1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: Podcast playground Taking a Walk last night, Will Doris Kerns Goodwin. 2 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: It is so nice to see you. I'm so glad 3 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: to be with you. This is fun and what a 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: beautiful night. It's perfect for this. And you are now 5 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: a repeat guest on the Taking a Walk podcast. You're 6 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: the first repeat guest. Well, that's an honor. I'm very 7 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: glad to know. I went back into the records and 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: you were on episode six and now where I've lost track, 9 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: I don't know, fifty plus. Pretty amazing. Good for you. Yeah, well, 10 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: thank you for being always a supporter and certainly a 11 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: supporter of this Taking a Walk podcast, which I'm so 12 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: enjoying doing. I get to meet new people along the way, 13 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: but that's fun. But the reconnecting with my old friends 14 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: the podcast is also one of the real joys of it. 15 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: No question, the older you get, the more the old 16 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: friends matter. Yeah, it really is special. So how have 17 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: you been What have you been up to? That's fun? Well, 18 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 1: a couple things. I mean, I've gotten into the film 19 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: world now, I mean I think it partly started with 20 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: the experience of working with Steven Spielberg on Lincoln. Before that, 21 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: my husband was involved in the quis Show movie with 22 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: Robert Redford. So I formed a partnership with my great 23 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: friend Beth Laski, and we've been executive producing a series 24 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: of docu dramas on the History Channel. So the first 25 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: one was on George Washington, which was in twenty twenty, 26 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: and then there was one on Lincoln, and then one 27 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: on Teddy Rosevelt, and now we're doing FDR and then 28 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: hopefully Eisenhower after that. And what's great about them is 29 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: that they are a mixture of a real film. They're 30 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: filmed in Cape Town, so half of it is an 31 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: actual actor's drama cinematography and the other half is the 32 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: historians providing context for it. So it's a great combination. 33 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: They've been filming all these in Cape Town, and if 34 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: it hadn't been for COVID, I would have gone down there. 35 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: It's a wonderful place evidently for films because they have 36 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: not only a tax credit, but a lot of different 37 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: sceneries that you can have because it could be the 38 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: bad Lands for Teddy, or could be the tenement house 39 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: in the next breath. And they have a lot of 40 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: actors that can be the sort of extra actors who 41 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: can speak English, so that's been really fun. It's another 42 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: world now I've got involved in a potential film with Amazon, 43 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: and so that's been a new part of a career 44 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: in a certain sense in an older age. But I'm 45 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: still writing. I'm still writing in lecturing, which is the 46 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: core of what I do during the day. So writing, 47 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: how do you discipline yourself to set up a day 48 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: to get your writing done. The huge thing for me 49 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: all the years when I lived in Conquered, when my 50 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: husband was alive, is that I would wake up every 51 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: morning at five point thirty and he didn't really get 52 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: up until eight o'clock or so, so I had that 53 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: time between five thirty and eight, no emails, just to 54 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: be able to just start writing. Then we'd have breakfast 55 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: and then he'd go to his study. I'd go to mind. 56 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: Then we'd have lunch and then break again and he 57 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: might read in the afternoons that I could go back 58 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: to work. And then, as you know, because I used 59 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: to see you all the time, we'd always go out 60 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: to dinner at night to the various bars and Conquered 61 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: and that was the end of the night. So I 62 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: never tried to work at night, and we'd get to 63 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: bed usually by ten thirty to be able to get 64 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: up at five thirty. What happened when I first moved 65 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 1: into Boston after Dick died is I didn't keep to 66 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: that schedule. I was staying up late at night and 67 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: not getting up as early in the morning. And finally, 68 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: about five months ago, I said I'd have to stop 69 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: doing this. So I'm back to going to bed at 70 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: ten thirty or eleven, and except for some nights, of course, 71 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: but waking up at five thirtieth. And that's the only 72 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: way I can do it, because then if I'm doing 73 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: these other things, the movies or lectures, I don't do 74 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: any of them till afternoon at least, so that the 75 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: morning is totally the writing that I'm doing. And then 76 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: you just force yourself. You can't escape it. You have 77 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: to do it. I feel bad, I'm taking you out 78 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: clubbing tonight in Boston. No, it's okay, it's not just 79 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: say it's night. It's okay. We're going to the Quinn. 80 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: But we'll talk about that. We'll talk about that. But 81 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: do you so I'm just fascinated on the process. So 82 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: do you set a goal of how much you write? 83 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: Or is it just to sit down and take on 84 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: the task of writing. It's really just to sit down 85 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: and take it on. I mean, I know there are 86 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: certain writers who say they have to write three pages 87 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: or you know, I remember hearing some of them they 88 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't spoke a cigarette until they got a certain number 89 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: of pages done, or they wouldn't have a drink until that. Sometimes, though, 90 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: I do sort of set a deadline for when I 91 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: want to finish a chapter to send in to my editors, 92 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: and that at least helps me because even if I 93 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: don't make the actual deadline, at least it's close. Like 94 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: I now, I'm working on chapter four of a new book, 95 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: and I promise myself by the end of July, i'd 96 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: get it done. Now the end of July is creeping 97 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: up very soon, but I will be close. I will 98 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: because I set the deadline. So it matters to have 99 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: these little deadlines. What sort of perfection are you aiming 100 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: at with these initial writings. That's really interesting to ask, 101 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: because I think people are very different. There are some 102 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 1: writers who can just write really, really rough drafts and 103 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: then edit them, and they're great editors out them. They 104 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: might go over them four or five six times. I 105 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: can't really finish a chapter unless it's almost done, so 106 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: that if there's something missing and there's some piece of 107 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: research I need to do, I have to do it. 108 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 1: It's not the greatest way to do it, but it's 109 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: the only way I can do it. So at least 110 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: I know when I get these chapters done that they'll 111 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: need copy editing, they'll need my editors to comment on 112 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 1: them as I do it. But I've got my best 113 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: foot forward. That's just the way I try and do it. 114 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: And can you talk about what you're in general writing about. Yeah, 115 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: it's really been an extraordinary and hard and emotional and 116 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: good process. Dick left three hundred and fifty cartons and 117 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:01,679 Speaker 1: materials that he had saved over the years. He kept everything. 118 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: It was just a packrack. So he's almost like the 119 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: Forest Gump of the nineteen sixties because he's everywhere you 120 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: want to be in the sixties. So these papers of 121 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: him start with hundreds of letters to his wife, and 122 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: not to his wife's, hundreds of letters to his mother 123 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: and his best friend. When he's in college at Tufts 124 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: and then goes to Harvard Law School, and then in 125 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: the sixties, we've got him going to work for John 126 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 1: Kennedy as an aide in the campaign, and then being 127 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: on the White House staff, and then going to work 128 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: for LBJ and writing all the civil rights speeches, and 129 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: then going against the war in Vietnam, and then being 130 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: in the McCarthy campaign, then leaving that to go with 131 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: his best friend Bobby Kennedy with him when he died. 132 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: So it's really a time capsule of the sixties. But 133 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: with all the primary documents that are there, memorabilia from 134 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: the inauguration, letters from Jackie Kennedy, memos to Bobby, memos 135 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: to the presidents. Dick saved everything. So we started going 136 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: through the boxes in those last years before he died, 137 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: and I'm writing about that process. I'm going through the 138 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 1: boxes with him. And it must have been like every 139 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: place that you turned, just some new surprise you found. Right, 140 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: no question, there are things what I had never seen before. 141 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: And when you're an historian, it's the most exciting thing 142 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: is to be holding an actual document. And here it 143 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: was not that I'm studying FDR or Lincoln or the 144 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: papers of Teddy Broser. It's my husband's papers. And he 145 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: was really at the center of so much stuff and 146 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: was a great writer, and a lot of the drafts 147 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: of his speeches are now icons that we shall overcome 148 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: speech and Howard University's speech Boys Concession speech was just 149 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: mentioned on the December the January sixth hearings the other 150 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: day as such a contrast to the lack of peaceful 151 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: transition of power. Now, so I know you made a 152 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: trip to France that we want to talk about, which 153 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: kind of ties into maybe a little bit of way 154 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: the world is. Do you want to talk about your 155 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: trip and what you experienced there. Yeah, I just went 156 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: with a group of people to Normandy, where I had 157 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: never been before. I can't imagine why my husband I 158 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: didn't go there, because it was the most powerful place 159 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: I've been in a long period of time. And just 160 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: being able to see those beaches. We went to Utah 161 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: Beach and Omaha Beach, and imagine how those soldiers were 162 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: able to get out of those landing craft go into 163 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: that water. People were killed in the water. They have 164 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: to swim to the shore, and then they have to 165 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: climb up those hills and there's machine guns raining on them, 166 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: and they kept doing it and doing it. And not 167 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: only the courage it took, but the sense of wanting 168 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: to do this for their buddies and wanting to do 169 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: this for the nation. It was just such an emotional experience. 170 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: And then you see the cemetery there. It's so beautiful, 171 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: just these very simple white stones, crosses and Jewish stars 172 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: that row after row after row of all these young 173 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: people that gave their lives for the country. And it 174 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 1: just was such a contrast to come back to what 175 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,079 Speaker 1: we're feeling right now, which is the lack of a 176 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: collective sense of a nation, a lack perhaps of sacrifice 177 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,719 Speaker 1: for the greater good, and a lack of leadership. I mean, 178 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: when we were there, I had to give lectures on 179 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: Eisenhower and Churchill and FDR. What a great three leaders. 180 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: How lucky we were that all three were there together 181 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: at the same time. Right, And where are they now? 182 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: Come back? Right? And when you really reflect on it, though, 183 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 1: do you still believe democracy will be intact? I think 184 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: we have to believe it. If we don't have that 185 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: belief that it's possible that we can make things better, 186 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,199 Speaker 1: then it's not going to happen, you know. I think 187 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: FDR once said, problems created by man can be solved 188 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: by man. We've created these problems for ourselves. You know, 189 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: we haven't had enough empathy toward other people who are 190 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: feeling different for ourselves. The parties have divided along rural 191 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: and city lines, along West and East lines and Midwest lines, 192 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: and campaign financing is out of whack, and nothing done 193 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: in Washington across party A lines it used to be. 194 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: But all those things were different at one point, so 195 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: they can be slowly made better again. But creating a 196 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: sort of a more healthy democracy, I think is the 197 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: challenge for this generation, and it's going to take a lot. 198 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: It's going to take a lot of changes in our 199 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 1: political structure. It's almost like a political revolution. I think 200 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: we need to make that possible. And you have, as 201 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: long as I've known you through I mean not as 202 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: challenging times as now, but certainly through other challenging times, 203 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: you have always held, based on your view of history, 204 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: that sense of optimism. Now I think history does really 205 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: provide that for you, because it's just a reminder that 206 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: we've been through really hard times before that. When you 207 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: think about the early days of the Revolution, when it 208 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: was not at all clear that the nation would be born, 209 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: When Washington is at Valley Forge without supplies and it 210 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: looks like it might be over. You think of the 211 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: early days of the Civil War when the countryes literally 212 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: split apart, and when Lincoln worries that democracy is in peril. 213 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: You know, he said that in some ways the central 214 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: issue of the war at the very beginning was can 215 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: you have a country if the people who lose the election, 216 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: as the South did, can decide to secede from the Union, 217 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: then democracy proves itself impossible. And it took a Civil 218 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 1: war to answer that question, but it finally got answered, 219 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: and the country was stronger with the Emancipation Proclamation. And 220 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: then you have the Great Depression, where at rock bottom 221 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: when Fdr comes in, and yet somehow he was able 222 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: with his leadership and that inaugural speech that changed the 223 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: mood of the country to get us through the depression. 224 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: And then finally the early days of World War Two, 225 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: when Hitler had conquered almost all of Europe and we 226 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: were only eighteenth in military power, I mean incredible, you know, 227 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: we only became seventeenth when Holland surrendered. We'd let the 228 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: military establishment go during the depression, and yet the Allies 229 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 1: won that war. So looking back at history, it does 230 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: provide a sense of perspective and hope because you see 231 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,719 Speaker 1: that really tough times and the people you know. I've 232 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: said this, I keep saying this because I think it's 233 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: important for people to understand this. People didn't know at 234 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: the time how it was going to end. We know 235 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: it ended well all those things. We know that the 236 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: war was won, We know that the Allies won, that 237 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: the Civil War ended, right, but they didn't know that, 238 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: just like we don't know where our next chapter is 239 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: going to be written, So we just have to fight 240 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: for it, and I think we will. I mean, I 241 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: think we are doing that right now. In many ways. 242 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: There are people in local government, people in movements, people 243 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: in the January sixth hearings that are making points that 244 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: I think will be felt by people. Do you ever 245 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: just wonder how difficult it is for someone to want 246 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: to run for an elected office. I think you've hit 247 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: on the exact problem. I mean, we don't have right 248 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: now the great incentives for people to want to be 249 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: in public life. They look at what's happening in Washington, 250 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: how can they feel they're going to really make a difference, 251 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: And yet you have to raise all that money you're 252 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: in that indebted to the people to whom you've raised 253 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: the money from your private life is going to be posed, 254 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: and you're not really necessarily feeling like I'm doing something 255 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: that matters. It's worth it all if you can feel 256 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: like you're making a difference, because that's what politics does. 257 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: I mean. Teddy Roosevelt once said, when he first got in, 258 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: he didn't really know that he was doing it for 259 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: a purpose. He just thought it might be fun. But 260 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: then he realized that he could really change things for people, 261 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: and it made him feel a sense of fulfillment. And 262 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: that's what you're hoping for in any profession you choose 263 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: any vocations, and politics allows you to do that. It 264 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: leads you to see other people's ways of life. If 265 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: you do it right, you're experiencing a lot of different 266 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: kind of work, experiences, a lot of different people at 267 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: different stages of your life. But until we get that 268 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: sense back that a younger generation wants to get into 269 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: public life and change the rules of public life, it's 270 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: going to be hard. Well, you did it again. You 271 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 1: gave me some hope, as I was necessarily not as 272 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: hopeful before we got to be hopeful. You got to 273 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: have hope. A home damn Yankees. You've done it again, Doris. 274 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: I really appreciated. So I mentioned earlier the Quinn. So 275 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: we are situated for taking a walk on Commonwealth Avenue 276 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: in Boston in the back Bay, which is a glorious area, 277 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: and this is I guess the mall area that we're on, 278 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: and we're across the street from this amazing building. Can 279 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: you talk about the special place that you're taking me too? 280 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: I am well indeed. So what happened is there was 281 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: a club in Boston called the Old Algonquin Club. The 282 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: Algonquin Club was a stuffy male club for years. I 283 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: remember when I was teaching at Harvard. I went to 284 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: it once just to give a lecture, but then it 285 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: was all men. So finally finally it opened to women, 286 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: but it was sort of too late to not appear 287 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: like an old guy's club. So these people from bain On, 288 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: the Edgertons took it over two years ago and they 289 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: innovated the entire It's a beautiful old building and six floors, 290 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: and they made it a club for younger people as 291 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: well as older people in Boston. So if you're a 292 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: young person, so the average age looks to me like 293 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: it's thirty five or forty. I thought I'd come here 294 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: when I joined, and I'd meet my eighty year old guys. 295 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: I'll meet some guy there. Now the average age is 296 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: probably forty or something, but it's very diverse. If you're 297 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: nonprofit or you're younger, you pay less dues than another 298 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: person might pay. And they've attracted an enormous group of 299 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: interesting people. So they've got like five different places you 300 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: can eat. There's a cafe downstairs with really good food, 301 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: Then there's a fancy restaurant on the third floor. Then 302 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: there's a pub where all the games are shown and 303 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: there's billiard tables. Then there's a champagne bar, and then 304 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: there's a little bar and so you can choose where 305 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: you want. Then there's a roof deck where you can 306 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: eat or just go and have a drink. And they 307 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: kept the artwork from the old Algonquin Club, so they've 308 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: got all these old portraits of these nineteenth century guys 309 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: along with modern art that the people have really put 310 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: together here. So it's really been fun. I found in 311 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: a place well, you know, from Conquered. The great thing 312 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: about Conquered was going to the same places regularly. You know, 313 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: the people. You know the waiters, you know the food 314 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: that's going to be there, they know what drink to 315 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: serve you. So for me in Boston, this place has 316 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: become that that's awesome. Now, was the original Algonquin was 317 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: one of the original founders of the Boston Globe associated 318 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: with that? I don't know, I should know. In fact, 319 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: the interesting thing is the founders. There's a founders club, 320 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: so there's certain people who are involved that they have 321 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: a special room that they go to here. We'll have 322 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: to ask them when we get in there. Who was 323 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: the original founder? It could well be what a spectacular space, 324 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: the Quinn the Quinn instead of the Algonquin. It's the 325 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: Quinn the Quinn, right, So that was a good idea. 326 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: So no, it's really they have lectures here. They have 327 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: these two big living rooms that people who belong can 328 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: work in during the day, so they have big couches, 329 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: and they have this a music studio where when you 330 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: become a member. I haven't yet done it, you get 331 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: a record made of whatever your favorite record is and 332 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: then you can go in and its soundproof and just 333 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: play it with your friends. And at the champagne bar 334 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: is dancing, so it's really something. And then there's rooms 335 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 1: for private functions and weddings and things like that, so 336 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: it's just a sense of whimsy. There's a closet you 337 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: can open and inside comes candy that comes floating down, 338 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: and you'll see when I take you inside, there's a 339 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: lot of stuff that just is fun. They made it 340 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: not at all the opposite of stuffy. I love it. 341 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: I can't wait. Well, it's the last question. So have 342 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: you been out doing speeches. Yes, A lot of the 343 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: lectures that were either put virtually or canceled in twenty 344 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one are now back, so I'm floating around again, 345 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: and it's great to be able to do a lot 346 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 1: of these organizations that I'm speaking to. It's the first 347 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: time they will have gotten together in two years. So 348 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: there's still nothing to equal that networking. I mean, virtual 349 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: lectures can work. Maybe you can have even more people 350 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: watching than you would at a real lecture. But I'm 351 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 1: going to DC next week, and I went on this 352 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: lecture to Normandy, and then there's a whole bunch of 353 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: them in the fall, and I'm really glad they're back. 354 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: I enjoy meeting people from different trade associations, different businesses 355 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: or educational associations or colleges, and each time you're in 356 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 1: a different place and you just are learning something about 357 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: whatever group it is you're with. Well, we did that 358 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 1: last episode six, taken a walk. You had just started 359 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: going back and you were talking about the electricity. Did 360 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 1: you feel that's exactly right? Has it really elevated even 361 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: further the electricity? Yeah, I think so. I think I 362 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: think people are less nervous now, rightly or wrongly, and 363 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 1: there's a sense that they feel a sense of life returning. 364 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: And part of it is to have these meetings where 365 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: they're meeting their fellow doctors or lawyers or anesthesiologists or 366 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: whoever it is I'm talking to, and then they'll have 367 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of workshops and then I'm talking about 368 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: leadership or entertaining them hopefully a long way. Oh, I'm 369 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: sure you're doing both. Thank you, I know you. I 370 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: know you are doing both. And it's so great to 371 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: see you. And thanks for oh YouTube buzz, it's been 372 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: glad we could do that. It's a perfect night for this. 373 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: Look at this. We could be in the nineteenth century here, 374 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: just there'd be horses coming down the street right now 375 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: instead of instead of cars. I love it. Thanks story, 376 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: so you're very welcome. Thank you you too. Taking a 377 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: Walk with Buzznight is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or 378 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.