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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben.

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Speaker 4: We're joined with our super producer Ball mission controlled decands.

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Speaker 4: Most importantly, you are here, and that makes this the

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Speaker 4: stuff they don't want you to know. Brought to you

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Speaker 4: by four people who have never been to Thailand. Tonight's

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Speaker 4: tale is a strange one and may not be appropriate

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Speaker 4: for all audiences due to the at times graphic descriptions

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Speaker 4: of violence involved. Earlier in Strange News, we shared an

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Speaker 4: ongoing story that rocked the nation of Thailand to the core.

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Speaker 4: We're returning to this tale tonight. Here are the facts.

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Speaker 2: How do you know I haven't been to Thailand.

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Speaker 3: I asked you a few years back to something change.

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Speaker 2: He's just presumptive of you, sir, okay.

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Speaker 4: All right, Well, not to put you in a box, Matt.

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Speaker 4: So three people who have not been to Thailand and

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Speaker 4: one person who does.

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Speaker 3: Either confirm or can I right, Yeah, I've been there

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Speaker 3: in my mind and in my heart. I really like

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Speaker 3: Thai food. That doesn't count. No, I have not been

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Speaker 3: to Thailand, Ben, I can confirm, Matt, that's up to you.

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Speaker 3: Do what you will.

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Speaker 2: You're You're not the only mysterious one over here.

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Speaker 3: Ben, I've never been to Thailand.

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Speaker 4: That that is definitely, that's definitely on record, and everybody,

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Speaker 4: everybody is a mystery, right.

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Speaker 3: We can tay multitudes.

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Speaker 4: As Whitman said, speaking of multitudes, there are gonna be

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Speaker 4: a lot of Thai names and places in tonight's show.

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Speaker 4: We are not native speakers. Maybe that's the first thing,

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Speaker 4: so please bear with us. But we can't say, like

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Speaker 4: any country, Thailand's home to stunning beauty, innovation, and some

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Speaker 4: very troubling imperfections. Have you guys heard you know one

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Speaker 4: of the one of the monikers of Thailand is the

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Speaker 4: land of smiles.

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Speaker 3: I have not heard that, But I'm a big fan

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Speaker 3: of the history of Thai like electronic music and like

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Speaker 3: disco and stuff. You know that band Krang Been. They

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Speaker 3: are not native Thai individuals, but they take a lot

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Speaker 3: of influence from that sound. If you're into that. There's

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Speaker 3: some really cool deep cut kind of records you can

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Speaker 3: find from Thai artists from the sixties and seventies really cool,

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Speaker 3: kind of psychedelic, jazzy sort of dance music. Pretty cool stuff.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been getting really into Turkish psychedelic music from

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Speaker 4: the same time period too, But yeah, krongben is perfect.

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Speaker 4: It's nice writing studying music. It's very low, fine and chill,

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Speaker 4: and krongbin is a Thai phrase or Thai word. But

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Speaker 4: I think for a lot of folks who haven't been

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Speaker 4: to Thailand, it's easy to forget that, like any other country,

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Speaker 4: there's a lot more at play beneath the surface.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: It is a different culture, it is a different part

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Speaker 4: of the world. We're talking about this a little bit

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Speaker 4: off air. Their government is extremely different from the West,

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Speaker 4: especially in their practice of helping with the French pronunciation

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Speaker 4: here the Les mageste or Les majeste the rights of

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Speaker 4: the king.

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Speaker 3: Gessie for a silent s there. But that's my only critique.

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Speaker 3: I think the rest was perfect, But who's to say.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure I think you nailed it. So what

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Speaker 3: is this idea? Right?

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Speaker 4: It's like, if you in any way are seen defaming

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Speaker 4: or insulting or threatening the monarchy, you can be locked

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Speaker 4: up in jail for three to fifteen years.

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Speaker 3: Jeez, it's not very smiley behavior. That's the pretty frowning

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Speaker 3: stuff right there. That's a good point.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's not the main topic of our conversation,

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Speaker 4: but it is baffling because it affects freedom of the press.

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Speaker 4: It is broadly enforced. Like one example would be you

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Speaker 4: can go to jail for three years if you step

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Speaker 4: on a newspaper that has a picture of the king

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Speaker 4: on it, or if you like a social media comment,

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Speaker 4: you can be prosecuted.

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Speaker 3: Do you think you could call a witness to say

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Speaker 3: that it was an accident that you stepped on that

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Speaker 3: newspaper featuring the king and like get out of it.

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Speaker 2: Or his majesty, the King of Thailand does not care

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Speaker 2: if it was an axident.

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Speaker 3: There are no accidents when it comes to defaming the king, right, yeah.

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Speaker 4: I imagine you can mitigate it and say something like, hey,

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Speaker 4: I'm just I'm a foreigner, I'm a fullong, I didn't

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Speaker 4: know I was just walking in a hurry, right. But

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Speaker 4: but it is it is weaponized to persecute political opponents

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Speaker 4: and activists. I mean, it's it's not the topic of

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Speaker 4: our conversation today, but It's a good example of how

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Speaker 4: people can stereotype, exoticize, or simplify images of another place

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Speaker 4: without realizing that there's a complicated reality for the people

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Speaker 4: actually living there. I mean that goes back to, you know,

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Speaker 4: the perception of Thailand as like a party city country,

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Speaker 4: not the store, but like a country where people go

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Speaker 4: to party and do drugs.

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Speaker 3: And well, the drug laws are really strict, right you

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Speaker 3: already mentioned that, but I mean no, I don't think so.

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Speaker 3: They're like very draconian. Yes, yes, sir, you to mess around.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely not, No, absolutely not. And foreign sex tourism is

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Speaker 3: a thing. Human trafficking is a problem. One thing I

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Speaker 3: didn't know much about that plays a role in our

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Speaker 3: show tonight. Consumer debt is out of control in Thailand.

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Speaker 3: It's like ninety something percent of the total GDP. People

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Speaker 3: have all kinds of debt. And there's also a complicated

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Speaker 3: relationship with gambling. It as just like the drug laws.

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Speaker 4: They have very very strict gambled laws, but it's not

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Speaker 4: stopping anything.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd love to explore this a little more, but

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Speaker 3: I'm familiar with the term, I think from the Big

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Speaker 3: Lebowski tie stick, and it referred to a really like

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Speaker 3: powerful strain of marijuana and even like a way that

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Speaker 3: it was like bundled up and sold. And I just

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Speaker 3: looked it up and it's totally a thing like there

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Speaker 3: was in the sixties and seventies. Thailand was responsible for

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Speaker 3: some of the highest quality marijuana out there in the seventies,

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Speaker 3: grown by the hill tribes of Thailand, and they use

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Speaker 3: these like silk lines to tie these buds on, literally

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Speaker 3: tie them to a stick. I wonder if that is

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Speaker 3: part of the complicated, you know, relationship with drugs, is

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Speaker 3: that it had this you know, reputation, and the government

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Speaker 3: decided we don't want that to be part of our

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Speaker 3: legacy or whatever, so they got nasty about it. But

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Speaker 3: also maybe it's okay to export but not for the

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Speaker 3: citizens to use. I'm curious. I'm sorry, I'm just bring

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Speaker 3: a bunch of questions. Those are great questions.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you could we could see that as

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Speaker 4: a react because you know, the recreational drug use is

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Speaker 4: heavily vilified right in all of Southeast Asia. We're not kidding,

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Speaker 4: do not do drugs in Thailand. But it makes sense

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Speaker 4: what you're saying, No, that it could be a reaction

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Speaker 4: even if it's not like a moral imperative to stop

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Speaker 4: people from smoking cannabis. Maybe it's more of something like

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Speaker 4: we need to prove we need to deny drug cartel's

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Speaker 4: income streams for sure.

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Speaker 3: And last thing on this, because I know it's not

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Speaker 3: really the topic today, but I'm just seeing in an

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Speaker 3: article that I found that at the time in the

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Speaker 3: seventies it was largely run by surfers, by Tai surfers,

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Speaker 3: and surfers as a culture at the time in the

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Speaker 3: seventies were considered draft dodgers because they were like shiftless

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Speaker 3: layabouts who were trying to avoid military service, and they

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Speaker 3: were responsible for these very complex smuggling operations that led

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Speaker 3: to the stuff being available in the States. So I

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Speaker 3: don't know, Sorry, this is interest to me, but maybe

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Speaker 3: worth the exploration down the line.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and check out the hippie trail through the

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Speaker 4: fifties and seventies. That's another big piece of history here.

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Speaker 2: And if you find yourself in Thailand, one of the

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Speaker 2: things you have to do is get a little religious,

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Speaker 2: or at least go to the religious sites that are

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Speaker 2: out there. Buddhists, some of the Hindu temple.

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Speaker 3: Shrines, and the.

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Speaker 2: Dude well, some of the watts, some of them that

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Speaker 2: are not. Some of them, like the Sanctuary of Truth,

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Speaker 2: which is the largest wooden building that's entirely magical place

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Speaker 2: it does. If you see it, you would think it's

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Speaker 2: even more magical than the name implies. There's so many

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Speaker 2: there's so many sites in Thailand that are just they

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Speaker 2: defy the imagination, I think when it comes to their architecture,

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Speaker 2: in the detailing.

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Speaker 3: And the jungles, just I mean the absolute lushness of

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Speaker 3: their kind. I guess you call them rainforest kind of,

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Speaker 3: but there there's certainly a lot of really absolutely spectacular

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Speaker 3: you know forests and you know country side things like that.

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Speaker 4: Biodiversity is huge as well, and it's important that we

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Speaker 4: mention these really positive things that are unique to Thailand

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Speaker 4: that not every country has. But the gambling laws themselves.

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Speaker 4: To get back to this, this is a setup the

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Speaker 4: gambling laws themselves, because gambling is so heavily regulated. There

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Speaker 4: are only two exceptions to gambling laws in Thailand. The

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Speaker 4: first is horse racing and the second is the state

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Speaker 4: supported lottery, and anything other than that is illegal. However, Yeah, however,

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Speaker 4: like more than fifty seven percent of the population is

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Speaker 4: into online gambling in some way, and these a lot

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Speaker 4: of these gambling outfits are run by shadowy cartels like

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Speaker 4: you remember Specter from the James Bond series. Of course,

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Speaker 4: there's like a Specter basically for some of this online gambling.

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Speaker 4: A transnational group named the Outlaws, not the most creative name,

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Speaker 4: but they get other stuff doing going on. Another thing

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Speaker 4: that the West doesn't really talk about when it comes

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Speaker 4: to Thailand is the number of serial killers that have

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Speaker 4: been active at some point there. And part of that

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Speaker 4: goes back to what you're talking about with ty stick

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Speaker 4: or the drug trade, the hippie trayal these vulnerable populations

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Speaker 4: were targeted by people who leveraged the criminal underground to

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Speaker 4: get away with crimes that would not be reported right

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Speaker 4: or would be ignored because powerful people weren't getting targeted.

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Speaker 4: That's where our story starts tonight because recently last year,

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Speaker 4: Thai authorities, now it's something new and disturbing, they'd caught

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Speaker 4: what they were calling the most notorious known serial killer

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Speaker 4: in the entire history of the country. A woman in

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Speaker 4: her thirties named Saurat Wrongsiwuthapun good Job, wore on to

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Speaker 4: her friends.

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Speaker 3: That was impressive and I'm not blown Smoke's barely started

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Speaker 3: with that. That was very well well.

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Speaker 4: Apologies, apologies again to all Native Tie speakers. She was

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Speaker 4: known as AHM to her friends. That's what we're going

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Speaker 4: to call her tonight. At least her friends called her

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Speaker 4: that until she murdered them allegedly.

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Speaker 3: Cool. Here's where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 4: While we while we are not Native Tie speakers, we

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Speaker 4: can speak to previous research on the phenomenon of serial killers, right, guys,

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Speaker 4: It's much more rare than perceived in fiction. And there's

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Speaker 4: a kind of demographic of serial killers who tend to

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Speaker 4: get apprehended, right.

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Speaker 2: The dumb ones, now I'm just shooking. I'm the ones,

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Speaker 2: the ones that, yeah, the ones that escalate too quickly.

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Speaker 4: The ones that get caught tend to overwhelmingly be male

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Speaker 4: or male identifying, and they have a lot of behaviors

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Speaker 4: conforming to the controversial McDonald triad theory, which I no,

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Speaker 4: I think in previous episodes we've talked about this, but

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Speaker 4: the more I look into it, there's not a ton

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Speaker 4: of there's not a ton of later research validating this theory.

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Speaker 2: No, that's this is like the behavioral sciences at quantico

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Speaker 2: kind of thinking, you know, early on, but you know

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Speaker 2: there's there's weird stuff in there, especially harming animals early on.

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Speaker 2: That that, to me is one of the biggest the

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Speaker 2: whole bed winning thing. I don't know, I don't know

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Speaker 2: how much water that holds. He But what's the third one?

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Speaker 4: Arson, Yeah, or fascination with fire. I mean fire is fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Though, Yeah, like a harming something else that is living

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Speaker 2: with a perceived callousness, right, and then watching like viewing destruction,

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Speaker 2: watching it occur with the fire, and then at like

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Speaker 2: having some kind of uncontrollable part of your physical body.

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Speaker 4: I always thought, Yeah, that's a better way to phrase it.

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Speaker 4: I always wondered whether the persistent bed wedding thing was

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Speaker 4: a psyop meant to like get in the heads of

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Speaker 4: the criminals being hunted.

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Speaker 3: Maybe.

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Speaker 4: So anyway, if you are looking at news about this person,

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Speaker 4: you will you will run into the name Sauraat, But

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Speaker 4: you are more likely to run into the ghoulish nickname

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Speaker 4: the media gave her, which is om Cyanide.

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Speaker 3: And we don't know a whole heck of a lot

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Speaker 3: about her early life, but the court documents in reporting

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Speaker 3: do give us some basic information. Am who how we're

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Speaker 3: going to refer to her, because I don't think it

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Speaker 3: either matter. I could nearly as good a job as

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Speaker 3: Ben did on that pronunciation, but am as a graduate

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Speaker 3: of Nakhon pathom oh geez I said that now I

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Speaker 3: have to say this Rajabat University, which is west of Bangkok,

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Speaker 3: and her some of her teachers lectures profits seemed to

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Speaker 3: have a similar sense of her personality, And it's kind

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Speaker 3: of stuff we hear often about serial killers that nothing

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Speaker 3: out of the ordinary about her looks or behavior, just

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Speaker 3: you know, kind of kept to herself, you know, not

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Speaker 3: really anything to write home about. She did major in

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Speaker 3: public relations and graduated in two thousand and nine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an interesting thing, right, the interior lives of everybody.

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Speaker 2: It does seem like when you get when you hear

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Speaker 2: that about someone that stands out like this as someone

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Speaker 2: who's done a lot of harm and has kind of

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Speaker 2: a secret life that they're living, it is this weird

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Speaker 2: like there's not a big outward show of anything because

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Speaker 2: so much is going on in the background, the stuff

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Speaker 2: that nobody else gets to see. It is a pretty

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Speaker 2: common thing.

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Speaker 4: Agree, what's that old lying lives of quiet desperation.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: We know that she was married and divorced with a

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Speaker 4: guy named reported sometimes as Vitune or witun Rang Siopon.

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Speaker 4: He was a senior police official in their province, Rachabury.

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Speaker 4: He is no longer a police official, and although their

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Speaker 4: marriage was dissolved, they continued to see each other and

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Speaker 4: live together. It's very again, like you're saying the complicated stories, right.

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Speaker 4: Everybody has stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Well, and it's going to come in later. Just her

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Speaker 2: connection to the police department, which is really fishy to me,

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Speaker 2: I think everybody else. It's just it's a little weird

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Speaker 2: because she did have two children with that person, right,

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Speaker 2: But then she also has this other thing going on,

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Speaker 2: a common law husband.

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Speaker 4: And then we'll see that two police officers also die

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Speaker 4: in the course of this. So fast forward to the arrest.

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Speaker 4: Police arrest Am on Tuesday, April twenty fifth. It's twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty three, and they arrest her after a friend of

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Speaker 4: hers collapses on a road trip earlier that month, April fourteenth,

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Speaker 4: Om was traveling with her friend, a thirty two year

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Speaker 4: old businesswoman named Syrpan Quan Wong, and they were west

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Speaker 4: of Bangkok. They took part in a pretty common thing,

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Speaker 4: a Buddhist protection ritual, which sounds pretty cool. They went

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Speaker 4: to a place called Banpong Pier and they were releasing

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Speaker 4: fish into the river. And that feels like a wholesome

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Speaker 4: hangout time to me. Sure until you see the CCTV

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Speaker 4: footage where Am is the last person seeing with Kwang

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Speaker 4: Wong before she faints and she dies.

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Speaker 3: That's sorry. This was a detail that really stuck out

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Speaker 3: to me. I think in the initial reporting that we

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Speaker 3: looked at, you know, when this case kind of came

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Speaker 3: full circle. Yeah, and she was. She was initially just

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Speaker 3: charged with stealing and the death was believed to have

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Speaker 3: been of natural causes, but later charges began to really

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Speaker 3: pile up, and according to Deputy National Police Commissioner General

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Speaker 3: uh Sura, shot big joke, Hawkparn big joke. I don't know, okay,

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Speaker 3: Maybe maybe it's cultural difference. This is like a sort

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Speaker 3: of a dis nickname. Maybe he just got a good

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Speaker 3: sense of humor. But there was a later autopsy that

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Speaker 3: then found traces of cyanide in Sirah Porn's system.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the victim's mother is part of the reason. How

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Speaker 4: is part of the reason that Am gets caught at all.

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Speaker 4: So the mother's name is Thong Piniri and files a

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Speaker 4: police report. She says, I don't believe that these are

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Speaker 4: natural causes, right, and I demand that there'd be an

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Speaker 4: autopsy done because my daughter's money and jewelry have gone missing.

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Speaker 4: I suspect murder and I'm pretty sure that AHM did it.

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Speaker 4: And if you look at that footage, the CCTV footage,

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Speaker 4: which you can find easily on YouTube or wherever you

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Speaker 4: look for videos, you see that Coi Cooi is the familiar,

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Speaker 4: familiar name people use for kwand Wong. So kwand Wong

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Speaker 4: goes to the pier where she's going to release the fish,

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Speaker 4: and Om goes apparently to the restroom. When Am comes back,

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Speaker 4: she sees her friend has collapsed. She waves bystanders over

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Speaker 4: to come help, but then she leaves the scene and

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Speaker 4: she takes her friend's cash, her friend's mobile phone, and

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Speaker 4: design her handbag.

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Speaker 3: It runs away.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she doesn't stick around at all to help her

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Speaker 2: friend that you know she was on that trip with, right,

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Speaker 2: which is very strange, sus Af. Yeah, and it's also

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Speaker 2: it's the moment you're talking about there, Ben, where the

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Speaker 2: two of them separate and Koy goes down to the water,

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Speaker 2: which is where they're headed and what they're going to do.

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Speaker 2: And it gets even weirder when you start here where

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Speaker 2: this is only one case out of a bunch of

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Speaker 2: them we're going to talk about. But there's something similar

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Speaker 2: here with like sharing something that is ingestible. It can

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Speaker 2: be many one of many things, but sharing something or

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Speaker 2: taking something to drink or eat, it's.

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Speaker 3: The same kind of red flag that we saw around

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Speaker 3: that Australian case that you brought initially, Matt, I believe

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Speaker 3: with the mushrooms and the was it like a beef

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Speaker 3: Wellington or something like. It was some you know again

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Speaker 3: shared food items that and then all of a sudden

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Speaker 3: people are falling ill or dying, you know. I mean

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Speaker 3: that was obviously one situation, but this is many. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think that was what initially caught our attention about

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Speaker 3: that story too, or as hmmm, something funny is going

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Speaker 3: on here.

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Speaker 2: What we're going to find in this is it like

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Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't even think about possibly giving somebody

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Speaker 2: a pill and telling them, hey, this is a vitamin, yeah, supplement.

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Speaker 5: Also, yeah, don't take pills from people no, unless it's

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Speaker 5: in a package, right, and that is clearly be Hey,

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Speaker 5: by the way, folks, we are just because we might

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Speaker 5: be paranoid doesn't mean we're wrong. And guys, I did

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Speaker 5: buy the three the three pack of fire extinguishers. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 5: So so the next time we hang out, they should

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Speaker 5: be here. And it has nothing to do with anything unless

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Speaker 5: you've heard at earlier conversation.

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Speaker 4: We had about this. Anyway, Yes, it goes, it goes deeper,

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Speaker 4: and I think you're right. No, there are similarities. There

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Speaker 4: are similarities that Australian case stood out to me as well.

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Speaker 4: The mother has some juice. The mother Cooy's mom has

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Speaker 4: some juice. She knows people, know people, so she is

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Speaker 4: able to get the case directly to the Deputy Police

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Speaker 4: Chief General Surachat Big Joe Kuckball, and she says, look,

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Speaker 4: I'm afraid that if this goes to the local Ratchaburi

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Speaker 4: police it'll be buried or it'll be ignored because she

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Speaker 4: knows this family and she knows that sauraat or AM's

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Speaker 4: former husband was at the time the deputy superintendent at

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Speaker 4: the local police station. So wheels within wheels, you know,

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Speaker 4: and you have to wonder like what kind of vibe

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Speaker 4: did the mom get that made her escalate it like this?

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Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, well I wonder that a lot. I

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Speaker 2: think just I think just the fact that this supposed

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Speaker 2: friend definitely took money and belongings. Right, And then when

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Speaker 2: you hear I don't, I wonder if she had any

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Speaker 2: contact with any of the other victims, like families, because

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Speaker 2: there is a pattern, and I think if those victims'

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Speaker 2: families or relatives were talking amongst themselves, you would start

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Speaker 2: to see that pattern emerging.

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Speaker 3: That's true pretty quickly too, right. So that's a good point.

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Speaker 4: So a when question denies any involvement in the theft,

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Speaker 4: like you said, Nol, she's originally arrested for stealing, which

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Speaker 4: is not a hard thing to apprehend her for because

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Speaker 4: she does rut off with these belongings.

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Speaker 3: It's on video. It's not a deep fake. It happened.

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Speaker 4: But then, like you said, Matt, investigators start putting together

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Speaker 4: pieces of a puzzle, a puzzle that seems to only

381
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Speaker 4: grow larger and more disturbing with each new discovery. Here's one,

382
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Speaker 4: they fight a bottle of side Eyed at ALM's house

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Speaker 4: during her arrest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the bit of a red flag not really a

385
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Speaker 3: standard household item.

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Speaker 4: Don't think it's not a staple spice in the spice rack.

387
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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, and the big question that we've had in guys,

389
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Speaker 2: I went ahead and sacrifice to my Google search, say

390
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Speaker 2: where where do I where? How can I procure cyanide?

391
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Speaker 2: How could I make cyanide? You know, like it's over

392
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Speaker 2: for me? But yeah, I'm not actually interested in that.

393
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Speaker 2: If anyone's out to.

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Speaker 3: Late, that's exactly what someone would say.

395
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Speaker 2: Dang it, it's funny.

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Speaker 4: I put that later some of our notes because I

397
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 4: was I was having a similar feeling. Is researching some

398
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 4: of this over the over the past few weeks, and yeah,

399
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Speaker 4: I thought, I was like, damn, look at what Look

400
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 4: at what I'm doing. I'm doing bought to dollar conversions.

401
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 4: I'm checking on side eyed regulation and Thailand. I'm checking

402
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 4: on flights to Thailand. I'm looking up Google maps, you know, and.

403
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Speaker 3: How do I set up a post office box and

404
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 3: another name? Exactly?

405
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Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy though, because it'll it's all controlled by

406
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 2: an algorithm that just sees those as points on a map.

407
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 2: And then it's like, oh, I see where this guy's going.

408
00:23:55,560 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 4: Our search histories are the digital version of egregious faced at.

409
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Speaker 3: This point, you know what I mean.

410
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 2: But the big question remains, how did how did she

411
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Speaker 2: get a bottle of cyanide?

412
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Speaker 3: Right right?

413
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Speaker 4: What kind of parties does she go to? Well, investigators

414
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 4: say her, oh, she also claimed later she would go

415
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Speaker 4: on to claim, look, I had nothing to do with

416
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,959
Speaker 4: my friend's death, but she probably took illegal drugs that

417
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 4: were laced with side eye sort of an accidental fetanyl

418
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 4: overdose argument totally by the way, Yeah, her. It turns

419
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 4: out that's sister in law owns a pharmacy also in Ratchaburi,

420
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Speaker 4: where police found what they called a collection of suspicious capsules.

421
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 3: Wait, so is she implicated in this now too, or

422
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Speaker 3: was it maybe just a case of her not knowing

423
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 3: and sort of taking advantage of that relationship?

424
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Speaker 4: Open open ended at this point, We're not sure, or

425
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 4: at least the police have not specifically stated this.

426
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Speaker 3: We that they have been.

427
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 4: They have been since twenty twenty three doing the thing

428
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Speaker 4: where they're trying to track down all possible sources of

429
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 4: cyanide in the country, like where you know where you

430
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,360
Speaker 4: could buy where you could buy this stuff or where

431
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 4: you could make it. You know the number isn't number

432
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 4: isn't certain yet, and also the number of victims isn't

433
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 4: certain yet. People like other families are coming forward, and

434
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 4: it seemed multiple people connected with Ahm at some point

435
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 4: that also died under eerily similar mysterious circumstances. It went

436
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 4: from like eight victims to ten victims, then at least twelve,

437
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 4: the number rows to fourteen, and then fifteen is what

438
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 4: is in the courts right now. But the number speculated

439
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 4: unproven has gone to eighteen, possibly twenty to this day,

440
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 4: no one's sure.

441
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: Well the big deal. It's almost like with Zodiac killer

442
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 2: some of these other major serial killers, trying to find

443
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 2: that first victim date, right, and then you start there

444
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 2: and then you move that number rises as you move

445
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 2: towards present day. But then if you start to go

446
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 2: back a little further, you're like, oh, wait a second,

447
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 2: there actually might be more this time in Riverside or whatever.

448
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 2: That's just like the way these things go. And I

449
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 2: wouldn't be surprised if there are twenty people.

450
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, that first date victim is one of

451
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 4: the big questions, Like it says, it's tough to answer,

452
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 4: is it twenty fifteen? Like ty authoritieser said, is it

453
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 4: two thousand and five, because we're going to have to

454
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 4: discuss a little bit about the science of autopsies and

455
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 4: the bureaucracy and just the chemical nom the group name cyanide.

456
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: Right, maybe the big question is when what was the

457
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 2: inciting incident that made that escalation to of the first poisoning,

458
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 2: Like when what is that thing that pushed her there?

459
00:26:58,640 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 3: Right?

460
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 2: If she is in fact the serial killer that's killing

461
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 2: people with cyanide, because I was just trying to I

462
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 2: was thinking back because she graduated in two thousand and nine, right, right,

463
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: so if it started at college, that would kind of

464
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 2: match up, right, two thousand and five date.

465
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, if the two thousand and five date is is

466
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 4: our date? You know?

467
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 2: Yeah? Anyway, this is fun. Would I would I would

468
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,479
Speaker 2: want to go as deep as possling down as rabbit hole.

469
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,479
Speaker 3: But okay, yes, for sure, and we will go at

470
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 3: least as far as the information we have currently leads us.

471
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 3: After a quick word from our sponsor and we have returned.

472
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 4: Other families are coming forward, other civilians coming forward as

473
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 4: soon as the news of suspected cyanide poisoning breaks, and

474
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 4: a lot of these people are saying a lot of

475
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 4: these people are saying, you know, we have a loved one,

476
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 4: a family member who died and died the same way,

477
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 4: and the last person who kicked it with them was

478
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 4: omb There's another thing we mentioned right before the break

479
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 4: that I think we also have to point out, which

480
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 4: is in cases like this or like Zodiac, when things escalate,

481
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 4: there are also going to be some false positives. Just logically.

482
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 4: There are people who lost a loved one in a

483
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 4: way that might seem similar, and they they will rightly ask,

484
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 4: is my loved one's death part of it? And the

485
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 4: answer is not always yes. But that's why there's sometimes

486
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 4: a fog of war and speculation around the numbers. We

487
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 4: do know, however, that in at least one case, OM

488
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 4: allegedly tried to kill someone who survived.

489
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's something that you do see from time

490
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 3: to time and hunts for serial killers. Is the one

491
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 3: that got away, that makes some report or something that

492
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 3: tends to trigger things, or maybe isn't even a red

493
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,239
Speaker 3: flag until after the fact, and then it's used as

494
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 3: a way of kind of backtracking and finding more about

495
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 3: the person's m O.

496
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 4: Right right, like the like a serial assaulter or killer

497
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 4: who inexplicably at some point kidnaps someone and lets them go,

498
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 4: or chases them but or tries to shoot them but

499
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 4: doesn't shoot them fatally.

500
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 3: Well, like at the time, it might not match a pattern,

501
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 3: so the report might not set off any you know,

502
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 3: alarm bells. But then after their suspicion and then maybe

503
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 3: cross reference for that type of report, you know, then

504
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 3: you see, oh what about this, It's in the right area.

505
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 3: Let's go talk to that person. I'm not saying that

506
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 3: happen in this case, but it certainly could have been

507
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 3: a break.

508
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, and there definitely is that kind of that break

509
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 4: in the in the case here when after this initial reporting,

510
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 4: a thirty six year old woman at the time named

511
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 4: Katima Passeyard known as Plaw to her friends, she comes

512
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 4: to the police and she says, I was poisoned in

513
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 4: twenty twenty, but I made it to a hospital where

514
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 4: doctors resuscitated me. She was at a mall and she

515
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 4: got a pill offered to her by her friend Om,

516
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 4: and they parted ways. She felt a tightness in her chest,

517
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 4: she lost feeling in her hands. She was calling Om.

518
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 4: The story goes to pick her up, but Om got

519
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,959
Speaker 4: lost and so someone contacted emergency services and they were

520
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 4: able to keep her alive.

521
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, the way I've read the story was that

522
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 2: she was trying to call an am was kept like

523
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 2: canceling the phone call basically, you know what I mean,

524
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 2: Like someone sees there's an incoming call, just hits decline.

525
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 2: That's what she was saying. Happy, but she got through

526
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 2: to there's a hotline number sixteen sixty nine there that

527
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 2: she called and was able to get through, which thank goodness.

528
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 2: But she at the beginning, she was unsure that it

529
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 2: was poisoning. She thought, oh, well, something is just wrong

530
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: and I'm having a medical emergency. Sure, and then she

531
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: sees some of the reporting and other events occurring and thinks,

532
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: oh wait a second.

533
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, she didn't put it together. She thought she just

534
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 4: had a close call, you know, and got lucky. She

535
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 4: also told the police as she is putting these pieces together,

536
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 4: that she loaned two hundred and fifty thousand bought to earlier.

537
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 4: Bought is the currency of Thailand, that is right now,

538
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 4: that's probably it's a little bit north of seven thousand

539
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 4: dollars US seven forty eight dollars and change. So there

540
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 4: was a financial incentive, it appeared.

541
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 2: So we're thinking that it would be a tap. If

542
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 2: I'm on I'm taking money from someone, I'm barring that money.

543
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 2: Then I'm killing that person, so I don't owe her anymore, right,

544
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: She's some.

545
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 3: Seems like a plan that could go awry really quickly.

546
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 3: I am shocked, frankly that it went on as long

547
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 3: as it did. Agreed.

548
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 4: I mean, and let's pause here as as we set

549
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 4: up previously to talk a little bit about the nature

550
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 4: of cyanide and have a moment of silence for our

551
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 4: search histories. Paul, could you hit some sad music.

552
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 3: There we go, you know the I think this is

553
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 3: an area where in our initial conversations about this, we

554
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 3: all had questions about like how cinide acts on the body,

555
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 3: what kind of traces does it leave behind, how long

556
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 3: does the stick around in the body? So this is

557
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 3: I think exciting for all of us to kind of

558
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 3: get to the bottom of it. I think we're on

559
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 3: the fly kind of answered some of those questions at

560
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 3: the time, but this is a much deeper dive here.

561
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 3: So this is very cool.

562
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not cool, it's well, we're talking about

563
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 2: sources of cinide poising first, right, so how does it

564
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 2: actually get in your system? I think we've probably heard

565
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 2: that cigarettes can often contain cyanide. We've heard that, but

566
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 2: often I think it's it's like, how much of that

567
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 2: is the anti smoking I don't I don't want to

568
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: say propaganda, but it's the anti smoking message.

569
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 3: Right, like saying it contains jet fuel or whatever.

570
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 2: You know, we know there are additives to cigarettes, but

571
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 2: I think sinide is just one of those, like, oh wow, okay,

572
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 2: that's scary, but I've heard that.

573
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 3: We also know there are allowable levels of mercury and

574
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 3: fish that people can consume.

575
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, anyway, yeah, mercury doesn't like kill you.

576
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing, right.

577
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 4: Like in fiction and in those atrocious spy novels and

578
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 4: all that stuff, cyanide is often portrayed as this super secret,

579
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 4: fast acting thing only am I, six no and Nazis

580
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 4: know about it or whatever. But to your point, Matt,

581
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 4: it might be surprising for love or fellow conspiracy realists

582
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 4: to know that you can be exposed to this toxin

583
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 4: from everyday chemicals and even common food stuff like lima beans, yucca, cassavas, almonds,

584
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 4: apple seeds, burning plastic spoil from a house fire.

585
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, is that one of those things where you is

586
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 3: m of beans is one of those things where you

587
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 3: can cook it down in a certain way and get

588
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 3: an extract some bad things from it, like the breaking

589
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 3: bad thing with the whatever the ricin brought to you

590
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 3: by the Anarchist cookbook.

591
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 2: I see, Okay, God, I knew about pits right in

592
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 2: some fruit right specifically cherry, the stones and cherries, and

593
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 2: how dangerous that's. Yeah, but I've heard that's really dangerous,

594
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,439
Speaker 2: But I never really understood. I guess that you could

595
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 2: weaponize it in a way. I thought it would just

596
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 2: be careful with it. Oh man, quick cursory Google. Most

597
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: cooking research related to sinide removal has been conducted on cassava.

598
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 2: Boiling in water for long periods of time greater than

599
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 2: thirty minutes in a large excess of water is the

600
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 2: most effective method for reducing sinide. Eighty percent of the

601
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 2: original SIGNI.

602
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 3: Will be removed. So that's extraction in terms of making

603
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 3: it safe to eat. But I guess what do you

604
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 3: do with the extract? Man?

605
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: You know?

606
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 2: But is that like with all root vegetables where it

607
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 2: absorbed like they absorb things in the ground or are

608
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: we saying cassava and like yuka, it just has that

609
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:08,240
Speaker 2: in it.

610
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they got that dog in them man. But

611
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 3: the also, your own dry beans is something you got

612
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 3: to be a little bit careful about. Like if you're

613
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 3: not using jarred or whatever canned beans that are pre cooked,

614
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 3: if you're doing it from the raw beans, soaking them

615
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 3: and stuff, you do have to be thoughtful about that

616
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 3: because you can't accidentally not do it right. Yeah.

617
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 4: And and one common misconception that the fictional stories miss

618
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 4: is that cyanide in general refers to any chemical that

619
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 4: contains a carbon nitrogen bond. The issue is that lots

620
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 4: of stuff contains cyanide, but they're not automatically deadly poisons

621
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 4: as a results.

622
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 3: So we're not trying to also be alarmist about beans.

623
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 3: Just it's just to put that out there. No one

624
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 3: needs to be scared about eat eating their vegetables, right,

625
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 3: Oh you should.

626
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 4: You should follow the directions though, Yeah. Sure, we don't

627
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 4: take vegetables for strangers. Don't take vegetables or pills from strangers.

628
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 4: If someone says, hey, you want a pill and you

629
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 4: say no, and they say, hey, do you want this

630
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 4: handful of lina beans also say no.

631
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 3: It sounds like a jack in the beanstock kind of scenario. Exactly,

632
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 3: it really does.

633
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, So like sodium cyanide, potassium cyanide, hydrogen cyanide, these

634
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 4: kind of things are they all have that carbon nitrogen bond,

635
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 4: and those things can be lethal. But there are a

636
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 4: bunch of other compounds called nitrils. You've probably ingested them.

637
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 4: That's the stuff in the cassava, the almonds and so on.

638
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 4: If you do have a case of sinaide poisoning and

639
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 4: acute sinai poisoning, it does kill people quickly.

640
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 3: It works.

641
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,959
Speaker 4: It doesn't like two to five minutes and then they're

642
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 4: dead heart failure. But it's not a silent killer. That's

643
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 4: that's why it's it's weird for it to be so

644
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 4: commonplace in espionage fiction because if you are a medical professional,

645
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 4: you know what you're looking for. It is pretty much

646
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 4: impossible to hide sinai poisoning in a legal dose. That

647
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 4: stuff is readily apparent in a corpse for several months

648
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 4: after death.

649
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 2: That's what you mean by silent Caroll like you undetectable?

650
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 2: I guess right, Okay, Yeah, that makes sense.

651
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's also a very painful death, right, I mean,

652
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 4: so it's an effective poison if you want someone out

653
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 4: of the picture, but it's not something you would realistically

654
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,919
Speaker 4: use if you want to avoid getting caught. So it's

655
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 4: kind of amateur hour to use it.

656
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 2: Well, unless it's in your fake tooth, right and you're

657
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 2: getting tortured or you're.

658
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 4: Killing yourself, right, Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly, which also I

659
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 4: don't know. Apparently it's something that chemists have used historically

660
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 4: when they commit suicide. But the reason they do it

661
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 4: is not because it's painless. It's because it's one of

662
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 4: the most certain ways to do it, like to end

663
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 4: your life. It's just an ugly thing to think about.

664
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, Well I feel better, Yeah, so fun at parties.

665
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 4: Okay, let's get back to the investigation though. So that's

666
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 4: a little bit of cyanide science, right, that's a little

667
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 4: bit why this is unusual. One of the first questions

668
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 4: we could all have is, Okay, so guys, you're saying

669
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 4: this kind of poisoning is readily apparent in an autopsy

670
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 4: of people know what they're looking for. So how did

671
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 4: someone do this for so long?

672
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 3: Right?

673
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 4: Or with so many people we'll get to that towards

674
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 4: the end, but right now, maybe we talk a little

675
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 4: bit about about the the unfolding of the investigation. Authorities said, hey,

676
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 4: owed a lot of these victims' money, she also had

677
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 4: started businesses with them or kind of lows.

678
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's is interesting because it's not like you would

679
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 3: necessarily turn that up from say a credit check or

680
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 3: something like so to oh individuals, multiple individuals money. To

681
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 3: find that out takes a little detective work, you know.

682
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 3: I mean, that's you got to give props there for

683
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 3: them to figuring out that that particular pattern because it

684
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 3: is in a way kind of smart because it's not

685
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 3: something that there's just like a uniform record of necessarily.

686
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 3: Some of the business is sure, but you know, in general,

687
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 3: just like taking out a loan from an individual, she

688
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 3: must have ingratiated herself to a lot of these people

689
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 3: to even be in a position where they would have

690
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 3: done that for her. You know, it's very interesting the manipulation.

691
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 3: The levels of manipulation really start to kind of you know,

692
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,760
Speaker 3: show through here. I think public relations degree. Right, Oh yes, you're.

693
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 2: Right, Ben, tell me correct me if I'm wrong here.

694
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 2: I had read that there are even instances where it

695
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 2: wasn't like a formal loaning of money to on but

696
00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 2: just meeting with somebody that I guess she assumed is

697
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 2: going to have a lot of money on them and

698
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 2: then taking them or attempting to take them out, or

699
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,439
Speaker 2: allegedly attempting to poison them, like at a restaurant or

700
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: at an outing kind of like she did when they

701
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 2: were feeding the fish, things like that, Like did you

702
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 2: find that too or was it all like loans?

703
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of thanks to the National out of

704
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 4: Thailand for some great, great reporting on this, and of

705
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 4: course the public statements of Big Joke, and we have

706
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 4: a bit of an epilogue about Big Joke at the

707
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 4: end of this. But yeah, you're on the money there,

708
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 4: because she would target people, according to prosecutors hashtag allegedly

709
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 4: allegedly allegedly, she would befriend people she perceived as wealthy,

710
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 4: earn their trust, and then say, you know, like, hey,

711
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 4: we should hang out more often, classic manipulation moves, and

712
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,320
Speaker 4: then get them to consume food, drinks, or herbs, and

713
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 4: then search them for money or to deprive them of possessions.

714
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 4: And then it goes to the idea of accomplices, because

715
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 4: if you are, if you are moving hard cash below

716
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 4: a certain amount, not that difficult to move. Possessions, especially

717
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 4: bespoke things or relatively rare things like very high end

718
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 4: designer autrement, that's a little bit tougher, right if you're

719
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 4: if they're only x amount of you know, just for example,

720
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:34,879
Speaker 4: they're only x amount of uh Erme's bags in this town, right,

721
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 4: then the people have those bags know who else has

722
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 4: the bags, so it's all harder to sell it.

723
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 2: Can we talk about one specific case that happen in

724
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen without chivid too far ahead?

725
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

726
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 2: Okay, So there's this one case where OM well, a

727
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 2: person died who was close to AM, and then OMS

728
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 2: seemed to swoop in to try and take over the

729
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 2: finances of this person that died sketch Monta tepe Cowen

730
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 2: or something like that. This person who was who had

731
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 2: left Thailand for quite a while, like I think, got

732
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 2: married somewhere and then came back and when she arrived

733
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 2: back died very soon after, and saraat Om jumped in

734
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 2: to like handle all the post death finances for this person,

735
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: which is really weird.

736
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, let me handle this in your time of grieving,

737
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 4: and unfortunately con artists do that all the world round.

738
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 4: You know, you find somebody at the worst moment in

739
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 4: their life, having lost a loved one, You're a rock

740
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 4: for them to lean on, your purported safe space, and

741
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 4: dangerous things can happen there if people have ill intent.

742
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 3: We know that.

743
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 4: A week after that initial arrest, when all this stuff

744
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 4: has started to come together, the authorities also arrest Ahm's

745
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 4: ex husband, the senior police official, and he gets charged.

746
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 4: This is okay, this is still confusing to me. He

747
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 4: gets charged with fraud and embezzlement, both related to and

748
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,720
Speaker 4: not related to the deaths.

749
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, but because I think there's more going on there,

750
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 2: And again why I brought up the common law husband

751
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 2: that she had. And then also do we mention that

752
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 2: she was four months pregnant when she was picked up

753
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 2: when she was arrested.

754
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 4: We haven't, We haven't she and it is and I'm

755
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 4: glad you brought that up because that is crucial to

756
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 4: other events in the story. She was it's the term

757
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 4: of her pregnancy gets reported at different months to pay

758
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 4: on where you look. But she was definitely She's definitely

759
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 4: pregnant at the time of Houoy's death.

760
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 2: Well, and so it just for me, it brings up

761
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 2: this issue of interpersonal pressures. So if you think about

762
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 2: on pressuring potential victims, alleged victims to you know, do

763
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 2: what she wants to end up getting things from them

764
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 2: for her, I wonder if she has or has had

765
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 2: people in her life that are pressuring her to do

766
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 2: things right as well, because often it's not just a

767
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 2: lone wolf actor doing something like this, right, So I

768
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 2: don't know, I wonder, like, whose father who fathered that child?

769
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 2: Is it the ex is it the common law? Is

770
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: it somebody else? And what are those relationships like, right?

771
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 3: And did she have accomplices? Spoiler?

772
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 4: The Thai courts concluded, yes she does or the type

773
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 4: police did.

774
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 3: We already kind of red flagged her sister in law

775
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 3: a little bit with that, you know, pharmacy. Yeah, well

776
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 3: the pharmacy suspicious capsules or whatever. And so police say

777
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 3: that this gentleman who's now I'm not going to try

778
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:55,439
Speaker 3: to pronounce because you've already done such a great job,

779
00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 3: turned himself into police after authorities issued a warrant. He's

780
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 3: just like here I am. The couple though they were

781
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 3: divorced were actually still living together, and police said that

782
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 3: mister rangsa utha porn it's not too bad, was most

783
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 3: likely involved in the alleged murder of an ex boyfriend

784
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 3: by the name of Suthi Sak Pun Kwan, Yes, and

785
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 3: that he also helped destroy evidence of Kwan Wang's murder. Dude,

786
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 3: that's quite yea quite yeah.

787
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we didn't even really talk about that that

788
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: this is the common law husband, the pun Quan. This

789
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 2: suitisak that you just said. So this person died March twelfth,

790
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 2: I think, twenty twenty three. But this person was potentially

791
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 2: a poisoning victim. Well, at least the reporting that I

792
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,919
Speaker 2: was reading in May of last year, twenty twenty three,

793
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 2: they kept saying potentially another one of the victims. I

794
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 2: think it's I think it's pretty certain at this point

795
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 2: that this person was a victim. But they're also reporting

796
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 2: we're talking about the husband, the ex husband now who

797
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 2: was just arrested. That we mentioned this person I saw

798
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: as a lieutenant colonel. But this is also like the

799
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 2: what did you call him, ben or his title at

800
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 2: the police station.

801
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 4: Oh, I just used a senior police official because he

802
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 4: had he had he was a high level police officer

803
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 4: at one point, and it gets a little confusing for

804
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 4: us because Thai police is the Tai police are a

805
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 4: little bit more militarized than Yes police.

806
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:41,720
Speaker 2: That's why I was so confused when I saw lieutenant

807
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 2: colonel okay, interesting, I wonder what that actually means. And

808
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 2: then was used in a different like he was given

809
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 2: a different standing in another piece of reporting I saw,

810
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 2: but I didn't know, and it didn't say if he

811
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 2: was still an officer employed at the time when he

812
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 2: turned himself or if he had like retired.

813
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 4: No, he was still an officer. He got he got fired.

814
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 2: Got it?

815
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 4: He got fired for this or a life He's like

816
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 4: in very shortcuver of that, you know, because you can't

817
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 4: have you know. It's like, yes, yes, statistically there are

818
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 4: more arsenists in the fire department than there are in

819
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 4: other jobs. But if they find out you're an arsonist,

820
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 4: then you're out of a job, right, They just can't.

821
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 2: That's not very nice. Just think about how much they

822
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 2: love that job.

823
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 3: Are you looking at? Why are you taking the side

824
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 3: of the arsonists.

825
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 2: I'm just saying it, like that's like dream job for.

826
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 4: Why Another disturbing statistic from a while back when people

827
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 4: still went to breaking mortar stores, something like twelve percent

828
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 4: of shoe store employees are working entirely because they have

829
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 4: a foot fetish.

830
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,800
Speaker 3: Sick jeers speaking of I saw an Instagram video earlier

831
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,720
Speaker 3: today where a fan met Quentin Tarantino on the street

832
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 3: in la and asked him to sign her foot and

833
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 3: also to rate her foot. Did he do it? He didn't.

834
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 3: He refused to rate the foot, but you could tell

835
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 3: he got a kick out of him. There we go,

836
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:20,839
Speaker 3: it's worth it.

837
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 4: So this is going to lead us to other people

838
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:28,280
Speaker 4: who charged his accomplices. Her lawyer, ALM's lawyer gets accused.

839
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 4: They say the lawyer knowingly helped destroy or conceal evidence.

840
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 4: They're saying she couldn't have gotten away with it for

841
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 4: as long as she did. But they also discovered something

842
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 4: very important about the motive. And we're going to take

843
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 4: a quick break for word from our sponsors in return

844
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 4: will break it down. We're back in May of twenty

845
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 4: twenty three. Police discover what they believed to be the

846
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 4: primary motive. We danced around it a little bit earlier.

847
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 4: Here money again the great reporting that the nation shows

848
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 4: us that police these stats are astonishing that police discovered

849
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 4: was in possession of seventy eight million bots. That's almost

850
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 4: two point two million dollars spread over Get this, one

851
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,280
Speaker 4: hundred and eighty separate bank accounts.

852
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 2: No, she had a system because think about how many

853
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 2: times that Maybe maybe they're all set up online, but

854
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 2: I mean that the passwords.

855
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:35,399
Speaker 3: Alone, WHOA and Ben. I think you did a great

856
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 3: job of teasing it and really not quite getting to

857
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 3: what it was about. We were talking at the beginning

858
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 3: of the show about the laws in Thailand and about

859
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 3: the cultural issue with gambling and Thailand, and it was

860
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 3: apparently a lot of these accounts, or many of them,

861
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 3: maybe most of them, had been linked to various gambling

862
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 3: sites and accounts. Do you want to do that?

863
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 4: That quote from Big Joke. Sorry, we know he has

864
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,720
Speaker 4: a real title, it's just the name.

865
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 3: It's hard. It's hard to shake a nickname like that.

866
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 3: That is wild Man before Luke, I just wanted to

867
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 3: say to ask, is it sick that in my mind?

868
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,720
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, money, that's boring. I want my serial

869
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:24,359
Speaker 3: killers to only kill for abject pleasure or divine Yeah,

870
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 3: I'm joking, but it is the way we've been conditioned

871
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,760
Speaker 3: to think about serial killers, you know, and this is

872
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 3: basically an elaborate and deadly grift, you know, series of them.

873
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 3: If if everything is as it's as it's said here,

874
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 3: so big joke had this to say. She was gambling

875
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 3: to the tune of about one million bot per day.

876
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 3: The investigators also found that these accounts received money that

877
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 3: had been transferred from directly from some of the victim's accounts.

878
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 2: Oh what, what's that? Translated to one million bots?

879
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 3: That's out twenty eight nine dollars A y go. Do

880
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 3: we know what kind of this matters? Do we know

881
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 3: what kind of games she was playing?

882
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 5: Like?

883
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 3: What? Like?

884
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 2: As you said, no, I don't know, because you had

885
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 2: said that there's a lot of very specific guidelines or

886
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 2: guardrails around gambling, with horse racing being one of the

887
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 2: only like physical versions.

888
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 3: I just wonder if there are similarly guardrails around what

889
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 3: kind of you know, virtual games are allowed to be

890
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 3: played online.

891
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 4: Gambling is illegal, but it's just it's impossible to see,

892
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 4: it's impossible to stop it.

893
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 3: I see.

894
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 2: Do we think she was laundering money for someone? Don't know,

895
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,760
Speaker 2: because if you're spending that much money a day, pushing

896
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 2: it through various whatever gambling sites, casinos, whatever it is.

897
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 2: I imagine that you're actually moving that money for somebody.

898
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 3: It just seems like a risky way to move money. Though,

899
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 3: if you're because you got to place bets, you know,

900
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 3: I mean, like you can lose it. You would be.

901
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 2: Well, why would you have one hundred and eighty accounts? Like,

902
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 2: what is the reason for one hundred and eighty accounts?

903
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 3: Just maybe just maybe they're under different names to obscure

904
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 3: how much money you have by spreading it around.

905
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 4: Maybe there's a limit that one online outlet has allow you.

906
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 3: To do per day, that's per account. And also, you

907
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,280
Speaker 3: gotta wonder too, it seemed like she was really keen

908
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 3: on quote unquote taking over people's accounts and finances. You

909
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 3: gotta wonder if she maybe just did that too with

910
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 3: someone I don't know.

911
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 4: I mean, that's true, that's possible, right because what they

912
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 4: they they're not they're saying that the accounts belonged to her,

913
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 4: But that's not quite the same thing as saying that

914
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 4: she used her real name on all of these And

915
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 4: this leads to two other big issues in Thai society.

916
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 4: This online gambling thing that we've mentioned Uh, it doesn't

917
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,799
Speaker 4: seem to have the same sort of in practice regulation

918
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 4: they'd be familiar with in other countries. It is apparently

919
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 4: an open secret that a significant portion of these operations

920
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:05,879
Speaker 4: are touched by, or indeed run by transnational crime cartels

921
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 4: like Spector Level stuff, possibly with the assistance from corrupt

922
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,319
Speaker 4: government officials. In twenty twenty two alone, the one we

923
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 4: have the most recent numbers for fifteen hundred people were

924
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 4: arrested for some version of fraud and online gambling.

925
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:21,879
Speaker 3: Good.

926
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 4: It really makes you think about the you know, the

927
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 4: folks on this side of the pond who cheat at

928
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:32,240
Speaker 4: multiplayer games, right, little hacker guys on Call of Duty

929
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 4: or whatever.

930
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 3: I can't remember.

931
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, what if one of them is what if

932
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 4: one of them is working for an international crime ring

933
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 4: and they're just in the test case where they have

934
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 4: to try out, try it out and see whether there's

935
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 4: money to be made cheating a Call of Duty or

936
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 4: Tech and eight which just came out and slaps and

937
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 4: it's fun and everyone should play it.

938
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 2: I don't believe that you're playing Tech and eight for

939
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 2: a second, Ben, you do not have time to be

940
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:58,359
Speaker 2: playing Tech and eight.

941
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 3: Trust Come on, I'll tell you what I got recently,

942
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 3: just to light in them a little bit. I think

943
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 3: it's street Fighter five Championship Edition, which gives you all

944
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 3: of the street Fighter games up to five and has

945
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 3: like intense online capabilities. Really fun. Those games are so

946
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 3: fun still and hold up really beautifully to this day.

947
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:22,720
Speaker 2: Does they have street Fighter Alpha?

948
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 3: I think it does. Yeah. I mean, I think it's

949
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 3: got all the ITAs leading up to five if I'm

950
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 3: not mistaken, but I haven't really exported, but it's pretty

951
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 3: big package. That's so crazy.

952
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 4: Why did it take street Fighter ten, like more than

953
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:36,479
Speaker 4: ten years to learn to count to three?

954
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? It's unfortunate, but.

955
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 2: Well because they had better words like turbo, you know.

956
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 3: Well, I guess it's one of those things sort of

957
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 3: like with Mario Kart eight. You know where we've been

958
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 3: on Rock and Mario Kart eight for going on a

959
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 3: decade now, and they just keep kind of upgrading the

960
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 3: game because they don't need to release another iteration if

961
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 3: the previous one's still killing it. That was the case

962
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 3: with street Fighter too. It was just like blockbuster game

963
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:02,359
Speaker 3: for Capcom, you.

964
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 4: Know, yeah, and these blockbuster games, like gaming makes a

965
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 4: lot of money spoiler. Folks, you can probably tell we're

966
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 4: gearing up for some episodes on gaming in the future,

967
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 4: I think.

968
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 3: Especially with everything that's going on in China. We got

969
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 3: a email recently. I listened to mail kind of breaking

970
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 3: down some of that stuff about the regulations of online

971
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 3: gaming and how it actually pertains to another cultural seeming

972
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 3: cultural issue with you know, this kind of stuff. I mean,

973
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's hard to say, like we certainly

974
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 3: have that here too, but I think it's different. I

975
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 3: think it varies from culture to culture, the relationship with

976
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 3: gambling and even with just like screens and stuff, you know.

977
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 4: And then there's also the question of whether prohibition works

978
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 4: and if so, degree right, the biggest question. Yeah, So

979
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 4: this in twenty twenty two alone, fifteen hundred people arrested

980
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 4: for some sort of online gambling thing. Did a little

981
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:58,839
Speaker 4: bit of digging and found that there's a group called

982
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 4: International out Laws who are known for their work in

983
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 4: online gambling in Thailand. Their other work includes human trafficking

984
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 4: and the drug trade. So this is like when the

985
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,879
Speaker 4: cartels got involved in avocados, you know what I mean,

986
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 4: they count an income stream. And the second thing this

987
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 4: triggers in Thailand, which is going on today still is

988
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 4: a national concern among the Taie public. Concern that we

989
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:29,399
Speaker 4: share here, which is how easy is it to get

990
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 4: cyanide or make cyanide?

991
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:32,959
Speaker 3: How easy? Why does it.

992
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 4: Seem so easy for the average person to use it

993
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 4: repeatedly in a multi year killing spree? Why didn't the

994
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 4: coroner catch any of this stuff?

995
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:42,399
Speaker 3: Right?

996
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 4: We don't even know how far back it went, So

997
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 4: we have some things to return back to at the

998
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 4: end here. First, the public was also horrified to learn

999
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 4: that would not receive the death penalty. Thailand does have

1000
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 4: capital punishment, they do have a heart justice system. Again,

1001
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:05,399
Speaker 4: never do drugs in Thailand. We cannot emphasize that enough.

1002
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 4: But the law there does not allow for the death

1003
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 4: penalty in the case of pregnancy.

1004
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 3: In jew I would argue that's humane and appropriate. I

1005
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:20,919
Speaker 3: would also question as to whether she knew that yeah,

1006
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 3: and acted accordingly. Wouldn't you say this is someone who

1007
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 3: lacks remorse if everything is as it's being alleged. This

1008
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 3: is like, you know, for people throw around the black widow.

1009
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 3: Maybe that's sexist. I don't know, It's just a term

1010
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 3: pop culture has sort of you know, thrown around for

1011
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 3: years the idea of someone using poison to kill people

1012
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 3: who are close to them, whether it be a spouse

1013
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 3: or you know, a loved one, or someone who's trust

1014
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 3: they've earned. But it seems to me this is someone

1015
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 3: who absolutely, whether feeding an addiction to gambling or just

1016
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 3: out of callousness and lack of remorse, is is doing

1017
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 3: this to people. You know, This is someone who is

1018
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 3: not not a good person.

1019
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's really weird to me that her ex

1020
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 2: husband lived and then her new common law husband died fight, which.

1021
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 3: Maybe he didn't have any money, maybe he wasn't a

1022
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 3: worthwhile target, you know.

1023
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 2: Well, and then she's allegedly still hanging out with her

1024
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 2: ex husband, so I you know, it just the fact

1025
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 2: that he's a police officer, that there was so much

1026
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 2: suspicion that there would be some kind of information leaking

1027
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 2: or you know, something fishy going on, if that local

1028
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 2: police department was involved in her prosecution or arrest and

1029
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 2: all that stuff. It does it just makes me wonder,

1030
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 2: like what was that relationship actually?

1031
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 3: Like I have a hot, wild prediction, y'all. There's going

1032
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 3: to be a movie, probably a few varying degrees of quality.

1033
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 4: It's also surprising, as we were talking about off here,

1034
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 4: it's also surprising just how little exploration this story has gotten,

1035
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 4: considering conservas.

1036
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 3: Of mainstream media.

1037
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I had to, like, I had to come of

1038
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 4: people who speak tay, you explain this to me just

1039
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 4: in general.

1040
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 3: When it came up as a strange news it was

1041
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 3: almost like it was mega under the radar feeling, you know.

1042
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 3: I mean, there are stories about American technology malfunctioning that

1043
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 3: gets more press than this, right, and this is a

1044
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 3: huge story in Thailand.

1045
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 4: Of course, we don't have there is more news. In

1046
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 4: June of twenty twenty three, al was sent to the

1047
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 4: Police General Hospital in Bangkok after prison officials failed to

1048
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 4: detect the heartbeat of her child. The child was lost.

1049
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 4: Medical staff performed the abortion, so she is no longer pregnant.

1050
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 3: We don't know. Wait, what does that mean? Does that

1051
00:59:57,640 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 3: mean there can be a change on your zone?

1052
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 4: No, okay, I mean in the penalty right, unknown and

1053
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 4: social media already in Thailand already had you know, quite

1054
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 4: an adverse reaction to the idea that this person was

1055
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 4: possibly going to escape the death penalty by virtue of

1056
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 4: carrying a child. So it has changed the conversation. We

1057
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 4: don't know the full updates. By the way, the reason

1058
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 4: we kept saying allegedly Alm has not been officially convinced.

1059
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 3: She hasn't been sentenced, right, so then absolutely could change.

1060
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 3: It would change. I would think this would change everything

1061
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 3: in terms of what's on the table. I don't know

1062
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 3: how different the tie legal system is than ours, but

1063
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 3: you'd think there would be similar prosecutor type things seeking

1064
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 3: the death penalty.

1065
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 4: You know, yeah, well, I mean we're talking about when

1066
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 4: the police concluded their investigation. She's going to trial for

1067
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 4: fourteen murders. But as happens often in the cases of

1068
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 4: alleged improven serial killers, those are only the murders they

1069
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 4: feel they can prove in court. That does not mean

1070
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 4: it's the entirety and she is. These murders occurred across

1071
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 4: eight different provinces. This creates a grand total of eighty

1072
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 4: separate charges. That is the highest for a single person

1073
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 4: in the entire history of Thailand.

1074
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 2: Can we talk? Can we just how did that go

1075
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 2: on for so long? Guys?

1076
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my question top of mind. I think for

1077
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 3: all of us throughout here.

1078
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 2: How expensive is it and how time consuming is it

1079
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 2: to test for cyanide or poisoning in general. Right when

1080
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 2: you're when you're looking at a victim or someone who

1081
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 2: has died, right and they're going through the system, would

1082
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 2: it be that bad to just let's just test everybody's

1083
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 2: blood a little bit, just to see, just to see, right,

1084
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 2: Because I guess you wouldn't order a toxicology report for everybody,

1085
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 2: for everybody that you come upon, you know, in any

1086
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 2: provincial police department. But my goodness, maybe we just should do.

1087
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 4: That right there are I mean there there should always

1088
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 4: be an autopsy, even when even when the cause of

1089
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 4: death seen is readily apparent. I believe under tie law,

1090
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 4: I was reading about this got my search history, guys,

1091
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 4: rip I was reading about Thie law for autopsies as well,

1092
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 4: right after searching for some specifics about cyanide and autopsies

1093
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 4: are supposed to be the standard operating procedure.

1094
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 2: No matter what.

1095
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 4: Okay, right, But the coroner's office had a lot of

1096
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 4: controversy with this because it goes back to what do

1097
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:29,480
Speaker 4: we mean when we say autopsy? Does that include toxicology?

1098
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 3: Right?

1099
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 4: And then there are cases. The thing that stood out

1100
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 4: is the family relatives can request that an autopsy not

1101
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 4: be done and requests just automatic cremation instead. So some

1102
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 4: of the reason I think the murder count may be

1103
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 4: higher the alleged murder count account is because there were

1104
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 4: several people who apparently died under similar suspicious circumstances, but

1105
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 4: their bodies were cremated in accordance to their religious beliefs.

1106
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 2: I think that goes on the suspicious list. The moment

1107
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 2: a family member says, no autopsy please go yeh, the

1108
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 2: police can.

1109
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 4: Say, the police can say, with all due respect, sorry, man,

1110
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 4: you know you are you just.

1111
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 2: Say okay, and then you go do the autopsy.

1112
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 4: Right, But you know it's it's up to the discretion

1113
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 4: of them. It's like, you know, if you're standing by

1114
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 4: a burned down house with a can full of gas

1115
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 4: and a handful of matches, right.

1116
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 2: So, yeah, you don't need to this is just a

1117
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 2: natural fire. Do you no need to look into this one?

1118
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:35,640
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think it was the wiring anyway.

1119
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this this leaves us with more questions. One

1120
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 4: of the last updates you can find in the West

1121
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 4: is that and Olm filed a defamation case against a

1122
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 4: guy who is a prominent coordinator for claims of the

1123
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 4: victims kind of an organizer for group statements from them

1124
01:03:56,720 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 4: or from their families. And that defamation suit. You know,

1125
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 4: Thailand again takes those very seriously, even if you're not

1126
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 4: the king. But that defamation suit was dismissed by the

1127
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 4: courts about four months ago, so things are moving forward.

1128
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 4: There's a huge concern in Thailand overall about autopsy procedures

1129
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 4: and that big question how did one person, a troubled

1130
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 4: civilian with no training, get away with these horrendous acts

1131
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 4: so often for so long? Perhaps most troubling, is it

1132
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 4: possible someone else could be doing the same.

1133
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, nothing really indicated this along the way,

1134
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 3: but it does make me wonder if there is an

1135
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 3: inside person with law enforcement, even you know, like someone

1136
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 3: helping cover the trail or whatever. I don't know. It

1137
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 3: just doesn't seem like it makes sense for this to

1138
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:44,200
Speaker 3: be able to have gone on for so long.

1139
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 2: Who was that seventy eight million bought four right? Who

1140
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 2: is it for? Why would she need to go and

1141
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 2: take more victims to get small amounts of cash like

1142
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 2: that because she didn't get huge amounts from every victim.

1143
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,479
Speaker 2: What is she using that money to fuel? And who's

1144
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 2: benefiting from it. Besides her, that's the big question.

1145
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 4: I think kind of like the kind of like the

1146
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:14,640
Speaker 4: question about the various strings leading off from the story

1147
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:19,560
Speaker 4: about the two Oklahoma guys who got busted for cannabis tracking.

1148
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 4: And we've received some excellent correspondence about that folks quite recently.

1149
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:26,120
Speaker 4: So thank you for the letters. Keep them coming, give

1150
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,920
Speaker 4: us new leads on different episode topics you think your

1151
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 4: fellow conspiracy realist would enjoy. Let us know what you

1152
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 4: think about this case, because again we're being fully transparent.

1153
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 4: We don't have all the answers here. This person has

1154
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 4: not been convicted in court, but there are deeply, profoundly

1155
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 4: disturbing things about this case, even aside from the headlines.

1156
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 4: So tell us where you think these puzzle pieces go.

1157
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:53,080
Speaker 4: We can't wait to hear from you. We try to

1158
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 4: be easy to find online.

1159
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 3: That's right, and we hope that we succeed. And you

1160
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 3: can find it to the handle Conspiracy Stuff on Facebook,

1161
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 3: on YouTube, and also on the social media platform formerly

1162
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 3: known as Twitter. People call it x some people. You

1163
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 3: can also find It's a Conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram

1164
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 3: and TikTok.

1165
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 2: Hey. You can find our voicemail system by dialing one

1166
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 2: eight three three st d WYTK. When you call in,

1167
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 2: you've got three minutes. Give yourself a cool nickname and

1168
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 2: let us know if we can use your message and

1169
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 2: voice on the air. If you've got a links or

1170
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 2: a huge story to tell us, or attachments, whatever it is,

1171
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:33,560
Speaker 2: especially cat pictures, send them to send them to us.

1172
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 4: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1173
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1174
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:02,959
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. More podcasts from iHeartRadio visit the iHeartRadio app,

1175
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.