1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to Casual Friday. 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry. I'm Tracy P. Wilson. So Tracy, I 4 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: always feel spoiled when I get to talk to people 5 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: from the History Center because I of that whole staff. 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: UM and Sheffield and Michael were both super fun to 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: talk to. You. It was interesting because Sheffield, you know, 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: really was so frank with me about you know, the 9 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: hardest parts of this whole thing, which for the History 10 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: Center are are financial. You know, this whole thing happened 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: when places like the History Center and other museums like 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: right in the window where they're normally booking a wedding 13 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: every weekend or a special event every weekend, and none 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: of those things can happen. And you know, he mentioned 15 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: also that they're having to move around their fundraising gala 16 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: and hope only it will still happen. And that's one 17 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: of those things that Um I hadn't given a whole 18 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: lot of thought. There are so many things that we 19 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,119 Speaker 1: have all been juggling in our brains when we were 20 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: just dealing with coronavirus and now with all of the 21 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:20,479 Speaker 1: protests and upheaval and fights for equality that are going 22 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 1: on as a consequence of George Floyd's murder and Brianna's murder. 23 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: Um that it's hard to keep in mind all of 24 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: the facets of these things, and so it just made 25 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: me think about my role and what I can do 26 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: to make sure like that I am prioritizing, you know, 27 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: donations to museums that I would normally be donating to anyway, 28 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: but like, this is not a year where I can go, oh, 29 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: I forgot that envelope and didn't get it done or whatever. Yeah, 30 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: especially when it is places like I really love the 31 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: History Center because their mission is so much about being 32 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: for everyone to connect to the community and history and 33 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: in our our city and what it has been through 34 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: and what it goes through, and what all of this 35 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: means to each of us, both as a group and individually. 36 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: So if you similarly have a museum or a history 37 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: center or some other facility in your town that you 38 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: really love and you have the means obviously, Um, I 39 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: know this has been a financially hard time for a 40 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: lot of people, but if you can, you know, think 41 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,399 Speaker 1: about those places too when you're when you're allocating your 42 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: funds that you would normally give to charity in any 43 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: given year. But I liked making sure that all of 44 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: the animals are taken care of History Center, because I 45 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: really was. He mentioned it before I even brought it 46 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: up to him, but I was, like the goats and 47 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: the sheep um and I'm glad they had a very 48 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,839 Speaker 1: very carefully developed system to make sure all of those 49 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: animals were cared for while humans did not come in 50 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: contact with one another, which is pretty cool. Uh. And 51 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,040 Speaker 1: then Michael's insights about just how what we see is 52 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: mundane will become very very important pieces of this story 53 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: in the future. Once again, it gives you that moment 54 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: to reflect on our own lives and what we value, 55 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,119 Speaker 1: what we think of as valuable, and what we don't 56 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: think of as valuable, because, as he mentioned, artifacts from 57 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: and that pandemic are hard to come by because people 58 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: thought of them as disposable. They weren't thinking about them 59 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: as historically significant. So it's it's an important thing. I 60 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: think that they're making people think about the fact, like, no, 61 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: like those weird hand sanitizer bottles, those are historically significant 62 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: because it was a defining element of this time of 63 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: our lives. It makes me look at everything I touch 64 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: in a new way. Now, is this diet coke bottle 65 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: historically significant? Is this sneaker historically significant? Uh? Yeah, um 66 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: It we alluded to this a little bit, um, and 67 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: we have alluded to it a little in other episodes, 68 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: But like, it feels kind of weird to still be 69 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: talking about the pandemic when, um, like the news cycle 70 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: has moved on and people's attention has moved on two 71 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: the social justice and rout and racism and protests and 72 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: all of that, And I am starting to see, um, 73 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: maybe not to the same extent as has been the 74 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: case with the pandemic, but starting to see efforts to 75 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: do things like collect the protests signs um and collect 76 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: the flyers that people are distributing, and like that, collecting 77 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: objects that are related to the protests of being going on, 78 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: because it's clear that this also is a historical moment 79 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: happening at the same time as the pandemic that's still ongoing, 80 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: even though it really feels like a lot of people 81 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: have mentally moved on from it. Yeah, I mean, you know, 82 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: there are plenty of places where numbers are going back up, 83 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: so everyone continue to stay safe. You. I'm glad you 84 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: brought that up, because it's one of the things I 85 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,239 Speaker 1: want to Um. I mean, I'm confident the History Center 86 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: is doing something similar with that. They posted a little 87 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: a short blog about it and and their thoughts and 88 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: kind of the official statement about what's going on, but 89 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: it didn't detail whether or not they're doing how they're 90 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: handling collecting artifacts. But I'm sure they are because there 91 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: they are so aware of of big events in our 92 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: our evolving history that they are usually pretty on top 93 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: of making sure that they collect such things. So I'm 94 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: curious what they are amassing in their collections, and we'll 95 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: find out eventually, I imagine. So this week we talked 96 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: about James Baldwin. Indeed we did. I don't often get 97 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: to the end of writing an episode and feel like 98 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: I still don't know if I did this person justice. 99 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: But I feel that way about James Baldwin. Um. I 100 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: think that's valid. I mean, he was a lot of 101 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: person and a prolific writer, and it's hard to encapsulate that. Yeah. Yeah, Um. 102 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: As as I was working on this, I did a 103 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: thing that I do sometimes, which is like look at 104 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: the library waitlists for things, um because as when I 105 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: learned to check things out from libraries digitally, that was 106 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: incredibly revolutionary to my ability to get books more often. 107 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: And then especially with the pandemic where the physical library 108 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: locations um as of when we're recording this in Massachusetts 109 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: are still closed and it was like fire next time, 110 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: twenty two week waiting list. So I am glad there 111 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: are so many people that are um focused on checking 112 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: out and then hopefully also reading and engaging with and 113 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: uh and experiencing these works and thinking about them. Um. 114 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: I saw a tweet from a library somewhere that was like, 115 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: just remember, checking it out is just the first step, right, Yeah, 116 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: I mean it's in some ways it's cool to me, 117 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: and in other ways it's heartbreaking to me that the 118 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: stuff he was writing decades ago is still provocative and 119 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: thought provoking now, Like you would hope that we would 120 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: have moved further in terms of development as a society, 121 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: but have not, and we need his words again desperately. Well, 122 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: And it's like the conversation with with Robert F. Kennedy, 123 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: like that exact conversation is just playing out still again 124 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: and again and again among uh, you know, among particularly um, 125 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: black people, but also other like disabled people and UM 126 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: and indigenous people like trying to explain what they are 127 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: actually facing in their lives and how systemic it is 128 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: and how huge it is. UM, and then the people 129 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: on the receiving end who were coming from a more 130 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: privileged place that are not personally experiencing all those things 131 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: being like, but my ancestors were from Ireland, like, yeah, 132 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: it's just it's just not the same thing, and and 133 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: so yeah, it's it's reading about that being like the 134 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: very very similar conversation to conversations that are still happening 135 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: over and over and over everywhere today. Well, frustrating it is. 136 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: I will make the confession that we stopped a lot 137 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: because I cried throughout this whole episode. Well and I, UM, 138 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: often when I'm working on on episodes, I will have 139 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: a sense of what's going to feel really emotional to 140 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: one or both of us and UM, and this was 141 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: not one where I, for whatever reason predicted, uh, the 142 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: emotional response component. Yeah, I mean he's UM, he's he's 143 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: just one of those people for me. If if you 144 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: are not really familiar with James Baldwin and you just 145 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: want to kind of get a sense of it. Um. 146 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: There is a video of him on YouTube on The 147 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: Dick Cavett Show where Dick Cavitt brings out a guy 148 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: who I confess I don't know who he is, but 149 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: like a white philosopher um to kind of argue with 150 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: James Baldwin, and he just lays out in very clear, 151 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: specific but also accessible terminology like what it means to 152 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: be a black man in America and what he's talking about. 153 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 1: And I've seen that video float around periodically, especially over 154 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: the last a few weeks, as I mean a few 155 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: weeks as of win. This episode is coming out in 156 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: response to the to the widespread demonstrations that have been 157 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 1: taking place all around the United States. So yeah, that's like, uh, 158 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: if you need kind of an introduction to what James 159 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: Baldwin was was about, aside from what we just talked 160 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: about this week for thirty minutes, that is one place 161 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: to get a glimpse of it. There is also a 162 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: really amazing video that also floats around a bit um 163 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: that is James Baldwin's debate speech against William F. Buckley 164 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: and nineties. I didn't even put that in the episode. 165 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: Why didn't I? I I don't know um, And it's interesting. 166 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: I don't remember the circumstances. I know I saw that 167 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: for some reason when I was a kid, because there 168 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: was one line from it that I misquoted slightly for years. Um. 169 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 1: And then in there was a person that transcribed the 170 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: whole thing, and it also started circulating again and I 171 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: was able to get it right, and it was just 172 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:32,119 Speaker 1: it's It's one of dozens of really you know, just poignant, 173 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: straightforward commentaries on what it is to grow up black 174 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: in America. But the thing that got me, and I 175 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: may or may not cried trying to say this quote, um, 176 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: is him talking about the realization that you can love 177 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: the United States and it doesn't love you back. Oh yeah, Um, 178 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: I won't even do the quote. Maybe I'll do the quote. 179 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: I will try to do the quote. He says, it 180 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: comes as a great shock around the age of five, 181 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: six or seven to discover that the flag two you 182 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: have pledged allegiance along with everybody else, has not pledged 183 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: allegiance to you. And like, to me, that was one 184 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: of those things that when I heard it as a kid, 185 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: it was like a slap in the face of like, 186 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: what do you mean? Like we all stand here and 187 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: do this. It's for all of us, and it was 188 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: not for all of us. And that's the first time 189 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: I really remember thinking about that issue. Yeah. Yeah. So 190 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: there's just a wealth of material by James Baldwin if 191 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: you are interested in learning more, and also a wealth 192 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: of material about James Baldwin, like there are multiple biographies 193 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: and articles and um the like I said in the 194 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: in the episode UM, the Tony Morrison's tribute to him 195 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: is gorgeous. I mean, other other things that were printed 196 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 1: from um eulogies and addresses at his funeral are are 197 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: really beautiful, but that one in particular struck me a lot. Um. So, 198 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: if you'd like to send us a note about anything, 199 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: where it history podcast that I heart radio dot com. 200 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 1: We're all over social media I miss in History, and 201 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: you can subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts, the 202 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: I heart radio app, anywhere else to get your podcasts. 203 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: Stuff you missed in History Class is a production of 204 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, 205 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 206 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.