WEBVTT - Crypto Money Goes to Washington 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:06.200 I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News, 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:10.160 And this is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I Heart podcast. 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:19.400 It's Thursday, June. It might feel like there's always some 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:22.320 kind of election happening in the US, and that's because 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.360 there is. State and local elections can happen every day, 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:29.600 while congressional midterms occur every other year, including this one. 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:34.040 These elections allow US voters to decide who will represent them, 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:38.080 and they really matter. And because they really matter, crypto 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.600 executives are spending significant amounts of money to try to 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:46.639 influence them. In two for the very first time, political 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:50.479 spending by major figures in the crypto industry eclipsed the 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:54.279 dollars being spent by traditional donors in big tech and 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:58.680 big pharma. Today, Bloomberg reporter Alison verse Brill joins me 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:01.600 to share her reporting and why crypto is emerging as 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:09.520 a significant financial force in US politics. Alison, thank you 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.320 as always for being a guest on the show. Thanks 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:15.480 for having me. US political lobbying a bit of a 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:20.760 hot topic, especially right now. Lots of people who you know, 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:24.080 spend lots of time writing checks to appropriate people or 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.480 who they hope are the appropriate people to try to, 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:31.520 if not control the outcome of a particular policy or 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:34.679 piece of legislation, at least influence it in their favor. 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.880 When we talk about US political lobbying, who are some 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:42.240 of the biggest players historically and why is this such 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:46.720 a an active subsector of politics as it were? You know, 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:48.920 when you talk about labbing, I think I think everyone 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:53.120 kind of thinks of of big pharma and tech companies 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:56.880 and the defense industry, private equity, um, those are some 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:00.160 of the ones that are usually the biggest spenders, and 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.560 so you know, I think they're good ones to compare to. 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:05.720 If you're if you're talking about whether or not a 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.720 new industry like crypto is making a difference. So is 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.400 crypto making a difference? What happened this yere so this 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:16.440 year so far crypto industry is bypassing big tech, big pharma, defense. 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.240 The only one that it is lagging behind, and quite 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:23.120 significantly lacking behind, is private equity and other investment firms 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:26.080 big wool Streets, Big Wall Street. Yes, which maybe not 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:31.320 so surprising, but so through all the way through one 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.480 and the first three months of this year, the crypto 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:38.720 industry gave more than twenty six million dollars. And to 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:40.800 give you a sense of that comparing to some of 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:44.200 these other industries. Um, that compares to the twenty million 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:48.400 in contributions from tech firms such as Alphabet, Google, Amazon, 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:52.680 seven million from drugmakers, and eighteen point six million from 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.480 defense contractors. Like I said, I mean, private equity and 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:59.839 investment firms still a good deal higher than that, though 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:04.280 they gave nearly seventy six million dollars over that period. Um. 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:06.440 But I think you can still draw from this that 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:09.880 crypto is becoming a major player at least in and 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:13.200 giving money to uh these candidates, I mean, especially in 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.360 the short amount of time, right Like that's like something 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:19.600 like a five thousand percent increase compared with the same 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.839 period a year ago. Like what's driving this? So I 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.200 think really, I mean, so I've talked to some folks 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:29.320 who have said, and this might actually be a record 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:31.560 year for crypto giving. And there are a couple of 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.760 reasons for that. Um. You know, the crypto industry is 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.240 facing a lot of scrutiny right now from Washington, from 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:42.040 you know, lawmakers, from regulators, so they have an interest 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:46.680 in trying to do some political giving maybe behind themselves 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.480 some good will and get some regulations that they feel 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:53.120 like they can they can live with. But mechanically or practically, 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.360 what are these folks hoping to achieve? Like goodwill sounds great, 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:58.640 but you can't really like put that on a billboard necessarily, 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.320 Like what what would success look like for them? So, 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.240 you know, I've talked to someone who works in campaigns 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:06.800 and he and you know, he gave kind of a 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:09.880 rundown of what we're seeing so far in the crypto industry. 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:12.960 And so we do have a lot of crypto firms 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:17.120 trying to you know, give money to candidates, some relatively 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:22.880 unknown candidates and having them really push pro crypto policy 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.640 during their races. And actually, this person who worked on 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:28.960 campaigns was saying that may not be the most effective 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.880 strategy because a lot of other entrenched industries they kind 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:34.920 of just give the money and then let the super 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:37.760 pack or let the candidate decide how best to use 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:40.800 it to increase their odds of winning. So the hen 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:45.120 your money is actually uh going somewhere. And so so, Allison, 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.440 when you say a pack, you know that's a political 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.280 action committee. It's sort of a vehicle through which people 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:53.920 can funnel money for political spending. Yes, that's correct. So 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:55.600 the crypto folks are coming in and be like, do 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:58.760 this specific thing. Here's five million dollars. Yes, you see, 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.840 you see, you see a decent amount of that happening. 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.000 But I think it's worth noting that that the biggest 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.080 donor from the industry so far, Sam Bankman Freed of 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:10.760 of the Crypto Exchange FTX. He's been giving by far 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.200 the most amount of money, and he's kind of taken 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.680 a different tactic. His focus has been so far on 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:21.400 candidates with you know, policies for preparing for the next pandemic, 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:23.640 which he's told us is where it told me that 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:26.760 he feels like that's inevitable and that we didn't do 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:31.080 a very good job responding to COVID nineteen. So that's 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:34.200 kind of the policy that he's most focused on. This week, 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.120 Bloomberg is taking a deeper look at the hunger crisis 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:40.640 developing across the globe. The pandemic has upended food supply 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:44.960 chains and eroded consumer purchasing power. With Sam Bankman Freed 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.880 his big he's been donating a lot through Superpack. The 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:52.359 pack gave its biggest contribution thus far to a candidate 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:57.320 in Oregon, over eleven million dollars. I'm running for Congress 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:03.520 because I want every Oregonian to have prosperity, security, and stability. 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:08.240 And stability means protection from foreseeable, preventable disasters such as 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.280 pandemics and to some extent the inflation and all the 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:15.800 effects that have come from the pandemic itself. And that 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:19.560 did not work. Um. His name was Carrick Flynn, and 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.200 he and he was a Democrat and a political newcomer, 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:25.960 and he ended up losing that race. I think all 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.560 of this is showing that the crypto industry, while giving 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:30.440 a lot of money, still has a lot to learn 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:34.520 about the ins and outs of politics and the best way, 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:36.560 you know, to get the biggest bang for your book, 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:43.800 if you will. We're obviously not fully into the mid terms. 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.280 There are many more races to run. Where else is 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.760 there crypto money slushing around? So you know, there is 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.680 a lot of crypto money as well, um slashing around 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:56.560 lobbying on Capitol Hill, people beefing up their their firms 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:02.320 to go and you know, talk to lawmakers, maybe sway 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.560 policy on the legislation that we're seeing some of the 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:09.480 regulation that we're you know, potentially may see from out 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.360 of these agencies. So a lot of money also being 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:16.320 spent on lobbying in addition to these political contributions. You've 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.280 written as well with some other colleagues of ours, a 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:23.800 bloomberg about state level lobbying, where you know, folks who 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:26.239 are say, based in New York want to make sure 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:29.600 that New York specific regulations apply to them in ways 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:33.000 that they find amenable. Where do these lines kind of blur, 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:35.480 Like when does something stop being kind of state specific 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.320 and get more national or does national also help you 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.040 at the state level. So it's interesting, I mean, I 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.240 think obviously places like New York have have gotten a 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.240 lot of attention with their bit license and some of 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:49.560 the regulation that they have in place. Yesterday, the state's 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:54.360 top financial regulator unveiled the bit license. These are regulations 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:59.040 designed to protect consumers and improve cybersecurity practices for the 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:03.480 digital currency, and folks will say that, you know, the 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.960 regulation at the state level could potentially influence what the 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.880 federal government does. Um, so you might see some blending 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:12.920 of the lines in that sense. I think for a 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:16.280 lot of these big players, they are focusing primarily on 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:20.000 who gets into these federal seats, so US House Reps, 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:24.120 U S senators will probably see a lot of similar 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.480 trends when the presidential race comes back around. And I 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:30.040 think that's because right now there is so much action 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:34.200 at the federal level. We're seeing the legislation from Senators 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:37.440 Lemis and Jilla Brand to regulate the industry. We're expecting 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:40.280 a lot more bills later in this year. Senators have 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:45.640 talked about being potentially optimistic about stable coin legislation before 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.000 the end of this year. I will be stunned. Called. Yeah, 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:51.560 call me a skeptic on it, but you know, I 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:55.920 I've been surprised before by Congress, So you know, I 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:58.960 think we are seeing a lot of the big names 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:04.240 giving a lot on the federal side of things. We'll 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:07.040 be right back with more from Bloomberg Reports Alison verse 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:19.160 Bill on crypto's biggest political contributors. Is there anything about 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.760 any of this that has surprised you? I mean, I 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:25.080 do think the as you delicately put it, the relative 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:27.920 inexperience of some of these folks as it relates to 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:30.560 how politics is really really works. In his mean, but 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.240 is there anything else that you have seen, They're like, 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:37.680 that's weird. I think it's really interesting how much spending 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:42.160 we're seeing in the primaries, right, because it's it's an 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:45.080 interesting strategy. I feel like there are a good number 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:46.800 of donors who say, you know what, I'll wait till 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:50.079 the general election. I'll wait to see when I have 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.440 a better chance of putting my money towards someone who 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:56.400 will actually end up being in one of these seats. 0:09:57.200 --> 0:09:59.880 And you know, we I actually did ask Sam bing 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:01.959 and Freed about this why he has put so much 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:05.920 money into primary races, and his response was that he 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:09.320 felt if you were very issue focused, like he says 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:13.600 he is, with this pandemic preparedness sort of focus, that 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.640 he thinks the primaries are important and that the issues 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.959 that people are focused on can be very different when 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:24.160 you're at that level. I mean, he's not wrong from 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:26.800 the psychology of the primary votes, like if if you 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:31.360 are sufficiently motivated to register early, jump through the additional 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.200 sets of hoops about you know, showing up at the 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.240 right place at the right time, you tend to be 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.920 a certain kind of highly motivated. It is your oriented 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:40.600 person for sure, right, And and he was making the 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.840 case that if you are more focused on just having 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:46.920 either a Democrat or a Republican win than maybe your 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.240 maybe your strategy is different, Maybe your strategy is to 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.360 wait till the general election. So I think that's an 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.400 interesting point out of all of this, is that this 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.720 is a lot of money and we haven't even gotten 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:01.160 to the general's yet. While we shall, the crypto prices 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.480 allow folks to keep spending this kind of money. Yes, 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.120 that was also a point that someone raised me, was 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:11.920 whether or not we would continue seeing the level of spending. 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:14.880 I will say it's interesting though. I was talking to 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.200 someone who was like, well, I think I think this 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:21.239 could make a difference for the millionaires who are donating 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:24.640 to the to the mid terms. But I was saying, 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.680 you know, for the billionaires, people like Sam Bingman Freed, 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.160 probably not going to make that much of a difference, 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:33.760 And I did, the real money will be fine, right 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.679 and I and I actually talked to the spokesman for 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:39.920 his for the superpack that he's put his most of 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:44.360 his money through protect our Future, and I asked, you know, 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.760 have you had conversations with Sam Bingman Freed where the 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:52.000 strategy has changed at all just because the market's gone down. 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:54.560 You know, he's lost some of his wealth. And the 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:58.959 spokesperson basically said that has not entered into our conversations 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.880 of yet, and that was after the terror collapse. Now 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.200 I haven't had a chance to circle back since. Uh. 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.600 The recent activities we're seeing in the market, it seems like, 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:10.400 at least for these really big spenders, that we might 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:16.200 not see too much of a difference. Have any of 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:18.560 the folks who were spending all this money lobbying had 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:22.480 any successes? So I think, well, when it comes to 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:25.880 the political spending, if you look at the uh Sam 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.600 Bateman Freed's donations, yes, the biggest contribution that was made 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:34.080 through his superpack um was unsuccessful, but there were a 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.640 lot of candidates that the pack donated to that did win. 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.880 So you know, they say they're changing, they change the 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.040 strategy going forward, you focus on those folks that w 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:47.240 that have one and you know, so maybe some potential 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.520 success is there. And they've also said they've learned some 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.640 lessons about kind of local dynamics and some of these 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:56.600 states that that maybe they didn't know before. On the 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:01.280 lobbying side, I will say, you know, we we saw 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:05.680 most of the uptick and lobbying after the Infrastructure Bill 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:09.760 was introduced last year, the infrastructure Bill that would create 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.600 millions of jobs, rebuilding the arteries of our economy, and 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.680 they're just to pose the Infrastructure Bill which had crypto 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:20.360 elements in it. Yes, so the Infrastructure Bill would have 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:25.680 new reporting requirements for brokers, so exchanges like coin base 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:29.080 and you know, even maybe some DeFi exchanges. It's kind 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:33.360 of unclear. And so basically this bill there was a 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.400 big outcry after it was introduced among the industry players 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.760 because they said that it was the language was way 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.560 too broad. It defined brokers in such a way that 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:47.480 they said, oh, this could pool in crypto minors, crypto stakers, 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.560 you know, folks who who validate transactions on the blockchain, 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:53.559 and um they also said said a could pool and 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.040 software developers. And so there was a really big heavy 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.640 push from the industry to try to get this this 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.960 lane it's rewritten, and what I will say is it 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:07.200 was not successful. But in the short period of time 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:11.160 where the lobbying happened, they made much more of an 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:13.440 impact than maybe you would have thought, Like it got 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.960 very very close to passing and basically didn't get into 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:19.960 the final version of the bill on a technicality where 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:25.000 a senator had raised objections about unrelated military spending um 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.360 and so and so, and it almost got through on 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:31.680 unanimous consent. So every senator agreeing that there should be 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:33.720 a change in this bill. I think that is pretty 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:38.880 significant for an industry that did very little lobbying before this. UH, 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:42.200 this issue was came to the forefront um and since 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:44.520 then we've just continued to see more and more spending 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.240 and you've seen that issue is has continued to be 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.680 one that some Senators and House reps have continued to 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:54.560 take on. A change to that provision is included in 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.800 the bill that Senators Lummis and jilla Brand introduced in 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:02.120 the Senate. We also saw Treasury put a letter out 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.640 saying that in their regulations they don't intend to sweep in, 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.000 you know, these other entities that the industry was so 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.200 worried about, which is language that may not have existed 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:16.160 had folks not pushed against it in the previous infrastructure bill. Oh, 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:20.080 absolutely not. I mean, I think I think the government's 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:24.480 the government's desire is always for something to be as 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:28.200 broad as possible to give them kind of the biggest UH. 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.480 The biggest stick, if you will, in sort of enforcing 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.920 what they want to do. And so I think it's 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:38.520 pretty significant that we see the administration putting this let like, 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.600 you know, clearly senators were also pushing on them to 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.400 to provide some clarification. So I think it's pretty significant 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:46.960 that we saw this letter and we saw this kind 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.440 of you know, walk back um, even though the legislation 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.200 may be broad enough for them to take a very 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:57.600 sweeping approach. Thank you, Allison. You can find more of 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.440 her reporting on the Bloomberg terminal on bloom Berg dot 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:04.000 com or follow her on Twitter. She's Ali ver Sprill. 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:08.040 On the next episode of Bloomberg Crypto, one of the 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:12.360 most closely watched fights in crypto. Might sound a little obscure, 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.120 but it's really important. It pits a company called Gray 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:19.600 Scale Investments against the U S Securities and Exchange Commission, 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:23.280 a crucial regulator in the space, and it involves so 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:27.920 called exchange traded funds, an extremely popular type of investment vehicle, 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.680 and especially at the center of it all is Bitcoin, 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:36.000 the largest and most liquid of the cryptos Bloomberg reports are. 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.160 Kasey Greifeld joined me to unravel why this fight is 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:45.920 so important to the future of crypto markets. I'm Stacy 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:49.520 Marie Ishmael, and this is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:52.520 from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For more shows from 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.920 I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:59.400 or wherever you get your podcasts. Email your questions, comments, 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.560 or suggestion for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net, 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:08.000 and you'll find us on Twitter at Crypto. The supervising 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.720 producer of this episode is Vicky very Galina. Associate producer 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:15.960 is zan Ab Sudiki. Associate producer is Moses on Desta 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:19.560 wonder At is our engineer. Original music by Leo Sidron. 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.240 Bloomberg's head of podcasts is Francesca Levi.