state executing somebody 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:13.960 and you take it to like an Orwellian level, this 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.960 that's just so dispersonal and dispatching. It just gets to 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.440 the point it's an execution done next, you know. Yeah, 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:24.760 it makes sense to me that religious types would be like, no, 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.120 we've got to like add this ritual to it, to 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.039 that ritual to it to give it meaning, you know, 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.320 or else it's what's the point of it kind of 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:34.239 thing aside just taking a life. 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:37.039 No, that's that's a good point. Like the Puritans, certainly 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.840 they almost have like celebrations of like, hey, you're you're 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:42.839 going back to God, so let's throw a party. 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.039 Can't you just see the condemned like getting elbowed in 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:46.800 the ribs like. 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:47.560 Wright Man lighting up. 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:48.239 It's a party. 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:54.560 Yeah, look easy for you to say, goody, goody Clark, goody. 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.240 Yeah, I guess Clark will do. Yeah, I can't think 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:00.320 of anything better, So. 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.200 Goodie Bryant, you just fire it right back at me. 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.799 Trying to Puritan up the you know Clark. Oh sure, 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:09.680 I guess you could spell with a Y and an 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:10.919 E or something weird like that. 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:12.200 Yeah, they're goodie Mather. 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:17.640 Yeah you can all right. So yeah, the Puritans were 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:20.360 big time into that kind of thing, but they were 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.400 far from the only ones to hole kind of like 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.799 a communal or at least a bit of a feast, 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:29.960 a communal meal or a feast. I guess Germany was 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:34.440 really big on ritualizing it as well, which makes sense 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.279 because they were pretty big into Protestantism by this time. 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:40.720 This is the eighteenth century when Frankfurt used to give 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.960 out the hangman's meal, which is a pretty lavish feast. 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.000 Yeah, sounds like it. There was one they described in 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:53.240 seventeen seventy two from a murderer named Susannah Margaret Brandt, 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:57.080 who had and this is kind of gross to read 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.320 out loud, but there were six officials to eat this 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:04.440 meal with Susannah. But it was three pounds of fried sausages. 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:05.039 Check. 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:09.400 So far not too bad. Ten pounds of beef doesn't 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:13.480 say I was prepared six pounds of baked carp It's 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:20.200 koy you realize twelve pounds of carp is COI I 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:21.040 don't think I knew that. 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:24.680 Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna that's a hill I'll die on. 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.839 I'm probably wrong. I realized in the last episode in 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.400 Mad I did bad math right off of the Big Bat. 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:33.360 But this is I'm gonna stay with this fact. 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.479 Well there's no math involved in baked carp No, but 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:41.239 I could you should be wrong. Twelve pounds of larded 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:43.280 roast veal. 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:44.359 That's a new one to me. 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:49.520 Soup, cabbage, bread, a sweet, and eight and a half 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:54.320 measures of seventeen forty eight wine. I tried to find 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:59.279 out what a measure was in seventeen forty eight. The 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.440 best I could find that it was like five or 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:04.560 six pints. But I don't know if that's right or not. 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:05.960 It's a lot. 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.320 Who knows? So a lot of wine, yeah, for sure. 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.480 And that's an ongoing thing, Chuck. You know, getting the 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:17.120 person drunk before you execute them used to be like 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.720 a long standing tradition, and not just in Europe, you know, 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:25.240 like the I believe the INCA when they sacrificed children 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.680 just basically left them out to die of exposure. They 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:33.000 would get them high usually or possibly drunk on some 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.760 sort of wine. And as we'll see, that is not 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.040 something that's a part of executions today. That that is 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.240 there's just something wrong with that. We've decided, even though 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.360 it makes a lot of sense. But I guess if 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.800 you're trying to exact retribution, you want that person like 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:53.000 fully cognizant of what's happening to them when it's happening 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:55.200 to them. But that's a kind of a new idea 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:56.240 from what I can tell. 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:58.640 Yeah, the same as the last cigarette. You know, you 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.960 have the sort of image in your head of the 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:03.360 firing squad, like someone going and putting a cigarette in 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:06.960 someone's mouth. But even cigarettes, you know, if they're if 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.920 they're not on the prison menu as far as being allowed, 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:11.840 then they don't allow it. 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.080 That's right. I wondered, I wonder why I was researching this. 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:18.400 If I would I if I could have a last cigarette, 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:20.720 if I were being executed, if I would do it, 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:24.200 and I decided I wouldn't, I wouldn't die feeling like, 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:26.840 oh man, I'll let this get to me again, So 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:28.080 I just wouldn't do it. 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:31.000 Oh, good for you. That means you've really quit. 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:35.360 Yeah, agreed. If you wouldn't smoke a cigarette right before 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.240 your execution, you've quit smoking cigarettes. 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:40.959 That's a good It's sort of a baggy T shirt, 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:41.640 but not bad. 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.960 Well, the big baggy T shirts are back, the ones 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.920 from the nineties. Everybody's wearing those now. Yeah, so you 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:51.120 could fit that on it, are they really? Yeah? 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.079 All right, because I couldn't tell because you've been messing 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:53.600 with me a lot. 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:56.240 No, Oh, it's true. Somebody wrote in it was like, 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:57.400 please stop doing that. 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.240 I didn't understand what she meant at first, but I 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.360 was like, oh, you mean when like Josh said something 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:04.439 and he says, I'm just kidding. Yeah, she seems you 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:05.360 pretty mad about it. 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:07.679 Yeah, she didn't like that at all, So like. 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:10.640 Twelve year old boys, that's true, which I took as 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:17.200 a compliment. In London, there was a tradition of and 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.800 this was in I guess the like late seventeen hundreds, 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.599 early eighteen hundreds. I think there was a tradition of 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:27.760 letting the prisoner actually like have friends over and celebrate 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:30.920 and then when they stepped up to the gallows, they 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:33.080 would have a quote great bowl of ale to drink 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.800 at their pleasure as their last refreshment in life. 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:40.160 Yeah, that's one of the suggested origins for falling off 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:42.360 the wagon. That you were taken to the trawls in 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.880 a wagon, remember, and then yeah, get off the wagon 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.199 to have that last drink. Button's right. They decided that 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:48.040 probably wasn't it. 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:53.400 In the US, this came about formally sort of at 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:57.839 the end of the nineteenth century when public executions and 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.680 big sort of hey, let's everyone meet in the town 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:03.640 square and watch someone be hanged, was replaced by a 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:07.400 little more private affair, a little more standardized, with not 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:11.080 as many people around, and they started some prisons started 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:15.959 publishing in newspapers because it sold papers what people wanted 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:16.280 to eat. 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.240 Yeah, and they kind of had to because if not, 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:24.240 then that's just again the state executing people because the 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:27.560 state can or the states decided the point of an 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:31.400 execution is it's the states carrying it out on behalf 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:36.080 of the community. And so since they stopped involving the 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.040 community directly by saying you can come watch this person 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:42.960 be killed because we're killing them for you, they have to. 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:46.720 They had to share enough details to say, we did 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.520 this for you guys, and here's the details of what happened. 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:52.320 And one of the things that kind of came out 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.200 of that custom and new custom in the I guess 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:59.280 late nineteenth century, is sharing what the person requested for 0:10:59.320 --> 0:10:59.920 their last meet. 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:04.520 Yeah, and then what followed was like, should we still 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:08.040 do this? You still hear about this stuff every now 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.800 and then, but it's not as codified. I don't think. 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:16.000 Some states used to have websites that had details like this. 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:22.080 Texas stopped doing that in the early two thousands because 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:27.000 people complained. Arizona apparently still has a web page even 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:31.600 though the last last information informational entry was I think 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:37.000 in twenty fourteen. So this idea that people want to 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:42.400 hear about this has always been intriguing slash controversial. 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:45.160 Right by the way. Texas stopped doing it because people 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.160 complained that they were taking up too much of the 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.720 internet with those details. Because they execute so many people. 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.640 I mean, you can't talk about executions without talking Texas. 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:56.240 That's true. 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.920 Spell it without the ex in both Texas and execution. 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.040 Yeah, and we're gonna talk about Texas again later of course. 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.400 Uh, yes, should we take our early break, Yeah, let's 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:44.680 do it. Well, we're gonna do it, everybody, Okay, so Chuck. 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:49.040 There's some some questions about the purpose of last meal, 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.000 like it's one of those things that you know, it's 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.480 not a part of people's everyday life, and when it is, 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.000 it's you know, arm's length enough these days, Like we 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.120 were saying that it's just it could be a part 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:02.600 of party conversation even but it's if you stop and 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:04.800 think about it, like there's a good question, like why 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:11.080 why would you do that? There's a very famous, uh quote, 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.160 I guess from a guy who was executed in Arkansas 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.040 in I think the nineties, who said, it doesn't make 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.720 any sense because you're basically putting it's like putting gasoline 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.040 in a car that's got no motor, that there's no 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:30.520 reason for this person to need food. Right, we eat 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.800 technically so that we can make it through the next 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:35.320 day and the next day and the next day. It's 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:38.440 like how we gain energy. Once you're executed, you don't 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:40.720 need that energy any longer. So why would we feed 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:45.120 people a last meal? If it makes no sense If 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.320 you step back and look at it as a purely 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:48.040 functional thing. 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.400 Yeah, if you're we can go back to Meyer, who, 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:53.840 like I said, has studied a lot on this, and 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:55.839 she has a few reasons that you know, and all 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:57.600 of these are plausible because it's the kind of thing 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.800 where there is no like quote, you know, correct answer, 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:05.440 but so people can sort of speculate. And she said, 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:07.400 you know, like you kind of hinted at earlier, like 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.720 it it would just be extermination and have no meaning. 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:14.960 So people like to attach meaning to things. It might 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:20.880 be help the prison officials make them feel better, like hey, 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.240 like it's nothing personal, it's my job. Here's this nice meal. 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.160 Yeah, not in like a direct way like they that's 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:29.560 why the officials are doing it, but almost like it's 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:31.080 there's a subtext to it. 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.960 Right, Yeah, exactly, this one makes a lot of sense. 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:38.160 Maybe it's even like a tool to keep the prisoner 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:42.560 passive and like, hey, you know, like the threat that 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:44.680 that could go away if you don't behave yourself on 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:45.440 the way out. 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.480 Yeah. And there's a guy named Brent Cunningham who wrote 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:52.000 a really good article on this in Lapham's Quarterly, and 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:55.280 he kind of concluded something that dovetails with what Meyer 0:14:55.440 --> 0:15:00.640 was saying, that we were showing that the person has humanity, 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:04.320 so it's adding meaning to the whole process. But his 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.400 was kind of a darker take on it, that we're 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:12.320 adding meaning to the process because we have stripped the 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.920 person of their humanity so thoroughly while they were in prison, 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:18.720 they were in number, they were like kept in a cage, 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:22.880 they were not allowed to do stuff without permission. That 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:28.320 by allowing them a last meal, we're re bestowing humanity 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.520 back on them, so we see them as a person again, 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:33.120 so we can then kill them to get the maximum 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.560 retribution out of killing them. Right, Does that make sense, 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.120 Like we're humanizing them so we can get the most 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.960 satisfaction out of their death, because if they're not humanized, 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:48.000 then there's no free will, there's no We're just killing 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.560 like a machine or something like that, so there's not 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:55.760 as much closure, I guess as if we if we 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.000 didn't give them a last meal. That was his take, 0:15:58.040 --> 0:15:59.800 and that really resonated with. 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:03.680 Me totally, Like, enjoy that steak, buddy, because you know 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.120 you're getting what's coming to you. That kind of attitude. 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.440 Hopefully they don't say things like that to people while 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.760 they're eating that last steak, But it's socially speaking. You. 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:15.480 Yeah, I was talking about like the person at home, 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:17.240 not necessarily the server. 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:18.720 Of the state. I know you are, but I could 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:20.760 not let that one pass and not jump on it. 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.640 Refusing a last meal is something that happens all the 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.920 time and always has as an active protest. There was 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:32.120 one person named Lawrence Hayes who was on death row 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:37.840 but I think eventually was found innocent and was a 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:39.920 member a founding member of Campaign to End the Death 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:43.160 Penalty who basically said, yeah, I wouldn't have taken a 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:45.280 last meal because it's a gimmick just to make us 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.400 feel better about this like terrible process. 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:47.840 Yeah. 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.240 And then there there is one study of close to 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.280 two hundred and fifty people who are executed over about 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.480 a four year period in the two thousands found that 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:00.840 twenty nine percent of people who insist they were innocent 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:04.600 declined to last meal, compared to eight percent who said not, Like, yeah, 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.720 I did it. Yeah, so that's a pretty big dif. 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:10.719 Yeah, that's a huge difference too. And it makes sense too. 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:12.680 I wouldn't want anything from the people who are about 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:14.800 to unjustly kill me. I wouldn't want to be in 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:19.840 their dead at all. Yeah, that's what I'm guessing one 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.040 of the reasons why they would protest it. At least 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:22.800 that's why I would. 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:25.640 Yeah, and I think to draw a little more attention. 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:30.800 Plus I would also kind of manipulate them into offering 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:32.720 me a cigarette, so I could be like, no, I 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:35.040 don't want it, you can keep your stupid cigarette. 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.280 Yeah, and then say, and I used to love smoking. 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:40.439 Right, but you guys ruined it for me. 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:45.520 There are a few legal scholars a guy named Andrew Davies, 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:50.320 Sabrina Atkins, and Sarah Gerwig Moore who about thirteen years 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.800 ago and twenty ten looked at sort of the rules 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:56.400 on the books in the thirty five states who are 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:04.600 still punishing capitally and twenty ten, two of them hadn't 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.840 executed anyone, even they were still allowed to in decades, 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.959 and they didn't have protocols. Of the remaining thirty three. 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:15.159 Fifteen had no specific rules of that last meal. Some 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:21.560 had suggestions. Five states had spending limits from fifty bucks 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:26.040 in Cali all the way to fifteen dollars in Oklahoma. 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:30.560 Georgia had some specifics like, hey, if they want a lobster, 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:32.480 we're going to go down and get it at Public's. 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:34.439 We're not going to fly it down for Maine or 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:39.960 something like that. Sure, and then I think a few 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:45.560 states three of them would deny the meal altogether and said, 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:48.680 you're gonna like, you'll get a last meal, but it's 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:50.840 going to be whatever is on the prison menu, Like 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:52.000 nothing special for you. 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.040 I know, couldn't you when you be like, man, cabbage 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:59.520 really had to be cabbage tonight tonight? It just seems, 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.240 you know, like it's that to me is worse than 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:08.240 denying a last meal altogether. For some reason. It's just 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:10.600 I don't know, I can't quite put my finger on it, 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:12.480 but just being like, nope, you get what everybody else 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:15.040 gets for your last meal. I just feel like it's 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:17.760 worse than saying no, you can't have one at all 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:19.360 for some somehow. 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:22.040 Yeah, And it's not you know, you sort of get 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.439 the idea from movies that they like, you know, wipe 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:29.440 their mouth with from the lobster and then like get 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.720 up and walk down the hall toward the execution chamber, right, 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:36.680 And that's not happening. Basically, It's usually like the day 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:41.560 before because I imagine executing someone on a big I mean, 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.640 some of these meals, as we'll see, are humongous. It's 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.359 probably not a good idea for a lot of reasons. 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:50.320 Yeah, I can actually interfere with the effects of the 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:55.800 drugs that they use to execute people, now, you know. Yeah, 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.440 and again, remember we said that like, the more religious 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:01.400 a group is, or like state or something like that, 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:06.679 more likely they are to ritualize executions. And apparently that 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:13.480 study also found that the more fundamentalist Christian the state 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:18.720 population was, as well as the least amount spent per 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:22.000 prison in MA overall, and the ones with the largest 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.679 prison populations where those three dovetailed, they typically were the 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.440 most generous with the last meals. 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:29.880 Yeah, really interesting. 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:32.600 But Meyer had a word for that. She called it 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:37.480 retributive ritualism. And you're not supposed to say it like 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:42.800 porky pig. You just say retributive ritualism. 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:45.240 That's funny. I see. I knew there would be a 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:49.760 joker to in here. That's in good taste. Sure, Texas, 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:54.119 which we said we would get back to, they changed 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:58.879 things in twenty eleven. Before this is they were one 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:00.520 of the states that were like in you just get 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:05.320 the regular prison food whatever that is. But what really 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:09.960 changed was when a man named Lawrence Russell Brewer, there's 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:14.520 always three names requested, and I'm going to read all 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.919 of these because this is sort of indicative of how 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:23.280 ridiculous these meals can get. Two chicken fried steaks, triple cheeseburger, 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:29.600 an omelet with ground beef, tomatoes, onions, bell peppers, and jalapenos, 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:37.040 fried okra with ketchup, three fajitas, pint of bluebell ice cream, 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:39.919 a pound of barbecue with a loaf of white bread, 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:46.480 a meat lover's pizza, three root beers, and peanut butter 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:52.080 fudge with crushed peanuts. Yeah, a whole slab of it. 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.879 Brewer refused to eat the food, and it seems like 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:00.520 it was sort of the waste of time and money. 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:04.400 Really got under the skin of a Texas State Senator 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:09.000 name John Whitmyer, and he had kind of had enough 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:11.359 at that point and was like, no, we got to 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:14.400 cut this off. This is a ridiculous privilege that shouldn't 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:14.879 be allowed. 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:19.520 Yeah, he spotted an easy way to energize his base. 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:23.600 So he wrote to the Texas Criminal Justice Division and 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:26.280 said so he said something like, quote, is it is 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:29.320 extremely inappropriate to give a person sentenced to death such 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:32.199 a privilege, and that he pointed out, and this is 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:36.280