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Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Josh and Chuck here to remind you that

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Speaker 1: our last three shows of the year. Boy, this is

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Speaker 1: a good show this year are taking place very soon

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Speaker 1: and tickets are still available.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so get in the saddle and come out and

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Speaker 2: see us partners in Orlando, Atlanta, and Nashville.

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Speaker 1: Just go to stuff youshould know dot com and click

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Speaker 1: on the tour link and you can get all your

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Speaker 1: tickets right there. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff you

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Speaker 2: should Know, part of the very Grim edition.

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Speaker 1: That's right. All star writer Livia helped us with this,

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Speaker 1: so you know it's going to be great. I'm just

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Speaker 1: trying to butter Livia up so she knows how much

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Speaker 1: we appreciate her.

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Speaker 2: Sure. This topic though, is like she did a good

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Speaker 2: job with it. But it's one of those things where

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Speaker 2: people are all morbidly fascinated with it, right. It's just

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Speaker 2: kind of one of those things where you might talk

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Speaker 2: about at a party or something like that, what would

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Speaker 2: be your last meal kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but when you dig into.

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Speaker 2: It, you're like, man, this is a dark topic. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because at the end of the day, what you're talking

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Speaker 2: about is ultimately a ritual that surrounds the execution of

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Speaker 2: a human life. Yeah, and when you really start to

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Speaker 2: dig into and look at it seriously and look at

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Speaker 2: like last meals that people actually had, or why we

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Speaker 2: give people last meals that kind of stuff, it's just

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Speaker 2: it's grim. I mean, there's no other word to describe it.

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Speaker 2: It's a grim, grim topic.

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Speaker 1: So it is buckle up, and it's easy to while

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Speaker 1: you're sort of researching all this about the food, to

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Speaker 1: forget what happens just after the food.

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Speaker 2: I thought you're gonna say, get hungry.

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Speaker 1: No, but I found myself over and over being like,

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Speaker 1: oh right, and then there was a firing squad, or

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Speaker 1: then they were hanged, or then they were put in

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Speaker 1: the electric chair.

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Speaker 2: How many times did you forget?

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Speaker 1: Two more times? I've forgot six, six times, five times?

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Speaker 2: Whoever.

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Speaker 1: No, it's just it was sort of a constant reminder.

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Speaker 1: So this one won't be, you know, as full of

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Speaker 1: laughs as usual.

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Speaker 2: Probably every time we say that it turns out to

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Speaker 2: be a laugh riot.

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Speaker 1: Can we go back in time?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say, we probably should get historical

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Speaker 2: because people have been eating last meals for a very

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Speaker 2: long time. Apparently the Code of Hammurabi was the first

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Speaker 2: to describe not last meals but capital punishment execution by

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Speaker 2: the state. Right, Yeah, it's not, they didn't say. And also,

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Speaker 2: by the way, they can have some unleavened bread or

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Speaker 2: something as a last meal. It's not until I believe

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Speaker 2: the Romans, the ancient Greeks, and the Chinese, I guess

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Speaker 2: contemporaneous Chinese where last meals first start appearing in documentation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there are other examples that weren't necessarily like you're

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Speaker 1: going to be executed for a crime, like Roman gladiators

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Speaker 1: supposedly feasted pretty well because they might die. Aztecs would

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Speaker 1: give the people who were going to be ritually sacrificed

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Speaker 1: a big feast because they knew what was coming next.

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Speaker 1: And the woman named Linda ross Meyer, who she's going

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Speaker 1: to come up quite a bit because she's done a

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Speaker 1: lot of studying on this stuff, had a paper in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eight where she said, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of this is based on the Last

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Speaker 1: Supper of Christ, and you'll see that kind of throughout,

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Speaker 1: whether it's seventeenth century England or twenty first century America,

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Speaker 1: where someone may just request the Eucharist as their last meal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and not only that being the last meal. Apparently

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Speaker 2: the more religious the group is, the more likely they

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Speaker 2: are to ritualize.

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Speaker 1: Executions, which is surprising, I guess, but maybe not not.

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Speaker 2: Really if you think about like the state executing somebody

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Speaker 2: and you take it to like an Orwellian level, this

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Speaker 2: that's just so dispersonal and dispatching. It just gets to

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Speaker 2: the point it's an execution done next, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it makes sense to me that religious types would be like, no,

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Speaker 2: we've got to like add this ritual to it, to

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Speaker 2: that ritual to it to give it meaning, you know,

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Speaker 2: or else it's what's the point of it kind of

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Speaker 2: thing aside just taking a life.

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Speaker 1: No, that's that's a good point. Like the Puritans, certainly

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Speaker 1: they almost have like celebrations of like, hey, you're you're

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Speaker 1: going back to God, so let's throw a party.

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Speaker 2: Can't you just see the condemned like getting elbowed in

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Speaker 2: the ribs like.

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Speaker 1: Wright Man lighting up.

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Speaker 2: It's a party.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, look easy for you to say, goody, goody Clark, goody.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess Clark will do. Yeah, I can't think

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Speaker 2: of anything better, So.

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Speaker 1: Goodie Bryant, you just fire it right back at me.

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Speaker 2: Trying to Puritan up the you know Clark. Oh sure,

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Speaker 2: I guess you could spell with a Y and an

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Speaker 2: E or something weird like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're goodie Mather.

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Speaker 2: Yeah you can all right. So yeah, the Puritans were

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Speaker 2: big time into that kind of thing, but they were

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Speaker 2: far from the only ones to hole kind of like

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Speaker 2: a communal or at least a bit of a feast,

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Speaker 2: a communal meal or a feast. I guess Germany was

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Speaker 2: really big on ritualizing it as well, which makes sense

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Speaker 2: because they were pretty big into Protestantism by this time.

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Speaker 2: This is the eighteenth century when Frankfurt used to give

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Speaker 2: out the hangman's meal, which is a pretty lavish feast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sounds like it. There was one they described in

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Speaker 1: seventeen seventy two from a murderer named Susannah Margaret Brandt,

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Speaker 1: who had and this is kind of gross to read

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Speaker 1: out loud, but there were six officials to eat this

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Speaker 1: meal with Susannah. But it was three pounds of fried sausages.

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Speaker 2: Check.

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Speaker 1: So far not too bad. Ten pounds of beef doesn't

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Speaker 1: say I was prepared six pounds of baked carp It's

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Speaker 1: koy you realize twelve pounds of carp is COI I

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Speaker 1: don't think I knew that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna that's a hill I'll die on.

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Speaker 2: I'm probably wrong. I realized in the last episode in

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Speaker 2: Mad I did bad math right off of the Big Bat.

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Speaker 2: But this is I'm gonna stay with this fact.

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Speaker 1: Well there's no math involved in baked carp No, but

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Speaker 1: I could you should be wrong. Twelve pounds of larded

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Speaker 1: roast veal.

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Speaker 2: That's a new one to me.

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Speaker 1: Soup, cabbage, bread, a sweet, and eight and a half

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Speaker 1: measures of seventeen forty eight wine. I tried to find

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Speaker 1: out what a measure was in seventeen forty eight. The

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Speaker 1: best I could find that it was like five or

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Speaker 1: six pints. But I don't know if that's right or not.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot.

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Speaker 2: Who knows? So a lot of wine, yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 2: And that's an ongoing thing, Chuck. You know, getting the

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Speaker 2: person drunk before you execute them used to be like

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Speaker 2: a long standing tradition, and not just in Europe, you know,

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Speaker 2: like the I believe the INCA when they sacrificed children

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Speaker 2: just basically left them out to die of exposure. They

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Speaker 2: would get them high usually or possibly drunk on some

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Speaker 2: sort of wine. And as we'll see, that is not

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Speaker 2: something that's a part of executions today. That that is

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Speaker 2: there's just something wrong with that. We've decided, even though

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Speaker 2: it makes a lot of sense. But I guess if

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Speaker 2: you're trying to exact retribution, you want that person like

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Speaker 2: fully cognizant of what's happening to them when it's happening

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Speaker 2: to them. But that's a kind of a new idea

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Speaker 2: from what I can tell.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the same as the last cigarette. You know, you

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Speaker 1: have the sort of image in your head of the

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Speaker 1: firing squad, like someone going and putting a cigarette in

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Speaker 1: someone's mouth. But even cigarettes, you know, if they're if

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Speaker 1: they're not on the prison menu as far as being allowed,

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Speaker 1: then they don't allow it.

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Speaker 2: That's right. I wondered, I wonder why I was researching this.

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Speaker 2: If I would I if I could have a last cigarette,

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Speaker 2: if I were being executed, if I would do it,

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Speaker 2: and I decided I wouldn't, I wouldn't die feeling like,

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Speaker 2: oh man, I'll let this get to me again, So

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Speaker 2: I just wouldn't do it.

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Speaker 1: Oh, good for you. That means you've really quit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed. If you wouldn't smoke a cigarette right before

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Speaker 2: your execution, you've quit smoking cigarettes.

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Speaker 1: That's a good It's sort of a baggy T shirt,

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Speaker 1: but not bad.

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Speaker 2: Well, the big baggy T shirts are back, the ones

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Speaker 2: from the nineties. Everybody's wearing those now. Yeah, so you

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Speaker 2: could fit that on it, are they really? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: All right, because I couldn't tell because you've been messing

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Speaker 1: with me a lot.

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Speaker 2: No, Oh, it's true. Somebody wrote in it was like,

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Speaker 2: please stop doing that.

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Speaker 1: I didn't understand what she meant at first, but I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, you mean when like Josh said something

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Speaker 1: and he says, I'm just kidding. Yeah, she seems you

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Speaker 1: pretty mad about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she didn't like that at all, So like.

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Speaker 1: Twelve year old boys, that's true, which I took as

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Speaker 1: a compliment. In London, there was a tradition of and

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Speaker 1: this was in I guess the like late seventeen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: early eighteen hundreds. I think there was a tradition of

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Speaker 1: letting the prisoner actually like have friends over and celebrate

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Speaker 1: and then when they stepped up to the gallows, they

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Speaker 1: would have a quote great bowl of ale to drink

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Speaker 1: at their pleasure as their last refreshment in life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the suggested origins for falling off

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Speaker 2: the wagon. That you were taken to the trawls in

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Speaker 2: a wagon, remember, and then yeah, get off the wagon

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Speaker 2: to have that last drink. Button's right. They decided that

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Speaker 2: probably wasn't it.

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Speaker 1: In the US, this came about formally sort of at

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Speaker 1: the end of the nineteenth century when public executions and

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Speaker 1: big sort of hey, let's everyone meet in the town

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Speaker 1: square and watch someone be hanged, was replaced by a

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Speaker 1: little more private affair, a little more standardized, with not

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Speaker 1: as many people around, and they started some prisons started

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Speaker 1: publishing in newspapers because it sold papers what people wanted

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Speaker 1: to eat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they kind of had to because if not,

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Speaker 2: then that's just again the state executing people because the

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Speaker 2: state can or the states decided the point of an

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Speaker 2: execution is it's the states carrying it out on behalf

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Speaker 2: of the community. And so since they stopped involving the

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Speaker 2: community directly by saying you can come watch this person

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Speaker 2: be killed because we're killing them for you, they have to.

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Speaker 2: They had to share enough details to say, we did

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Speaker 2: this for you guys, and here's the details of what happened.

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Speaker 2: And one of the things that kind of came out

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Speaker 2: of that custom and new custom in the I guess

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Speaker 2: late nineteenth century, is sharing what the person requested for

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Speaker 2: their last meet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then what followed was like, should we still

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Speaker 1: do this? You still hear about this stuff every now

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Speaker 1: and then, but it's not as codified. I don't think.

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Speaker 1: Some states used to have websites that had details like this.

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Speaker 1: Texas stopped doing that in the early two thousands because

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Speaker 1: people complained. Arizona apparently still has a web page even

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Speaker 1: though the last last information informational entry was I think

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Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen. So this idea that people want to

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Speaker 1: hear about this has always been intriguing slash controversial.

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Speaker 2: Right by the way. Texas stopped doing it because people

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Speaker 2: complained that they were taking up too much of the

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Speaker 2: internet with those details. Because they execute so many people.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can't talk about executions without talking Texas.

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Speaker 1: That's true.

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Speaker 2: Spell it without the ex in both Texas and execution.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're gonna talk about Texas again later of course.

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Speaker 2: Uh, yes, should we take our early break, Yeah, let's

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Speaker 2: do it. Well, we're gonna do it, everybody, Okay, so Chuck.

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Speaker 2: There's some some questions about the purpose of last meal,

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Speaker 2: like it's one of those things that you know, it's

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Speaker 2: not a part of people's everyday life, and when it is,

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Speaker 2: it's you know, arm's length enough these days, Like we

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Speaker 2: were saying that it's just it could be a part

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Speaker 2: of party conversation even but it's if you stop and

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Speaker 2: think about it, like there's a good question, like why

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Speaker 2: why would you do that? There's a very famous, uh quote,

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Speaker 2: I guess from a guy who was executed in Arkansas

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Speaker 2: in I think the nineties, who said, it doesn't make

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Speaker 2: any sense because you're basically putting it's like putting gasoline

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Speaker 2: in a car that's got no motor, that there's no

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Speaker 2: reason for this person to need food. Right, we eat

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Speaker 2: technically so that we can make it through the next

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Speaker 2: day and the next day and the next day. It's

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Speaker 2: like how we gain energy. Once you're executed, you don't

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Speaker 2: need that energy any longer. So why would we feed

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Speaker 2: people a last meal? If it makes no sense If

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Speaker 2: you step back and look at it as a purely

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Speaker 2: functional thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're we can go back to Meyer, who,

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Speaker 1: like I said, has studied a lot on this, and

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Speaker 1: she has a few reasons that you know, and all

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Speaker 1: of these are plausible because it's the kind of thing

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Speaker 1: where there is no like quote, you know, correct answer,

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Speaker 1: but so people can sort of speculate. And she said,

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Speaker 1: you know, like you kind of hinted at earlier, like

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Speaker 1: it it would just be extermination and have no meaning.

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Speaker 1: So people like to attach meaning to things. It might

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Speaker 1: be help the prison officials make them feel better, like hey,

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Speaker 1: like it's nothing personal, it's my job. Here's this nice meal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not in like a direct way like they that's

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Speaker 2: why the officials are doing it, but almost like it's

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Speaker 2: there's a subtext to it.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, exactly, this one makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's even like a tool to keep the prisoner

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Speaker 1: passive and like, hey, you know, like the threat that

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Speaker 1: that could go away if you don't behave yourself on

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Speaker 1: the way out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's a guy named Brent Cunningham who wrote

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Speaker 2: a really good article on this in Lapham's Quarterly, and

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Speaker 2: he kind of concluded something that dovetails with what Meyer

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Speaker 2: was saying, that we were showing that the person has humanity,

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Speaker 2: so it's adding meaning to the whole process. But his

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Speaker 2: was kind of a darker take on it, that we're

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Speaker 2: adding meaning to the process because we have stripped the

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Speaker 2: person of their humanity so thoroughly while they were in prison,

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Speaker 2: they were in number, they were like kept in a cage,

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Speaker 2: they were not allowed to do stuff without permission. That

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Speaker 2: by allowing them a last meal, we're re bestowing humanity

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Speaker 2: back on them, so we see them as a person again,

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Speaker 2: so we can then kill them to get the maximum

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Speaker 2: retribution out of killing them. Right, Does that make sense,

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Speaker 2: Like we're humanizing them so we can get the most

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Speaker 2: satisfaction out of their death, because if they're not humanized,

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Speaker 2: then there's no free will, there's no We're just killing

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Speaker 2: like a machine or something like that, so there's not

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Speaker 2: as much closure, I guess as if we if we

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Speaker 2: didn't give them a last meal. That was his take,

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Speaker 2: and that really resonated with.

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Speaker 1: Me totally, Like, enjoy that steak, buddy, because you know

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Speaker 1: you're getting what's coming to you. That kind of attitude.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully they don't say things like that to people while

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Speaker 2: they're eating that last steak, But it's socially speaking. You.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was talking about like the person at home,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily the server.

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Speaker 2: Of the state. I know you are, but I could

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Speaker 2: not let that one pass and not jump on it.

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Speaker 1: Refusing a last meal is something that happens all the

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Speaker 1: time and always has as an active protest. There was

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Speaker 1: one person named Lawrence Hayes who was on death row

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Speaker 1: but I think eventually was found innocent and was a

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Speaker 1: member a founding member of Campaign to End the Death

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Speaker 1: Penalty who basically said, yeah, I wouldn't have taken a

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Speaker 1: last meal because it's a gimmick just to make us

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Speaker 1: feel better about this like terrible process.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then there there is one study of close to

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Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty people who are executed over about

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Speaker 1: a four year period in the two thousands found that

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Speaker 1: twenty nine percent of people who insist they were innocent

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Speaker 1: declined to last meal, compared to eight percent who said not, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I did it. Yeah, so that's a pretty big dif.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a huge difference too. And it makes sense too.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't want anything from the people who are about

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Speaker 2: to unjustly kill me. I wouldn't want to be in

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Speaker 2: their dead at all. Yeah, that's what I'm guessing one

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Speaker 2: of the reasons why they would protest it. At least

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Speaker 2: that's why I would.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think to draw a little more attention.

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Speaker 2: Plus I would also kind of manipulate them into offering

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Speaker 2: me a cigarette, so I could be like, no, I

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Speaker 2: don't want it, you can keep your stupid cigarette.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then say, and I used to love smoking.

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Speaker 2: Right, but you guys ruined it for me.

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Speaker 1: There are a few legal scholars a guy named Andrew Davies,

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Speaker 1: Sabrina Atkins, and Sarah Gerwig Moore who about thirteen years

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Speaker 1: ago and twenty ten looked at sort of the rules

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Speaker 1: on the books in the thirty five states who are

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Speaker 1: still punishing capitally and twenty ten, two of them hadn't

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Speaker 1: executed anyone, even they were still allowed to in decades,

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Speaker 1: and they didn't have protocols. Of the remaining thirty three.

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Speaker 1: Fifteen had no specific rules of that last meal. Some

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Speaker 1: had suggestions. Five states had spending limits from fifty bucks

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Speaker 1: in Cali all the way to fifteen dollars in Oklahoma.

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Speaker 1: Georgia had some specifics like, hey, if they want a lobster,

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Speaker 1: we're going to go down and get it at Public's.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to fly it down for Maine or

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Speaker 1: something like that. Sure, and then I think a few

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Speaker 1: states three of them would deny the meal altogether and said,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna like, you'll get a last meal, but it's

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Speaker 1: going to be whatever is on the prison menu, Like

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Speaker 1: nothing special for you.

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Speaker 2: I know, couldn't you when you be like, man, cabbage

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Speaker 2: really had to be cabbage tonight tonight? It just seems,

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Speaker 2: you know, like it's that to me is worse than

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Speaker 2: denying a last meal altogether. For some reason. It's just

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I can't quite put my finger on it,

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Speaker 2: but just being like, nope, you get what everybody else

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Speaker 2: gets for your last meal. I just feel like it's

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Speaker 2: worse than saying no, you can't have one at all

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Speaker 2: for some somehow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's not you know, you sort of get

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Speaker 1: the idea from movies that they like, you know, wipe

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Speaker 1: their mouth with from the lobster and then like get

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Speaker 1: up and walk down the hall toward the execution chamber, right,

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Speaker 1: And that's not happening. Basically, It's usually like the day

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Speaker 1: before because I imagine executing someone on a big I mean,

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Speaker 1: some of these meals, as we'll see, are humongous. It's

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Speaker 1: probably not a good idea for a lot of reasons.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can actually interfere with the effects of the

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Speaker 2: drugs that they use to execute people, now, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and again, remember we said that like, the more religious

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Speaker 2: a group is, or like state or something like that,

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Speaker 2: more likely they are to ritualize executions. And apparently that

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Speaker 2: study also found that the more fundamentalist Christian the state

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Speaker 2: population was, as well as the least amount spent per

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Speaker 2: prison in MA overall, and the ones with the largest

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Speaker 2: prison populations where those three dovetailed, they typically were the

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Speaker 2: most generous with the last meals.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, really interesting.

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Speaker 2: But Meyer had a word for that. She called it

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Speaker 2: retributive ritualism. And you're not supposed to say it like

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Speaker 2: porky pig. You just say retributive ritualism.

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Speaker 1: That's funny. I see. I knew there would be a

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Speaker 1: joker to in here. That's in good taste. Sure, Texas,

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Speaker 1: which we said we would get back to, they changed

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Speaker 1: things in twenty eleven. Before this is they were one

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Speaker 1: of the states that were like in you just get

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Speaker 1: the regular prison food whatever that is. But what really

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Speaker 1: changed was when a man named Lawrence Russell Brewer, there's

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Speaker 1: always three names requested, and I'm going to read all

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Speaker 1: of these because this is sort of indicative of how

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Speaker 1: ridiculous these meals can get. Two chicken fried steaks, triple cheeseburger,

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Speaker 1: an omelet with ground beef, tomatoes, onions, bell peppers, and jalapenos,

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Speaker 1: fried okra with ketchup, three fajitas, pint of bluebell ice cream,

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Speaker 1: a pound of barbecue with a loaf of white bread,

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Speaker 1: a meat lover's pizza, three root beers, and peanut butter

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Speaker 1: fudge with crushed peanuts. Yeah, a whole slab of it.

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Speaker 1: Brewer refused to eat the food, and it seems like

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Speaker 1: it was sort of the waste of time and money.

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Speaker 1: Really got under the skin of a Texas State Senator

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Speaker 1: name John Whitmyer, and he had kind of had enough

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Speaker 1: at that point and was like, no, we got to

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Speaker 1: cut this off. This is a ridiculous privilege that shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be allowed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he spotted an easy way to energize his base.

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Speaker 2: So he wrote to the Texas Criminal Justice Division and

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Speaker 2: said so he said something like, quote, is it is

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Speaker 2: extremely inappropriate to give a person sentenced to death such

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Speaker 2: a privilege, and that he pointed out, and this is

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Speaker 2: very important that Lawrence Russell Brewer, who was one of

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Speaker 2: the white supremacist scumbags who dragged James Lee Boyd to

403
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Speaker 2: death behind a pickup truck in the nineties, that he

404
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Speaker 2: never gave James Lee Boyd the opportunity for a last meal.

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Speaker 2: That was his reasoning, and that is very sound reasoning.

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Speaker 2: But what John Whitmer, the state senator from Texas, is

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Speaker 2: missing is that one of the points of a last

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Speaker 2: meal is for the state to show that it's murder.

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Speaker 2: Its execution of this person is different from the crime

410
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Speaker 2: that the person's being executed for the state is saying like,

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Speaker 2: you have to die, but we can still treat you

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Speaker 2: humanly even though you didn't treat your victim humanly, and

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Speaker 2: so it elevates the state morally. And that seemed to

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Speaker 2: be totally lost on John Whitmyer, because one of the

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Speaker 2: reasons he saw for not giving somebody that meal is

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Speaker 2: that they hadn't given that to their victim, that opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting to think of it that way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it worked, and they stopped serving last meals

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Speaker 2: in Texas thanks to again Lawrence Russell Brewer, one of

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Speaker 2: the white supremacists comebacks who dragged James Lee Boyd behind

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Speaker 2: a pickup truck to death.

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Speaker 1: That's right. When this happened, there was a former inmate

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Speaker 1: who cooked these last meals as part of his job

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Speaker 1: in prison, and then I think afterward even named Brian Price,

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Speaker 1: who said, you know what, I'll continue to make these meals.

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Speaker 1: It won't cost the state a penny. But Texas said, no,

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Speaker 1: thank you, We're not going to take you up on

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Speaker 1: that offer. And apparently Price got a lot of emails

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Speaker 1: from people like supporting him and saying, you know, we

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Speaker 1: think he did the right thing and making a humane

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Speaker 1: effort at least, and ended up writing a cookbook called

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Speaker 1: Meals to Die For.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you said there'd be some tasteless joke or tasteful

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Speaker 2: jokes in here. That was not one of them.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that was Brian Price's joke. Right.

436
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 2: I know we can distance ourselves from that. Yeah, but yeah,

437
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: he cooked two hundred and eighteen last meals in ten

438
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:41,199
Speaker 2: years again in Texas. Right, And I guess when he

439
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 2: was offering to do this for free, like he was

440
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 2: no longer a prisoner, but he was willing to come

441
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 2: to the prison yeah, and bring his own ingredients and

442
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 2: cook on his own time, and the state still said no.

443
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 2: And again, the reason why they said is that it's

444
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 2: not really money, it's the sentiment behind the whole thing

445
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 2: that they're opposed to, so they turned them down. But

446
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 2: in his book, he kind of chronicled with some of

447
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 2: the people typically asked for, and cheeseburger in French fries

448
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 2: is like one of the biggest or one of the

449
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 2: most frequent requests. But also there were those ones that

450
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 2: were kind of fancy, like lobster, shrimp or something like

451
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 2: that people wanted as their last meal. But because he

452
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 2: had to work from the ingredients in the prison kitchen,

453
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 2: they didn't have lobster or shrimp typically on hand, so

454
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 2: he would just try to get creative with it. And

455
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 2: apparently at first this was his job. He was tasked

456
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 2: with this, and he wasn't very comfortable with it because

457
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 2: he believed in the death penalty, and I think he

458
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 2: felt a bit like a scumbag cooking for a scumbag

459
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 2: he was about to die. And then he had a

460
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 2: conversation with a guy whose job it was to clean

461
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: up the execution room after executions, and he said that

462
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 2: cleaning up the actual execution room itself never really bothered him.

463
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 2: What bothered him was cleaning up like the tear stains

464
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 2: and the lipstick stains off of the window to the

465
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 2: execution room that the family members left behind. That that

466
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: really stuck with us. And so that conversation with that

467
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 2: guy really stuck with Price, and it kind of changed

468
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 2: his view of the whole thing, so that he started

469
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 2: to think of imagining the person he was cooking for

470
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 2: as one of his family members because he was thinking

471
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 2: of the family and apparently eventually changed his mind on

472
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 2: the death penalty altogether.

473
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 1: Oh wow. Yeah, So we talked about what you would

474
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: call like status food. He said, shrimp and lobster and

475
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: you know, like caviare and you know, stuff like that.

476
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: That's a common request.

477
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 2: I said, fancy food.

478
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but Livy called it status food.

479
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I know that's what it's supposed to be called.

480
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,719
Speaker 1: And I would agree, And it is fancy. I mean,

481
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: what's fancier than a sea spider?

482
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 2: Right? Is sea cockroach?

483
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 1: Was it cockroach?

484
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 2: Yeah?

485
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: Oh okay, I thought were spiders anyway, not literally thought

486
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: they were spiders.

487
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 2: There are sea spiders and they're one of the most

488
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: terrifying things on this planet.

489
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: Oh sure, oh man, but not as tasty as a lobster.

490
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: Probably not you into lobster.

491
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 2: I like lobster. It's fine. I'm not like Gaga for it,

492
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 2: but yeah, I'll eat. I'll ead a good lobster. I

493
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 2: public's lobster bisc out of a plastic container the other day,

494
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 2: So yeah, I guess I do kind of like lobster.

495
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: Oh man. They sell this wish you in the name

496
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: of the company. There's a chowder, a claim chowder, and

497
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: a lobster bisc then the frozen aisle.

498
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 2: I'm not tried. I know what you're talking about them?

499
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 1: Is that the one? It's good you drop the whole

500
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: bag in boiling water and just let it sort of

501
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: flaw itself and cook.

502
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: I think they also make a gumbo, and if it's

503
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 2: the same company, the gumbo's not that good.

504
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: M the bisk and the chowder are good.

505
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll try them because I gave up on them

506
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 2: after the gumbo because I really wanted some gumbo. I

507
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 2: was like score when I saw it and I made it,

508
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 2: and I was like, I still want gumbo.

509
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: I will love lobster and like a bisk or certain

510
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: other things, but I don't know that I've ever ordered

511
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: a lobster or like a lobster tail.

512
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: Oh, I have Red Lobster.

513
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: Probably, so for real, that was like too fancy for us.

514
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 2: The really, you don't go to Red Lobster for the

515
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: actual seafood. You go for the salad with their rants dressing,

516
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 2: which is off the chain, or and or their cheddar biscuits,

517
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 2: which if you get them when they're fresh, they're really good.

518
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: Do you want to know something funny. One of the

519
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: only times I've literally ever eaten at Red Lobster was

520
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: with you.

521
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 2: When did we eat at Red Lobster?

522
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: We went? I think when Discovery owned us. I think

523
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: we went in Silver Springs, Maryland when we were there

524
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: for a meeting or something. You were like, let's go

525
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: to Red Lobster. Let's go to Red Lobster.

526
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 2: I actually remember that now.

527
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. And we had those Cheddar biscuits and man, those

528
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: are good.

529
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 2: They are God, I'm glad you're one and only Red

530
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 2: Lobster experience with me.

531
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: Then, Yeah, it was too that was too ritzy for

532
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: us as a teacher kid.

533
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, they just needed what to spend

534
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 2: their money on in red lob service. Part of it it.

535
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: Was probably a special meal for you guys there, right,

536
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: yeah or not?

537
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean we typically Mom made like chicken, ola

538
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: king and pepper steak and stuff like. Sure. You know,

539
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: it occurred to me, Chuck, as we were having this

540
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: conversation that we're talking about food and food we love.

541
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 2: Is that distasteful to talk about that have that kind

542
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 2: of tangent in an episode about last meals and executions?

543
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: I don't think so. It just it can live it

544
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: as its own little side conversation.

545
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: I just wanted to gut check it.

546
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we're okay. But how we got started

547
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: on that was status foods or symbolic requests. So you know,

548
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about some of these over the

549
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: years that have been made symbolically. There was a murderer

550
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: named Victor Figure in Iowa, I think the last Iowa

551
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: and the last federal inmate to be executed previous to Timothy.

552
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: They yeah, exactly, as for a single olive with a

553
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: pit saying he hoped that the fruit of the tree

554
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: of peace would grow from his grave, and he.

555
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 2: Kind of got his wish because it was thirty seven

556
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: years before somebody was executed federally.

557
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. What about Gary Gilmour famously from the book to

558
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: the Executioner song in movie.

559
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was executed in Utah, and one of the

560
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 2: reasons why he became so famous was twofold one, he

561
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 2: insisted that he'd be executed by firing squad, which Utah

562
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 2: was one of the few states that still had that

563
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 2: on the books, and that's how they executed him. And

564
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 2: then two by refusing to appeal his death penalty despite

565
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 2: the entire Apparently there's a lot of public sentiment against

566
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 2: commuting this guy's sentence, but he was like, no, I

567
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 2: want to go along with it, So he was. I

568
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 2: guess there was enough public attention on it that he

569
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 2: was given the special privilege of having friends and family visit.

570
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: And I guess Johnny Cash called up and sung to

571
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 2: him over the phone.

572
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was his uncle had snuck in Jack Daniels

573
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: and this guy. Somehow his defense attorney arranged for Johnny

574
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: Cash to call and Johnny Cash sang a Stonewall Jackson's

575
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: hall called don't be Angry. That apparently he kind of

576
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: dueted with Gary Gilmour over the phone man. That guy

577
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: was so cool, Johnny.

578
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, he had a real thing for prisons though, didn't he.

579
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sure, I mean he You know, he performed

580
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: in prisons very famously because he was in prison at

581
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: one point himself.

582
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and sometimes I mean he would go to the

583
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 2: trouble like if he was a little hard up, he'd

584
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 2: go to the mall and find that little room where

585
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: they keep shoplifters and perform for them once in a

586
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 2: while as well.

587
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: I know, you're kidding. He didn't get me this time.

588
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 2: I wasn't trying.

589
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: I was so close though.

590
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 2: No. Yeah, that Johnny Cash took it upon himself to

591
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 2: go sing for shoplifters at the mall when he couldn't

592
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 2: find a prison gig.

593
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds ridiculous when you say it like that.

594
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: Wow, I can really sell it.

595
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: Huh. Yeah, you're good at what you do. Let me

596
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: say that, thanks, Chuck. What else? James Edward Smith was

597
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: executed in nineteen ninety and requested voodoo dirt. It's called

598
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: Rakunda dirt, and they said dirt. Yeah, they said no,

599
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: you can't have that. He wanted to prevent his soul

600
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: from remaining on earth as a ghost. They said, no,

601
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: have yogurt instead, and he said, all right, well you

602
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: will be haunted by me then for three hundred years.

603
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 2: And he was apparently a voodoo priest. I saw a

604
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: self professed voodoo priest, so I don't know what that means,

605
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 2: but yeah, he was not very happy that they wouldn't

606
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 2: give him that.

607
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: Should we go through a few more of these.

608
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's one that we just could not do this

609
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 2: episode and not mentioned because it's one of the most

610
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 2: messed up things that we'll talk about today in a

611
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 2: podcast about messed up things. A guy named Ricky Ray

612
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 2: Rector who was executed under presidential candidate Bill Clinton's watch

613
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 2: when he was a governor of Arkansas, and Ricky Ray

614
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: Rector had always been a little bit cognitively challenged. He

615
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: went on a killing spree basically over four days, he

616
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 2: killed five people, just randomly in most cases, and then

617
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 2: before the cops could get to him, he tried to

618
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 2: end his own life by turning the gun on himself,

619
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 2: but he missed and he made himself like apparently he

620
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 2: then had the cognition or cognitive abilities of a kid

621
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: about the age of four, from that point on, and

622
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 2: that's the shape he was in when he went to trial.

623
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, lobotomized him basically, yeah, accidentally. Yeah.

624
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 2: So the advocates for him said, no, we don't execute

625
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: people who are cognitively challenged. If they can't understand what's

626
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 2: going on, why they're being killed, we don't kill them.

627
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 2: That's just what we do in the United States. And

628
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: Bill Clinton said no, we're going to do this anyway,

629
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 2: and they did, Chuck, They executed Ricky Ray Rector in

630
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two. And that's not the that's not the

631
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 2: thing about this story. There's something that's just about as

632
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 2: haunting as it can get.

633
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, because while he was eating the meal, there was

634
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: a pecan pie was part of that meal. He pushed

635
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: it aside and said, I want to save that for later.

636
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 2: That was the understanding of what was happening to him.

637
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 2: He knew he was going to get executed, but he

638
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 2: was saving the pcompie for afterward.

639
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

640
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: Isn't that nuts? Yeah, So that's Ricky Reer recordor what

641
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: about John Wayne.

642
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: Gacy Gaysey was a one time manager at Kentucky Fried Chicken,

643
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: So he got Kentucky Fried Chicken original recipe French fries.

644
00:34:58,080 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: He got some fried shrimp too, got a pound of

645
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: straw Berry's and some diet coke. I went through and

646
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: looked at a lot of other people in lists, and

647
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: one thing I found weirdly, And of course I'm sure

648
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: you could find it if you really really searched. But

649
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 1: I saw a lot of Burger King and Pizza Hut.

650
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 1: But I didn't see one McDonald's.

651
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 2: Oh weird.

652
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I don't know if it was just the

653
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: you know, the the twenty or thirty that you know,

654
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: I kind of scanned through on the internet, but a

655
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: lot of Pizza Hut, pizzas and Burger King cheeseburgers.

656
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 2: Probably because most prisons have a McDonald's in him and

657
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 2: we just on the outside don't know it, you know,

658
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 2: like a hospital of like a Chick fil a. Right,

659
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 2: So there's one more I think we should talk about

660
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 2: before we move on, if you don't mind.

661
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: Sure.

662
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 2: Philip ray workman, Okay, did you hear his case or

663
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 2: see his Yeah?

664
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: This is the vegetarian.

665
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, he his for his last meal. He wanted a

666
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 2: vegetarian pizza be delivered to any homeless person nearby the prison,

667
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 2: and the warden and the prison officials said, no, we

668
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 2: don't contribute to charity, so no, we're not going to

669
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 2: do that. And Philip ray Workman said, well, I'm not

670
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 2: going to eat anything then, but it's Tennessee, right, Yeah,

671
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 2: And so his story got out. Apparently between the time

672
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 2: he requested and was denied and the time he was executed,

673
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 2: it made it into the media what he'd done and

674
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: what the response had been, and apparently around the country

675
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 2: people on the day of his execution ordered vegetarian pizzas

676
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 2: and had them sent to homeless shelters all around Tennessee.

677
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: Yeah that's pretty neat. Yeah, I agree. Should we take

678
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: our second break? Sure? All right, let's take another break,

679
00:36:41,640 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: and we're gonna wrap it all up after this. So

680
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: we talked a little bit about booze and cigarettes. That

681
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: was a long tradition for you know, hundreds of years,

682
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: and then kind of went away basically when prison started

683
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: saying like, hey, you can't have cigarettes smoking his band

684
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: and booze is just not a good idea to let

685
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: people drink alcohol, and people still request it from time

686
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: to time. I think there was a guy in our

687
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: very own state of Georgian twenty fifteen who wanted a

688
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: six pack of beer and that was it, and they

689
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: said no and gave him a meal of fish and

690
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: grits and beans and coleslaw and cookies and fruit punch instead.

691
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 1: What about elsewhere around the world, and that limits it

692
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: just a handful of countries, because America is one of

693
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: just a few democratic, industrialized countries that still put people

694
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:07,919
Speaker 1: to death.

695
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, a few, meaning exclusively or specifically three. There's South Korea, Japan,

696
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 2: and the United States.

697
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: That's right.

698
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: And I don't know if this is better or worse.

699
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: But in Japan, if you're on death row, you don't

700
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 2: know the day you're going to be executed until the

701
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 2: day you're going to be executed. Which what would you want?

702
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: Jeez, I don't know.

703
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: I don't either answer that. I don't know. There's yeah,

704
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 2: I don't, I do not know. Imagine like if you

705
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 2: did existential trivia and that was a existential trivia question.

706
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,439
Speaker 1: I would want to know, actually you would, huh, because

707
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: otherwise I would just constantly be wondering when.

708
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if you know, then you're you're counting down

709
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 2: the days and do that. Okay, all right, I got

710
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: you good. I think it's good to know yourself like that. Yeah,

711
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 2: But so they don't know when they're going to be

712
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 2: exec but when they do, they can have whatever they

713
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 2: want to eat. Apparently they're very liberal with that that idea,

714
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 2: and that if they don't specify anything, they'll be given cigarettes,

715
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 2: drink which I take to mean booze, and cake, which

716
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 2: Japanese cake is delightful.

717
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. China is sort of all over the map, and

718
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: we probably don't even know really what happens to be

719
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: honest these days. But there are witnesses from like the

720
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: eighties that's say, like, hey, I saw a mass execution

721
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 1: where people were just chained to a post and given

722
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: a hard boiled egg. Other times bleak. Oh it's yeah,

723
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: as bleak as it gets. Other times, like there was

724
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: a soldier in nineteen eighty eighty five who was apparently

725
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: given a pretty good meal of like meat dumplings. There

726
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 1: are other reports of prisoners eating with their executioner, which

727
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: is not unique to China, that that was sort of

728
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: an old tradition back in the day as well in

729
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: different countries.

730
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, called Saint John's blessing.

731
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, and it just seems like there is no

732
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: hard and fast rule in China. It could either be

733
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: a very sort of lavish thing or almost nothing at all.

734
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just real quick before we move on that

735
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 2: Saint John's blessing, like it was a socially prescribed thing

736
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 2: where before you were executed, you drank with your executioner,

737
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 2: like the two of you hung out. Put yourself in

738
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 2: that situation. Imagine being on either side of that equation, Like,

739
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: how would you make it through that.

740
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: As the executioner or as.

741
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 2: The as the condemned.

742
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. That's tough stuff.

743
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 2: Sorry, I know I keep getting philosophical here.

744
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: I know I don't have answers for all these but you.

745
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 2: Are answering them quite well, if you ask me.

746
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. One thing I wondered was and I

747
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,240
Speaker 1: know the answer, so I actually don't wonder. But Timothy

748
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:02,320
Speaker 1: McVeigh wanted two pints of Ben and Jerry's Mint chocolate

749
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: chip and was given that. But you know, Ben and

750
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: Jerry's is a very sort of progressive lefty company, and

751
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure they didn't like that association.

752
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're very anti bombing.

753
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, i'm sure they're probably anti capital punishment,

754
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: but no, I don't know if they would want that

755
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: association of like being tied to a capital punishment.

756
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 2: Probably not. They probably don't bandy that about.

757
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: Well, there's nothing they can do about it, though, It's like,

758
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 1: could they protest that? I mean, I guess it could

759
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 1: protest it, but you can't. You can't say who can

760
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: can't eat your ice cream? So at the end of

761
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 1: the day that I'm sure they would have no leg

762
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 1: to stand on.

763
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 2: But also then you're denying this person their last thing.

764
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's Timothy McVeigh, but if it were somebody else,

765
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 2: did you want to be in that position? As the

766
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 2: company'd be like, no, you can't have that, sure, because

767
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: we don't agree with them killing you.

768
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure they just didn't like that pressure. Speaking

769
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 1: of press, Olivia had a few more little nuggets here

770
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: for us various sort of weird slash terrible things that

771
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: have happened over the years or interesting things. One of

772
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: them in nineteen eighty five, two weeks after South Carolina

773
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: executed their first prisoner in twenty two years, Pizza Hut

774
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: ran a commercial that showed again Pizza Hut, showing an

775
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 1: inmate ordering pizza for the last meal. This executed person

776
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: had requested pizza, and so they kind of tied it

777
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: back to that, and they got a lot of heat

778
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: for that, and they took the commercial down.

779
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 2: I think we talked about this in our Death Penalty episode, Yeah,

780
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 2: one of our Death Penalty episodes. There's a blog called

781
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 2: dead Man Eating that ran from two to twenty ten,

782
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 2: and it just tracked last meal requests, which is another thing,

783
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 2: like they're frequently requests. They don't necessarily say what the

784
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 2: person got. It's the request, that's the thing that's always

785
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: been published.

786
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:56,959
Speaker 1: Yeah.

787
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 2: And then Amnesty International ran an ad campaign that's just haunting.

788
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 2: It's images of the last meals of five different prisoners

789
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 2: who were executed and then found innocent.

790
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean that makes a statement for sure. There

791
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: was also a book in twenty eleven ISH from a

792
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: photographer named Jonathan cam Boris called The Last Meals Project,

793
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: and I don't think these were people who were proven innocent,

794
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 1: but he superimposed last meals on photographs of the executed prisoner,

795
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 1: So you know, another social statement for sure.

796
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember Chuck reading it. There was I think

797
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 2: a New Yorker article on Cameron Willingham. He had a

798
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 2: third name in there. Somewhere, but he was executed and

799
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,479
Speaker 2: they are pretty sure he was innocent, not a great guy,

800
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 2: but probably did not start the fire that killed his family,

801
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 2: but was executed anyway. And I remember there was a

802
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 2: quote in there that always stuck with me. One of

803
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court justices said that if there was ever

804
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 2: clear evidence that an innocent person had been executed wrongly,

805
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 2: that that would cause a constitutional spasm that would be

806
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 2: really tough to require from him and probably immediately lead

807
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 2: to the cessation of the death penalty. And when you

808
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 2: stop and think about that Amnesty International ad campaign where

809
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 2: they've got five people whose last meals they're showing, who

810
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 2: were later found to be innocent, Like we now know

811
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,280
Speaker 2: five people at least have been executed and then later

812
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 2: found to be innocent, and yet we still have the

813
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 2: death penalty. It's not even a topic of conversation that

814
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 2: just that sticks out to me because that quote always

815
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 2: suck to me. It suck with me, and it's just

816
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,919
Speaker 2: I don't know. It was just worth mentioning. And also

817
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 2: it was worth mentioning because that article on Cameron Willingham

818
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 2: was just insanely good because not only is it about

819
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 2: his case and also calls out how Arson is just

820
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: like Arson investigation is just junk science and people are

821
00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 2: executed based on that evidence. Huh, yeah, it's good. I

822
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 2: can't remember what it's called. Just look up New York

823
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 2: and Cameron Willingham, I can't remember his middle name.

824
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 1: Have we done one on Arson, I don't know. I

825
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: don't think we have. That would be interesting because I

826
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,280
Speaker 1: always wonder how they find the source of those fires.

827
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 2: I remember talking about Arson being junk science before, so

828
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 2: we've talked about something supper club fire. Maybe no, it

829
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 2: was long before that. No, okay, you got anything else.

830
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 1: I got nothing else. I mean, you know, this was

831
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 1: dark for sure, but we hope it was in the

832
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: good taste in which it was intended. Yeah, there are

833
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:41,359
Speaker 1: also articles out there that are a little more fun

834
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 1: to read about people's last meals, non executed, but people

835
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: who knew, you know, famous people who knew they were

836
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: on the way out, and like, what's the very most

837
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,720
Speaker 1: special thing that they wanted to eat? Like Julia Child

838
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: having French onion soup. Stuff like that.

839
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:57,800
Speaker 2: Oh man, a good French onion soup.

840
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe go read those instead would be my recommendation.

841
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 2: You go, well, since Chuck made a great recommendation everybody.

842
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 2: That means it's sound for listener. Maw.

843
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this cussing dentist because you know I

844
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: talked about my doctor cursing and how much I enjoyed that,

845
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 1: and so this guy wrote in he said, hey, guys,

846
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: I want to tell you about my cussing dentists. The

847
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: first time I went to this guy's practice, I hadn't

848
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: been in years, and the hyghgenis brings me in for

849
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: X rays in a cleaning and eventually she tells me

850
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: she's going to go grab the dentist sad cavities. I'm

851
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: in the dental chair, the lights on my face. I

852
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: hear footsteps behind me, and an upside down mask disembodied

853
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 1: head slowly comes into my field of vision. He glances

854
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: up to my X rays and looks back down. No introductions,

855
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 1: no anything, and just says, hmm, open up, so open

856
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,919
Speaker 1: my mouth. He starts poking around with a little mirror tool.

857
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: I'm panicking about that. Hmm what did he see in

858
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: those X rays? Is something wrong? My anxiety is growing

859
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,280
Speaker 1: and he's taking a long looking around my mouth. Finally

860
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: he says, uh, yeah, We're gonna have to pull all

861
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: of these effing things out. There was a comedic beat,

862
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: and then he pulled his mask down, revealing a sly,

863
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: goofy grin. I laughed so hard and nearly choked, and

864
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: then he finally introduced himself as the dentist. I'm not

865
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: sure how he picked up on my hey it's okay

866
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: to swear around me a vibe so quickly, or if

867
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: that's just how he greets all of his thirty somethings

868
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: male patients, but it was the best first impression I

869
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 1: ever had with any medical professional, and I recommended him

870
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: to literally everyone I know. That's my story. Thanks for

871
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 1: the show. You guys are both true legends and stuff

872
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:44,720
Speaker 1: you should know is my all time favorite card. Listen

873
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 1: that is Ryan and Maine and oh Man, Ryan, I

874
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: wish you had permission to out this dentist because I

875
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: would go to Maine to get to go see this dentist.

876
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 1: What a great sense of humor. Gonna have to pull

877
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:58,399
Speaker 1: all these effing things out?

878
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,280
Speaker 2: Who who could it be? Is it like John c Riley,

879
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 2: d MD, or the guy who played He Had No

880
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 2: the guy who played j Peterman on Seinfeld. I could

881
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 2: see him.

882
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: That'd be great. Sure, yeah, I love that.

883
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 2: Let's go with that guy then, all right, okay, Oh,

884
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 2: and also just want to give a quick update to everybody.

885
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 2: Remember Corey's choice in charge.

886
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we we influenced Spotify.

887
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so remember Corey wrote in and said that Millie

888
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 2: Vanilli and what was the other.

889
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: One, don't remember the initial one.

890
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 2: I don't remember either, but they were two very disparate oh,

891
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 2: owner of a Lonely Heart. They both showed up in

892
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 2: Spotify search together and he said it was probably because

893
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 2: you guys. So let's do a test, and we tested

894
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 2: Black Sabbaths, war Pigs and Barry Manilow's even Now, And

895
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 2: in short order, people started writing in with screencaps of

896
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 2: their Spotify searches, where if you searched Barry Manilow, Warpigs

897
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 2: was the second thing that came up you searched war Pigs,

898
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 2: Harry Mandela was between three and five, and that was

899
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 2: clearly our influence. So that's pretty awesome.

900
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, I mean, how do we use

901
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: this power?

902
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,240
Speaker 2: I don't know. We'll figure it out, but yeah, for good, agreed,

903
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 2: we should probably do it for good?

904
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:16,399
Speaker 1: All right?

905
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, if you want to get in touch with

906
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,359
Speaker 2: us like Ryan Ryan did, you can send us an

907
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:29,319
Speaker 2: email to Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

908
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

909
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

910
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.