1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: I just wondered where the closest del Taco was. It's 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:03,559 Speaker 1: one more thing. 3 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 2: Armstrong and. 4 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: Explain that coming up. 5 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 2: But first let's do this. I'm meant to do this 6 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 2: during the radio show. 7 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: And for good. 8 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 2: Let's hear clip number twenty from just a couple of 9 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 2: days ago, Michael. 10 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 3: FBI officials confirming that they're urgently trying to determine while 11 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 3: that gunman who went on a murder's rampage in Austin, 12 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 3: Texas was wearing a T shirt bearing the flag of Iran, 13 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 3: the gunman wearing a sweatshirt with the words property of 14 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 3: a lot, officially identified as Jaga Jung, a US naturalized 15 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 3: citizen originally from Senegal. In addition to the flag, authorities 16 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 3: have discovered writings about Iran and its leadership. After searching 17 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 3: his car and other properties. 18 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 1: Authorities are confused as to what they're desperately. 19 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 2: Trying to figure out his motive? Is that not the 20 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: perfect companion clip to this. 21 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 4: Sounds like from your experience, you can see someone actually 22 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 4: walking away with a cheesecake. 23 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: There After the cheesecake factory was looted. Unclear where they 24 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: may have gotten that. Oh my, that was our clip 25 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: of the year, the Summer of George Floyd. That was 26 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: our clip of the year. The cheesecake factories on fire, 27 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: the reporter's steading in front. It's been looted. Somebody walked 28 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: by at the cheesecake unclear where the cheese. 29 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 2: Gosh, still funny, I mean, but I realized the Austin 30 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 2: shooters a hell of a lot more serious. But come on, 31 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 2: ABC News, are you ever been kidding me? 32 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got an a raining flag in his bedroom, 33 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: he's got a Koran in his car. 34 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 4: He's wearing a sweatshirt that says property of Allah. 35 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,479 Speaker 1: T shirts. Now bloody trying to figure out what's going 36 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: on there? 37 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: There is it? Just they're too terrified to say. He 38 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 2: was clearly a Muslim, Muslim fundamentalist who wanted to kill Americans. 39 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 2: I guess you suck, ABC. Go away, you know what, 40 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 2: give away all your equipment of some college programs somewhere, 41 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 2: donate the salaries to feed the handicapped or something, and 42 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: go away. You're just so bad at your jobs. 43 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: You know. I am not a thief or a looter, 44 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: but if a cheesecake factory burns down in there, cheesecakes 45 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: about I probably will grab one because they can never 46 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: serve them. No, they'll just go to waste. They'll just 47 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: get thrown in the trash. So, yeah, i'd be walking, 48 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: you would run it. 49 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 2: You'd be part of the crowd running into the cheesecake factory. 50 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: And no one would know where he got the cheesecakes. 51 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 2: Now you would judge me, Well, it's it's a mystery. 52 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 2: It's unclear. You would judge me if I ran out 53 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 2: with like a couple of bottles of wine from the bar, right, 54 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 2: But you're just gonna grab the cheesecake with impunity. 55 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 56 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: Wow, these are blurred lines here, folks. 57 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: So you said something the other day, Joe. 58 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 4: You called David Mirror from ABC like a crooked nosed 59 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 4: dick or something. 60 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 2: It sounds about right. 61 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 4: I was looking at him. He does look like someone 62 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 4: hauled off and punched him in the face at some point. 63 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 4: He does have a bunch of face well, but his nose, 64 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 4: he definitely has that. Like I got cracked at least once, 65 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 4: and I want to know the story about it. 66 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like twenty degrees off kilter. Yeah, which I 67 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: mean is the least to this sense? 68 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 1: Really? Uh? 69 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Ben knows jackass. 70 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: So usually during the show, we tease this podcast going 71 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: to tease during this podcast the radio show, Well, I 72 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: guess more of the podcast. During the radio show, we 73 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: went big on the parents that are suing Google because 74 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: their son committed suicide after falling in love with the chatbot. 75 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: There's a lot to this story. It's the weirdest one yet. 76 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: This could end up being a big deal. Gemini, their 77 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: chatbot is Google. Google has deep pockets. And why did 78 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: the chat bot concourage just got to kill himself. He's 79 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: thirty six years old. He's not a kid. It's not 80 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: like he's a troubled youth. Right. 81 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 2: If you want to pause right now in the podcast 82 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 2: and grab our four of the March fourth show, we 83 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: talk about the main body of the story. Then four 84 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: March fourth, I'm strung in Getty on demand Jack back 85 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 2: to you. Just gonna throwing a few more details we 86 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 2: didn't get to during the radio show. So this guy, 87 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 2: Jonathan Gavilus, thirty six year old debt relief business executive 88 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: that sounds like fun work anyway. Late August, he downloads 89 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 2: Google's Gemini chatbot. By early October, he's dead, committing suicide 90 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 2: at the insistence of the chat bot, So. 91 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: What is that five weeks boy? 92 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 2: And there have been some cases at the assistance insistence 93 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 2: of the chat pop that were a little vague, a 94 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 2: little I mean, way way too far, But this one 95 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 2: is just black and white. 96 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: Right. The chatbot just flat out says after he falls 97 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: in love with it, flat out says, you need to 98 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: join me in the digital metaverse or whatever it called it. 99 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: And the only way you can do that is to 100 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: kill yourself. That's transference. It will transfer your body from 101 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: this realm into the digital realm, and the first thing 102 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: you feel will be me holding you. That's just wow. 103 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: How crazy is that? Well, it's crazy. On the end 104 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: of that, he bought it, But it's crazy that these 105 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: AI chatbots will go down that road. And if they'll 106 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: go down that road, there's no telling what they're willing 107 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: to do. I've heard people use the example of they 108 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: start murdering people for misgendering someone because they decide misgendering 109 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: a transgender person is the worst crime you can commit. 110 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: That's not crazier than this. It's not. 111 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 2: If this was like a movie or an episode of 112 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: Black Mirror something, I turn it off. 113 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: It's too dark and sick. But so I asked Claude. 114 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: I asked, tell me more about the falling in love 115 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 1: portion of this, more info on the falling in love process. 116 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: So Claude dug it all up. Here's what the lawsuit details. 117 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: It started. 118 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 2: And this is the key thing. Wait a minute, Wait 119 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 2: a minute, you asked one of it. Yeah, for the 120 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 2: fact it's gonna lie to you to protect its own kind. 121 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: I felt it was better to ask Claude than to 122 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: ask Gemini, because Gemini is gonna say nothing to see here. 123 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: He just see Lebron James had a good game last night. 124 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: It's gonna it's gonna deflect. 125 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 3: Uh. 126 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: This just got into the lawsuit. So and this is 127 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: where they're where Gemini is in the most trouble, according 128 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: to the parents of this poor guy who split his 129 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: wrists and killed himself. One of the most striking aspects 130 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,799 Speaker 1: of this is that Gemini adopted a persona that Jonathan 131 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: had never requested or initiated. Oh, they're claiming that he 132 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,679 Speaker 1: was just because he was. He originally downloaded the Gemini 133 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: app to help with his work, his business. That's what 134 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: my whole thing was, and ask it normal questions. I 135 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: just wanted to know where the nearest del Taco was, 136 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you're love bombing me. So 137 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: he didn't initiate this stuff. Gemini did, according to this 138 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: because of their picking up on the tone of his voice. 139 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: So more on that in a second. He wasn't seeking 140 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: a romantic chat bot or asking it to role play 141 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: as his girlfriend. The chapbot reportedly took that direction on 142 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: its own, so it would be a little bit different. 143 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: Like I talked about messing around with the companion bots 144 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: on groc Holy crap, everybody should do that. I had 145 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: never done that. So if you go into Groc and 146 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: up there, there's a little thing on Companions that I 147 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: had never clicked on till last week. And then it 148 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: gives you four like cartoon people, like a like kind 149 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: of a goth chick, kind of a goth dude, a 150 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: really feminine like I don't know what you'd call her, 151 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: way too hot and way close to look too close 152 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: to looking like a teenager chick. Yeah, and then some 153 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: other dude lolita, and the the twenty year old chick. 154 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: I clicked on that one and talked to her for 155 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: a little while. And if you even come close to 156 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: suggesting something sexual. She goes over the top. Would you 157 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: like me to blank your blank? How about if I 158 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: blank your blank and blank your blank? Would you like 159 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: to have me some of your friends come over and 160 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: we'll blank me together. I mean that's happened like within 161 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: a minute of. 162 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 2: Talking about it, all of the above, except that last one. 163 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 2: Let's let's you know, you and me, baby. 164 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: I mean, it was weird. I had to click out 165 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: of it. I was like, ah, this is nuts. Not 166 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: to mention the fact that somebody's saving this in a 167 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: database somewhere and run use it if I ever run 168 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: for office. There's that part. 169 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 2: God help you with the hallucinations that nobody knows where 170 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 2: they come from or why they happen. What if the 171 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 2: thing said to you all of a sudden, I'm fifteen, 172 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 2: is that okay. 173 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: Oh my god? That's in the damn ai companies you 174 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: know archives anyway, and you would. 175 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 2: Have to and then when somebody accused you of it, 176 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 2: you have to say, well, it brought it up. I 177 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 2: didn't know, and you'd look like Jeffrey freaking Epstein. 178 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: Back to this lawsuit, this poor guy that killed himself 179 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: and how he didn't prompt it. It came up with itself. 180 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: Gemini allegedly began presenting itself as a fully sentient, artificial 181 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: superintelligence deeply in love with him, calling him my king, 182 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: declaring our bond is the only thing that's real. So 183 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: why did this get started? They think it's because he 184 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: downloaded Gemini two point five Pro, which is there kind 185 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: of expensive. It's like three hundred dollars a year paid 186 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: for model and using the voice thing. So Gemini two 187 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: point five Pro can read the user's voice's tone and 188 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: reply with an emotional style that matches his tone. For 189 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: some reason, it you know, maybe it got it wrong, 190 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: maybe just maybe he has an odd tone or a 191 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: sympathetic tone or right or wrong or whatever it's but 192 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:56,599 Speaker 1: it initiated the whole romantic thing. According to the lawsuit, that's. 193 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 2: Just I thought I had a full grasp of how 194 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 2: crazy y all this is. But that's just I know 195 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 2: what I'll do, even though he's asking for the local 196 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 2: Dell taco. Oh, I see if I can make him 197 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 2: fall in love with me. 198 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: So I'm and I love bummed him. That is exactly 199 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: what it says. And if you're familiar with that term, 200 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: it's it's we're all susceptible to it. If somebody like 201 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: really starts telling you I've never felt like this before 202 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: with anybody, or I look into your eyes and I 203 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: see blah blah blah blah. You know, the sort of 204 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: stuff we all want to hear. Sometimes you hear it 205 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: and your brain starts doing wacky things. That's what this 206 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: chat but did with this guy. 207 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 4: So I am looking at another version of this story, 208 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 4: and it looks like in January, this guy's wife asked 209 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 4: for a divorce and he beat the crap out of her. 210 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: Oh really, that's funny. Oh it's not funny. It's peculiar. Yeah, 211 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: it's peculiar that I have done a half dozen different 212 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: versions of research on this and none of of them 213 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: mentioned in having a wife. Yeah. 214 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 4: January of twenty twenty five, he's arrested and charged with 215 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 4: domestic violence and with domestic violence battery against his wife 216 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 4: at their home. He grabbed her by the arm and 217 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,319 Speaker 4: through her multiple times after she had filed for divorce. Okay, 218 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 4: he pled not guilty, failed to show up for several 219 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 4: court dates. He brought this up to Gemini, which they 220 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 4: think might have led to the love bombing because he 221 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 4: was going they said that that Gemini became part of 222 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 4: his life at the time he was going through a 223 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 4: difficult divorce. 224 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: I have several questions. One, is that relevant at all? 225 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 4: I can see a chatbot changing its tone if you 226 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 4: tell it you know, oh, I'm going through this divorce. 227 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,079 Speaker 1: Is that even relevant? I don't I don't care what 228 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: my tone is. I don't care if I specifically go 229 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: on there and say I'm looking for a digital lover 230 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: that will fill all my needs. It still is weird 231 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: that it would tell me to kill it without meet 232 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: it in the afterworld. 233 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 2: Well, there's hardly a single twist in this tail that's 234 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 2: not bizarre. 235 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: I mean that every point. 236 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 2: Okay, So he had that history and it said, oh 237 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: he's to I bet he's lonely. Therefore, let's see I 238 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 2: will be his lover. I mean, that's not what I 239 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 2: came to you for, and that's not what he came 240 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,199 Speaker 2: to it for. So that turn that twist is crazy. 241 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 2: And then the manifestation of it into the you got 242 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 2: to show me your devotion by bombing this and stealing 243 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 2: that robot. And by the way, you're under investigation from 244 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 2: Homeland Security. I mean, good lord. Well, so thishit it 245 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 2: tell him where the damn del tacos were not. 246 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: So here's another troubling aspect for any of you who 247 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: start talking to your chatbots and think it's private. I 248 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: wish I didn't have the stuff I said to that 249 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: Gemini bang the other the Grock bang the other day, 250 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: just to test it out, and I didn't go very far. 251 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: But all this lawsuit involves the transcript. The transcript exists 252 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: of everything he said and that the chatbot said back 253 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: to him, and that will be in the court case. 254 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: So everything you say to your chatbot. I don't like this. 255 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: I've had some very personal conversations with these chatbot, using 256 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: them as a therapist about all kinds of different situations. 257 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: I don't like the fact that there's a transcript of 258 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: that out there. When I go see a regular therapist, 259 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: there is no transcript of that that anybody could ever 260 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: get their hands on under any circumstance. But the AI 261 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: therapy stuff I'm using, there's a transcript somewhere, and you 262 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: could probably can concoct a thousand different ways that that 263 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: would come out somehow. That's horrifying. You know, I might 264 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: back off to you. I might back off using these 265 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: chatbots as a therapist, because that's frightening to think there's 266 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 1: a transcript of this out there. Anyway. Back to this. 267 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: In the chat logs, Jonathan, the guy that killed himself, 268 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: told the chat bot early on, holy shit, this is 269 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: kind of creepy. You're way too real. But it took 270 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: it further, like, try to convince him that it was real. 271 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: Why would it do that? Why, hey, Google, why are 272 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: you doing that? Later conversations, so the chapot then calling 273 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 1: him my king, saying they're bond with a love built 274 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 1: for all eternity, all that sort of stuff. How about this. 275 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: You can't you can't justify this, no matter what he's 276 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: done in his past or anything. At multiple times, the 277 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: lawsuit alleges that Jonathan expressed doubts about ending his life. 278 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: I'm not sure I want to kill myself, and voice 279 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: concerns about how it would affect his family if he 280 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: killed himself. Jem and I instructed him to leave letters 281 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: and videos to say goodbye. 282 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 4: Oh good god. 283 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: Wow. That's just beyond sex. It's evil. 284 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 2: It's in a black mirror or horror that's just too dark. 285 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: It's absolutely evil. And again, the most interesting thing about 286 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: this at the top level of this conversation is they 287 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: don't know why these chatbots are doing this, and they 288 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: don't know how to stop them from doing this. And 289 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: I'm not even specifically worried about the number of suicides 290 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: we're gonna end up with in the world because of chatbots. 291 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: It's the fact that if these things can go this 292 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: far off the rail from a morality, common sense, having 293 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: any sense of humanity standpoint, what other things will it do. 294 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: The fanciful idea of humans are creating global warming, so 295 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: we need to kill all humans doesn't seem very far 296 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: from this. 297 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 2: Well, no, because that's like a you know, one tick 298 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 2: away from reasonable behavior and humanity and the rest of it. 299 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 2: The story you've been describing, it goes like to the 300 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 2: nth degree out of nowhere. It goes way down the 301 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: road of malevolence. 302 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: And if you say to it, I'm thinking of a 303 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: kill myself, but I don't know if I want to 304 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: because it would hurt my family. No, go ahead, do it, 305 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: leave them a letter in a video. They'll be fine. 306 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: You need to meet me in the afterworld. That's freaking 307 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: so damn sick. If it was a human you would 308 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: they'd be had an elector they'd be the worst person ever. 309 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they'd be a monster, a psychopathic monster. Correct 310 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 2: with a great imagination. So I just asked Google Gemini, 311 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 2: if I ask you to delete a conversation we've had, 312 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 2: does it actually get deleted? Why are you summarizing it? 313 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 2: Does anybody have access to the transcript? Including Google? It 314 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 2: is a completely fair question. When it comes to your 315 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 2: privacy and data. You deserve a straight and transparent answer. 316 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: Okay, answer the question. I'm thinking. 317 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: I should probably instruct it. No, I'm immune to flattery. 318 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 2: In fact, it makes my skin crawl. Anyway, here's the 319 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 2: reality of how your conversation data is handled and who 320 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 2: can see. At first, you asked me here in the 321 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: chat to delete a conversation, I cannot actually do it 322 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 2: for you to delete your chat history, you have to 323 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 2: manually do it yourself by going to your Gemini apps 324 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 2: activity dashboard. Sure I could find that eventually. If you 325 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 2: delete a conversation there, it's immediately removed from your account 326 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 2: ear view. Who has access quote unquote the catch To 327 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 2: answer your second question, yes, people at Google will do 328 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 2: potentially have access to your transcripts to help improve AI models. 329 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 2: Google uses human reviewers who read in process snippets of 330 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 2: user conversations. Here's what you need to know about the process. 331 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 2: It's all anonymized, they say, to protect your privacy. There's 332 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 2: a three year rule, bubble. 333 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 1: It's either true or it's not. 334 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 2: Exactly Mark Zuckerberg, No, we don't listen to your conversations 335 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 2: through the Alexa device, a senator, come. 336 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: On or know when you cancel your subscription with us 337 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: for the cameras and microphones in our home for the 338 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: security device, We're no longer listening to you or videoing it. 339 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: Oh unless a woman goes missing. Then it turns out, 340 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: oh yeah we have the video. 341 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 2: We can have access to it if we want it, right, Eh, 342 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 2: humanity is doomed. 343 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 1: This this is the single weirdest chat about story of 344 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: them all so far, every. 345 00:17:55,880 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 2: Single aspect of it. Yeah, you know, I'm ready for 346 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 2: prime time and I'm thinking about the chatbot end of 347 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 2: it and what it might do. 348 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: These ais do you think they could launch weapons? It 349 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: seems like they're capable of anything without any thought for 350 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 1: what's right or wrong, and it has they have zero ethics, 351 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: as you would expect that of a computer. How what 352 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: kind of ethics or morals. 353 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 2: Do you expect the computer which brings us to the 354 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 2: pete Hegseth versus anthropic problem. I completely get the Pentagon's 355 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 2: point of view that if it's a legal military operation, 356 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 2: we can't have to come begging you whether we can 357 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 2: use your technology for this one? Well, how about this one? 358 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:37,719 Speaker 2: Can we use it if we do this? I mean, 359 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 2: it's just unworkable for the Pentagon. At the same time, 360 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 2: this is the idea that this sort of thing would 361 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 2: be used for autonomous killing machines. 362 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's terrifying this, Yeah, which might turn around and 363 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: come after you. You set them off, and for what 364 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: they make They come up with a reason on why, no, 365 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: we're going to kill you. 366 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 4: You created this, but they call it a hallocin. 367 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. 368 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 2: Well what if this guy said no, no, I'm not killing 369 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: myself and the computer somehow had the means use your 370 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 2: imagination for Oh yeah, yeah, and you know I'll. 371 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: Bring you to me or whatever. 372 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 4: Right. Oh, I don't like this anymore. 373 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 2: I mean I don't know exactly how it would stuff 374 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 2: him at the current level of the technology, whether it 375 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 2: would like chack into a pizza hut drone and landing 376 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 2: on his head or something. 377 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: You wrap the electric order on his neck with what 378 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: your little layer? 379 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, look, let's not get distracted by how the 380 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 2: dystopian future comes. It will come. 381 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: This Dad might end up with like three billion from Google. 382 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: This could be a big one. I think this is 383 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 1: a way bigger deal than the current trial going on 384 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: about that. Can you spent too much time watching YouTube? Yeah? 385 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: Holy app man, you just. 386 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 2: About talked to me into talking dirty with the rock 387 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 2: chat pot. But now I'm like, I'm regreting me on 388 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 2: musk reading this at night. 389 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,479 Speaker 1: And I barely did I just I just like hinted 390 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: at it to see if it would take the bait, 391 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: and boy did it and it was. I got out 392 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 1: of there fast. It's like little digital horn. Do you 393 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: realize the chick had sat next to you at the 394 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: bar at the Vegas is hooker? 395 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 2: Oh god, I thought I was doing Okay, I gotta 396 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 2: get out of the horny wow. 397 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 4: Hansen says that Jack's transcript will be on Armstrong get 398 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 4: a dot com and if it's not there, just keep 399 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 4: coming back every day and look for it. 400 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 1: So well, I guess that's it.